Accidentally hit flight assist off once after setting it to toggle, couldn't remember how to turn it back on and had to crash course myself on the spot to land in the star port in time. It was wild, awesome and headache inducing
Haha, that was pretty much what made me want to learn it myself. I'd heard of the assist computer and decided to turn it off one time inside a station and naturally all hell broke loose - but from that point on was intrigued and subsequently hooked, couldn't go back after that (but found a suitable less-expensive area to learn the ropes).
awesome guide, despite playing ED since premium beta, never looked at FA off. now with CQC it seems to be essential.Your guide is brilliant, both the theory and practice. Thanks
You're welcome mike, glad to be of help, more useful manouevres and how to achieve them will be covered in the next upload, had to get the basics out the way first.
"I want to fly like Starbuck, not Luke!" I've been quietly thinking this a lot lately and have been using the thrusters a lot to try and compensate. It seems I just needed to take one more step and turn off FA. But after watching your videos I realize it might be a bit trickier than that. I'm glad I ran across these at work. Now I have a goal tonight. Thanks man! Subbed!
+Michael Mattson _"I want to fly like Starbuck, not Luke!"_ - well said and is so very apt! Granted to learn fa off does take a bit of commitment but it really is so worth it, you won't regret learning the fundamentals, the game is felt in a completely different light as a consequence. Good luck and thanks for commenting/subbing Michael :)
Thanks mate, more useful manouevres explained in the next guide, had to get the basics out the way first so I could never be accused of not being thorough :).
Awesome introduction to FA-Off; I'd benefit from a view of your Control Options -- I'd like to map to your recommended settings and start getting used to them. (I use an X-Box controller on the PC.) Great video!
makes sense!! One more point is that mouse-keyboard users may feel a bit harder to get used to FA off piloting, because any unnecessary yaw or pitch done by mouse will cause some unwanted vector momentums than bring trouble, but the joystick is gonna return to center automatically, unlike the non-centralized mouse.
+chengmin li Yeah good point. I haven't used mouse and keyboard much but the "relative mouse" option does at least simulate the mouse as if it were centering after each input to make it feel and behave as much like a joystick as possible. Frontier have made great effort to make the game playable with k&m, one gets power and sensitivity curves too, something the hotas user doesn't get.
This is a really great guide. I have only been doing just the most basic FA off maneuvers before because I didn't quite understand how it works with forward and back thrust using my throttle on default setup. This is just what I need to get started practicing with FA off.
You're welcomeDSheehy , glad to be of help, setting the throttle range to full range is certainly the first and most important change that makes learning to pilot with no assists feel much more natural and similar in behaviour with our current existing habits. Good luck!
PERFECT tuturial, I remember I saw it long time ago, I'm allready subscribe to your channel, whatching it again after playing the game help to learn more and more, thank's !
+Christopher Dijoux Nice one Christopher and thanks again. I've certainly gone back to older videos on other channels that are of benefit no matter how long they've been on, again I'm glad to hear you may find this useful. Good luck :)
Joseph Allen You are most welcome Joseph, thanks for commenting, glad to hear you found some tactics useful. Your name sounds very familiar (VEY... perhaps?), but again may be I'm mistaking you for someone else, perhaps I'll guess correctly one day and match youtubers with their E:D handle. _(if you aren't who I think you are you are probably thinking "what the hell!", in which case never mind and apologies for batting your head in)_ :)
Joseph Allen Arha, guessed right for once in my life, like I say, it's hard to remember who is who half the time. The l'il Sidewinder is quite frankly the ideal craft to learn in, I was tempted to use one throughout these guides but in the end used an array of craft altogether to help with the variances. If you can master flight with no assists in the Sidewinder with its very agile and quick orientation/rotation in the first place, then when moving on to the more heavier craft, even a Viper or Cobra the next step up, what you've learnt in the Sidey will feel in slow motion compared in the larger crafts so will be an effective way of learning for sure. If you can master the Sidewinder/Eagle you'll find the heavier crafts considerably easier. Good luck Joseph, don't hesitate to ask me anything further, I'm here to help if you need it.
The accent/dialect switching is known as diglossia - it's very common - the processes leading to it are similar to bilingualism with heritage languages such as Hindi and Gujurati in the UK, except when it occurs within one language (in our case, English), it causes people's heads to explode. I was born in Scotland, but grew up in London. I learned very quickly when I started school that you use the London accent there. My parents made sure I kept my Scottish accent though. I used to switch mid-conversation depending on who I was talking to (i.e. if my mates came round and my mum poked her head round the door to talk to me). It's a _great way to play with people's heads_. Nice, clear guide, btw. I always think I should make E:D vids, but I can never find something different to say. *edit* Re: the setting of thrust axes on the x52 Pro throttle; that's exactly what I use.
+the100thmonkey Hahaha, absolutely, thought it might have been an affliction of my own, but for sure, depending on who I'm talking to my accent changes, and yes again my own parents weren't particularly impressed the more it started to change, so to them I still speak southern (that said sometimes I by accident revert to my northern accent in front of them and they're saying "pardon, what did you say?". They have difficulty with the northern accent anyway and even still after 20 years, a proper geordie may as well be a foreigner ;) Very good, your post gave my quite the chuckle, thanks for that :) :)
Very informative video indeed. I have experimented with this a little whilst playing on the xbox one. It is a pain to swap between FA (ON) and FA (OFF) in quick time i find on the control but it does give some serious advantages especially against more nimble craft.
+HAPPYK I haven't played the xbox one version although before I bought my hotas I did use a gamepad exclusively. That said even now I still use a gamepad in my left hand for throttle/thrusters (and a x55 hotas' joystick in my right hand), but when doing these guides I mapped flight assist toggle to the gamepad's left stick - thumb/click button [L3?]. Not entirely sure what you're using this for currently but perhaps something that could be mapped elsewhere if you don't need it to hand all the time? Even used just briefly fa off toggle can get you turning considerably quicker than the pilot who doesn't ever use it. None the less, thanks for your compliments :)
You are indeed very welcome sir, Yet again that has given me something further to investigate with regard to the xbox versions control setups. I'll need to play around with it some more I think.
Excellent. I think I now see vector in space dust.Or I've had too many beers. Great videos 1 & 2. I really want to FA off but it really is a different mindset. Practising as I approach docking. I know how much work will have gone into these videos, so much appreciated.
Hi John, I do agree piloting with no assists is a different mindset, but I don't necessarily think it is a harder one, but even if it is, not much harder, and not as hard as one thinks. Keep in mind there aren't that many manoeuvres to really learn anyway, especially if you always roll so your target flies over your head, in which case you're using pitch up to follow, in which case you'll primarlily be using vertical thrust UP to slow your ship down. It really is that simple at first, and all other manoeuvres mainly evolve from this first one, hense the vertical falling exercise in part 2 to learn first and foremost. Thanks for your comments and appreciation :)
What an excellent video! I'm a little nervous to start trying all these techniques, but I am especially excited to change the full-range option on my throttle.
hypersapien Thanks for the compliments hypersapien. To be honest changing to the full range throttle axis option will have considerable benefit even with flight assist on. I believe when one shuts the throttle with the conventional 'forward only' option you aren't actually getting the full - full reverse anyway when "just shutting the throttle". With this forward only axis mapping you will be getting more of a controlled slower deceleration as opposed to applying full reverse (with this forward only map means pressing a button with full forwards to get the full reverse as I'm sure you know). So whether you want to try and learn some of these further fa off techniques in more detail (part 2 incidently starts the learning process and procedures completely from scratch if you've had little experience piloting with no flight assistance), but yes with the 'full range' axis mapping even when piloting with flight assist on, you will be able to slow your ship faster than simply just shutting the throttle, so _with_ this full range axis you'll naturally input all the full reverse thrust available when pulling back on your hotas throttle, like I say without having to press a button with full forwards thrust which on the whole is quite a weird technique to get used to anyway which ever way you look at it. Each to their own of course but it didn't feel intuitive to use myself, who applies break and throttle at the same time to slow your car down in the real world? Good luck, glad to be of help!
LOOK INVERTED Cool, thanks =) I've had a few mishaps using the default scheme. In a dogfight I'll switch between forward and reverse so many times, that sometimes I forget I have it set to reverse until I back into an asteroid.
David Lugenbeel Thanks David, if you are a sci-fi fan, in to anything science, the universe, and combat related, you are in for a treat in Elite. To learn to pilot with no flight assists (flight assist basically aids your control if you weren't entirely sure what this was all about), so _without_ these aids flying a craft that conforms to newtonian physics in a vacuum the game is felt in a completely different light and is also a fundamentally different way of piloting, as space flight should be/is. But.. either if you use flight assist on the whole and then flight assist off in certain circumstances you are going to have a great time. I am officially addicted myself! Part 2 FA Off guide is on my channel now if you are interested, part 3 is nearly finished and should be up soon. Thanks again for your comments David :) P.S: What joystick/hotas have you bought if you don't mind me asking?
David Lugenbeel Good stick, exactly what I had before my x55, only reason I replaced it was it was old and had gone unresponsive so upgraded at the opportunity. Nice one David, have fun!
I've been flying combat with assist off mostly on instinct, since I first booted the game. Never really put that much thought into it. I'll switch it on for certain things like docking, or fast alignment for escaping an unwinnable scenario, and now planetary flight as well, but when I'm in a warzone, be it PVP or PVE, I'll mostly have it off, especially when I'm in Eagles PVP'ing against guys in Vipers, Cobras and Vultures and the like. Keeping my target profile against them low while either pointed at them, or away from them if running, is absolutely vital, which is where unhindered vertical and lateral thrusting comes in handy.
+Remiel Pollard That's ideal actually that you started the game and went straight-long head in with the unassisted flight, many of the learning difficulties are with the very fact one has to "unlearn" the muscle memory most get with sustained assist on flight over a period. You've done it the right way for sure, I bet you _can_ hold your own as a consequence. Thanks for stopping by to comment, good luck with the progress (if I'm honest I'm still learning new tricks even now myself)
I had flight assist off the whole time and didn't notice until after watching your video. Told vasco to turn FA off. Ship computer told me it turned it on! LOL I learned the hard way I guess.
Just finished the first part of 'Flight Assist' and gave it a go in one of the Training lessons in ED, AND what a boom. so will have to go over it again then onto Part 2 & 3. Thanks
Geoff Holroyd-Doveton Glad to hear you are making progress Geoff. Most are perhaps a little scared to even try, but for sure if you put the time in and are also perhaps guided in the rough direction for the best approach in learning it, it isn't quite as hard as first thought, which was the main reason for me creating this series, to make it more likely to click more quickly and without wasting time. Thanks for your comments Geoff, it really helps when viewers read comments & replies like yours for anyone else wanting to learn, seeing others' progress that it *_is_* possible! Cheers to you too :)
I need to start practicing with FA off a bit more. I just left everything default, but I am starting to get to an experience level that I feel like I am sometimes fighting against the computer when trying to get my ship to move the way I want it too. Clear indication that I need to learn FA off.
Jesse Sisolack It does take a bit of time and investment, but it really is highly addictive _and_ even if you only ever use the no flight assist mode for certain circumstances "in the end" you won't regret what you've learnt in the process. Good luck :)
Okay. I’ve watched this series several times and I just caught that applying additional thruster inputs when making a turn in FAON is slower than making the turn without adding thruster inputs. Makes sense but also makes me wonder about what I’ve been doing all this time!
Hey mate. More useful practical exercises will be in the next part 2 for us to practice, had to get the basics down and out the way first. Thanks chilltime
LOOK INVERTED Been busy for the past week and haven't been able to get on ED. I was getting the hang of aiming FAO. But, after not being able to play for a week, I'm all over the place again when trying to aim. Can't wait to see the second video.
chilltime99 Hi mate, how you keeping? Me too actually, haven't had much time to play at all, and the only time I have had, I've been working on this Part 2 guide. There will be 'many' lessons to cover all aspects, including aiming, so perhaps they might help. To give you a sneak preview, I've tried to split up each lesson for a specific task, some are more fun than others ;), and then at the end we'll bring them all together. One issue it's nearly an hour long! Main issue is having to cover both types of controls, being analogue or digital, so had to cover backup methods for those who haven't analogue controls. Perhaps it will encourage and make players realise the hindrance digital controls really are to space flight and that the average hotas is simply not designed for newtonian space flight or forced fluidic assisted flight for that matter. Making this guide really has cemented my feelings and I would never go back to my hotas throttle over my gamepad even if I could. In the mean time, the aiming issue can be helped with this anchoring of one's arm as we discussed, but still it's mainly all about trying to stay relaxed in the heat of the moment when you're under pressure. The more you practice the better it becomes, but still ideally one should toggle assist back on for these finer aiming moments, whilst trying to continue the ship's behaviour as seamlessly as possible with ship thrusters, which is also covered in this part 2 guide. Shouldn't be too long, done most of it, but I'm sure everyone will find this part 2 much more useful, I simply had to get the basics out the way first in part 1. Good to hear from you :)
Ar ha indeed, the saviour who uploaded the file for me because my upload was interupted during the night and my own internet is that shite it would have taken all night again. For anyone else reading this, thanks should fall to this man here R3C0N1X so I could have this uploaded today, a faithful subscriber who fortunately lives very close to me, and offered to help me out.. Check out his channel for some gaming exploits :) ua-cam.com/users/R3C0N1X
LOOK INVERTED Thanks, always happy to help, great to see you in the flesh too =) Next it'll be, I'll trade you an upload for some secret tips in Elite: Dangerous that no one knows, then again you share all your information anyway so it'll be a case of, Well.. have you checked this video out. You know while the video was uploading me and Marc were sat watching it like little school kids all excited going o0o0o... ahhh... didn't know that haha.
Brilliant tut mate, I loved that little animation! That's one thing I haven't looked into yet is how to animate text and stuff in Premiere. You've clearly got it down in PD though! Well done! Great tutorial, very well explained and easy to follow. Looking forward to the next one! One note though, when you're doing your loop de loop example, you didn't have the throttle of the Assist On version in the blue section of the throttle metre. That blue spot represents the optimal speed to achieve the fastest turn rate possible. Additionally, if you add up thrust when pulling a loop in the blue section, you will turn slightly quicker. Well that's been my observation anyway. Also, if you're flying backwards and pulling a loop, applying down thrust should keep you turning faster. This is useful when trying to stay inside the turning circle of smaller ships. Even an eagle will have trouble staying inside a Sidewinder's turning circle unless that eagle is travelling backwards and moving down staying close to the sidewinder's bum and well below the its nose.
Ar ha, I can see there's no fooling you, not that I'm trying to fool anyone. You are totally right of course, the centre of the blue zone is the best speed to travel at for the quickest pitch (loop the loop), but basically I needed to match the speeds so it was a fair test/demonstration. Having one pip to engines is about the ideal max speed so when applying full vertical and forward thrust, when flying with assist Off, one can achieve the easiest and most consistant turn. If I'd done both in the blue zone I would have had to hold smaller consistant amounts of each thruster which for an accurate comparison test is quite hard to do (particularly on a gamepad ;) ). Perhaps I should have mentioned this, I'll add something about it for next guide. You also mention applying thruster inputs mid orientation to vary the speed of the turn, indeed, you are correct as well, more of this will be covered in the toggle guide, but I appreciate someone bringing this up. I wouldn't necessarily give me the congrats to me about the animation in this, if you realised what it took, you wouldn't believe the hassle just that piece caused me, I'm not entirely sure if this sort of thing is possible in PD, perhaps something like After Effects is needed (I'm not sure), but basically I made that segment 'frame by frame' in Photoshop, moving each little layer bit by bit and then importing sequential pictures into PD ;) Took me a whole day! Couldn't figure out any other way to do it at present, like oldschool animation!!
LOOK INVERTED Yeah I knew there would be a good reason you didn't mention it, and a fair reason it was too! Yes old school animation indeed! It all looked very professional anyway :) You could use flash as well, or After Effects as you mention - if you have those of course. I have neither myself. I have seen Erimus One using "typewriting" style captions. I'm sure he could tell me how to do it if I asked.
PIK I haven't neither either. I just heard something about After Effects because a friend had used it to make a 'sliding on/off' message himself with very particular pictures that were clearly made by himself, similar to Erimus text yeah on his exploring adventure vids. Sure if you've a good rapport with him and are willing to ask him I'd be very grateful, indeed. I have had some correspondance with him, but mainly just congratulating him on his products. Thanks mate appreciated :):)
+Look Inverted I'm already a pretty capable dogfighter but it's all with flight assist on. It seems obvious to me that if I trained myself to fly with it off I could be so much better. You've shown me a larger world, Obi-Wan. :)
candiduscorvus Hahaha, sounds like you know how to look after yourself already my Padawan friend. You're too kind, but quite honestly it's really not that hard once it clicks, just a different way of piloting, let me know how you get on :)
+Gerben O Agreed, you do have to set yourself a challenge and it does take a bit of time, but it is sooo worth it, it's an extremely rewarding experience once it all clicks in to place. Good luck and thanks for your comment Gerben!
Nice guide sir, its great that you've got 2 accents. I had a mate that was born in Lincoln, but moved to Essex in his early teens. He sounded Essex the majority of the time but the more angry he got, the more Lincoln he got haha!!! He ended up moving back and has completely returned to his original accent!!! Do you still play Elite??? Its just theres a lot of changes coming over 2018, i think you'll be impressed!!! Thanks again for the guide mate!!!
If E:D is modeling Newtonian physics, two questions: 1) With assist off, when I hit boost, why does the ship speed up and then slow down? What's causing it to slow down, assuming I'm flying in deep space. There should be no outside force acting n the ship to slow it down, yet it does. 2) Building on number 1, why do the ships have a "maximum speed" - hitting boost several times (assuming enough capacitor) should propel you faster and faster? Again, without an outside force present, nothing should be limiting the speed...?
