Barry Harris SAVED me from learning the Bebop Scale.
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- Опубліковано 29 лис 2024
- Download supplementary worksheet with these rules written out for you (free): jazz-library.c...
Barry Harris 4 half-step rules for playing dominant scales.
This exercise, perhaps more than any other, gave me that authentic bebop sound. Barry was such a master, and these half-step rules completely removed any need for me to ever play a bebop scale again.
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The brief excerpt of Barry's instruction comes from the channel BarryHarrisVideos. Watch the full video here: • Half step rules on dom...
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No worries man,it comes down to rhythm and how well one can roll with it,doesn't even matter really about extra notes, its how well a player can squeeze them in,as a bassist 😏 I like to spice things up sometimes with outside notes and chromatic stuff etc,that's why I dig the bebop scales like the mixoblues ,HW dim,alt,etc,but I did watch the rest of this vid,I hear ur concept, it all works,its all jazz 👍cheers 😎
Most of what bird played for instance, cant be fitted neatly into a scale, and thinking scalarly only adds a lot of unuseful overhead. Barry knew this this is why his method works and why he is so highly revered and considered one of the GOATs
Very well said!
You don't think these scale rules are alot to process?
I consider him a goat because of his playing on Spartacus love theme with Yusuf lateef ❤
@@christopherpi2010 its simpler than the berklee method of chord scale that most people teach
I love Barry Harris - needs to be more widely known!!! 👏👏👏
100%. That’s why I’m doing this! Let’s do it!
Hes like the most famous jazz instructor of all time. I think we're incredibly fortunate that he lived as long as he did, and as a result the internet has been able to bring a TON of eyes to his genius. Unfortunately in 2024 jazz is well past its prime and this is as good as it gets, barring a Roy Hargrove or something. I'm forever thankful theres so much of Barry's wisdom and genius documented through records and these lessons.
Great video, Thanks Josh.
May I suggest (re)ordering the rules? I am trying to find some mnemotechnics to capture them more easily.
Rule #0
- Add no (0) half step for non-chord tones (dominant 7th scale).
Rule #1
- Add one (1) half step between 7 & 1 for chord tones (Bebop Dominant Scale).
Rule #2
- Add two (2) half steps between 7-1, 2-1 for non-chord tones. (tweaking rule #0)
Rule #3
- Add three (3) half steps between 7-1, 2-1 and 3-2 for 3, 5 and 7 - (tweaking rule #1)
Hey Setrar. Interesting idea, I see how this could be intuitive. But these aren’t my rules, and I want to respect Barry’s way of teaching it. So I kept the same order. I really like this thinking and appreciate the comment!
I was in Barry’s class when I was 5. He’d love the video!❤
Barry Maj6Dim and his others are the same as the David Baker Bebop scales just a naming difference. Then the rules Barry said in one of his videos what note you add really doesn't matter as long as you add note(s) to get the chord tones on the rhythm. Also been sick this week so kicking back reading some of my old articles and such. The subject of Barry came up and what I was read a lot of Barry's concept he actually got from hanging around with Monk. That the core group that hung out and played and occasional talked music was Dizzy, Bird, Monk, Powell, and Barry was alway around. Von Freeman from Chicago name pops up too. It's well know Bird and Monk never talked music or theory they would play you an answer but not talk about it. Even Dizzy said he was closer to Bird than anyone and he and Bird never talked music they just played. But from what I was reading Monk was the person where a lot of these concepts started. Monk and Barry both lived at Baroness Pannonica de Koenigswarter place at that same time so Barry was exposed to a lot of Monk's playing.
Something I picked up from sax player who was around later is a lot of reason those guys didn't talk theory was because different people studied different approaches or were totally ear players. If you heard them play something then can hang whatever theory labels you want on what you heard. Makes sense even today I see spats between traditional theory and Jazz theory people and even in the Jazz world difference between how different schools teach.
The more I think about how the old cats viewed it as "if you heard it, you got the answer" is the best way to learn, listen, listen, listen.
Awesome comment. Thanks man!
Also - great point about the added half steps. Indeed they are just rhythmic placeholders and the actual notes you use can change. I thought that might be too much to add for this video…
I did a live stream last week where we talked about exactly that. Super helpful!
Also - about playing by ear vs theory, playing by ear is probably the best approach to sound authentic, actually.
Theory can, at best, try to describe what someone played. But it’ll never be able to be fully accurate. Helpful academically, but if you just want to play, you may even learn more by imitating than by studying theory.
Maybe that’s a video in and of itself.
Great exchange, thanks.
@@JoshWalshMusic Also known as passing notes. Bird pretty much played any note he wants just as long as he resolves it i.e. comes back to a chord tone.
@@JoshWalshMusic i feel like it's possible to think about added half steps not purely as functional solutions to rhythmic problems but also/rather for their expressive potential, the way they add color, not to mention the likely genealogy that connects their usage by bebop players to the "blue notes" of the blues tradition from which jazz emerged.
I Don't if you know how much important is express your feelings and thoughts in such way truthful, sincerely and with humble honest without egotrips and egoenpowerment
Barry es el mejor profesor de jazz del mundo por siempre. Gracias por compartir sus ideas,
Thank you this is really helpful. I'm just getting into bebop.
what you didn't say clearly is that rule 3 and 4 are choices, not necessity, that can be used instead of rule 1 and 2 depending or where you want to finish. I think that is how it works. Thank you
“Rules” was the word Barry used, so it’s what I use when teaching his method. But indeed yes, these are more like options or even just guidelines.
@@JoshWalshMusic sorry, I was being too detailed, too quickly, now that I have played through on my sax, its probably mostly good to do exactly as you have explained. Thank you.
This is the best video on bebop scales ive seen, but no video I've come across teaches the way I learned bebop in college. This isn't a knock on you or your ability, I'm just addressing a different perspective.
Your approach is good because it addresses moving scalular and showing students off the bat how to play it properly. I'll add that beats 1 and 3 are most important to land a chordal note.
