This pistonless engine runs on hydrogen and revs to 25k rpm
Вставка
- Опубліковано 28 бер 2022
- Its called the Omega 1 and it is a rotary engine with no seals, barely any moving parts, and almost no losses in the combustion cycle. With a traditional internal combustion engine you lose stacks of energy through heat and friction, well with this new engine by Astron Aerospace. They aim to eliminate nearly all the losses associated with internal combustion.
#omega1 #rotary #pistonless
Hi guys, I just want to say, thanks for watching and I did not design this engine. This engine is designed and Developed by Astron Aerospace. I just make videos on cool technologies and anything car/bike related
Awesome if true... Battery power is toxic, because it is toxic it is lame.
It has always been a bad choice for the environment which is this planet and the residents of which are in a closed loop.
So better more efficient less toxic designs are needed or human beings will have essentially killed themselves off by killing off the planet they dwell on having polluted and trashed it to where it cannot sustain life.....
Great video thank you for sharing and let's hope that the people playing around with hydrogen can perfect their technology and where the powers that be cannot ignore it and would be forced to adapt or perish.
So you did nothing but put a video to it. Thank you for letting me know that my appreciation should go elsewhere.
Not that even that deserves the title.
The most important question. How practical is it
I don't think it will be great for cars but airplanes, trains and large trucks could still use something of this nature. Personal transportation, side from performance cars and bikes might find it useful.
Nah, my friend's dad designed a hydro car 30 years ago, gov stole the tech. My grandpa, a civil engineer, designed the hovercraft in the 50's, gov took that, too. New energy won't be used, unless they can make more money from it than oil.
Tight tolerance and high rotation speed to eliminate seals? All engines are great on paper.
Yeah, no time to leak??? Yeah right......
Agreed
Its called a dynamic seal. They only work well at high rpms. Most oil cooled dynomomiter motors use them. You don't often see them leak.
Where is the output shaft
@@jamesmatthews2966 not a shaft per se, but a geared ring. It's at the back of the engine. I've seen better representatives of this and it is shown that way. You'd have to use something like a torque converter in an automatic transmission to make anything that turns this fast to work anyway.
Without seals it would require insane tolerances and any wear would kill its ability to produce power .
Not to mention thermal expansion.
Just think of it as a tight tolerance on the engines lifespan.
It would require some sort of special oil instead of the average of oil clearance of 3 to 5 thousandths of normal engines. Heat would be a major factor with thermal expansion. Would be fun if it was available to mess with.
@UCOWitZDANG3iu5NmRVhDXFg nope guess 30 years of building engines taught me nothing? Nitrous and turbo engines require different ring gaps than a N/A engine. This would be like the last RX8 engines that dealers had to keep in stock for warranty purposes.
But what if we just put seals on it? I don't know if he said it wouldn't work without
I like how it looks on paper and it makes sense, but an actual implementation will present several challenges. I'd like to see working models in real world testing.
my concern is 200 psi, that has to go somewhere. Exhausting that would be quite the feat and would make your exhaust physically dangerous for several feet.
@@Rustyer266 diffuse it over a large area, done
Hydrogen is almost a requirement for this, as carbon buildup with tolerances that tight would likely ruin it pretty quickly
@@GeorgeTsiros so have a flat resonator
they already have a prototype running just cannot find the link grrr
Yeah, as soon as any heat is added to this equation, the materials are gonna expand. Super fast.
ESPECIALLY if that thing is able to run at 25k rpm lmao
the more highly ‘strung’ they are with super-tight tolerances then it wouldn’t take much for it to eat itself when moving parts do come together with heat distortion or a foreign body entering at those kind of rpms….. all of those close tolerance surfaces would gall up and it would be scrap in no time at all, great in theory with a ‘clean’ burning fuel….be interesting to see a built and proven prototype….
@@turtlezed yeah and this video dosent discribe much about lubrication, metal and friction without lubrication = disaster :P
@Fiendish Memory
That’s a child level of an argument. You don’t have to be an expert in something to point out flaws. I don’t have to be a master guitarist to hear a missed note. Or a professional racing driver to see a badly taken corner. And certainly don’t have to design an engine to address a concern with another’s design.
@Fiendish Memory
I don't argue with children lmao. Step up your ability to talk to adults like adults and you'll have more adult conversations.
So your point is that their concern is invalid? None of us having our own design couldn't be less relevant in any conversation outside of child level debates.
Actually make a point. Address your problem and explain why you have a problem. If you can't do that, I'd take that at more a sign of an invalid opinion than our lack of personal engine designs.
Would love to see one produced and bench tested.
Would not work
@@Oceam It would work if its made out of materials that we can't yet manufacture. Maybe in 50 years time, there will be ceramics which can maintain the extremely tight tolerances, and never expand under high temperatures. But in 50 years time, no one would be thinking internal combustion.
@@abaj006 It doesn't need too.. At operating temp it would be where it seals best so thermal expansion would aid efficiency as with any engine.. That's where it's tolerances, again as with any engine will be set to work.
At a guess, I'd say that's why the surface area of the "seal" on the rotor is so very, very, very large..
It's the exact opposite of a conventional apex seal in principal, in that an apex seal has the lowest possible area of surface contacting the housing due to heat caused by friction, the need for lubrication in the combustion chamber which adversely effects emissions and also the subsequent wear that occurs.
This design though is frictionless so it can have the largest surface area practical to form a "seal" through restriction, length of restriction and reducing duration of maintained cylinder pressure.
Not just by "extremely tight tolerances of materials that don't exist".
I'm not saying for certain whether it would work or not, or even that it won't run like a pig until it's at optimal operating temperature, but I understand the theory and see it's purpose and merits..
I also see some potential flaws.
Having far less moving parts and less friction would benefit it thermally over conventional ice but it would take development, but if we are just dismissive like you, of idea's we'll never advance at all.
I think it could work but as you say tolerances would have to be tight. How it would handle wear ???
@@adrianrouse5148 It's tolerances would be only "tight" at optimal operating temps.
Wear will be non existent on rotors and housings as it's contactless..
