Upgrading the MK3 with genuine HIWIN linear rails: Worth it?

Поділитися
Вставка
  • Опубліковано 11 лис 2019
  • The MK3 is a really easy platform to upgrade - but does it need a 200€ HIWIN linear rail kit?
    Click skl.sh/tomsanladerer7 to get 2 months of Skillshare for FREE!
    Linear Rail Kit from Watterott: shop.watterott.com/Y-axis-upg...
    Prusa MK3: toms3d.org/MK3Kit
    Happy planter models by Flowalistik www.prusaprinters.org/prints/...
    Read the article to this video here: toms3d.org/2019/12/06/prusa-y...
    Product links are affiliate links - I may earn a commission on qualifying purchases (at no extra cost to you)
    🎥 All my video gear toms3d.org/my-gear
    I use Epidemic Sound, sign up for a 30-day free trial here share.epidemicsound.com/MadeWi...
    🎧 Check out the Meltzone Podcast (with CNC Kitchen)! / @themeltzone
    👐 Enjoying the videos? Support my work on Patreon! / toms3dp
  • Наука та технологія

КОМЕНТАРІ • 541

  • @willyminime
    @willyminime 4 роки тому +1073

    Hello Thomas,
    I build industrial automation as my daily job.
    This automations have a lot of rails, and the right way to calibrate them is a bit different as you did.
    Ill try to make an accurate step by step guide.
    1- First you put the rails in and the blocks (as you did)
    2- Tighten the rail with 2 blocks making sure it is square to the X axis
    3- Tighten the blocks on the fixed rail.
    4- Place the carriage to one limit, and tighten the othe rail, but just on this limit side.
    5- Slide the carriage to the othe side and tighten this side of the rail.
    6- Tighten the remainig block.
    7- Now you have to loosen the blocks one by one and tighten them again. Ma ke sure to have only one block loose at the time.
    8- Check for unwanted friction, if there is any start all over again.
    Protips: Never use power tools for this applications, they can shift parts around (even blocks that weigh 1kg)
    You don't have to be super gentle with this stuff, being industrial they are pretty hardcore (but don't drop them)
    and for last, if you follow all my steps and you can't go away some little noise remember that the rails can bent some times. The only way to make them straight is to fix every hole on a machined plane.
    Hope this was helpfull :D

    • @CalvinoBear
      @CalvinoBear 4 роки тому +8

      willyminime good post 😁

    • @achannelhasnoname5182
      @achannelhasnoname5182 4 роки тому +6

      Great advise!

    • @ChiralSymmetry
      @ChiralSymmetry 4 роки тому +22

      For newbies like myself, there are UA-cam videos from bearing and motion-control companies that are demos of the described "proper" procedures for installing and aligning bearings. Thanks for the instructions!

    • @dadsfriendlyrobotcompany
      @dadsfriendlyrobotcompany 4 роки тому +24

      Can confirm, this is similar to what we do at DMG MORI to our machines

    • @devalopr
      @devalopr 4 роки тому +12

      @Thomas Sanladerer Pin this! This is very important!!!

  • @scifactorial5802
    @scifactorial5802 4 роки тому +593

    "pulls out high precision rails"
    "tightens with a power tool"
    oh boy..

    • @JeffDM
      @JeffDM 4 роки тому +20

      I seem to hear the clutch mechanism clicking, which is pretty decent on the Bosch drivers.

    • @scifactorial5802
      @scifactorial5802 4 роки тому +57

      @@JeffDM I agree but my main concern is not over torquing. You lose a lot of feeling for how things are falling in place.
      Tighten a bolt a little bit, check, align, tighten another one, adjust until everything falls in to place slowly and smoothly.
      Thomas went for the AvE approach which might not be the best with precision machinery.

    • @MadeWithLayers
      @MadeWithLayers  4 роки тому +48

      I've had the clutch on setting "3" almost the entire time - which I fund to be extremely consistent for mid/light tightening of M3.

    • @d7588
      @d7588 4 роки тому +87

      @@MadeWithLayers But it is not, despite it being a torque limiter clutch, it still has enough mass to be equivalent to a mini impact wrench for a precision component that can throw off alignment. Would you like someone to build your 5axis CNC machine with an impact wrench?

    • @chargv
      @chargv 4 роки тому +45

      Spent the whole video just wishing he grabed a plain old screwdriver! After I heard the price for these linear rails, it made me even more unease!

  • @JonathanKayne
    @JonathanKayne 4 роки тому +255

    I was pretty sure that Josef Prusa said in an interview that they found that using other methods such as linear rails had no affect on print quality, so I guess it's good to know that he was correct

    • @Arnipll
      @Arnipll 4 роки тому +56

      @Jazz Josef also said "we dont need 32 bit boards" :D

    • @RobNisters
      @RobNisters 4 роки тому +59

      @@Arnipll Bill Gates said: "640K is more memory than anyone will ever need on a computer."

