What is God, Exactly? w/ Jordan Peterson
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- Опубліковано 17 тра 2024
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In this clip, Matt Fradd and Jordan Peterson talk about what God is, exactly. Well, for one thing, he's not a desk! But what is he? A person? An idea? A definition? Find out!
DISCLAIMER: Nothing in this video is meant as medical advice
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i like how peterson closes his eyes anytime he's thinking hard
when hes recalling word vomit from the priest. his thinking does not add up.
Yeah closing his eyes to say god is "the spirit of hierarchical harmony". Nice daily dosis of bullshit
@@AlexanderRodriguez-tf4pk lol yeah. if it cannot be put plainly. you dont even believe it! jordan doesnt even understand wtf hes saying thats why he sticks to bible vernacular...
He's farting silently
He closes his eyes to see
I got more from 11 minutes of this conversation than I did in three years of divinity school. Thank you.
@Solidio821 I studied for my M.Div. at both Episcopal Divinity School in Cambridge, MA and Bangor Theological Seminary in Maine. Neither school exists anymore. I learned more about the Gospel from working in a boatyard, which does still exist.
I guess you're more fucked up than meets the eye...
Belief in God *does* entail intellectual assent, but not merely this. I think St. Thomas’ distinction between credere Deum, credere Deo, and credere in Deum would be helpful to this conversation.
Why?
You nor even else has even established the existence of any supernatural deity of any kind. Jordan’s just promoting utter religious nonsense.
How does it imply intellectual assent?
A child believes in God because his parents do and he can't conceptualize any other belief system
Seems like a poor calculation to assume this child is a genius on the basis that he mimics his parents very well
@@JackLWalsh You're actually wrong on the idea that no one has ever established the existence of God, but that's unrelated to the OP's point.
OP is highlighting the difference between the two speakers' understanding of God. You point out that Jordan is just promoting what you call "religious nonsense." This is because he has a completely different approach to understanding God than the guy on the right, Matt Fradd. By the way, Mr. Fradd is actually way more religious than Jordan Peterson and the only one of the two who is fully committed to any particular religion (Catholic Christianity).
See, Jordan Peterson is a psychologist. His understanding of the concept of God, then, has more to do with the human mind than anything else. Thus, his discussions on the topic can seem wildly speculative and ungrounded.
Matt Fradd, on the other hand, is an admirer of St. Thomas Aquinas (thus the channel name, Pints with Aquinas). You know how I told you that you were wrong about no one establishing the existence of a God? Yeah, St. Thomas Aquinas was the guy who did that. He argued that there were five ways to determine the existence of God through reason and logic alone, and these are known as Aquinas's Five Ways. Now, some of his "Five Ways" make a lot of sense, while some are real head-scratchers. But if you want to understand why some people believe in God, you have to understand these arguments, otherwise, you will always misunderstand theism.
@@HeIljumper Intellectual assent doesn't mean being a genius. It just means agreeing that something is objectively the case. Any belief, religious or otherwise, requires you to agree with what's being said. Thus, to truly believe in God, you must agree that God objectively exists. This could be done for highly intelligent and ingenious reasons, or it could be for a reason like the one you mentioned (the child who believes in God because that's all he knows). All involve intellectual assent.
The confusion may be that you are confusing the word "assent" with the word "ascent." "Assent" simply means to agree or accept something as true. "Ascent" means to rise, or, in this case, gain a greater intellectual understanding of something. OP was using the word "Assent," as in to agree that something is true.
@@JackLWalsh nice try Jack. your life is nonsense. Good luck to you.
"The God that took the Soviet Union apart" what a bar to end the clip on
Holy Mother Russia wouldn't have been chastised as much IMHO
I much prefer the God that makes you think everyone is a communist.
Funny irony here....not many people know, but our late Pope John Paul II was instrumental in bringing down the Communist Soviet Regime....🕊️
@@cthulhucrews6602 G-d prefers everyone regardless of what you think.
In a way, also the God that temporarily prolonged the Soviet Union as Stalin temporarily brought back God to help win WW2.
Wow, now I understand what God meant by " the knowledge of good and evil". He was saying you don't get to choose what is right and what is wrong, I do that. I've heard so many theories from behind the various pulpits and none satisfied me. This does. God's love and goodness Dr. Peterson!
Btw, I've been praying for Dr Peterson. Just a "Dear God, I lift up Mr Peterson. May the evil not overcome him and your work through him. Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven" I felt that it pleased God. He needs prayer, the evil in the govt have their tridents pointed at him. Just an idea.
This one struck me too. Clear, deep, even paradigm-shifting.
@@johnmcwade1 paradigm -shifting is right. Funny how many decades this has eluded me and it took a person not polluted with religious training to lay it out. It seems obvious now!.
I heard that and thought, “wait a minute. Is that what is meant?” I don’t think it is. The conflict with the tree is not that they truly can’t eat from it - obviously they can. It’s that once they eat from it, they must be cast out of paradise and destined to die lest they eat from the tree of life - making evil immortal. In other words, God gifts them with death so they may purify themselves of the evil they now know - through death. The entire Christ story is about transformation - about letting the evil parts of us die time and time again - purifying ourselves. Christ came and conquered death - to offer us full purity - and a return to paradise.
@@benvoiles9166 I like your point about making evil immortal, so that guarding the tree of Life was necessary and a mercy, but I don’t think it’s an either-or. Any rule-making outside of his established order will by definition be less, broken, divisive, and so on.