I was also taught things like upper lower neighbor ideas, and all of them also capable of being different. Example: FM7 in the key of F landing on A- I hit B, Ab, A, OR Bb, Ab, A, OR Bb, G, A, to which you can reverse the order to lower upper neighbor
I was also taught to think solely of the chord( as an exercise) but think in relation of it as a 9 but use the same concepts. In other words, don't think scales think arpeggios as an isolation. C9 chord could be B, A, Bb, B, C, C#,D. I'm not thinking scales at this point just chord relation (a better explanation further down). Finally, you have double chromatic. Want to go to the note G but you are starting on E? Try E, F, F#, G. OR starting on Bb? Try Bb, A, Ab, G.
5 ways to practice this:
1)What you mentioned in your video in all twelve keys
2) Arpeggios in 12 keys
3)Omnibook. Take the Charlie Parker omni book and analyze a piece in its entirety. Part 1) analyze everything in scales and arpeggios. Since its bebop you can say: Ab Mixolydian, Gb Lydian, Ab mixolydian, Bebop scale, Db Major Arpeggio etc etc to get your point across. This includes sequences. Sequences may be hidden within your scale analysis. Sequences are huge in bebop and I think Clifford Brown is the king of that. Part 2) Redo your analysis but every note has a relationship to the chord. Earlier I said B, A, Bb, B, C, C#, D. I would say label each note like this H, 13, 7, H, R, b9, 9. H means chromatic 7 in my personal notation and R is root
4) steal licks from omnibook.
5) everything you learn, including songs need to be in 12 keys. You realize common themes very quickly.
6) transcribe. Learn the sound of your favorite players. Learn their favorite licks, licks you enjoy, and their fallback sound that makes the player sound like them. Ex: Lee Morgan ( i don't play Trumpet so excuse my ignorance) does this whiny, bendy sound on his horn all the time. I hear it and I immediately know it's Lee Morgan.
Bebop scales are so important for 2 reasons. Part 1) you can make something sound more diatonic using bebop scales than if you just play the actual major or minor scale. Chromaticism is to emphasize chordal notes. Its part of the reason bebop at times can have a bit of a cheesy feel and part of what can give it such an old sound (even if it's younger than other styles). Part 2) bebop is the first step to learning how to play really outside the changes and making it sound good. If you bebop, you are likely doing things you aren't even aware of. Example: Bb7- i play C#, D, E, F, G, Ab. All I've done is chromatically arpeggiate the chord. But check it out, if I then play Bb, B I've suddenly completed the altered scale. An ommission of notes can imply lots of things. So if it was BbM7, and I did C#, D, E, F, G, B, A, Bb I technically didn't play Bb altered (That's a scale for dominant chords) but I definitely gave it that sound for a second. But what if I got ballsy and did play it? I'm now taking risks with the reward of controlling the sound of the tune- very similar to how miles did this with So What. He used the solo to tell you he was in D Dorian by playing B natural, not Bb. Also, if you understand that, then get even ballsier. Play F altered over BbM7 and then resolve to BbM7.
Bebop is arguably a series of tension and resolve. You can get really out there if you land properly. That all starts with using chromaticism in your solo to emphasize proper notes
Edit: forgot to add. Chromaticism also allows us to know which notes are important - mainly R 3 5 7. In that sense, any other notes is flavoring. You can technically use chromaticism to create new scales and use non chordal notes as if they were correct. Similar to Miles on So What, B natural was used to determine the sound. Dminor 7 is just D f a c. Its ambiguous. At that point, d f a c e g b , e g b specifically can be changed. If Miles can turn a Bb into a B Natural to show we aren't actually in D minor, why not change other upper extensions as well, especially if you intend to resolve. That starts with chromaticism and we learn that through Bebop scales.
2nd edit: This is two weeks later but ill add another way to practice that i used to do religiously in college but forgot to mention here: when learning to apply bebop scales, write out a ton of solos. It helps you create licks and vocabulary and likely you will easily memorize it. Writing solos allows you to create licks that land on the right notes at the right time.
Add on since people enjoy this:
Always practice your ii V I chord progressions and eventually make it iii VI ii V I. See if you can imply this over everything. 4 bars of F, then the 5th bar is an Eb? Play adim-D7b9 gm-C7 FM7 Fm7-Bb7 to land on Eb. If you master this you are really getting bebop. Enjoy! Remember, just like rhythm changes you can make that progression implied as dominant chords and then play cool scales like whole tone and altered over it. Example: A7 D7 G7 C7 FM7. Arguably, bebop is a style that wants to tonicize everything!
Know all you major scales, altered, diminished, whole tone, natural minor and harmonic minor. Thats a good starting point.
Great video! I love your channel!
I play jazz on Tiktok @YardbirdSweet. Check me out and perhaps we can have improv discussions!
Comment of the year!!
Theres some jewels in this comment.
@@thyggs thank you. I'm always serious about helping others learn jazz. I learned in a toxic environment and i wish I had better guidance. Though I'm happy with music and achieved a level of playing I strived for, I was bitter for years because of inappropriate gatekeeping. If you have questions or just want to discuss improv, message me anytime
Thank you so much for spending the time laying that info out here. Really valuable info for SURE. ❤ 😀
@@okcsticksandkeys lol every few months someone comments on this post. Afterwards, I end up reviewing and adding something I forgot to talk about. I just did an update. I'm glad you enjoyed it.
This is brilliant thanks Josh!
Tim thanks! An honor to have your ear in our little community. Happy Holidays.
Great lesson. The rules of bebop can be summed up as follows: "Play chord tones on the beat".
All else follows.
"First there was Rhythm"
Just like all the rules of counterpoint can be summed up as follows "No parallel fifths"
Totally. I felt the same way didn’t bother with bebop scales. I’m glad Barry Harris agrees. What’s odd though is that legends like Bergonzi teach bebop scales. I guess different strokes. Also allot of really nice lines have actually have the chromatic notes on the downbeat. Music is awesome.
