This seems sharp
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- Опубліковано 9 тра 2023
- I tested over 27 girth hitches in 5 different configurations with John Godino from Alpine Savvy / alpinesavvy . This topic is one of the most engaging on his page so we thought we would explore it with both nylon and dyneema. I was shocked that the dyneema did better than the nylon in a few of the cases. "But what about shock loading it???" We did that too.
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Alpine Savvy
01:11 Girth hitch hangers
02:24 Girth hitch on carabiner/ring
04:09 Girth hitch two slings together
08:45 Girth hitch anchor
12:34 All Results
14:25 Drop Tests
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Albert Einstein has a famous quote: “In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.”
That yellow nylon was the only thing between me and a 400 foot deck when a couple of pieces blew on a fall in Yosemite. It's oddly emotional to see it being tested.
Glad you're okay!
It's almost like saying a climbing rope is everything between us and falls when we climb tho? Happy you're ok tho man
@@234i9 You're not wrong. But for some reason that sling holds more symbolism of what almost went very wrong. Not sure why.
As someone else said: girth hitch on a harness loop would definitely be a great test to see!
I currently use tubular slings as a pas when climbing tree staples, would love to see if I can use a girth hitch to extend a rappel/belay device in a top rope or rappelling scenario. If I'm leading I'm using a carabiner even if its plenty strong enough, just makes me feel better.
@@adamwelp1079 where exactly do you use the carabiner when leading?
this would be a super super expensive test 😛
Yes please. Because they defintily teach that in common alpine training.
Loving the recent tweaks to how the stats are presented. The results graph as the test sets are happening is much easier to follow and compare.
Love the channel. Not a rock a climber, but a cell tower climber as my job. It's pretty crazy how intertwined rock climbing and tower climbing is. Alot of videos you guys make are something I learn and can put to use everyday at work. I even got my companies safety director to start watching this channel and a month later later we all got new petzl carabiners a couple weeks after one of your carabiner comparison videos. Coincidence I think not.
Same with roof access, I used to clean and re-screw roofs mainly steep slippery 3 or 4 storey stuff. Everything we used was rock climbing gear, far superior and lighter than industrial plus you can hang in a padded climbing harness for a lot longer than the usual crappy workplace approved harnesses.
@@CombatMosquitoTrainer Probably cheaper too
@Fabianwew Sadly not. Sport climbing gear is at least 3 times dearer than industrial gear, also requiring more care and maintenance than industrial.
Heaps lighter though, way more comfortable, and you can carry a lot more carabiners and bolt plates than the steel equivalent.
Dually noted. Dyneema is slick, and you're not supposed to tie knots in it. Nylon don't like sharp metal edges. Also, Ryan played in a tree.
“duly” (i.e., “in the proper way”)
Cheers.
@@chuckhightower2730 or dually, as he noted two things there. Well, two important ones at least
The difference here will also be due ti size if the slings. The broader sling geht's affected more by sharper bend.
not supposed to tie knots in dyneema? huh
Thanks for this. I feel like all I’ve been seeing on social media lately is people ranting about girth hitches being so much weaker… any knot on soft goods reduces strength sometimes up to half! Hopefully this ends that ridiculous narrative
This really is one of the most valuable channels on YT. Thanks for doin what you do!
I really missed girth hitch on a harness loop.
OMG great video - great tests - great edit !! Lots of hours in there! Thanks for doing that for us!
Ryan, you are hands down the most informative slacker I watch. Also the reason I got back into trekking and space netting. Please keep it up!!!!!
This anchor layout is what I got taught in europe for trad anchors. I find it really cool. It generally does similar things like the BFK (including the ability to use more than two pieces), but it's easier to set up, easier to equalise it and *much* easier to untie (just slide the girth hitch out of the carabiner).
Geeze really leveling up now with the dope studio! Love all your stuff!
I do like drop tower 2.0 it seems more environmentally friendly and nicer to look at.
Thank you for your services. I really enjoy your content. ❤❤❤❤
I hate heights and I've never been climbing or slack lining but I still fine all this super interesting! Great video as always Ryan. 👍👍
Great work guys! That was indeed an expensive test. Nice tree drop tower at the end.
i have been wondering about this for a long time. Thank you
Hi! Love those anchor, kind of popular in alps.
I usually use 5-6mm kevlar, it would be interesting to see also that!
This vid is, as always, super good enough.