This man is so unbelievably smart it hurts, it takes me ten minutes to think about one sentence he spoke that he took 5 seconds to construct in his head. There’s something to be said about thinking before you speak that I wish I was capable of doing on this level
Oh it hurts alright
Ditto. He’s incredibly articulate where sometimes he is speaking my language but I’m lost to what he just said. Listening again…😅
Perersons interpretation and understanding of God is what modern Christianity needs so badly. Speaking of God, thank God Peterson is speaking this way.
It does? I appreciate his deep dives into biblical stories and the archetypal meanings (yes, more priests should be more versed in that and in typology), and of course we should think MORE about the atributes of God as infinite good, the first cause, The Truth etc. But JP seems to stop there. The way I understand him, he struggles with the idea of a *personal* God, a God you actually pray TO, and he focuses only "beyond" that.
He says "I live as if God exists", but as if adding "but ONLY as these abstract concepts of the way life IS that I see God as, and not as a God who wants me to pray and to proclaim Him boldly and to be part of His Church here on earth that He established. The visible Church. And let me talk about heaven and hell as if they're just abstract concepts of states here on earth "actions having consequences in eternity", but not as what The Church teaches"
I find it hard to square that living "as if God exists" means not being able to subscribe to a huge chunk of the actual teachings.
He flat out says "it's not a set of beliefs". He accurately criticises the protestand view of sola fide, but then kind of does a FULL 180 and acts like it's 100% about actions and not at all about the actual faith. So in the end, it's all back to psychoanalysis and archetypes for him, and as much as priests should be able to explain things better for us, this analysis is lacking.
I just hope this is not an end of his journey
It's true. Our baby-like insistence on literalizing the immaterial is our greatest religious handicap. We take concepts and subjectively illustrate them, just to grasp them better; we metaphorize them; then the metaphor or illustration acquires tribal significance. And then we consent to even hate our fellow beings over our completely made up cartoon illustrations. "God is ONLY EVER THIS ONE THING THAT I WAS TAUGHT, and you are EVIL for having your own mind about it!" It's the greatest blasphemy to true religion, and it comes from believers whose creative interpretive powers either never existed, or were stamped out by the tribe.
The word you’re looking for instead of “metaphorize” is “Reify” reee -I-fyeee
Mr word salad when it comes to religion. Breaks his own rule in his twelve rules of life book by not using straight forward language. What a quack. All because he doesn't want to alienate his conservative base.
@@isidoreaerys8745 Thanks. I'm not confident I would hit the right nuance with that substitute, or if I'm aimed aright with that comment anyway, since I have no qualms with the equivalently valid colloquial materializations or "reifications" of the God-concept. All I wish to fault is their restrictiveness or rigidity.
John 14:6
“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”
King James Version (KJV)
In Jesus the ineffable God is revealed to us, and the good news is that He is good.
How do you understand that?
@@grmalinda6251 By reading.
Yes The Way is The Morality of God
Jesus was 100% man, and 100% God when He walked this earth. Because He was sinless, the holy and divine blood that spilled out on the cross is the only thing that will satisfy the judgment of God the Father when it comes to paying the price in full for our sins. Nobody, and nothing else provides salvation from death, hell, and the grave.
“Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.” (Acts 4:12)
"Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God."
I wish to have a closer look at Mr. Jordan's Coat. Its so cool. !!
Looks like images of paintings that depict Bible passages.
I feel like I need a translator watching jordan these days
yeah well he's undertaken a way to conceptualize the idea of God which in of itself is quite a complex idea to get your mind around - his vocabulary is largely inherited from Carl Jung's and Nietschze's writings (concepts like primordial chaos and what not), so he's speaking in terms of psychology and philosophy.
@@merchrich9758 Which is dangerously close (if not identical) with saying that God is what results from Humanity's collective consciousness, which basically makes us the creator and not the other way around. a lot of people will unwittingly become confused by this concept.
As the consummate ultracrepidarian - someone who pompously and presumptuously pontificates in things that fall outside of his field of knowledge and expertise, Jordan Peterson has no business voicing his (uninformed) opinions on matters that are only spiritually discerned (1Cor 2:6ff)!
Peterson’s tropology - the figurative interpretation of the Scriptures, not as an exposition of the Truth (with a capital ‘T’) by the Author of Truth, but purely as a source of moral guidance, is pure sophistry - superficially plausible, especially when presented with eloquent conviction (as Peterson does with great skill), but lacking any Biblucal substance!
Peterson’s (over)use of flowery language, while it may impress the Biblically illiterate, only serves to muddy the waters to make it seem deep! As a ‘cultural Christian’ (THAT betrays a Biblical naiveté), Peterson will do better confining his opinions to the ideas of his mentor, Carl Jung!
because it's not Christian. God isn't complex he's simple.
@@workinprogress8978did you even listen to his point or are you projecting some kind of fear on him?
I think the best description that Jordan is giving is that God is beyond comprehension when he says “mode” of being, I suppose he’s getting at God is not a belief per say, but it’s the way you “act”
Getting out in the world, too, is the main counter argument. Love that.
That is Pascal . Also Mysterium Tremendum in Rudolf Otto’s “ The holy other “
You mean God is a verb?
I think one can also say God is a 'realm of being'
I wish you would have pressed him a little more because I think the key question to ask Jordan so he stops tip toeing around the idea of God is "Without humans does God exist?" if no then he believes that overtime we have created an ideal idea of a future through trial and error that has become type of "spirit" that we naturally align ourselves to. But that version of God is man made and not real.
Bingo!
That's the perfect question
That’s a great question
He’s influenced by Jung (who was Gnostic btw) who would say God is consciousness, which we all access and without us, God doesn’t exist (obviously ridiculous)
He would somehow find a way to not anwser that as well. He should be a politician.