I think bebop scales are just one of many nice tools you can add to the arsenal, but (like all of them) shouldn't be overused.
@@jamesmunroe6558 💯
This is an eye opener for me - It's helped me to increasingly put the jigsaw together, thank you Josh 👍😊
Andrew that’s awesome! Thanks for sharing.
@@JoshWalshMusic 👍😊
Bill Graham in the ATL has an informative tutorial re same
@@johnnyblue1101 Couldn't ind it on here?
Bill Graham - Barry Harris bebop method
A solution to this problem that bird used all the time was starting with the 1 as an 8th note, on the downbeat, followed by the 7 and 6 being two 16th notes landing on the 5 on the downbeat finishing off the scale as 8th notes. In this context it seems bird was most concerned with outlining the triad. Obviously this wasn't always the case (we all know bird loved chromaticism) but it is interesting that are heaps of examples of bird blazing past the 7 and 6 so he can really outline the triad.
Now here is something really useful! And...I'm going to do just that. Thank you for your conciseness!
Thanks for the nice comment, MJP!
vital information taught here...very good tutorial. Thank You! 💯💯💯💯💢💥💢💥
That's astonishing! It's already physically and mentally demanding to be able to play scales all over the bass as a double bassist, and improv is a minefield. I see how a lot of lines work from transcribing the likes of Paul Chambers, etc. But to have these actual determiners is amazing. Thank you, Mr. Harris, and Mr. Walsh🙏
Some of the best Jazz piano lessons on UA-cam! I feel like I genuinely learn something new with every upload, keep it up!
This can be simplified to two rules (my personal thought process),
1.) Use all of the chromatics mentioned from all rules combined, including the standard half step between notes 5 and 6 (Bebop).
2.) And use rule 2 as an alternative, which is a non-chromatic rule (plain diatonic). For non-chord tones for supplemental variety.
To me this is a more simplified, memorable, practical approach to applying these rules on the fly, for all dominant related chords.
Don't get me wrong though, his explanation of the 4 rules helps with overall understanding and reasoning (Chord tone/down beat related Theory)
Your welcome.!
Thanks for the clear explanation! Your videos are great!
I think that a lot of critigue of bebop scale is based on incomprehension of what the bebop scale really is. That added major 7 (or minor 6 in major scales) is just a spacer, not a fixed scale step as all the other steps. You can either add it or not add it depending on a situation. So "bebop scale" is not a scale (paradox) it is just a horizontal way to play a chord = in it' s simplest form, so you have chord tones on downbeats Just take a look at David Baker's 3 part book "How to play bebop" and you'll find the answer to "how to play it from 9" in the Volume 1. You can insert a half step or do an approach phrase (with as many notes as you need), whatever. It's as simple as this: from any non-chord tone return to the chord tone as soon as possible. So David Baker says in the first Volume of his books: if you start on a 9 just insert a half step to get down to the 1. And you're in the rhythm again. If you start on a beat on 6, you play up to 1 and then back down to 7 and you're in the rhythm again (or you play 6, down to 4 then up to 7 - even Barry says in one of his clips that it's really up to you what note do you make that 'spacer' - and these third up/down jumps are very common in bebop phrases). I love Barry Harris as we all do. He's genius. But his "half step rules" are way too complicated for me. Too many things to remember (I mean amount of halfsteps depending on starting interval in a scale). In reality the rule is quite simple: put chord tones on downbeats (in the purest form). End of theory. You don't need any more rules...And if you dig deeper you'll find that it's just an universal rule of music, that's how the gravity works. Just take a look at Mozart's Rondo Alla Turca and check what notes he puts on strong beats in that 16th note passage and compare them to chords in the left hand. No chromatics but he clearly spells those chords! Magic. What's really interesting is that if you take Barry Harris methods and apply them directly to "bebop scale" you get alternating dominant and minor 6 chords (as opposed to dominand and diminished chords in Barry's dominant scale which has minor 6 interval in it). So in a way you still have alternating tonic and dominant tonalities. For example G7 bebop scale has G7 and Am6 alternating, and this Am6 is just an important minor of D7 (D9) as Barry says. So you have kinda G7-D9 alternating. Interesting, isn't it ;) All is connected. Music exists regardless of names and tags.
Very well said, Chris. Thanks for taking the time to share that.
And indeed, the pitch of those extra notes hardly matters. As you said, it’s more the rhythmic places they hold.
@@JoshWalshMusic I believe it was Barry Harris who' said that at one of his late workshops after listening to what his students were doing with those "spacer" notes. He used to say he's the oldest student in the class. Awesome spirit.
Best comment!
I think Pat Martino’s minor conversions help add the chromatic notes needed to be on time as well, without explaining how they do it, in linear expressions (his book)
Great book, but I need to refresh myself with it. Thanks for the suggestion.
@@JoshWalshMusic yeah it is. A lot of minor lines with chromatic
This was really well explained. However one thing I still find unclear, and maybe it’s an issue with all of jazz piano as a whole: surely when we improvise we’re not just picking a scale for each chord and running through it in order, right? Because then the entire solo willjust sound like a bunch of mismatched scales? (even your example at the start doesn’t run through a scale on the D-7.)
So how do I use this knowledge? Are there certain times when we should just run through a scale, or is there some concept of picking a scale and then improvising ideas based off of that? (In which case how is this video useful, since the whole rhythm of where notes are will be different?)
Awesome comment. Jazz is different from classical in the sense that we practice differently than we perform. We use techniques like this in order to be diligent in our practice and train our ears and hands to new techniques. But when we perform / improvise, we don't consciously think about these rules at all. We just rely on our ears and hands, which have now been better trained.
So, if you listen to Barry play, you hear these ideas come out in his solos, but not so literally as just playing the scale. But I guarantee that's how he practiced.
Make sense? BTW, I keep a speed cube on my piano at all times. :-D
You need to think of jazz playing like a language. A child learns words I guess, but they only learn expression and unique sentence formation through mimicry.
