277 FURY vs 270 Win: Shorter But Better?
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- Опубліковано 16 вер 2024
- On this episode of Ultimate Barrier Testing, we will be comparing the performance of the 277 FURY to the 270 Winchester on 4 different targets. Each target is worth 25 points (winner takes all), for a grand total of 100 points. Whichever cartridge ends up with the highest score will be the winner. Testing was setup at 50 yards. Thanks for watching!
*These tests are meant for entertainment and educational purposes only. Do not try any of these tests at home!
Big thanks to @infectedoutdoors for lending his upper for this test!
277 FURY (Full Brass Case): SIG 135 gr FMJ
270 WIN: Pulled 135 gr FMJ Load
Use me as the "Please test M80A1" button
No.
I wouldn't dare!
@@Grooove_edo you have a line on where to get some M80A1? Asking for myself.
@@shockershooter good old gunbroker whenever someone is able to legally get surplus and decides they want to sell it. It's super rare and $8/rd minimum from what I've found
I think it would be interesting 👍
Since nothing short of 50MBG+ is baking it through the sand, Instead of using a single huge box, maybe use 3-4 boxes that add up to the same thickness but would enable performance to be differentiated.
Good idea! The only feedback we ever get is "neither one went all of the way through.
I preached it for years, don’t overlook the 270 Winchester! It’s one helluva cartridge, well suited for hunting virtually anything in the lower 48.
my dad loved it for hunting
I have a .270Win and love the accuracy and power. You can always find ammo for it too.
.270 is the ultimate whitetail cartridge. My dad dropped a buck every year with his.
As a staunch fan of .270 Win, I'm nothing but excited to see where .277 Fury goes. If nothing else, it should offer some new projectile choices for reloading.
IMO you might rethink the sand test. Pick a control round 308 etc? And a thickness of sand it can penetrate. So far nothing has made it through the 8in.
I was just wondering if anything has ever passed the sand test.
Yes. 5 boxes of 2 inch sand is a great idea.
Maybe a 12 inch box, 5 dividers of plywood with sand in between each 2 inch layer.
Pull the divider to find the bullet in each layer.
Even cardboard would work as a divider and show who penetrated. Cheaper$$$
Catch the sand and bullets thru a screen?
4 inch and 2 inch sandbag would be great additions
I'm betting Double B is reading these and will have a solution by next video. 😕
Six inches of sand should stop any small arms round. Eight? Not gonna make it.
In my experience, the 270 has proven itself to be extremely effective on live targets.
Now well now this was a interesting video and a very interesting comparison. I would take the 270 any day of the week due to price availability.
I'm willing to wager the price of 277 is about to plummet because the U.S is adopting the XM-7 which uses the fury case. So maybe in a few years the rounds could be 3/4 the price of a .270, if not more
No, not happening. Powder is about to explode in price and ALL ammo will jump back up. Our Govt is hurting production with "contracts across seas". Coming soon in a month or less. Buy now!!!
@@Dylan_Rivas It will only happen if the cartridge is adopted universally throughout NATO, being chambered in hundreds of combat rifle variants. Niche calibers, especially military based ones, have very, very short lives. Read through the ashes of such failed calibers in Cartridges Of The World. Few cartridges have the longevity of say the 30-06, .7.62x51/.308 Win, 5.56x45/.223 Rem. Very few. It sadly takes long wars where cartridges did terrible cruel things to human bodies over a vast theatre of combat, to make a military cartridge become a mainstay in not just the military, but more importantly in the civilian market. Time will tell. This could die out as fast as many other cartridges that we thought were perfect, yet companies making firearms and ammo abandoned for their own reasons. You'll notice there are a lot of firearm manufacturers that go their own way on what they decide to chamber. Chambering really rare, hard to find calibers in very expensive rifles I never see anyone buying, shooting at the range, publishing UA-cam videos of. The book series The Shooters Bible has half it's pages with such guns. You see them later collecting dust in gun stores, where the first owner bought them, played with them 2 years and then the ammo started to get scarce or expensive, and another rifle sits in the safe, gun rack, collecting dust. Then try selling it. Pennies on the dollar selling a rifle in an obsolete chambering. Caveat Emptor everyone.
