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Linear rails guide and test on Ender 3 and Ender 5
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- Опубліковано 26 лют 2020
- Do linear rails improve print quality? On paper, yes. In this video we find out about actual results with before and after test prints.
In summary, linear rails offer little in improvement for a really well set up machine. They still have a purpose and if you are going this way, these are quite good kits. The quality is nice and the modular nature means you can switch over a little each time or all in one go. You also have a choice of how much to spend on linear rails and blocks.
Linear rails might have more of a benefit when switching to a heavier direct extruder, or perhaps when pushing high prints speeds.
These kits and rails supplied free of charge for the purposes of conducting this test. All opinions expressed are my own.
Purchase these kits from www.printermods.com :
MDD V1.2 kit (required for X axis, gives you the ability to convert to direct drive if you wish): printermods.co...
X axis linear adaptor (required for Ender 5 X axis only): printermods.co...
Y axis kit: printermods.co...
The required rails and bearing blocks are listed on each product page and in the support section.
My previous video on the modular direct drive kit: • Modular direct drive k...
My acceleration test video: • Remove ringing by tuni...
Alex Kenis linear rails video 1: • Cheap Linear rail "rev...
Alex Kenis linear rails video 2: • Cheap linear rail part...
Tom’s 3D Prusa MK3 linear rail test: • Upgrading the MK3 with...
Test models:
Lion HD: www.thingivers...
Blink fox: www.myminifact...
Buy quality and affordable filament from X3D. Buy 3, get 1 free and a free sample pack with every order: www.x3d.com.au
Buy quality resins from 3D Printers Online. Get modelling, ABS-like, flex, high temp and tough resin at www.3dprintersonline.com.au
Take a look around and if you like what you see, please subscribe.
Support me on Patreon: / teachingtech
So, this must be the last upgrade to my Ender 3 before I can build a complete stock Ender 3 from the remaining parts.
DjZorlag lol. Cheap machine, expensive mods!
@@kerbodynamicx472 Yeah, I'm seriously considering this linear rails mod over the PC wheels that they sell. Should work a lifetime.
Food for thought, isn't it?
Iñigo Zapata spend extra first, save more later
I had some magic smoke during an upgrade a while back and never got around to revisiting my Ender-3. Now, I use it for spare parts for my new Ender-5.
This is what happens when a professional teacher makes how-to videos! Good job
For anyone still debating, upgrading a couple of things won't give you much in terms of speed, accuracy or performance. But now that I've done about everything you could dream of (without altering the frame) on my Ender 3 Pro, including 32-bit mainboard, ABL, linear rails on every axis, rigid build plate, dual z steppers and direct drive with an all metal hotend, I can confidently say that immediately after finishing the project I'm now printing at 300 mm/s with equal-to-or-better quality than what I was able to achieve before upgrading anything. Skimp and settle for limp, go full ham and kablam! Still testing to get the speed ever higher.
The Ender 3 is a versatile and awesome piece of kit, just needs a few QOL updates to make it an astonishing one :)
300 is hard to believe. Best I got without fail is 150 😂
Did you replaced your hot end ?
What options did you change in your slicer to take advantage of these upgrades and how did it change print times? I've already invested time and money making my 2x Ender 3's silent and I was debating getting a Bambulab P1P for speed but it's expensive and I read it doesn't perform well with 0.6 or 0.8 mm nozzles (only stock 0.4).
With no goal of increasing speed I have done similar to the modestly specced E3V2, including all metal hot end, BL touch,BTT SKR mainboard and TFT35 screen, plus just got a Sonic Pad,but about to get X rails and wondering if I should get Y as well..Y not? And must look up what rigid build plate is and i am yet to do another Z stepper which is think is an option for an E3v2. I have been printing the notoriously uncooperative PETG like a dream at ridiculous speeds of 75mm plus I can honestly say this Frankenmess with wiring all ove the gaffe and various scratches and loss of power coating on the extrusions etc. that this is still a way better machine than my E3S1Pro which I am def not crazy about lol has printed PETG about twice without problems and sometimes struggles with PLA...at the moment has a burned out mainboard I think..what a turkey the S1 Pro is
What acceleration speed do you have it on?
Happy to agree, Ender 3 platform is such a kit to modify. Even a simple custom home made Firmware recompile enabling linear advance and manual mesh give me better and consistent result for basically free
06:09 Y axis for ender 3., 09:00 X acis Ender 5., 11:27 X axis ender 3., 12:39 General Tips.,
My guess is that the initial quality will be similar or the same, but linear rails will hold that quality in the long run with no adjustments needed. At least not the same as rollers and concentric nuts.