In the past, Jordan Peterson answered the question "what is God" by saying it would take too long to answer the question. He has previously listed various "descriptions" that have meaning in describing Gid to him personally, and which he sees as important to humanity's evolution. And one time he defined God this way, in an interview with Jonathan Pageau at his side (I wrote it down because it was interesting, I can't recall who Peterson was talking to):
"The striving towards monotheism is a descriptive enterprise to some degree. becasue it's an attempt to characterize the nature of the spirit that should be put at the highest place in the hierarchy of perception and action.....and then we can say, well the highest place is the divine place and we could make that a matter of definition. Ans so then we might say, well, what should be in the divine place? And I would say it has to be something that you can look at the world through and it has to be something you can act out. Well how do we characterize it? We characterize that using fiction, because fiction is the abstraction of hierarches of attentional prioritization and action. And then that character that's at the top of the hierarchy of attention and action, that's characterized as God. You can say well is that a fiction? \It's a fiction, but you have to retool your notion of fiction, because fiction then becomes the deepest form of ethical abstraction. \And so it's a meta-truth rather than a falsehook. We can say that in the highest sense in the Biblical corpus God is the ultimate fictinoal character. And then we're trying to characterize his nature as that which should be emulated, that unites us psychologically and socially."
This sounds to exactly how a someone on the outside of actual belief would describe the subconscious effort if a believer to comprehend "God". It is how a psychologist describes what a believer does mostly unconsciuisly. It describes how someone who sees utility for humanity to believe, but who does not "literally" believe themself, understands God. So the description of God is of one who does not possess Its own agency, and does not exist outside of the human mind. My opinion is, whether atheist or believer or agnostic, or some blend if these, honest people can have different takes on reality, and still be good. Peterson has said the atheists like Sam Harris and Matt Dillahunty are "Christian to the core". Actually, I think a strong case could be made that Peterson is actually atheist to the core. He's just defined his atheism as not being atheism, perhaps because he needs to. Whatever comes closest to working for ya I suppose. It's really wild that the atheist Peterson has such a large Christian following.
Thank you for this comment, I feel the same way. His claim of "I live as if God exists" that i think was mentioned in another clip really had me thinking. I just cant square that sentence (importantly, from someone seemingly so well versed in catholicism, and someone who already rejected protestantism) with the denial of such a huge chunk of the actual teachings of that God.
And what he denies, or avoids, is the spiritual part. The *personal* God. Of course God is The Truth, the first cause, He is infinite and beyond time, Good and Creation itself. JP likes those parts, but anything more concrete, he tends to ONLY see as apt metaphors.
I see it like this. When he says TRUE, he means "correct", or "spot on". Catholicism in that sense is simply spot on about our nature and morality, but not TRUE in all the facts and dogmas it proclaims. And not TRUE about the real heaven and hell, only "spot on" about the hell on earth we'll bring on ourselves and others (during our lives and after we die) if we dont obey "God"
Hey bro, I read you comment and I have a question for you. When scripture says God is a spirit what does it mean, what is a spirit in your own approximation???
Hey bro, I read you comment and I have a question for you. When scripture says God is a spirit what does it mean, what is a spirit in your own approximation???
@@pela907I think the Spirit as described in the bible is an entity that speaks to, appears, or "puts a feeling on" people to influence, help, or motivate them. In the bible, the Spirit is dependent on God. A projection in the old testament and one of the three persons of the trinity in the new testament. I'm an atheist but so I asked my wife who's Catholic and smarter than I am if this sounded fairly close to her conception of the Spirit and she said yeah.
Peterson's Spirit, as best I can tell is different. Let's say the Bible's Spirit was interacting with the last person alive on earth. When that person dies, the Spirit still exists. Not so with Peterson's Spirit. But boy oh boy is his Spirit useful to individuals while they're alive and striving according to Peterson. As I said in my post, everybody is just tryin' to live and hopefully tryin' to love, so however they can do that more power to them. Also, Clean your room.
@@rogerdittus2952 for an atheist you're actually pretty close, honestly your definition is even much better than most christians 😂. But I'd only push back by saying you described a spirit by what it does which is the characterization we get in the bible, what Peterson is trying to do is to describe The Spirit in it's fundamental essence as what it is, think of it as him describing God before any other reality existed. The Spirit is God.
Now I'll quickly admit that it's a pretty hard thing to do even for theologians, but he is actually fairing quite well and is stumbling upward. The other thing is Peterson is building his notion of the spirit from the image going up, and so he is constantly trying to Ground it in man's psyche. But the fact that he believes it's something that guided the evolutionary process means he does believe it is transcendent and beyond human existence. It's actually biblical and sound-ish.
As Peter Kreeft said, he is one step away from becoming Catholic, he just need to walk the talk about "becoming the fool to achieve the wizard"
If Peterson is saying that religion "is not a set of beliefs" (2:10) it will be a big step for him to become a Catholic.
Jordan has so much passion it seems like he’s almost just angry that everyone doesn’t know everything he knows. Love y’all
Jordan has a fascinating way of… tip toeing around the question being asked. When being asked if God exist, he says God is consciousness, but this merely begs the question if he exists independent or dependent on us.
He's just being careful, but by consciousness he means "logos" which is an ancient greek philosophical concept, and which John also references in the first verse of the gospel
Jordan said it clearly "god is not a table!" do you understand? Most people don't.
@@jakemiller7682 Catholicism has never said that 'God is a table'. And I mean that figuratively. In other words, God is not another being among many. He is not a thing. Even if we were to say He is the highest being above all, that's not what the Church teaches. As the great Thomas Aquinas said, God IS Being Itself. Just as an author of a book is in every letter, every word of his/her book, the author is not actually physically in the book. Such it is with the Author of Everything. He is in every aspect of His Creation, but is not a part of that Creation. He is beyond that Creation, outside of time and space.