    • @moracabanas
      @moracabanas 4 роки тому +3

      Oh boi, suck a spoiler there

    • @Krytern
      @Krytern 4 роки тому +6

      @@RobNisters That has never actually been proven.

    • @victortitov1740
      @victortitov1740 4 роки тому +5

      I think that the way the printer is designed to use the guides is very clever. As Tom noticed, the original design is just constrained, and well constrained. With rails, it becomes overconstrained. That is unlikely to improve precision, but is very likely to increase friction, which can lead to decreased precision.

  • @brendanfennell9592
    @brendanfennell9592 4 роки тому +81

    Hi Tom, love your videos. When you're talking about difficult to see artifacts on the prints it would be immensely helpful to have some b-roll with something like a macro lense up close on the part so we can see too. In this video, I feel like I'm mostly just talking your word on all of the artifacting instead of seeing it myself. Still a good video though, looking forward to more.

  • @Skooteh
    @Skooteh 4 роки тому +10

    the primary reason hiwin or other square profile linear guides are more rigid is because it can be mounted directly to a subframe and not just at each end (also things like preload but you probably want to avoid that in a printer). By mounting it only at each end it acts like a leaf spring when loaded in the middle of the guide.

  • @JasonOfTGA
    @JasonOfTGA 4 роки тому +6

    Using those Linear rails, in an industrial manufacturing plant setting, we used to very tightly rubber shockmount those carriages [Just a thin rubber gasket really]. In our cases, over 1 metre length rails, without the rubber mount the rails would bind, and resonances would be setup through the rigid chassis and moving tool head. With them the rails would more or less self align, and run extremely smoothly.

  • @YunFuriku
    @YunFuriku 4 роки тому +1

    Nice to see upgrade videos still coming for MK3 with the mini coming soon !

  • @sxty8goats
    @sxty8goats 4 роки тому +4

    I build machinery as part of my job. When we are using a pair of linear rails, we align and lock down one rail. The lock all bearings to the platen. This will align the rails to each other. Then we tighten down the other rail.

  • @printingotb521
    @printingotb521 4 роки тому +7

    Pro tip:
    Use a guitar tuner (or app) on the belt before and after to make sure you get the same tension.
    Also, use silk PLA or shiny PLA to make ringing artefacts more visible. Black PLA printed hot also shows artefacts more.

  • @Spaventacorvi
    @Spaventacorvi 4 роки тому +116

    1:12 If it's hard to show on camera just take a picture.

    • @anthonyrich1592
      @anthonyrich1592 4 роки тому +2

      Yep, macro cameras work well. I still have a Konica Minolta dImage Z5 that I use for macro work down to 2mm - it's perfect for examining individual pixels of LCD screens. The Ipevo V4K USB document camera is surprisingly good, too, though I haven't explored it completely yet.

    • @darrinbrunner6429
      @darrinbrunner6429 4 роки тому +7

      Seriously. Replace the camera man on camera two with a still camera, and the video would become much more informative.

    • @CineZoneYT
      @CineZoneYT 3 роки тому

      @@darrinbrunner6429 i think there is only some one on b cam

  • @experimental_av
    @experimental_av 4 роки тому +17

    8:00 i think the y-carriage plate is symmetrical so you can have 2 bearing right or left, you can just turn/flip the plate.
    A bit upsetting that the rails are not sitting on the aluminium profiles but instead sitting on wobbly plastic pieces.

    • @alin116
      @alin116 4 роки тому +2

      They specifically point out the orientation you should be using in the guide.

  • @patrickmaartense7772
    @patrickmaartense7772 4 роки тому +6

    thank you for this review thomas
    how is the noise level of the hiwin compared to stock on travel speeds > 100ms/s ?
    tia