Similarly, you only learn jazz really from listening to it and transcribing it constantly. It starts to seep into your playing after time. You don't need to over-academia it by studying every rhythm hit and note. The greats didn't, they just learned from listening and copying, and eventually their own sound came out.
Thanks for the help guys! That makes sense. Just to clarify some details:
So, @@JoshWalshMusic , if it is not my improvisation but my *practice* that uses these scales, then how do I practically use the scales when practicing? Is it like described above/in the video where I just play a straight scale over each chord (presumably at a slower tempo so I can consciously think about these things), and listen to that to get a feel for it?
Also, I respect the piano cube grind, pretty much the same for me :P
@@EpiCuber7 you got it. Practice it exactly as shown here until you can do it automatically, then let it show up in your performing naturally.
This weeks video (coming soon) will be really relevant to this discussion.
U R U’ R’ U’ F’ U F
Rule #1 says to play the bebop scale when starting on a chord tone. Rule #3 says to add two more half steps when starting from a 3, 5, or 7. But 3, 5, & 7 ARE chord tones. So these rules conflict with each other.
Hey. They aren’t in conflict, but Barry calling them “rules” is perhaps not the clearest. They are more like “options you can consider”
So not in conflict, you can do either one depending on how you feel in the moment.
Wrong is right - monk
Interesting stuff and thanks for sharing. I’m trying to play less linear scale runs. I had scales drilled into me at Berklee and I want them out!
Why?! Are you saying your solo lines are too scale - linear? I think we all have “go to patterns” that we’d like to expand out of. Just gotta practice new. experiments!
Appreciate your comment.
@@JoshWalshMusic I don’t want to sound like I’m practicing scales over the changes.
@@Miroshen I get it, really. The purpose of these is to give you things to practice, so, in my humble opinion, these are intended for exactly that reason. Things to practice, but not rules to follow literally when you perform.
I love your style hope talk soon
Top tips 👍, makes a lot of sense. Thanks Josh very helpful and thanks for the free sheet too 😁🎹🤘👍
Thanks as always, Martyn!
Hi Josh, just to let you know there is a audio sync problem. I saw this on another video some years back. I think you need to contact youtube and let them now. It may have been fine when you first uploaded it but there's now a delay. Check it out @5:30 when you hit the D note on the way down. I also noticed a delay at the start of the video. Great video though!
Marco - you are correct. This was actually my fault. At the time I had a recording issue that I missed until it was uploaded. I’ve since fixed the issue. Appreciate it.
Great Vid. But fyi - you have a midi loop (or an audio loop) on the keyboard which causes that phasing/weird octave jumping.
Edison - I appreciate you pointing that out. I think it's actually in the Keyscape sample. I hear it too, even when I play live. I think it has to do with some of the overtone samples loading, and other ones not. Probably something a big expensive computer would fix HAHA.
Beautiful 👌🏽👌🏽. Simple, clear, and practical.
Barry saved my reputation in school
Hi,could You save me?
I need protection from the ubiquitous taboo about harmonic Major/ionian b6
harmonic Major is very interesting for several reasons
firstly, we have a few rootless dominants in it
not only in the seventh degree
(but these roots are nondiatonic,what opportunities does it give us?)
second, we have several different tonic chords for one scale degree
(on few degrees,not all)
if we omit the rule of 3rd chord construction.
For example C harm Major,iii degree
we have chords:
e,g,b - minor chord
e,a-flat,b - Major chords for the same scale
e,a-flat,c- augmented chord
3 chords for one scale
what scale is this?Minor or Major?
Minor phrygian,Major phrygian and augmented phrygian?
or dimminished phrygian scale?
Because we have b2,b3 and b4...
Harmonic minor was created to solve the problem of natural minor - ok
melodic minor was created to solve the problem of harmonic minor - ok
who,when and what for create harm Major?
(if noone use it,even for teaching)
Great question, and I have no idea how to answer it in a comment! 😬
@@JoshWalshMusic Fantastic, because that means you have no choice
and you have to commit videos about it :D
There's absolutely nothing wrong with implying an Em7 over a D7 (which, indeed, as you say, doesn't imply it) as long as you understand that what you're creating is a suspended sound that should then be resolved. This is also true when you play a descending line starting from the 6: the resulting b7maj7 is in fact the upper extension of the Dsus13. Again, it's about understanding the effect you're creating and where it fits in the big picture.
Just remember that for chord tones there should be an *odd* number of half steps and for non-chord tones there should be an *even* number of chord tones
Do you mean an even number of half steps?
Hey when I wrote some bop licks (because I was personally examining that approach) in Gary Peacock's theory class in the early 80s he replied "well you can do that if you really want". Well I did want for awhile but I ended up writing and playing music that's not a bunch of Up 4 down 5 progressions much more Wayne/Kenny Wheeler, so straight bop approach won't produce the results I'm looking for. I mean there's always something to learn from everything really and those rules you're talking about will make you sound like 1955. But it's also ok if Kenny Wheeler or other more advanced cats is more your thing. Also things go in waves back in the late 70s at IU for instance all the best players were obsessed with free free free and original jazz okay now that few play free it's like Frickin bebop. But here's what's true the best Like David Holland etc can do both really well. Because ☯️
Pax - indeed, this is going to make you sound like 1950. It’s a lesson about playing with the greats in the 50s.
Of course, as you say, it’s important for us to find our own sound and modernize it for today.
Personally, I find so much of todays playing inspired by these old guys. That tradition of passing it down is important.
Great lesson! Could you please make a tutorial also on Barry Harris elevator concept and some practical applications, it’s a mistery to me 😊
Francesco - Oh that's a great topic! I'm going to really consider this.
what's the elevator?
@@charlesperforms it’s a movement using borrowed chords. I have a video out on borrowed diminished notes on dominants in the Barry playlist, but I guess this is 2 votes for an Elevator video!
Can I get a 3rd?!
Here is the 3rd! Your Barry Harris videos are so great!
@@francisrichard5282 ok okay!!!