Gordon McLellan Agreed, Elite conforms to Newtonian phycics for the most part apart from these occassions. The first you mention, Frontier decided to implement speed bleed offs for all directions, more speed bleeds off for lateral/vertical and even more severely for reverse momentum (facing 180 deg to current vector) basically to stop the 'turrets in space' phenomenon, this basically gave the assist off pilot a huge advantage over tha assist on pilot before these "bleed offs" were introduced. And finally the reason for a top speed was because of the way the game is played/coded, having normal space (normal space speeds) and then the launch into Super Cruise for faster than light travel. With the way Elite Dangerous is designed (P2P client server) they had to create seperate instances so the two modes could be seamlessly jumped between (well almost seamless). A forever increasing speed would have no transition to a separate instance for faster than light travel (super cruise).
I have been trying this a little with my PS4 controller (i think its better than mouse and keyboard. Have to use some shift buttons, but once i found a good mapping, it was easy to remember, and the controller feels really nice to use), and find it really difficult to do small enough adjustments with that small "joystick". Not sure if i just need to practice more, but i suspect a real joystick would be better for this task. I REALLY like this game (115 hours in the last 2 weeks), so im definitely gonna have to buy a real joystick in a couple of weeks! Probably going for a dual joystick setup :P
This brings back traumatising memories of trying to pvp on Freelancer with engine kill. No matter hoiw many hours I put into it I just couldn't compete with the more competent players.
Sweet. The visual diagram at the end showing the turning radius really made it click for me. For verticle thrust do you use buttons on your saitek or do you use the 360 controller? From what I recall, up on the 360 controller gives you forward thrust momentum, yes? I use the full saitek x55 set up.
+Ross Fox I also use the x55 Rhino but only the joystick (more detailed reasons why on my discussion page) but instead of the throttle I use a gamepad for all ship thrusters. I prefer it anyway due to most hotas throttles having no analogue hats/povs on them, they're always digital. Still, even with a hotas throttle, and with the very fact when piloting with fa off most counters required are full thruster inputs anyway (simply held for a certain period/duration) then digital controls won't be such a disadvantage. If anything analogue thruster control is more imperative when piloting with flight assist On to regulate ship translation speeds/velocities. As described in this vid, I actually use the left stick on the gamepad for forwards/backwards and lateral thrust, then add vertical thrust on the Left trigger (still analogue) and bumper (this is the only digital mapping I have but it is mapped to thrust down which on the whole is the least used thruster of all of them, [if performing the roll until your target either flies over your head or tracks up the screen, a technique explained in more detail in part 2]).
MrLunithy You are one of the lucky ones. I too learnt when it was much easier in early beta before the dust was scaled back, it certainly _is_ harder now simply because of this vector hud aid being harder to see but at least it's still there I suppose. :)
Look Inverted Never really used it (Because I could never get the hang of it!), except for sliding to get extra speed, and then I noticed that it seemed to be made more manageable in the later builds.
vidstarr Yeah that is a note to mention that is actually an easier element now, thanks vidstarr. The velocity "speed thresholds" when not facing your current vector (travelling vertically/laterally), we didn't have these in early beta so was harder in this regard, much more speed to scrub off meaning having to hold thruster counters for a much longer period!
I've tried flight assist off, but I just can't seem to get it but that's most likely because I use a gamepad as I instinctually understand how to do it. I flew with engines off in FFE but I had a joystick then; and it was pure joy. Docking with space stations was no problem whatsoever. I just can't seem to turn that instinct into reality with the controller I use. I'll be ordering a HOTAS flight system before too much longer. I expect that will make it much easier and am waiting rather impatiently for the next two paychecks.
Kelly Rayburn Hi Kelly, I did try and use a gamepad on its own as a complete controller myself when I first tried this game back in Alpha and had difficulty initially even with flight assist on, but for sure with no flight assistance damping the rotation it is extremely hard to input the slightest controls with just a gamepad's thumbstick, which is what is needed to pilot with no assistance, the counters needed - the smaller the better. You can't go wrong with a hotas, you won't regret the investment and which have you gone for? (interesting to hear the varied choices people make and I'm nosey)
I'm thinking about a Thrustmaster T-Flight Hotas X. I'd like an X55 but it's just a bit too expensive for me (right now). I'm going to save up for it, but right now, the price of the T-Flight is looking really good. Seen a lot of good reviews on it. But I have no problem controlling the ship with flight assist on using the game pad. Just seems kind of limiting. I fly a T-7 without shields and can dock without scraping. No way could I do that with assist off with the pad.
Kelly Rayburn hahaha, you mentioning scraping a Type-7 through the letter box brings back so many memories (and perhaps bad dreams), I did that so often I started to wonder if I was doing something wrong. Cockpit positioned at bottom of ship.. check,, landing gear not deployed yet.. check,, back of station in view through the letterbox.. check,, right here goes.. warning, warning, warning, "blocking main access is a crime, don't risk annihilation, make way!" I'm trying, I'm trying (stuck in cattle grid) er oh! _PS: Yeah I've heard good things about the Thrustmaster T-Flight Hotas X too, good value stick._ :) _Edit: any joystick that has three axes will be such an improvement over the gamepad (that was your main issue - couldn't yaw and roll), but the Thrustmaster does have the yaw twist so you'll be fine with that_
Look Inverted The T-flight Hotas has 5 axes. I'm figuring I'll use the hat up and down for vertical thrust (at least temporarily until I can find a better solution). Joy up/down (pitch), Joy left/right (roll) Joy twist (yaw) Throttle for speed control (of course) and the horizontal axes on the throttle for lateral. Only axis that leaves is vertical. Maybe I can find a good set of pedals for that as I would like to have more control than the hat will give me. And yeah, docking a T-7 without scraping does take some practice, but it's become second nature to me now.
Kelly Rayburn 5 axes? don't you mean 4?, I left the throttle axis by the wayside, unless you are counting the little fore and middle finger analogue buttons as an axis, which I suppose it is really so five yeah. I would expect the digital buttons on the throttle itself under your thumb would be the most obvious for your vertical thrust yes/no? Leaves all translation in one hand (left) and perhaps the pov on the joystick for power distribution (you are going to need this pwr dist regularly). Each to their own of course, pedals are a good addition I can imagine if you use them for something, perhaps as a throttle and brake if you are a car driver, might feel natural and then the main throttle axis and the analogue left/right buttons on the throttle for vertical & lateral respectively. Vertical thrust on the pedals, would that just not be too weird being a horizontal axis so to speak?? What ever works I suppose, good luck Kelly and which ever way you configure it all you won't regret your hotas purchase :)
Great video and I really struggle to pick up FA-OFF such that after a few seconds of tank-slapping I turn it off. Do you use more deadzone on the pitch/roll axes? I just can't seem to add small enough inputs to correct changes...hence the tank-slapping frustration! I have a HOTAS-X (which I think Isinona uses?). Right, better watch the next part! Big respect to you FA-OFF pilots.
James Moss Hi James, thanks for you comments. The "tank slapping" (good description, you must be a biker), does improve over time the more you practice, and remember to anchor your elbow. To be honest something that I didn't really say in this part 1 but it is covered early on in part 2 that should hopefully help... think of applying each counter axis as a 'durated stop' (if that makes sense). Practice stopping the rotation by holding the relevant counter for just the right amount of time. It's not necessarily about how much of an axis you apply, it's for how long you apply it. Of course the smaller the axis amount you apply the better, but generally most if not all inputs (including thruster counters) are all about how *long* you hold each of them. Good luck! :) _(edit: about the dead zones you mention, definitely not, dead zones are best avoided at all times for the most part, only use these if your rotation is tracking on its own when your hand isn't on the stick, check with fa on)_
i'v just watched your video, great work....i set up my xbox controller up but what do you use for yaw or roll....i have my left controller for thrust forward and back and thursting left to right.....my right controller is for pitch and yaw but how do i roll then....
Just getting back into ED and finding these videos really helpful. Late to the party here, but wondering if there's a good way to translate these flight controls to a PS4 DualShock controller. Any recommended way to achieve yaw without a joystick that I can twist? Or could I get by without yaw in most cases?
Yeah, sadly the common gamepad controller doesn't come with enough axis, only option really is to use a switchable toggle where you opt for Yaw or Roll at any given time (trying to fly without all three main axis will be very limiting, especially with fixed hardpoints - be impossible to aim precisely). Frontier was at least aware of this issue for those who haven't a hotas by incorporating a toggle in options/settings. Best I can advise, if there's anything else I can help you with let me know, appreciate your compliments. _edit: Just been thinking about it - what about using the bumper buttons (usually rb/lb or r1/l1) for rolling? You're quickly running out of convenient buttons for other things but perhaps using your computer keyboard for extraneous functions?_
Appreciate the reply. Bumpers as roll might be an option worth trying, I'll look into it. Was testing the "yaw into roll" settings this morning. Tried setting it so that only the slightest of roll input equated to yaw but it felt pretty awkward and seemed like it might be hard to manage consistently. Of course, the Thrustmaster HOTAS for Playstation may just be the way to go for the right hand. @@LOOKINVERTED
@@noahe.4990 For a casual game buying a hotas is hard to justify but if really investing the time to play properly you won't regret buying a hotas, (add a headlook device whether it be TrackIR or ED tracker) and the complete experience is convincingly immersive - highly recommended (and suddenly the costs start to spiral 🙂 ) Good luck!
this is a very old video, but it has to be said. in a video talking about controls and explaining how user input affects flying, it is very hard to follow if we *can't see your inputs*
Is there any possible way one could take advantage of all the Newtonian physics and inertia of flight assist off along with the rotation counters and all that WITHOUT giving up solid pitch and yaw control? That would be great be cause FA OFF turning is a nightmare without a controller or joystick
:P Hi :P, unfortunately not, ship rotation can not be separated from intertia/ship translation, they both come as a package. I understand why you are asking, getting used to countering this rotation with out the aid of the computer damping is perhaps the hardest part of learning to fly with no assistance but it is at least manageable with a conventional hotas joystick. I'm presuming you are using mouse for ship rotation, a bit of an obvious question but have you tried adjusting the power and sensitivity curves? I know it can be a costly peripheral but if you intend to play Elite often and intend to get in to the game, you can't go wrong in purchasing a proper hotas, or at the very least just a joystick and use a gamepad for ship translation/thrusters like I do myself. Probably not the answer you wanted or perhaps were expecting but don't hesitate to ask me anything further.
Could you please list the input devices you're using to achieve your flight model. ie. are you using just a Xbox controller with an IR tracker ? Plus what are the devices assigned to control. As a great man once said " To build anything from character to great cities and machines of immense complexity, one needs to know what tools are required. "
+GravyB0nes Forgive me Gravy, you aren't the first to ask me, I wasn't very clear at all for my personal setup. I basically use an xbox controller in my left hand instead of a hotas' hands on throttle (left stick used obv for forwards/backwards and lateral thrust and the Left Trigger for Vertical Up thrust & Left Bumper for vertical down [thrust down being the only digital input as it's the most rarely used thruster of all of them]). Right hand is standard default hotas joystick [x55 Rhino] with pitch, roll & yaw in each of their usual respective axes (yaw twist). I also use a headtracker called TrackIR (v5) for head movement. As is said... a good workman never blames his tools... what a crock of s.../ Hope this helps, let me know if you require anything further :)
+Look Inverted Hello, I've watched all your videos and I seem to need a tip here. I dont have a joystick and use only an xbox gamepad. What seems to be the problem is not having a yaw control, and turning on "yaw on initial roll" without a way to properly and manually counteract it is near impossible to manage. Of course using yaw on initial roll I should be able to cancel the yaw with a similar counter input; however I'm sure you see the problem here in that this is not ideal. I've tried with all yaw on roll settings and none of them seem to provide the control i need. Any tips? I have also tried with yaw/roll button mode and as I must constantly switch between the two in order to counter any yaw/roll the workload becomes a bit overbearing. Am I being too picky? Or should I just get a joystick.
+Terrato If only we we're able to customize the settings of FA (perhaps auto correcting yaw/roll/pitch/etc) If i were allowed to do this I think I could achieve a manageable setup on controller.
Terrato Ok, as much as a gamepad on its own is not ideal (as you're finding out using the yaw on roll option which is a bit crap if I'm honest, it gets you going but it's not really suitable for a flight sim with 6DOF), I therefore would recommend a proper joystick with a yaw twist at the very least. However, in the mean-time you could try bounding one of the axes that you're down/missing to the triggers on the gamepad. Perhaps using these triggers for Roll which would give you all rotation control surfaces. This of course leaves an issue with where to bound what would normally be bound to those Triggers, I expect Fire and Secondary perhaps. One question, you've presumably got vertical/lateral thrust on the left stick yess, so where have you got forwards/backwards thrust? Finding a "pair" of suitable buttons for this forwards/backwards thrust is going to be an issue in itself, let alone where to bound your fire buttons, but perhaps you could use the "lb" and "rb" for fire buttons (and or triggers if you switch roll to these lb and rb buttons, then use right & left joystick click buttons for forwards/backwards thrust respectively (meaning you have access to ALL control surfaces with your thumbs on each stick and your forefingers hovering over each of the triggers/bumpers. This is pretty odd to all intents and purposes but as I can see, there's not much option to configure all surfaces at one time any other way. This leads me back to really needing a hotas (or at the least a joystick and then your gamepad in your left hand, similar to what I do myself). Sorry I can't help much further, what I do know is Frontier seamingly wrestled with this very dilemma when configuring the default set up for xbox version, their "workaround" was having a switchable flight mode that included an alternate configuration for some control surfaces, then switching to a separate mode to obtain the others. (I'm not sure if this option is available in the pc options, though I haven't looked to be honest). I hope _some_ of this is helpful :)
Look Inverted more than willing to give it a try. Thanks for answering my question so quickly! I'll get back to you to see how it works, though it may take some time to adjust, ill have to give it a good solid couple days to see of its something i can manage.
haha at 13:20 when you say docking will probably be harder, I think docking is easier with FA off and I can fly around fine, its just when im in combat I cant do any hard turns at all while keeping my ship facing the direction its actually moving. I can do slow turns but I find that my vertical thrusters cant provide enough thrust fast enough. That could just be a problem with the ship im flying since I have only tried combat in the tutorials and not with my upgraded eagle yet
tillter321 Hey tillter, yeah I agree, docking is not hard at all with flight assist off, like you say, if anything it's easier, just with this being a "basics covered first" - Part 1, didn't want to scare anyone off. I am currently working on, literally right now Part 2 with exercises for more useful manouvres and lessons to help players get to grips with flight assist off and toggling between the two modes, should be up sometime hopefully at the weekend, if not early next week which I'm sure pilots will find a great deal more useful. The issue you describe is perhaps because you are travelling at a higher velocity when trying to pitch up with thrust up to re-align your vector quickly, but probably not this. If not I expect the main reason is because if you aren't travelling at an exact straight downwards vector, so slightly travelling laterally as well, one needs to apply these lateral thruster inputs as well (as small as they are), along with your thrust up, so in essence the thrust is split up exactly in the correct amounts for each. This is one thing the assist computer does effortlessly is appling all correct amounts of thruster inputs. Main suggestion, is to make sure the space dust is travelling pretty much exactly vertically up your field of view so the only thruster the ship assist on computer would only need would be to add thrust up, so to replicate this, the best way is to simulate what the computer would do in the same circumstance, with just thrust up needed for the quickest vector change. As far as thruster upgrades etc, I believe upgraded thruster modules give you a higher top speed, but crucially the higher rated thruster upgrades have higher optimum masses, check in your Eagle you haven't exceeded this optimum mass which might explain if the ship feels heavier than normal. Either fit lighter components or a higher rated thruster upgrade to cope with the extra weight because it has a higher optimum mass. Not exceeding this optimum mass is critical in getting the best manouverability out of every craft. I expect you do know all this, so forgive me for stating the obvious if you do. Perhaps you do already know all this but just checking. Thanks tillter for your comments :)
LOOK INVERTED yea I did already know all the mass stuff, and my eagle is fitted to have a lower mass than the thrusters optimal mass so that shouldnt be a problem. il try paying extra attention to the space dust next time I try. A bit off topic, but do you know how to change the X55 throttle hats to be 4way instead of 8? I tried changing it in the saitek software but elite is still picking it up as an 8 way I think because I can still use the diagnal inputs and I very often combine two truster inputs on accident and its driving me nuts!
tillter321 No worries, apologies for stating the obvious. The space dust is critical to watch at all times really, as a novice (ish), one finds this tiresome initially having to make a conscious effort to look directly at its direction, but in the end, one notices it subconsciously and becomes second nature and one relaxes in the end. I don't really have to think about it now, my subconscious does it for me without me noticing. As far as switching the POVs/HATs to 4 way as opposed to 8, I'm not sure, I've never had an issue with this myself, but will investigate it for you, like you say, there must be a way to turn off these diagonal inputs, I'll have to get back to you about this soon. Give me a day, and I'll have some info for you that might help :) One thing, would be to map some things of little importance, not quite sure what thinking off hand, but if you mapped inputs to these diagonal POV directions, it wouldn't combine the two adjacent POV controls as standard. You'll need to find functions that don't have a place or don't work whilst in normal space, not sure if there are enough other inputs (4 in total I suppose) to fill the whole lot that aren't any use whilst in normal space. Still in the mean time, I'll do a bit of research :)
LOOK INVERTED Thanks, il keep looking too and il let you know if I find anything, but in the mean time I did some experimenting and bound all my thrusts back to my keyboard instead of the x55 throttle and what really surprised me was that I could do those turn much easier with almost no problems. Now I just need to find a way to make it that easy on the x55 throttle! Thanks for the help again, and the tip in your video about knowing what thrusters to use to align the ship with its vector was really useful, I never thought of it like that!
tillter321 One thing I should say, thinking about it, there are many an occasion when two thrusters vertical and lateral combined are required for an angled trajectory strafe, if you didn't have this ability, it would restrict your thruster momentum, with only 4 ways and never a combination of two of them. If you want my honest opinion, I really think you should try and stick with the 8 way pov, so you could after a bit of practice apply just one thruster for a simple strafe, or a combo of two to strafe at an angle. something to consider, it might be driving you nuts at present, but in the long run, once you get used to it, you will be a much better pilot with all directions of strafing possible. Food for thought for you, but I'll still have a scout about for any info to switch the 8 way off if indeed you decide you'd prefer to stick with just 4. :)
No probs Kevin, the hud is I've found, the best balance to try and get every original colour to stand out that little bit more other than the glaring normal yellow/orange hud which simply annoyed me. (turning the brightness down obviously effected all colours). Thanks for the compliments! 0.4, 0, 0.10 0.1, 0.8, -0.2 0.1, 0.1, 1
Thanks for this video. I'll have to go over it a couple of times before it really sinks in. I have trouble understanding the relation between pitch and thrust. It's obvious that you apply pitch and thrust in a turn (I do that too) but I don't really understand why. Come to thing of it..the thruster influences your vector as you turn...hmmm. Thanks again :)
Yeah you got it yourself. Without the flight assist computer adding these thrusters for you (which is what is happening with Assist On even though you yourself aren't inputing these vertical or lateral thrusters, the computer _is_ so your ship's vector changes in relation to how much turn (pitch/yaw) you've applied), so you have to input these yourself otherwise you'll simply be orientating the ship and not changing its vector. Part 2 is now available if you're interested with actual practical exercises and suggestions to practice, starting with only one thruster and its opposing, and progressively getting harder as you add additional thrusters depenging on your varied ship orientations. Thanks for your comments :)
Thanks for putting in the time making these videos. I occasionally try manoeuvering with flight assist off without much success. My attitude is all over the place. I think I'll do better when I actually don't think too much. Your FPS mind trick might come in handy. I'll be watching the rest of your videos tonight :)
+Evohaler Good luck, hoping the x55 is serving you well still and the h.u.d. software that comes with it will help with the fa off ship rotation sensitivity :)
One thing you forgot to mention is that FA on or off there is NO difference in turn speeds etc. I can turn as fast as a FA off play, simply by playing with the thrust and afterburner.