However, if you are familiar with turbochargers or superchargers (which this engine shares it's form with in principal, especially the precombustion rotor which is essentially an inbult supercharger) the contactless seals and pressures they generate and maintain only remain so dependant on the main shaft bearings condition.
So if it were a coventional journal bearing it could possible foul with wear, if it's a roller bearing it will be much better suited but more expensive.
Reminds me of oil scroll seal design used on old British engines. With tight tolerances, they worked great for a short period of time when new. That’s where the saying ‘all British engines leak oil’ comes from.
If there isn't any oil under them, there isn't any oil in them. - Tow Mater
Do you know why the British do not make TVs? Because they have not figure out how to make it leak oil yet.
It would require an engine the size of a bus to equal gasoline!
160? BS
The last century it came from when man went to the moon with tec your toaster now has
Back in the early 2000s I was a test driver for a Toyota hydrogen engine in cold weather testing in Northern Canada it was quite a remarkable engine
Not allowed to succeed either?
@@jackkelly9022Elon Musk killed it
@@jackkelly9022 search for GR Yaris Hydrogen, the car is real but not sold to public yet
The beauty of the counter rotating cylinders is the cancelling of inertia from each cylinder. Simply Inspired.
2 things come to mind, 1) I'll believe it when I see it in production and 2) I want one on a motorcycle.
I came here from a motorcycle channel lol
I was thinking my suv, but motorcycle? You daredevil you.
Troy Reed showed how he developed his self-running motor from being a 10 foot tall monstrosity to putting it in a car. Charge the grid when you plug it in.
Dennis Lee for 24/7 solar power anywhere on Earth.
Pro. Royal Rife for the Cancer Cure from the early 1900's.
Dr. Stanislaw Burzynski ua-cam.com/video/qQKaCTdrmJc/v-deo.html cured 98% of his patients with a harmless enzyme and the FDA is still trying to put him in prison.
How deep does the Rabbit Hole go? Is everything Propaganda? I thought years ago that with the World Wide Web, there'd be a Technological Revaluation by now. The Elitist are making a last ditch effort by harping on the Green New Deal. Videos like this are part of the problem. They complicate matters to the point where it stifles inventors from thinking linearly.
Did you know that you can take a magnet from a microwave and easily build an LED lamp that will stay lit for over a hundred years and more with no moving parts? There are technologies that would allow you to fly for as long as you can stay awake, then your buddy could do the same thing and you could continue until you run out of food or water (if you don't have a toilet).
The more you know, the closer we all are to true freedom.
You "sound" intelligent, can you grasp the things I've written about?
Does it have a bore and stroke ratio ?
Yea motorcycle was my first thought
So is this an actual engine or a cad on a harddrive somewhere? I've seen so many amazing engine designs over the years, but that's all they are, amazing designs. They never seem to leave the harddrive or old school drawing board.
Lol true
One of the main reasons being that the existing powers that be don't want that to happen. It will be very interesting to see social and economic pressures push the ICE to greater and greater efficiency over time. I'm still waiting to see a small turbine powered generator running on diesel used to charge the batteries on a hybrid. Aircraft have been using this system for years and its fully hands off and crazy efficient...maybe too efficient???
In short, I think inventive engine ideas, lack the capitol, to be built in a shed/backyard/warehouse...if you did have the money, it would probably be a very poor investment, with little to zero financial gain,( a giant money pit) unless you had a serious investor....and by the time you initially had a cheap, promising, marketable idea, world industry powers would have you silenced/killed off.
@@jbrownjetmech-4783 Trains use a similar system. Diesel generators power electric motors. I'd love to try building something similar in a car, but who knows if that'll happen due to time and money restrictions lol
@@smileyguyz I feel you on that, got a turbo whr componder electric hybrid idea that uses a flywheel but... I don't have the money or time to try it out yet 😔... just sitting there on a solid works file.
R&D should definitely be continued. There are a lot of small difficulties to overcome but I would also love to continue with " Suck, squeeze, bang, blow"
Ford is apparently putting this in the new transit vans
Technology is so good that problems and cost can be overcome. But we are at a stage where the diversities in energy production and storage must all be explored and supported and maybe the diversity of methods for local needs should be explored and the idea that only a central grid can supply total coverage could be rediscussed to the planet's advantage.
@@timw4030 my personal opinion is that relying on an external power source is backwards technology. Electric cars are a step backwards.
@@msharp6887 no they aren’t. This isn’t even a remotely proven concept
@@thedefenestrator2994 look it up
I think this is beautiful. The simplicity speaks volumes in the design and team that designed it . Absolutely inspiring 🙌 👏!
It works beautifully in the animation. Machining it and making it work out of the design app is something else.
Yeah, if this isnt bullshit at all, tight tolerances mean very high manufacturing costs, we wont be seeing this in cars any time soon, if ever
@CarFreak and it was and still is true
A robot has already replaced you down to the opinion.
@CarFreak that's bullshit ..we had electric cars doing 60mp/h in 1890
@CarFreak of course they did.
On the 29th of April in 1899 Camille Jenatzy set a new record reaching 105,882 km/h. He used an EV with a
25 kw engine.
That's not exactly 60 mph in 1890 but roughly the same time and speed. By now it should be common knowledge that EVs were around before the combustion engines took over.
This must have been designed by my highschool physics teacher, because it assumes no friction or thermal expansion.
A piston engine has tight tolerances and can tolerate thermal expansion
Tight tolerances does not mean "assumes no friction or thermal expansion". Thermal expansion can be calculated and tested so when operating the tolerances are perfect. F1 cars for example can only run their engines AT operating temps, when they cool down the pistons seize inside the engine. Now F1 cars need their engines pre-heated before starting which is fine for F1 performance but not for common consumer needs, so you relax the tolerances to significantly increase convenience and lower costs. This engine design looks pretty smart to me and will run with normal (calculated) thermal expansion.
You haven't watched the video properly and are happy to make an incorrect claim based on a false assumption on your part.