Great content Ryan, thank you
At 4:30 I understand the red fibers are actually nylon, the dyneema being just the white part.
Excellent video.
I love your channel
You should have tried the girth hitch anchor with kevlar cordelette also
Very informative. Thanks.
Hello, Thank you for this video, have you done the sliding test with a clove hitch? THANKS
Another thing worth pointing out is that Dyneema after it's been used for a few years sees a quite dramatic reduction in strength - the UIAA conducted tests on skinny 8mm slings which had a 50% residual strength after only 3 years of use. Your bolt example would become super not good enough...
Just great! You are amazing!
Thanks!
Awesome test! Even the nylon sling on hanger in some sort of emergency situation would be good enough.
Great video. How about a few breaks with tech webbing and 5.5mm tech cord?
9:12 - This is the information I've been waiting for since I started watching this channel..... That's insane that a Dead Issac is = A Football Player. 😮🤯
Awesome! So that settles it. I’m gonna use girth hitches for the master point of my next highline!
Good one today. Lots of factors there. Sharp edge of hanger. Width of sling. Diameter of carabiner.
Please do it with clove hitches ! Please please please !! Thanks for the video =)
Regarding the MBS of rec climbing gear, another way to look at is through the maximum breaking strength of the human body. Catastrophic things happen before you reach 20kN in a standard harness, which might not be a coincidence.
It’s the width of the nylon strap that causes it to fail more easily on the sharp edges, on a round edge it spreads out under the load evenly distributing, but on the sharp edge since it’s wider it doesn’t have the space and ends up tearing from the bunched edge kind of like how you tear a phone book
Thanks for the video! For a paraglider we attach the whole cascade of
There are nylon "screamers" that tear stitches between 2-4kN depending on the design that do essentially that. For dyneema, it could work similarly but perhaps with less precision, but you'd probably want to be attached with something else as well (with more slack) because rolling knots damages the dyneema.
Commercial rigging for theatre is any thing that holds a person the safety ratio is 5:1 minimum.
I think one side being 'cut' is still a pretty important consideration. If you're on trad for example and the placements are shit without many options for building a belay, its not that unlikey that the rock could fail or gear could dislodge itself, but at that point you're probably going to be building your anchor differently.
If a biner remains in the system but it's no longer placed there is no way that biner can slip true dude ...
Yes exactly. The whole argument is silly because you wouldn't use the girth hitch anchor in those types of scenarios. Two bolts, go wild. Gear anchor, I'm building something else so why are we still talking about this lol
DAV and VDBS, for example, have recommended girth-hitch-master-point anchors for trad anchors that utilize multiple questionable pieces. See: staff.weber.edu/derekdebruin/research/anchorsdav2020.pdf
I'm really curious to see what a dynima sling girth hitched to a belay loop does to both materials. If anyone can point me to a good video that be awesome. Thanks for all you hard work guys!!
Dead Issac’s got me good 😂😂
I love alpine savy
“Super good enough!” 👍🏼
Maybe an interesting test with slings and a hanger would be at what point the sling becomes damaged (if it could be achieved just by hanging in it or by a whipper etc.)
Could you test the special slings from Edelrid? The ones that are tubular. I think they are called Aramid
Did the dyneema drop tower test have the little sliding x in it?
Said before I’m not a climber but I’m amazed at how things that look like they wouldn’t hold much, actually do.
There was something about girth hitches in official manufacturer's recommendations for paragliders (tying lines to each other and to the wing itself).
Hmm, would have liked a slow pull of single leg of the girth hitch master in dyneema. Does heat affect it? Maybe a pull with the gear biner still in the loose leg as if the gear failed? Also if it's not technically redundant why do it all? Is a series anchor?
Great to see the strength of a single girth in dyneema and change my understanding.
Nice there but how would a Clove Hitch work in your anchor, would be a good, would be a good redundancy for one side getting cut? As I've always used a Clove Hitch in anchor point both in rope & in Slings if I've to shorten or not had double Karabiners & sling.
Girth hitching two slings/cords is (depending on how it's dressed) the same as a square knot. And that's why it's point symmetric. And I did not expect it to break so low.
Can you test girth hitching nylon to dynema? And those slings to a harness belay loop?
Could you test some slings girth hitched into the wire of a stopper/wallnut? One of my climbing partners did this when he ran out of carabiners. It seemed a bit sketchy at the time.