The cartridge that Jack built. 270 Win. all day long !
Good movie.
12 year fun run😂@@jailbotmark1379
I have an old Jack O'Connor book my dad gave me and I love reading it. The art of big game hunting is so cool and Jack LOVES the 270 for good reasons, it's a very good round and can kill anything on this continent IF YOU PUT IT WERE IT COUNTS. I loved my 270 too.
The 270 barrel is 4 inches longer. That will make a big difference.
I was thinking the same thing. I wonder what the velocity of the 277 would be with an equal length barrel to 270
@@JH-vl6eh The .277 is still a niche caliber that will probably lose popularity and ammo will be scarce in say a decade or so. Most new calibers fail strangely at about year 13 for big game cartridges. 30% stand the test of time, and last 50 or more years. Of the new calibers out in the last 20 years I'd say the .270 WSM, .300 WSM, .350 Legend, and .450 Bushmaster will be the winners for longevity and popularity. At least that's my 45 year experience in all things shooting, buying, casting and reloading. Stick with what does the job and is available positively everywhere. Those are the calibers that stand the test of time and you want to invest in a good firearm in. No one wants to be stuck with the rifle that becomes a Queen of the safe, because you can't find ammo and have to have casings made for it. It then becomes exceedingly expensive to shoot your favorite firearm and beyond frustrating to keep feeding the pig come range time.
@@Tigershark-qy2gq I agree. I have almost as many years of buying, shooting reloading experience as you do, and I’ve said many times that there really isn’t that much “new” when it comes to ammunition calibers. There really isn’t any “round” that has come out in recent history that there isn’t a tried and true ballistic “equivalent” or “superior”already out there. That being said, 277 piques my interest, not so much for the “Fury” round, but because of the 6.8x51. It seems to have potential as a compact “hot rod” cartridge. However, like you said, time will tell whether or not it becomes widely accepted and readily available. There is still a lot of uncertainty that needs to be proved out before I invest in one. (I really don’t need another caliber anyway, 😉 lol. )
My 10 years less experience tells me that any round the military uses will stick around. Unless the military cancels its decision to switch to the fury cartridge, it will stick around. 4 out of 5 of our official standard issue rifle cartridges are still popular and chambered in rifles today, the only outlier being the 30-40 krag. That being said, it would not surprise me if the military did cancel the change of cartridge. 270 cartridges have always been kind of left out other than 270 Win to the point that even superior cartridges in that caliber don’t catch on. Without military backing I agree, the Fury fizzles out.
@@kevinreichert3254 Actually, there are still a few manufacturers offering 30-40 Krag in their new rifles as a chambering offering. Most strangely are European manufacturers, and the rifles are not cheap. Like 3000 and up USD. I bet ammo is still going to be hard to get, needing to be most likely purchased online or ordered into a store. However you never know, I bought two boxes of 7.92 x 33 mm Kurtz ammo off the shelf. Even though I don't own an MP44. I bought them simply to trade with friends down the road. Super, super rare cartridge in this part of the world.
I think the two seventy won for 2 reasons It punched a cleaner hole through the plywood. After the concrete which meant it had a lot more mass remaining together. It just wasn't a bunch of fragments like the 277 fury. The two seventies been around longer and has proved it itself
You can also see the same effect on the paint on steel. It didn’t even chip any paint off the first one. I can’t remember if same thing happened on the 1/2” steel.
I know you said these were both FMJ style, but I think if you could compare the same bullet type from the same manufacturer it would be a little less disputable.
Maybe not use FMJ as well. Use identical soft point bullets or other typical hunting style bullets, that are meant to expand. Then see which one expands the most dramatically, and at what depth the bullet was recovered.
Judging from the video description and my knowledge of available 6.8mm bullets, Banana did use identical bullets. He describes the 135gr .270 Win bullets as “pulled” and I’m guessing that means pulled from a .277 Fury cartridge since .270 Winchester bullets don’t come in FMJ or 135gr and 6.8 SPC bullets are exclusively lighter than 135gr (to my knowledge).