Those only exist is reality bruh, this is a computer graphic
@@ApprenticeGM yeah my friend has one and needs to use a block heater. It's in his truck though,but it hauls but
@@jimjab3631 Yes, I know, but the design does cater for thermal expansion despite the OP's misguided claim.
This is incredible theoretically, I can't wait to see the practical application!
"Air doesn't have enough time to leak when running." 🤣
The engine has a very small surface or "piston" for the burning fuel to act on. As engine RPM increases, the amount of force the deflagrating fuel can exert on this "piston" greatly decreases. I am incapable of doing the math, but at 25k RPM the engine would be nearly outrunning the propegating flame front, resulting in low torque at that speed. I am sure it can reach 25k RPM, but then speed might reduce until equilibrium is met at peak power/ peak RPM. Just food for though. I have only seen a very brief video of this engine operating, and it was not at "full chat" as it were.
Consider the flame propagation of Hydrogen, not liquid or vapor fuel.
@@gecsus a fair point.
Far cleaner and better than toxic battery crap junk cars!. That can only go a hour or two!
@@alk315 all the bean counters who makes cars doesn't care about this. It's the way much more cheaper to develop any elec, then develop a nice ICE that mets all emission rules. Unfortunately the elecs will be 'the future'... At least until 'they' discover how millions elecs being charged will overload any electrical system.
@@alk315 tell me you live in a cave , without telling me you live in a cave .
So far you have a picture and an idea. Let me know when and if there is ever a working model!
Curious how your engine is coming along? Oh that's right..
@@rodgazinya you'd need a water tanker behind to use hydrogen power
@Phone Tracker
New and or improved technology(*) is available or will be that allows one to use hydrogen just as you would gas/diesel etc.
* safe storage tank technology
Note: You'll never see battery powered Boeing 777's etc.
I would love to see this engine in production testing!
It all sounds good on paper, but a dynamic system rotating at 25krpm will cause an enormous amount ofmechanical stress and secondary thermal stress which will be the Achilles heel for maintaining adequate fatigue damage.
Yeah, thinking about this I'm inclined to agree. Piston driven ICE is commercially successful because ultimately it's pretty forgiving. The materials required to produce & repair may add yet another demand for rare earth metals that is already nearing catastrophe both politically and environmentally.
@@invictusaeternum Until asteroid mining gets rolling. Once shipments are ore start falling towards Earth from the Asteroid belt, we're going to have more material than we know what to do with.
And this is ignoring Earths own halo of asteroids at the lagrange points. We're close to a revolution.
@@haydentravis3348 Your optimism is beautiful. I sincerely hope we find a satisfactory answer to the "we have problems here on Earth crowd" so we can make your dream a reality. Know that you are not alone in your hunger for exploration and expansion. We'll get there. Inshallah.
The sooting would be astronomical
Silicon nitride rotors
I think this is vaporware: concept only and no working engine. If it was to have extremely tight tolerances it would seize up as it gets up to temperature as the metal expands. There would also be a lot of friction on the rotor side walls, & you have to use a very hard materials to make engine wear tolerable.
No, it's way beyond vapourware! It's clearly passed beer-coaster-ware, whiteboard-ware and now cad-animation-ware :-)
Didn't Formula One engineers figure out that something like 18,000 rpms the valves don't have time to open and close and will basically just flutter?
not exactly, when it expands everything expands, tolerance seal can be found in a fair chunk of firearms, especially extremely reliable ones, is what your saying a possible issue, definitely. is it one that can be worked around given existing techniques, again, definitely
I say this and I have absolutely zero hopes of this Engine actually being real
That's what I just said. They need to come back when they have a functioning prototype.
Isn't it basically like a rotary engine?
The idea behind having seals that fail is so the actual block or component isn't the part that fails. I'd rather have to replace a seal than my new fancy hydrogen case.
@@autogyro333 yes, that and prevent leaks.
@@autogyro333 Things like that are called "sacrificial components" and are designed to be the weak link in a mechanism to protect more critical parts. It's important to remember when designing mechanisms that there is **always** a weakest link. It's better to have that weak link be cheap, accessible, and not take out other things when it fails, such as a gearset grenading inside a housing for instance heh
@@autogyro333 No, the *real* idea behind having apex seals is to seal the chamber and give the engine compression. They are like piston rings on a regular reciprocating engine.
@Fox Mulder The video says it can skip firings, but it doesn’t say it always skips …in fact it seems to say that at full power it ignites on every cycle. I think you might want to watch the video again.
@Fox Mulder That is marketing nonsense. This whole thing is either a scam to fool investors or some dreamy student project.
Like your enthusiasm!
Love the direction
These “tight tolerances” would be insane. Keep in mind the cost is exponential for tolerances
Also with no seals, how long would it take for that tolerance to become too big, i cant imagine it would be very long
@@Arrica101 nah it would burn up the fine edges on the sealing surface.
@@Arrica101 Imagine what happens to those .0001 tolerances in winter,,, At that tight of tolerance I think temperatures will start to screw with operation of the engine.
This is designed by an aerospace company. It would run on Hydrogen, and seems to be aimed at small size and light weight. Given all of that I'm guessing the plan is to generate auxiliary power on an upper stage of a rocket using hydrogen that would otherwise boil off and be vented to space. If this is so then maybe it could work. I don't think it's ment to be a car engine.
Heat cycles would be insane especially on 25k rpm. If this is an aluminum motor it would expand past the point of it being safe. Needing no seals isn't going to save the motor when heat makes a .1 tolerance .5 or higher without a gasket.
Seals are a good thing. When metal heats it expands, clearances change, so sealing stops working if seals aren't present. IF that could be resolved, the efficiency would be low. The reason for this is there is a lot of metal (very cold in comparison to the flame) in contact with the combustion space. Ideally you want to minimize the chamber surface area to the volume of gas you have. So you'd try to capture the expanding gas in an expanding sphere - or as close to that as possible. This is one main reason the standard rotary struggles with fuel efficiency. The closest we have to this ideal expansion is a regular piston/cylinder.
Yes I don't know how it would eliminate "all losses". That being said there's a lot of armchair engineers in the comments. In reality the design team with the actual design only knows the limitations and flaws that need to be reworked.