Thanks for the vid, will be spending a bit of time learning this mode of flight to see if I can get my head around it. Fairly new to Newtonian flight so might be a little bit of a challenge hehe.
+Jim Cole Hi Jim and you're welcome. The learning curve is steep but well worth the time put in, even if you only use fa off in spurts in the end. I simply fly with it off exclusively and all the time for the shear joy I get from it, and it is a space game/sim after all. Good luck!
Well, flight assist off is a great way to learn that your hardware doesn't center properly lol. Makes it a bit tougher learning, but will keep at it. Do you know of any software that can recenter a joystick or thrust module?
Jim Cole Are you referring to the spring effect one gets on a hotas' joystick, the fact that this obviously re-centers itself with the spring effect when you take your hand off the stick and you are wanting this same effect on the throttle? Presumably not on any conventional hotas setup unless you use a gamepad's thumbstick for throttle (much like I do and have the throttle axis on full range so trailing throttle is at centre axis) or you could always use another joystick in your other hand. But then again you mention software, so I'm presuming you mean some facility to center the ship's rotation or dampen it so it stops when you centre the joystick, much like you get with assist On but you want Newtonian flight for ship vector momentum only. If so, unfortunately not, one can't separate rotation assist without momentum assistance, they come as a package, however there are software[s] such as "Joystick Curves" where one can set a power curve for ship rotation sensitivity.
+Look Inverted Actually, I was referring to the joystick. I have to hold the stick slightly up and to the left to keep it centered. I know I used to have a program that I could use to recalibrate joysticks and such with but I can't remember what it was called, nor if there is still anything out there that would do it.
Jim Cole Ar right, Windows itself should be able to do that for you. If you find your joystick's properties (Control Panel/Devices and Printers/Game Controllers) select your joystick's properties and you should then get a notification box with Settings and Test tabs. The Calibration option in here should launch a troubleshooter and recentre your device (and/or set up deadzones for the slight axis that is applying a control surface by accident). What joystick/hotas are you using incidentally, sometimes one has to calibrate in the joystick's own software again with either this calibration or deadzones? (if the windows' calibration option is blanked out and not clickable)
+usinkangkong Yes indeed, here's a guy that does exactly that, he ran a little tutorial whilst running a keyboard script so you could see which keys he's pressing. ua-cam.com/video/JCkoz9dT91A/v-deo.html Only issue he has - he has to use a conventional joystick for supercruise. I believe it's something to do with the relative mouse mode option that has to be selected when piloting with fa off, but one doesn't need this in supercruise obviously as the flight assist is automatically re-engaged every time but this relative mouse didn't appear to disengage itself. Perhaps Frontier have sorted this now.
i assume you cover this in the other vidoes but is it better to just go all in and learn how to use FA on and off or start simple with it off if you have never used it off before and then try it off and on to better your skills? I want to watch more videos and tutorials but i just got the game and i want to play. I could watch videos for weeks on how to become better but if i do, i'll never even play...
+Actually Arin Indeed, that's a good analogy, it certainly does release the mechanics when turned off, highly recommended just for the shear fun of it quite honestly but it does have its advantages in certain situations. Good luck!
+TheYeti2124 Aha, that is THE question really, good question! Short answer.. probably those who toggle are the ones to be feared the most. Long answer...The issue why that is hard to answer is simply because when one flies with fa off all the time one is getting the advantage of the reduced heat generation all the time as well as a consequence. Whether this advantage off-sets the disadvantage of the lack of accurate aiming due to no rotational damping, much like what you get with fa on.. is a very good question. Perhaps in the early stages, and even once you're competent, exclusive fa off probably is a slight disadvantage, however... I intend to keep practicing and keep practicing in the hope one day it serves me well and get the full benefit of the reduced heat generation, so subsequently making it harder for target lock.
Flight assit on can be aquaited to flight in an atmosphere. Off can ge aquaited with flight with out an atmpsphere, which in space is more realistic. Controling a craft in an atmosphere requires wings, flaps, tail, rudder. In space thrusters are needed, wings and such are of no use.
I have a question related to this actually. I'm in a position at the moment where I have access to neither a gamepad, nor a joyttick or HOTAS system, therefore I'm using the keyboard + mouse to controll the game, which isn;'t terrible with FA on as it stands. In the event that I wanted to learn with FA off, would you still recommend the FPS approach as an intuitive control scheme change? W and S for forward and reverse thrust (which is default), but remapping A and D to lateral thrust as opposed to yaw? In that event I suppose it would make sense to remap the now unbound Q and E to yaw, for limited requirements of finger movement?
On keyboard + mouse, I would suggest Pitch and Yaw on your mouse, then Q & E for Roll, leaving A & D for lateral thrust but W & S for vertical thrust. This obviously leaves forwards/backwards without a mapping, could you not put this on your mouse wheel perhaps? This setup would be fairly similar if you were playing a fps in a lateral sense (sidestepping), it'll just be getting used to W & S for vertical strafing and the mouse wheel for forwards & backwards thrust. Then with the fine control for aiming in your right hand on mouse, and be able to roll when needed in your left hand on the keyboard. With Yaw being the slowest axis (certainly compared to Pitch) perhaps the differing sensitivity between them might take a bit of getting used to, but considering all aiming is done in one hand (and is very similar if you were using a joystick) it should feel very natural once you've overcome these orientation axes differing sensitivities. I'm sure you're aware but I'll mention it just in case, but Frontier have implemented very useful power curve and sensitivity adjusters, so aiming with a mouse shouldn't be too cumbersome once you find a level you like. I have a friend who uses keyboard and mouse, and he's pretty good (Falkrum7 on here). I'll ask him how he has it all mapped for you. Shouldn't be too long for a reply.
LOOK INVERTED Thanks for that, seems a very unusual set up but I;ll certainly give it a go and probably dip into Solo to have a play with the setup so I don't run the risk of getting any player interference XD
Adam Coleman Forgive me, I've just remembered how he does it. He actually found the same issue, mainly with mapping vertical thrust and/or forwards/backwards thrust to these W & S keys. He couldn't find a way to have both that felt intuitive to use. This is the main issue, which thrusters do you map to W & S... forwards/Backwards or Vertical thrust? In the end he bought a Razor Nostromo (keypad arrangement thingy), where he has W & S for forwards/backwards but then uses a little d-pad under his right thumb for vertical and lateral strafe. So.. this basically means this setup I've given you is perhaps the best arrangement on a conventional keyboard, it's this 'which translation axis' do you put on W & S, either vertical thrust or forwards/backwards thrust. So yeah, if you put forwards/backwards on the mouse wheel this could be the only option, or vertical thrust on the mouse wheel, but I expect that would just be weird. I'll do a bit of research on the forum for you, see what else others are suggesting.
+pee wee I use a headtracking device called TrackIR. Absolutely fantastic device that works with an infra-red camera (positioned on top of one's monitor) that utilizes three pick-ups on a baseball cap clip, when you turn your head - the in-game cockpit character does exaclty the same. 'T'is rather expensive, though worth every penny in my opinion, however there are cheaper versions that pretty much do the same thing for a lot less wallet. Check out the "edtracker" if you're interested in using a headtracker and are on a budget.
it would be nice if you could also somehow show us the keys you are pressing at every moment, but I can understand if you dont want to do that because it would take a lot more work so it might not be worth it edit: Oh you actually show the joystick at the part where you talk about rotation and stuff nice :) edit2: ok because I play with keyboard and mouse some things arent really useful for me :S
+Diamond Games Thanks for the feedback, part 2 and 3 where we actually start learning with specific exercises, these do have on-screen cues for which button[s] I'm pressing when I felt they were needed.
+Jeffrey Herkk not a noob question, and yes ideally you need a hotas (hands on joystick specifically) to play Elite with fa off. This is not to say it would be impossible with a gamepad but considering the axis extent you have got to work with on just one of the little sticks on a gamepad, inputing the right amount of counter each time would probably _(edit: well.. it is, I've tried it)_ be quite tricky.
+Jeffrey Herkk No probs Jeffrey, I highly recommend a hotas _(edit again: or at the very least just a joystick to use with a gamepad in your other hand for ship thrust, much like I do myself)_ of any kind really, but keep in mind in the mean time using mouse and keyboard can be sufficient to control a ship with no flight assistance as Frontier has implemented comprehensive adjustment tools such as mouse sensitivity and power curve options. Some players swear by using just M&K whilst flying with fa off.
+Jeffrey Herkk Yah. Its stupid flying without one. I tried a flight simulator with a keyboard and it was so imprecise. Just get a good Logitech 3d joystick for like $25... Have Fun!
WHAT??? Are you using xbox-gamepad for left hand? Need your control layout if so! I also try it with my mouse for right hand, but there was not enough buttons to control usual systems. BTW Hello mate! Great tutorial there, lots of useful tips.
Hi mate, yeah indeed I am. I pretty much explained my setup in this guide, but I can confirm it here again for you. Basically Left Stick and Left Trigger & Left Bumper used, left stick for forward/backward thrust, then lateral thrust - left and right on the same stick, and I use the Left Trigger for Thrust Up and Left Bumper for Thrust Down. I chose to use thrust up on the trigger because this is the thruster used most because I roll until my target is above me, one would probably naturally use the bumper for thrust up being the control on the top of the two, but found it tiring to use and my hand got tired very quickly. To be honest I barely use left bumper (thrust down), only times is if I haven't timed my roll soon enough and need to boost down with thrust down held to re-direct quickly but very rare, plus for lining up for escape vector into SC as all thrusters are needed, and landing of course, but thrust down is certainly used the least. I also use the d-pad for power distribution, and a few other things like Frame Shift on 'back', 100% max throttle on 'x' for when I'm in FS and so don't have to hold the stick forwards all the time. Are you considering using a pad with your mouse? Only slight disadvantage with using the pad is the smaller increments of throttle are harder to find, but with assist off, most thruster inputs required are maximums anyway. It does have the advantage of being able to apply full throttle and full reverse in quick succession, much quicker than you could ever do on a hotas.
LOOK INVERTED Thanks for detailed answer here, what button do you use for boost, heatsink, target selection and all those usual functions? Right now i am practicing with Razer Nostromo because there is nice d-pad. So i change my setup and using d-pad for vertical and lateral thrusters. Not very much success for now because is hard to relearn, but it should be nice in the end i guess.
Falkrum7 For functions like those, heat sink, silent running, landing gear, cargo hatch etc, are all on POV/HATs on my Rhino. It has three POV/HATs, so 12 functions mappable to these, plenty :) I've used the Razor Nostromo in the past for first person shooters, I've got one myself, fits well in the palm of your hand, only issue to use this for thrusters is of course the digital buttons, so won't have quite the control as analogue inputs, but like we were discussing previously, most thruster inputs are maximums anyway certainly during combat, only real issue will be for landing, but not a massive problem if you take your time. I see the issue you are having, if you started using a gamepad with mouse, you'll be having a serious issue with mappable controls, at least on your Nostromo you've plenty to choose from, like I've said my Rhino has lots of mappable buttons so no function is absent. That said, the gamepad does have other buttons on it, simply you'd have to move your hand from holding it to press them, I could use some of these for less critical functions like landing gear, cargo hatch etc, and I expect I wouldn't really have any issues. Am waffling, so many permutations for so many control methods, plus like you say it takes a bit of time to get used to these changes once we switch to an alternative contoller, not sure if I'm helping or making things worse for you with any valuable advice of use ;)
I'm getting better at this (slowly), but I have a real problem sticking to enemies. If they're being aggressive, I just seem to orbit them at kind of a set distance, and I can't get in a steady position, let alone an advantageous one! Any further tips to help with that? I'm really enjoying it and it seems like a new game all of a sudden, I just can't imagine myself ever not sucking! It's really hard. Like, old school hard - a flash back to the days of my gaming youth! Only problem is, now I have a family, and they don't seem to understand my latest obsession with flying a space ship with no training wheels!
+goldentramps Hi goldentramps. Generally it's just practice (and continuing to accept all the back chat from the family due to your new obsession ;-). Main tip I would suggest is continue to stay in the Sidewinder and take on similar craft up to the size of a Cobra for instance (something like this: ua-cam.com/video/fgfO_mrI0qc/v-deo.html ) which will enable you to manoeuvre where you want a lot more easily simply because it's more responsive, then gradually navigate to piloting the larger ships once your muscle memory is engrained from the smaller ones. One is constantly applying thrust once it's starting to all fall in to place and click, perhaps you're doing this already but aren't necessarily applying the correct thruster to get in to the "position" you want, so again the smaller craft will enable you to do this more easily and start to learn controlling habits. What are you using to control?
+Look Inverted Thanks for the reply :) I'm using CH gear to control: a combatstick, pro throttle and pro pedals. I've tried X52-pro, X55 and Cobra M5 too, but I think my current setup is my favourite so far. I'm flying about in a DBS at the moment as it seemed to fit the bill well for FAOFF, but I can hop back in a sidewinder.
goldentramps Pedals ay, do you use them for the conventional ship yaw or main throttle? (some seem to prefer it that way but I would prob use them as yaw control surface if I used them, beneficial being able to separate that control from the stick itself - instead of yaw twist), that will certainly help with your control which ever way you have it set up. DBS is still a relatively agile craft but I learnt most of my combat in a Sidey, has stood me in good stead I think.
+Look Inverted I use the slide motion for yaw, but I also have the toe brake actions for forward and reverse thrust, but I don't really use it and I have full range throttle mapped, and also buttons for reverse and forward thrust on the back of the throttle which I use most of all tbh. Using pedals for yaw is taking some getting used to as I flew with it on the twist axis for so long, but for flight assist off it's great, as I no longer get accidental yawing when I'm rolling.
@@goldentramps wow, i never really thought to use my pedals for ED. I'm going to try this. thanks. I only have a Logitech 3D so i dont really have a separate throttle. I associate pedals with xplane, but never did with space flight. haha
I was going to do this if I could on Xbox one but I can't map vertical thrusters to left trigger AND left bumper. There's only one spot: vertical thrust AXIS. Sonofabitch.
Really excellent tutorial mate. I so want to get good at this but just overwhelmed by my own crapiness. (To hell with you spellcheck!) Come the 23rd century this will be an essential study tool for noob pilots I expect.
Tomas Gruber Hi Tomas, no each thruster input lateral/vertical or forwards/backwards comes as a set of thrusters on each side of the ship, I would expect that would be very hard to control anyway if it acted like a tank (or a passenger jet would probably be a more apt and appropriate description) which is I suppose what you you mean, to combine that approach with yaw and pitch would get very confusing quick in a 6dof enviroment, but I understand why you are asking, I'm familiar with that kind of controller which has been designed for that twin engine approach.
yea i tried flying assist off and even without left/right engine thrust control it was too much for me.. im now using flight assist off just for few sec. in dogfight to try geting tighjter turns
Tomas Gruber Sounds good. To be fair you wouldn't want to fly exclusively with no flight assistance like I do myself anyway, I simply carry on this way because I'm stubborn and having such a great time. Like you say if you use it for your tighter turns and perhaps when you need to keep momentum going fa off can help with this because constant throttle is not required for constant velocity and subsequently generate less heat as a result. Doesn't sound like a huge advantage, but in a game that is built on temperature signals for target lock and radar resolve it can have advantages in most circumstances, it's simply whether ones' lack of control offsets any advantages gained, so I choose to continue to practice and gain experience to perhaps benefit from these. Thanks for your comments Tomas, I hope you found something useful across these guides, may we come across each other in the big black? Who knows!!
This can be played with a gamepad (PS4 or xBox) in normal Assist On mode, but you'll have issues playing without a HOTAS in Assist Off mode in my opinion. It will be extremely difficult without simultaneous access to all three rotation axis of Pitch, Roll and Yaw (on a gamepad you have to use a toggle to constantly switch between Roll and Yaw due to the nature of the design). Hope this helps, but regardless of which Assist mode you use, you'll simply have more capability with a proper HOTAS, just even more so with Assist Off.
@@eliaspanayi3465 Absolutely so, there are players who've got extremely proficient in flying with assist off and with K&M, main advantage being the mouse aim for shooting (i.e: Pitch & Yaw) - hardest part using your keyboard hand with the usual WASD (two axis of vertical strafe & lateral strafe) plus two other keyboard keys for the remaining axis (forward / backward throttle - can't think off-hand which keys they use: some actually use the mouse roller I've heard, some use yet two more keyboard keys), plus another two for ship roll (usually Q&E). Plus keep in mind all these (bar the mouse) are digital inputs, not analogue like you'd get from a hotas or gamepad (for the most part), though flying with assist off you're using sustained inputs for most control surfaces so it's no particular drawback. All being said and possible, the HOTAS is more than just a control method, it's for immersion too but isn't really justified for casual play of just one game / simulator.
