286 retro pc from heaven or hell ? (part 1)
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- Опубліковано 16 жов 2024
- Hi, I thought I'd do a quick video on this 286, assuming it would be a breeze to have it up and running but ..... as with most things retro, things didn't turn out to be that simple
Issues with PSUs, mainboard, expansion cards turned this into a 2 part video
Loving these type of desktop cases, I've set out to get it up and running again completely.
For part 2 of this series see • 286 retro pc from heav...
If you're interested in failing PSUs, blown capacitors, and the sheer pain and/or joy in getting this machine up and running again, be sure to take a look.
Can I just say thankyou for this video. I recently acquired a 386 in a large joblot that would instantly turn off and by some luck had only seen this video some days before. I saw straight away that the caps near the power connector had blown and was able to replace them and now have a fully working 386 in amazing condition (Desktop and CRT both in original delivery boxes).
This looks like my first computer! I built it myself in 1988 from spare parts I got from upgrading other peoples machines! I only had 1mb of ram but was able to run windows 3 using real mode!
I’d had that exact same system. The 286 12 amd/intel chip still blows peoples minds today.
Yeah ... have a thing for these old 286 computers :) have an ibm 5170 from 1984 and an acer 286 from 1991. All using the intel 286 cpu.
RetroSpector78 have not had mine since I upgraded in about 93 Probably should kept it.
Those measured 10v is because there is not load in the 5v rail. Some psu generate 12v as a derivative in the transformer . Rectified and filter. But that derivative assume that 5v has load. So the transformer is switched at a minimun required frequency. But if no load on 5v and psu is regulating on 5v. No load means that the circuit will "click" the transformer just few times per second enough to maintain 5v. That means it is not enought "clicks" at primary side of the switching transformer to fill up to 12v on the derivative.
Thx for the in-depth info ... should have known at the time this was load related :) Was able to "save" a whole bunch of AT PSUs that I thought were dead because I didn't test them properly.
@@RetroSpector78 And with "derivative" I mean (the spanish: "devanado" word) I mean about a "side secondary winding" that can be or can not be in serie with the secondary winding for producing 5v.
The old full hight desktop case form factor, from the 80's, are my favorite as well. No matter if that is an AT system or an Amiga 2000. As long as it is the basic layout of board in the bottom and cards vertically mounted, then I am a happy champ.
brostenen yeah ... easy to perform maintenance on. They do take up some extra shelf space :)
@@RetroSpector78 Well... It does take up shelf space, yet they are easy to stack, if you want multiple vintage machines hooked up on the desk. 😁
What a beauty! Some guys live for old classic cars, but not a technogeek like me.
some power supplies need a minimum load on them or they just shut off automatically
That indeed was the case here. More on that and more in the upcoming part 2.
@@RetroSpector78 there are commercially available testers what will give you a pass or fail on a power supply, the other way you can test them is to put a 12v 10W lamp on each rail to give the supply its minimum load and do your same voltage tests with the multi meter. These old power supplies only monitor one rail for the regulation on all the rails.
It's still good practice to give the inside of the PSU a look to see if there aren't any damaged components or Rifa caps that may blow.
That's true. Though it's usually a good idea to just replace those old PSU's. You can use a modern ATX PSU with an AT adapter to power these old PC's. It's risky to use old PSU's, as they may be on their last legs and may just take out all of your components with it.
@@TheSeanUhTron I usually rebuild the old AT psu and make sure I use good parts. That is my preference, but sometimes I will use an ATX system as well.
That Power Supply is probably working fine. Many of these old type PSUs have a crowbar circuit that creates a short if the voltage rises above 5.2V which, without load, it does rather quickly. I too have some of them. And mine also spin up after powering off. So attach a dummy load before tossing that PSU. Betcha it works just fine.
You should check out part 2 ;) it was indeed load related (stupid of me not to test that) But I’ve learned my lesson , that’s what it’s all about I guess.
congratulations my friend!
very cool explanations and images, miss the old days !!
voltage selector switch switched to 220V is right ? or do you need 110V ? i don't know in witch part of the world you live ^^
Belgium. So 220v.
He’s in North Korea so he needs a five prong 170v power supply
I just got a 286 and it has the exact same problems. Thank you for this
I once had a Gateway 286 that oddly enough had Quadtel SVGA on board and the actual IBM PC/AT.
I LOVE that case! I could actually see it being retro-fitted with an Amiga 1200 . (I mean if your gonna go retro :-) -Larry
The 286 is retro enough :) Lucky enough to own an Amiga 1200 but never thought about putting it in a desktop case. Like the sleek look of the amiga 1200 case.
Great video, what brand the cabinet are? I've the same but a harris procesor
Always thought it was mental putting AC with large current and voltage in plastic switch mechanisms that go brittle over time. Then short out on the impressively thick and sharp sheet metal sometimes electrocuting the lucky owner when it does fault.. such a bad design but that’s what we had to work with back then! Praise ATX!
I have not seen Part 2 yet, but I noticed the PSU had the input voltage selector set to use 220 VAC. I'm assuming that is normal for your location?
Correct. I live in Belgium so 220v is the standard.