@@fresh_dood I'm not even sure there is a running model? If this is the case, the design team would have no idea on its limitations? I know some designers that could draw up a beautiful looking rocket, but I guarantee it would never make it to the moon.
Someone familiar with engine design who doesn't know that specific engine intimately can spot a lot of its shortcomings, and be accurate.
Ralph Sarich with his orbital engine discovered the issue his and many other rotary designs have by the high chamber surface area/combustion volume ratio leading to inefficiency.
Personally, I've studied alternate engines and been hired as a consultant engineer on the design aspects and improvement of novel engine designs over the last 20 years.
@@brendontait6968 There is a running model. Kudos to you on your qualifications, but part of being wise is being humble. You don't get the full story from one video and certainly don't know much more than the team working on the design itself.
@@fresh_dood - The FIRST STEP of something being revolutionary, is showing that it works... Lithium Sulfur batteries have something about 4 times the energy density of Lithium batteries, and this is very old, like 40 years old... why it was not revolutionary? because mechanical limitations... when Sulfur absorbs lithium, the volume expands 80%... its EXTREMELY HARD to make a METAL BALLOON that can inflate hundreds of times maintaining structural integrity.....
.
"part of being wise is being humble", stupid thinking for stupid snowflake people dont get offended or feel stupid because of ignorance, the person can be arrogant as fuck, if he knows a LOT of something that i dont know, i dont care about being humble, i care about the information.
.
People that put Feeling before knowledge, are the same people that dont care much about being True or Correct.
.
Intelligent people NEED to act humble, because dumb people have influence and power of the state, and its not fun going to jail because people LIED about you because they got feelings hurt.
This is why you’d make it out of industrial ceramics, though that field needs a few more years to mature I believe
Incredible concept inspiring new conceptual design.
This sounds really cool, would love to see this in person
It seems to work in a similar way to a gas turbine. The air is compressed away from the combustion chamber, by the 'gears' instead of an dynamic compressor. Then if I see it correctly after ignition it passes through the energy recovery gears instead of a turbine. Anything is worth a try, naysayers would have stopped every idea ever made.
@Andy Bush , One of the many advantages of gas turbine engines is the very high power to weight ratios they develop. Another advantage is the rotary - non-reciprocating motion they operate with.... This design appears to involve two drums located very close to each other rotating at the same rpm's that are synchronized with large diameter spur gears. One of the drums seems to have a single depression while the other has a single node to fill that depression. It seems like both the compression chamber and the power development chamber have these single nodes and depressions to complete a combustion cycle. My questions are; how is the compressed air fuel mix ignited, how is the high pressure gas directed to the power chamber, are there more than a single set of depressions & nodes to displace the gas's on the compression and power chambers, and how are the high pressure gas's kept from traveling back through the air intake passage?
A dynamic...
Fr, this is just a less efficient turbine as it captures less of the exhaust energy.
If you make this engine mote efficient it becomes a gas turbine. Add more gears behind it to capture more, ditch the top and just place in some static fins and boom, gas turbine.
@@daslynnter9841 Yes but hopefully not 'boom' though lol.
@@andyrbush lol fair enough
Good job on the graphics, I know how much work goes into that and it usually goes unnoticed
ua-cam.com/video/gi7IOXQ7oyo/v-deo.html
Where the graphics came from.
Yeah, more work than into a working prototype!
Screw the graphics; where's the sample?
Agreed. I spent 6 hours today on a mounting block fixture for a machine at work. Definitely a lot of hours in this model... unfortunately nobody did any math during the early phases of design so the whole idea is rubbish.
Ever since the dawn of the internet, I've seen tons of new engine designs..........one time..........animated............and then never heard another word about them. The rotary is the only one that made it and it was mostly rejected by consumers. I'm still very hopeful; I just don't get excited like I used to. Thanks for posting. This would make an amazing motorcycle engine.
Need to get this out! In every car crazy 🤩 amazing
Kawasaki is testing hydrogen powered combustion engines in motorcycles and ATV 's with zero emissions right now, and just launched its first hydrogen powered ship
All options should be explored - Well done !
I agree
I have never been on the electric bandwagon , this sounds much better !
These things are great... in the lab. I see no path forward for consumer-level power plants based on this design. Problems of tolerance, lubrication and cost of base materials which would not be standard aluminum or steel. Maybe someone wants to build a 4-rotor stack for $250,000 for some exotic or race car.
What if u give it lil less tight tolerance then put seals on it or something
It looks more like a potential alternative for turbine engines for things like helicopters and turboprobs, assuming you can get these engines running and to be atleast as reliable and mature.
If you can meet all these criteria, GREAT. But only time will tell.
I'm curious how this would actually sound like, probably somewhere between a wankel and a jet engine.
ur funny
yeah this would function best as a generator
Well... who could afford the first mercedes?
The simple solution is to use conventional piston engines running on ‘natural gas/ propane’. Readily available, almost no refining required ,burns extremely clean (used on forklifts running indoors safely for 60 yrs+). It used conventional engine technologies, no retooling required .
10% less power from propane is easily compensated for by eliminating losses from complex emission controls , catalytic converters etc used on gasoline engines.
Many countries have been using this for over 40 years with filling stations , well proven systems , most conventional cars can even be converted for low cost. So why not?
Cheers Warren
Because natural gas is non-renewable
The pessimists reason: natural gas as a fuel is too just dangerous for every current driver.
If we put every Joe "try enough times and you'll get a licence" on top of a pressurized canister going 100 miles per hour we'll see hollywood style car crash explosions.
@@DiakosDelvin this is better than my reason
The extraction of natural gas is a horrifyingly unclean process. The sooner we abandon *all* fossil fuels, the better off we'll be.
And then one day we don't have any gases anymore and we uses horses again?
Great concept, reality is another story on its own
Interesting concept
Can't wait to hear thunderfoot's thoughts on this engine :D
It's called: The HYPERengine! Presented to you by our savior Elon Musk!
I would like to see his feedback as well. This might be legit, or not... I'm not an expert.
