Wow, watching the charging at Electrify America stations makes me appreciate Tesla Supercharging network more than ever. Never had a problem ever over 10 years now at any Supercharger.
Charging at home for me. Happy with my Tesla and the supercharger network. Still do 95% of my charging at home. I sure hope the charging networks can work out the bugs soon.
Ooooh editing and special effects. I really want a Rivian but must weight till the CyberTruck. Also great job showing the entire process, from failed connections, being "iced", to timeline. I know with our Model Y, we park, plug in, and watch Bobs Burgers in the car. Super simple and easy.
Not sure what the situation was when the Kona got there either, Maybe the 150's were taken or didn't work even though they looked like they were up and working. I have had to charge at 350's on several occasions at several locations in my Niro EV (max charge rate of around 74kW) as everything else was down. Also I WILL charge at a 350kW if my choice is between the working 350kW station and the one with CHAdeMO as I don't want to hang the very few cars that have CHAdeMO out to dry as they typically have much shorter ranges so have little ability to skip a station and go on to the next.
This is more In Depth gold. Thanks guys for the data comparing EA charging the only 2 EV trucks currently available (Hummer doesn't count). As a wise man once said, it's the Superchargers stupid ... and clearly it is. All the features and performance in the world can't make up for a weak charging network. That problem is solvable but when and how are the questions. The App and all software issues give Tesla a huge advantage, Now if we only had our Cybertrucks so we could gloat about it's massive practical advantages. So, Tesla has the charging network and software problems solved and when the truck hits it should be smooth sailing. Let's hope that all the waiting will lead to a superior truck as well.
A follow up to this would be a 150 kW face off at the EA corral. (That is, assuming there are two working 150 chargers.) Would the Lightning’s lower max charging rate do better than the Rivian?
That was a fun intro! Loved it guys! Y'all have really ramped up the profanity in your videos though. What's with that? Can't play them at work anymore.
The EA charging network reminds me of the Excelcior chasing the Enterprise out of space dock after Scotty sabotaged their trans-warp drive. After some comical sounds from the warp drive stalling out, the control computer reboots and says, "Good morning captain".
Since the Ford only pulled about 150 kW for the majority of the time you should have just used the 150 kW charge station. By doing so the battery would have stayed at a lower temperature and may have lowered your charge time. I make this statement because when I charge my IONIQ 5 at a 150 kW station it charges at a rate of 150 kW until I get to 80% SOC. When I use a 350kW charger it peaks at 235 kW but then declines. However, when using the 350 kW station it reaches 80% SOC only about 4 minutes faster.
Awesome test, but I think this screams for a re-match. That dip to 30 kw on the Rivian is quite odd and could very well be the EA charger doing something weird. Next time, I'd try testing on one of the new V2 EA chargers, which should be (theoretically) more reliable than the older versions which are a big mess.
I was charging at an EA in Hillsboro NC last week and ALL of the chargers went down. There are four chargers, two of which worked at 7AM. When we returned from Virginia at about 6PM, ALL FOUR eventually went down. Luckily, we charged about 30kWh before our session 'crashed', and we could get back to our destination.
At what temperature did you do these experiments? I would be interested to know if they were similar in freezing weather. Does either have a heat pump?
That Rivian charge curve seems to indicate the Rivian is having to throttle back and cool their pack a lot. If you have seen the breakdowns of the Ford you would see cooling hoses all over the place. Lots of leak possibilities but possibly superior cooling. Would be interesting to see if cooler weather would up Rivian’s game??
Having watched up to 9 Minutes in all when I started to write this comment, what could say is that you guys should have had a time lapse camera on a tripod focused on the screen just so you can record all the numbers it spat out for smooth plotting of the curve as you were charging for analysis. I would have had two cameras for that. One looking at the charger display, and one at the vehicle display, sync the videos and repeat it at least three times. I would like to ask if the radiator fans on either vehicle activated during the charge.
I really don't understand the reason everyone uses the amount of energy put in. What is useful for me is how long will it take to start with 20% and add 200 miles of range. That is about the amount I will want to get to the next charger. You could even go to 250 miles of range but I think that will add too much time. I know range is dependent on many factors but most vehicles will give you a decent estimate.
I disagree. The miles guesstimate is useless in my opinion. Miles/kwh will vary by vehicle, driving style, elevation, temperature & road condition.. I find % much more useful.
Jim, I agree with you based on road trips between New England & S. Florida. Amount of time waiting at a charger is paramount, not kW or cost. ABRP had me stopping more often than Tesla GPS, but total elapse time of trip was shorter. Due to numerous charger locations, ABRP typically had me charging from 25 to 65%. Some charging sessions were only 12 mins and restrooms were 10 mins round trip so not enough time to pick up a snack.