+ayures Terms I'll be using so no one gets confused, yes there are clearly more terms to describe the same thing. Your point being? _edit: "bearing"'s a good one I'll give you that, I should/could have used that :)_
+ayures Yeah, true, I had neglected to think about aeronautical terms, though I still think they don't quite line up. Heading still refers to the direction you're travelling AND the direction the craft is pointing since in a plane they don't really diverge (they do slightly but heading is still generally used to refer to direction of travel, and the offset from that is angle of attack). Bearing is used to refer to the relative orientation of two objects, and has no relation to velocity. If an object is behind me, it's bearing 180. to my right, bearing 90. From the perspective of an air traffic controller, he would denote an object that was due east of the tower, traveling due south, as "bearing 90, heading 180" Though, of course, this gets messier if you're thinking of heading as the direction the craft is pointing, and that they might not be travelling that direction relative to the GROUND, which can vary because of wind. In which case, you might consider "heading" to be the direction the craft is pointing, and "track" to be the direction the craft is travelling, but this is misleading. Track is, from the perspective of the Air Traffic Controller "what really matters" in a way, but they exist in a different frame of reference to the craft. From the perspective of the craft, it is always flying in the direction it is heading. It is in a different environment (the wind) and the fact that the earth is spinning underneath is of no consequence to the plane. If a plane was heading north, and there was a 100 mile an hour wind to the east, it would be tracking wildly to the east relative to the ground, but from the plane's perspective, it would be flying straight and true to the north, with no crosswind, and zero angle of attack. In space we have no wind, and we're not measuring our orientation or velocity relative to other objects, rather a universal galactic coordinate space. So, Track is not something we care about, and "angle of attack" gets confusing as it is relative to your heading, so really we need a new absolute term to reference to that so: If one wanted to use largely naval/aeronautic terms, but augmented for space, I would propose "Heading" to be equal to your velocity, "Facing" to refer to the direction the craft's nose is pointing, and "Bearing" can stay consistent as the relation of ship Facing to another object's position
jetison333 Good question. Of course one could set digital thrust as these with the thrust overrides in options but not ideal in the slightest, but yeah if your pedals are regarded as a single axis the throttle axis itself should accept it as one for an analogue input. Pedals are primarily for yaw axis, so I don't see why they won't work. I presume you are asking because you actually haven't any pedals to try otherwise you would have tested it, but if you like I can ask a friend of mine who has pedals to test this out for you if you want?
jetison333 Hi jetison, yeah I've been reliably informed that as long as the pedals work on an analogue principle (very unusual if they didn't and wouldn't be worth buying if so), then yes you can set these pedals on any axis you want, so sure for throttle you'd map your pedal axis to the main throttle axis, and like I described in this video, make sure you've the axis range on 'full range', then you'll "accelerate" with forward thrust on one and "brake" with reverse thrust on the other, possibly inverting the axis if it wasn't the way round you wanted.
I realy enjoyed these video's and help make ( i hope ) life in ED a little easyier. +1 Sub from North Wales. Ps i know that change of accent Welshman born in Wales brought up in England and moved back to Wales.
Its not correct that you can't reduce amount of vertical thrust when pitching with FA ON. All you have to do is to thrust DOWNWARDS at amount you desire - this will instruct computer to apply LESS UPWARDS thrust. This will allow you execute exactly same turn as with FA OFF - by having amount of tradeoff between distance/turn tightness as you wish.
+RidingTheFlow You are correct, perhaps that section could have been explained a bit more thoroughly, adding thrust down instead to counter the normal thrust up with make you turn more quickly but one is more likely to stall as a consequence. Perhaps it's something to do with the assist computer almost getting confused a little, but still one can turn more quickly with fa off as turn rate increases the longer you hold it, and in conjunction with just thrust up and a small amount of forwards thrust one can turn more quickly with less likelyhood of stalling. Appreciate the correction, in some ways comparing the two doesn't quite relate as a fair test as in one respect the assist computer seems to be able to cheat to halt a falling ship much more quickly than in fa off for instance, but in another respect this computer seems to halt ones' progress in a deterimental manner in some circumstances. Still I much prefer applying the exact amount of thrust in the fa off mode in conjuction with the increased turn rate possible.
+Look Inverted I don't think its "more likely" to stall, ultimately its all boils down to how much you practised doing it - I don't think its any more likely to stall than poorly executed FA-off turn. I find it beneficial because you are still getting advantage of precise rotation compensation if FA-on, allowing to turn & shoot more accurately - with FA off it requires high amount of very precise inputs to keep reticle on target while turning (esp. when enemy is not just going in straight line). In my experience precise rotation is more important than precise translation - because it places reticle on target.
RidingTheFlow I can't argue with that to be honest, in some ways the fa off mode enables one to do certain things easier but in other respects like the rotational damping issue you mention, most certainly not. I suppose it comes down to personal preference, but I will say a pilot who toggles flight assist on & off in the right moments and efficiently is a force to be reakoned with. These pilots who use both modes to their advantage are the ones to be feared the most in combat. Appreciate your feedback, perhaps we'll meet one day on the battlefield and fight along side each other (or perhaps on different sides :-)
+Brothers of Gaming BOG Ideally I'd recommend using a hotas, certainly if you intend to really get in to the game, it is ultimately a flight/space sim. That said I do know of a few cmdrs who have stuck with keyboard and mouse and even fly exclusively with fa off as well and clearly don't have any issues, none the less I'm sure they'd also agree that a proper hotas is a superior controller simply because one has all the control axes primarliy on your joystick with a "twist for yaw" function (as opposed to a mouse where one can only control two of the three axes, yaw and pitch leaving roll for the keyboard, usually on "Q" & "E"). Frontier has at least implemented comprehensive options for mouse specifically, sensitivity and power curve adjusters to at least get you flying with a commensurate amount of success.
+Look Inverted I've got it set up this way for mouse and keyboard - the roll being assigned to Q and E seems to work very well for FA off flying, I was not enjoying the default bindings for that. Even though it's a tremendous challenge, I can confirm that mouse pilots need not despair - FA off is difficult but certainly not impossible. I haven't dared to attempt landing - is rotational correction still applied with FA off?
Matt Van Vrancken Cool, another actual mouse and keyboard user, good to hear you managing even with fa off. I have had a little experience and you're right one can still control one's craft efficiently with k&m, you do at least have those power and sensitivity curves for ship rotation, something the joystick user doesn't get. Er yeah, rotational correction is always off with fa off, it's not needed one simply aligns their roll rotation with the entrance themselves.
Apologies for the delay in replying, interesting take, would be quite a fun way of thinking about it actually with all the lateral "drifting" you'd end up doing as a result, plus forward / reverse thrust would increase or decrease the size of that drift. Good thoughts!!
oh, you're here too, if you stay longer, pause and practice while watching, this is an incredible tutorial, with the other two videos - it's not an easy topic.
+The Andoxico Apologies it's been so long since I made this I'm having trouble remembering, I didn't have the Asp for very long, but looking back at the video I have no 'pips' to shields ever do I and they seem to hold up against weapons fire pretty well, so I expect the best available (or at least close to. I know i wouldn't have fitted anything rubbish, below the optimum mass, certainly not below the hull mass as it wouldn't let you, so probably fitted the 6As).
The Andoxico One can get discounts on these upgrades at Founders World (has everything at 10% off i believe, but one needs Elite status and or a beta backer permit to gain access to the system) and.. also currently in one of the Empire Power Play territories (sorry can't remember which) with a 15% discount if you can find the relevant upgrade. You don't have to be pledged to this particular Power to get the discount (if you'd like I can do a bit of research to find which Empire Power territory it is?) Let me get back to you :) _edit: I've found it: if you go to ANY station exploited or controlled by _*_Li Yong Rui_*_ you will receive a 15% discount on every ship _*_and part_*_ in that station._ Again you don't have to be pledged to this Li Yong Rui power to benefit from the discount, you may simpy have to hunt about to find the upgrade you're looking for in these Li Yong Rui exploited or controlled systems. Usual techniques apply, try high populated High Tech systems to increase your chances of finding the better upgrades/parts.
Holy shit. This is difficult on Xbox One. My ship just keeps rolling and moving all over the place even when I'm still. (I understand Newtonian physics law is reason for this) but holy shit. How am I supposed to control this with the (non able to remap button layout on XB1) I'm a noob to this game - but not space games. I've managed to stop the rolling by doing a roll to the opposite side. However, trying to straighten out is nightmare. Slightest movement has you spinning out of control.
+Papo Papo Yeah ok, I haven't actually played/experienced E:D on the xbox but I can imagine it will be extremely hard to make small enough counters regularly with just a small joystick under ones thumb. It's hard enough with a hotas! You say the button layout is unchangeable, does it not feel intuitive even to play with fa on? I say this as reconfiguring the mappings/bindings aren't going to make much difference to this countering the rotation problem, you'll be using the best option on the pad itself already I'd expect. It's debateable whether there's much of an advantage if any on the pc between fa off & on (less heat generation of fa off is off-set by the lack of rotational damping [inability to aim properly]), but I think on the xbox you've just proved it.
+Look Inverted Thanks for responding. 1st: I subscribed because you have amazing videos. Regarding your question, I feel like they are intuitive with FA On. At least for me - but definitely not Off. It's cool because Xbox will lose my business. I am awaiting reviews of next years HTC Vive & Oculus Rift. Once I figure out which of the two I will commit to, I will be picking up a flight motion seat, and the thrustmaster Hotas and a very strong PC. I've been saving up for a min now so eventually I'll enjoy this game the way it's meant to and join the likes of yourself and others in the community whom are putting up great PC version E:D videos. That said, before I pick that stuff up. M$ releases the Xbox One Elite controller this Oct. It will allow us to remap buttons & sensitivity, at least I will have that. Hopefully I remember, and stop by to let you know how's the experience. But next year, I'm done with console. Will be my first foray into PC, but I'm entering kitted out!
Papo Papo I've yet to jump in/commit to any VR headset as yet, but I certainly will at some point (probably once the dev kits have gone through all the development they need to, don't see much point getting a second rate VR experience), that said I've only just recently got a rig together myself that is capable of running a VR headset and all the other things one uses/runs during a play/gaming session. As far as which VR headset, hmm.. that's a good one and/or a tricky decision. I've heard very good things about the new HTC, that good to the point it's confuses your brain at first being very realistic, something the Oculus doesn't seem to do. I'm not sure, like I say, we'll have a better idea once they're properly released. Hope you get all your gear/rig together succesfully, it can be an expensive hobby, but worth every penny in my opinion when you're still a boy in a candy shop such as I. ;) Please do report back once you're up and running, perhaps we can get together in game at some point, see what trouble we can get in to. Thanks for your compliments and comments :)
+Papo Papo I had done a bit of research already about the "Elite" controller, to be honest when I first heard about it the name lured me in to thinking it was something to do with, or endorsed by Frontier for Elite, but it's just a coincidental name, though I was intrigued in getting one simply because of those paddles you mention. I hadn't actually seen that particular link you've just sent me, certainly looks the part too, but I was really hoping those paddles were analogue but it appears not unfortunately, still might be nice to use. Like I say, I'd be happy to fly along side you, give you any other tips if I can, my callsign is on my homepage if and when you need it. (send me a pm too at the same time so I know who you are). Till then :)
+Look Inverted just as a side note: I wouldn't really call the current DK2 a "second rate VR" experience, as it's already quite awesome and immersive (I really puts you "in there" and adding some good headphones makes it even better). Yes sure the graphics will look better later on, but I wouldn't wanna go back to "without VR" from the DK2 to be honest... :)
ej j Hahaha, I would have thought listening to me drone on about thrusting orientating vectors space dusty ships would be the last thing you want to watch after a hard day's work ;). But each to their own! _edit: you are missing the game already aren't you?_
+Look Inverted I would all the time, in the heat of the battle I no longer pay attention to the sweet spot, therefore I end up doing 180 without the use of thruster unless I'm going really slow.
+BlankFX Haha, why not? (he says confidently). Largest vessel I've fa off'd is an Orca/Type-7 but they're slim and easy to dock in comparison I'd expect to a T-9, never had the pleasure, yet!
+Stunt Panda Now that you mention it.. er no actually, with respect. I've been staring squinty eyed at said asteroid for 5 mins trying to figure it out :) Perhaps you could tell me how's it sitting/positioned? Where's its eyes and ears? Any dog I see looks like the elephant man/dog.
Stunt Panda Hahahahaha, I see it now (or course how couldn't I with that photoshopped doodle). Ah dear, you know what you've done now, I'm going to see daft little sweety doggies when I'm RES hunting finding it extremely hard to get in to the 'Pirate' kill everything mood. Thanks for that! ;-)
Thanks for your comment. Was so long ago can't remember when /where I said that. Could you point it out? I know @ 2:55 I said _"Those who toggle between the two modes and use both are the ones to be feared the most in combat."_ The issues being and why I said that, the toggling of flight assist when you're travelling at high speed applies an artificial amount of "brake" which slows the craft to a stop so much quicker than you could ever achieve with no flight assists (so when you un-toggle [just _before_ you've stopped, because it happens very quickly] you've slowed much faster into a velocity zone best for further manoeuvring - i.e: the blue zone - where you can then toggle back to no assists again. Learning to switch it on and off provides a method of flying unlike any other.)
@@LOOKINVERTED Wow, was not expeting an answer! I see your point, but in my opinion those who switch are those who can't fly FA-OFF permanently, i.e. those who need to toggle to get back on their feet once they lose conrol of the ship. Anyway, even after all this time that is by far the best video about FA-OFF that I've seen 👍
@@FlecheDeFer Thanks for the compliments, much appreciated since these guides took a lot of effort. You sound like you're well versed in the art of fa off. There certainly are those too that are, as you say using it in an attempt to bring things back under control - when you're an fa off beginner it does feel like you're flying by the seat of your pants, but learning to use assists whether sparingly does add this extra abrupt slowing tool where it's just not possible without (like I say since there's this artificial braking coded into the mechanics - it's a bit weird you can't replicate it on your own suggesting there's something a bit funky going on). All being said, flying with no assists is far more rewarding and enjoyable, perhaps using assists at all could ultimately hinder your skills and experience, can't argue there. Thanks again.
![Elite: Dangerous - Learning [to pilot with] Flight Assist Off (Part 2)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/69R_4ufsNYU/mqdefault.jpg)
![Elite: Dangerous - Learning [to pilot with] Flight Assist Off (Part 2)](/img/tr.png)
This is easily the best introduction to FA off on UA-cam. You have a talent for teaching.
Ah. That explains why flying felt like on rails. I already thought the devs of Elite Dangerous had forgotten about Newton. Thank you good Sir.
+Mp57navy
Haha, yeah feels totally different otherwise. You're welcome, and thank you too for your comments!
Accidentally hit flight assist off once after setting it to toggle, couldn't remember how to turn it back on and had to crash course myself on the spot to land in the star port in time. It was wild, awesome and headache inducing
Haha, that was pretty much what made me want to learn it myself. I'd heard of the assist computer and decided to turn it off one time inside a station and naturally all hell broke loose - but from that point on was intrigued and subsequently hooked, couldn't go back after that (but found a suitable less-expensive area to learn the ropes).
awesome guide, despite playing ED since premium beta, never looked at FA off. now with CQC it seems to be essential.Your guide is brilliant, both the theory and practice. Thanks
+Richard Cotton
You are most welcome, and thanks for your compliments, let me know how you get on yeah :)
excellent video, especially beneficial were the diagrams showing where you were producing thrust during the maneuver! Thanks for the info.
You're welcome mike, glad to be of help, more useful manouevres and how to achieve them will be covered in the next upload, had to get the basics out the way first.
"I want to fly like Starbuck, not Luke!" I've been quietly thinking this a lot lately and have been using the thrusters a lot to try and compensate. It seems I just needed to take one more step and turn off FA. But after watching your videos I realize it might be a bit trickier than that. I'm glad I ran across these at work. Now I have a goal tonight. Thanks man! Subbed!
+Michael Mattson
_"I want to fly like Starbuck, not Luke!"_ - well said and is so very apt! Granted to learn fa off does take a bit of commitment but it really is so worth it, you won't regret learning the fundamentals, the game is felt in a completely different light as a consequence. Good luck and thanks for commenting/subbing Michael :)
Excellent explanations on the mystic art of flight assist off, looking forward to learning more next time, thanks.
Thanks mate, more useful manouevres explained in the next guide, had to get the basics out the way first so I could never be accused of not being thorough :).
Awesome introduction to FA-Off; I'd benefit from a view of your Control Options -- I'd like to map to your recommended settings and start getting used to them. (I use an X-Box controller on the PC.)
Great video!
Useful guide, thank you for putting it on! Will go through it more times to like it sink in.
makes sense!! One more point is that mouse-keyboard users may feel a bit harder to get used to FA off piloting, because any unnecessary yaw or pitch done by mouse will cause some unwanted vector momentums than bring trouble, but the joystick is gonna return to center automatically, unlike the non-centralized mouse.
+chengmin li
Yeah good point. I haven't used mouse and keyboard much but the "relative mouse" option does at least simulate the mouse as if it were centering after each input to make it feel and behave as much like a joystick as possible. Frontier have made great effort to make the game playable with k&m, one gets power and sensitivity curves too, something the hotas user doesn't get.
Still finding this useful. Love your vibe as well. Hope you're doing ok, faoff has made the game so much more enjoyable for me. Thank you fella
This is a really great guide. I have only been doing just the most basic FA off maneuvers before because I didn't quite understand how it works with forward and back thrust using my throttle on default setup. This is just what I need to get started practicing with FA off.
You're welcomeDSheehy , glad to be of help, setting the throttle range to full range is certainly the first and most important change that makes learning to pilot with no assists feel much more natural and similar in behaviour with our current existing habits. Good luck!
I have been interested in this game for a while and i found this tutorial very educational.
Great guide, defo required now with recent updates.
Thanks jason, good luck!
PERFECT tuturial, I remember I saw it long time ago, I'm allready subscribe to your channel, whatching it again after playing the game help to learn more and more, thank's !