Which is always a big positive. Consistancy is key
@Kenny Eaton precision ground bed but you mount linear rails to aluminum extrusion lol... Also you can get within 0.005" with rollers. It's the aluminum extrusion that's going to make or break your tolerances. Sounds like you just kinda throw money at the thing.
Yep, those concentric nuts don't help at all. That's why I use eccentric nuts. :-)
@@justd3fy No, the cast and ground plate is one of the best things I ever bought, mostly because it doesn't change when heating. The original plate bulged hideously when a Keenovo bed heater was added. I don't have rails, but the bed change alone meant never having to re-level, and I no longer had to bother with the BL-Touch. I've been thinking of adding rails just to cut down on the maintenance, I don't expect to see better prints, but don't have to worry about wheel wear and adjustments. My printers run pretty much constantly doing days-long prints, it's worth it to me.
@@WhiteG60 I, too, would love to hear of source suggestions. In my relatively brief search, the only place that MIGHT have what we're both looking for would be Midwest Supply. "Cast Aluminum Tool & Jig Plate (ATP 5)" has yielded the only online source I've found that will give an immediate quote for small quantities. Shipping to my area was about at expensive as the plate, though, lol. Oh well.
If those assemblies didn’t have had rubber bushings ringing would be worst with the linear rails. Some vibration dampening is a must with linear rails it seems. So glad you have not actively sold those parts like some other UA-camrs. It shows integrity. Some others just sell them even if the results where worst. This solution might be the best option and does not make the prints worse. It might give higher durability to the system provided one uses good linear rails. But truth be told V slots adjusted properly are enough to achieve maximum printing quality of the complete system disregarding that it is the “inferior” solution.
The more I try to upgrade my Ender 3, the more I realize it was born perfect.
Living through this now as my “upgraded” ender 3 sits dismantled
@@iDigStuff Lol. Perfect except of course: Cr10 bed springs, A metal extruder, Capricorn Bowden, Spider coupler and an anti-backlash spring. Otherwise, born with it.
@@Splatterpunk_OldNewYork Mines stock and I was amazed at how well it printed I did now upgrade the bed springs and the extruder is metal and it's gone from amazing to almost prefect
@@SeizureGman Hang a sandbag on the top beam, or otherwise add some weight (kilos) to the frame. Do this while having the machine rest on foam feet or sheet. Large machines have lots of mass, allowing for cleaner prints.
@@Splatterpunk_OldNewYork Thanks I'll give it a try. The ender 3 v2 is leagues ahead of my FLSUN qqs Pro
The precision of the linear rails will likely cause the vibrations of the stepper motors to show in the print much more than the standard system, since it's more rigid. I can see it in some of the prints where there are straight lines. Thanks for the video. Really enjoyed watching it!
Yeah, actually the rubber wheels have a good damping coefficient, that dissipates more energy due to kinematics
Happy with the stock set up on my cr-10 s5 X axis. Going to round linear rails for Y axis was the best thing I did. That 510x510 bed and rubber rollers were nothing but a head ache. Almost sold the printer off cheap before the upgrade, now I don't even think about replacing it.
what a silly smile at the end? :) Appreciate your work, very informative and teaching. Thank you
I tried extra hard for that one. My wife is always teasing me about them not being big enough.
@@TeachingTech hahahaha nice
Thank you, you just saved me $100. Was thinking it would be an improvement to prints, im glad i did some research and found your video, thank you
i did this conversion on my prusa clone, going from rods and bearings, to linear rails. I did it because my printer was showing signs of age (years of printing) and the bearings were failing. I initially bought new rods and bearings, and it did solve the issue, but i decided why not and got some linear rails as well. *There is no significant difference in print quality*, besides what was outlined in toms video (the issue wont occur with higher tolerance machines in my experience). the rails have a somewhat quieter operation, but not by much. The main reason you should go for linear rails is because either you want to and can, or you want the better lifespan and tolerance they provide. and they look way better :)
I'd say the biggest advantage of the linear rail kit is the "set & forget" aspect of it. If you're having problems with your 3d printer, it reduces your problem tree significantly. It's also a little quieter
I got mine because of consistency and reliability. In the long run, its just better to have them. It eliminates possible issues in the future as well as gets rid of those annoying concentric nuts. Doesn't really affect quality like you stated but I do think you're able to print slightly faster. Thanks for the informative vid. Ender 5 looks like a great machine
chinese rails have a reputation for failing over time and having paly tho
@@ameliabuns4058 WHICH Chinese rails? That's kind of a sweeping generalization
I guess the benefit of linear rails is really only going to be seen in the long term repeatability and reliability of the print performance rather than in radical improvements in print quality.