That is actually the most important part of this which is completely missed. As mentioned, the batteries are very similar in size and chemistry. The manufacturers program the curve to what ever they want. Ford could have set up their truck so that it gets 200kw from 0 to 100% if they want. It would have been great at leaving the competition in the dust in these initial reviews but the consequence is that the battery would be destroyed in no time. Rivian decided to set their curve to burst out fast and taper off fast. Ford decided to do more of a slower but steady pace. Could be that Ford is being too conservative or it could be that Rivian is stressing their battery too hard. Only time will tell to see which manufacturer chose the correct curve to prolong battery life.
wonder if you could test the towing charge of Rivian. charge up the Ford and tow pull rivian and see how much charge you lose or put into Rivian would be intereting?
I want a re-match. Science would better if you had more data points. I like using the same charger for both vehicles as another charger would offer more noise (different electronic component performance, etc), in the system. Next face-off, let the Riven charge before the Ford., and with different outside temperatures, etc. AND great job! Glad you did this face-off. Keep up the great work!
Zac & Jess. Fun video. Thanks. I've owned my R1T for about a month now. In my limited experience, EA chargers around me are unreliable and I prefer EVgo. I clocked 214kW on a 350kW station. And at 30 cents/min, ends up being about a third less than EA at 43 cents/kW for the same number of kWs.
"Slower while battery is cooling" also means the battery needs a better cooling system. Or a nice winter day. Makes you wonder, are the charge controllers just running different programs intentionally, because of battery longevity choices/issues?
Got my Y in March. Have not yet installed home wall connector, but that happens imminently. It will be good not to have to spend even 30-40 minutes at local superchargers for local travel. But sitting at a supercharger is kind of a zen experience, better if not in a store basement where there is no cell service.
You guys had better luck at that charging stall than I did. I charged my Lightning on that very same 350kW pedestal and it bricked on me after 2 minutes and I had to move to the 150kW.
No, these EA Signet & older ABB units do not load share. They have a dedicated cabinet. That’s why they were so annoyed about the Kona hogging a 350 kw unit. Some of the newer BTC units have load sharing but the shared cabinets have much larger overall capacity.
I’m so glad I own a Tesla. I know you were super excited to see 213kW but when I pull into Tesla superchargers with 20% or less left in the battery, I tend to start my charging at 250-255kw. (I’m sure you have seen this before) So 213 kW for a few seconds made me laugh. You guys rock. Keep up the good work.
Sounds like if you charge by the minute anything that charges at a rate less than 100kwh doesn't make sense. Around 65-70% SOC is where I would cut off the charging.
haha.. That's funny one of the guys mentioned Adam Savage of MythBusters as that is who I think this guy on here looks like. Each time I see him, I'm reminded of Adam Savage from MythBusters. lol..
i would like to point out. during the Rivian charge. Jessie did mention something about it slowing down while the battery cooled off? could that have accounted for some of the massive dip? would be interesting to see this test done at night, to remove some of the external Temp from the equation.
I want RESTAURANT mode. You tell it what time you will be back from eating, and it will slow down the charging so it finishes just when you get back. No idling charges.
I doubt you have thought this through! How would you feel if you had to wait an extra 10 minutes because the current charging car is in restaurant mode? If it was your charger would you allow customers to take an extra 10 minutes to charge?
For a confirmation of this charging test and make it more scientific, do it again on the same time of the day and start with the Rivian. Then continue with the Ford but start at the same time that the Rivian started at the previous test. Chose a similar day in term of weather.
Remember that the EA network was built out because of Diesel Gate. In fact the entire company was created because of that. Basically the company doesn't want to exist so it has no incentive to optimize. Just my take.
@@ryanmarbut1035 But now they're between a rock and a hard place. Enough cars to NEED the network, but huge investment to make it reliable (not to mention 5x the cost of a Tesla charger)
I only tried using Electrify Am. Once, it was a total fail as it started to charge and 10 min later stopped charging and when I returned to my vehicle I only had a 10 minute charge. So unreliable!
Wow, watching the charging at Electrify America stations makes me appreciate Tesla Supercharging network more than ever. Never had a problem ever over 10 years now at any Supercharger.
Great Job NYK team ! very enjoyable and true to the point. Nothing beats a tesla supercharger in terms of plug and forget.
Zack and Jesse the intro is the Shizzzzzzz. Great work...
