Can Public Transit Beat Uber?
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
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Can LA Transit operate an Uber-like service that makes transit better, unlike Uber, which undermines transit?
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Why are people choosing uber over public transit? How much does one of those Sprinter Vans cost equipped as is,70-80k? What does a rider get paid,20-25/hr? You are collecting 1 dollar per fare, does that even cover the gas costs, let alone the maintenance, or the driver, on top of the cost of the vehicle. It seems like a introductory rate that will need to go up to make sense, if it becomes more popular that means costs will go up even more.
@@emineo3252 Depending on where you live, you could spend an hour on the bus, vs. 10-15 minutes on an Uber. You might try watching the video again.
Done!
I did take the survey
@@emineo3252 this ONE system is CHEAPER then MOST transit bus fares so there is something going on
but the transit VS Uber is the same as the "old" transit VS TAXI time VS money-convenience uber/Taxi is way quicker and available 24 HOURS a day WITH a car and a TRUNK to put luggage / shopping in VS a transit that is MUCH CHEAPER
I believe both services complement each other and IF one is cannibalizing the other there is a service issue to be dealt with
Sorry about the misleading Uber/Subway graph. I wanted to show that Subway ridership declined by the same amount as rideshare rides increased, but it looks like there are only 60k Subway users! I'll do better next time!
Thanks for the clarification, I immediately was suspicious of that statistic… makes everything more credible when you apologize and correct the record. Love your channel
You should pin this comment, the more graph-oriented of us are really picky about this sort of thing! But great to see that you explained it! Kudos!
Yeah I noticed that. What are the real subway ridership figures then?
Stop fucking up
You mentioned the effect of ride sharing on transit ridership, is there any data on when a bike/scooter sharing service starts operations in a city, what impact that has? Those seem to be incredibly popular options for people taking a short trip around a city. They also reduce traffic and would seem to reduce pollution by virtue of their electric drive systems.
Microbus services like this (except lower tech) have been really common in exurban, rural and underserved areas in Europe for decades and really helped people get to cities if they didn't drive, especially in rural Eastern Europe before cars became super common
So true!
It''s really hard to understand why in america there is no such option as a standard route van lines.
Microbus would be perfect in exurban and rural America to get to school, malls, offices factories and warehouses.
@@bellairefondren7389 exactly! Imagine the amount of traffic could be saved in areas where bus lines would be difficult to introduce
It's not exactly the same thing tbh. This is still a ride hailing service which picks you up based on your phone's location.
We have a similar app in Germany called MOIA from VW and it has nothing to do with those microbuses in Kyiv I've been in...
@@almerindaromeira8352 it's a more flexible and high tech solution, which makes sense given the difference in time and wealth, but it fills the exact same gap in public transportation service
The last time I've seen an uber ride cost below $10 was like 5 years ago, and even then that price point was becoming a rarity. Nowadays, where I live, I think it's more like $20 minimum, up to $70 or $80 under certain conditions. cheap transit authority-run alternative wins hands down, idc if the trip takes slightly longer
It seems like they used low fares to get their foot in the door and then once their competition diminished they took advantage and raised to their rates
I saw Uber rides below $10 in Puerto Rico which was way cheaper then Taxi rides when I went there a few weeks ago
I don't know how it is today, but just before Corona Uber still made billions of losses. I guess they now think (or have to try because investors are demanding) that they have enough market to push through prices.
@@JAG214 yeah maybe after they put more taxes out of business then Uber will raise its rates, I’m guessing.
@@Strideo1 Yup, it's the Walmart/Amazon business model - use a big pile of cash to absorb losses & drive the competition out of business, then jack up prices when you're the only game in town.
I was thinking about this recently. I think it’s a good way to connect far-flung suburbs with urban centers and downtowns, even if there’s some kinks to be worked out. One feature it would need to have is late night service, at least on weekends when people are out and about. Hope more cities adopt this, I would love to have something like it in the Phoenix area.
Just read about the Metro micro on their website. Service hour till 10pm is still a bit too short, but that's a good start anyway
@@chungonion 10pm is probably fine on weekdays, but on weekends, I would think it should be as late as 3 or 4am. Maybe even make it 24 hours on weekends, depending on the area.
a lot of us uber drivers are night owls, so I doubt there's a shortage of labor there. perhaps an issue of safety/insurance/compensation etc
It also could be important to ensure it stays open as late as the bars on weekends. Simply put drunk driving is bad, so giving people ways to get to bars and home where someone else drives them is preferable.
Even if it isn't directly profitable i would imagine the slight boost to bar patronage and reduction in drunk driving related "accidents" would certainly pay for itself.
@@Westlander857 I hope it will be expanded from time to time =]
it's weird to me how car centric America is, to the point that the image of public transport is still a car, and not trains. trains are more resource and thus cost efficient. just as we are seeing with solar being more expensive upfront but less expensive over it's life time, this is true of trains, and doubly so for electric trains.
American politicians are allergic to thinking ahead
@@Ry_TSG *Politicians FTFY while american stupidity has a certain unique flavor, we aren't the only game in town. that being said, many are freaking out right now, which isn't conducive to long term planning. but due to obstinance and pure ideology, they are trying to get away with doing the bare minimum, and climate change just isn't something that accepts that. things will continue to get worse due to politician incrementalism...... which then gets scapegoated into demonizing the "Lefty Jewish woke mob" (god even saying that makes me hurl) that being said, we do have the technology, and the politics is starting to break, albeit slowly. we need to do everything possible to make sure incrementalism is disfavored, for not only our survival, but for the survival of the planet.
They're just using existing infrastructure, besides trams would be a better option for a road dominated heccscape like the US.
@@iqbalindaryono8984 trams would be alright as a transitional feature, yes. they are not being built though, BRT's are, the more expensive option. in fact, right outside my window they are building a BRT, the more expensive option. it's a feature, not a bug, as the more expensive option is easier to siphon large contracts from the government, to private propertied hands, rather than users.