  • @TimothyKNetherlands
    @TimothyKNetherlands 4 роки тому +1

    Hi Thomas,
    I study High Tech engineering, which is a continuation on Mechanical Engineering. Within this study, my specialization is Mechatronic system design. I'm currently doing my Master's thesis and am working on a properly constrained gantry system, which uses state of the art technology. I can not say much about it, since I intend to start a company with it, selling 3D printers and laser cutting machines.
    Basically every machine on the market nowadays uses a heavily overconstraint set-up. Having 2 cylindrical bearings perfectly aligned (functioning as a single bearing, theoretically) and having another one to cancel the rotation, already overconstraints your system by 3 (1 free translation means 5 constraints, each set has 4 constraints, totalling 8 constraints. 8-5=3). Now, doing the same for hiwin linear rails, we get a sum of 5 overconstraints (5+5=10 constraints, thus 5 overconstraints).
    What's the result of overconstraining? Not only does it introduce higher order harmonics, your system is no longer statically determined. Binding becomes more of an issue, which might not be noticeable at first or by hand, however at the microscale it's noticeable. Often relaxing a certain bearing helps, since you reduce the amount of overconstraints and thus the harmonics.
    One thing that confused me in this video is... Why do you wiggle the bed back and forth sideways, while the direction of actuation is through the centre of mass of the bed in the same direction as the bearings slide... The vibrations from the x-axis shouldn't cause much vibrations on the bed, since the frame is very stiff and its amplitude is very much degraded.
    There's one side question I have. Once I finish my product, I intend to start-up and kickstart it. What conventions do you usually go to in Europe?
    Keep up the good work!

  • @BenVanDenBroeck
    @BenVanDenBroeck 4 роки тому +6

    We see this on our clients that buy Raise3D units, particularly engineering clients, that have an instinct to tighten every bolt. This is a mistake on the Z axis where the threaded bearings are intentionally loose to deter Z axis artifacts. They get binding as soon as it's over tightened so agreed the first one looks better for similar reasons!

  • @SebastianSchimansky
    @SebastianSchimansky 4 роки тому +2

    Would it be a good idea to use the hiwin rails only on one side to not "overconstrain" the system ?

  • @dodger0101
    @dodger0101 4 роки тому +1

    Hi Tom, one of the thing we saw in the early days of DIY 3D printing was similar artifacting. Ours was caused by really tight belts. The 2mm teeth were giving us that slight imperfection. We wanted tight belts for precision. We gave our belts 1/2 a twist so they had the smooth side rolling against the pulley/bearing. That simple fix made our prints super smooth.

    • @VladOnEarth
      @VladOnEarth 2 роки тому

      Very interesting, I actually thought of that too. Don't they skip occasionally tho?

  • @eshneto
    @eshneto 4 роки тому

    I have a DYI Prusa with several modifications. It has considerable amunts of play in the y and x axis, but always in directions perpendicular to the axis movement. So far, I am happy with the amount of ringing in the prints, nothing out of the ordinary.

  • @MrCubflyer
    @MrCubflyer 4 роки тому

    I really like your channel you have a great way of explaining things and give honest evaluations on products.

  • @ChiralSymmetry
    @ChiralSymmetry 4 роки тому +20

    As a physics major, I'm reminded of the damped harmonic oscillator (mass on a spring with friction) and the classic analysis about over-damped, critically-damped, and under-damped conditions. After increasing stiffness, maybe you can also, somehow, increase dampening and/or modify the mass of the system?
    It would be interesting to analyze a Prusa i3 with something like a vibration sensor, and then do a "proper" analysis of the ringing and then optimization to reduce it.
    Maybe a wider belt for the y-axis would increase dampening?

    • @evlsc400
      @evlsc400 4 роки тому

      perhaps giving enough 'slack' in the tension of the Y belt might help some what? I like the widening idea.

    • @MadeWithLayers
      @MadeWithLayers  4 роки тому +5

      Stefan has got you covered! ua-cam.com/video/Ws1JfHl3Y0o/v-deo.html

    • @ChiralSymmetry
      @ChiralSymmetry 4 роки тому

      Thanks Tom! Will definitely go watch Stefan's video.

    • @TD-er
      @TD-er 4 роки тому +2

      @@evlsc400 Changing the tension of the belt will only change the frequency of the belt oscillation. If you want to dampen its resonance, you need to add some spring made of a different material. For example a belt tensioner with a metal spring. Maybe not one on the belt, but as a holder of the belt wheel. Still this only reduces any resonance frequency, but it will not remove belt vibration completely.

    • @evlsc400
      @evlsc400 4 роки тому

      Gijs Noorlander so a spring loaded belt tensioner? If those exist I’ll test them this weekend.

  • @Bugstoon
    @Bugstoon 4 роки тому +1

    Hey Tom, thanks for this tryout! I'm now glad with my original bearings and the little space they have. So my Mk3s is fine as it is :).
    Schönes Video und Grüße aus Süddeutschland!

  • @TKDonuts
    @TKDonuts 4 роки тому +3

    The best way to fix the inconsistent extrusion problem (which i assume is the cause of your issues based on your description) I’d suggest getting the bondtech upgrade for the mk3, which uses the original bmg geared style extruder. A lot of users had this issue, and fixed it with this upgrade.