@@nicolamustard7232 right, but god is not a being therefore cannot create. Gods are concepts created by people. The knowledge of good and evil. Neither god nor the devil exist, it's your intentions that determine your actions but the powers that be don't want you to know and understand it fully. They need to control your ideas, which allows them to control your actions.
@@jakemiller7682 you're correct in saying 'god is not a being'. God IS Being, and so we can 'be'. Why do you come to these videos and make comments? If you're so sure and arrogant about all of this, then why come here? Your ignorance is embarrassing. You have no clue what you're talking about.
Basically, you're saying that you know more than 2000 years worth of thought and analysis and questioning and philosophy and writing by humans clearly more capable of thought than you. That's quite the arrogant statement to make. As I said in another comment (I believe it was to you), go read Aquinas....easily considered one of the greatest thinkers of the past 2 millennia. That should take you about a year. Then read Augustine, Boethius, Chesterton, Balthazar, Ratzinger, Karol Wojtyla as follow-up. If you delve into all of that, that should take you another year, at minimum. Then come back and comment on things you know something about. Otherwise your blatant ignorance is just embarrassing. 🤦🏽♀️
The is absolutely true ,abrahams story is so much in tune with the story of siddhartha gautama ,the buddha ,he is given everything a kingdom, a loving father , a wife and people to rule ,all kinds of wishful things but still he chooses to go out there and search for the meaning of existence and knowledge to deal with suffering that characterises human existence by contending with the world in the forests trying out everything out there which breaks him apart in every way : he gets tempted by death, lust etc but he could have just said oh why am i even doing this ,i am a prince and i am out here become like just bare bones with no no way out ahead ,i try to eat my own faeces to see if thats the answer and finally he emerges out as a true indivudual after his struggle ,as the enlightened one ,the buddha who shall now guide others to nirvana when he could have just had it for himself. The fall and then the rise is characterised in the same way as the biblical corpus !!! He not just becomes a blessing to himself ,his dharma established as one of the foremost philsophy in world history, a 2500 genealogical legacy that still vivifies and guides the lost till this day and a blessing for everyone ❤️. This is the same motif of the crucified jesus on the cross and his later ascent as a divine being with the buddha represent as the brutually malaise stricken body of just bare bones which later transforms into the enlightened form embodying the victory of the sprit.
The only difference between humans and other animals is humans developed a religion which is a foundation of our morality. The reason humanity survived is the morality we developed to coexist and cooperate in groups. We were able to surpress our animosity in order for society to flourish.
That only works when you base it on the presupposition that there is no God. See, your concept of reality is all based on that presupposition and you never once consider that you could possibly be wrong.
I use to believe the same thing you do. I pray that God give you the ears to hear and the eyes to see Him.
“The natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.”
1 Corinthians 2:14
@@JaniceThompson228 My presupposition works with or without God. Problem with understanding of god is as dr.Peterson suggested our need to personalize god. Why couldn't the universe be God?
The whole point of natural philosophy which is the foundation of modern science is to better understand the universe. Newton believed universe is God and he followed his scientific endeavours to better understand God.
@@classicalmechanic8914 and there lies the problem - your are incapable of seeing truth because you hold your singular presupposition above all else, as a belief system, in-effect as a religion, and as a false idol/god
@@JaniceThompson228 I don't believe in God/the universe. Naming the metaphore for God from the bible doesn't mean I worship it.
Bible is written in metaphores. If you interpret everything literally, there is a lot of nonsense about slavery and sacrifice.
I believe bible is written in metaphores that has passed from generation to generation and people who followed the bible eventually survived because they followed values favouring societal progress.
“You have a field of possibility in front of you, and you navigate through with a vision” 👌
The gift of God to the world is Jordan Peterson dissecting the Bible Stories ❤🎉
😃😂Man i love this, this is so good!!
Praise be to God! Come Holy Spirit set the whole world on fire with Your Truth and Love!🙏🏻🕊❤️🔥🕊🙏🏻
If anything else were God, we would ask, "How does that stand to reason?" So if it is reason that establishes ultimate authority, then Reason itself is God. There is an ultimate Truth. And God is the axiom of Truth that enables reason to be applied to all reality. And like any axiom, there is nothing more basic that can establish God; it is God that establishes, creates, and maintains every other thing. No one can prove God; God proves everyone else.
Brilliantly stated.
I think this is very close but that reason too falls short. Reason has no intrinsic morality and cannot act alone. Reason can easily define what is but not what ought to be done for it. God is higher than reason.
But that’s just like. Your opinion. Man
The three most important words in science are "I don't know". I have made my peace with that.
Oh, how I wish Peterson would read/study Aquinas. I know that's a lot to ask, because the volume of Aquinas's writing and thought is nothing short of astounding; can be very overwhelming. Yet Peterson seems to steer clear of the great Church writers and thinkers. I would imagine that someone in his position would look into the likes of the Early Church Fathers, Boethius, Augustine, Aquinas, Balthazar, Ratzinger, Wojtyla, etc, etc. If for no other reason than to have some understanding of what everyone is talking about.
As someone in another comment said, "JP has to learn to dance with the Catholics if he is going to encroach so closely on our doctrines." Absolutely! 👍🏼❤🕊️
100%. It was quite disappointing to hear him in another clip mention communism and liberation theology when asked what he disagrees with The Church on. From someone so well read I expected a much deeper answer about more traditional teachings, and not focused on modernist influences that are a few decades old that even tho they've infested the current hierarchy, are NOT the teachings of The Church. It was asked in the context of "now that tammy has converted", so I understood the question as "she converted already, so which teachings are stopping YOU". The answer suggested as if she agrees with what he mentioned.. and I doubt that. It was a really poor answer, surprisingly not thought out...