@@ethanstump BRTs are very expensive, but BRT lites should be relatively affordable. My local BRT lite line was very successful, and should work in the US as well.
By BRT lite I literally just mean a bus route with a 5 min frequency and a painted bus lane.
(I'm from Australia and assuming the US is similar)
As someone who lives in LA, I have a love/hate relationship with Metro Micro. When it works, it really is a great option. But there have been many times when my ride doesn't show or comes so late that I can't make it to my destination on time or connect with the bus/train that I need, forcing me to either take an Uber or drive. It doesn't matter if I book my ride an hour out or 3 days out too.
LA Metro does have a significant driver shortage, and I think they do overbook the Micros. It's a great idea, but the execution hasn't been great. I'm jealous that you were able to get something within 30 minutes of when you booked it, as often I have to book it hours in advance just to have a chance.
One advantage to the contractor (or any revenue share) model is that the drivers only get paid if they show up. I'm guessing nobody lost money when your ride didn't show up.
In many parts of the world they essentially work as a smaller capacity version of buses with fixed routes and pretty reliable schedules. In my city Jakarta they are also completely free to ride!
@@junirenjana same in San Salvador, but you should guess the schedules and pay a higher fare than a large bus
@@junirenjana jaklingko?
@@spacetoast7783 I dunno, they're paid by the transit authority I thought (unless I totally misread that part of the video), meaning they're getting a salary simply by being in the van between those hours they signed up for.
Transit vehicles similar size like this are quite common in other parts of the world. It's good that LA is making modern versions of those minivans you would find in developing countries. For commuters, this could've been a great money saving solution for transit's last mile problem.
Those are all over in Europe
its also all over Indonesia
IDK about the rest of Canada but in Quebec cities/regions that can't support public transit nor taxi will have a taxibus. Like a bus service there are designated spots you have to wait and like a taxi you need to call them to be picked up. For faster service you need to call an hour or so before you need to be picked up, especially in more rural area.
@@Nico-dt5hu angkot?
This just seems way too expensive. Only charging $1 per rider, paying drivers very well, and it’s slow? It’s highly inefficient and very expensive for the tax payer. This seems like it’s only good as a public service for smaller scale perhaps remote areas with no bus or train options or for special needs people.
6:50 At the end of the day, this is a failure mostly caused by US transportation planners that have been forcing sprawl and mostly building roads and highways for the past sixty years.
Or more specifically, US transportation planning law and procedure. It leaves the planners with very few tools, and it sets up a situation that transfers wealth from the rest of the economy to property developers by making developments cheap to build but highly expensive and rather dysfunctional to use, service and maintain. Euclidian zoning in particular is a nightmare, as the exclusive categories really need to go in order for meaningful reform including mixed land use to have a chance.
I would love to have this in Seattle. Many of my trips in the city are short distances, but require one or even two changes - and those changes are often busses with 20 or 30 minute frequencies. That's a no-go!
For example, I'm about 20-40 minutes via bus on average away from a light rail stop, which has wonderful grade-separated 4 minute service to downtown. It's a 7 minute drive to the same stop!
Using this service, I could cut across the city a lot easier, or get from my house to major bus or light rail hubs quickly.
Completely agree. In Seattle, buses just aren’t a viable option for the vast majority of my trips - they take too long and are too complex. In the absence of just increasing routes and frequency, a service like this would be nice
Seattle has this in the southern parts of the city and parts of Tukwila and Renton, it's called Via to Transit. I wish they'd expand the area though
In the Netherlands there would definitely be a bicycle involved somewhere in your journey. A fast ebike/electric moped might be more feasible in the US?
@@beetooex I wish! I'd love to ride a bike, but I feel extremely unsafe riding on the road. Sadly, even in a city like Seattle, which has relatively good biking infrastructure compared to the rest of the US, even for a fit guy like me, it's just too anxiety inducing and unsafe.
This exists in Kent as Pingo to Transit. It's super convenient and just wish it would go beyond 7pm and, well, to rest of King Metro
Salt Lake City is also trailing a ride share program. It only serves a few small areas so it’s not been useful to me but it’s nice that it’s there and hopefully they can expand its area to be a true Last mile vehicle when TRAX, a bus or Frontrunner can’t take you there
We have it up here in the Boise suburbs. Promotion of the service is a huge difficulty. I would say Less than %0.05 of the population even knows it exists. City leaders don't even know it exists. Another big difficulty is that it doesn't get you from the suburbs to Boise. So in most cases, it is pointless.
Austin has vans too in some areas/towns
I actually think ride sharing works far better as a public service. That it's mainly to cut down conjestion and emmissions and that it's an app that's completely free of charge and voluntary with no pay.
Full-time Chicago uber driver and underserved west-side resident here:
YO CTA, GET ON THIS. I would MUCH rather drive for the City and cover all of the areas that aren't covered by rail (or are too dangerous to wait on corners at night too long for buses)
As a Chicagoan this would be elite
But also they gotta start running more buses. It's ridiculous that sometimes you gotta wait over 20 minutes for a bus during the middle of the day. I do agree this would be good for covering some of the gaps in the rail system at least until more infrastructure can be built.
But these networks typically only work 7am - 6pm. So if driving Uber is a side gig, it might not work.
If you want a full-time job with the CTA, I will bet they are hiring. Probably some part time work too.
Uber exploits labour from lower-income people, and heavily reduces transit ridership and frequency which the poorest people rely on most 😩
Really a double whammy to make poor people's lives worse
I find that hard to believe . How did uber reduce transit . Uber cost like 15 to 30 dollars average depending on where you want to go . Where as transit is really cheap .
@@chemicalfrankie1030 Did you not watch the fucking video?
No one on a low income takes an Uber, If you're poor you take the bus. Nobody on a low income can afford $9.00 per ride.