  • @okflyer777
    @okflyer777 4 роки тому

    I noticed on my Prusa i3Mk3S was producing Z axis banding as yours also does. I also noticed the extruder was sometimes pulling hard enough on the filament to slightly deflect the print head. This was with the stock Prusa filament holder.
    My fix was a completely new filament reel and axle running on sealed bearings that puts nearly zero stress on the print head while feeding filament. This change made a noticeable improvement in the layer artifacts. My latest prints are about 50mm tall and are very close to perfect exhibiting almost no layer issues. And yes high quality filament is a must... great video as always Thomas.

  • @burkeysvids
    @burkeysvids 4 роки тому +20

    For a while I was having all sorts of similar Z banding issues. But if I ran my finger along it I couldn't feel any sort of banding. The issue ended up being that the eSUN grey I was using (that I buy in 3kg rolls) had a large amount of pigment variation. So it wasn't actually a layer or printer issue at all. Changing to a different vendor's filament made it disappear all together.

    • @ulrichkliegis4138
      @ulrichkliegis4138 4 роки тому +1

      If you trace the history of the short-lived E3D BigBox project, you find the banding issue there as well. It seems that their primarily used stepper controllers caused some of it by introducing rounding errors in some zones. You always have to look at the whole system.

    • @burkeysvids
      @burkeysvids 4 роки тому

      @Jim Bob I think it was just the bulk rolls - printing out some vase mode models made it visible and obvious when you looked at it. I'd not had that issue with any other eSun filaments, and I've been through probably 50kgs of it.

  • @martin_mue
    @martin_mue 4 роки тому +25

    For this application linear rails from your favorite chinese store for around 15 Euros for a 500mm rail are just as fine. Most of the time they are perfectly usable out of the box. Should they not run perfectly smooth just tear down the block and wash it and the bearing balls in solvent to clean out the dirt from manufacturing. I have been happily running banggood rails on my corexy for a long time.

    • @fabiogarcia1431
      @fabiogarcia1431 3 роки тому

      Is there a specific vendor you would recommend?

    • @ameliabuns4058
      @ameliabuns4058 3 роки тому

      The ones I got have play in the block ;-;

  • @dale_ch
    @dale_ch 4 роки тому +2

    Liking your honest review - no manufacturer favoritism here - and I agree with your findings - makes total sense 👍

  • @BlownUpp
    @BlownUpp 2 роки тому

    I’m really glad I watched this - I just put my order in this morning and was trying to find any upgrades I could install while building up the printer. As someone who works with industrial CNC machinery, it’s hard to look at 3D printed parts supporting the main axis, but clearly that’s not a bottleneck in performance!
    Have you played around with any of the complicated analysis tools that use a print head accelerometer to tune motion on the fly to negate ringing and ghosting?

  • @Krytern
    @Krytern 4 роки тому +2

    Why can't I see the horizontal print lines? Is it the camera?

  • @hampuslundin4432
    @hampuslundin4432 4 роки тому

    Love these techy videos. And thanks for being so honest!

  • @lostname605
    @lostname605 4 роки тому +2

    About a minute into the video and WOW that production quality! The close ups look fantastic! Good Job Tom!

  • @HackMonkey
    @HackMonkey 4 роки тому +22

    Now the question is: Are you leaving them on, or switching back to the original rod setup?

    • @emmettmartin2639
      @emmettmartin2639 4 роки тому

      Why would he switch back?

    • @Krytern
      @Krytern 4 роки тому +2

      @@emmettmartin2639 Because he said he preferred them before it was changed? So wouldn't it make sense he might consider switching them back? Come on this isn't rocket science.

  • @victornovak1790
    @victornovak1790 4 роки тому

    Hey Tom,
    First thanks for your videos. They are much help! Could it be that the issue of ringing is more pronounced because the lack of slop in the bed?
    Could you point me to a video about the calibration of a Anet A8 axis?

  • @android4cg
    @android4cg 4 роки тому

    Excellent Review! Good to have such honest reviews.

  • @GregAllen2
    @GregAllen2 4 роки тому +1

    Thanks for the info... I have been waiting for a linear rail version of the Prusa printer for a long time. I think it may have been beneficial to print a simple test cube. That way you can see how much effect you are having on the Y axis.
    Cheers,
    Greg

  • @sargfowler9603
    @sargfowler9603 4 роки тому +37

    I got the best improvements when I upgraded the Z axis bearings to PTFE bushes

    • @jean-baptistepassant9637
      @jean-baptistepassant9637 4 роки тому +14

      I would love to hear more about that !

    • @Gefionius
      @Gefionius 4 роки тому +2

      Where could we get those? I did a search but couldnt find that. Also would that work for mk3s?

    • @evlsc400
      @evlsc400 3 роки тому

      @@Gefionius IGUS bushings, I printed my own to the tolerances of my printer in TPU.

  • @prahjister
    @prahjister 4 роки тому +1

    I would test a better spool holder. The resistance of the spool has negative impact and x gantry wobble. I have found that on a direct drive it is noticeable and you touched on it.