Weird how all these new amazing engines never come into production
Hydrogen is for drinking water 🌊 not ⛽ fuel
Because they're laughably impossible compared to simple combustion engines we have today.
Usually, gas companies are to blame.
@@dankllamas6984 Those darn gas companies, giving me lumbago and making my wife leave me.
@@eugene7518 how does crack feel?
I love this makes me feel hope for this world.
100% we need more ICE innovation like this and also in piston engines
as an auto mechanic myself i have some questions.if tolerances are so tight that it does not need seals then i think thermal issues come into play. how hot does this engine get running on hydrogen?if it is air cooled than perhaps about the same as a motor in a old vw bug?
i am wondering if they have made any yet for testing and if the results are available because it just seems to me that such a motor with no seals will end up leaking oil fairly quickly.
heat will cause engine parts to expand and contract as they cool and this is likely to throw those tolerances out the window in a short time. my thought is 10-25k miles before it starts leaking oil. what happens if it leaks hydrogen from the combustion chamber?
just some thoughts here ,folks!
@hellshade2, yea I think it's always good to investigate new ideas/methods but some things really aren't very practical, others impossible, at least at given moments in time. The first thing I thought of was, what would it cost to build/purchase/insure, maintain, replace?? As generally everything tends to wear/breakdown at some point. The fact that it spins up to ~25K revolutions, well turbochargers can do this "cruising", lol. I mean that by the fact that some turbochargers can reach 100K+ rpms... Granted they're not exactly "engines" as they are "compressors" but they still possess seals & require proper lubrication and maintenance. And given that they're only a "component" of the system and not the sole component, YET they're still quite expensive to replace, there is no telling how much that "piston-free hydrogen engine" would cost. Some vehicle manufacturers are even integrating the turbocharger(s) into the cylinder head etc., so it becomes one unit. So if the TC is "toast", you have to purchase a whole new cylinder head with it. x_x
I am also more concerned about the use of "hydrogen" as a fuel as some others have mentioned. I know there are some "test vehicles" on the road so-to-speak but it's clearly not widespread. I'd be concerned about large-scale production of such vehicles, the safety of refilling hydrogen tanks as well as the potential for the breakdown of components over time which could lead to a fire/explosion hazard. The same is the case with hydrogen powered vehicles in various accident scenarios. After all average combustion engine vehicles can suffer fires/explosions, even electric vehicles can, especially if components leak/corrode over time and then more so if you're in an accident. As I recall, some "Chevy Volt" crash test vehicles spontaneously caught fire after they sat outside and the coolant came in contact with some electric components corroding them.
He mentioned that it was super efficient. If it can run cool this may be possible then without seals.
It’s possibly just at prototype stage and has yet hasn’t been perfected? If it’s reliable it sounds too good to be true I think.
@Ozzie climate refo i am not sure what you mean by binding. can you explain? i do know hydrogen is explosive in a gaseous state. i have seen car batteries blow up when being charged because vents in them were blocked and a spark occured (acid batteries release hydrogen when charging)
As with so much these days, this looks like snake oil
I am going to say this will remain on the drawing board for all practical purposes. There might be a limited production run at best.
It was good knowing ya. Im sorry to hear about the car crash or heart attack you have in a few months.
I want it see this work. this sounds amazing.
Chris.
You could carry an extra one in the glovebox for emergencies. If these existed right now I'd replace my old inline 6 with one or two of these.
Love your thinking. I would gladly swap the 1.8 out of my Miata for a single one of these. Slight loss of power would be more than made up for by the weight savings 😁. A hell of a lot more appealing than any theories I've have come up with for electric conversion.
Fun fact: This was the engine Kaneda's bike used in the 1988 film 'Akira'.
"No way! Ceramic dual rotor! It even has... computer controlled anti-lock brakes!" -Tetsuo Shima
200hp at 12,000rpm!
A most excellent nod to Akira.
that exhaust rotor setup is so wacky i love it
That's Crazy stuff! 480 HP is sick!
I think the main challenge might be thermal dilatation. In order not to have a joint, you need either a lot of tight surface, or very very small space, but then, you find yourself limited in precision by the dilatation of the metal. Theoretically, the fact that the combustion chamber heats up might increase efficiency by removing heat loss, but this increases the dilatation concerns
Get with the program, Gramps. The required tolerances would be very difficult to even reach with metals. Gasoline internal combustion engines have already been built that need no rings or seals. Make a wild guess how they were built (a few decades ago).
@@mikemondano3624 the shape is very different here. The impact of dilatation is likely to be much harder to account for.
what makes you think it's metal?
If I had to build anything like this to withstand that kind of heat and stress, I'd use new ceramics. Less dilatation, higher temperature threshold.
@@strugglingengineer1465 I gotta trust you on this one. Out of my knowledge field
@@strugglingengineer1465 can such precision be achieved with ceramics? How? What kind of ceramics? Do they withstand heat gradients decently?
So basically, Astron is claiming to have found the key to defying physics?
Eliminating seals with super high tolerances, yeah maybe. 90% efficient? BS. Maybe the friction looses only account for 10%, but despite our best efforts you will lose more to heat, there's just no way around that.
And while those super tight tolerances "may" eliminate seals, the cost of machining parts like that would make it insanely expensive. And what would the time and cost between rebuilds look like as those parts wear?
Good point. Laws of thermodynamics (Carnot cycle) means you can't climb above a theoretical maximum - dependnent on combustion temperature - which I think for hydrogen is approx around 50% something+ (?).
But in reality there is no way you could ever get anywhere near even that abstract theoretical limit. Currently they run at 20 -25%. So it would be semi-miraculous tech that got to >30% ..or maybe 40%. Eitherwsy nowhere near the genuine 95%+ of electric motors
This may be great as a generator for a hybrid powertrain.
I feel there is great potential here. The "combustion chamber" design is ingenious. You may need to consider a metal/metal seal, like rings on a piston, but only some prototyping would tell.
If this was worth doing it would have already been done. That's the answer to all these "OMG NEW TECH" UA-cam videos. If the tech would work, it would exist.