The .277 Fury is just the watered down version of the new military round (alot less pressure). Never was meant to compete with the .270!
The old 270 ain't ready to die anytime soon 💪💪💪
I think that the extra speed of the 270 would be more deadly especially with soft targets. The 270 wins in my book.
It had 4 more inches of barrel to generate more velocity. They would have been pretty close if the fury had a 24 inch barrel.
@@actionjksn probably. the tapered case yields fantastic results for velocity, see the 5.56/5.45 and 7.62x51/7.62x54r. obviously barrel length matters, but people seem to ignore case geometry. the 5.45 being surprisingly devastating in the krink variants despite their short stature.
maybe a slightly better example would be a 25-06/243 win. both are quite comparable by all metrics, but the 243 does what the 25-06/6.5-06(depending on who you talk to) in a smaller package by using the above tactics.
@@actionjksnfactory ammo on the 277 are pretty much max of its capability. The 270 factory ammo is pretty anemic. You can gain maybe another 75fps out of the 277 fury fully loaded and with the same barrel. Meanwhile same barrel and fully loaded you can add an easy 200fps more to the 270. 270 wins
Wrong, .277 fury rounds used in this video are cheap practice ammo loaded to 55,000 PSI SAAMI. The real .277 Fury rounds have a steel inserted brass casing and is loaded to 80,000 SAAMI PSI.
@@hunterromano5562burn rate and pressure make a difference as well
Since I own a R700 cambered in .270. I'm biased
I will go with the 270. Which is great because I already have a rifle chambered for it.
You can have all those New ones! 270 for me
7mm-08 vs 277 fury vs 243 win, that would be pretty good comparison with all the children of the 308
I've been chucking 130gr 270WIN slugs since the 1980s. Amazing what that little bullet can do. 🤠
In about 1985 I was loading my .270 with 130gr boat tails. (I was 13 years old) Dropped the velocity from over 3,000fps to 2,800 fps for better groups. With a 4x post scope leaning over a car was holding sub .75" groups at 100 yards. Full magazine + chamber round, no fliers. (I have always loved this rifle)
Once again it's the box of sand that's the real winner here. Nothing beats the box of sand 😂
I have owned a 270 Win, impressive cartridge!
It is. I love the .270 WSM as well. A spectacularly powerful round that is light on the shoulder if a person requires less pain on themself, but serious magnum power down range.
.277 Fury did remarkably well vs. the .270 given the handicap of being shot out of a 20" semi-auto and not a 24" bolt action. I'd give the nod to the .277 Fury, though, as I'd expect it would likely have dominated if each were fired from identically configured guns - i.e. both from a 20" semi or both from a 24" bolt gun.
if you are a handloader you can use different powders to get mors speed out of the 270 because of the larger case.
These were hand loads. I could probably squeeze another 50-100 fps over what I was getting
@@bananaballistics When I was hand loading .270 I got considerably better grouping when I loaded them down about 10% under max loads.
Can't wait too see a vid on the hybrid 277 cased ammo some day when it becomes more common
I'm just wondering IF it will be one more common . I was under the impression that uncle Sam doesn't want us mere citizens having their new fangled power house round. Meaning I thought it was for govt use only.
@@JamesThomas-gg6ilOnce the contract is filled, they’ll make it to surplus. I guess it depends on the exact contract language, but I’d imagine it’ll make its way out once a surplus is being made.
@@megazombiekiller9000 same as 556 and 762, but I've also not heard any definitive answer if they "want" us mere mortals having such a "military specific" high power body armor defeating round.
I run a 270win for hunting as its fairly flat, out to 300yds, and still has a good bit of energy at that distance.
I agree i love the 270 but i hunt with the 150 grain federal non typical soft point
Midway is my go to for anything gun related
Banana B does excellent work here 🎉 testing all these bullets and answering all our questions‼️‼️
I'm going with the cartridge I don't have to order online to get.
Thanks for testing the 270 Winchester. I didn’t really know anything about 277 Fury. I’m definitely going to research it more. I do feel there would be a big difference at 300+ yards. Being the 270 and 243 Winchester and the 6.5 Creedmoor are superior rounds for long distance. Keep up the good work!!