+Christopher Dijoux
Nice one Christopher and thanks again. I've certainly gone back to older videos on other channels that are of benefit no matter how long they've been on, again I'm glad to hear you may find this useful. Good luck :)
Excellent tutorial. I will be learning these techniques to become better at combat. Thank you
Joseph Allen
You are most welcome Joseph, thanks for commenting, glad to hear you found some tactics useful. Your name sounds very familiar (VEY... perhaps?), but again may be I'm mistaking you for someone else, perhaps I'll guess correctly one day and match youtubers with their E:D handle. _(if you aren't who I think you are you are probably thinking "what the hell!", in which case never mind and apologies for batting your head in)_ :)
LOOK INVERTED You are correct! Vey*** is indeed my handle. I bought myself a sidewinder with the intention of mastering FA Off combat flight
Joseph Allen
Arha, guessed right for once in my life, like I say, it's hard to remember who is who half the time.
The l'il Sidewinder is quite frankly the ideal craft to learn in, I was tempted to use one throughout these guides but in the end used an array of craft altogether to help with the variances.
If you can master flight with no assists in the Sidewinder with its very agile and quick orientation/rotation in the first place, then when moving on to the more heavier craft, even a Viper or Cobra the next step up, what you've learnt in the Sidey will feel in slow motion compared in the larger crafts so will be an effective way of learning for sure.
If you can master the Sidewinder/Eagle you'll find the heavier crafts considerably easier. Good luck Joseph, don't hesitate to ask me anything further, I'm here to help if you need it.
The accent/dialect switching is known as diglossia - it's very common - the processes leading to it are similar to bilingualism with heritage languages such as Hindi and Gujurati in the UK, except when it occurs within one language (in our case, English), it causes people's heads to explode.
I was born in Scotland, but grew up in London. I learned very quickly when I started school that you use the London accent there. My parents made sure I kept my Scottish accent though. I used to switch mid-conversation depending on who I was talking to (i.e. if my mates came round and my mum poked her head round the door to talk to me). It's a _great way to play with people's heads_.
Nice, clear guide, btw. I always think I should make E:D vids, but I can never find something different to say.
*edit*
Re: the setting of thrust axes on the x52 Pro throttle; that's exactly what I use.
+the100thmonkey
Hahaha, absolutely, thought it might have been an affliction of my own, but for sure, depending on who I'm talking to my accent changes, and yes again my own parents weren't particularly impressed the more it started to change, so to them I still speak southern (that said sometimes I by accident revert to my northern accent in front of them and they're saying "pardon, what did you say?". They have difficulty with the northern accent anyway and even still after 20 years, a proper geordie may as well be a foreigner ;)
Very good, your post gave my quite the chuckle, thanks for that :) :)
Very informative video indeed. I have experimented with this a little whilst playing on the xbox one. It is a pain to swap between FA (ON) and FA (OFF) in quick time i find on the control but it does give some serious advantages especially against more nimble craft.
+HAPPYK
I haven't played the xbox one version although before I bought my hotas I did use a gamepad exclusively. That said even now I still use a gamepad in my left hand for throttle/thrusters (and a x55 hotas' joystick in my right hand), but when doing these guides I mapped flight assist toggle to the gamepad's left stick - thumb/click button [L3?]. Not entirely sure what you're using this for currently but perhaps something that could be mapped elsewhere if you don't need it to hand all the time? Even used just briefly fa off toggle can get you turning considerably quicker than the pilot who doesn't ever use it. None the less, thanks for your compliments :)
You are indeed very welcome sir, Yet again that has given me something further to investigate with regard to the xbox versions control setups. I'll need to play around with it some more I think.
Excellent video and I have watched 6 on FA off today. Thanks!
Excellent. I think I now see vector in space dust.Or I've had too many beers. Great videos 1 & 2. I really want to FA off but it really is a different mindset. Practising as I approach docking.
I know how much work will have gone into these videos, so much appreciated.
Hi John, I do agree piloting with no assists is a different mindset, but I don't necessarily think it is a harder one, but even if it is, not much harder, and not as hard as one thinks. Keep in mind there aren't that many manoeuvres to really learn anyway, especially if you always roll so your target flies over your head, in which case you're using pitch up to follow, in which case you'll primarlily be using vertical thrust UP to slow your ship down. It really is that simple at first, and all other manoeuvres mainly evolve from this first one, hense the vertical falling exercise in part 2 to learn first and foremost.
Thanks for your comments and appreciation :)
STILL the go-to guide for FA:Off I show all my friends and allies
What an excellent video! I'm a little nervous to start trying all these techniques, but I am especially excited to change the full-range option on my throttle.
hypersapien Thanks for the compliments hypersapien. To be honest changing to the full range throttle axis option will have considerable benefit even with flight assist on. I believe when one shuts the throttle with the conventional 'forward only' option you aren't actually getting the full - full reverse anyway when "just shutting the throttle". With this forward only axis mapping you will be getting more of a controlled slower deceleration as opposed to applying full reverse (with this forward only map means pressing a button with full forwards to get the full reverse as I'm sure you know).
So whether you want to try and learn some of these further fa off techniques in more detail (part 2 incidently starts the learning process and procedures completely from scratch if you've had little experience piloting with no flight assistance), but yes with the 'full range' axis mapping even when piloting with flight assist on, you will be able to slow your ship faster than simply just shutting the throttle, so _with_ this full range axis you'll naturally input all the full reverse thrust available when pulling back on your hotas throttle, like I say without having to press a button with full forwards thrust which on the whole is quite a weird technique to get used to anyway which ever way you look at it. Each to their own of course but it didn't feel intuitive to use myself, who applies break and throttle at the same time to slow your car down in the real world? Good luck, glad to be of help!
LOOK INVERTED Cool, thanks =) I've had a few mishaps using the default scheme. In a dogfight I'll switch between forward and reverse so many times, that sometimes I forget I have it set to reverse until I back into an asteroid.
Very thorough and explained, liked for sure and subscribed. I love visiting the technical physics of Elite and this was a breath of fresh air!
Awesome tutorial, it helps a lot, i just go the game and my joy stick and throttle will come in tomorrow can't wait to try it out.
David Lugenbeel
Thanks David, if you are a sci-fi fan, in to anything science, the universe, and combat related, you are in for a treat in Elite. To learn to pilot with no flight assists (flight assist basically aids your control if you weren't entirely sure what this was all about), so _without_ these aids flying a craft that conforms to newtonian physics in a vacuum the game is felt in a completely different light and is also a fundamentally different way of piloting, as space flight should be/is. But.. either if you use flight assist on the whole and then flight assist off in certain circumstances you are going to have a great time. I am officially addicted myself! Part 2 FA Off guide is on my channel now if you are interested, part 3 is nearly finished and should be up soon. Thanks again for your comments David :)
P.S: What joystick/hotas have you bought if you don't mind me asking?
Awesome thanks, I'll definitely check them out when I get home, I puchased the x52
David Lugenbeel
In my pursuit of being even more nosey, the x52 standard or the Pro? :)
standard :)
David Lugenbeel
Good stick, exactly what I had before my x55, only reason I replaced it was it was old and had gone unresponsive so upgraded at the opportunity. Nice one David, have fun!
I've been flying combat with assist off mostly on instinct, since I first booted the game. Never really put that much thought into it. I'll switch it on for certain things like docking, or fast alignment for escaping an unwinnable scenario, and now planetary flight as well, but when I'm in a warzone, be it PVP or PVE, I'll mostly have it off, especially when I'm in Eagles PVP'ing against guys in Vipers, Cobras and Vultures and the like. Keeping my target profile against them low while either pointed at them, or away from them if running, is absolutely vital, which is where unhindered vertical and lateral thrusting comes in handy.
+Remiel Pollard
That's ideal actually that you started the game and went straight-long head in with the unassisted flight, many of the learning difficulties are with the very fact one has to "unlearn" the muscle memory most get with sustained assist on flight over a period. You've done it the right way for sure, I bet you _can_ hold your own as a consequence. Thanks for stopping by to comment, good luck with the progress (if I'm honest I'm still learning new tricks even now myself)
I had flight assist off the whole time and didn't notice until after watching your video. Told vasco to turn FA off. Ship computer told me it turned it on! LOL I learned the hard way I guess.
Just finished the first part of 'Flight Assist' and gave it a go in one of the Training lessons in ED, AND what a boom. so will have to go over it again then onto Part 2 & 3.
Thanks
Geoff Holroyd-Doveton
Glad to hear you are making progress Geoff. Most are perhaps a little scared to even try, but for sure if you put the time in and are also perhaps guided in the rough direction for the best approach in learning it, it isn't quite as hard as first thought, which was the main reason for me creating this series, to make it more likely to click more quickly and without wasting time. Thanks for your comments Geoff, it really helps when viewers read comments & replies like yours for anyone else wanting to learn, seeing others' progress that it *_is_* possible! Cheers to you too :)
I see there is some discussion on the use of vector :) I'd use velocity in this context, or velocity vector.
+Toby Jones
Agreed, you'll get no argument from me ;)
I need to start practicing with FA off a bit more. I just left everything default, but I am starting to get to an experience level that I feel like I am sometimes fighting against the computer when trying to get my ship to move the way I want it too. Clear indication that I need to learn FA off.
Jesse Sisolack
It does take a bit of time and investment, but it really is highly addictive _and_ even if you only ever use the no flight assist mode for certain circumstances "in the end" you won't regret what you've learnt in the process. Good luck :)
Very well explained and demonstrated. Thank you very much!
Okay. I’ve watched this series several times and I just caught that applying additional thruster inputs when making a turn in FAON is slower than making the turn without adding thruster inputs. Makes sense but also makes me wonder about what I’ve been doing all this time!
Hey Cmdr Lancer. So glad you are doing these videos. Fantastic guide!
Hey mate. More useful practical exercises will be in the next part 2 for us to practice, had to get the basics down and out the way first. Thanks chilltime
LOOK INVERTED Been busy for the past week and haven't been able to get on ED. I was getting the hang of aiming FAO. But, after not being able to play for a week, I'm all over the place again when trying to aim.
Can't wait to see the second video.
chilltime99
Hi mate, how you keeping? Me too actually, haven't had much time to play at all, and the only time I have had, I've been working on this Part 2 guide. There will be 'many' lessons to cover all aspects, including aiming, so perhaps they might help.
To give you a sneak preview, I've tried to split up each lesson for a specific task, some are more fun than others ;), and then at the end we'll bring them all together. One issue it's nearly an hour long! Main issue is having to cover both types of controls, being analogue or digital, so had to cover backup methods for those who haven't analogue controls. Perhaps it will encourage and make players realise the hindrance digital controls really are to space flight and that the average hotas is simply not designed for newtonian space flight or forced fluidic assisted flight for that matter. Making this guide really has cemented my feelings and I would never go back to my hotas throttle over my gamepad even if I could.
In the mean time, the aiming issue can be helped with this anchoring of one's arm as we discussed, but still it's mainly all about trying to stay relaxed in the heat of the moment when you're under pressure. The more you practice the better it becomes, but still ideally one should toggle assist back on for these finer aiming moments, whilst trying to continue the ship's behaviour as seamlessly as possible with ship thrusters, which is also covered in this part 2 guide.
Shouldn't be too long, done most of it, but I'm sure everyone will find this part 2 much more useful, I simply had to get the basics out the way first in part 1. Good to hear from you :)
Great video. That made things a lot clearer for me!
GamingwithIan No probs mate, glad you found it useful, and thanks for the endorsement :)
Great video, the flying at 2:20 , you made that look easy haha.
Ar ha indeed, the saviour who uploaded the file for me because my upload was interupted during the night and my own internet is that shite it would have taken all night again. For anyone else reading this, thanks should fall to this man here R3C0N1X so I could have this uploaded today, a faithful subscriber who fortunately lives very close to me, and offered to help me out.. Check out his channel for some gaming exploits :) ua-cam.com/users/R3C0N1X
LOOK INVERTED Thanks, always happy to help, great to see you in the flesh too =) Next it'll be, I'll trade you an upload for some secret tips in Elite: Dangerous that no one knows, then again you share all your information anyway so it'll be a case of, Well.. have you checked this video out.
You know while the video was uploading me and Marc were sat watching it like little school kids all excited going o0o0o... ahhh... didn't know that haha.
Brilliant tut mate, I loved that little animation! That's one thing I haven't looked into yet is how to animate text and stuff in Premiere. You've clearly got it down in PD though! Well done!
Great tutorial, very well explained and easy to follow. Looking forward to the next one!
One note though, when you're doing your loop de loop example, you didn't have the throttle of the Assist On version in the blue section of the throttle metre. That blue spot represents the optimal speed to achieve the fastest turn rate possible. Additionally, if you add up thrust when pulling a loop in the blue section, you will turn slightly quicker. Well that's been my observation anyway. Also, if you're flying backwards and pulling a loop, applying down thrust should keep you turning faster. This is useful when trying to stay inside the turning circle of smaller ships. Even an eagle will have trouble staying inside a Sidewinder's turning circle unless that eagle is travelling backwards and moving down staying close to the sidewinder's bum and well below the its nose.
Ar ha, I can see there's no fooling you, not that I'm trying to fool anyone. You are totally right of course, the centre of the blue zone is the best speed to travel at for the quickest pitch (loop the loop), but basically I needed to match the speeds so it was a fair test/demonstration. Having one pip to engines is about the ideal max speed so when applying full vertical and forward thrust, when flying with assist Off, one can achieve the easiest and most consistant turn. If I'd done both in the blue zone I would have had to hold smaller consistant amounts of each thruster which for an accurate comparison test is quite hard to do (particularly on a gamepad ;) ). Perhaps I should have mentioned this, I'll add something about it for next guide. You also mention applying thruster inputs mid orientation to vary the speed of the turn, indeed, you are correct as well, more of this will be covered in the toggle guide, but I appreciate someone bringing this up.
I wouldn't necessarily give me the congrats to me about the animation in this, if you realised what it took, you wouldn't believe the hassle just that piece caused me, I'm not entirely sure if this sort of thing is possible in PD, perhaps something like After Effects is needed (I'm not sure), but basically I made that segment 'frame by frame' in Photoshop, moving each little layer bit by bit and then importing sequential pictures into PD ;) Took me a whole day! Couldn't figure out any other way to do it at present, like oldschool animation!!
LOOK INVERTED
Yeah I knew there would be a good reason you didn't mention it, and a fair reason it was too!
Yes old school animation indeed! It all looked very professional anyway :) You could use flash as well, or After Effects as you mention - if you have those of course. I have neither myself. I have seen Erimus One using "typewriting" style captions. I'm sure he could tell me how to do it if I asked.
PIK
I haven't neither either. I just heard something about After Effects because a friend had used it to make a 'sliding on/off' message himself with very particular pictures that were clearly made by himself, similar to Erimus text yeah on his exploring adventure vids.
Sure if you've a good rapport with him and are willing to ask him I'd be very grateful, indeed. I have had some correspondance with him, but mainly just congratulating him on his products. Thanks mate appreciated :):)
I'm going to have to study this and practice a lot.
+candiduscorvus
Good luck, and thanks for your comment, practice is the key more than most :)
+Look Inverted I'm already a pretty capable dogfighter but it's all with flight assist on. It seems obvious to me that if I trained myself to fly with it off I could be so much better. You've shown me a larger world, Obi-Wan. :)
candiduscorvus
Hahaha, sounds like you know how to look after yourself already my Padawan friend. You're too kind, but quite honestly it's really not that hard once it clicks, just a different way of piloting, let me know how you get on :)
The long, hard road to FA Off mastery begins here.... Might be a rather long term goal.
+Gerben O
Agreed, you do have to set yourself a challenge and it does take a bit of time, but it is sooo worth it, it's an extremely rewarding experience once it all clicks in to place. Good luck and thanks for your comment Gerben!
Nice guide sir, its great that you've got 2 accents. I had a mate that was born in Lincoln, but moved to Essex in his early teens. He sounded Essex the majority of the time but the more angry he got, the more Lincoln he got haha!!! He ended up moving back and has completely returned to his original accent!!!
Do you still play Elite??? Its just theres a lot of changes coming over 2018, i think you'll be impressed!!! Thanks again for the guide mate!!!
If E:D is modeling Newtonian physics, two questions: 1) With assist off, when I hit boost, why does the ship speed up and then slow down? What's causing it to slow down, assuming I'm flying in deep space. There should be no outside force acting n the ship to slow it down, yet it does. 2) Building on number 1, why do the ships have a "maximum speed" - hitting boost several times (assuming enough capacitor) should propel you faster and faster? Again, without an outside force present, nothing should be limiting the speed...?
Gordon McLellan Agreed, Elite conforms to Newtonian phycics for the most part apart from these occassions. The first you mention, Frontier decided to implement speed bleed offs for all directions, more speed bleeds off for lateral/vertical and even more severely for reverse momentum (facing 180 deg to current vector) basically to stop the 'turrets in space' phenomenon, this basically gave the assist off pilot a huge advantage over tha assist on pilot before these "bleed offs" were introduced.
And finally the reason for a top speed was because of the way the game is played/coded, having normal space (normal space speeds) and then the launch into Super Cruise for faster than light travel. With the way Elite Dangerous is designed (P2P client server) they had to create seperate instances so the two modes could be seamlessly jumped between (well almost seamless). A forever increasing speed would have no transition to a separate instance for faster than light travel (super cruise).
Thank you for the detailed answers!
Gordon McLellan
Glad to be of help :)
I have been trying this a little with my PS4 controller (i think its better than mouse and keyboard. Have to use some shift buttons, but once i found a good mapping, it was easy to remember, and the controller feels really nice to use), and find it really difficult to do small enough adjustments with that small "joystick". Not sure if i just need to practice more, but i suspect a real joystick would be better for this task. I REALLY like this game (115 hours in the last 2 weeks), so im definitely gonna have to buy a real joystick in a couple of weeks! Probably going for a dual joystick setup :P
This brings back traumatising memories of trying to pvp on Freelancer with engine kill. No matter hoiw many hours I put into it I just couldn't compete with the more competent players.
Sweet. The visual diagram at the end showing the turning radius really made it click for me. For verticle thrust do you use buttons on your saitek or do you use the 360 controller? From what I recall, up on the 360 controller gives you forward thrust momentum, yes? I use the full saitek x55 set up.