No. The main benefit is that they're extremely rigid, but for a 3d printer with light (sub 1 kg) print head lack of rigidity is not an issue. Prusa printers don't use them, that should tell you something.
@@michaelbuckers Yes but prusa doesnt use roller wheels they use linear rods which is very similar to the linear rails
Linear rails still need maintaining , removing old grease and putting in new from time to time as against wheels that crack and need replacement every few years.
@@cutty02 Yep linear rods is in between linear blocks and rollers. It easily slide and with added rigidity. Linear blocks needs weight applied to it to slide well and no weight in 3d printing gantry or bed is heavy enough. Linear rods can really benefit the bed and the gantry.
I think the biggest difference would be dual Z and linear rails on Z-axis, in my opinion the Z rollers that has flat spots make the biggest surface imperfections on prints
This is a very well documented and logically approached test . Good job.
Great step by step and trial. I was considering the change for linear rails, but I’m not on the stage of pushkng my printer’s limit, so better keep saving or upgrading other way. Thanks a lot! 😁
I was having the worst time with my Ender 3 and the stock rollers, could feel and hear notches during motion that made my prints awful. I tried replacing them but the only Amazon parts had horrible tolerances for the bearings which gave me lots of side to side play and still bad print quality. the moment I changed to a linear rail (initially then rails) I noticed significant improvement down to supports coming off like a dream. I had a bit of binding with the belt tension and the roller cage so ended up getting a second linear rail for the bed and my prints have never been so good. the only down side has been a loss in build volume and I don't want to mess with any code or board swap so thank you for letting me know about this kit, will order ASAP
I would treat it more as a "quality of life" upgrade - a perfectly set up ender that always gets great quality then yeah, no point. But if you're having issues that might be due to poorly adjusted POM wheels it would be a great upgrade.
@@BLV-3D he often doesn't use much critical thought in his "tests"
What's POM?
@@lucky4the4turtle en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyoxymethylene
@@LaughingMan44 Why do you suggest it's not a valid test?
In a previous job I had installed hundreds of these linear rails on optical measuring machines.These rail do not come in straight, they are all kinds of warped. We had to use some pretty sophisticated measuring tools to install them. They are also designed to be mounted to granite because its the best material that can over come the twists in the rails. To really benefit from linear rails they need better alignment tool installation. 1 tip i can give you is to tighten the bolts in the center and work your way out. A 2nd tip is try to mount a dial indicator somewhere on your nozzle end and run it across your bed. you will begin to see how nonparallel the rail is installed.
Very good insight, thanks for sharing.
I have to wonder how much warp is from the factory and how much is from shipping, packages being tossed onto pallets, shipping guys fencing with them, customer handling, ...
@@scottwillis5434 that's just bad packaging then
they're mounted on mineral machine bases (like granite epoxy) because it combines high rigidity with high internal friction, which means it dampens vibrations
I've been hoping for this video! Good to know that the print quality is pretty much the same, i'll hold off on this mod for now :)
Thank you. that was helpful. I don't have a print quality issue but I was looking at linear rails. I probably don't need them
Thank you for this video. I've been thinking about linear rails but after watching this, why bother, Improvement vs price just doesn't justify the expense.
Thank you for the honest opinion.
I had a feeling the v slots would be pretty close in quality but I did not have to spend a lot of money .
Great Video as Always Micheal.I hot glue my 5015 fan wires on back to stop them from breaking at solder joint.Keep up the good work.
I had built a "Repstrap" a few years ago. Originally it used ball bearing drawer slides as the linear bearings, but there was some slop once these wore in so I wanted to replace them. I used conventional round linear bearings and rods for the Y axis and a square linear rails and block for the X axis. I wanted to replace the Z axis drawer slides with the linear rails and blocks, but this would have required me to completely disassemble the printer and drill new holes in the steel frame. Since I had already replaced the threaded drive rods on the Z axis with actual metric drive screws, I left the Z axis alone. I don't think the linear rails and rods made a great difference in print improvement, but I did change out the size of the bed from 7"x7" to 8"x10", and upgraded the motor mounts in the process so my mods did yield other benefits.
Wow. Thx for this video. Just purchased a ender 5 Plus 4days ago. Hooked and I'm experimenting with settings. Love the tinkering. Would guessed that linear rails would have a bigger impact than your test showed.
