This is the only video I found where someone really goes through the monopoly house + bolt-on eaves approach to allow for better air sealing. I saw this mentioned by Matt Risinger on his build but no details were provided. (or maybe I missed it) Thanks for going into detail here!
Matt Risinger's house is framed using cantilevered LVL boards screwed into the roof deck. Matt uses continuous foam on the roof deck to conceal the thickness of the LVLs. Then he installs another layer of sheathing on top of the insulation. It's really quite a bit different than this construction. I'm no engineer so I can only guess as to which method would support more weight. With this method it seems to me that you get more of a cantilever load towards the edge of the overhang and more of a shear load towards the wall whereas with Matt's house it's a cantilever load for the entire overhang. Matt's house is in Texas though, so no snow loads to consider.
Same, I saw Matt's eaves on his mono as well. I see a few vids of his eaves hanging out before framing them up. I wonder if we did indeed miss his episode on how he did his eaves. ONe video on YT showed how using the roof rain screen assembly, 2x4's, extended out over the mono envelope was done and the eaves were built with that ledger board like done in this one. That is what I plan to do and that way there will not be a "seam" to deal with at least on those sides of the house, where the water will run into a rain gutter. 👍🇨🇦🍁
Monopoly framing isn’t just one style. You can run eves straight out while doing the framing instead of framing eves after the whole building is built and then just wrapping the eves with osb and your house wrap. Then tape and flash every single thing on it. Personally I run zip wall from the roof down the side of the eve. Under the eve and down the wall and I tape and liquid flash every crack on the house and I have pushed out a very very low cfm buy just doing that. I don’t know what cfm this person got from this house but I can promise you mine was close if not better.
Steve Baczek, architect, showed a way for the air sealing rafter issue as far as interior air sealing and Continuity. It is in his hilltop house build video. To keep the exterior sheathing continued air tight to the ceiling of any of the rooms he added a 16 foot wide long piece of plywood or zip sheathing, whatever your sheathing is, and placed it on the Top plate for the rafters to rest on.. It is like a 3rd top plate. You then tape the wall sheathing to the edge of the incoming flat 16 inch for air tightness. What the rest of the 16 inch wide piece is used for in the inside, on the ceiling, is to acoustical seal it to the ceiling drywall! The remaining bit of the 16 inch wide piece is like a surface to help get the drywall attached better, and you get air sealing continuity from wall to ceiling as well. Super smart! Thank you for sharing and you are doing a great job....and your explain things so well....a talent this viewer appreciates. ☺️ 👍💯 🙏🇨🇦
So helpful and the detail and keeping it honest about what you would do differently. We also appreciate your "delivery", organization and the way you "speak" to your viewers. IT is like you are the friendly neighbour next door.☺🇨🇦🍁
Great discussion and demonstration of the various steps. We did this on my home in 2012 in order to create "fake" exposed rafter tails, which are stained 4x6 lumber about 16" long. It worked fine in the end and looks amazing, but I agree, it is a lot of extra work. I've since built a few other buildings with traditional overhangs using rafters, and it's so much easier. Anyone who wants to attempt this also needs to think about snow loads and wind uplift loads on the eaves and overhangs, which can be substantial.
Excellent video. Definitely watch until the end to make sure you listen to the advice. I'm very appreciative of the videos out there that explain something that is complex... need more of those. Especially if you're caught in a situation like this. Recapping some issues: reverse lap on the roof paper, strength of eves (stiffened by the return board however!), and lots of extra work (compared to just having the rafters (or trusses) do this extension for you.
I LOVE how thorough, honest, and concise you are, sir. Being in the middle of a "chainsaw retrofit", as Dr. Lstiburek calls it, I was quite sad to hear you didn't feel that it was worth it in the end, but I so appreciate your insight and transparency. I raise my glass to folks like you going the extra mile in the name of good building science practice! :D
I dont think a contractor would ever want to deal with this. Id they did except.. You would be wise to watch closely. Also.. Not sure how needed the butyl tape is.. When roofers are going to penetrate with a million nails.. And not care about the debri as they mash it into the underlayment with boots. Very interesting idea though. All we can do is try.. And fail or succeed. And learn from things.