Add 1 or 3 half steps (descending from 6, 8, 10, etc;) add none or 2 half steps (descending from 7, 9, 11, etc.)
Great vid thanks. Little suggestion, theres some weird octave displacement happenening in the piano audio, like rouge pitch correction. Its a little distracting, maybe worth investigating. Otherwise many thanks.
Yeah, this is an old video. Turns out there was a glitch in the VST I was using which has since been fixed. Thanks!
Thanks
Really want to learn how to apply this. I’m struggling uggg
Was supposed to study with Barry before he became ill
I don't quote get it. Wouldn't rule #2 and #4 always be applied together since the criteria for both are the same (starting on non chord tone : 2,4,6).
And isn't rule #2 unnecessary at that point?
Nice overal concept though I'll try to implement it into my Impros once I've grasped it :P
Greetings from Berlin and thx for putting this Info out there 🙏
“Rules” is the term Barry used. I’d say it’s more like “options to consider.”
They don’t contradict, but either can be played in the same situation.
@@JoshWalshMusic wonderful, thanks for answering so quickly ❤️ now it makes sense 😙
Would you use this only on dominant chords? Is there an equivalent, a similar concept, but on Major chords? And on Minor chords?
These rules are specifically for dominant chords, and only descending. Look up his 6th diminished scales, there’s a video here on the channel about it in my Barry playlist.
Thanks for watching.
in your example line are you switching to a different dominant scale for each chord, or are you just playing D7 for the whole thing and hitting the chord tones of the chords playing by using the different rules???
You use the dominant scale that relates to the dominant chord you are playing. So the scale changes when the dominant changes.
But, in a ii-V, you just play the same scale over both. Barry used to say you just play 5 when you see 2-5. So, if it were Am - D7, you'd just play D7 over both.
@@JoshWalshMusic Thankyou!
I like Barry Harris but never thought about him as anii-bebop scale... The part that escapes in those "line up with a downbeat" type of argument nobody ever play scales as Solis - so what does it matter if there are extra notes there?
What a great lesson! New sub!
Great to have you with us, George!
Great, thanks
Howdy, how do we contact you? I have a few discoveries about Barry’s method I’d like to chat about. Thanks
Shoot me a dm on IG, or email josh (at) jazz-library dot-com.
@@JoshWalshMusic email on the way!
Great stuff. I had to watch twice to digest it. But I'm very confused about something: What's the difference between Rules 2 and 4? They are both for non-chord tones.
Rule 2 adds no half steps, and Rule 2 adds half steps between 1 & 7, and 2 & 1.
@@JoshWalshMusic Yeah, after my class with Chris Parks I understand that you can choose between the 2 rules for each case.
Conceptually this video helped a lot but I'm not doing what you and Barry say or the bebop scale. I will essentially use any chromatic I need to get back in time
Bravo thats the spirit
I'm confused with rule #3 you only add half steps on the higher octave
This is actually true of all 4 rules, it’s just most obvious in rule 3. The purpose of the half steps (or other rhythmic placeholders) is to get you notes lined up for the end of the line. Basically, to set things up so lines end with the important notes on the beat.
Actually, I haven't played a blues scale, a bebop scale, or a jazz scale in almost 20 years. (truthfully I never learned the bebop scale- haha). cheers
The blues scale is so useful though! Especially the major blues scale. What’s your aversion?
The bebop scale is a invention by one educator. Why knock him? He wrote some cool books.
I would'nt call them "rules" but more like "resources". Anyway, great video. Is there any book he wrote to find these tricks? Or is it old school just sharing from people to people?
Ezequiel - I agree with you on “rules.” I think of them more like “fingering rules” which are used to train you, but we deviate from them all the time. These are practice rules used to drill these sounds into your head and hands, so you can use them creatively when you improvise.
Barry put out a workshop DVD set which is excellent and on his website. Alan Kingstone wrote a great book too, for guitar, but the ideas translate nicely to the piano.
The best direct source is his UA-cam channel BarryHarrisVideos which has recordings of many of his workshops. But those move fast. Part of my goal with this channel is to make those lessons approachable to the casual player… Barry was hard to keep up with.
Great Video thanks, always wonderful to learn from you and him in combiniation. Unfortunately I never made it to met him.
It seems like in the Video is something messes up with the Audio. Id check the part at 5:50 (Rule #2) again. I hear one note more than I see.
Thanks Phil. The audio is fine, but I didn’t always play the line all the way down. The end of the scale is always the same, so sometimes I end on beat one to stay in rhythm.
Great ear!!!
@@JoshWalshMusic Ah okay, thanks for taking the time!
Great Video, really!
hmm, Barry Harris, always interesting looking forward to it. isn't that the guy with the 6ths?
Same guy!
Thank you for showing this concept. I try to study it and have a question: when you solo with this family of 4 dom. and for example play Bb7 over G7 do you also venture to play Bb7 dominant scale (Eb major) over it or is it too much and this concept does not stretch that far (it would be too many “wrong”/outside notes) ? Thanks for answer in advance.
You totally can think Bb7 entirely over G7. Not many wrong notes at all. It’s definitely an altered sound, but they work. The main note to be careful of in G7 is the C natural.
@@JoshWalshMusic Thanks! The same apply to the rest of the family? Can you play whole Db7 dom scale and E7 dom scale as well when alternating G7?
By the way I love this concept. I study tritone subs very hard and this fits perfectly as Db7 -> tritone of G7 and Bb7->tritone of E7 -> relative minor of G7.
@@bajtucha were venturing outside of territory where rules dictate what you can / can’t do. So much depends on the melody and harmonic context. So try it and see!
It seems like rule 3&4 contradict/overrides 1&2 in a way....
Rule #1 says when we play from any chord tone to add the Maj 7 passing tone but then #3 comes in and says oh yeah but, not if you're playing the 3 5 or 7....