+Ross Fox
I also use the x55 Rhino but only the joystick (more detailed reasons why on my discussion page) but instead of the throttle I use a gamepad for all ship thrusters. I prefer it anyway due to most hotas throttles having no analogue hats/povs on them, they're always digital. Still, even with a hotas throttle, and with the very fact when piloting with fa off most counters required are full thruster inputs anyway (simply held for a certain period/duration) then digital controls won't be such a disadvantage. If anything analogue thruster control is more imperative when piloting with flight assist On to regulate ship translation speeds/velocities.
As described in this vid, I actually use the left stick on the gamepad for forwards/backwards and lateral thrust, then add vertical thrust on the Left trigger (still analogue) and bumper (this is the only digital mapping I have but it is mapped to thrust down which on the whole is the least used thruster of all of them, [if performing the roll until your target either flies over your head or tracks up the screen, a technique explained in more detail in part 2]).
I learnt to fly FA off with the old FA I did not enjoy the change and gave up.
I still use it in combat and I use thrusters all the time.
MrLunithy You are one of the lucky ones. I too learnt when it was much easier in early beta before the dust was scaled back, it certainly _is_ harder now simply because of this vector hud aid being harder to see but at least it's still there I suppose. :)
Look Inverted Never really used it (Because I could never get the hang of it!), except for sliding to get extra speed, and then I noticed that it seemed to be made more manageable in the later builds.
vidstarr Yeah that is a note to mention that is actually an easier element now, thanks vidstarr. The velocity "speed thresholds" when not facing your current vector (travelling vertically/laterally), we didn't have these in early beta so was harder in this regard, much more speed to scrub off meaning having to hold thruster counters for a much longer period!
I've tried flight assist off, but I just can't seem to get it but that's most likely because I use a gamepad as I instinctually understand how to do it. I flew with engines off in FFE but I had a joystick then; and it was pure joy. Docking with space stations was no problem whatsoever. I just can't seem to turn that instinct into reality with the controller I use. I'll be ordering a HOTAS flight system before too much longer. I expect that will make it much easier and am waiting rather impatiently for the next two paychecks.
Kelly Rayburn Hi Kelly, I did try and use a gamepad on its own as a complete controller myself when I first tried this game back in Alpha and had difficulty initially even with flight assist on, but for sure with no flight assistance damping the rotation it is extremely hard to input the slightest controls with just a gamepad's thumbstick, which is what is needed to pilot with no assistance, the counters needed - the smaller the better. You can't go wrong with a hotas, you won't regret the investment and which have you gone for? (interesting to hear the varied choices people make and I'm nosey)
I'm thinking about a Thrustmaster T-Flight Hotas X. I'd like an X55 but it's just a bit too expensive for me (right now). I'm going to save up for it, but right now, the price of the T-Flight is looking really good. Seen a lot of good reviews on it.
But I have no problem controlling the ship with flight assist on using the game pad. Just seems kind of limiting. I fly a T-7 without shields and can dock without scraping. No way could I do that with assist off with the pad.
Kelly Rayburn
hahaha, you mentioning scraping a Type-7 through the letter box brings back so many memories (and perhaps bad dreams), I did that so often I started to wonder if I was doing something wrong. Cockpit positioned at bottom of ship.. check,, landing gear not deployed yet.. check,, back of station in view through the letterbox.. check,, right here goes.. warning, warning, warning, "blocking main access is a crime, don't risk annihilation, make way!" I'm trying, I'm trying (stuck in cattle grid) er oh!
_PS: Yeah I've heard good things about the Thrustmaster T-Flight Hotas X too, good value stick._ :)
_Edit: any joystick that has three axes will be such an improvement over the gamepad (that was your main issue - couldn't yaw and roll), but the Thrustmaster does have the yaw twist so you'll be fine with that_
Look Inverted The T-flight Hotas has 5 axes. I'm figuring I'll use the hat up and down for vertical thrust (at least temporarily until I can find a better solution). Joy up/down (pitch), Joy left/right (roll) Joy twist (yaw) Throttle for speed control (of course) and the horizontal axes on the throttle for lateral. Only axis that leaves is vertical. Maybe I can find a good set of pedals for that as I would like to have more control than the hat will give me.
And yeah, docking a T-7 without scraping does take some practice, but it's become second nature to me now.
Kelly Rayburn
5 axes? don't you mean 4?, I left the throttle axis by the wayside, unless you are counting the little fore and middle finger analogue buttons as an axis, which I suppose it is really so five yeah. I would expect the digital buttons on the throttle itself under your thumb would be the most obvious for your vertical thrust yes/no? Leaves all translation in one hand (left) and perhaps the pov on the joystick for power distribution (you are going to need this pwr dist regularly). Each to their own of course, pedals are a good addition I can imagine if you use them for something, perhaps as a throttle and brake if you are a car driver, might feel natural and then the main throttle axis and the analogue left/right buttons on the throttle for vertical & lateral respectively. Vertical thrust on the pedals, would that just not be too weird being a horizontal axis so to speak?? What ever works I suppose, good luck Kelly and which ever way you configure it all you won't regret your hotas purchase :)
Great video and I really struggle to pick up FA-OFF such that after a few seconds of tank-slapping I turn it off. Do you use more deadzone on the pitch/roll axes? I just can't seem to add small enough inputs to correct changes...hence the tank-slapping frustration! I have a HOTAS-X (which I think Isinona uses?). Right, better watch the next part!
Big respect to you FA-OFF pilots.
James Moss
Hi James, thanks for you comments. The "tank slapping" (good description, you must be a biker), does improve over time the more you practice, and remember to anchor your elbow. To be honest something that I didn't really say in this part 1 but it is covered early on in part 2 that should hopefully help... think of applying each counter axis as a 'durated stop' (if that makes sense). Practice stopping the rotation by holding the relevant counter for just the right amount of time. It's not necessarily about how much of an axis you apply, it's for how long you apply it. Of course the smaller the axis amount you apply the better, but generally most if not all inputs (including thruster counters) are all about how *long* you hold each of them. Good luck! :) _(edit: about the dead zones you mention, definitely not, dead zones are best avoided at all times for the most part, only use these if your rotation is tracking on its own when your hand isn't on the stick, check with fa on)_
i'v just watched your video, great work....i set up my xbox controller up but what do you use for yaw or roll....i have my left controller for thrust forward and back and thursting left to right.....my right controller is for pitch and yaw but how do i roll then....
Just getting back into ED and finding these videos really helpful. Late to the party here, but wondering if there's a good way to translate these flight controls to a PS4 DualShock controller. Any recommended way to achieve yaw without a joystick that I can twist? Or could I get by without yaw in most cases?
Yeah, sadly the common gamepad controller doesn't come with enough axis, only option really is to use a switchable toggle where you opt for Yaw or Roll at any given time (trying to fly without all three main axis will be very limiting, especially with fixed hardpoints - be impossible to aim precisely). Frontier was at least aware of this issue for those who haven't a hotas by incorporating a toggle in options/settings.
Best I can advise, if there's anything else I can help you with let me know, appreciate your compliments.
_edit: Just been thinking about it - what about using the bumper buttons (usually rb/lb or r1/l1) for rolling? You're quickly running out of convenient buttons for other things but perhaps using your computer keyboard for extraneous functions?_
Appreciate the reply. Bumpers as roll might be an option worth trying, I'll look into it.
Was testing the "yaw into roll" settings this morning. Tried setting it so that only the slightest of roll input equated to yaw but it felt pretty awkward and seemed like it might be hard to manage consistently.
Of course, the Thrustmaster HOTAS for Playstation may just be the way to go for the right hand. @@LOOKINVERTED
@@noahe.4990 For a casual game buying a hotas is hard to justify but if really investing the time to play properly you won't regret buying a hotas, (add a headlook device whether it be TrackIR or ED tracker) and the complete experience is convincingly immersive - highly recommended (and suddenly the costs start to spiral 🙂 ) Good luck!
this is a very old video, but it has to be said. in a video talking about controls and explaining how user input affects flying, it is very hard to follow if we *can't see your inputs*
Is there any possible way one could take advantage of all the Newtonian physics and inertia of flight assist off along with the rotation counters and all that WITHOUT giving up solid pitch and yaw control? That would be great be cause FA OFF turning is a nightmare without a controller or joystick
:P Hi :P, unfortunately not, ship rotation can not be separated from intertia/ship translation, they both come as a package. I understand why you are asking, getting used to countering this rotation with out the aid of the computer damping is perhaps the hardest part of learning to fly with no assistance but it is at least manageable with a conventional hotas joystick. I'm presuming you are using mouse for ship rotation, a bit of an obvious question but have you tried adjusting the power and sensitivity curves? I know it can be a costly peripheral but if you intend to play Elite often and intend to get in to the game, you can't go wrong in purchasing a proper hotas, or at the very least just a joystick and use a gamepad for ship translation/thrusters like I do myself. Probably not the answer you wanted or perhaps were expecting but don't hesitate to ask me anything further.
thanks for the response. I AM using a mouse. PC master race controls have their perks and their downfalls it seems
Could you please list the input devices you're using to achieve your flight model. ie. are you using just a Xbox controller with an IR tracker ? Plus what are the devices assigned to control.
As a great man once said " To build anything from character to great cities and machines of immense complexity, one needs to know what tools are required. "
+GravyB0nes
Forgive me Gravy, you aren't the first to ask me, I wasn't very clear at all for my personal setup.
I basically use an xbox controller in my left hand instead of a hotas' hands on throttle (left stick used obv for forwards/backwards and lateral thrust and the Left Trigger for Vertical Up thrust & Left Bumper for vertical down [thrust down being the only digital input as it's the most rarely used thruster of all of them]). Right hand is standard default hotas joystick [x55 Rhino] with pitch, roll & yaw in each of their usual respective axes (yaw twist).
I also use a headtracker called TrackIR (v5) for head movement.
As is said... a good workman never blames his tools... what a crock of s.../
Hope this helps, let me know if you require anything further :)
+Look Inverted Hello, I've watched all your videos and I seem to need a tip here. I dont have a joystick and use only an xbox gamepad. What seems to be the problem is not having a yaw control, and turning on "yaw on initial roll" without a way to properly and manually counteract it is near impossible to manage. Of course using yaw on initial roll I should be able to cancel the yaw with a similar counter input; however I'm sure you see the problem here in that this is not ideal.
I've tried with all yaw on roll settings and none of them seem to provide the control i need. Any tips?
I have also tried with yaw/roll button mode and as I must constantly switch between the two in order to counter any yaw/roll the workload becomes a bit overbearing. Am I being too picky? Or should I just get a joystick.
+Terrato If only we we're able to customize the settings of FA (perhaps auto correcting yaw/roll/pitch/etc) If i were allowed to do this I think I could achieve a manageable setup on controller.
Terrato
Ok, as much as a gamepad on its own is not ideal (as you're finding out using the yaw on roll option which is a bit crap if I'm honest, it gets you going but it's not really suitable for a flight sim with 6DOF), I therefore would recommend a proper joystick with a yaw twist at the very least.
However, in the mean-time you could try bounding one of the axes that you're down/missing to the triggers on the gamepad. Perhaps using these triggers for Roll which would give you all rotation control surfaces. This of course leaves an issue with where to bound what would normally be bound to those Triggers, I expect Fire and Secondary perhaps.
One question, you've presumably got vertical/lateral thrust on the left stick yess, so where have you got forwards/backwards thrust? Finding a "pair" of suitable buttons for this forwards/backwards thrust is going to be an issue in itself, let alone where to bound your fire buttons, but perhaps you could use the "lb" and "rb" for fire buttons (and or triggers if you switch roll to these lb and rb buttons, then use right & left joystick click buttons for forwards/backwards thrust respectively (meaning you have access to ALL control surfaces with your thumbs on each stick and your forefingers hovering over each of the triggers/bumpers.
This is pretty odd to all intents and purposes but as I can see, there's not much option to configure all surfaces at one time any other way.
This leads me back to really needing a hotas (or at the least a joystick and then your gamepad in your left hand, similar to what I do myself).
Sorry I can't help much further, what I do know is Frontier seamingly wrestled with this very dilemma when configuring the default set up for xbox version, their "workaround" was having a switchable flight mode that included an alternate configuration for some control surfaces, then switching to a separate mode to obtain the others. (I'm not sure if this option is available in the pc options, though I haven't looked to be honest).
I hope _some_ of this is helpful :)
Look Inverted more than willing to give it a try. Thanks for answering my question so quickly! I'll get back to you to see how it works, though it may take some time to adjust, ill have to give it a good solid couple days to see of its something i can manage.
haha at 13:20 when you say docking will probably be harder, I think docking is easier with FA off and I can fly around fine, its just when im in combat I cant do any hard turns at all while keeping my ship facing the direction its actually moving. I can do slow turns but I find that my vertical thrusters cant provide enough thrust fast enough. That could just be a problem with the ship im flying since I have only tried combat in the tutorials and not with my upgraded eagle yet
tillter321
Hey tillter, yeah I agree, docking is not hard at all with flight assist off, like you say, if anything it's easier, just with this being a "basics covered first" - Part 1, didn't want to scare anyone off. I am currently working on, literally right now Part 2 with exercises for more useful manouvres and lessons to help players get to grips with flight assist off and toggling between the two modes, should be up sometime hopefully at the weekend, if not early next week which I'm sure pilots will find a great deal more useful.
The issue you describe is perhaps because you are travelling at a higher velocity when trying to pitch up with thrust up to re-align your vector quickly, but probably not this.
If not I expect the main reason is because if you aren't travelling at an exact straight downwards vector, so slightly travelling laterally as well, one needs to apply these lateral thruster inputs as well (as small as they are), along with your thrust up, so in essence the thrust is split up exactly in the correct amounts for each. This is one thing the assist computer does effortlessly is appling all correct amounts of thruster inputs. Main suggestion, is to make sure the space dust is travelling pretty much exactly vertically up your field of view so the only thruster the ship assist on computer would only need would be to add thrust up, so to replicate this, the best way is to simulate what the computer would do in the same circumstance, with just thrust up needed for the quickest vector change.
As far as thruster upgrades etc, I believe upgraded thruster modules give you a higher top speed, but crucially the higher rated thruster upgrades have higher optimum masses, check in your Eagle you haven't exceeded this optimum mass which might explain if the ship feels heavier than normal. Either fit lighter components or a higher rated thruster upgrade to cope with the extra weight because it has a higher optimum mass. Not exceeding this optimum mass is critical in getting the best manouverability out of every craft. I expect you do know all this, so forgive me for stating the obvious if you do. Perhaps you do already know all this but just checking. Thanks tillter for your comments :)
LOOK INVERTED yea I did already know all the mass stuff, and my eagle is fitted to have a lower mass than the thrusters optimal mass so that shouldnt be a problem. il try paying extra attention to the space dust next time I try.
A bit off topic, but do you know how to change the X55 throttle hats to be 4way instead of 8? I tried changing it in the saitek software but elite is still picking it up as an 8 way I think because I can still use the diagnal inputs and I very often combine two truster inputs on accident and its driving me nuts!
tillter321
No worries, apologies for stating the obvious. The space dust is critical to watch at all times really, as a novice (ish), one finds this tiresome initially having to make a conscious effort to look directly at its direction, but in the end, one notices it subconsciously and becomes second nature and one relaxes in the end. I don't really have to think about it now, my subconscious does it for me without me noticing.
As far as switching the POVs/HATs to 4 way as opposed to 8, I'm not sure, I've never had an issue with this myself, but will investigate it for you, like you say, there must be a way to turn off these diagonal inputs, I'll have to get back to you about this soon. Give me a day, and I'll have some info for you that might help :)
One thing, would be to map some things of little importance, not quite sure what thinking off hand, but if you mapped inputs to these diagonal POV directions, it wouldn't combine the two adjacent POV controls as standard. You'll need to find functions that don't have a place or don't work whilst in normal space, not sure if there are enough other inputs (4 in total I suppose) to fill the whole lot that aren't any use whilst in normal space.
Still in the mean time, I'll do a bit of research :)
LOOK INVERTED Thanks, il keep looking too and il let you know if I find anything, but in the mean time I did some experimenting and bound all my thrusts back to my keyboard instead of the x55 throttle and what really surprised me was that I could do those turn much easier with almost no problems. Now I just need to find a way to make it that easy on the x55 throttle!
Thanks for the help again, and the tip in your video about knowing what thrusters to use to align the ship with its vector was really useful, I never thought of it like that!
tillter321 One thing I should say, thinking about it, there are many an occasion when two thrusters vertical and lateral combined are required for an angled trajectory strafe, if you didn't have this ability, it would restrict your thruster momentum, with only 4 ways and never a combination of two of them. If you want my honest opinion, I really think you should try and stick with the 8 way pov, so you could after a bit of practice apply just one thruster for a simple strafe, or a combo of two to strafe at an angle. something to consider, it might be driving you nuts at present, but in the long run, once you get used to it, you will be a much better pilot with all directions of strafing possible.
Food for thought for you, but I'll still have a scout about for any info to switch the 8 way off if indeed you decide you'd prefer to stick with just 4. :)
Could you by chance, when you have time, share your hud color codes? I really like it. Great video too!
No probs Kevin, the hud is I've found, the best balance to try and get every original colour to stand out that little bit more other than the glaring normal yellow/orange hud which simply annoyed me. (turning the brightness down obviously effected all colours). Thanks for the compliments!
0.4, 0, 0.10
0.1, 0.8, -0.2
0.1, 0.1, 1
Wow thanks! That's what I thought. Most others are all too much the same colors, yours is a good mix. I'm trying it now 😊
Thanks for this video. I'll have to go over it a couple of times before it really sinks in. I have trouble understanding the relation between pitch and thrust. It's obvious that you apply pitch and thrust in a turn (I do that too) but I don't really understand why.
Come to thing of it..the thruster influences your vector as you turn...hmmm.
Thanks again :)
Yeah you got it yourself. Without the flight assist computer adding these thrusters for you (which is what is happening with Assist On even though you yourself aren't inputing these vertical or lateral thrusters, the computer _is_ so your ship's vector changes in relation to how much turn (pitch/yaw) you've applied), so you have to input these yourself otherwise you'll simply be orientating the ship and not changing its vector.