Thinking about adding overhang and was told no more than 15" with the bolt on ladder type, but 24" with 2x4 rafter outriggers screwed to all truss tops. What a pita either way, but the outriggers almost sound easier after watching this. Plus would give a additional 3-1/2" space to play with..
Thanks I have been going back and forth over how to engineer my overhangs on a sealed house. After many different videos I feel confident in how to address this feature.
Wow! Surprise ending Corbett! Thanks for the honesty. I haven't tried either but I can certainly see your point that slapping some more tape and caulk would be easier than that whole eave process. Looks nice though. Good job!
Although brevity is NOT his strong suit, this has provided me with exactly the kind of education on adding a soffit I needed for my application. Thank you for posting.
I'm surprised you didn't bevel the top edge of the fascia! Very cool. This concept is new to me and makes total sense. One of the reasons why I won't design overhangs again is for easier air sealing, but this gives another option. Thank you for posting.
Great information. I am trying to add eaves on my mobile home. It has a pitched roof but unfortunately when it was built in 1987 the building codes allowed them to barely come off the wall enough just to add flashing. I have already had to replace some of the siding. I have looked on a number of UA-cam videos and this is one of the best ones.
Thank you for the update Corbett! You convinced me of the "bolt-on" overhangs, but your point of air sealing being the lesser evil is well taken. Keep up the good work! We are in the planning stages of building a house and your videos have been invaluable!
At the beginning of the build playlist, I was very interested in this approach to "monopoly framing." Your "would I do it again" comment was priceless to me. I've heard Matt Risinger say the way he approached the problem on his personal house was too much work. My thought is to wrap the WRB sheathing up the wall, around the eave, and up the roof. This means the eave is inside the conditioned envelope, so it has to be insulated. I'm hoping to find a video from someone who has tried this approach and the IR , BDT diagnostics to see if the approach works.
Thank you, I have a porch roof that does not have any eves on the rake and the siding of course is being ruined. This looks like a good solution. Thank you for the framing detail.
I love the concept. but after reviewing with my framer (I'm planing to build new home) the cost factor dramatically increases vs a truss with overhang included...... I admire how many steps you are going through to achieve your desired results !!
I think everyone forgets that you're overhang design was approved by your engineer. I know that your box approach addressed my own concern of how to transition from roof rafters to side wall sealing. Nice simple solution. I have a question concerning how did you terminate the core vent of the lower roof as it met the short vertical wall under your upper over hang? I am suspecting you continued the air gap from the lower roof to flow into the air gap of the short vertical wall and then terminated with core vent under the soffit of the upper roof. Thanks for all your help.
I watched this video with interest and found your last point to be the most valuable - "Would you do this again?" I was considering a design where a full width hipped roof front porch that would extend ~18-24" beyond either side and would run an overhang down either side to both create a horizontal detail for aesthetics as well as bringing lower level windows under an overhang. Scabbing it outside of external insulation/WRB seems like it would be structurally challenging and inefficient. I think there is more flexibility to maintain continuity of the control layers encompassing the structure than to manage a two part structure intersected by those control layers.
Use structural/framing screws to anchor the eave rafters from behind the ledger for increase strength, or use hangers. Especially if you have snow load.
Thanks. I was searching for a video like this. I'm replacing a roof on an old barn and will be building eves like this. It currently has no eves and cant sister up the rafters(that are 5 inch pine trees). This gave me a few good ideas.
Having a difficult time comprehending why you're doing it this way. That's a lot different than the way it's normally done in northern climates - or different than how it used to be done. The rafters would normally extend over the walls and create the eaves. There would also be enough space for air to enter the attic via the soffit; there would be vents in the roof to allow the air to circulate and escape. The insulation would be what kept the hot air/cold air out. I dunno - maybe they do it like this in northern climes now too? It doesn't seem as structurally sound as having the rafters be part of the eaves and soffits.