It's basically 6.8-08 with a steel or brass base.
Cool. Thank you for the info!!!
The 277 fury has 20-25% more energy than 6.5 at 1000 yards.
It might be a dumb question but is it flatter shooting. Just trying to learn everything I can about it. Ron Spomer states a lot of times the size and shape of the projectile has as much to do with pressure of the cartridge. Thank you for the info as well. It would make a great cartridge for an AR. Each one has a different purpose for sure.
@markwarner8863 : Flat shooting is going to be a combination of the powder charge (speed) and the shape of the bullet (Ballistic Coefficient). 277 Fury in the steel case (85k psi) is going to go faster and flatter. But the same bullet out of 270win vs 277 Fury (brass), the 270 will shoot flatter (faster)
I'm glad they finally came out with a short cased .270.
270 wsm and 6.8 western come to mind
@@msquared9605 yes but those not based on 308 case.
@@toddparsons2980 maybe not but 308 isn’t the only short action case
6.8 spc as well
@@levimorris3805 that would've been a good round if there weren't so many variants of the cartridge.
Great comparison!!👍🏼
270 all the way. Fairly easy to find and proven by a legend, Jack O’Conner.
you actually tested the 277 fury light load and 277 fury full pressure load
3:00 you can see that the bullets were tumbling when they hit the steel which is why they didn’t penetrate.
Good info, really enjoy the testing 😊 thanks
As the available bullet selection is identical, and it appears that barrel length would likely even out the velocities. These two can be considered identical from a terminal performance stand point. The only meaningful differences would be the useability from certain rifles, and ammo availability. The 277 fury has an advantage over 270, if you wish to use an AR pattern rifle, and the 270 has an advantage for ammo availability and likely cost. Hand loading opens up a lot of potential in the 270. Dont know about the 277 as of yet.
270 rifles and cartridges have been found in Afghanistan and Somalia markets. Just proves the world renowned capability of the 270.
270! But the best choice would be the cheaper, more widely avaliable, with the largest variation in bullet weights. 270 wins again.
You need some of the high pressure 6.8x51 with the steel case head.
.270 Win all day. Cheaper, effective, a lot more platforms that support it.
Do you need the hybrid .277 fury accubond?
Any chance on a .40 vs 10mm compression?! 🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻
25 years ago a gunsmith I knew built an Ackley Improved 270-08 and got the same results as the 277 Fury. He killed a lot of deer in PA and WV with it, so I'm not surprised by these results.
I'm not a 270 fan but I was rooting for it, the 277 fury is the answer to a need that doesn't exist 😂
277 was because someone wanted to spend money 😂
The 277 is a short action 270. And it's loaded so hot the brass will fail early, so not good for reloaders.
The even higher pressure military version needs a stainless steel head to take the pressure. Also not reloadable, but they don't care.
If you want a short action almost 270 that's reloadable the 7mm-08 already exists.
So in the end I agree with ratdaddy.😊
Good show and test.
Michael Herrell
270 Win in my book because I am old school and that is what I grew up with.
I've had a .270 winchester pre '64 since the 80's. I always wanted a M platform shooting this cartridge. It's good to know the US military thought similarly, even if it was 30 plus years later. Not that AR 10's in .308 would have been a bad choice
Thank you for another great video. This was a bit of interest to me as for rifle I have mostly run a Model 70 pre '64 .270 Winchester that my Grandfather had given to my Dad before he died. (very clean shooting rifle)
It's a tough call between the two. .270 Win has been around so long and has a ton of loadings from the factory. But .277 Fury will fit in an AR10 pattern rifle. Of course, you can also use the .260 Remington and the 7mm-08 in an AR10-pattern rifle as well and you can reload both using any decent .308 case, and there is a ton of factory ammo for those as well. It's honestly baffling that nobody ever bothered with a 6.8-08 of some sort before Sig in the 2020s. A quick Google search shows a few people who necked up a 6.5-284 (or necked down a .284 Win) into a 6.8 but it never went anywhere commercially...which might be why nobody ever bothered with the 6.8-08.