@@RetroSpector78 Good! I've had experience with devices people plugged into a 220 VAC cord when it was set to expect 110 VAC, was not a good combination! Usually just blew a fuse in the device, but one CRT display did not survive it. 😯
Thanks for the update, I'll be gradually working my way through more of your videos.
@@bobblum5973 yeah bad things can happen with AC .... was wiring up an old case with AT power button once and got 2 wires wrong ... not a nice sound. Luckily only the main circuit breaker tripped ... Really appreciate your comments and hope you enjoy the rest of the videos. Feel free to share them and spread the word ... lots of cool content still coming up.
You should never ever (!) run an old switching mode power supply without load.
Your original PSU is probably fine, it just seems to go into protection due to the unloaded 5V rail. Try it again with anything connected, even a floppy drive might work.
Yes that was the case (wait for part 2 for the full story) .... its funny as I've tested over a dozen AT power supplies without load and I always got a voltage reading on them. This was a first. I knew really old XT PSUs needed load to start but never figured that some of these "newer" PSUs would also need load. Didn't want to attach something for fear of shorting something.
@@RetroSpector78 Then you've just been lucky ;)
Nearly all of my AT-style PSUs won't run without load. Technically, you could even damage it by running it unloaded. It all depends on the switching frequency. If the frequency is rather low, like with older PSUs, the output voltage immediately rises to above 5V before shutting down. More modern PSUs have a small load resistor to mitigate that problem.
If you fear blowing up something, just use a 6V light bulb, e.g. from a bike lamp, that should suffice as a load. Normally, I just use a broken hard disk.
I have a PSU that for now I never used which has a low +12V line when there's no load (I tested it with nothing and I had 10V), but oddly enough, the more load it has, the highest the voltage gets. I plugged one HDD and it raised to 11-ishV and with two hdds it raised to 11.9V
So yeah, interesting behavior.
I like the case it's in by the way, it's a cool 90's case and the front de-yellowed nicely (appart from one part), so I'll reassemble the whole thing and use it soon I guess
@@DxDeksor Will get it in better shape ... but more stuff to come in part 2 before we arrive to that ... more exploding caps to come....
@@RetroSpector78 Yay !!!
Well that was to be expected, they rarely die alone.
Sometime ago, I was fixing a 486 motherboard with some bad traces, and I got trolled by the caps. I remember nearly fixing it one evening, and since it was starting to get late, I stopped for the night. The mobo was starting up fine at that time. The next day, I'm done fixing it, so I want to test if the board POSTS ... and nothing happens.
The caps nearby the power plug got shorted in a single night x)
Also, the other day I was attempting to fix a very corroded mobo (unsuccessfully unfortunately) and one cap blew up in my face :( Thankfully it reached my lip, not my eye, thes things can be serious trouble x)
Ahhh the nostalgia... This reminds me when i was about 12 or 13 years old my parents bought me a similar PC because of my good grades at school the only difference it did not have a hard drive only 2 floppy drives i used to boot ms-dos from the 360kb floppy and play games like monkey island & testdrive on the 720kb if i remember correctly... it was great!
I seen there was a fuse in that power supply, did you check that it wasn't blown ?
wouldn't surprise me if this old computer was at some point repurposed for a school or library as a hand-e-down machine, then like what always happened with these old machines, sometime in the late 90s one of the caps explodes, the entire system gets bricked by said explosion's effects on everything and it winded up getting thrown in the "to be repaired" pile, was forgotten about and ended up on online auction or something years later.
Those tantilums on the power input are not actually needed for operation. If they blow, they can be safely removed without issue. If you use a newer atx psu with converter, they are not needed at all, as the PSU will have much better filtering.
How to clean yellow stain from plastic on an old computer?What do you use?It won't go off even with abrassive toilet cleaners nor vinegar...
Would this motherboard support the fastest 286 CPU the 25MHz Harris? You would need a 50 MHz crystal. I'm still looking for that kind of motherboard.
a 286 was the first pc I ever used, played packman on it :)
Try to use your soldering iron more flat. The bigger the contact surface, the better the heat transfer to the solderjoint!I used to slightly bend my solder tips so i can achieve this easier.
Thx for the tip (no pun intended) ... it's a crappy iron I sometimes use on my desk here cause I don't have a lot of room and the desk is used (not) for retro computing :)
Hi, i had the same casing design in 1995, but it was 486dx2 66mhz.
Yeah... the great about cases like this is that they can house anything from a 286 all the way up to a pentium.
@@RetroSpector78 but somebody stole that pc in 1999. I miss that pc till now :-(
This is the same case that I had for my very first PC. I would love to get another... wish I knew what happened to that one.
I feel like the 286 has an identity crisis in the vintage computing scene. It's not anywhere near a 386 but head over heels better than the 8086...
If you are taking the time to remove those ancient capacitors, why not just replace them with modern / dependable capacitors?
Umm, if I recall correctly, on some very early interview of Linus Torvalds he said 286 was the computer which inspired him to make his own kernel and OS. Or maybe that's an early urban legend.