But as someone mentioned, with fresh rolls and tighten it won't make much difference. But I'm pretty sure u could experiment with faster print speeds and acceleration settings.
I love my rails using the mdd on my 5+. Having the bracket made it that much better as I was using a printed part and it would come loose quite often. I talk with matt quite often and will be doing my e3 when funds allow.
Glad I watched this I was getting "UA-cam upgradeitis" on my brand new Ender 5 plus but now that I know these particular upgrades make zero difference to performance I won't bother! Must be embarrassing for the company selling the upgrades.
Funny that you showed what happened with the 5015 part cooling fan, I just had almost the same thing, except one strand of the wire touched the other, causing a short and killing the SKR 1.4 motherboard. I'm going to post a PSA about these 5015 fans, because it's really easy to get a short from them the way the wires are soldered. Basically I used a couple spots of hot glue to make the fan more resilient, so you're not weakening the solder joints when you work on the hotend.
I guess I was lucky. I used hot glue as well after my repair. It's good insurance.
Thanks! finally ender 5 mods from someone I trust.
You forget the most important reason to do the rails. Its printer bling.
Haha I am enjoying the appearance.
Can you get them in gold? And maybe insert rhinestones in the screw holes...
@@TeachingTech How about some RGB linear rails? lolllll
@@musingsofanitwit hold my beer
@@musingsofanitwit I mean, are you even PC Masterace without RGB? Hmm, gives me ideas...haha
I guess it will pay on the long term; I was a bit disappointed, that there is no significant advantage in the quality, but on the other hand it shows that the basic concept of the 3D printers is not that bad. But I may give it a try to my Ender 3 Pro, as it's bed has always problems after some (2 or 3) prints. either wobbling or new leveling necessary, got a monday reviewed modell I think.
Same here..... wobbling
Thanks for this video, I was just thinking if I should do this mod on my printer.
I’m upgrading my x axis to a linear rail as the acceleration with Klipper is grinding the v-slot wheels. I’m also going to do an input shaping calibration to hopefully eliminate any ringing.
Great video, thank you. I was already looking for linear rails for Ender 3, and investigating if it will help and improve printing, so you helped me a lot with this video.
I have an ender 3 v2 with dual z, tiered braces, antibacklash nuts, skr v2 board, closed loop steppers on the x and y, all metal hotend, bl touch, different part cooling, and maybe linear rails in the future idk. Upgrades are a lot of work and I recommend one at a time. This printer commoly does the largest size prints possible and it does a perfect job, I can hit print and walk away. I also have two Ellagoo clone that just have a Capricorn Bowden tube upgrade and they do smaller prints no problem. I think upgrades can be worth it but the stock machines put together right and trammed square are awesome
I retrofitted my customer Kossel from Delrin wheels to custom cut Hiwins I ordered from Alibaba and I couldn't really tell the difference. I believe the linear rails are better particularly at higher speed, but I couldn't really come up with data to support that theory. I used the Delrins for about 3 years and they were fine. What's kind of worse was that before the Delrins, I used Home Depo shower door wheels which was an absolute hack. Each wheel had a lot of slop. But when I switched to the Delrins the improvement was real, but quite small. I think maybe the slop of the Home Depo wheels might have been largely cancelled out by there being 9 of them in total, all joined to one effector.
I think the best reason to consider linear rails is actually because then your mechanical motion happens on a component that's relatively protected. By doing your motion on the same V-slots that are the body of the machine, you run the risk adverse effects from small dents the machine takes as you move it around. Linear rails are somewhat protected by comparison, so they may not get damaged as easily. I think it's a small benefit. For the cost, it might be wiser to just work on acquiring more/other printers. The only other reason to have rails is cause they seem "cool".
I would question if the "hiwin" rails from aliexpress were actually hiwin. I dont think they sell their products on aliexpress. Also Hiwins are massively expensive. I just got a single rail made by THK, one rail with 2 blocks, for $125. And this was nearly the best price I found on ebay for USED rails. The new ones from hiwin would bankrupt me. But comparing this rail, which I just got today, to the cheapo ones from amazon (20-30$) the difference is spectacular. Its massively noticeable, in terms of slop and lack of friction. And I am comparing these rails that just arrived, no cleaning or lube, to ones that I cleaned, replaced the ball bearings with tighter tolerance balls, and lubed up. I can't believe the difference.
