Love this video! “I’m...really hurt and sad” That’s the freaking truth and it takes two seconds But then we also have to feel that, which is awfuuuul :( Excited for what you choose to share next around this, especially on learning “building emotional competency”, that sounds excellent! I struggle with what to do when we choose to be vulnerable and then get kicked in that soft spot. How to experience and heal those negative emotions when they get unexpectedly compounded is such a difficult thing. When the worst case scenario happens for demon feeling >> the feeling is made even worse.
Yes, that scenario is truly scary. 😨 That’s one of the difficult things about being vulnerable. If you’re not vulnerable, you’re guaranteed to not make deep connections. But on the other hand, being vulnerable doesn’t guarantee making a connection either. (I need to find another way to say that more clearly. 😅) I don’t think there are any hard and fast rules when it comes to dealing with things like people hurting you. It might mean you need to suck it up, be the bigger person, and communicate more or better. But it might also mean to set boundaries and let certain people go. I don’t think there’s any kind of easy solution, though.
The opposite of feelers that argue are feelers that agree to avoid confrontation, not address the issue and end up having to do things they don't want because they're so agreeable and they have no clue what the other really thinks. It's likely optimal to be in the middle or as I do it with my gf, we use me as the person to disagree if that is needed and she's there to agree cause it just drains me out to agree if do not fully agree (which is rare) - I mean in cases we have to deal with disagreement or agreement in real life together and other people. Me and my sister were both NTP (she entp and me intp) and we often enough disagreed with each other, but never had any drama over it, I think cause our disagreements were on logic stuff but the vibe was great and we were laughing half of hte time about ' serious topics', cause for us it was nothing personal. I think it's the Ne +Fe that kept the mood good. We never got "personal", as in purposely hurtful with each other, , but sometimes had a somewhat more heated argument, we always knew where we stood with each other and knew everything about each others strengths, weaknesses, challenges and just about anything. Now I watch my Fe dom gf and her friends and it's the opposite. They're mostly feelers. Everyone agrees on stuff right then and there, but I'm pretty sure they come home, talked to their partner about their meetup and gave their actual opinion. It's such a double edged sword. Sometimes I ask what her brother thinks about things and since the have such a 'friendly' relationship, there is no brutal honesty and she would have to guess what he thinks about things and she does not tell him what she really thinks. So no drama, but no real honest info over. To me that bond seems superficial, since it's so polite I think thinkers and men in general (which more often tend to be thinkers) tend to know each others opinions and amuch more ok with a bit of discussion so much more than women (which ten to be feelers) avoid it at all costs and if anything have a cold war rather than an open one. Also, if you pick a partner that doesnt mind your style then its not an issue with each other too. My likes about me that I'm opinioned an disagreeable and i liek her more agreeable, how old fashioned that may sound (i'm not old fashioned in most ways) but being opposite just makes things easier, just as a very talkative and a quiet ones who likes to listen are perfect for eachother too. Dave once said that 50% of males and females are thinkers/feelers, which seems to conflict with common sense observation even if you know maybe 10 or more couples. However, when it was about ISTP data (dominant thinkers) he said some stuff about male ISTPS and said he didn't knew that about women cause they didn't type that much female istps. These statements seem odd to me , as if there were equal numbers of ISTP men and women, then why do you not have data on them or do they magically not enjoy OPS but male ISTPs too? Even the number 50% seems to politically correct to be true...I mean..50% When is something ever really 50%?