I have been waiting for this video, and much appreciated that you share your work and thoughts!! Your house looks rock solid. After watching your video, I am going to build overhang extended from roof rafters. Thanks so much!
I have seen many people do it that way (mainly on UA-cam), but as a framer i much more prefer the structure of your overhang to come directly from the roof truss system for maximum strength and stability. It may be a pain later to notch the wall sheathing and let it come up to your roof sheathing (or whatever way you decide to air seal), but structurally i think its worth it. All in all great video, thanks for the information. p.s. how do you think you would have accomplished the air sealing if having used the trusses for your eve overhang?
roger mathews you are 100% correct. This is a baby thrown out with the bath water detail. A flaw of the exterior self adhered membrane acting as an air barrier. This system (membrane) requires duct taped on eaves. It’s a “solution” creating a problem. Wacky detail.
I must disagree with the stability comment. In my opinion, using the methods described here, I feel it would be more than capable of withstanding more load than it would ever see. . I think this would be perfectly fine considering the potential gain in air sealing. To me, as long as its strong enough to suit it's purpose, why not usethis method if it's going to be better in terms of efficiency.
@@Cake41579 yes given the benefit of airsealing it is easier this way, however as the homeowner explained in the video he did prefer a 36" overhang as opposed to the 24" that he got doing it this way, which really winds up around 18" after insulation/cladding. Therefore using the truss tails as your overhang is the best way from a structural standpoint to achieve that depth of overhang. However as a builder I must as that the more the truss manufacturer can do to help it makes everyone's life easier. If I have to come back as do some blocking between trusses for sealing, not really a big deal since the truss manufacturer saved me time and hassle building the overhangs.
Just because grandpa built one way doesn't mean we'll have to build like grandpa. Yes, I understand there's a break in the two structures but this method would be more than Capable of withstanding any load
I really enjoy your videos. Thank you. This one was very interesting. I got the most out of it during your end of video wrap-up. I will be remodeling my home next year.. I will add the two or three feet extra as part of the rafter system and not have to build up everything as you have done. Sage advice. Cheers John L Fairlawn Virginia USA
Great detail! I wonder if there would be a way to make these overhang "boxes" on the ground in lengths of 8' for example. Then lift them up and screw them into the wall. Often roof carpentry is easier to do on the ground than in the air, although of course in these case he has a convenient lower roof to work from.
Very useful! I’m an architect and designing a passive house for myself and have been wondering exactly this - is it easier to extend the structure and wrap the whole eave vs doing the eave as an tension beyond the weather barrier. Thank you for sharing your insights on best approach versus versus justifying the way you chose to build.
I wouldn't be comfortable with this in high snow load areas. I've built eaves similar to this on older homes originally without eaves. and it is difficult to avoid sagging years later. Hope yours are more resilient.
I have considered doing this. My thoughts were exactly what your conclusion was. Not worth the efforts. Especially when you’re building by yourself with my sons help a good bit of the time. I am going with the Zip system. Thanks for the video. Terry
I have a house w/o eaves so this is a promising approach. I'm wondering if using joist hangars might have made this technique a little sturdier (and possibly easier to install)? Great overview of your technique and structural details.
The top of the joist at the edge of the roof is in tension so that is the reason for the strap tie. The toe nails transfer the vertical shear force. So there are 2 forces to deal with - a bending moment and a shear force. The strap tension is the bending moment divided by the depth of the joist, or in this case probably safe to use the depth from sheathing to underside of eave.
The building products out there nowadays are amazing. I have never heard of flashing or window tape. It pays to shop around and learn new things. It might make your job easier or better. I noticed that you said it was dumb to build a building without eaves. I don't understand why people do this. Sometimes I will see a utility shed or a garage without eaves and it looks so corny.