  • @potteryjoe
    @potteryjoe 4 роки тому

    Great review, thanks for your work, & your honest thoughts

  • @alejandroperez5368
    @alejandroperez5368 4 роки тому +1

    Those Z axis artifacts you're talking about may be related to the bed's temperature control. The bed expands and contracts while is trying to keep the temperature constant, thus changing the top surface height. You should check your BED PID values although it may not improve your results.

  • @cthulpiss
    @cthulpiss 4 роки тому +2

    Moving belt mounting point 3mm higher also makes Y movement just slightly less uniform

  • @snuggleattack9188
    @snuggleattack9188 4 роки тому

    Nice review and test! I think the artifacts you're seeing are from the extruder. Either the Bondtech gears being tight or an issue we're facing with microstepping. I've been fighting the same on my MK3S.

  • @rpavlik1
    @rpavlik1 4 роки тому +2

    Interesting video. I wonder if the results would have been different or more clear if the test model were more challenging - those planters are cute but look pretty easy to print.

  • @moorejl57
    @moorejl57 4 роки тому

    If the hypothesis is that belt springiness is causing the ringing artifacts, then would reducing acceleration/deceleration be an easy fix at the expense of some print time?

  • @ColinWatters
    @ColinWatters 4 роки тому

    Some of us printing visor headbands for health services are seeing splits down the middle of prints due to backlash. They occur on curved narrow strips sliced with lots of walls so they are 100% filled without using infill. Where the walls meet in the middle we get splits as each side is printed in opposite directions. Would be nice to know if linear rails have less backlash than other designs.

  • @rabenklang7
    @rabenklang7 4 роки тому

    I really liked, that you pointed out the minor (tiny) print quality deficiencies of the prusa prints! Somewhat of topic, but do other printers, in that price range, have a better print quality, some with a rigid core xy concept?

  • @matthewvandeventer3632
    @matthewvandeventer3632 4 роки тому

    Are there any backlash settings in the original that should be removed when applying this upgrade?

  • @ajudge8786
    @ajudge8786 4 роки тому

    At maker faire I saw a screw-drived printer (used instead of belts). I guess a screw drived XYaxis is quite slower, but could it be an improvement in terms of quality?

  • @NeverStopSeeking
    @NeverStopSeeking 4 роки тому +7

    Looking at how you are printing the model, aren't the nose ringing artifacts along the x axis ?? why are you judjing the improvment of installing linear rails on Y axis by artifact occured in the x Axis? Am i missing something?

    • @iusethisnameformygoogleacc1013
      @iusethisnameformygoogleacc1013 3 роки тому

      Yep; there are a *lot* of issues with this video. It's kind of sad; I really like Thomas' content, and he really does put in an honest effort to teach people and clear up misinformation, but he produces so much misinformation himself and seems completely unaware of it. His recent Solar Battery video was a *really* bad case of this, and so is this video.

  • @arne6787
    @arne6787 2 місяці тому

    Some of that ringing could be related to the mount arrangements for the Y axis belt drive system. Both ends are at the center of a flexible beam. There is no solid support below the belt from the back to the front of the printer. I had the vibration on my Anet A8 which has similar but plastic construction. I mounted a threaded rod below the belt tied in at the front middle and back. No more vibration on in the print.

  • @666Azmodan666
    @666Azmodan666 4 роки тому +7

    "There is no room for inaccuracy" looks like you have loose hiwinas so there is still room for inaccuracy.
    Hiwin carriages are divided into several types in this respect, one has a clearance (smaller balls), the other type does not have this clearance but requires more powerful motors.
    Look on the box ZO, ZA, ZB is this parameter.

  • @cjariman2055
    @cjariman2055 4 роки тому

    Hello Thomas,
    Do you think using a "thread locking product/glue " may help in these circumstances. As they are often used in high vibration machinesry to prevent loosening. Apologies if this has been asked before.

  • @wlbn6954
    @wlbn6954 4 роки тому

    Add some cork feet or a thick rubber mat under the printer to reduce resonance 'ringing' on the prints. you can also add them between the stepper motors and the stepper mounts to reduce it as well.

  • @traced82
    @traced82 4 роки тому +1

    Great video, thanks Tom!

  • @yogimarkmac
    @yogimarkmac 4 роки тому +2

    I expect the difference to be highlighted by larger prints where the mass creates more kinetic issues. Perhaps loading the linear rail with a 1lb weight while printing smaller test parts like you did would be more illustrative of the linear rail performance.

  • @TomMarsh1010
    @TomMarsh1010 4 роки тому

    Any chance that the wobble is applying a naturally reduced jerk, and that by reducing jerk on y-axis you'll get better results?