I agree! He just doesn't seem to want to go there. It's unfortunate. The Communism comment came out of left field. Whoa, what?! I mean our dear Pope St. John Paul II was instrumental in bringing about the fall of the Soviet Regime. At Fatima (I believe it was), Our Lady spoke to the children asking them to consecrate Russia to her heart so as to stop the spread of Communism. As I said, if he's going to talk and discuss things so close to Catholic doctrine, I'm just surprised he hasn't looked into it more deeply. Bless you! ✝️🙏🏼🕊️
His wife is Catholic
You dont think he has read Aquinas already? Thats like basic theology and im pretty sure he has studied it.
I've never heard him mention Aquinas. Even when people like Bishop Barron are talking about Aquinas repeatedly, Peterson never engages in discussions about Aquinas or any of the great theologians. Never. And I have never heard him spontaneously refer to, or mention Aquinas, or Augustine, or Early Church Fathers, or even Chesterton or CS Lewis or Merton or even Wojtyla. The fact he jumped right to 'Communism!'....is he even aware of JP II's instrumental role in the fall of the Soviet Regime? He just never goes there. Maybe he doesn't want to be associated with Catholic thinkers, and would rather be known as one who built on the thought of Freud Nietzsche and Jung etc.. 🤷🏽♀️
I think it’s nothing short of a miracle that Dr Peterson has inadvertently brought so many to the church, even if he is not a “true believer” himself. I think he has a deep insight into the utility of God and the Judeo-Christian belief system in the pragmatic sense of building and maintaining a healthy civilisation. Perhaps he is just one transcendental experience away from accepting the supernatural aspect of the Divine as is, as a reality that is independent of the human agency? In any case, I only have the highest respect for him.
I think that may be the case. He helped me put one foot in the door but I quickly surpassed him and now have a relationship with Jesus. I pray he will get to experience that as well
God is a force of existence , I am who am , I am who I was , I am who would be , basically I am all that's God
another serving of word salad.... not sure I can eat anymore
"...the principle of voluntary self sacrifice reflects the fundamental Spirit of Being Itself...."
Awesome!
That's a pretty good description of the inner Life of the Trinity....❤
Deferring to one another is what we need to learn.
“It’s dog backwards.” Mind. Blown🤯🤯
It is quite fascinating to hear what Dr Jordan Peterson has to say about God even if one is an atheist.
lol no
@@BackroomCastingCouch-mm3sh lol, yes
This is because JP doesn't believe in the orthodox christian interpretation of God. He aligns more with the mystic view of God.
Carful with what because atheism if just another place to park your abstract thinking. Just another religion.
Tip to the cinematographer: Keep the lens on manual focus for the next episodes. It'll help avoid seeking like the one @1:10 :)
He's so close he just needs to get out of his head and take the leap of faith
He should play his answers to Matt’s questions.
Why do you people always assume that you somehow know more or you have the right way to do it? It's so annoying. It feels like you're incapable of listening or trying to understand other points of view. Maybe god put someone intelligent in front of you who can actually teach you about the bible in a way you haven't thought of before?
My cousin and great friend Patrick told me the same things that God told Abraham. God bless Patrick and his heirs.
The more I watch and hear him, the harder I disagree with him.
It seems that in disguise, calling God "beyond being" is an excuse for him to avoid the question of his actual existence.
I'd say Peterson isn't as close to being a christian as a lot of people make him to be.
In the absolute conlusion of his thought, christianity is a set of value, and God merely the name of the underlying axiom of these values that could as well be an Outer God of Lovecraftian fiction.
This is the type of question I've always wanted to ask Jordan Peterson if I ever had the chance, especially considering the influence of Jung on his worldview. Thank you!
Stay Up ⬆️
God is a spirit; infinite, eternal and unchangeable in his being, wisdom, power, holiness, justice, goodness and truth.
I love this... Go Jordan❤
I get chills with this one
It took 14 years for GK Chesterton to completely convert to Catholicism - all in God’s time.
I've listened to alot of JBP but he's throwing some deep knowledge at us on this podcast.
Mr. Peterson is fascinating to listen to. It would be so much better if you sound isolate your microphones Off the hard wood table so he's not constantly interrupted by the thumbing. Very distracting. Good show
Yes God is infinite majesty but I suspect every good thing we do and conceive of was inspired by Him because He too values them. He loves families and art and music and gardens because these are characteristics displayed throughout the entire spectrum of humanity. We are even made in His image. I know too well that He has a marvelous sense of humor and loves a surprise ending.
In the dialogue about the definition of God I don't hear from Jordan Peterson saying anything about God that is personal. One that wants to interact with creation. In other words, God by definition throughout the scriptures is depicted as a spiritual being that wants to have fellowship with human beings. It started with creating Adam and Eve to rescuing the Israelites to giving them land to providing a savior in Jesus Christ to an eternal home in heaven.
Please set your camera on a fixed focus so your guest’s view doesn’t focus in and out when the guest raise their hands.
Taking your cross and struggling uphill Golgatha isn’t something you decide to do, it’s decided by those in power. Furthermore, getting dished out capital punishment is usually not meant to be a heroes journey to enlightenment. NOW, living your life in a Kantian way and try to get some help by recurring to positive hypotheses might truly bring you forward. Also recurring to moral realism seems to diminish the results of our self-civilizational endeavors. It’s not just a struggle to unveil, but to develop a modus operandi that would support individual and collective flourishing. Nevertheless, preaching Jordan is always a pleasure to watch.