So in this way rule #1 is ONLY when you start on the root? For any other chord tone rule #3 comes in, so why even bother practicing rule #1 on the 3, 5, 7 when you're instead going to apply rule #3 and never even use #1 off the other chord tones??? lol
Rule #2 states to not add any passing tones when starting on a non chord tone but, the non chord tones would be 2, 4, 6 in which case rule #4 comes in and says to add passing tones between 7-1 and 1-2.... so which is it going to be? lol
I have to be missing something here... this also only addresses one flavor of chord. We still have minor bebop scales, major bebop scales, and I think I remember learning about a diminished one in music school as well.
All of this to say, I know if I went into a time machine and asked Charlie Parker himself about this topic he would wonder why the heck we're trying to compartmentalize bebop like this LOL.
🤣
In all seriousness though, if I could have these points clarified I'd greatly appreciate it!
I think you may be taking “rule” too literally. These are different option to pick from. You can totally play #1 and #3 both starting from the 5th.
But what do you do when you want to include skips, arpeggios, rests, different rhythms, or start a scale on an upbeat. Are there rules for that as well? Do I have to learn them all before I can improvise successfully? Hmm...
Hey Rainer - Great question, and two thoughts come to mind.
1. I think "rules" was maybe too strong of a word. These are more like guideposts for you to follow. They are used when you practice to train you, but not followed so strictly when you perform.
2. The extra notes that these rules don't really matter harmonically. They are basically just rhythmic placeholders. If you listen to Barry play, you'll hear that he often substitutes other notes instead of the ones from the rules, but that he keeps the placeholders in the same place rhythmically.
You make very good videos. One question I always have whenever I encounter this is, do these rules imply that whatever note you start on you just play the scale sequentially up or down. It's not really how anyone actually plays them, and it makes me feel sometimes the whole "rule" thing is overthought
Hey Frank. Totally. You aren’t the first one to say that here in the comments either.
“Rules” are how Barry taught it, but I’m certain he didn’t mean “you must play this way.”
I think of these more like practice etudes to train our ears and hands, but we wouldn’t literally make a solo just using these rules.
That said… Barry played them often in his solos…
@@JoshWalshMusic thanks for your reply. I agree, I find when I practice bop scales from different intervals for example, I don't play them up and down when improvising, but the more I practice them the more my playing sounds "authentic". Really good channel you have
I feel like the entire problem with bebop scales is that it promotes linear scalar playing, because the entire concept hinges on you playing a scale straight up or down uninterrupted, which just isn’t a very interesting line.
Gabi - that’s true, but these are more practice techniques than performance techniques. You’d do more interesting things with them when you perform, for sure.
I’ve been hearing so much fuzz about these bebop scales only to find out that they are basic scales with like one odd degree. Like the major bebop scale is just a major scale with an added flat 6/ sharp 5. How come that is so divisive? Is it because it cultivates the wrong mindset. The notes seem pretty normal to me.
Thanks for the great exercise; definitely helpful in navigating the bebop sound.. once you have it under your fingers it is a lot simpler than it seems
Agreed. When I was prepping for this video, I was thinking to myself… wow this seems a lot harder than it actually is!
@@JoshWalshMusic on first viewing of the video, i stopped at rule #3. Doesn't seem very likely one can have all this in their mind when soloing..
@@ben17012 indeed, you can’t. You have to have trained your ears and your hands so the ideas come to you naturally as you play. Great comment and thanks for helping me clarify that.
I don't get it. It sounds like rule #3 and #4 can be followed but are optional, when rule #1 and #2 already work on their own. Rule #4 nullifies rule #2, doesn't it? And rule #3 makes rule #1 only apply if you start on the root. [EDIT] After trying out, I do understand. This gives you options: Root -> rule #1. Other chord tones (3, 5, 7) -> rule #1 or #3. Non-chord tones -> rule #2 or #4.
I said “rule” because it’s what Barry called them. But indeed, they are more “options.” They don’t contradict, but are just 2 different options for the same situation.
Yep, he learn 4 bebop scales 😂
You don’t need to learn bebop scale, cause it’s just your regular scale with an extra inflection note either on the third, sixth, or seventh
Don't the 2nd and 4th rules contradict each other? When are you supposed to use one or the other?
So do 1&3! These aren’t rules of what you HAVE to play, but an option for what you CAN play. Heck there are plenty of times to break the rules too.
Jazz theory is not robotic in such a literal sense. It’s a series of guiding ideas to practice with.
Want to say they're they're not necessarily rules but options
Does these rules also work for major and minor scale?
Hey Silas. These are dominant scale rules. For major and minor you would typically use the major/minor 6th diminished scales. (There’s a video in my Barry playlist on that)
Why would you simplify Bebop to one scale Bebop scale?
The comment section has the usual foolish ones about Barry's teachings and "how to use it" and "rules destroy creativity". Do you really think Barry is saying Bird and Diz and Monk were THINKING about any rules while maintaining 200bpm tempos, modulating keys, staying on beat, and improvising melodic variations???? That's silly. Barry's rules are for students who want TO LEARN to play jazz. We aren't all Birds, Dizz's, and Monks. We all don't have perfect ears. And even if the greats were alive they probably wouldn't make great teachers. Barry codified what he noticed were the TENDENCIES of the greats, and he codified them for regular musicians to learn to play jazz. And when you hear Barry's students play they sound like authentic bebop. A lot of people want to play whatever they feel like and call what their playing jazz and their shit does not sound like bebop. MOST jazz has blues in it. Is that a rule? Yes, it's a rule because that is the verifiable practice of every jazz great from Armstrong to Lee Morgan to Wynton Marsalis. If you want to play jazz and not learn blues because it's "a rule" - well, that's not creative freedom. It's arrogance. You're basically thumbing your nose at the verifiable tradition of the music. And when you criticize Barry's advice, you're questioning someone who played jazz for 60 years!!!! Your right to "creativity" doesn't give you an informed opinion. SO, if you practice the half-step rules like Barry says, one day it will become second nature and you won't have to think about the rules.
Cedric - I wish I had a bigger and bolder font to respond AMEN.