@@EinBick that attitude, plus politicians and oil executives, ensure that new tech will never get tried. The concept here is sound. The design as stated will not likely work, but the concept has real potential. So do humanity a favor, contribute meaningfully, offer constructive criticism, or go away. #troll #DebbieDowner
@@nethead72 ah yes interpreting everything I seaid instead of reading it.
I never said it doesn't have potential I'm just saying if it worked it would be working. The Hydrogen Industry is booming right now do you really think they'd hold back a revolutionary engine concept like this in a time like that?
News flash: 90% of all concepts get scrapped because there is a major flaw in there. And it is because of that why we have years and years of development in new Technology.
And yes political lobbies play a huge part in the lack of innovation in the last couple years but that's mainly in the US. Look to china or India. They're innovating every day. Even European countries have a bunch of new tech that gets debuted all the time. The main culprit at the moment is the US. You just had a supreme court decision that goes against any and all logical thinking.
So please before you call anyone a troll... Clean up your own backyard.
@@EinBick Not to get off topic but how is removing federal control and giving power to each state to make laws around abortion going against logical thinking lmao? Would pro choice people really prefer 1 entity deciding what can and cannot be done with women's bodies?
@@Ekrooool I'm talking about the environmental decision.
Also I would prefer if women could do whatever they want with their bodies. Unlike you I don't want to control others. Small government and stuff.
Sounds intriguing. Hope they can design it for practical use which means satisfying potential customers that it will work as expected, have a reasonable lifetime and not be excessively expensive.
Your comment is exactly correct.
Thank you!
As a machinist in the industrial seal market, we make parts with tolerances of .001" or less. You OFTEN run into problems with the material warping up to .005". Tolerances can't be made on a 3D printer that tight. I can't imagine they will be made manually and I'd love to see the CNC that can make that. Even with the advanced probes these days there would be material issues. Not to mention the price point to produce such an item would put it out of reach from the public.
How are the parts made? And with tolerances basically zero and clearance that would have to be almost none between parts, how is it even put together?
New technology does seem hard to believe
Another machinist here. This is a constant battle in real life. Theory and reality are 2 totally different things and those who don't know don't know. Materials move as they are machined in only semi predictable ways which makes tight tolerances difficult. Thermal response to the very act of machining makes tight tolerances difficult. Thermal response to just running the CNC machine makes tight tolerances difficult. Now add in calibration and verification of probes, ball screws, inspection equipment etc etc etc and tight tolerances are even more difficult.
In short, of you plan on having tight tolerances save your ass as an engineer be prepared for one of 2 things, disappointment or an extremely expensive product.
I love comments based in reality. Thanks. I wonder how many suckers they got to invest in this.
@@mikelang4191 the old AM/FM problem.
funny you say that but you do realize that old triumph motorcycles was made so well you could put them together with no seals and still run for years and thats with 1940s -1960s tech look it up im not joking
This is a supercool idea
Great engine for a small plane!
Very interesting, , , I'm in R&D of electric propulsion systems for sail boats but I have a finger in the pie of hydrogen too, this looks promising and I hope to see more information on it soon. I have to admit that I'm a closet petrol head ,,, long live internal combustion engines 🤣
The history of the engine is fascinating! From steam, gasifers, hit and miss, to crude oil engines. Most people don't even know that the first diesel engine was designed to run on peanut oil or that the electric car was invented before the internal combustion engine.
Here here
There is something so elegant and awesome about an engine. Especially when it's well engineered, efficient and powerful. Plus there's the "vroom vroom." 😎
@@armenvondoms1815.. but we aren't most people. 😁
@@armenvondoms1815 True... Like 120 years ago 100's of electric cars were running around cities like New York before cars powered by the internal combustion engine became popular.... But they were considered cats for little old ladies and thus uncool.
This animation has excellent performance capabilities, look how things look well animated
I believe that a water/methanol injection system, properly sized would be of significant value to this rather impressive engine.
One positive benefit would undoubtedly be the total elimination of nitric oxide
Great if it gets built, but I feel that either the big auto manufacturers will buy the rights and shelve it or it will be too expensive to build to make it a viable alternative power source. It’s a terrific idea in principle, but I won’t hold my breath.
Hope that doesn't happen. I'm a firm believer in internal combustion engines for cars and trucks. Retrofitting older cars with better engines is the way forward.
With today's tech the machining cost would be lower as would cost of assembly due to the reduction of parts, while super tight tolerances are achievable even is mass production. The modular design also adds to cost saving platforms. The only reason to not see further development would be for manufacturers to "toe the line" with governments drive for full EV.
They WILL bury it. Not an if, but WHEN.
@@IDontWantAHandle101 It’s not. Fully electric will always remain far more efficient.
If it's too good, it won't be allowed to happen. Big auto makers will make sure it won't. Sounds like it might be a good idea.
Aside from the tolerance issues mentioned by others, I'd be interested in seeing the expected torque curve for something with a 24k rpm operating window.
The rpm floor is probably pretty high, if it's going to skip fire under low load
Most likely, the curve will start around 9k rpm and flatten out around 21k. Idle will probably be around 4-5k.
All I want to know is if I can fit a screaming dump valve on it...
@@TheDustyShredder So even geared low it will suck for real world driving; basically equivalent to idling a normal engine at 2000 rpm. Very cool design but very limited in applications. The future is electric and even if hydrogen has a place it is very likely better to run it through a fuel cell and drive with the motor technology as everything else than make a complicated niche tech. Whats the use case
with high rpm and tight tolerances this engine, if it worked perfectly, wouldnt work well for very long and it would wear itself out very quickly. cant be repaired without a full engine rebuild. more trash.
Love the idea.... now build one! Everything on the Astron site says it is "expected to".
Amazing. Yes I would even invest in this engine. Definitely the future of internal combustion which I feel has a future.. especially with developments like this.
Been in love with the idea of hydrogen powered engine for years! Super exciting stuff!
you are going to die, your kids will die, maybe your grandchildren will die without seeing such engine
until you get into a crash
@@ChaosMachina2022 Gasoline is explosive too
@@ChaosMachina2022 still better option than electric cars
@@AJ-Palermo gasoline is NOT explosive. you watch too many american movies.