That is an interesting point. I definitely see feelers who argue as well - probably because it is more of a human trait than specifically type related. That said, thinkers are more inclined to disagree or argue in a savior state, to a point that they don't even realise they are doing it. When they are in a savior state, their vibe will be calm, but when they are arguing from a triggered state, then their vibe will clearly be off. You can see this often from Jordan Peterson, who will sometimes cry while still arguing through his Ti. Feelers, in comparison, will more likely argue from a triggered state and will disagree using the feeling function (either Fe or Fi). We saw this with Harrison Ford who is lead Fi and often disagreed with interviewers in a savior state. I think overall in terms of OP, the level of agreeableness might have something to do with: Savior De, F De, savior friends. There are many F Te women who are extremely agreeable to the point that they struggle with being taken advantage of. Felix also did a video analyzing the data the community had at the time on officially typed people. This was obviously only a small sample of people, but the overall split for thinker men vs women was 50/50. Savior Ti was the most common savior decider function for men, and savior Te the most common decider function for women
@@practicalpersonality I think OPS Often types thinkers and feelers incorrectly, which results in incorrect numbers. *Could you honestly say you would actually type* *The Dazey INTP on youtube as an INTP* ? I'm curious if I will get an answer on this, as I know it's difficult to get a real answer on such things as no one in the OPS community dares to disagree with Dave and Shan and acts like they are some sort of gods that just are somehow magically always right about everything. However, it's well established everywhere outside of OPS that women are more feelers, nurturing etc than men on average. In all other systems, in " normal" scientific psychology. At least in normal psychology untill about 2017 when the woke was culture introduced ideas incoherent with reality. Also, let's say even purely hypothetically OPS would have correctly has typed women people as Te, it's still the question if that is because the type of people OPS attract are specific types. They have such a distinct presentation style that I am sure that not everyone likes to listen to (with all the swearing and such). It's a very Te presentation style, which could attract more Te types than feeler typesor at least specific types because too that like all their swearing and such behavior is certainly not a type of presentation style that a general audience likes. It's more a niche type of presentation style. Thirdly, there seems already such a culture that somehow OPS does not attract people that are remotely critical of their system, which likely makes the pool of people that will follow OPS much more obedient and submissive in nature than the average person, which again would skew the numbers. People in the OPS community I've spoken to do dare to openly critique it because they're afraid of the community gets mad at them. Even Binyamin said in one video he doubted if animals were even a thing, yet in the next video he acts like they're totally real and acts like he never said that. I have the impression that a lot of of people in the OPS community want a system that tells them what to think, so they do not have to think themselves. At least, that is objectively the type of sytem it is. You really do not have to think much yourself as everything gets told to you. You just have to follow the leader and do exactly as they do. It's often High Te types that like mentors and such and OPS is sort of offering that. They tell you what to do, there is a clear hierarchy where the OPS " bosses" is higher in a sort of ranking than the followers. It's very clear at least there is is no level of equality there.
Great video like always guys 😊 Also awesome that you can make an individual retrospective and analysis of your own experiences and recognize mistakes plus emotions as something to learn from. Keep up with the good work 👏✨
I really think it depends on the Fi state of the person with Te. But you’re right that blindly agreeing with the Ti person might exactly be the wrong thing to do. The person with Ti might actually want the Te to care about their work and constructively critique it to make it better.
There's nothing more frustrating and triggering than someone saying something questionable and then them just avoiding any kind of discussion or clarification when i'm like "what you mean?". Or reversely, judging something I said negatively and then refusing to elaborate. Can absolutely drive me up a wall. I think the issue here is that "letting it be" can sometimes feel like i'm being pushed on or diminished in some way and that i'd be letting it happen, or something like that, which is a big no no. Although sometimes i'm just simply baffled by a statement and can't let it go. ... yes this is a charged topic for me.
I love arguing!!! When I was in Christianity it was low key a sport and it was my favorite 💅I try to get consent before I start shit now 😂 …when I actually do know full well that I’m bout to start some shit consciously (I don’t always obviously)
Awww, but arguing can be fun! To paraphrase [whoever actually said it], arguing with a masculine thinker is like wrestling with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig enjoys it.
I absolutely love this! Funnily enough, I never thought of arguing as an unconscious need for us to bring emotions to the surface, insightful stuff 👌👌 Directly expressing emotions and being vulnerable is hard, I think there’s definitely a safety element to it, but once I got that, it was much easier for me! Still lots more work to do on that front though
I get no better feeling than standing up for what I believe in and watching other people get angry.
👍
@@practicalpersonality I practice non violent communication with plenty of hatred in my heart
Ti/Se (CPBS)
I say, "If a concept is universally applicable, then it's true."
Glad to hear it 🙂
I love this! I agree 💯 the way to go! ❤
Love this video!
“I’m...really hurt and sad” That’s the freaking truth and it takes two seconds
But then we also have to feel that, which is awfuuuul :(
Excited for what you choose to share next around this, especially on learning “building emotional competency”, that sounds excellent!