Considering how much you can tinker around with linear rails, you have a decently good chance of screwing it up if you don't use a dial indicator, don't lubricate them properly, don't set the tensioner up right, don't use the same torque, etc
hey buddy what's up PJ here from 3D printing Canada I just recently did the micro Swiss direct drive linear rail as well as bed and zerails I found it made some improvements in my print quality but like you said not tons it definitely has helped me push speeds mind u I'm running klipper
Dude.. how crazy is that!? I just finished putting rails on my alfawise u10. Keep it up man!
Thanks for such detailed instructions Michael - as usual!
Just the video i was waiting for...... THANKS.
Alex Kenis FTW!
What should be mentioned is the linear rails increase rigidity(a Good thing!), therefore will transfer the smallest movement-noise to the nozzle. Everything else needs to become more rigid. (Frame, carriage assembly, belt setup...)
I ran the stock rollers on my Ender 3 for about two years and other than a wipe down every so often, I didn't need to do any adjustments to the rollers. I then decided to try a linear rail on the Y axis to see if there would be any improvement in print quality. I found a conversion on Thingiverse and used that. If there is any improvement, I can't see it. To be fair though, with all the rollers properly adjusted, the printer was printing pretty good as is. Decided to leave the X and Z axis with their rollers since they're still fine with no adjustments required.
There's no advantage to rails if you're rollers are adjusted correctly. At the end of the day the goal is to minimize play between the components. Well adjusted rollers can achieve almost zero play just like precision linear rails. The difference is longevity. Rollers are plastic and will eventually wear thus requiring adjustment. Linear rails use hardened bearings and case hardened rails so they'll last much longer before requiring replacement.
Have to disagree on the maintenance, linear rails are much less tolerant of dirt than vslots+wheels, you'll need to clean them more often, and the servicing is much more involved. Add to this the fact that 3d Printers generate all sorts of cruft like strings and UFPs, there's more than one reason for vslots on consumer 3D printers than cost.
The one printer I own that has linear rails needs less maintenance than my CR10 fleet. I understand where you are coming from, but it hasn't played out that way in my print shop. The V-slots and wheels need more cleaning and the cleaning takes longer, and the wheels need adjusting and replacing which hasn't been an issue on the big-boy.
I've fitted my Ender 3 (non-pro) with linear rails on Y and X axis because I've had a terrible experience with roller wheels. They wore out, always had flat spots or were too loose, made the bed go in a wave pattern, overall terrible solution overall. I looked into widening the base for Y axis and replacing rollers with higher quallity ones like OpenBuild ones. But when I added up the cost it was more expensive than getting chinese MGN copies. I've had good luck with Robotdigg ones and never had problems again. Quality improved significantly, considering roller setup produced crooked lines.
@@bhaelhalelthebastard6014 V-Slot Wheel setups need to be readjusted from time to time, mostly due to pressure and vibrations acting on the eccentric nuts, or excessive wear on crappy wheels. At least I think that's what he was writing about. And yeah, Linear Rails require their own specific maintenance or they will fail too, but its much less time-consuming.
You had a rough time. I don't think I've ever had to adjust the wheels on my Ender 3.
@@TeachingTech what.jpg
I think you mean you had to only adjust them once at the initial assembly?
I'm wondering if you tighten your wheel nuts with considerably more newtons than I did. I'm literally the guy sitting there with a digital newton wrench tightening stuff to assembly specs or if unavailable the hardware DIN specs.
I guess as I've done mod videos on the printer I've had to disassemble and reassemble, so they were inadvertently adjusted at times. In my experience adjusting v roller tension is not something I have to do that often, but everyone's printers, room conditions, etc varies.
How do you keep doing videos about things I've been wondering about??? Are you a mind reader? You could open for my stage show! Keep up the great work!
I wonder if linear rails are better reserved for a CNC router or mill, where their strength and rigidity is more significant? As always, an excellent, thought-provoking video. Thanks.
Yep, as others have said, it becomes a matter of consistency and maintenance reduction. No need to disassemble anything and replace worn wheels. Once in a great while, maybe you wipe and lube the rails, but that's about it. I also hate throwing things in the trash. We generate so much garbage as a society. Linear rails, while more expensive, create a long-lasting replacement that's fully-recyclable if they ever wear out (which is pretty unlikely, if you aren't running them nonstop for years). When my Ender 3 gets to the point of needing new wheels, I'm definitely going to look at swapping at least one set for a linear rail, maybe both X and Y.