Make believe.
God is like Father Christmas for adults, if you believe you can be manipulated in order to get the presents when you die.
God is❤
JORDAN, SAY IT WITH ME NOW, SLOWLY: "I ... DONT ... KNOW". You can even say 'yet' if you like.
What I want to know is where Petetson’s getting these wild blazers.
God is reality. God is truth in matter, energy, and the lack thereof.
I’ve been a sceptic of religion for many years, but I have respected an individuals choice regarding this very personal issue. Im not a critical thinker by any means, ha! didn’t even finish high school. I guess I’m a rather a simplistic working class man navigating through my senior years with some self doubt, doubt regarding my own sense of purpose and my own personal legacy. Trying to get a sense of the world today and what to me seems to be escalating to absolute crisis (if you buy into click bait social media!) But Jordan has me questioning these things more deeply. He presents his view in a way that just clicks with me. I’m finding this topic far more interesting having had him explain in a manner that allows me to think deeper also. Thank you Jordan for opening the door so to speak
what do words "sceptic of religion" really suggest about you? How do you know you understand the Old Testament like Peterson described? Pick up the cross and start uphill. "The spirit of harmony, it'll be good for everyone".
Thank you Jordan Peterson. Really, my only intellectual hero ....
The cross is a constant reminder of sacrifice. You cannot have faith without sacrifice.
Lol i read the thumbnail as "what is good"m i thinking they talking hood like whats good lmao 😂😂😂
I recall a saying years ago - "far out" - precisely. Praise Elohim!
Smart chaps. I appreciate the mental shortcuts.
“ the most divine knowledge of God, that which comes through unknowing, is achieved in a union far beyond mind, when mind turns away from all things, even from itself, and when it is made one with the dazzling rays, being then and there enlightened by the inscrutable depth of Wisdom.” - St Dionysius the Areopagite
Genius. Jordan has the rare capacity to perceive the nature of reality and communicate it to others.
God is love and God is light and in him is no darkness at all. Know and understand I am the God of ever lasting mercy and kindness. God is an all consuming fire. Thee is peace and joy in the Holy Spirit (Dutamus Resurrection Power).
I never thought the day would come when I couldn’t tell the difference between a Jordan Peterson and Deepak Chopra statement.
Substantive discussion. No easy questions. I appreciate this.
I'm so happy you asked difficult questions!
Just prove to me that there is a God !
Well said Jordan!!
The energy of the father creates what matters for the son
Jordan Peterson has the Holy Spirit in him that’s why he can understand God and can interpret the characteristics of God so well!
Odd, tho, if a newager had said this it would have been bashed by the catholics. Now they don't dare or at least doesn't want to since they hope JBP to join.
God is clearly not the same as his creation and he isn't a physical being in his most core essence, sure, but he is not simply identical with consciousness, Jordan.
If his essence is consciousness, God is not simply the natural outcome of human consciousness, or a creation of our consciousness in the Jungian sense, but rather the original consciousness (the truest person, if you will, since he is not a contingent being and is completely self-existent). We only have consciousness because he is consciousness. While we can imagine, he can truly create. While we can remember, he experiences past, present, and future continuously. We come and have our being from God, not the other way around. We are the shadows, he is the one whom we are shadows of. We reflect light. He is the light we reflect.
Very well put.
Fabulous! ✝️🙏🏼🕊️
good stuff, but it means that God is not "beyond being". That idea is going to be a block to Peterson believing in Him.
@@fr.hughmackenzie5900 yeah, I raised an eyebrow at that too. God IS being. Not a being, but being itself. The self-existent one
@@workinprogress8978 Thanks, but IMO the scholastic acategorical, "ineffable" (0:25) God (which he's picked up from Bp Barron) confirms Peterson's quasi-pantheism (e.g. 2:05: religion is action not "a set of beliefs"). After all Existentialism (as per Peterson) is a somewhat needed correction to Aristotle's Essentialism. It was the latter's statically categorical essences which made it impossible to put the Absolute Being in a category.
Better to say our creative self-consciousness is in the image of the absolute Creator, non-physical but about which we can say a lot of categorical stuff by analogy.
Matt, when is Bishop Barron coming on the show?
The simple question to ask Peterson is this. "Is Jesus God?" As thomas said, my Lord and my God, or as Jesus says in revelation to John, I am the alpha and the omega. The beginning and the end. THE ALMIGHTY.
Does Jordan Peterson have any videos on the trinity? I’ve never heard him talk about it!
Probably wouldn't understand a damn thing he said.
He talks about it in either his first or second lecture on Genesis.
Where did Jordan Peterson get that blazer?
Reality through the lens of Science is thoughts about things.
Reality through Religion is the experience of Reality and the Experience of Reality which is truly beyond words.
Materialists reject what cannot be put into words as meaningless nonsense.
And, teach their world-view as the only valid way to experience reality.
I believe GOD is BEING everyone/thing else is becoming.
God: there is no god but Him, the Ever Living, the Ever Watchful.Neither slumber nor sleep overtakes Him. All that is in the heavens and in the earth belongs to Him. Who is there that can intercede with Him except by His leave? He knows what is before them and what is behind them, but they do not comprehend any of His knowledge except what He wills. His throne extends over the heavens and the earth; it does not weary Him to preserve them both. He is the Most High, the Tremendous.
(2:255)
Wether one believes in God is one thing. Wether God exists is another. Regardless of any answer to either those questions, they would all reach the realisation of taking up one’s cross and carrying it.
Something akin to “People didn’t lie to us. We just did not find the truth yet.” And by us and we I mean each and every person themselves.