  • @ianwinter9747
    @ianwinter9747 4 роки тому

    I have the MK2s (not even done the 2.5s upgrade yet, but that bed is tempting) but the first (and only) upgrade I did was to swap those u bolts for a printed block (see thingiverse) so it did not pinch the bearings and I could tighten them up securely.

  • @ThantiK
    @ThantiK 4 роки тому

    Hey Tom, upgrade that i3 to E3D's wider belts/pulleys to see if you can get rid of some of the ghosting. Would be a good review to see if they're worth purchasing.

  • @machoneboard
    @machoneboard 4 роки тому

    Hi Thomas, a bit off topic but have you tried the ultra 316 stainless filament from BASF? You mentioned filament development in the meltzone podcast, just wondered if you had tried this ...I’d be interested to see how it got on and whether it is possible to debind and sinter at home?

  • @maximilianmuller9118
    @maximilianmuller9118 4 роки тому

    @thomas: What is the length of the linear rails? We have some lying around with 300mm and wondering if I could use them as the block won't reach to the end of th rails ...

  • @codydurand8396
    @codydurand8396 4 роки тому

    Since the bed is over-constrained and causes ringing in the system do you think adding rubber spacers underneath the u-bolt nuts would help to alleviate 1. some of the excess ringing, and 2. the wear of the textured surface over time? Of course you would have to use the same torque value over each nut to ensure consistent tightening.
    I would be curious so see the results. These would be similar to rubber motor mounts to reduce vibration in the entire system. Thoughts?

  • @ScaldaYT
    @ScaldaYT 4 роки тому

    If you lose 3mm in height wouldn't it make sense for the company to supply some shorter spacers to go under the bed to allow you to be able to do the full build height and also use the z calibrate wizard?

  • @rescuemethod
    @rescuemethod 4 роки тому

    Doesn't print speed have a direct effect on these print quality issues? What was your print speed? And did you test compare using a slower speed?

  • @intelligenceservices
    @intelligenceservices 4 роки тому

    A problem that I've been having is my two Z axis lead screws slowly decorrelating with each other.

  • @fikzaky
    @fikzaky 4 роки тому

    Hello Thomas,
    I did notice some kind of labels you have on the spools. Can you please share this label with us? Closeup picture will be just fine, I'm just curious what's on it. I do myself labels with a date of opening the filament, so I'll be happy for any inspiration.

  • @vojtator
    @vojtator 4 роки тому

    Why did you leave a gap between the rail and aluminium frame?

  • @MrKarriban
    @MrKarriban 4 роки тому +41

    7:12 They likely had the thought, but ultimately decided against it to keep the price a bit lower. Those rails are pricey.

    • @ulrichkliegis4138
      @ulrichkliegis4138 4 роки тому +10

      Some recent releases from Chinese market participants might match a better price/quality balance. You simply don't need the HiWin precision when other parts of your gear don't meet the same precision level. Still have to see a 3D printer with a cast mineral concrete bed... :)

  • @MakerBrain
    @MakerBrain 4 роки тому +6

    🔴"ahh, it's not perfect. . . ." 🤔 I feel you there 😂.

  • @DerBen0487
    @DerBen0487 4 роки тому

    Maybe now the frame needs to be more rigid as well because the forces from Y go directly into the frame without wobble? Would be interesting to see if the print quality does improve with a bear frame and linear rails.

  • @YOYOCrescendo
    @YOYOCrescendo 4 роки тому

    I love this, I learned a lot. I wish you would still show us the more technical side of 3D printing and not so much of the here's where I can go and here's what I can do side of it all. I am not trying to bring your channel down, I have learned a lot but I love the old stuff and wish you would do more in that aspect.

  • @gsshopprojects1772
    @gsshopprojects1772 3 роки тому

    This was interesting. I would be very interested to see what ball scews on the z axis would do. I would think that it would create more consistent layer height therefore smoother sides.

  • @ambareeshtr7316
    @ambareeshtr7316 3 роки тому

    How about adding rubber mounts b/w bearing and build plate. Maybe that can damper the slight vibrations

  • @TheFeday
    @TheFeday 4 роки тому +1

    I'd love to see you test/review custom extruders for the MK3S, for example the 'skelestruder' and the like.

  • @therebelrobot4691
    @therebelrobot4691 4 роки тому

    Thanks for the video! I was considering this upgrade until I watched your review. Even though the Y-axis does not provide any benefit with linear rails, would it be advisable to consider the Z/X-axis? Maybe to ease the z-wobble, obviously, more work would be required to re-design the printed parts.