Great content per usual but along with other commenters, I would like to see the result when one of the legs gets cut or an anchor fails. Or just start with one of the legs not clipped in. That would be super helpful in putting to rest the YGD opinions on girth hitch masterpoints.
Tests showing (Semmel C.) that there is no problem as long as your sling is at least 10 mm - used as double strand. In rare cases (depending on how the sling is made) slides occur with some 8 mm - not recommended though - there is always a biner / piton / cam blocking a slide through. With a 3 point anchor there is no way one leg is slippin through... not even a few cm's. The VDBS (German Mountain Guide Association) recommendations are based on those tests.
a quick follow up with clove hitch?
I wonder how a wider dyneema sling would do. I expect, especially for nylon on the bolt hanger, that there was far higher stress on the outer side of those flat slings.
Quick pause... 50 seconds in to this video, I use girth hitches everywhere I can. Easy to untie, quick, very useful. So, this video will be for funzies. Thanks for doing the work gents
EDIT: Girth hitching a hanger... done it before. BUT, would nylon be a better use case due to the stretch, as dyneema doesnt like to be shock loaded?
I would like to see how a metolius PAS girth hitched to a harness fares.
On the dyneema girth together they seem to be dressed differently where one side is stacked and the other is back to back. I couldnt tell if that was what y'all were pointing out to be different or not.
What about metolius pass22 vs sterling chain reactor ( dyneema vs nylon ) girth hitched to the harness belay loop please
Is there a different way that you would connect a sling to a hanger?
I love this. As a data nerd, I think it would be awesome to display the test results in a bar chart or some other visualization. Great work.
I think the width of the nylon in the hangers was a factor for the lower strength. It likely catches more of the inside edge surface area - like a knife with a longer blade.
I'd also point out that a symmetrical girth hitch between slings, is a square knot - which while not preferred, can be adequate.
The reemergence of GHMP has really put me at ease in scenarios where I need more material between placements in an anchor and have less to spare for the knot. Thanks for this one!
One thing I've missed when watching these videos (and I've been binging a lot of them)... how good is "good enough"?
Like, what's the result where you'd say "Okay, that's high enough that I feel safe to use this?" 10? 15? 20?
Nut cable?
My understanding is that dyneema or uhmwpe can’t be dyed. So the red in the sling is some other material and has to be omitted from any part of the strength analysis.
"Dead Isaacs!" Thats great lol
Yup so I’m fishing when we connect a leader to our line we often use girth hitch knots… We ALWAYS put the line through the leader then the leader through the line and never vice versa - we’re told it’s stronger!
1:35 that hanger is smooth, I have climbed up to some pretty sharp ones before. I still wouldn't trust it.
I was surprised that the girth hitch anchor worked out to be honest. I’ve always been told to wrap anchors (for rescue) but this even works for the NFPA 15:1 safety ratio.
For two people on one line from one anchor. Assuming 100kg per person. Plus add in an independent anchor for a safety/backup/redundant line.
Your question about why the break is in a particular place. Regardless of how equally one distributes the loads at each end, the end that is actually moving is seeing more load. This happens when bending steel stock using hydraulic rams. Placed between two members one places the moving ram against the member to be moved, and it will move even if the members are the same size and configuration. One might believe that the force is equal, as there is a single ram and only two points being pushed by the ram, but the moving end of the ram is always the end that gives and changes dimension to the greater degree.
I do not understand the physics but that is how it works! SO in your case I believe that the end that is moving is effectively seeing more load. TO you this means that the working end sees more load than the anchor end where girth hitches are used to connect the harness.
I would also like to point out that heat is the cause of failure or the result of it. Therefore, a question arises, what happens to the numbers when the tension is applied faster or slower? I would guess that there is a straight line that would fit the stats for time and load to failure. example, a fall would probably tension the assembly MUCH faster, which may cause failure at a lower value?
Hey guys just in case; try bull hitch instead the girth, and see what happens, great video 🌿👊
"Dead Isaacs" got me good 🤣
I would have liked to see that with 10 and 11mm dynex/dyneema/spectra then the wider (12-14mm) nylon -dynex/dyneema/spectra blends
I suppose the reason that the dyneema did so much better on the bolt hangers is because that is a case of it being cut, rather than breaking around a radius. Dyneema fibers are much harder to cut.
Can you pull test trando big bros?