Is that a Mitsumi-made OEM case? Looks a lot like the german Vobis Highscreen cases of the day.
why dont you use an ATX psu with AT adapter? instead of old unsafe AT..
i'd love to get a case like this and put some more modern parts in it.
ATX however since you're not going to have an easy time finding a board for an AT case. You can still buy them off Newegg (the ATX), the grey/black version however.
People with no skillset always think its only capacitors that can go bad
N Gauge England -Synthematix- yep because in old hardware like this it is generally true that the electrolyte goes bad or they dry out with age. It was also cringe watching them work on large caps without mentioning to at least attempt to discharge them..
@@azzajohnson2123 Mate, one mistake and they can kill, especially in power supplies they can and will hold 240v
I’d really appreciate if you mention not to believe the capacitor saying, and put it to bed.
They don’t always go bad, and I’m genuinely proud of you for checking each one... what you’ll find that it is intact it’s either a shorted tant on the mobo or no load connected
It might also be reverse diodes shorting and tripping over current
The things is that in retro computing, besides ram chips, the caps are usually the prime suspects. But here it was a stupid mistake on my part, not putting any load on the psu. So in that respect going through the removal / verifying / reinserting all the caps was a good reminder never to test a psu without load again.
Вот значит кто был всему виной - коротил конденсатор! Лайк ))
Finds a hercules card. Yessssssssssssss
I had a ST-124 once...
Used it for target practice out back lol
im searching for a good cap tester online what can you pref. what is still buyable on amazon? don't know waht is good, shouldn'T be to expensive I use it very rarely.
Oh wow. You can call me dumb, but for a bit I thought the opening showing off the case was CGI, not video. Didn't take too long for that illusion to pass, but it was there for a few magical moments.
haha .... nice....I've been around these old machines for too long I guess :) It's when I see new PCs nowadays that I think I'm in some kind of sci-fi movie.
I'm working on a similar board for a 286 build right now
Cool ... subscribed to your channel ... seems you've got an impressive an well organised collection !
how do you get into the cmos setup without pulling the battery?
This one has a standard bios where you just need to press del to enter.
@@RetroSpector78 yeah my 386 doesn't for some reason I can only seem to get into the bios when the battery is dead
Retro PCs are not nightmares. It's good to keep them so the young gamers of this or future generations will know that our current future builds are not made from... Wizards, witches, magics, from wonder world or such.
In short, if anyone have such retro PCs KEEP THEM!
i wish i could get something old like this i always go pc hunting (scavenging trough junkpiles to recover pcs and repair them) and i found one pc that was REALLY old i think its a siemens nixdorf pcd h5 on the cpu socket it says socked 5 i cant remove the heatsink from the cpu because its stuck
God, good ol' days....
ISA Bus, I/O card, 5 inch FDD, MS-DOS HIMEM.SYS, It is NOT available EMM386, These are nostalgic.
Hi ware did you buy your ESR meter
Think I got it from RS Components
286 was my first PC
You can get atx to at adapters for replacing dead at psus
You need a load on that power supply. Plug it into a hard drive and it'll fire up.
Seeing you leave a beige box out in the sun is kinda cringeworthy, but other than that great content as always
7:55 ooooh yes, I once got electrocuted with such an AT style power switch. Don’t want to experience this again.
hey wtf eindelijk finaly
scroeffie hehe... will need a part 2 to get it to its former glory :)
scroeffie but still remains a nice looking 286 and very happy with it
WOW!
I give you "ahead" ...... card she said
You really should retro bright the case.
Perhaps ... this one is not half bad actually ... have some PCs that are in a lot worse shape.
@@RetroSpector78 but this case is very nice, and would be better after retro bright. I really love those old cases that you show.
Be careful with those big ones they can throw you
If you could find an Epox 68-LXR you would find the big upgrade to a Pentium II 333MHz!
nice English for French speaking person) or not French?
Dutch. (Belgium)
Nice isa graphics
😇📼😊😎excellent
dont sell it please keep it in your collection :)
I promise ... you should become a gold sponsor and provide me with some monthly goodies to fix / review / show off :)
4:20 power supply is set to 220v input so if you just give it 110v it's going to act like it did. No need to desolder parts if you know what you're doing.
In europe we use 220v. And the fact it was not starting was load related (as explained in part 2).
The power supply is set for 220 volt - is that what you needed?
Yeah he's not the sharpest knife in the drawer.
Yes. That's the correct voltage in his country.
7:50 really? That's the power supply? Looks more like a switch. You're just guessing what shit is right??
Meant to say power supply switch ... my apologies. Think most of my viewers are aware that this is not a psu after having them seeing me open one up.
I lived through all the computer era starting back in 1978. It was all a huge waste of time and money. Upgrades of hardware and software, networks operating manual as thick as the bible and printers that sounded like trains coming down the line. Im fucking tired of it all and I’m ready to go back to the stone age!
Oh no! The video was at 486 likes, I didn't spot it until I clicked Like myself. Now I've ruined it! :(
Well technically it is still a 286 :) but I’ll settle for 640, or 1024 also :)
The soldering job is just horrible.
WDC is Western Design. Sorry, somebody had to write this :)
Or Western Digital.
yes it's hell, i wouldn't want to deal with that hardware ever again!