Say it with me now:
"If this thing was so great, we'd have a functioning prototype and not just a 3D animation"
Right. I guess you never heard about Stanley Meyer. Please go back to face book and hang out with the other NPC's.
@Mikaela With a response like that, you sound like you belong there.
@Mikaela You make no sense. Proof of NPC. Fucking bril.
Ooo too edgy 4 me
Right because Davinci doesn’t exist
THAT LOOKS SWEET ....
Hope I’m still alive to see this mass produced . I still marvel at the development of the the piston engine .
I'm highly dubious of a design that simultaneously relies on tight engineering tolerances for maintaining compression and also runs on the smallest element there is.
Also leaks if not running on high RPM. So fine for cruising - useless for real world stop and go.
Uhm... you think a hydrogen atom is "smaller" than other atoms? I don't mean that literally... we all know about atomic mass and volumes, but you think THAT is why this won't seal? Pick any standard hydrocarbon molecule and you're still talking about just a few angstroms. You believe that "tight tolerance" machining is measured in angstroms??? Oy Vey!
@@DiffEQ Van der Vaals Radius (closest distance between two atoms) is a complicated and incomplete field of research, but atoms with higher orbitals populated, (especially if they are not completely filled) tend to have higher distances denoted. And especially considering the fact carbohydrates in normal gasoline are relatively long chains (8-16 carbon atoms, with hydrogen in between and around, not linear, look up pictures, it's hard to describe) and are usually dispersed into miniscule droplets (still made of multiple molecules) instead of vaporised (only in a gas are the molecules unbounded) and hydrogen is present as two tiny (110/120 pm instead of 170pm for carbon) and close together atoms in an H2 molecule, it is definitely realistic (and actually a problem in scientific experiments) that hydrogen (and also helium) tend to even seep through air tight seals.
@@Momi_V hydrogen will diffuse out of tanks and storage lines. This is not an issue with an engine running at 25,000 rpm. The engine is using so much fuel so quickly that the hydrogen won't be diffusing out of the engine. I'd be more worried about the hydrogen diffusing out of the storage tank.
Another problem is the hydrogen making the metal brittle over time
I see the insane advancements in electric motors making current combustion engine technology almost obsolete. But in doing so, I foresee insane advancements in the combustion engine technology to keep up with the EV world's advancements. Combustion still has a lot of potential to unleash. S/O to the SA guys!
obsolete? 😂 maybe once they figure out how to make better batteries. i’m excited to see if the nuclear diamond battery will actually become a thing
electric motors aren't getting much better - they've been more or less perfected decades ago. the thing that's been improving that made EVs viable is the batteries
So your saying that ICE engines wouldn't progress without the threat of electric motors? That the auto industry has been giving us the finger for last 50 years? OK I'm with you. 🙂
Aircraft , motorcycles , boats , etc looks good .
Excellent video my brother 👍 time to do some research
That is why I advocate in Formula 1 to have an emission and/or fuel quantity limit and leave the engineers do their bit with everything else. Total freedom to chase "cheap performance" can really drive technical advancements.
Wow, yes what if??
Yup I agree. Most engine advancements come from F1 cars
exactly and look ad the advancements that were made during the golden era when f1 had few restrictions / limitations you got crazy concepts like the elf 6 wheeler that had basically a vacuum to suck the car onto the track
@@gregdunn401 exactly. FIA can limit performance simply limiting fuel consumption/emissions. As per raceability I still think that ballasts are the best way to level up performances.
Not to mention the hydrogen fuel tank that has to store the gas at 5,000-10,000 psi and the costs associated with certifying the tank every few years. Conversely, propane is stored at about 200 psi. "High torque" is a relative term with no definition. To make this engine useful in a car, it would have to be geared down by about 8:1 ratio which might raise a low torque engine to a high enough value to be useful. A lot of concepts look good in computer animations but fail in actual practice.
What about propane?
FedEx uses that
@@wesss9353 It's a common fuel in Europe, you can convert any gasoline engine to run on LPG.
@@wtfiswiththosehandles hydrogen better than propane?
Fork lifts uses 40 lbs as fuel
Hydrogen fuel tanks are trivial. Never understood why people make a thing about it - they're a thing, they're safe, get over it. The practical issue is this engine is nonsense.
Store the hydrogen as water 💧
This is basically a periodic gas turbine. Intake and compress air with the first section and then compress, ignite, and extract energy in the next. Pretty neat.
And yeah, being able to turn without igniting is critical. Gotta maintain engine speed to keep up the dynamic seal. And since cruising usually takes a very small amount of power that is hard to get efficiently in a larger engine without skipping strokes.
Pretty cool, would like to see it applied and tested.
When I look at this I think about connecting this to a generator and then using electric engines to power the vehicle, depending on energy requirement you could stack. Add a small battery pack, which gives you extra distance in case of emergency, just to name a few. So much new technology is coming out these days which could move us towards using less fosil fuel.
Hydrogen isnt a fossil fuel
@@nonofyourbusiness7631 you are 100% correct
Wouldn't it be more efficient to essentially cause a redox reaction and turn the hydrogen into electricity directly?
Dont be a Joe Byden! The senile fool from hell that turns everything into shit.
@Mike so if you build the system with a surplus of energy generation, you can use part to run the vehicle, part to recharge the battery and the rest to generate hydrogen.
I like how the revolving mass negates reciprocal counter force..
I am a sceptic about the (no seals) when combustion is involved.
Maybe they can have two opposing engines that somehow counter seal each other via pressure.
No seals on a turbine and they get way higher compression than any piston. This really runs like a cowled Pelton Turbine with one blade. The compression can happen without seals, many 2 strokes do that. Much air is lost but some of it can't move out fast enough so it gets compressed even enough for detonation without a spark plug. Cox TD engines worked like that and they ran on Nitromethane. My concern is balance, it better be perfect or it will fly apart but that is achievable.
@@anthonyb5279 10:1 pressure ratio is not the same as 10:1 compression ration, it's alot less
@@ValentineC137 UMMMM so? whats your point?