I think you can probably load .277 Fury from .308 cases though, the dimensions are close enough to be handled with some simple dies.
To absolutely make the test an honest appraisal. use the exact same bullet, especially since these are identical .277 caliber. The barrel lengths you used are representative of the norms for each cartridge.
Definitely a win for the 270. I've never heard of the 277.
Thank you for the highly scientific tests. ❤ Excellent video Double B.... 🎈🥳🎈
How about a modified sand test? 2 inches of sand, cardboard (instead of plywood, cheaper), 5xs in a 12 inch long box. Dump each layer in a screen with bucket under it to reveal bullets and depths. Reuse sand to save $$$. Screen reveals bullets and their expansion? And a better winner for that round.
Mark your box with green and red dots for better accuracy.
Mr engineer.... 😂😂😂
Maybe a thick stack of paper plates instead of sand?
@markwarner8863 - That's been done and you have to cut thru everything. Pulling a layer of cardboard out and letting the sand drain into a bucket reveals the bullet eventually. 5 or 6 layers? And it keeps the sand theme rolling. The sand is an efficient stopper of lead. Reusable.
I meant as an additional test. Especially if there is a “tie. ”I do like your idea a lot. It would make the sand test more relevant.
I’ve seen in previous tests where they just pulled the paper plates apart and you differentiate how far each round went.
270 all day. Availability, barrel life, nostalgia
You need thin boxes of sand. Almost like sand panels
100% agreed.
15 inch box with cardboard spaces, 5 of them, 2 inches of sand in-between each. Keep a basin under to catch the sand when pull the spacers. Reuse the sand. This way we almost always have a sand winner. You can see the bullets if you strain the sand.
I would keep the sand in smaller boxes so it's not a biscuit to lift and carry around.
Good video … can’t pick either one cause I lack the experience with either 😊
I pick ur mom
everyone trying to reinvent the wheel when the old reliables work extremely well
Not sure you have a gun that will shoot the higher pressure .277 but SIGs website has the hybrid stocked here and there
Already own a .270 Win, so no need to change...but cool testing!
There's a good chance that these would have nearly identical performance if shot from the same barrel length (instead of 20" vs 24"). I'd be really curious to see this with a common barrel length + action.
One major issue when testing these rounds. Most do not test them at the specified barrel length for design. Example 5.56 is spec for 20” barrel. But with twist rate and bullet weight can tune it for less. So if doing direct testing like this maybe sane barrel length or the spec intended for each.
Probably closer. The box says 3000 on the 277 and I believe that was from a 24”.
@@bananaballistics Not to mention the difference between the true military-spec hybrid .277 Fury vs. the all-brass .277 Fury. Tbh, I don't really get the point of the non-hybrid .277 Fury, especially since its energy & performance seems almost identical to the 7mm-08 Remington. Like why not just make a hybrid version of that, or 7.62mm NATO, or 6.5mm CM to boost their performance?
The hybrid version seems like a solid cartridge, but it's just so specialized, insanely expensive, and not a *significant-enough* improvement that it's hard to see it gaining any traction in the civilian/hunting market, let alone replacing either of the two current NATO standards. But maybe I'm wrong. Time will tell.
Need to try 243 and 22-250
@@andrewnesbitt2523 The point of the non-hybrid .277 fury is training and cost.
In a bolt action, you can safely fire the steel variant of the 277. The 85k psi issue only impacts the base of the cartridge and will have zero impact on the chamber of the rifle. Use the string pull on a lead sled if you want to experiment / confirm. You can also detach (or turn off) the gas system on the AR (steel receiver) and do the same experiment.
'STAND UP AND SHOUT' Ronald James Padavona
Tie breaker should be done with mild steel at long distance
Next Tuesday breaker measure inside size of the hole before the grind. This should help with impact on contact not ballistic impact..
Unless the projectiles are exactly the same, meaning from the same manufacturer and even lot, it's hard to get accurate test results. I know you can pick up 270 Win almost anywhere in a great range of bullets starting at around $30. The only 277 Fury I've seen was 90 plus $$$. The 270 Win wins in my book for a lot of reasons, to include ammo availability and cost.