    • @seanwood5443
      @seanwood5443 3 роки тому

      If u install clean and adjust properly and grease the blocks the improvement would be way better he didn't align the rail properly for one and two they need to be greased with a synthetic grease such as super lube they will out perform and other motion system i installed hwin mg linear rails on my x axis and y axis on my cr10s and I have gotten way better prints than with the stock setup

  • @MoraFermi
    @MoraFermi 4 роки тому +1

    From my experience, the belt tension is the biggest contributor to Y axis problems on MK3. Cranking it up helps constrain the bed more than fiddling with the rails.
    What I'm thinking about doing, at some point in the future, is to swap the X axis rods for a rail. The print head is rather heavy and the entire assembly is plastic and thin rods, so there might be some play in there.

    • @wktodd
      @wktodd 4 роки тому

      Yes. From years of experience with home-brew plotters , engravers, cnc and a 3D printer , keeping the belt resonance under control is vital (I built a wire drive plotter once , it rang like a guitar string , wild resonance!) adding a couple of idler wheels (or even long slides) on the long return run can help . Too much tension is as bad as too little - it really a case of observing and making adjustment s to kill any bad resonance.

  • @ed-jf3xh
    @ed-jf3xh 4 роки тому

    How do you know unless you print the exact same file all three times? And how can you be sure that the 3d printed parts in the Prusa aren't introducing some flex?

  • @teslastellar
    @teslastellar 4 роки тому

    I was wondering if you and anyone else reading this could get rid of the z artifacts or at least figure out what causes them? All the printers I've tried out show those artifacts. They're not easily visible as you described but can definitely be seen when you look at the surface at an angle.

  • @AlexDrawingStuff
    @AlexDrawingStuff 3 роки тому

    lol exactly what I was looking for, thank you!
    Did you find out what caused the artifacts? Mine are kind of serious... With a seriously overtightened bed though...

  • @PO0YA
    @PO0YA 4 роки тому +17

    13:57 "while this last print is going..." ehm... Tom we can see the finished third print in front of you :D

    • @brianwild4640
      @brianwild4640 4 роки тому

      That's because it's a timelaspe recording put in a picture in picture placed in after just to show you it printing. Does not mean it was not the actual print :D

    • @Krytern
      @Krytern 4 роки тому

      @@brianwild4640 But the print wasn't going when he said it was. That was the dry humour Pouya was going for. Do you always come in when someone makes a joke and tell everyone "well technically...."?

    • @brianwild4640
      @brianwild4640 4 роки тому

      Krytern yes I do

  • @ShadowRam242
    @ShadowRam242 4 роки тому +1

    How many takes did it take for you to get through that first 5 second mouthful?

  • @gladiusilluminatus3720
    @gladiusilluminatus3720 4 роки тому

    So talking about MK3S upgrades would you consider doing a bear upgrade on one? I would really be curious if that would have a positive difference on print quality since the MK3S is already such a fantastic machine.

  • @chezcotton
    @chezcotton 2 роки тому

    Nice video! Now I wanna know how it does at higher speeds and/or increased weight

  • @UppsalaHenrik
    @UppsalaHenrik 4 роки тому +1

    What is the exact length of those rails? I'm thinking €50 chinese rails might be a better match for this upgrade. Two Hiwin rails are insane overkill...
    I would also guess that just bolting the rails to the frame extrusions on the front side is better for the z-height and stability. This removes one set of structural printed parts, although we would need some endstops to keep the y travel the same as stock.

    • @ProtonOne11
      @ProtonOne11 4 роки тому

      i think they are 250mm, but watterott does not seem to indicate that on theyr website (or i'm blind), so it would be great if Tom can confirm.

  • @BuyitBreakitFixit
    @BuyitBreakitFixit 3 роки тому

    Do you have a link to the active cooling fan duct? Yours looks like it is not stock.

  • @thelightspeed3d712
    @thelightspeed3d712 4 роки тому

    Tom don’t you think the X axis would be more beneficial? Also the layer issues are and have been ok the Prusa MK3 since the beginning. Almost no way to fix it.

  • @Sven_Hein
    @Sven_Hein 4 роки тому

    I printed PETG bearing blocks for my bed and it's near rock solid, maybe 0.2mm wobble up and down under force. And prints look better than before.