@@chemicalfrankie1030 It's not the poor people directly switching over to uber, it's the people who are slightly more economically mobile who would otherwise take the bus. Once those financially-stable people opt into paying more for the convenience factor of Uber and stop using transit services, ridership numbers decrease and transit frequency gets adjusted down.
I used to drive a vanpool service like this at my college and it was very very popular. I have no doubt it would be beneficial in urban suburbs where either transit lines have not extended out to yet or you need I direct link to a major brt/LRT
It was a lifesaver in my undergrad when bars were directly across the street from campus and I lived on the opposite side of campus.
I live in a college town of 100k and I think a service like metro micro would be perfect here. We have busses but they are very infrequent and under used. I feel like supplementing them with these smaller vans could be a great fit for a city of this size.
They work, but the service times can be very limited (no service after 6 or 7pm)
As a rideshare driver, thank you so much for including the question “do you like driving for Uber“ as an awkward question. I get that question every single day and I absolutely hate it. Until you mentioned that it was someone awkwardly trying to make small talk with a stranger, I always inferred that it was a really condescending question, as if they were incredulous that anyone could like such a lowbrow job or something. It never occurred to me until this moment that it was just people who have no idea how to talk to someone.
I use it as a chance to tell them how much Uber sucks and screws us over lol
I assume it is the "how is the weather?" type of question and ANSWER not required to be honest but a conversation starter being "trapped" in a confined space with a stranger
Haha yeah in my case it's definitely just a way of saying "I feel like the polite thing to do right now is make conversation but it's been overcast and 10C for months so I don't have anything to say about the weather".
than don’t work in Uber, lol
people are hilarious, hate their own decisions
@@redakteur3613 just out of curiosity, what is the purpose of that comment? Like, what kind of reactions/consequences would you expect it to cause?
Montgomery County, MD has a similar public transportation rideshare system - it's called Ride On Flex. Runs in select areas only though - Wheaton and Rockville. Works great but barely used.
"Group ride sharing" (like "Metro Micro") has a lot of potential. Say Sam wants to go from point A to point Z. Bill from point C to point X. A van that can pick up Sam from A, Bill from C, drop off Bill at X and Sam at Z...very efficient. Would love to see Uber innovate like this. Uber could also innovate by having more special needs/disabled/child seat options. As for the point about uber competing with transit...sometimes the opposite happens. I know somebody will actually take uber to/from the train station and for them Uber has solved the "last mile" problem with metro transit, which is a good thing.
Yeah, I also thought about an app like that.
I love this! Ever since taking one of these small busses/vans somewhere in the Italian Alps, I have never been able to stop thinking of how they could fit into more urban transportation. Big busses are good because they only require one driver and have a huge capacity but I often find that there are less than 13 passengers in a bus outside of peak hours and especially on longer routes through less dense areas. Using software to bridge the gap between user demand and rigid schedules is a great idea. Especially in a sprawling city like Los Angeles.
In hindsight, this is basically a more sophisticated version of the "Belbus" (literally "call-bus") that exists here in equally sprawling Flanders. It's also a sort of bus/taxi service run by the local transit agency but you have to book your trip at least one day in advance (this used to be done exclusively by phone, hence the name) and you can only travel between specially designated Belbus stops. Because of these limitations, it's mostly used for semi-regular and pre-planned trips, like going to the Sunday market, visiting a friend or going into town. I've never used it myself though, I should try it out someday!
I've tried to use Metro Micro exactly one time. I was running a bit late and realized I would miss my bus connection from the Orange Line (BRT with dedicated right-of-way, for those unfamiliar) to my destination (roughly 2 miles away) so I tried to call a Metro Micro from a few stops away so that it would arrive at roughly the same time as I did. It ended up arriving on the earlier side of its arrival window and I arrived later than expected because the Orange Line still doesn't have signal priority so I missed it. I ended up walking. This isn't really an indictment of Metro Micro in concept or in execution but I think it's telling that the same service improvements that would make Metro Micro more attractive to me would likely reduce the need for it in the first place.
why would it though?
This is amazing, this is the future & the price...this could be a legit alternative to many many people owning a car if it is rolled out city wide & and can serve an large populace (which would also cut down on transit time). My only questions are do they have cargo space for groceries & will they have some running at 2am when bars close?? These are the biggest downfalls of buses & other public transport. If people can't pick up & transport a weeks worth of groceries or get home after going out, they still need a car & the service won't replace personal car ownership-which is really what needs to happen in the long run.
Try to figure out the answers of your questions from what I have read
1) They might have extra cargo space, but I can't see that on the video
2) They operates till 10pm (generally) right now, but I think in the future the services will be expanded
Ideally you wouldn't need to carry a week worth of groceries because you would have a small grocery store within walking distance of your house that you stop at on the way home from somewhere else, maybe every 2-3 days
They could allocate a portion of space in the back of the van for large goods. such as groceries or luggage for travelers going to the train station or airport. For late night bar hopping, they are a very popular option in large college towns. My undergrad (Univ of Florida) had a free night shuttle service around campus called SNAP that ran from 6 pm - 3 am. Many students went to bars directly across the street from campus and used SNAP to get rides back to their dorms.
Public transportation is cool and should be encouraged, but owning a car will always mean freedom of movement, to carry whoever people you want, whatever cargo you want, whatever time of the day and to whatever destination that it's not served by any public transportation.
@@soundscape26 Do you realised you are saying two things that are contradicting to each other?
Holy crap, it costs ONE DOLLAR for a ride? That’s incredible, I heard the performance and was worried since it was definitely disappointing, but I thought a reasonable price could save it and you can’t get much better than 1 dollar. That’s a bargain.
LA metro IS $1.75 per ride per there website BUT WAS free during 2020 so maybe Metro is serious about "transit for everyone" and is trying to get this system to be known and experienced / people signed up
Yeah, but if you have to wait 40 minutes for a short ride, the Time=Money equation definitely comes into consideration.