The more we understand people the less we try to control people against their will, the more we truely align with our true selves and paths and with each other. When we truely accept ourselves we truely accept each other. That’s some truth to me. :) thanks for this. Appreciate it. ✌️🫶
So, God's calling of Abraham wasn't in fact to call him to worship the real God as opposed to the false gods of his people. Rather, it was about Abraham self-actualizing as a grown man. Got it, Jordan. Thanks. Who knew!? 🙄
What’s the difference between them, worshipping the real god is self actualizing
JP characterizes God as the:
1:16 Process that gives rise to being, like consciousness (E-lohim as the forces of nature)
3:06 Spirit of hierarchical harmony (Basic human drive)
9:02 Establisher of the moral order (Being as the compass to harmony)
9:06 Spirit that forbids humans to define the moral order (Denying Being blocks harmony)
Alternative proposition on the same principle -
God as one's chosen highest supremity either through worship and/or submission to its guidance.
The Bible calls for Being to be one's God so human remains compatible. It allows the personification of Being in order to intensify attention and adaptation to Being. Making God a separate persona (tegod) may have a balancing effect on making oneself a separate persona (egod) that turns away from Being. This intellectual fallacy may be worthwhile for countering the valuational corruption and should therefore only be rejected once the corruption is remedied.
If my final judgment is dependent on what others think of me, I'm toast.
Yep, some good lessons, but it’s all about Jesus. I’ll just go off of what the Bible says. In Genesis 12 when God said to Abraham to “go from his country”, it was so that God would create a nation through his offspring that would bring about the promise of redemption, ie. Jesus, when God said “and all the peoples on earth will be blessed through you”.
With all the laws of the universe it makes since that there would be a morale law
The presumption that taking up your cross and going up hill can benefit oneself, is an impossibility. In it's entirety, it is detrimental to our existence on all its human levels.
God is Truth itself. All truths combined is God. The absolute Truth of absolute truths. That's the Holy Spirit. "He will guide you into all truth". God is also Goodness itself. All that is good is from God. God is subsistent being, being in itself. He is who He is. He's the Logos, the logic behind all logic, fact of all facts.
A wise man is not here at all. I think the wisest words stated on this subject was probably said by Keith Szarabajka via Joshua Graham in Fallout. “"Whether there is a God or not, his existence doesn't depend on what you believe or what I say. There is much to be skeptical of in this world, so it no longer surprises me to learn how many people don't really believe in anything.”
Confusing nature with science has not boded well for our mental health imo. Our spiritual nature our psyche that part that we can’t put to words that make us long for the truth of existence. This part of us makes no scientific sense and to seek to explain it away has seemed to simply cause of mental anguish. Just my two cents. 🤷♂️
Christ is King, JP.
I would like to humbly submit these for your considerations to hopefully enrich the discussion:
1. Like their Lord and at the risk of their lives, the apostles and first disciples of Jesus testified that Jesus of Nazareth was risen just as he said, along with many other things he said and did and qualities he remained to be, even on the cross.
2.If the testimonies of the disciples are true, then Jesus is the only person in history that could ever speak life beyond suffering and death starting with his own.
3.That put Jesus and his words on a qualitatively and categorically different level than all others. They outweigh all the words and truth claims made by all other human beings on any subject matter. Jesus and his words are not to be dismissed.
4.Then it follows that of all the subject matters, the most urgent and important of all to consider is the identity of this man called Jesus of Nazareth.
5.On this matter, what Jesus himself said directly or indirectly about himself, his self-claims on his own identity, and his self-consciousness of who he is as reflected by his other words, actions and way of being, also outweigh all other statements made by all other humans made about him.
6.The necessity of Messianic suffering, particularly the cross, which Jesus emphasised as :
A. The chosen way of the God of Israel for the chosen Messiah through whom God will bless the sin-cursed world (and accomplish good in, through and out of what men mean for evil) as foretold by the prophets and written in the Scriptures, transformed the apostles’ Judaic traditional partial understanding on God and His relationship with the Messiah in Scripture (Christ’s full humanity)
B. The only way to “life” or “self” for all humanity. (What is man)
7.The first disciples eventually arrived at the recognition that Jesus was not just a moral pious teacher, a mighty prophet, or king of the Jews, but the Christ over the whole humanity and creation. (Christ’s divinity)
8. The person of Jesus then also became the authority through whom we know the God and the Spirit of the LORD in the Hebrew Scriptures, i.e. the perfect image of God, God’s self revelation, etc. the trinitarian God made himself known/ knowable through Jesus and the Spirit.
9.Love, or more precisely, the capacity to keep on loving while being wounded and killed, which Jesus himself achieved, and what apostle Paul characterised ad the greatest gift of the Spirit to pursue, or the fruit of the Spirit, which is about NOT a order or hierarchy of virtues (e.g. patience, kindness, compassion, truth seeking, joy, peace, self control, etc), as if they are independent and separable, but about being and character (integrity, resilience, maturity), individual and corporate, is the mark of authencity of being in the Truth or living towards closer to the Truth.
I owe this line of believing (or hierarchy of belief) to Pannenberg’s contributions: anthropological, from-below-to above Christology, the quest for ultimate Truth and the retroactive power of the easter enigma.
One major difference I hold is, the starting point towards the quest of Truth shouldn’t be asking, attempting to, and supposing we can answer questions such as “what is God” or “how do we know if Jesus is God”. I believe this attitude or posture is similar to Jordan Peterson’s reasoning behind his reluctance or refusal to say whether he believes in God.
A much better starting point, I humbly submit, shall be confessing the reality of our lostness in who or what we really are as human beings.