Part 2 is now available if you're interested with actual practical exercises and suggestions to practice, starting with only one thruster and its opposing, and progressively getting harder as you add additional thrusters depenging on your varied ship orientations. Thanks for your comments :)
Thanks for putting in the time making these videos. I occasionally try manoeuvering with flight assist off without much success. My attitude is all over the place. I think I'll do better when I actually don't think too much. Your FPS mind trick might come in handy. I'll be watching the rest of your videos tonight :)
A brilliant tutorial, I will give this a go..:)
+Evohaler
Good luck, hoping the x55 is serving you well still and the h.u.d. software that comes with it will help with the fa off ship rotation sensitivity :)
One thing you forgot to mention is that FA on or off there is NO difference in turn speeds etc. I can turn as fast as a FA off play, simply by playing with the thrust and afterburner.
+FurIouS19811
I'm pretty sure I did say that exactly at the start of the turn rate comparison with the timers counting down to show them both.
that xbox setup is interesting, will try it to see how it feels, I don't know why but I think it will feel better
Thanks for the vid, will be spending a bit of time learning this mode of flight to see if I can get my head around it. Fairly new to Newtonian flight so might be a little bit of a challenge hehe.
+Jim Cole
Hi Jim and you're welcome. The learning curve is steep but well worth the time put in, even if you only use fa off in spurts in the end. I simply fly with it off exclusively and all the time for the shear joy I get from it, and it is a space game/sim after all. Good luck!
Well, flight assist off is a great way to learn that your hardware doesn't center properly lol. Makes it a bit tougher learning, but will keep at it. Do you know of any software that can recenter a joystick or thrust module?
Jim Cole
Are you referring to the spring effect one gets on a hotas' joystick, the fact that this obviously re-centers itself with the spring effect when you take your hand off the stick and you are wanting this same effect on the throttle?
Presumably not on any conventional hotas setup unless you use a gamepad's thumbstick for throttle (much like I do and have the throttle axis on full range so trailing throttle is at centre axis) or you could always use another joystick in your other hand.
But then again you mention software, so I'm presuming you mean some facility to center the ship's rotation or dampen it so it stops when you centre the joystick, much like you get with assist On but you want Newtonian flight for ship vector momentum only. If so, unfortunately not, one can't separate rotation assist without momentum assistance, they come as a package, however there are software[s] such as "Joystick Curves" where one can set a power curve for ship rotation sensitivity.
+Look Inverted Actually, I was referring to the joystick. I have to hold the stick slightly up and to the left to keep it centered. I know I used to have a program that I could use to recalibrate joysticks and such with but I can't remember what it was called, nor if there is still anything out there that would do it.
Jim Cole
Ar right, Windows itself should be able to do that for you. If you find your joystick's properties (Control Panel/Devices and Printers/Game Controllers) select your joystick's properties and you should then get a notification box with Settings and Test tabs. The Calibration option in here should launch a troubleshooter and recentre your device (and/or set up deadzones for the slight axis that is applying a control surface by accident).
What joystick/hotas are you using incidentally, sometimes one has to calibrate in the joystick's own software again with either this calibration or deadzones? (if the windows' calibration option is blanked out and not clickable)
Hello and greetings good sir, is it possible to utilize and maximize flight assist off Flight with mouse+keyboard combination?
Cheers
+usinkangkong
Yes indeed, here's a guy that does exactly that, he ran a little tutorial whilst running a keyboard script so you could see which keys he's pressing. ua-cam.com/video/JCkoz9dT91A/v-deo.html
Only issue he has - he has to use a conventional joystick for supercruise. I believe it's something to do with the relative mouse mode option that has to be selected when piloting with fa off, but one doesn't need this in supercruise obviously as the flight assist is automatically re-engaged every time but this relative mouse didn't appear to disengage itself. Perhaps Frontier have sorted this now.
Very good to know sir!
Thank you so very much for taking your prompt reply! :D
i assume you cover this in the other vidoes but is it better to just go all in and learn how to use FA on and off or start simple with it off if you have never used it off before and then try it off and on to better your skills? I want to watch more videos and tutorials but i just got the game and i want to play. I could watch videos for weeks on how to become better but if i do, i'll never even play...
Flight assist is so rigid and rough. I should learn to do this.
+Actually Arin
Indeed, that's a good analogy, it certainly does release the mechanics when turned off, highly recommended just for the shear fun of it quite honestly but it does have its advantages in certain situations. Good luck!
Hey Look Inverted, with flight assist, do you think it's better to toggle it when making turns or just always keeping it off?
+TheYeti2124
Aha, that is THE question really, good question! Short answer.. probably those who toggle are the ones to be feared the most.
Long answer...The issue why that is hard to answer is simply because when one flies with fa off all the time one is getting the advantage of the reduced heat generation all the time as well as a consequence. Whether this advantage off-sets the disadvantage of the lack of accurate aiming due to no rotational damping, much like what you get with fa on.. is a very good question. Perhaps in the early stages, and even once you're competent, exclusive fa off probably is a slight disadvantage, however... I intend to keep practicing and keep practicing in the hope one day it serves me well and get the full benefit of the reduced heat generation, so subsequently making it harder for target lock.
+Look Inverted Thanks!
this is what Luke did when obi said " use the force , F the A-on"
+legna20v hahaha, very good :)
Flight assit on can be aquaited to flight in an atmosphere. Off can ge aquaited with flight with out an atmpsphere, which in space is more realistic. Controling a craft in an atmosphere requires wings, flaps, tail, rudder. In space thrusters are needed, wings and such are of no use.
You didn't pay for the Unison MIDI chord pack, did you?
Honestly, so very tricky with what I affectionately (not) call twitchystick piloting, as in phantom inputs galore.
And then permanently borked my joystick whilst trying to fix it today. Not too bad of a break, but a pain. Yay!
I have a question related to this actually. I'm in a position at the moment where I have access to neither a gamepad, nor a joyttick or HOTAS system, therefore I'm using the keyboard + mouse to controll the game, which isn;'t terrible with FA on as it stands.
In the event that I wanted to learn with FA off, would you still recommend the FPS approach as an intuitive control scheme change? W and S for forward and reverse thrust (which is default), but remapping A and D to lateral thrust as opposed to yaw?
In that event I suppose it would make sense to remap the now unbound Q and E to yaw, for limited requirements of finger movement?
On keyboard + mouse, I would suggest Pitch and Yaw on your mouse, then Q & E for Roll, leaving A & D for lateral thrust but W & S for vertical thrust. This obviously leaves forwards/backwards without a mapping, could you not put this on your mouse wheel perhaps? This setup would be fairly similar if you were playing a fps in a lateral sense (sidestepping), it'll just be getting used to W & S for vertical strafing and the mouse wheel for forwards & backwards thrust. Then with the fine control for aiming in your right hand on mouse, and be able to roll when needed in your left hand on the keyboard. With Yaw being the slowest axis (certainly compared to Pitch) perhaps the differing sensitivity between them might take a bit of getting used to, but considering all aiming is done in one hand (and is very similar if you were using a joystick) it should feel very natural once you've overcome these orientation axes differing sensitivities.
I'm sure you're aware but I'll mention it just in case, but Frontier have implemented very useful power curve and sensitivity adjusters, so aiming with a mouse shouldn't be too cumbersome once you find a level you like. I have a friend who uses keyboard and mouse, and he's pretty good (Falkrum7 on here). I'll ask him how he has it all mapped for you. Shouldn't be too long for a reply.
LOOK INVERTED Thanks for that, seems a very unusual set up but I;ll certainly give it a go and probably dip into Solo to have a play with the setup so I don't run the risk of getting any player interference XD
Adam Coleman
Forgive me, I've just remembered how he does it. He actually found the same issue, mainly with mapping vertical thrust and/or forwards/backwards thrust to these W & S keys. He couldn't find a way to have both that felt intuitive to use. This is the main issue, which thrusters do you map to W & S... forwards/Backwards or Vertical thrust? In the end he bought a Razor Nostromo (keypad arrangement thingy), where he has W & S for forwards/backwards but then uses a little d-pad under his right thumb for vertical and lateral strafe.
So.. this basically means this setup I've given you is perhaps the best arrangement on a conventional keyboard, it's this 'which translation axis' do you put on W & S, either vertical thrust or forwards/backwards thrust. So yeah, if you put forwards/backwards on the mouse wheel this could be the only option, or vertical thrust on the mouse wheel, but I expect that would just be weird. I'll do a bit of research on the forum for you, see what else others are suggesting.
Im curious, how do you look around the cockpit?
+pee wee
I use a headtracking device called TrackIR. Absolutely fantastic device that works with an infra-red camera (positioned on top of one's monitor) that utilizes three pick-ups on a baseball cap clip, when you turn your head - the in-game cockpit character does exaclty the same. 'T'is rather expensive, though worth every penny in my opinion, however there are cheaper versions that pretty much do the same thing for a lot less wallet. Check out the "edtracker" if you're interested in using a headtracker and are on a budget.
it would be nice if you could also somehow show us the keys you are pressing at every moment, but I can understand if you dont want to do that because it would take a lot more work so it might not be worth it
edit: Oh you actually show the joystick at the part where you talk about rotation and stuff nice :)
edit2: ok because I play with keyboard and mouse some things arent really useful for me :S
+Diamond Games
Thanks for the feedback, part 2 and 3 where we actually start learning with specific exercises, these do have on-screen cues for which button[s] I'm pressing when I felt they were needed.
+Look Inverted oh ok, I didnt watch them yet, will do.
Noob question: Do i need a flight stick for FA-Off? Or can i use it with only an Xbox Gamepad?
+Jeffrey Herkk
not a noob question, and yes ideally you need a hotas (hands on joystick specifically) to play Elite with fa off. This is not to say it would be impossible with a gamepad but considering the axis extent you have got to work with on just one of the little sticks on a gamepad, inputing the right amount of counter each time would probably _(edit: well.. it is, I've tried it)_ be quite tricky.
Look Inverted
I guess i'll need to start saving some money to buy a flight stick. Thanks for the answer.
+Jeffrey Herkk
No probs Jeffrey, I highly recommend a hotas _(edit again: or at the very least just a joystick to use with a gamepad in your other hand for ship thrust, much like I do myself)_ of any kind really, but keep in mind in the mean time using mouse and keyboard can be sufficient to control a ship with no flight assistance as Frontier has implemented comprehensive adjustment tools such as mouse sensitivity and power curve options. Some players swear by using just M&K whilst flying with fa off.
+Jeffrey Herkk Yah. Its stupid flying without one. I tried a flight simulator with a keyboard and it was so imprecise. Just get a good Logitech 3d joystick for like $25... Have Fun!
Still a great video in 2023 :)
WHAT??? Are you using xbox-gamepad for left hand? Need your control layout if so! I also try it with my mouse for right hand, but there was not enough buttons to control usual systems.
BTW Hello mate! Great tutorial there, lots of useful tips.
Hi mate, yeah indeed I am. I pretty much explained my setup in this guide, but I can confirm it here again for you. Basically Left Stick and Left Trigger & Left Bumper used, left stick for forward/backward thrust, then lateral thrust - left and right on the same stick, and I use the Left Trigger for Thrust Up and Left Bumper for Thrust Down.
I chose to use thrust up on the trigger because this is the thruster used most because I roll until my target is above me, one would probably naturally use the bumper for thrust up being the control on the top of the two, but found it tiring to use and my hand got tired very quickly. To be honest I barely use left bumper (thrust down), only times is if I haven't timed my roll soon enough and need to boost down with thrust down held to re-direct quickly but very rare, plus for lining up for escape vector into SC as all thrusters are needed, and landing of course, but thrust down is certainly used the least. I also use the d-pad for power distribution, and a few other things like Frame Shift on 'back', 100% max throttle on 'x' for when I'm in FS and so don't have to hold the stick forwards all the time.
Are you considering using a pad with your mouse? Only slight disadvantage with using the pad is the smaller increments of throttle are harder to find, but with assist off, most thruster inputs required are maximums anyway. It does have the advantage of being able to apply full throttle and full reverse in quick succession, much quicker than you could ever do on a hotas.
LOOK INVERTED Thanks for detailed answer here, what button do you use for boost, heatsink, target selection and all those usual functions? Right now i am practicing with Razer Nostromo because there is nice d-pad. So i change my setup and using d-pad for vertical and lateral thrusters. Not very much success for now because is hard to relearn, but it should be nice in the end i guess.
Falkrum7
For functions like those, heat sink, silent running, landing gear, cargo hatch etc, are all on POV/HATs on my Rhino. It has three POV/HATs, so 12 functions mappable to these, plenty :)
I've used the Razor Nostromo in the past for first person shooters, I've got one myself, fits well in the palm of your hand, only issue to use this for thrusters is of course the digital buttons, so won't have quite the control as analogue inputs, but like we were discussing previously, most thruster inputs are maximums anyway certainly during combat, only real issue will be for landing, but not a massive problem if you take your time.
I see the issue you are having, if you started using a gamepad with mouse, you'll be having a serious issue with mappable controls, at least on your Nostromo you've plenty to choose from, like I've said my Rhino has lots of mappable buttons so no function is absent.
That said, the gamepad does have other buttons on it, simply you'd have to move your hand from holding it to press them, I could use some of these for less critical functions like landing gear, cargo hatch etc, and I expect I wouldn't really have any issues.
Am waffling, so many permutations for so many control methods, plus like you say it takes a bit of time to get used to these changes once we switch to an alternative contoller, not sure if I'm helping or making things worse for you with any valuable advice of use ;)
I'm getting better at this (slowly), but I have a real problem sticking to enemies. If they're being aggressive, I just seem to orbit them at kind of a set distance, and I can't get in a steady position, let alone an advantageous one! Any further tips to help with that? I'm really enjoying it and it seems like a new game all of a sudden, I just can't imagine myself ever not sucking! It's really hard. Like, old school hard - a flash back to the days of my gaming youth! Only problem is, now I have a family, and they don't seem to understand my latest obsession with flying a space ship with no training wheels!
+goldentramps
Hi goldentramps. Generally it's just practice (and continuing to accept all the back chat from the family due to your new obsession ;-). Main tip I would suggest is continue to stay in the Sidewinder and take on similar craft up to the size of a Cobra for instance (something like this: ua-cam.com/video/fgfO_mrI0qc/v-deo.html ) which will enable you to manoeuvre where you want a lot more easily simply because it's more responsive, then gradually navigate to piloting the larger ships once your muscle memory is engrained from the smaller ones.
One is constantly applying thrust once it's starting to all fall in to place and click, perhaps you're doing this already but aren't necessarily applying the correct thruster to get in to the "position" you want, so again the smaller craft will enable you to do this more easily and start to learn controlling habits.
What are you using to control?
+Look Inverted Thanks for the reply :)
I'm using CH gear to control: a combatstick, pro throttle and pro pedals. I've tried X52-pro, X55 and Cobra M5 too, but I think my current setup is my favourite so far. I'm flying about in a DBS at the moment as it seemed to fit the bill well for FAOFF, but I can hop back in a sidewinder.
goldentramps
Pedals ay, do you use them for the conventional ship yaw or main throttle? (some seem to prefer it that way but I would prob use them as yaw control surface if I used them, beneficial being able to separate that control from the stick itself - instead of yaw twist), that will certainly help with your control which ever way you have it set up.
DBS is still a relatively agile craft but I learnt most of my combat in a Sidey, has stood me in good stead I think.
+Look Inverted
I use the slide motion for yaw, but I also have the toe brake actions for forward and reverse thrust, but I don't really use it and I have full range throttle mapped, and also buttons for reverse and forward thrust on the back of the throttle which I use most of all tbh. Using pedals for yaw is taking some getting used to as I flew with it on the twist axis for so long, but for flight assist off it's great, as I no longer get accidental yawing when I'm rolling.
@@goldentramps wow, i never really thought to use my pedals for ED. I'm going to try this. thanks. I only have a Logitech 3D so i dont really have a separate throttle. I associate pedals with xplane, but never did with space flight. haha
I was going to do this if I could on Xbox one but I can't map vertical thrusters to left trigger AND left bumper. There's only one spot: vertical thrust AXIS. Sonofabitch.
Charlie Poppen I know right
Really excellent tutorial mate. I so want to get good at this but just overwhelmed by my own crapiness. (To hell with you spellcheck!)
Come the 23rd century this will be an essential study tool for noob pilots I expect.
Are you using a HOTAS?
is there also way to control left and right engine? im only asking coz my Mad Catz Cyborg joystick can have seperate thrust for left and right side
Tomas Gruber
Hi Tomas, no each thruster input lateral/vertical or forwards/backwards comes as a set of thrusters on each side of the ship, I would expect that would be very hard to control anyway if it acted like a tank (or a passenger jet would probably be a more apt and appropriate description) which is I suppose what you you mean, to combine that approach with yaw and pitch would get very confusing quick in a 6dof enviroment, but I understand why you are asking, I'm familiar with that kind of controller which has been designed for that twin engine approach.
yea i tried flying assist off and even without left/right engine thrust control it was too much for me.. im now using flight assist off just for few sec. in dogfight to try geting tighjter turns
Tomas Gruber
Sounds good. To be fair you wouldn't want to fly exclusively with no flight assistance like I do myself anyway, I simply carry on this way because I'm stubborn and having such a great time. Like you say if you use it for your tighter turns and perhaps when you need to keep momentum going fa off can help with this because constant throttle is not required for constant velocity and subsequently generate less heat as a result. Doesn't sound like a huge advantage, but in a game that is built on temperature signals for target lock and radar resolve it can have advantages in most circumstances, it's simply whether ones' lack of control offsets any advantages gained, so I choose to continue to practice and gain experience to perhaps benefit from these.
Thanks for your comments Tomas, I hope you found something useful across these guides, may we come across each other in the big black? Who knows!!
Can this be as efficient using a PS4 gamepad, or should I take the leap and purchase a HOTAS joystick?