It only takes you short distances though within individual cities and doesn't pick up at your address so you have to walk somewhere. It's definitely not worth more than a couple of dollars.
we had a service like it in berlin for the last couple years, called 'berlkönig'. sadly it has stopped because transit is heavily regulated in germany and it could only run as an "experimental service". the taxi companies complained that it would take away their customers.
i used it a few times when i had a leg injury or heavy baggage to move; it was more expensive than public transport, about the same speed (depending on route and surface traffic) but extremely convenient for getting almost door to door and with no need to change.
There was (is) one in Hamburg too. I hope that it didn't suffer the same fate
Edmonton Transit is rolling out Transit on Demand like this in select areas including mine. I haven't taken it yet but it seems like a great idea in lower density areas where conventional bus routes don't make much sense...
Winnipeg transit on request is a NEW service like this in 3 "zones" in Winnipeg
That sounds like a great service! It reminds me of the Collectivos in Peru, which took my family, myself and 15 schoolchildren to the remotest towns. I think it makes connecting rural areas more cost-effective.
What i recommend when using metro micro is that if you know you'll need to go somewhere later in the day/tomorrow, you should schedule your ride in advance. The metro micro will come on time, in my experience.
If you schedule a ride for ASAP, usually you will be waiting about 30mins for the ride to come.
It would have been cool if you had touched on the cost for operators to run municipal ridesharing. In Sacramento, for example, SacRT's microtransit service (smart ride) requires a $42 agency subsidy each time a passenger boards, compared to an $8-$16 subsidy on fixed bus routes, depending on route productivity.
Another thing to keep in mind is that some agencies (like SacRT) have used microtransit to strip any fixed service to communities underserved by transit. Route 24 in Sacramento used to serve communities like Orangevale and Fair Oaks, but now many of those neighborhoods have no feasible transit stop in walking distance with regular service. With the variable timeliness of these services, it makes it really difficult for people using transit to make it on time to school or work.
This THIS *THIS* ! As seemingly innocuous and innovative these services seem, they're often not deployed as an actual alternative to ridesharing, (at least here in San Antonio, where only the northeastern part of the city wasn't regularly served) but as a way to justify cutting routes in an era of severe budget shortfalls. I'm currently taking one of those routes now and it's so transparent in its intent, that when I told the two employees who were trying to shill the service on the empty bus about my perspective on the subject, they more or less just quietly agreed. It's already a four bus ride to get to that location. Now it's going to be three and hoping to God that I can figure this god-awful system out.
It's a race to the bottom with a marketing campaign that says, "How do you do, fellow transit commuters?" I'd rather pay the $30-$40 for a Lyft out of spite. I'm probably going to have to move there.
This sort of reminds me of my towns paratransit vans that will pick up disabled people around my town and take them directly to their destination like a taxi service
I actually used metro micro earlier this year and omg it is amazing the drivers are friendly and its super cheap and convenient
That’s such an American thing to call taxis "public transit". I was expecting a comparison of a real public transit system like the one Berlin has with Uber.
Anything Australia has with Uber,Ola,Didi,(Your bigger cities with things like Silver Service Taxi or Smart Car)are also personal transport but with a difference.
It is public transport
@@The_king567 Do you think it’s fair to title a video "Can Boats transport goods over the ocean?" and then only talk about toy boats, completely disregarding that real boats exist?
@@FlorianWendelborn yes
This is basically a more sophisticated version of the "Belbus" (literally "call-bus") that exists here in equally sprawling Flanders. It's also a sort of bus/taxi service run by the local transit agency but you have to book your trip at least one day in advance (this used to be done exclusively by phone, hence the name) and you can only travel between specially designated Belbus stops. Because of these limitations, it's mostly used for semi-regular and pre-planned trips, like going to the Sunday market, visiting a friend or going into town. I've never used it myself though, I should try it out someday!
My wife's flemish. It's mostly for old people.
As someone who lives in Pasadena, specifically within that round trip, this was pretty neat to watch. Should have taken the 686 or 180 bus, it would have been faster 😀
I live in a suburb north of Dallas, TX called Lewisville and we have the same thing as metro but it's called GoZone by Via. It's designed to replace the bus routes that stopped at the train station and it's good for the most part. My experience has been the exact same as yours. I unintentionally did a similar experience, when it was pique time, it was hard getting a ride within 15 min with GoZone but I got one with Uber within 5 min. If cities got their act together and managed to combine this service with bus, light rail and local attractions, they can put Uber out of business, but that's a big IF.
Glad to see this video, didn't know about metro micro. A little more bias seems to show in this video though. Uber et al have motivation to innovate (in good and bad ways) in order to make money, while public transit is MUCH slower to respond and adapt. While I agree with the conclusion, wish there was more attention given to the potential downsides of public run utilities as well.
Agreed but he clearly aimed to push the utopia narrative, can’t do that if one discusses LA transport present and past failures
My little city of Idaho Falls ID with a population of 65,000 just started a micro system like this. I see them all of over and constantly having passengers. Happy to see it’s being successful
Hey this has been around for a long time. It is called on demand bus service. I think it was run by a company called Via bus or something similar. Some towns in uk have adoped this.
Also it could be found in the Netherlands, however those services still requires pickup and dropoff points instead of just dropping off anywhere within the zone.
@@chungonion While it's less convenient, system wide benefits are pretty substantial. Saving a few minutes per passenger adds up to a lot of travel time saved.
@@Joesolo13 Yes, but I think what Metro Micro is doing good is that you can see the departure times on the app beforehand. Similar system in the UK and The Netherlands seems they only compute the routes on demand, and the down side for that is you need to call the app 30 mins in advance for that journey. As you can see from this video, the van arrives with 20 mins which is a good job.