Most of Barrys teachings are from his workshops and should be understood in that context. As the maker of this video, I could probably have made a bigger deal of that.
There are all kinds of rules we follow when practicing. Rhythmic drills. Fingering. Etc. but you don’t think about any of that when you solo, you just rely on your training to help you be creative.
Cheers. Merry Christmas.
Keep the. Barry flame alive!
Although I really respect Barry Harris IMHO these rules over complicate the process. Someone posted this somewhere which summarize all of this:
''For descending half-step rules:
Starting on an odd-numbered degree (7, 9, 11, etc.) you don't need to add a half step.
Starting on an even-numbered degree (6, 8, 10, etc.) you need to add a half step. That's it. ´´
These "rules" serve to balance the line. Balance = chord tones landing on the beat. It's basically a binary approach to balance a 7-note scale. 7 is an odd quantity of notes, balancing it with added half steps can keep chord tones on the beat.''
To finish, Hal Galper on his book Forward Motion page 86 (which has a similar approach) said: When and where to add the additional half-steps varies according to when and where you start and intend to resolve your line. It can't be done by rules. These additions can be successfully accomplished only if you're hearing ahead towards your last note and sense that you're going to arrive at your target note and beat either to early or late. Start ascending and descending scale lines on any off beat, on any added half step to test if you can hear where the added notes need to be placed to keep your line in sync.
I will have to check out that book! Thanks!
What are you saying?
I learned bebop scales from Barry personally (at his workshops here in Europe).
Adding passing tones so that things line up - those ARE bebop scales. 🤦♀️
Barry used to tease people at the workshops. “There’s no such thing as the bebop scale!”
I’m referring to the traditional “bebop” scales taught in universities, which was what he was challenging.
that G on your keyboard jumping an octave is tripping me out hard
Sorry! Me too. Stupid software glitches haha. Sometimes it misbalances the overtones. I need to look into it…
sorry obviously the rules also apply when we play the ascending scale, right? hello and thank you
Actually, this is designed specifically for descending. You can use it ascending, the notes line up, but most of them time these are used descending. 👍🏻
@@JoshWalshMusic ok. Thanks again for everything !
Great stuff is always. You're teaching skills are prime
Well done. Simplify, simplify, smplfy....
Thanks Gabriel!
When you land on the D note are you implying that that D is the fifth of the G tonic chord?
Hey Freddy - I’m not sure which part you are talking about specifically. Sorry!
Any of the example you have chosen. All are over a D dom 7 chord? Correct? Now, say you are using rule #3 and as you descend from the 9 or an E on down the scale and land on a D, are you implying that that D is now the fifth of the tonic G chord. Assuming the D7 is the five chord in key of G. Sorry. I'm trying my hardest to be clear. Or, are these dominant 7 rules played over the ii chord as well as the Dominant 7 chord?
@@freddygildersleeve1012 ah yes, now I follow. Indeed, that would be landing on the fifth of the tonic. Though, I sometimes end on the 3rd of D, which is the major 7 of G.
Barry played these over both V and ii-V equally. (“There’s no such thing as 2” as he said)
dominant scale = mixolydian ?
That’s right!
Nice
I observe that bebop is pretty well circumscribed in its scope. It’s not anything goes, and respect for the tradition contraindicates uninformed, bop-ish, "there are no rules," approaches.
Taking it elsewhere and beyond is another thing, and ditching rules is part and parcel of many jazz idioms. That said, it’s just not honest to ignore the details of the particular idiom while claiming it as one’s own, or as the basis for further exploration.
Harris later came up with his chromatic scale… Fwiw, I find it a more organic entry point into the chromaticism.
Happy solstice, y’all. D
Bebop scales are not bullshit, in and of themselves. It is misuse of bebop scales that is bullshit. Like you said, they are useful, half the time only. So, more is needed, that is, either more chromatic notes, or sometimes chromatic notes in places not prescribed by the standard bebop scales.
If you listen to Sonny Stitt, for example, you will here a lot of use of bebop scales used properly.
Love Sonny! I need to spend more time transcribing him.
Hey nice you got 7.5k views on this. Kind of wonder how that happens on this and not on your other ones. One of the piano guys on here I really enjoy is working on 100k subscibers but I think its probably pretty tough with only so many people into this kind of content. I guess he should be happy with what he has which is quite a lot near that mark.
Hey man, you noticed! Actually, I’ve been researching and testing what works for a few months now and have learned a lot about what you guys enjoy both in terms of content and style.
Since going full time creator a year ago, I’ve learned so much. Wait till you see where we are next year!
Appreciate you coming for the ride, man.
@@JoshWalshMusic Just was looking it over and its the ones with Barry Harris in the title!
@@TheRealSandleford that’s true! People love (or love to hate) Barry 🤪
Thanks for presenting these! But if these are his rules, why do you say that Barry would roast you ?
Barry would roast people for even relating his rules to the bebop scale at all. But IMO, his rule 1 essentially is the bebop scale. 🤷🏻♂️
Huh, this is not debunking the Bebop scale per se, only saying that its usefulness is limited to certain situations where you are starting a scalar phrase on a chord tone.
Excellent
Show 👏👏👏❤
It’s all Ear training. You can’t play it if you don’t hear it. If you hear it, you just play it without thinking about it.
100% correct. You can't just "study" your way to this. You have to listen and sing along a LOT.
Er... Rule 1 must be "when the line starts ON A DOWNBEAT and on a chord tone"! You are disregarding where in the bar the line starts (or, differently put, imply that lines normally start on downbeats). In fact, most lines start on upbeats, and a player who tends to often start lines on downbeats has not the right rhythmic concept for bebop. Bebop is PREDOMINANTLY a rhythmic concept, the whole harmonic and line thing is also important, but secondary to rhythm. Ask Mr. Iverson about that. Dizzy said: "I think rhythms first, then I put notes to it."
Hey Christoph, you are right to point that out. But I didn’t overlook it, it was the last point in the video after the excerpt of Barry teaching.