How can we who don’t even know ourselves or who and what we are suppose we can judge what qualifies God as God?!
My belief on character relies heavily on Jonathan Edwards’ concept of “the concatenation of grace” and subsumption in his explanation on the fruit of the Spirit. And these things came to my knowledge through another heroes of mine, the late Reverend Dr Tim Keller.
one thing that stumps me about God’s existence is the negative triad. Like i do think there is something out there, whether it is just the universe, or karma or a God, but if someone could completely win me over through explaining how the negative triad and God can coexist, I would definitely believe icl
What do you mean the negative triad?
why is everyone in the comments saying convert already😅? sounds like a Christian to me! And besides, who is to say they know his heart’s decisions based on any interview he does or anything he says. I say: if he is not yet a believer, I pray for him. I say: If he is already a believer in Christ Jesus, welcome! And I shall continue praying for him. On account of his public position.
May he keep asking seeking and knocking. Truth will reveal itself to him. So glad an intelligent man has been given the gift to speak so well.
@Solidio821 opt
I pray for his enlightenment.
God is Love
God is also nothing and everything at the same time 🫨
God is also justice, truth, mercy
@@Crystal-iy4siI understand how God is love and truth, but how is he justice and mercy as opposed to just being a just/merciful act?
@@lebeccthecomputer6158 So, to agree with your first sentiment, John 4:16: "And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them." As for your actual question, I am not sure I understand it correctly. Are you asking if God exists and IS love, why is it that, for example, sometimes a totally innocent person is rescued at the last minute from, say, a firing squad (the "just/merciful" act you speak of)-and another totally innocent person in a similar scenario is not rescued, and perishes or is seriously injured (How can God then completely be justice and mercy?) Do I at least understand your question? When you have a chance, let me know ... I will try to provide you with Scripture.
@@user-xs5ew4bw4p I’m moreso looking for a mechanical/philosophical explanation rather than proof of truth of the matter
“It’s about asking up your cross and following him.” That’s just blind obedience.
Everything that can be known about God is revealed in Christ, That’s a beautiful revelation.
Which messiah are you referring to?
This guy is rocking a Mohawk.
"It's a mode of being; it's not a set of beliefs." I think that's the key point of contention that atheists and anti-theists have with Jordan's definition of "God." From my understanding, Jordan conceptualizes God as "the form of the highest good," but his detractors insist on God being boiled down to whether or not He literally exists.
"...that's not the selfish gene." Love how Jordan had to include a subtle dig at Dawkins, lol.
God is the order of the ideal man, heavenly numbers of the Vitruvian Man.
"it's a mode of being, it's not a set of beliefs" 💯
He's incorrectly understanding 'belief' in the Protestant version of it. Catholic understanding of it is something like 'faith working in love'; that faith and reason are two sides of the same coin. Why won't Peterson read Aquinas? At least to know some of what the Catholics are talking about.
As someone from another comment said, " JP has to learn to dance with the Catholics if he is going to encroach so closely on our doctrines". Absolutely! God bless Him 👍🏼🙏🏼✝️
@@nicolamustard7232that's not the protestant usage of belief either.
I was half way through this thinking Dawkins already nailed this with ‘The Selfish Gene’ and Jordan says ‘it’s not the selfish gene!’.
No, this is explained in Dawkins theory beautifully. The explanation above explains nothing at all.
i take my hat off to you ❤
Here we go again another video pushed on me on May 18. Jordan needs to address as part of a disciplinary probation order, a period of suspension may be imposed prior to the effective date of the probation. The Board's Disciplinary Guidelines provide details of the conditions under which a suspension may be made a part of the probation order. During suspension, licensees may not practice psychology or refer to themselves as psychologists. As indicated above in "Probation," suspensions are considered disciplinary actions associated with probation orders and, as such, are public information and provided to consumers upon request.
Jordan is a Frasier Crane wannabe. He is an entertainer not a psychologist. Because he sells books and videos and lectures, THAT IS NOT THERAPY. He needs to address his bad conduct in courts in the case of Case 1 Sordi v. Sordi, 2009 CanLII 80104 (ON SC) he defamed a parent in court. In the case 2 R. v. Pearce, 2012 MBQB 22 (CanLII) he tried to free a murderer. Then in the case Peterson v. College of Psychologists of Ontario, 2023 ONSC 4685, he tried to avoid taking responsibility. He also tried to interfere in a family court case in Montana, the Kolstadt case, where there was a GAG order, he unprofessionally diagnosed a minor without interviews or assessments, and tried to defend unfit parents.
When you're blameless I'll listen to you, but for now we're here to listen to Mr Peterson.
@@seane.9937 What is "blameless" That is a false idea. So you are saying Jordan is free to harm anyone based on his perspective?
@@stevengoldstein114 no, I didn't read your post very closely. Sorry, you have the right to post an opinion. I like the guy but to be honest I don't follow his affairs. Basically all I know is he's a well spoken PhD from Canada who I tend to agree with. So I have no ammunition to argue with. Enjoy your Saturday! God's love and goodness
@@seane.9937 God is evil, because he damaged me before i was even born. I have lived with suffering all my life for some so called sin I never could have done. Time to face it there is no god it is a imaginary character.
@@stevengoldstein114 I grew up in orphanages and many foster homes. I was confused as a young kid as to why I was living in a unsafe home in the hood with A highly incompetent alcoholic mother until my siblings and high were placed in state care. But, there are reasons. You may have agreed to do this before birth to learn something that your soul had to learn. Some of the things I learned are: forgiveness, gratitude, living in joy, living in nonjudgment. All are difficult but each one makes life better. I can truly awake in the morning and thank God for each minute of my life, with love. It's for you too. Take care