We REALLY need this in bay area (eastbay, san jose, etc). Buses only run on the main streets. Supplementary car services can go into residential areas without any issue
I really liked the minibuses (dolmuş) in turkey, as they were privately ran and in the suburbs of Istanbul often came more often and were faster than busses. I can definitely see them being useful in the bay area
IndyGo here in Indianapolis recently debuted a similar service (IndyGo Connect) to serve a car-dependent neighborhoods on the southeast side of the city, where fixed route bus frequency is mostly hourly. Riders in this neighborhood can now access groceries, jobs, and a BRT line for just $1.75 (our standard fare).
As someone who worked in the micro-transit branch of a public transit company I really can't recommend micro-transit enough (especially as an alternative to things like Uber).
MetroMicro-like services make the most sense in rural/exurban areas, but downtown Pasadena is neither rural nor exurban.
Not only is the route very urban, there a quick Google search of the trip shown at 1:42 in the video reveals that there are numerous fixed-route bus options available to accomplish the same trip. And, simply hopping on whichever comes first would probably have gotten you there in far less time than MetroMicro, for the same $1 fare. In fact, it is even possible for a fixed-route bus to end up being faster than Uber if you get lucky and don't have to wait.
For a route like this, MetroMicro is completing with conventional transit, exactly the same as Uber does, but with a lower fare and worse product. Worse, the money to operate Metro Micro has to come from somewhere, and that somewhere is likely at the expense of making the regular old buses run more frequently. And, with only 1-2 passengers in a vehicle that is larger and more gas guzzling than the typical Uber vehicle, it's not clear that MetroMicro is any better than Uber in carbon emissions either.
Finally, worth nothing - the entire route shown is just 1.5 miles, short enough that in the time it took to wait for MetroMicro, you could have simply walked all the way home. Riding a bike also would have taken under 10 minutes - faster than a fixed-route bus, and probably as fast, if not faster than Uber, once accounting for the wait time for the Uber.
There are indeed some areas where a MetroMicro-like service may make sense, but in an area like shown in the video, the transit agency is simply throwing money away to compete with itself (and with walking and biking), not providing any significant amount of additional mobility.
I think they could, I hate the whole idea of Uber and I would much rather take a good public transit service for a reasonable price rather than Uber, especially since it rips you off on the price a lot. But where I live, the trains rip you off too as they’re privatised…
We have something similar in Jersey City, NJ. It’s called Via. It’s a private company but still partnered with the city and offers affordable $2 rides around the city. It’s been operating since February 2020 and it’s very popular
Both transit agencies in DFW Have micro transit options and they are phenominal for the last mile to a destination. I use them frequently since I was eager to replace my car for daily commute. So much more effective than Uber/Lyft if you can sacrifice a few minutes to save $10-15 each day
Glad to hear about GoLink working better as of late. I heard nothing but rides that never show up since the new bus system started. I haven’t used GoLink yet since I live near fixed bus routes.
@@saxmanb777 I work in las Colinas and use it to get to my office from the Beltline orange line station. Had one or two issues with it, but since DART covers Uber pool with GoPass, it’s a decent option
This is a great not just for cities but for towns and villages to be able to connect where there are infrequent/ no existing public transit routes
Do a video on walkable colleges and university transit please. I don’t think it’s a topic you’ve ever covered
I'm surprised he hasn't' convered this
One of these days! I live in a college town, so it would be easy to make.
A rideshare company called Gojek started collabroating with KAI Commuter, Jakarta's suburban rail operator. They added a feature that can both plan trips that mix rideshare with transit and buy QR-based tickets.
I was hoping you’d talk about using Uber or on demand service to use for that last mile. I often just take the train to the nearest stop and have to Uber the rest of the way. Many agencies are starting to partner with Uber/Lyft, but hate how they are doing business as a whole.
I think systems like Metro Micro and MARTA Reach are most effective at linking more places to a high-capacity transit system as well as operating night services when demand is lower and train lines are undergoing maintenance.
My city’s public transit agency just launched this style of service! It’s not a perfect system but with the drastic difference in price, I’ll definitely be trying it out.
I love micro, but just the idea right now. I live right between the current zones and I would love to take it to and from my school, which is in the zone. Can’t wait until they expand the service
Uber and Lyft don't care about what effects it has on traffic or their own drivers.
As long as the big men can live in their huge mansions and drink their €200 wine, it's all fine. Why would they care about the working rights of their drivers? Why would they care about the effects on the planet they cause?
It's literally so shady honestly, never got an Uber or Lyft and never will. I'm lucky public transport is so good in my country, so I won't leave that behind anytime soon
@@chemicalfrankie1030 They don't really have a choice, do they? With the current employment situations ://
@@myra0224 the opposite. They do have a choice. And they still prefer to be drivers. Again, is someone forcing them?
@@chemicalfrankie1030 Yes, there's literally not enough jobs to do and quality jobs in the US are very hard to find for people without a uni degree
My sister lives in TC, Michigan, and they have a similar system! She was telling me about it, and I thought it sounded so cool!
I’m always happy when a new City Beautiful video drops! 😄
I first learned rideshare services from Geoff Marshel's video, though that one focused more on fixed route buses for less used services in smaller towns instead of a taxi service like Uber within a big city. Even then, with how much public transit NA is lacking even within big cities, it certainly is better than nothing, not to mention they do help to established fixed route buses.
Is San Antonio Texas they launched VIA link which is the same thing basically , however I believe it’s faster and goes around the city with expanding spots to pickup. However the app kinda sucks
Via link pickups are mainly where there isn’t a bus route
I'd also recognized the Metro Micro app's interface as being practically identical to Via's used around here. It has sucked having any of a car arriving early then soon leaving (trying to time my arrival to waiting), or coming very, very late (had about 40+ minutes a few times).
@@MrPokeboy88 VIA developed the app that LA Metro uses and ran the pilot project in LA before LA Metro took over and expanded the service.
Metro Micro reminds me of TCaT - a Tulare County-wide transit service with small buses that connect Tulare County cities. Can’t wait for the Cross Valley Corridor train that will eventually connect to the Kings/Tulare HSR station!
If only there was a another mode of transportation that's practically free, very environmentally friendly and especially suited for short trips like these.