Thanks for pointing it out!
Miles Davis saved me from learning the Blues scale. Scales are technically useless.
Why would any one need to fill a bar with eight eighth notes? This seems to create a boring repetitious solo. Richie Zellon of the Jazz Guitar Channel says that after analyzing the Charlie Parker omni book found only one instance of the bebop scale.
Hey Robert. Good question. These are exercises more than performance guidelines. You will (and should) deviate when you perform, these are just to train your ears and hands so you have ideas to draw from as inspiration in your soloing.
Barry played lines inspired by this all over his recordings.
Nobody needs the Bebop scale and even the Barry Harris scale. It is all about chord-notes (arpeggios) their substitutions, superimposing chords on top of the chord played ,by the rhythm section, chromatic approaches and of cause the inside notes of the actually sounding scale. Start with chord notes, like Wes Montgomery and all those guys did. and go further with approaches and so on.
You might want to study how much the bop players made use of the bebop scale. There's thousands of examples. Do your homework.
@@inflatedear7131 Thank you for your “arrogant (?)” advise: "Do your homework" Buhaha...Have you been playing with really famous musicians, as a Jazzmusician, at the philharmonics and some of the biggest Jazzclubs in Europe like me? No? Are you one of the big Names in Jazz? So you, of cause must know more than me...The so called bebop scale is nothing but a scale plus one chromatic note. If you know your scales and add this chromatic note, there is no need to learn this "special" bebop scales. This is no rocket science. That´s what I mean. All the theory is about educating your ear. It should make you able to play what YOU HEAR and not following the rules like a little schoolboy. ( Freddy Hubbard, for example, never knew anything about theory, he just listened and played by ear. THIS is what it is all about). Please transcribe all the Charlie Parker solos and tel me in witch bar he for sure used the bebop scale, and prove that it can not be explained like: “He used just the proper scale and added a chromatic note”. But, if it makes you happy use the bebop scale, “do your homework”, like you said and try to play at the Philharmonics ore the big Jazzclubs. I wish you honestly good luck and fun while playing Jazz.
I'm here to learn. What did you mean by chord tones and their substitutions?? What about the inside tones?
Chord tones are the notes of the chordchanges. For example: Bbmaj7 (Chord notes/tones: Bb, D, F, A) G7b13 (G ,B, Eb, F ) Cm7 (C, Eb, G, Bb) F7b13 ( F, A, Db, Eb )
Substitution for Bbmaj7 could be (most inside) Dm7, Gm7, for G7b13 (if you use alterated scale) Bbm7, Db7, Eb7, Fm7b5, Gm7b5, Abm maj7, Bmaj7#5. Iside tones for Bbmaj7 (if you use Ionian = Major scale) are the 9 = C, the 4/11 = avoid note / passing note Eb and the 13 = G. An of cause you can use any chromatic passing note from one chord ore scale tone to another and use chromatic approaches to the target notes of the chords. If you want more Information I can recommend my teacher. I think he is giving skype lessons and has been playing all over Europe at the finest places like the Philharmonics.
@@danieleoduro3829
@@MrRioso-ry1hb I know you were no talking to me, but could you please let me know who is your teachers. I am a little tired of a watching thousand video and video then practice but not being able to relate one concept to another. I need structure probably a teacher.
Listen to Cecil Alexzander then tell me it's BS I took lessons and he shows how the bebop scale is amazing when used correctly
Oh man, Cecil is great!
Listen, I love Barry as much as the next guy, but there's too much chromaticity in Rules 2, 3, and 4. I get around these problems as a soloist by simply sticking in a chromatic when I need to line up the rhythm and the harmony, and by not always playing stepwise lines. It should be the ears, not mechanical rules, that are the final judge of what you play.
James - great comment. And yes, I totally agree that your ears should guide your improvisation.
My interpretation is that these are ideas to practice with, not literal rules to stay within while soloing. You train your ears with the rules during practice, and then let your ears guide your improv.
Glad to have you here.
He's saying a lot of the same stuff that bebop scales bring without calling them "bebop" scales. Kinda funny.
If you have time, you should google some of his “there’s no such thing as the bebop scale” moments. Some great stories out there.
@@JoshWalshMusic Barry was a friend of my teacher, David Baker.
If Barry were still alive he'd roast you for playing the four rules at '500 beats per second' instead of slowing down and give/show us your fingerings. Otherwise excellent presentation of the problem and a solution.
He probably would indeed. 🤣 though did you see how fast he ran them in the clip from his workshop ;-)
"A tool that only works half the time is more of a liability than anything"
Yeah, no. A hammer doesn't become a liability just because you're dumb enough to use it instead of a screwdriver
Whoa,,,,lets not hate on the bebop scales ,dont try to blame a scale for the reason you cant get with it,everyone is different, i think bebp scales (all if them) are genius, and they've worked very well for me over the years, so i really dk what your trying to prove here mate ,but ur 100% wrong on this one
The purpose here was to carry on Barry's teaching about it - which can be controversial at times. He was not a believer in the bebop scales, and often spoke out about them.
But I do understand how they can be valuable in other methodologies. I don't personally play them, as I find Barry's approach more intuitive personally, but no shade intended if they work well for you.
Barry didn’t like bebop scales and that’s the point of the video.
@@nickfanzo cool,but BH isnt the king of harmony, he had some good ideas ,in fact didn't he use the 6th diminished alot,which is pretty much a "bebop scale "
@@mikegeld1280 I’m aware. I’m just explaining why the video is what it is
@@nickfanzo good deal,great content, rock on 🤘
At first glance, it looks like ...Jesus Christ how do you think about so many rules while you are trying to improvise. If you are able to internalize it, it might be doable. But I don't know. If you are in such a tight box, I don't know if you can call it improvisation.
These are practice methods. You’d never try to keep this going in your head while performing! That would be impractical and limiting, as you said :-). Merry Christmas.
this is all cognitive nonsense. just practice improv and make sure your practice sounds good to you. lol too much analytical BS