@@anthonyb5279 didn't even bother to read your entire comment because it just seemed wrong, but just so you know 2-strokes do have seals.
But my point is that you shouldn't randomly splurge incorrect information like that while acting as if you know what you're saying.
Rather than computer animation, a fully built project actually speaks more
i was kinda hoping for footage of it running in real life but it sounds like something that could be pretty dope
Never been a fan of electric. This is amazing.
Maybe this will come to production and help kill ev's? What do you not like about ev's brother?
nobody wondered if La J was a fan of electric, this isn't about you
Main concerns:
Tight tolerances means exponentially higher production cost and greater loss should something fail.
Being an entirely new platform, manufacturers will struggle more to see the cost/benefit quickly and I fear it may fall behind other faster developing alternatives (like electric).
No real world proof of concept means that it is still far into the future, again potentially rendering it obsolete in 5 years or so when alternatives are forced to the market.
My wishes: That the tolerances are manufacturable and reliable, and cost overall can be kept low due to simplicity - also giving better power-per-volume proposals for Hydrogen, which has so far been one of its lackluster statistics in existing automotive applications of the fuel source.
This engine type would be ideal for motorcycles, where power to weight means everything, and having naturally counter-rotating internals would eliminate gyroscopic side effects and remove the need to manufacture artificial counterbalancing (and thus remove cost). Also size means easier packaging which overall would lower build cost in general, and having a hydrogen powered motorcycle could introduce the gateway between existing and future green motorcycles that historically have been unsuccessful so far.
I want to see this project providing real life data, not just theoretical CAD analytics.
Cummings developed a working hydrogen engine last year (2021).
@Deaddoc Really Deaddoc,
Hydrogen motors have been around since the 70's. It's all about making hydrogen safe in vehicles. Very difficult
OT. Interesting design but that's pretty much it. I'll need some lab testing numbers on power curves, where the torque peak is and rpm at 55 mph, durability, easy of maintaining and unit cost. Then I'll look at it more seriously. Theory doesn't mean practical. 😉
it is a modified Helicopter's main rotor engine, they use 4 of these units, light weight, super efficiency will often mean that it has been around for about 20 years already and being used by the military.
@@walterroche8192 it is a modified Helicopter's main rotor engine, they use 4 of these units, light weight, super efficiency will often mean that it has been around for about 20 years already and being used by the military.
WeNeedHydrogenResonanceTech4cheapHydrogen.
oh man this looks aweso-BOOOM💥
I would love to see it in production.
Any new design is worth looking into and the durability is the key
The engine may be great, but the problems of hydrogen remain. They are:
1.) Low specific energy per volume,
2.).miserable efficiency in producing it, and very low liquid temperature.
As for the engine, the combustion side is very likely to overheat. Not only that, but metal expands as it heats up and contracts when it cools down. Maintaining these high tolerances will be extremely difficult. This is a notorious problem with all air-cooled internal combustion engines, except for gas turbines.
Seems like a great motor for a series motor hybrid. Nice and light "range extender."
Been working on cars for over 20 years it's about time they come out with something like this this is the future not electricity
I think electric vehicles are just a stepping stone.
Once people stop being stupid and realize electric is just as bad, if not worse, they'll make real progress on whatever is next.
160hp at nearly 25k rpm is cool, but the power band is probably really high in the rev range, and you will need to design an entirely new transmission for this. That torque number has me skeptical as well.
Perhaps a planetary gear system reducing the high rpm prior to the transmission? That would cause a lot of frictional power loss though. Idk They probably build transmissions suitable for this kind of stuff.
Planetary or a buttload of reduction gearing. The trans would look like a swiss clock
If you're going to take advantage of the feature which allows reducing power by skipping firing cycles, that means keeping it at 25K RPM, even at low power. A conventional transmission wouldn't work. If this thing is ever developed, they'll undoubtedly use it in a hybrid system which generates power with the engine, but manages getting it to the wheels with inverters and AC motors.
Or you could just feed it straight into a generator... and an electric drive train like a locomotive. Honestly that's probably the correct answer for such an engine...
@@Wingnut353 That was done with the fisker karma. I don't think it worked very well.
Nice idea. I'd love to see very small combustion engines with a 20kW output to be used as range extenders in otherwise fully battery electric vehicles.
Ive been in the process of designing an engine for this future. This company destroyed my stats. I originally thought a similar concept impossible, and so disregarded the idea. But this company found an ingenious solution. Many props.
Because it is ..they can't make it work outside a computer simulation
What's that solution?
I cant imagine having an electric motorbike. Part of the appeal of having a combustion engine is the noise it makes 😍
That is a great great design, but have they made one?
I've read some of the comments and as a former machinist I agree with many. Seals are easy to replace.
Holding tolerances of .0001 is possible and I've done that for Aero space and the DOD. But it takes time and time is money.
ua-cam.com/video/Q-tyYqGM8QA/v-deo.html
Tight tolerances equals very high maintenance. Any metal on metal wear rapidly breaks down the power generated and rapidly allows the engine to leak fluids or gases.
A engine that eliminates seals to reduce drag usually cant handle drag so mounting it to a transmission isnt plausible.
Lol
edgar eger made a prototype
money money money money. That's why we wont progress in society. We think things have "value", when in reality it was all free to begin with. How many times do we have to fail before we realize our errors. Do you know the definition of insanity?
The MYT-6 engine weighs only 11.4 kg and can produce 200 to 800 horsepower and can do so using biodiesel.
Proof? Link?
🤨🧐🙄😜🤪😅😂🤣
yeah thats another one for the believe it when i see it pile. all i found looking it up was a single very vague article about it, a 3d model, and a short paragraph from the company about how they made great advancements in recent times yada yada
Which is WHY it will NEVER see production. It could overtake all others, and monied interests won't allow that.
Exactly like this video then 😂
I Like what, I see. Hope for mankind after all. Excellent video Thanks
Very very good engine
Technically the tolerance is the seal. I always wondered why a screw supercharger couldn’t be used in a similar fashion. Basically a crude turbine.