This can be played with a gamepad (PS4 or xBox) in normal Assist On mode, but you'll have issues playing without a HOTAS in Assist Off mode in my opinion. It will be extremely difficult without simultaneous access to all three rotation axis of Pitch, Roll and Yaw (on a gamepad you have to use a toggle to constantly switch between Roll and Yaw due to the nature of the design). Hope this helps, but regardless of which Assist mode you use, you'll simply have more capability with a proper HOTAS, just even more so with Assist Off.
@@LOOKINVERTED I hear its very possible to get good with mouse and keyboard in flight assist off, is a HOTAS a necessary upgrade?
@@eliaspanayi3465 Absolutely so, there are players who've got extremely proficient in flying with assist off and with K&M, main advantage being the mouse aim for shooting (i.e: Pitch & Yaw) - hardest part using your keyboard hand with the usual WASD (two axis of vertical strafe & lateral strafe) plus two other keyboard keys for the remaining axis (forward / backward throttle - can't think off-hand which keys they use: some actually use the mouse roller I've heard, some use yet two more keyboard keys), plus another two for ship roll (usually Q&E). Plus keep in mind all these (bar the mouse) are digital inputs, not analogue like you'd get from a hotas or gamepad (for the most part), though flying with assist off you're using sustained inputs for most control surfaces so it's no particular drawback.
All being said and possible, the HOTAS is more than just a control method, it's for immersion too but isn't really justified for casual play of just one game / simulator.
Elite: Dangerous - Learning Flight Assist Off (Part 1)
#EliteDangerous #Frontier
There are already terms for the terms you made up... What you describe as "vector" is called "bearing," whereas "orientation" is called "heading."
+ayures
Terms I'll be using so no one gets confused, yes there are clearly more terms to describe the same thing. Your point being? _edit: "bearing"'s a good one I'll give you that, I should/could have used that :)_
+treschlet I was going off of aeronautical terms as defined in the FAA JO 7110.65.
+ayures Yeah, true, I had neglected to think about aeronautical terms, though I still think they don't quite line up. Heading still refers to the direction you're travelling AND the direction the craft is pointing since in a plane they don't really diverge (they do slightly but heading is still generally used to refer to direction of travel, and the offset from that is angle of attack). Bearing is used to refer to the relative orientation of two objects, and has no relation to velocity. If an object is behind me, it's bearing 180. to my right, bearing 90.
From the perspective of an air traffic controller, he would denote an object that was due east of the tower, traveling due south, as "bearing 90, heading 180"
Though, of course, this gets messier if you're thinking of heading as the direction the craft is pointing, and that they might not be travelling that direction relative to the GROUND, which can vary because of wind. In which case, you might consider "heading" to be the direction the craft is pointing, and "track" to be the direction the craft is travelling, but this is misleading. Track is, from the perspective of the Air Traffic Controller "what really matters" in a way, but they exist in a different frame of reference to the craft. From the perspective of the craft, it is always flying in the direction it is heading. It is in a different environment (the wind) and the fact that the earth is spinning underneath is of no consequence to the plane. If a plane was heading north, and there was a 100 mile an hour wind to the east, it would be tracking wildly to the east relative to the ground, but from the plane's perspective, it would be flying straight and true to the north, with no crosswind, and zero angle of attack.
In space we have no wind, and we're not measuring our orientation or velocity relative to other objects, rather a universal galactic coordinate space. So, Track is not something we care about, and "angle of attack" gets confusing as it is relative to your heading, so really we need a new absolute term to reference to that so:
If one wanted to use largely naval/aeronautic terms, but augmented for space, I would propose "Heading" to be equal to your velocity, "Facing" to refer to the direction the craft's nose is pointing, and "Bearing" can stay consistent as the relation of ship Facing to another object's position
Great Vid !
thanks Yakov :)
can i set up throttling with two analog pedals? it would be cool for one foot too be throttle forward and for the other to be throttle back ward.
jetison333
Good question. Of course one could set digital thrust as these with the thrust overrides in options but not ideal in the slightest, but yeah if your pedals are regarded as a single axis the throttle axis itself should accept it as one for an analogue input. Pedals are primarily for yaw axis, so I don't see why they won't work. I presume you are asking because you actually haven't any pedals to try otherwise you would have tested it, but if you like I can ask a friend of mine who has pedals to test this out for you if you want?
sure! that would be great, currently don't even have elite dangerous yet! XD am planning to get it as soon as i have enough money.
jetison333
No probs, I'll get back to you soon with an answer, should be tmrw.
LOOK INVERTED cool! thanks!
jetison333
Hi jetison, yeah I've been reliably informed that as long as the pedals work on an analogue principle (very unusual if they didn't and wouldn't be worth buying if so), then yes you can set these pedals on any axis you want, so sure for throttle you'd map your pedal axis to the main throttle axis, and like I described in this video, make sure you've the axis range on 'full range', then you'll "accelerate" with forward thrust on one and "brake" with reverse thrust on the other, possibly inverting the axis if it wasn't the way round you wanted.
I realy enjoyed these video's and help make ( i hope ) life in ED a little easyier.
+1 Sub from North Wales.
Ps i know that change of accent Welshman born in Wales brought up in England and moved back to Wales.
Its not correct that you can't reduce amount of vertical thrust when pitching with FA ON. All you have to do is to thrust DOWNWARDS at amount you desire - this will instruct computer to apply LESS UPWARDS thrust. This will allow you execute exactly same turn as with FA OFF - by having amount of tradeoff between distance/turn tightness as you wish.
+RidingTheFlow
You are correct, perhaps that section could have been explained a bit more thoroughly, adding thrust down instead to counter the normal thrust up with make you turn more quickly but one is more likely to stall as a consequence. Perhaps it's something to do with the assist computer almost getting confused a little, but still one can turn more quickly with fa off as turn rate increases the longer you hold it, and in conjunction with just thrust up and a small amount of forwards thrust one can turn more quickly with less likelyhood of stalling.
Appreciate the correction, in some ways comparing the two doesn't quite relate as a fair test as in one respect the assist computer seems to be able to cheat to halt a falling ship much more quickly than in fa off for instance, but in another respect this computer seems to halt ones' progress in a deterimental manner in some circumstances. Still I much prefer applying the exact amount of thrust in the fa off mode in conjuction with the increased turn rate possible.
+Look Inverted I don't think its "more likely" to stall, ultimately its all boils down to how much you practised doing it - I don't think its any more likely to stall than poorly executed FA-off turn. I find it beneficial because you are still getting advantage of precise rotation compensation if FA-on, allowing to turn & shoot more accurately - with FA off it requires high amount of very precise inputs to keep reticle on target while turning (esp. when enemy is not just going in straight line). In my experience precise rotation is more important than precise translation - because it places reticle on target.
RidingTheFlow
I can't argue with that to be honest, in some ways the fa off mode enables one to do certain things easier but in other respects like the rotational damping issue you mention, most certainly not. I suppose it comes down to personal preference, but I will say a pilot who toggles flight assist on & off in the right moments and efficiently is a force to be reakoned with. These pilots who use both modes to their advantage are the ones to be feared the most in combat.
Appreciate your feedback, perhaps we'll meet one day on the battlefield and fight along side each other (or perhaps on different sides :-)
I gave up at 1:42 because I'm looking for info on Flight Assist in Elite Dangerous.
same m8, same
Thank you so very much for this!
You're welcome Christian
Is it easy to do this with KB and mouse or you need to use HOTAS?
+Brothers of Gaming BOG
Ideally I'd recommend using a hotas, certainly if you intend to really get in to the game, it is ultimately a flight/space sim. That said I do know of a few cmdrs who have stuck with keyboard and mouse and even fly exclusively with fa off as well and clearly don't have any issues, none the less I'm sure they'd also agree that a proper hotas is a superior controller simply because one has all the control axes primarliy on your joystick with a "twist for yaw" function (as opposed to a mouse where one can only control two of the three axes, yaw and pitch leaving roll for the keyboard, usually on "Q" & "E").
Frontier has at least implemented comprehensive options for mouse specifically, sensitivity and power curve adjusters to at least get you flying with a commensurate amount of success.
+Look Inverted I've got it set up this way for mouse and keyboard - the roll being assigned to Q and E seems to work very well for FA off flying, I was not enjoying the default bindings for that. Even though it's a tremendous challenge, I can confirm that mouse pilots need not despair - FA off is difficult but certainly not impossible. I haven't dared to attempt landing - is rotational correction still applied with FA off?
Matt Van Vrancken
Cool, another actual mouse and keyboard user, good to hear you managing even with fa off. I have had a little experience and you're right one can still control one's craft efficiently with k&m, you do at least have those power and sensitivity curves for ship rotation, something the joystick user doesn't get.
Er yeah, rotational correction is always off with fa off, it's not needed one simply aligns their roll rotation with the entrance themselves.
+Look Inverted I have one USB port left that I can assign to a hotas, but I haven't the desk space for it. :(
as weird as it sounds, to me flying FA off feels a bit more like driving a car than a spaceship.
Apologies for the delay in replying, interesting take, would be quite a fun way of thinking about it actually with all the lateral "drifting" you'd end up doing as a result, plus forward / reverse thrust would increase or decrease the size of that drift. Good thoughts!!
can you get to the point ? ok after 5 minutes and still no progress i gave up
oh, you're here too, if you stay longer, pause and practice while watching, this is an incredible tutorial, with the other two videos - it's not an easy topic.
what kind of shield do you have on your Asp?
+The Andoxico
Apologies it's been so long since I made this I'm having trouble remembering, I didn't have the Asp for very long, but looking back at the video I have no 'pips' to shields ever do I and they seem to hold up against weapons fire pretty well, so I expect the best available (or at least close to. I know i wouldn't have fitted anything rubbish, below the optimum mass, certainly not below the hull mass as it wouldn't let you, so probably fitted the 6As).
Look Inverted damn those are like 15 million dollar shields if i remember correctly. thanks though
The Andoxico
One can get discounts on these upgrades at Founders World (has everything at 10% off i believe, but one needs Elite status and or a beta backer permit to gain access to the system) and.. also currently in one of the Empire Power Play territories (sorry can't remember which) with a 15% discount if you can find the relevant upgrade. You don't have to be pledged to this particular Power to get the discount (if you'd like I can do a bit of research to find which Empire Power territory it is?) Let me get back to you :)
_edit: I've found it: if you go to ANY station exploited or controlled by _*_Li Yong Rui_*_ you will receive a 15% discount on every ship _*_and part_*_ in that station._ Again you don't have to be pledged to this Li Yong Rui power to benefit from the discount, you may simpy have to hunt about to find the upgrade you're looking for in these Li Yong Rui exploited or controlled systems. Usual techniques apply, try high populated High Tech systems to increase your chances of finding the better upgrades/parts.
Look Inverted damn dude, looks like you put a lot of effort into that haha, thanks a lot!
The Andoxico
Not a problem, am here to help :)
Holy shit. This is difficult on Xbox One. My ship just keeps rolling and moving all over the place even when I'm still. (I understand Newtonian physics law is reason for this) but holy shit.
How am I supposed to control this with the (non able to remap button layout on XB1) I'm a noob to this game - but not space games. I've managed to stop the rolling by doing a roll to the opposite side. However, trying to straighten out is nightmare. Slightest movement has you spinning out of control.
+Papo Papo
Yeah ok, I haven't actually played/experienced E:D on the xbox but I can imagine it will be extremely hard to make small enough counters regularly with just a small joystick under ones thumb. It's hard enough with a hotas! You say the button layout is unchangeable, does it not feel intuitive even to play with fa on? I say this as reconfiguring the mappings/bindings aren't going to make much difference to this countering the rotation problem, you'll be using the best option on the pad itself already I'd expect.
It's debateable whether there's much of an advantage if any on the pc between fa off & on (less heat generation of fa off is off-set by the lack of rotational damping [inability to aim properly]), but I think on the xbox you've just proved it.
+Look Inverted Thanks for responding. 1st: I subscribed because you have amazing videos. Regarding your question, I feel like they are intuitive with FA On. At least for me - but definitely not Off.
It's cool because Xbox will lose my business. I am awaiting reviews of next years HTC Vive & Oculus Rift. Once I figure out which of the two I will commit to, I will be picking up a flight motion seat, and the thrustmaster Hotas and a very strong PC. I've been saving up for a min now so eventually I'll enjoy this game the way it's meant to and join the likes of yourself and others in the community whom are putting up great PC version E:D videos.
That said, before I pick that stuff up. M$ releases the Xbox One Elite controller this Oct. It will allow us to remap buttons & sensitivity, at least I will have that. Hopefully I remember, and stop by to let you know how's the experience. But next year, I'm done with console. Will be my first foray into PC, but I'm entering kitted out!
Papo Papo
I've yet to jump in/commit to any VR headset as yet, but I certainly will at some point (probably once the dev kits have gone through all the development they need to, don't see much point getting a second rate VR experience), that said I've only just recently got a rig together myself that is capable of running a VR headset and all the other things one uses/runs during a play/gaming session.
As far as which VR headset, hmm.. that's a good one and/or a tricky decision. I've heard very good things about the new HTC, that good to the point it's confuses your brain at first being very realistic, something the Oculus doesn't seem to do.
I'm not sure, like I say, we'll have a better idea once they're properly released.
Hope you get all your gear/rig together succesfully, it can be an expensive hobby, but worth every penny in my opinion when you're still a boy in a candy shop such as I. ;) Please do report back once you're up and running, perhaps we can get together in game at some point, see what trouble we can get in to.
Thanks for your compliments and comments :)
+Papo Papo
I had done a bit of research already about the "Elite" controller, to be honest when I first heard about it the name lured me in to thinking it was something to do with, or endorsed by Frontier for Elite, but it's just a coincidental name, though I was intrigued in getting one simply because of those paddles you mention. I hadn't actually seen that particular link you've just sent me, certainly looks the part too, but I was really hoping those paddles were analogue but it appears not unfortunately, still might be nice to use.
Like I say, I'd be happy to fly along side you, give you any other tips if I can, my callsign is on my homepage if and when you need it. (send me a pm too at the same time so I know who you are). Till then :)
+Look Inverted just as a side note: I wouldn't really call the current DK2 a "second rate VR" experience, as it's already quite awesome and immersive (I really puts you "in there" and adding some good headphones makes it even better). Yes sure the graphics will look better later on, but I wouldn't wanna go back to "without VR" from the DK2 to be honest... :)
Hey Tom guess what I do after a long day of training? Damn right look at your videos and get more proficient.
ej j Hahaha, I would have thought listening to me drone on about thrusting orientating vectors space dusty ships would be the last thing you want to watch after a hard day's work ;). But each to their own! _edit: you are missing the game already aren't you?_
Yes I having Elite withdraws when I am running and hate my life. So yeah I still do look at your videos. Hahah
+JesseUsmc Elsa I just watched this part again to refresh my memory once again, I think I'm getting lazy when pitching my ship.
JesseUsmc Elsa
Lazy in pitching? In the counter stage or the initial input stage? Or just overall?
+Look Inverted I would all the time, in the heat of the battle I no longer pay attention to the sweet spot, therefore I end up doing 180 without the use of thruster unless I'm going really slow.
Guide starts at 2:16
I really can't see the difference between the space dust flying.
I guess it's a very horrible idea if I'd fly my T9H with flight assist off...
+BlankFX
Haha, why not? (he says confidently). Largest vessel I've fa off'd is an Orca/Type-7 but they're slim and easy to dock in comparison I'd expect to a T-9, never had the pleasure, yet!
Look Inverted Because it's a flying Brick, especially with non-upgraded thrusters. It's quite hard to manuver with FA off, haha..
other way round for me mate, moved south, when I get drunk I am a teesside!
18:36 Is it just me or does the asteroid in the lower left look exactly like a little dog?
+Stunt Panda
Now that you mention it.. er no actually, with respect. I've been staring squinty eyed at said asteroid for 5 mins trying to figure it out :) Perhaps you could tell me how's it sitting/positioned? Where's its eyes and ears? Any dog I see looks like the elephant man/dog.
+Look Inverted I'm amazed you don't see it, it seem so clear to me:
i.imgur.com/i4kkvFI.png
Stunt Panda
Hahahahaha, I see it now (or course how couldn't I with that photoshopped doodle). Ah dear, you know what you've done now, I'm going to see daft little sweety doggies when I'm RES hunting finding it extremely hard to get in to the 'Pirate' kill everything mood. Thanks for that! ;-)
thank *YOU*
*unleashes Meme Cannon 2000*
Toggling between the two modes is useless once you truly master the FA-OFF. Rather surprising comment.
Thanks for your comment. Was so long ago can't remember when /where I said that. Could you point it out? I know @ 2:55 I said _"Those who toggle between the two modes and use both are the ones to be feared the most in combat."_
The issues being and why I said that, the toggling of flight assist when you're travelling at high speed applies an artificial amount of "brake" which slows the craft to a stop so much quicker than you could ever achieve with no flight assists (so when you un-toggle [just _before_ you've stopped, because it happens very quickly] you've slowed much faster into a velocity zone best for further manoeuvring - i.e: the blue zone - where you can then toggle back to no assists again. Learning to switch it on and off provides a method of flying unlike any other.)
@@LOOKINVERTED Wow, was not expeting an answer! I see your point, but in my opinion those who switch are those who can't fly FA-OFF permanently, i.e. those who need to toggle to get back on their feet once they lose conrol of the ship. Anyway, even after all this time that is by far the best video about FA-OFF that I've seen 👍
@@FlecheDeFer Thanks for the compliments, much appreciated since these guides took a lot of effort.
You sound like you're well versed in the art of fa off. There certainly are those too that are, as you say using it in an attempt to bring things back under control - when you're an fa off beginner it does feel like you're flying by the seat of your pants, but learning to use assists whether sparingly does add this extra abrupt slowing tool where it's just not possible without (like I say since there's this artificial braking coded into the mechanics - it's a bit weird you can't replicate it on your own suggesting there's something a bit funky going on).
All being said, flying with no assists is far more rewarding and enjoyable, perhaps using assists at all could ultimately hinder your skills and experience, can't argue there. Thanks again.
I'm reminded of Sunderland Jack. From 1980ish. No offence.
Wearside Jack? Haha, not offended, pretty bizarre and out-there reference but I can understand why. Given me a chuckle. edit: or is that chookle!!