I struggle with what to do when we choose to be vulnerable and then get kicked in that soft spot. How to experience and heal those negative emotions when they get unexpectedly compounded is such a difficult thing. When the worst case scenario happens for demon feeling >> the feeling is made even worse.
Yes, that scenario is truly scary. 😨
That’s one of the difficult things about being vulnerable. If you’re not vulnerable, you’re guaranteed to not make deep connections. But on the other hand, being vulnerable doesn’t guarantee making a connection either.
(I need to find another way to say that more clearly. 😅)
I don’t think there are any hard and fast rules when it comes to dealing with things like people hurting you. It might mean you need to suck it up, be the bigger person, and communicate more or better. But it might also mean to set boundaries and let certain people go.
I don’t think there’s any kind of easy solution, though.
The opposite of feelers that argue are feelers that agree to avoid confrontation, not address the issue and end up having to do things they don't want because they're so agreeable and they have no clue what the other really thinks. It's likely optimal to be in the middle or as I do it with my gf, we use me as the person to disagree if that is needed and she's there to agree cause it just drains me out to agree if do not fully agree (which is rare) - I mean in cases we have to deal with disagreement or agreement in real life together and other people.
Me and my sister were both NTP (she entp and me intp) and we often enough disagreed with each other, but never had any drama over it, I think cause our disagreements were on logic stuff but the vibe was great and we were laughing half of hte time about ' serious topics', cause for us it was nothing personal. I think it's the Ne +Fe that kept the mood good. We never got "personal", as in purposely hurtful with each other, , but sometimes had a somewhat more heated argument, we always knew where we stood with each other and knew everything about each others strengths, weaknesses, challenges and just about anything. Now I watch my Fe dom gf and her friends and it's the opposite. They're mostly feelers. Everyone agrees on stuff right then and there, but I'm pretty sure they come home, talked to their partner about their meetup and gave their actual opinion. It's such a double edged sword. Sometimes I ask what her brother thinks about things and since the have such a 'friendly' relationship, there is no brutal honesty and she would have to guess what he thinks about things and she does not tell him what she really thinks. So no drama, but no real honest info over. To me that bond seems superficial, since it's so polite I think thinkers and men in general (which more often tend to be thinkers) tend to know each others opinions and amuch more ok with a bit of discussion so much more than women (which ten to be feelers) avoid it at all costs and if anything have a cold war rather than an open one.
Also, if you pick a partner that doesnt mind your style then its not an issue with each other too. My likes about me that I'm opinioned an disagreeable and i liek her more agreeable, how old fashioned that may sound (i'm not old fashioned in most ways) but being opposite just makes things easier, just as a very talkative and a quiet ones who likes to listen are perfect for eachother too.
Dave once said that 50% of males and females are thinkers/feelers, which seems to conflict with common sense observation even if you know maybe 10 or more couples. However, when it was about ISTP data (dominant thinkers) he said some stuff about male ISTPS and said he didn't knew that about women cause they didn't type that much female istps. These statements seem odd to me , as if there were equal numbers of ISTP men and women, then why do you not have data on them or do they magically not enjoy OPS but male ISTPs too? Even the number 50% seems to politically correct to be true...I mean..50% When is something ever really 50%?
That is an interesting point. I definitely see feelers who argue as well - probably because it is more of a human trait than specifically type related. That said, thinkers are more inclined to disagree or argue in a savior state, to a point that they don't even realise they are doing it. When they are in a savior state, their vibe will be calm, but when they are arguing from a triggered state, then their vibe will clearly be off. You can see this often from Jordan Peterson, who will sometimes cry while still arguing through his Ti.
Feelers, in comparison, will more likely argue from a triggered state and will disagree using the feeling function (either Fe or Fi). We saw this with Harrison Ford who is lead Fi and often disagreed with interviewers in a savior state.
I think overall in terms of OP, the level of agreeableness might have something to do with: Savior De, F De, savior friends. There are many F Te women who are extremely agreeable to the point that they struggle with being taken advantage of.