Free ? How ?
What if we designed this hypothetical mode of transportation run on two wheels so they don't take up much space.
@@drwalka10 I think they expect this mode of transportation to run on human energy and thus would be free
@@pavneet01 You could also build some with batteries to help with longer short trips and those who would have difficulty making it run by themselves. Oh, and headwinds. @^#!! headwinds.
@@Korina42 so basically a human power car that is only 2 wheels and FAR cheaper in price and "impact"
I think a mini metro WITH BIKE RACK and biking / "heavy" transit can all work together for different use cases I imagine the Metro micro SHOULD deliver you to the transit HUB and then transit takes over and a mini bus does the "last mile" IF main line transit does NOT and extends the TRANSIT system reach BEYOND biking range with LESS-then-Uber cost/impacts
I've always felt that there should be a "bus on demand" kind of thing. This system seems to be kinda what is needed, since it can pick up and drop off people on the way! The rise of apps and algorithms means that this kind of adhoc "transit" is finally feasible.
San Antonio’s VIA Metro has a new pilot program like the Metrobus called Via Link and it’s $1.30 a ride!
Yeah, and take a good hard look at the app and see which areas are actually covered. It's probably nowhere you want to go, unless you really want to go to the far south side to the -Toyota factory- Palo Alto College or the far northwest close to Helotes. It's just a way to justify cutting more routes in the far-flung parts of the city while offering nothing to anyone who wants to jump on it for a decent trip that isn't covered by the main lines directly. It's for the poor who can use a phone, which judging by the lack of people using the base VIA app for bus passes, is no one other than me and like five other people.
Would love to see the MTA do something like this in NYC especially for neighborhoods that are a bit of a transit desert like Flatlands or Maspeth.
Is it really fair to compare Uber when it's a company that's unustainably losing investor money and will need to recoup it at some point though?
That's why Metro Micro is the winner :D
In which case it would make sense to compare it to all the various companies. Lyft being one of ubers competitors
Spoiler: LA Metro also loses money
@@spacetoast7783 They don't lose money, they spend it, at a sustainable rate, to provide a public service to citizens. It's a big distinction.
@@squelchedotter In fiscal year 2019, Metro says it pulled in $250-$300 million in fares to cover $1.9 billion in operating costs. You're either wrong or you're saying Metro is lying.
As for time, I think you also have to figure the time of day. 8pm traffic would be different than later in the evening.
True! At least I tested both at roughly the same time.
I feel like a mandatory transfer to a bus/metro for longer rides (or higher fare if you dont trasfer) would make this even better.
I would "expect" the APP to route you through transit so that is an "automatic" and at the price "transfers" are more then acceptable
1:33 I like seeing the fire extinguisher. Uber and Lyft really drop the ball by not requiring drivers to have first aid kits, fire extinguishers, and triangles.
I think we should be calling out cities and towns that have the guts to replace public transit with Uber. Not everyone likes Uber, there are many ethical and human rights issues regards to Uber, and that Uber does absolutely nothing to solve traffic congestion or to reduce car dependency. Uber is not, and should never be considered the solution.
I'm looking at you, Innisfil, Ontario. Shame on your dependency on Uber.
I used to live in Chicago and was a regular CTA user. That system is killing itself by not doing anything about the antisocial riders. The Blue Line to the airport is a rolling homeless shelter, insane asylum, and public toilet all in one. The airport station smells like human urine. Visitors to the city are charged a 5 dollar premium fare to board at the airport while the homeless are allowed to switch trains at the end of the line and ride back inbound for nothing. I dare anyone-right now-to connect from the Blue Line to the Red Line at Jackson in the loop through the pedestrian tunnel and tell me if you felt safe. And if the law against smoking was being enforced.
Uber and Lyft, for a decade-long era that seems to be ending, finally brought cheap taxi-like transportation enabling riders to escape hell-hole transit systems like the CTA at an affordable price point. Now the prices are going up and the quality of the service is going down as the drivers are figuring out they’re being exploited. They never made money, at best they were just cashing out the value of their car as they put miles on it.
The value of taxi medallions is completely derived from artificial scarcity, and deserved to be destroyed. They were scamming us for decades. Please don't be irresponsible in trying to paint more affordable single-car transit as a bad thing, as rideshare is much less expensive in most cases to traditional taxis, even despite recent price raises and surge charges.
Uber/Lyft style rideshare IS a taxi service, the name is a misnomer. Taxi licenses are artificially scarce for good reason
Kansas City did a trial of a similar microtransit scheme and found that it cost them about $1000 per ride. It doesn't scale all that well either. If you get more riders, you have longer wait/travel times or have to pay for more vehicles and drivers. While there is a time and place for microtransit schemes like this, I fail to see why this is something actually being discussed in dense urban areas. It gives off the same feeling as a more high-tech version of a dial-a-ride service from the dark days of American transit.
That being said, there is something to be said in deviated fixed route bus service and using this tech for paratransit in urban areas. The only potential area I can see this actually being of use is in rural and very low density areas.
I see the use cases in outer suburbs and as a connector to the regional rail and having the mini-busses work a fixed route and deviate if empty to go to your pickup point "virtual bus stop" as Winnipeg on request calls it
"Can Public Transit Beat Uber?" Is this some sort of american joke that I'm too european to understand?
Please help us
One thing that wasn't touched on is that this micro metro service (which is similar to LAnow by the way, if you weren't familiar with it) can only be used for short-distances. So if want to go from Pasadena to Venice through Metro Micro, I can't.
This is done on purpose because the main purpose of Metro Micro I believe is to provide a last-mile connection to the metro, not to replace Uber. This isn't necessarily bad, but it does mean that, for larger distances, the metro service needs to be good enough that you're also not going to wait a long time for the next car and that you can get close-ish to your destination with it.
I live in LA and don't own a car, so I've used metro trains and even micro metro several time. So I can tell you that unfortunately this is not the case currently...