Very good video, i've an ender 3 V2 and i think i will upgrade it with your solution, congrats
Thanks for covering this. Do you feel it would benefit other operations such as laser, pcb, and acrylic etching? I don't use my ender 3 for much 3d printing. Im wondering if they would help keep the gantry on each axis more rigid
I added liner rails to x, y and z on my Ender 3 Pro and am quite happy . I used 3DFused products a little expensive most of my printing issues have been corrected . One issue I ended up with was a issue of getting the first layer to adhere to the glass bed ..If you have a suggestion for this issue please send it to me ...I like your series and have used it to learn and operate Marlin this is a bit of a choir but like the challange....thanks for you time ..keep up the great work ....
Wait... how did you linear rail the Z?
@@jasonking7570 I don't know if 3DFUSED still sail the rails or not...if you have direct drive make sure you get the mount needed.
Everything in this video was very informative and I think it's great.....the only critique I have is that there's no reason to remove parts to slide the t nuts in from the end of the extrusion....by their very nature t nuts are ment to be installed by simply lining them up with the slot and turning them clockwise to tighten them.....it's just unnecessary steps to remove parts to install them....again....great video
He was using slide-in t nuts rather than the drop-in variety. Drop in t nuts are more convenient, but don’t always turn and align themselves when tightening. They tend to self adjust and loosen with time and vibration whereas the slide-in t nuts only fit in the channel one way and will not move and loosen over time.
I was considering building a core xy for my extender, but now I am considering this kit and converting to hybrid steppers with encoders and the motion axis.
My Ender 3 now has Linear Rail Kits on all 3 Axis along with Solid Bed Mounts and a Direct Drive Extruder. I have replaced the control board with an SKR Mini E3 and have gotten rid of my EZABL. I've created my own custom Firmware with VS Code and Platform.io using the Manual Mesh Bed Levelling system with every feature enabled other than Bed Probing. Something that couldn't be done with the stock Melzi 8 Bit Board due to space limitations. I can now Level my bed Once and Never have to do it again, Period as it is Rigidly Mounted and the Bed Screws now have Red Loctite securing the nuts.
Great video as always! A question though: did you go with name brand/pricier rails, inexpensive ones, or somewhere in between? Keep up the amazing work :)
The rails were supplied by printer mods, so I'm not sure exactly which ones they are
At what point is it no longer an Ender 3?
I know this is an old video and hope you monitor comments. I truly have learned a lot from your channel for first of all thank you! I have an ender 5 plus that I use regularly and am looking to speed things up a bit. Runs great now, but will be adding linear rails here in a few days when they show up. My request of you is would you be able to share your Cura profiles that you use to attain reasonable quality at 100mm/s? I am creeping that way but would like to reference your configuration along my journey.
Great video. It was about time to bust the linear rails. I would definetly choose linear rails over pom wheels when trying to move carriages way heavier than those of the average 3D printer. Otherwhise there are better ways to spend your money improving your 3D printer. You can get 0.9° steppers e.g. With pom wheels, you also can control the friction of your axis. Linear rails are hit or miss. I really don't see maintance as a valid argument tbh, well installed wheels require as little maintace as well installed rails. Plenty of people see dust for wear by mistake on pom wheels.
Depends on how much you print, we go through sets of wheels and have to clean the V-slot based printers, and adjust them more often. If you enjoy tinkering, and don't print for a living then v-slot is fine, the quality of well adjusted v-slot vs rails is basically identical, but the v-slot system takes more effort to keep them adjusted, whereas the rails are just print and go.
I have modified my CR-10 S5 and mounted linear rails on all axes. Except for flat nylon rollers that you won't have to worry about anymore and the sporadic adjustment of tension with the eccentric nuts on some of the rollers, there is not much of a difference to be seen in the print quality... just as you concluded.
I think the biggest improvements one would see on the ender 3 is on the z axis. It would provide ridgity to the sagging over time single z lead screw.
@Chris Valin I think the dual lead screw is the way to go, that is the right solution to the Z sag problem. Linear rails might help a little, but the dual lead screws completely eliminate the problem. Also, a lead screw is much cheaper to fit than linear rails ;-)
I fitted the second Z lead screw on my Tevo Tornado and upgraded to 2 mm pitch lead screws at the same time for better Z resolution. I also added anti-backlash nuts just to be sure in case I wan to use Z hop.