Felix also did a video analyzing the data the community had at the time on officially typed people. This was obviously only a small sample of people, but the overall split for thinker men vs women was 50/50. Savior Ti was the most common savior decider function for men, and savior Te the most common decider function for women
@@practicalpersonality I think OPS Often types thinkers and feelers incorrectly, which results in incorrect numbers. *Could you honestly say you would actually type*
*The Dazey INTP on youtube as an INTP* ? I'm curious if I will get an answer on this, as I know it's difficult to get a real answer on such things as no one in the OPS community dares to disagree with Dave and Shan and acts like they are some sort of gods that just are somehow magically always right about everything. However, it's well established everywhere outside of OPS that women are more feelers, nurturing etc than men on average. In all other systems, in " normal" scientific psychology. At least in normal psychology untill about 2017 when the woke was culture introduced ideas incoherent with reality.
Also, let's say even purely hypothetically OPS would have correctly has typed women people as Te, it's still the question if that is because the type of people OPS attract are specific types. They have such a distinct presentation style that I am sure that not everyone likes to listen to (with all the swearing and such). It's a very Te presentation style, which could attract more Te types than feeler typesor at least specific types because too that like all their swearing and such behavior is certainly not a type of presentation style that a general audience likes. It's more a niche type of presentation style.
Thirdly, there seems already such a culture that somehow OPS does not attract people that are remotely critical of their system, which likely makes the pool of people that will follow OPS much more obedient and submissive in nature than the average person, which again would skew the numbers. People in the OPS community I've spoken to do dare to openly critique it because they're afraid of the community gets mad at them. Even Binyamin said in one video he doubted if animals were even a thing, yet in the next video he acts like they're totally real and acts like he never said that. I have the impression that a lot of of people in the OPS community want a system that tells them what to think, so they do not have to think themselves. At least, that is objectively the type of sytem it is. You really do not have to think much yourself as everything gets told to you. You just have to follow the leader and do exactly as they do. It's often High Te types that like mentors and such and OPS is sort of offering that. They tell you what to do, there is a clear hierarchy where the OPS " bosses" is higher in a sort of ranking than the followers. It's very clear at least there is is no level of equality there.
Great video like always guys 😊 Also awesome that you can make an individual retrospective and analysis of your own experiences and recognize mistakes plus emotions as something to learn from. Keep up with the good work 👏✨
NO! 🙃
I see not arguing with M-Tis causes more negative emotions sometimes 😅 It feels like they get more frustrated when Te just agrees...
I really think it depends on the Fi state of the person with Te. But you’re right that blindly agreeing with the Ti person might exactly be the wrong thing to do.
The person with Ti might actually want the Te to care about their work and constructively critique it to make it better.
There's nothing more frustrating and triggering than someone saying something questionable and then them just avoiding any kind of discussion or clarification when i'm like "what you mean?". Or reversely, judging something I said negatively and then refusing to elaborate. Can absolutely drive me up a wall. I think the issue here is that "letting it be" can sometimes feel like i'm being pushed on or diminished in some way and that i'd be letting it happen, or something like that, which is a big no no. Although sometimes i'm just simply baffled by a statement and can't let it go.
... yes this is a charged topic for me.
you see us 😂
here how to really argue if you are smart
ask one question to make someone think than drop it (and never bring it up again)
try this technique
I love arguing!!! When I was in Christianity it was low key a sport and it was my favorite 💅I try to get consent before I start shit now 😂 …when I actually do know full well that I’m bout to start some shit consciously (I don’t always obviously)
Love all the little Dave and Shan-isms that have unwittingly leaked into my own speech as well!
I strongly disagree with this notion that thinkers disagree ;)
Of course you do 😆
If you're a thinker and this makes sense to you, then you're not really a thinker.
imagine being self aware as a thinker and see sense in this video
👍
no
are you a thinker?
@@timo4258 🤣🤣🤣🤣
speaking into my soul. ugh.
Awww, but arguing can be fun! To paraphrase [whoever actually said it], arguing with a masculine thinker is like wrestling with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig enjoys it.
Haha I love that 😂 you are right though, arguing can certainly be fun!
I absolutely love this! Funnily enough, I never thought of arguing as an unconscious need for us to bring emotions to the surface, insightful stuff 👌👌
Directly expressing emotions and being vulnerable is hard, I think there’s definitely a safety element to it, but once I got that, it was much easier for me! Still lots more work to do on that front though