If you girth hitch a sling to a bolt and whip on it (maybe you only had 1 sling and 1 non-locker), can the sling be re-used? Or should it be retired? Good to see these anchors are good enough. They seem more complex than necessary, but maybe you forgot your cordalette at the last belay, which has happened to me. It would be cool if there were carabiners without gates just for this purpose. These girth hit things have 4 things you need to get right: lock sling to bolts, correctly girth hitch biner, lock gate, load on carabiner spine. A traditional anchor has 2: attach sling to bolts, tie knot.
I'd love to see what happens if you girth hitch onto an actual knifeblade. It seems like cutting a rope is REALLY hard if you don't apply any sawing motion. I'm guessing in a slow straight pull, you'd get 4+KN from dyneema across a literal knife edge.
At 5:45 you can see that one has 2 strand facing each other and the other one the 2 strands are spooning. Maybe there a difference? It would be nice to know
Next time I have to measure something in kilonewtons, I'm definitely using dead issacs, shorten to DI.
Why is the sewing so strong ?
Hey, who let Coppolillo sneak in there? Now he'll have to put out a new edition to his tome.
謝謝！
Is there a better way to connect slings if you need to extend one?
A screw gate.
Have you break tested twisted webbing strength vrs straight webbing. My theory is that the more twist on webbing cause it to lose its mbs.
Just saw some musician named Andrew McMahon in an ad, basically a doppelganger blond you
The sling to sling is same shape as square knot, I guess this is yet another method to tie a square knot - using girth hitch
I think nylon on the hanger is weaker because is stretching in a sharp metal so is "rubbing" on it and making damage on more surface. Dyneema instead is not moving at all.
can you make the exact same tests but with CLOVE HITCHES plz?
AND with the drop tests too of course
Girth hitch to girth hitch where one dyneema had a knot that unwind itself: was that a setup? If so, here is why the other sling broke first. When the knot was unwinding - the sling was becoming longer and longer, but not evenly. Additional length of sling was added on one side of the loop. So loop had to even out by slipping through a carabineer on one end and through a hitch on another. That slippage through girth hitch caused deadly friction - deadly for the sling that maintained its length.
Life saving lesson!
You should get laser temp guns pointed at whatever you're break testing to see what kind of heat the kN forces generate on different materials 🤔🤓
how do your numbers translate to lbs?
You were saying those nylon slings failing at 8+ kN was bad, but I fall on a black Totem only rated to 6kN all the time, so...
My biggest concern with girth hitch setups is that they're typically not redundant in a way I trust, so if they got sliced it might not hold. I'm not worried about the gear breaking due to forced but rather due to abrasion.
Super cool stuff, as always! I'm glad I watched this, so I know that at least on those flat, kinda sharp-edged hangers, I shouldn't connect soft stuff directly.
Can someone "enlighten" me what Ryan is talking about when he says "Jesus draw"?
I'm not entirely sure if I grasped the idea behind it properly...
A jesus draw on the first bolt?
Which first bolt?
On a multi-pitch after climbing past the anchor below onward to the next pitch?
What about single-pitch routes?
Thanks in advance! I hope my YT recommendations aren't completely bonkers now that I've been searching for "Jesus draw"
it's on the first bolt after the anchor. I was taught to, if possible, pre-clip it as part of building the anchor. or, if I'm leading next, clip it before unclipping my pas.
you do it so that you never fall on the anchor itself, as that would be a factor 2, which can badly damage the rope (and your body).
there's no such thing on single pitch because you'd just deck.
I've never heard the term "Jesus draw" before, but I might start using it from now on :))
@@cogitodubitoamo thanks for the explanation! I suspected that it was only relevant for multi-pitches - I've not done any multi-pitch climbing YET, so it's still good to know this in advance.
Judging from the single-pitch stuff that I did so far, the bolts are pretty far apart usually, so I can't quite imagine how you would "pre-clip" the next bolt without a clip-stick or one of these longer stiff quick draws.
Thinking about it a little more - I guess you just clip the anchor and keep climbing past it to the next bolt and clip that, while you're still being belayed from the previous pitch? That way with a lot of rope in the system it wouldn't be a factor 2 fall at any point, right?
@@Zolodar yeah if you can't reach the next bolt you can also just clip one of the anchor bolts. anything above the belay device is okay.
You should partner with the Slow-Mo guys.
I really don't get the timeline anymore. Didn't he Möwe recently to his new home? Why was the film from 2021, maybe just the wrong date on the camera.
“Dot whoreg” was too funny