Which makes it mostly useless to me. And it doesn't pick up or drop off at your address so you have to walk. Useless for the grocery store then, nobody is doing that.
They have services like that here in Israel in the three largest cities (and ride sharing is illegal, so there's no Uber or Lyft). I've found that the service is often not entirely worth it, and a bus would have been about the same, but cheaper.
A bus costs ~$1.75 while the on demand transit costs anywhere from double to triple that, depending on demand. The on demand also on picks you up from bus stops, so if there isn't one that nearby it will still involve a lot of walking. I've used the service when I've had heavy items that would have involved a difficult walk from a farther stop if I had taken the bus (since that's where the bus line drops me off), and instead paying the premium for a ride that might take about the same time, but drop me off at the stop right next to my house that the lines from that area don't stop at.
It feels like it's meant to compete with taxis, but the service here is more the worst of both worlds - more expensive, less direct, still involves walking to/from a bus stop, involves potentially a long wait.
I wish it was better here, it would definitely be a good complimentary service to the rather decent bus service we get.
Meanwhile Uber is illegal in my home country of Denmark.
Also we have our own little Metro Micro equivalent in the form of Plustur and Flextur. Both of which are ridesharing options to compliment transit across almost all of Denmark. Both need to be booked at least 2 hours in advance though and can only be booked via the Journeyplanner app if no existing transit options shows up for that leg of the trip or that trip entirely. Plustur shows up if there's no convenient link from your address to the nearest bus stop or train station which may be too far to walk, when you have put in your time to travel, serving exclusively as a first and last mile option. Flextur however works on address to address routes, whole point A to B where existing transit may not be viable, but otherwise work the same way as Plustur.
The names Flextur and Plustur also literally mean "Flex ride", and "Plus ride"
My area’s microbus service is call-only, so besides the extra inconvenience, I never know where the bus is unless I call again. This means I have to be ready for the bus for the entire time it’s likely to arrive, so I’m often sitting outside for 30+ minutes.
It also stops fairly early, which practically means if I call later than 3:30pm, I likely won’t be getting a ride.
If I could take a scheduled bus route I would, but that route was canceled due to COVID and will only reopen “once demand for commute service returns” (so never).
metro micro seems like a brilliant idea, but i feel like a more fair comparison would be comparing it to uberpool
We have an "on demand" bus service in Rochester NY - very similar to metro micro. I've used it a few times. I've never taken an Uber.
For a while, I lived and worked such that I could take "on demand" to work. I LOVED the price, but scheduling seemed sketchy. Many times I couldn't get a ride so I took a bike or walked -- and i was always passed my many on-demand busses -- all with just one passenger in them. I was willing to go up to an hour early but it wasn't dependent.
What's interesting is the people at my work who take Uber to work -- they often arrive up to an hour early - or sit in the break room waiting for prices to go down at the end of the day. Some of these people live within the same on-demand zone.
It seems to me that smarter scheduling would make the service much better.
I think this is quite clever, as it can also be used to glean usage data to determine where to expand bus routes into.
There’s been some similar pilot schemes in the UK, with just a regular bus. No set stops or timetable, just an app that figures out how to route everything together. Kind of like the older “dial a bus” except higher throughput and dynamic routing.
It’s true that transit doesn’t have to be profitable, but Uber also has been highly unprofitable for most of its history.
Sharing rides with others can of course increase efficiency, but not by a factor of 9 and not when you have to treat your drivers much better.
My worry is that fares from lucrative routes in high density neighborhoods are used to subsidize ride sharing for the urban sprawl, when the money would be much better invested in improving service on high demand routes.
I get your "theory" BUT dis agree with your conclusion and HAVING hard to service areas being "subsidised" by high capacity route is a GOOD thing as we are EXPANDING The REACH and the "hard" neighbourhoods are the ones with the BIGGEST sprawl / car "impact" on the greater city AND ARE the more affordable areas
the HIGH VOLUME routes will get all the expansion they need because "they are paying the bill" so it is NOT like servicing the outer ring areas is going to IMPACT for the WORSE the inner areas
I love the first three second of this video for the creative juxtaposition of my profound interest in public transportation with my utter disdain for the business world.
Here in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, vans like these are an integral part of the transit system and work usually in a route similar to the ones that buses take, but can do it in a shorter span of time and can take shortcuts if the passengers agree with it. The fare is R$ 4,00 (a wee less than $1) and you can use your transit card (Riocard/Bilhete Único) as well! I personally enjoy taking a van a way more than taking a bus
In Berlin they had something similar to Metro Micro and it was great. I didn't mind waiting an extra 20 minutes to spend 11€ on a 36€ Uber ride. If I had a 1$ option I would surely take that!
Thank you for the great video! One more plus for microtransit that I feel people are overlooking is the data generated. This can be used to develop more efficent permanent routes in response to real-time demands instead of the "build and they will come" approach.
If my city offered a micro bus that could guarantee my drop-off time, I'd happily take it instead of a private ride hail service.
I live in a very walkable part of my city, and after 2 years of not driving, got rid of my car. I only need car service for medical appointments. I try to arrive 15 minutes early, That gives me plenty of time in a car. From what you said, it wouldn't be enough for a micro bus ... and I have no interest spending 30+ minutes sitting in a clinic waiting room in Outer Suburbia.
I walk whenever I can.
I take the bus if the route and timing work.
Otherwise, I'll take a ride hail.