Charging at home for me. Happy with my Tesla and the supercharger network. Still do 95% of my charging at home. I sure hope the charging networks can work out the bugs soon.
Ooooh editing and special effects. I really want a Rivian but must weight till the CyberTruck. Also great job showing the entire process, from failed connections, being "iced", to timeline. I know with our Model Y, we park, plug in, and watch Bobs Burgers in the car. Super simple and easy.
Not sure what the situation was when the Kona got there either, Maybe the 150's were taken or didn't work even though they looked like they were up and working. I have had to charge at 350's on several occasions at several locations in my Niro EV (max charge rate of around 74kW) as everything else was down. Also I WILL charge at a 350kW if my choice is between the working 350kW station and the one with CHAdeMO as I don't want to hang the very few cars that have CHAdeMO out to dry as they typically have much shorter ranges so have little ability to skip a station and go on to the next.
This is more In Depth gold. Thanks guys for the data comparing EA charging the only 2 EV trucks currently available (Hummer doesn't count). As a wise man once said, it's the Superchargers stupid ... and clearly it is. All the features and performance in the world can't make up for a weak charging network. That problem is solvable but when and how are the questions. The App and all software issues give Tesla a huge advantage, Now if we only had our Cybertrucks so we could gloat about it's massive practical advantages.
So, Tesla has the charging network and software problems solved and when the truck hits it should be smooth sailing. Let's hope that all the waiting will lead to a superior truck as well.
😂😂 I can see the PTSD in Jessie from his last time he had charge rage 😡💢 ⛽⚡
A follow up to this would be a 150 kW face off at the EA corral. (That is, assuming there are two working 150 chargers.) Would the Lightning’s lower max charging rate do better than the Rivian?
I can only offer a open Supercharger with 250kW. There are always enough stalls available. But then they are in Europe with CCS plugs. Oh well...
That was a fun intro! Loved it guys! Y'all have really ramped up the profanity in your videos though. What's with that? Can't play them at work anymore.
The EA charging network reminds me of the Excelcior chasing the Enterprise out of space dock after Scotty sabotaged their trans-warp drive. After some comical sounds from the warp drive stalling out, the control computer reboots and says, "Good morning captain".
Since the Ford only pulled about 150 kW for the majority of the time you should have just used the 150 kW charge station. By doing so the battery would have stayed at a lower temperature and may have lowered your charge time. I make this statement because when I charge my IONIQ 5 at a 150 kW station it charges at a rate of 150 kW until I get to 80% SOC. When I use a 350kW charger it peaks at 235 kW but then declines. However, when using the 350 kW station it reaches 80% SOC only about 4 minutes faster.
Awesome test, but I think this screams for a re-match. That dip to 30 kw on the Rivian is quite odd and could very well be the EA charger doing something weird. Next time, I'd try testing on one of the new V2 EA chargers, which should be (theoretically) more reliable than the older versions which are a big mess.
The 30kw seem to be caused by an EA charger cooling issue
The rivian had time to cool off after driving and before charging… it probably negatively effected the Rivian but more testing would be needed
What is the possibility of the charger not working perfectly, as evidenced by the error code being received?
How about a "will it fit in the garage" contest.
I love that you guys will kick trucks you bought and the charging network.
I was charging at an EA in Hillsboro NC last week and ALL of the chargers went down. There are four chargers, two of which worked at 7AM. When we returned from Virginia at about 6PM, ALL FOUR eventually went down. Luckily, we charged about 30kWh before our session 'crashed', and we could get back to our destination.
Loved the charge off!! Hilarious 😂
Great intro indeed! 🤺🚙
I had a good laugh. 😂
This makes me even happier to wait for the Cybertruck
At 49, I was versed enough to get your opening skit and thoroughly love it.
love the opening
At what temperature did you do these experiments?
I would be interested to know if they were similar in freezing weather.
Does either have a heat pump?
Does the F150 have the "max towing package" with dual HVAC to cool the batteries?
That Rivian charge curve seems to indicate the Rivian is having to throttle back and cool their pack a lot. If you have seen the breakdowns of the Ford you would see cooling hoses all over the place. Lots of leak possibilities but possibly superior cooling.
Would be interesting to see if cooler weather would up Rivian’s game??
I highly think that the charger was overheated after 70-90 minutes of abuse. Rivian should have won easily, based on the other reviews I saw on UA-cam
You're thinking of the Mach E?
I think they redesigned after the scathing Munro critique?