It appeared to me that the 270 edged the 277.
I'd do .270 win because its easier to find
Why not the high pressure version of the 277.
I know its orobably not available
The funny part is, the Hybrid .277 Fury has almost the exact same muzzle velocity and energy in a 16 inch barrel than the .270 Winchester does out of a 24 inch barell!
Kind of defeats the purpose if you're not testing the actual original 277 Fury hybrid design of 80,000 chamberpressure. Brass amunition is not full pressures.
Good stuff. Thank you
Test #1
The 270 deformed and therefore had less penetration.
If you want lots of penetration, the 277 won.
If you want "mushrooming" then the 270 won.
As you said, Go with the 270.
277 fury is no joke. Hung with the 270. Both impressive cartridges.
270win... Nuf said- lol. Where did you get fmj? I need that in my life! 130sst too expensive to just play around!
20 vs 24 inch barrel.... I would take the Fury all day. Im not 74 so I have no need for an inefficient case.
I’m guessing the 270 would shine on permanent wound cavity creation, gel tests, stopping two-legged predators, etc. etc.
80,000 psi fury steel case necked up to .308 and reloaded with m80a1
The cartridge I would go with is most available.
Bullets construction? FMC vs soft point expanding?
Whoops! Missed the intro😢
You are allowed to delete your own comments fyi
Could you please do your testing with the military version of the .277 Fury- the one with the composite shell case? Thanks!
Both are fantastic in their own right.
For fun and giggles, give the 270 a 150gr FMJ at 2900fps.
I think my with good say lapua 270 brass(better and possibly a bit thicker)might allow you to load it to the highest rated pressure and allow it to shine more, especially with different or better bullets...say controlled chaos from Lehigh defense?
Id love to see 500 mag vs 45-70!
As long as they are fired out of at least carbine-length barrels. The slower powder in the .45-70 will be a significant handicap, otherwise.
the guns may fire the same size and weight bullet but was it the same projectile loaded in both size cases?
Could you test SPC 6.8 vs 308?
🍌😎🍌
Cool!! Really shows how underpowered a handgun is compared to a rifle.
Definitely a big difference lol
Curious about bullet construction.
Great video as always 👍.
I have watched many of your videos. Has anything been able to make it through the sand?
I've seen all his videos and I have to say "no". He's only been recently using the sand box.
@@redfaux74 Thank you, I guess ess that is a good thing, as it is inexpensive and widely available for a backstop.
People need to evolve to the 21st century and adopt modern cartridges like the 277 Fury, 6.5 Creedmoor and 6.8 Western. The 30-06 family is obsolete.
I wonder if the 270 Hornady Superproformance 130 gr GMX rounds I shoot would do better. They are a copper alloy, I bet they would have punched thru that last plate.
If you're going to test 277 fury, test it in the proper case. Who cares what it does in training rounds. Also bullet construction can matter as much as velocity. If you go get sintered 50bmg rounds they won't penetrate anything. The bullet has to be identical.
Where did you find a commercial .270 Winchester round loaded with an FMJ projectile??? I have never in my life seen, or been able to find one.
He is shooting hand loads.
@paulmartin2348 I'm pretty sure be pulled them out of a factory box, didnt he? Either way, I still couldn't find .277 FMJ/ball projectiles, themselves, not matter how hard I searched.
Maybe the steel I’m using is “milder” than what you’re using. Lol but I’ve put multiple holes through half inch steel with a 7 mm rem mag.
When hunting I rather have a round that will penetrate but dumps most of its energy before it goes through. I think the 270 meets that. The 277 fury would seam to go through before expending and dumping it's energy.
7/16 steel would be interesting
277 Fury
Yeah, I don't think the extra speed hurt the 270, I think your shot placement did.
other than 22lr and 22wmr are there any rifle rounds that won't go through 1/4 plate? You might be surprised what 1/4 can stop if its angled. The Ballistic Highspeed channel did some angled steel testing, but they only used pistol rounds...
I will stick with the 270 win considering I have a rifle chambered in that caliber hanging on the wall.