We have a similar experiment in Atlanta called MARTA Reach! Its a really cool Georgia Tech and MARTA collaboration, that actually works really well in the testing areas to bring users right to nearby train stations, all for the included fare price of 2.50 and counts the same as a bus transfer. I think its a great last mile solution, hopefully they decide to expand the program once the testing period is over at the end of the month.
in east europe in the period between 1995-2010 we had a phenomenon of wild wild west of public transport called marshrutkas / mikrushkas, those were consumer grade used 10 year old vans that some dude bought a 10 of them, welded in some seats, started a company hired some drivers (who were literally mad) and let them out into the streets running routes alongside buses and trolleybuses, many people then and frankly to this day either cant afford a car or dont have a place to park it or dont have a licence or cant do the maintenance themselves and garage mechanics rip you off, mostly women and seniors and teenagers and beta males, whatever, people need to move they dont have cars buses are full so they launch this auxiliary service, not regulated whatsoever, drivers may be barely awake or under influence, always multitasking giving coins for change while speeding 80km/h weaving in and out of lanes beeping and swearing trying to beat all other rush hour traffic, its hot and humid inside in the summer, youre rubbing not just shoulders but whole bodies with strangers, falling over when braking, the suspension is crashing over bumps cause these things were never intended to carry so much weight. what an experience, glad I dont have to live through that anymore as soon as i turned 18 got my licence and a car so I never have to deal with it again, although this winter i tried commuting to work and back on public transport and I can report it got only marginaly better, marshrutkas are gone, the city just bought more buses and lowered prices relative to private businessmen and they all went bankrupt but the experience still involves taking 4 diferent modes of transport with layovers just to get to work and back, 20 min drive in a car turns into 1 hour 30min travel on public transport and you are still crammed together with stinky lowlifes in a noisy, rattly and crashy tin boxes
Convenience is the major issue. Like we have buses in my town of 30,000-40,000 people, but it only comes around every 30 minutes, and even that's a gamble as it's usually early or late so you'll probably miss it or be waiting around for too long.
I went to Toronto in October, paid a couple dollars, waited a few minutes for the subway, and it took me from the top of the city all the way to the bottom in like 40 minutes. It's too convenient to take the subway, and with a new line possibly coming, it gets even better.
A good thing to mention is that Uber, and other ride share services, are common among large cities, but not every city in North America have something like Metro Micro. Translink in Vancouver have a special type of service called HandyDart, where it's like Metro Micro but for people with special needs.
I really like the Moia service in Hannover and Hamburg. They're a subsidiary of Volkswagen and use purpose-built electric vans. I don't really know how their routes are planned, but they'll pick up and drop off people along the way.
A great long time example of this is MOIA in Hamburg (and Hannover), Germany.
I live in Tulsa, OK. They're currently piloting a microtransit system. It isn't bad, it's $1.75. Sadly the zoning for it doesn't reach my job so if our car breaks down (busline doesn't run anywhere near it) I'm out 30$ on a rideshare. It's weird because when they talked about it originally, they implied it would reach areas where the buslines don't but the only places it covers are ultimately places that do have buses (even if those buses are not nearly as consistent as they should be)
We have something similar in Tel Aviv, it's called Bubble and it's run by Dan a company that run bus lines in the metropolitan area in and around the city.
It's funny though how the example in the beginning of the video takes a ride of about 2.5 km or 1.6 miles (if I'm not mistaken). I mean, I don't see how anyone would even consider a car ride for this kind of distance. 2.5 km is literally a 8 min bike ride, so cycling is a better option in any metric (ease and time for sure. Price might be a little more than $1 if you would use a bike sharing system).
Even going to your destination on foot would take maybe 30 minutes (compared to 6min waiting + 11 min ride of Uber = 17 min total). So walking to your destination would be superior both on price and ease metric and only slightly slower than Uber but still much faster than MetroMicro. Probably the time and energy you spent walking around downtown waiting on your MM ride could have already got you at your destination.
For people to be replacing an inexpensive transit trip with an expensive uber trip there must be some pretty large issues with the transit that people are trying to avoid - crowded uncomfortable vehicles, difficulty transporting purchases (especially bulky or heavy items), lack of/poor/slow service all jump to mind. For some of these issues something like metro micro may make sense, but not for all of them. It's important to look at why transit is letting people down so much that people are willing to pay so much more for an alternative and try to fix those issues as much as possible.
Metro micro is the kind of thing I’ve wanted to see in the suburbs for years!
We’re chronically under served in bus service because we’re low density and theirs a lack of demand because everyone knows the bus takes forever.
We have good service down the main transit line but that mostly gets people to work downtown and back to the suburbs, avoiding the newer suburban shopping areas.
My workplace has the same problem. It’s fairly remote due to cheap land at the edge of the city and has a large number of employees who are not well serviced by transit because it’s not on the downtown route.
If this service existed in my city we could pack several 12 passenger vans getting people out of my work, but we wouldn’t quite have enough riders to justify a city bus.
UTA in Salt Lake City has a service similar to this for rides on demand to get transit riders to and from train stations and bus stops, a "first mile" and "last mile" solution for areas underserved by transit and the fare in included in the transit fare.
My City (about 700,000 in the whole metro) is doing something similar to provide transit for people who live in the suburbs to the city for work.
What I think your video did not mention was that these routes cost far more per rider than a bus route. Uber/Lyft have to charge what they charge to make up for that but cities can take it out of their taxpayer-funded budget. In many cities (especially smaller cities) where the transit budget is more limited spending that much more per rider to compete with uber comes at the cost of improving other public transit systems (more bus routes and higher frequency) that can accommodate more riders while minimizing the cost to the taxpayer.
Funny that you showed a Dayton RTA bus in this one when talking about how rideshare siphons riders from transit. I used to drive for Lyft in Dayton, and some of my passengers were low income people just going to work. I remember some of them talking about how they didn't take the bus because the schedules were so terrible. I imagine infrequent service on transit systems has to bear some of the responsibility for the dent in ridership that Uber and Lyft have caused.
They are planning something like this in Vienna to solve the last-mile problem for people from the suburbs. Really looking forward to it!
Milan has a service similar to this, but it only runs between bus stops and only at night when regular buses aren't running.
Wow, the Metro Micro seems like an amazing service!! In Montreal, they are testing out a similar service.
It had a bike rack! YOU DIDN'T MENTION THE BIKE RACK !!! 🚲 (Great vid, didn't realize this was a thing)