Someone has probably said this but every single time i charge i plug in first and then start it from the app
Having watched up to 9 Minutes in all when I started to write this comment, what could say is that you guys should have had a time lapse camera on a tripod focused on the screen just so you can record all the numbers it spat out for smooth plotting of the curve as you were charging for analysis.
I would have had two cameras for that. One looking at the charger display, and one at the vehicle display, sync the videos and repeat it at least three times.
I would like to ask if the radiator fans on either vehicle activated during the charge.
I see that DJI camera in the reflection. NOOICE
plug in and swipe to start charge, always seems to work for me at Electrify Canada chargers,.... not sure why EA would be any different...
What about a miles added per minute graph? That is the most useful metric. Not % or kWh added per minute.
What does the vehicle state of charge vs. KWhrs charge rate look like? Might tell you something about how the software controls the charging.
Hilarious into, i loved it!!! Good program guys thanks!
I really don't understand the reason everyone uses the amount of energy put in. What is useful for me is how long will it take to start with 20% and add 200 miles of range. That is about the amount I will want to get to the next charger. You could even go to 250 miles of range but I think that will add too much time. I know range is dependent on many factors but most vehicles will give you a decent estimate.
I disagree. The miles guesstimate is useless in my opinion. Miles/kwh will vary by vehicle, driving style, elevation, temperature & road condition.. I find % much more useful.
Jim, I agree with you based on road trips between New England & S. Florida. Amount of time waiting at a charger is paramount, not kW or cost. ABRP had me stopping more often than Tesla GPS, but total elapse time of trip was shorter. Due to numerous charger locations, ABRP typically had me charging from 25 to 65%. Some charging sessions were only 12 mins and restrooms were 10 mins round trip so not enough time to pick up a snack.
the intro is worth a thumbs up already :-)
The take away from this for me is ... I'm glad we have a CT on order because the Super Charger Network is the unsung hero for future EV owner.
Looks good. One additional factor to consider - life of battery pack over life of the truck.
That is actually the most important part of this which is completely missed. As mentioned, the batteries are very similar in size and chemistry. The manufacturers program the curve to what ever they want. Ford could have set up their truck so that it gets 200kw from 0 to 100% if they want. It would have been great at leaving the competition in the dust in these initial reviews but the consequence is that the battery would be destroyed in no time. Rivian decided to set their curve to burst out fast and taper off fast. Ford decided to do more of a slower but steady pace. Could be that Ford is being too conservative or it could be that Rivian is stressing their battery too hard. Only time will tell to see which manufacturer chose the correct curve to prolong battery life.
wonder if you could test the towing charge of Rivian. charge up the Ford and tow pull rivian and see how much charge you lose or put into Rivian would be intereting?
BEST intro, EVER!
Please do an interview with Joe Justice
Best intro eva!
I want a re-match. Science would better if you had more data points. I like using the same charger for both vehicles as another charger would offer more noise (different electronic component performance, etc), in the system. Next face-off, let the Riven charge before the Ford., and with different outside temperatures, etc.
AND great job! Glad you did this face-off. Keep up the great work!
Opening scene! THIS IS GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Instant *thumbs up*!!
Zac & Jess. Fun video. Thanks. I've owned my R1T for about a month now. In my limited experience, EA chargers around me are unreliable and I prefer EVgo. I clocked 214kW on a 350kW station. And at 30 cents/min, ends up being about a third less than EA at 43 cents/kW for the same number of kWs.
Jessie “James” Electrovehicular at the intro for your consideration, esteemed awards committee.
"Slower while battery is cooling" also means the battery needs a better cooling system. Or a nice winter day.
Makes you wonder, are the charge controllers just running different programs intentionally, because of battery longevity choices/issues?
AKA "Hyundai mode" 😉
Got my Y in March. Have not yet installed home wall connector, but that happens imminently. It will be good not to have to spend even 30-40 minutes at local superchargers for local travel. But sitting at a supercharger is kind of a zen experience, better if not in a store basement where there is no cell service.
That intro earned the rest of my view! 🤣🤣🤣
Lost it while watching the intro lmfao
You guys had better luck at that charging stall than I did. I charged my Lightning on that very same 350kW pedestal and it bricked on me after 2 minutes and I had to move to the 150kW.
Intro very well produced !
You have to hold up the Connector until it is starts charging :-) Known problem with HPC
You guys have the best channel ever
17:21 it seems likely that this is because you switched the charge limit from 80% to 100%, unless this is a coincidence?
Graph of miles v time would be interesting. That way you can plan how much time you would need for target no of miles.
Good job you guys!
Does charger allocate its capacity between chargers? It looked like several cars were charging during latter portion of Rivian charge.