@@bhaelhalelthebastard6014 Just fit the other Z lead screw, that's a much cheaper solution. There are upgrade kits readily available for a few printers.
the thing about the rails is its more industrial / commercial provided u used quality rails as i cant speak to the chinese ones. You will have less resistance on the steppers and u wont have to worry about the tire wear and readjustments. I wouldnt look at it as something to improve print quality more printer durability. If u ran one with linear rails and one with the wheels side by side hours on end every day which do u think will fail first? If u are doing a print farm I would say put rails, there is a reason that cnc and industrial machines like cnc machine shop equipment etc.. use rails.
Professional firmware for bed leveling was a game changer for me.
What do you know, a non-contact CNC has no benefit from linear rails. I'm glad you took the time to prove what I would think is obvious.
What exactly is the point of lineair bearings if you use rubber washers ?
I got so sick of seeing my bed/carriage wobbling every few months I just decided to get a near maintenance free option
It just may be badly tuned. Or your wheels has bad quality. Buy some normal PC wheels. Much cheaper than linear rails and will not need much efforts to replace (no any kits).
Interesting as always 👍
Thanks for sharing 👍😀
The Prusa's don't use the same type of rails as the Enders, so I think Thomas Slanderer's video can't be compared "apples to apples", however, with this said, owning 2 Ender3's with Linear Rails, I'd have to say, that I don't see a dramatic improvement in my prints from doing the upgrade. I'd still do the upgrade again however, knowing that it's just one less thing that will wear out later, as well as using a heated enclosure with rubber wheels isn't such a great idea.
When you get your Hiwin-style rails: do NOT make the same mistake that I made and clip off the cable ties right after unpacking.
If you do that, the result will be lots of cussing and fishing around for the ball bearings. Those little buggers like to fly EVERYWHERE when let loose. So leave the cable ties on. You can clean hat bit later.
If you already made the mistake: grab a small magnet, stick it in a plastic bag and drag it over at least half the room. Any wayward bearings will stick to the bag and you can collect them easily. Rinse & repeat. Carpet dies not want to let go of the bearings without a fight.
Linear rail is costly. But it is statisfied when you need accuracy and long term use. If you still use belt, lead screw it will not many effected rather than ball screw. The price is not lying, when you said about brand and experiences on that. Like Hiwin, THk, etc. (Design the machine avoid from derbis) . 😉
You made this on my birthday, THANKS!
Nice to see another F1 fan.
the linear rail alignment tool gave me an idea for my Cetus clone project thx, its almost done all i need to do is make the y axis belt return and the y end-stop.
Unless those alignment tools are precision made, and the frame is aligned precisely they are as much use as an ashtray on a motorcycle..
@@Pilotltd it does not mater they only need to be consistent
@@henry67278 If they differ by even a thou - you have a thou misalignment over the distance you have them apart.
@@Pilotltd yes but if they are the same gcode file printed twice they are identical and don't tell me otherwhise
Henry McCausland I very much doubt that...
Michael, I actually changed out my Y axis with the linear rails from 3dfused...this didn't help with my EZABL issue, but figured it wouldn't hurt. I like mine so far and don't have to worry about my rollers being too tight. I was going to relocate my main board and pi to the back bottom like you had in a video, but the 3dfused rotates the Y axis motor so it takes that space up in the middle. So now I will just put my pi in your pi rail case. Non-Pro Ender 3. Only other problem is getting the Y-endstop from moving and missing the bed. I might have to try this for these axis.
I'm going to test this one as well but do intend to add upgraded belts (wider, double supported pulleys, also for the motor side) and if that doesn't offer any effect I also want to try to use a high helix spindle setup. I don't think the setup allows you to get everything out of the linear rails because the frame and the driving elements have to much backlash/flexibility. Still a valid test though, under more reasonable circumstances. What I plan to do is pretty much designing and building a new printer.
3D Printers do a lot of very jerky motions, that coupled with light AND rigid frame causes issues with resonances. Either 3D printers should start to move towards servo motors (they allow very smooth acceleration and deceleration) + better tool paths that are inherently continuous and minimize jerky movements, or you'll need more mass to dampen vibrations. More mass means bigger machine and bigger motors etc.
I would wager that the main source of ringing in belt-driven axes is probably in stretching of the belts themselves as the machine accelerates, also with Prusa-style moving Y axis printers, the bed-suspension springs and the Y axis carriage plate themselves are a huge source of unwanted movement - neither of these would be improved by adding linear rails.
The fact those kits came with rubber washers to allow for flex between the rail and the carriage is somewhat concerning - what is the point of precision components in the travel mechanism if you're just going to include compliance in to compensate for misalignments, (granted, getting two linear rails to run perfectly parallel with no binding is rather difficult because theoretically two rails overconstrains the movement...) you might as well stick with V slots and contact wheels.