  • @woodwaker1
    @woodwaker1 4 роки тому

    A great video, I like the end result that spending a lot of money may not make much or any difference, but , many of us enjoy the hunt

  • @nilsappeldorn9146
    @nilsappeldorn9146 4 роки тому

    I've been trying to understand the inconsistency issue(s) of the Mk3 for months now, read countless forum posts and asked the 602 community in discord (which I can recommend btw).
    First of all I installed a reverse bowden as suggested in the video too, and it really helped a lot. Mind, that you don't need to minimize slop here, so a 3mm inner diameter/4mm outer diameter PTFE tube works wonderfully!
    Everything else probably comes down to the extruder itself. Many people reported significant improvement after installing a geared extruder like the Bondtech upgrade. Although a bit pricey it also reduces weight and extruder motor temperature, which on top of that can't be transferred to the actual gears and with that the filament anymore, so it won't soften. Prusa actually uses this method in their Pursa Mini printers now, which I find somewhat ridiculous...
    Another thing of course is heat creap which causes the filament to stick slightly on its way to the nozzle and therefore causes layer inconsistencies. Swapping the silent but weak noctua fan for one with higher static pressure like models by Sunon seemed to help a lot by keeping the cold end, well... colder. So these are the most important upgrades I'm planning to install next.
    Hope that helps some people =)

  • @MonguzTea
    @MonguzTea 2 роки тому

    Thermal expansion of the y carriage made impossible to set the rails for me. Its fine when cold but binding when heated to petg temp. Changed them to 10mm rods.

  • @wfpelletier4348
    @wfpelletier4348 4 роки тому +2

    Tom, this experiment makes me wonder if you should replace the u-bolts of the linear bushings with zip-ties, and compare the quality of the print again.

    • @mjkuwp94
      @mjkuwp94 4 роки тому

      I used belleville washers and distorted-thread locknuts on the U-bolts. The idea is to get some tension force in the joint that will stay relatively consistent over time. I think the Prusa instructions have you tighten them until they touch and then another 90 degrees. This is also a valid technique but I don't know if everyone will interpret 'touching' the same way.

  • @maot1985
    @maot1985 4 роки тому +1

    It would be interesting what you think of the Conrad Renkforce RF2000v2. We have one in the office and I have also one at home. Meanwhile the printer costs 1500€, just 500€ more than the Prusa. But for the 500€ you get linear rails, ballscrews, bedleveling with DMS-sensors, 2 hotends for dual-print and a sturdy housing.

  • @severinfriedl
    @severinfriedl 4 роки тому

    Hey Tom, can you tell me whats the name of the soundtrack starting at 13:52? Cheers

  • @ParsMaker
    @ParsMaker 4 роки тому

    Hi Thomas ,
    if I want to modify the original Prusa i3 mk3 printer and change my
    heated bed for a bigger size bed or extend z axis , does the printer
    recognise the extension in the axis and would auto bed levelling works

  • @cristiansandu7056
    @cristiansandu7056 4 роки тому

    Hi Thomas! What about noise? Do these reduce the noise profile?

  • @Deneteus
    @Deneteus 4 роки тому

    Are you going to do a follow up video after having used it for over a month?

  • @thenormanfair
    @thenormanfair 4 роки тому

    The mk2.5 upgrade kit come with a drill bit and a holder so you can drill out the holes for the zip ties so you can use u bolts.

  • @Robothut
    @Robothut 4 роки тому

    Back in July when I did upgrade my Prusa MK3 to linear rails, it cost me under $40 bucks not 200 Euros. Print quality stayed great but the lower noise level of the heat bed was well worth doing it. Also you can gain up to 15mm or Y travel if you want it and more Z if you want it but that will stop the Self tests from working so I kept my travel the same.

  • @davidbanaszak562
    @davidbanaszak562 4 роки тому

    what about if your having issues with y axis crashing? will this stop the bed from hitting the frame?

  • @TheDgdimick
    @TheDgdimick 4 роки тому

    I like that it has 2 linear rails, however, I don't like that the rails are "floating" and only connected to the ends. The linear rail kit for the Ender3 from 3dFused has only one rail on the Y axis, however, it's bolted down along the whole rail. I do love the rails on the Ender3, and I'm sure they would be great on the Prusa as well.

  • @aspmos
    @aspmos 4 роки тому

    Does anyone know the lenght and width of these linear rails?

  • @oxivanisher
    @oxivanisher 4 роки тому +3

    Ah yes, the tool to fasten RC Car wheels at 3:23 . I also use mine as default hex nut fastener for small ones. :D

  • @tomhsia4354
    @tomhsia4354 4 роки тому +1

    Yeah, the layer lines not perfectly aligning and vertical lines (ringing?) have been driving me crazy. Belt tension does seem to affect the vertical lines.
    I think it may have something to do with the printer not micro-stepping properly. The printer prints mechanical components just fine, I can reliably get to 0.1mm on Makers Muses' tolerance test print, I don't even need to force it free. It just makes it impossible to print decoration prints at anything faster than snails' pace

  • @martinrwolfe
    @martinrwolfe 4 роки тому

    With regards to the loss of height that 3mm is actually within the design tolerances of th MK3. You could combine this upgrade with an upgrade to the MK3S which would get you the height back. Another way to gain height back is to use the full volume volcano modification with which when fitted with the standard ED3 heaterblock with out the standard height adjusters would gain you 8.6mm.