No, these EA Signet & older ABB units do not load share. They have a dedicated cabinet. That’s why they were so annoyed about the Kona hogging a 350 kw unit. Some of the newer BTC units have load sharing but the shared cabinets have much larger overall capacity.
@@lh2338 Good to know, thanks
That was fun. Thanks guys.
I’m so glad I own a Tesla. I know you were super excited to see 213kW but when I pull into Tesla superchargers with 20% or less left in the battery, I tend to start my charging at 250-255kw. (I’m sure you have seen this before) So 213 kW for a few seconds made me laugh.
You guys rock. Keep up the good work.
Now, I am so thankful to have a Tesla DCFC for road trips vs all other brands, especially EA.
Sounds like if you charge by the minute anything that charges at a rate less than 100kwh doesn't make sense. Around 65-70% SOC is where I would cut off the charging.
Really looks like the F150 can't really use the 350kw charger too, if it maxes at 150ish it's not going to take the most that another vehicle can.
Producers need a raise for this one!😂👍🏼
Lol this was great. Have you guys done the herberts candy mansion thing yet?
haha.. That's funny one of the guys mentioned Adam Savage of MythBusters as that is who I think this guy on here looks like. Each time I see him, I'm reminded of Adam Savage from MythBusters. lol..
i would like to point out. during the Rivian charge. Jessie did mention something about it slowing down while the battery cooled off? could that have accounted for some of the massive dip?
would be interesting to see this test done at night, to remove some of the external Temp from the equation.
That intro was really great xD
I want RESTAURANT mode. You tell it what time you will be back from eating, and it will slow down the charging so it finishes just when you get back. No idling charges.
I doubt you have thought this through!
How would you feel if you had to wait an extra 10 minutes because the current charging car is in restaurant mode?
If it was your charger would you allow customers to take an extra 10 minutes to charge?
Latest Tesla Time News conjecture is that Cyber Truck will be able to full charge in less than 10 minutes! Check it out!
What a good intro! You are the best guys!
i love the intro to this haha. great acting guys
Nice creative intro. 👌
For a confirmation of this charging test and make it more scientific, do it again on the same time of the day and start with the Rivian. Then continue with the Ford but start at the same time that the Rivian started at the previous test. Chose a similar day in term of weather.
Thanks "Now You Know". Great experiment.
How fast will cyber truck charge.? In the next few years. Now that its so far behind I wounder if they will make some upgrades.
Best opening of all time
Ford and GM could build out a charging network at any time, but they won’t because it would give too much credit to EVs future.
Remember that the EA network was built out because of Diesel Gate. In fact the entire company was created because of that. Basically the company doesn't want to exist so it has no incentive to optimize. Just my take.
@@ryanmarbut1035
But now they're between a rock and a hard place.
Enough cars to NEED the network, but huge investment to make it reliable (not to mention 5x the cost of a Tesla charger)
Unless my math is off, that was about 15 cents/Kw. Wow, that’s pretty reasonable compared to what I’ve paid at superchargers.
Always plug the car in first at electrify america and then initiate the app or put in a credit card.
Great intro. I loved
best opening ever
My Spark EV, with its 19kw battery, costs around $2 at Electrify America. :D
Different chargers would have introduced another variable - are both chargers operating the same?
Why not use crowd sourced data?
You needed one more EV pickup for the full “The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly”
The Cybertruck is not available before end of next year
The bitterness with EA is strong. 😂
The bitterness with EA is *Justified*
With it saying charging error, did you end up having to pay for it? Everyone wins then.
That intro was perfect 🤣🤣
Also looks like you added more kWh to the rivian than the ford regardless of the percentage it was at
How do you charge a Tesla, can we see a video on that?
Rivian battery could have also cooled down sitting there, nobody has got charging right except for Tesla.
I only tried using Electrify Am. Once, it was a total fail as it started to charge and 10 min later stopped charging and when I returned to my vehicle I only had a 10 minute charge. So unreliable!
Excellent intro, guys :)
How much did these cost and how many mile per dollar
Imagine being a car guy and spending your time talking about the gas station and how long you spent there.
The Hare won by a Hair!
I absolutely think the charger was the stumbling block for this test.
I guess that the Ford battery was warmer than the rivian as you had driven 50 miles to get there. The rivian had been sitting waiting to charge.
Your intro made me laugh!
sound like the battery is overheated on the Rivian
Love the opening scene 😅
Kamehameha!!!!!!!!
I am the editor and I would be lying if I said DBZ wasn't my inspiration 🤣