I bet that in order to take full advantage of linear rails you really need to design the printer with that level of precision in mind.
You are the ONE that essentially also caught that! The rubber that allows for free-form movement equivalent of POM wheels, but on precise linear rails kind of undermines what this expensive / complex upgrade is trying to achieve! You are essentially upgrading this for the benefit of "lower maintenance liability"
One question I have is whether changing to linear rails made the printer sound different? I know you've done many videos in the past on replacing mainboards and stepper drivers, which have a huge impact on print quality and sound. Did replacing the hard rubber wheels with rails make it sound any different when doing long or short movements? TIA!
Why did you disassembled the top frame in order to slide the rail? Those T-Nuts can slide into the T-Slot of the frame if put horizontally.. as you apply some torque to the screews their respective T-Nuts twists and binds againt the walls of the frame's inner tslot and stop twisting... thus, tightening the rail...
i definitely lost build volume from the ender 3 x axis install! as this moved the hotend forward the thickness of a linear rail i cant make it to the back of the build plate now and the belt skips trying to do so. also moving the ending stop on the build plate is also a give away that it has lost build volume.
Can you test smooth idlers vs toothed idlers to see how it affects the low frequency artifacts on the print?
Really wish you would've addressed things such as long term service and wear.
If you install a linear rail of unknown flatness/straightness to a extrusion of unknown flatness/straightness you risk getting twice as imprecise. Unless you want to keep shooting blind, get yourself a dial gage + granite plate. There can't be any improvement if you can't measure it.
V-rollers wear out and I think you might see a bigger difference if you compared against worn out v-rollers. Is that a fair comparison, well not when the machine is new but when its time to replace the v-rollers, linear rails might be a good way to go, given your frame imperfections are not transferred to the print that is as mentioned.
PrinterMods seems to be out of business or some issue as of this post. Any other sources for an Ender 5 Linear rail kit?
I am guessing, but I would expect the improvements would come over time, in that the V roller wheels would degrade over time, and this wouldnt be the case with the rails. As well, as long as your V rollers are centered and running true , you wouldnt see an improvement, but if they got Loose, they are more likely to introduce errors.
all theoretical of course.
I think you've summed it up nicely.
I would say no, the limitations of accuracy vs price is problematic vs a shaft. Just go to 10mm or more instead, a circular slide is always better than a few balls with bad tolerance. With that said they are better vs a bad shaft but they provide although a noisy build a somewhat good result. The fact that most commercial printer does not use these is not only cost dependent but a linear rail mau require a lot of tuning and not something for the first builder really, they often have a slack in the transverse axis so they could provide a line step in other directions than axial so they often need additional work. Noise is also a problem, a shaft with igus bearings is dead silent, linear rails rattle a lot
Didn't know Esteban Ocon is into 3D printing! Nice
Your description says an x-axis linear adaptor is only required for the Ender 5, but at 11:45 you mention a 3D printed adapter for the Ender 3 X-axis. Where can I find this file to print?
Edit: Found the link here printermods.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/60000606385-linear-rail-printable-files
Generally better: no.
Better than plastic wheels grinding away in the extrusion: yes.
i had issues on one of my cr10s pro v2, y-axis started having bumps after few prints all the time. after linear rails i havent adjusted it once. you can also design and print the adapters and only buy the linear rails.
If there's a zero net gain it quality, the fact that there's much less to maintain would be worth it. The linear rails won't get loose over time. I can't imagine that there's any time that you can disassemble and reassemble your hot end assembly without having to set your Z offset again. There's just too much play in that hardware. What about your bed leveling numbers? Have you noticed a difference in how "warped" your bed may be? I suspect that what a lot of people see as a warped bed is actually warped 2020 extrusions.
Great stuff pal, i've watched a few of your vids now and all's good. Liked and subbed :)
When a belt system is set up perfectly, it will work similarly well as a linear rail system, obviously. The advantage is when the belt system is "off" somewhat, which can happen in a variety of ways. The linear rail just has less moving parts, so less things can go wrong. So setting them up perfectly and then comparing them is kind pointless
I got the ender 3 X-axis rails because of the placement of the DIY housing for all the electronics in a modular enclosure. It benefited by having a rigid drag chain on top of the X-axis extrusion which opens up after removing the wheels. Otherwise i would have kept it stock.
Thank you for the honest Review!
Just got my ender 3 built and tuned in and I’m 30 minutes into my first “cat” print
Those nuts you have to put in the profile first, so don’t need to disassemble the whole machine.