Great video Corbett! With a traditional rafters and allowing for longer eaves how do you seal that area still allowing for air tight home? Not sure if its a quick answer. Maybe you have done a video on this already, if not can you make one? Thanks!
I like the idea of a 3 foot eve for sure! I still think it will allow exterior insulation. To deal with the sealing side of things, spray foam insulation kits are available and would be a pretty cost-effective way of sealing the rafter “box” both interior & exterior…
Observation / Question - Wondering why your 30 inch straps to tie the roof to eave aren't simply installed underneath the roof membrane? lol I was asking this question before seeing the end of your video, the pain of doing it this way... Good video! but I would hate to do this, where you're not standing on another roof, or 2 stories up.
The secondary bad thing about 3 foot eaves is that it's a greater surface area for gusting wind. Your giving that wind more power to twerk the joinery that holds roof to wall, prematurely weakening both . Greater forces will be placed on the frames of your house. There's a fine line between protecting your house from rain and being defensive against high gusting winds.
This is the general comment that our roofer has put forward. However, if we also include external wall insulation near to the extended eve level, this would seem likely to significantly reduce effect of gusting wind, even if not joined to the eve per se. Does that sound reasonable?
@@HomePerformance Not a good idea. Different regions of the country have different building codes. All of that is based on different weather conditions. The experiece of builders contributes to those codes -- and should supersede a generalized application of "computer modeling
A structural engineer signs her liability into the plans because they are ALWAYS doing calculations for the specific location. I agree, generalizations are mostly meaningless.
Hi Corbett, your airtight eaves and butal tape is the best way of having airtight eaves, Hence, architects explaining this exact design. I live in a climate similar to yours.. 2020 I trusted a person to help me build my Skilliion Design conservatory. 3 mtrs x 5.4trs. Tinted black cleatlite corrugated roof 800 wide Which would mean the rafters would be spaced @ 400 right. The tosser questions my integrity when I explained the cleatlite is 800 wide. do the rafters should be @ 400. I should've sacked the person then and there. The external cladding is shadow clad 1200 wide which he had to cut extra lengths . All the framing joists and rafters the person Measured @ 450 Nothing lined up. The corrugated clearlite where it joins are not even sitting on the rafters. (Which I am now rectifying myself) When this person started working with me I explained I'm from a family of builders & had designed my build including the eaves like you have just completed. This person argued with me so much about my design re the eaves, in the end, I made a huge mistake . His way was better & quicker. BTW Not a builder. The biggest mistake ever, which of course I am now having to rectify due to the rafters and dwangs having gaps thus a very drafty conservatory.. It doesn't matter whether the special so called corrugated rubber stops. the wind, yeah right, not even. His exact words "You'll never be able to make this build air tight' I'm really annoyed I trusted another person to help me with my build which I'm now having to rectify myself. Hence, taking time out and refreshing myself about separate eaves. The overhang of the corrugated clearlite at a guess is about 150 - 200 if that. I honestly feel like getting my circular saw and zooming along the 5.4 mtrs overhang, and running butal tape along the 5.4 Mtrs then nailing a 6x1 barge boarf and build the correct soffit. The same soffeit design in your video That way there'll definately be no drafts I made a promise to myself, this is the 6th house which I bought in 2017 never would I ever trust another person to help me do any building whatsoever, given the ways this person did such a botch job.. Honestly, I cannot stress this enough The only way to build eaves so the eaves will not be drafty is the way you have shown people in your video. Drafty and lazy persons eaves is the new name for those types of eaves. I know because at present that's exactly what lazymans eaves are. DRAFTY I've recently bought a lifestyle property with a million dollar view. Well I will definitely be the only person building my cottage. No mistakes.😂 Keep doing your eaves the way you have done them in this video. Especially if you want your family to be warm. Well done! Keep up the good work. It's better to take a little longer and get it right Than build the rafters a quicker way and have it drafty as..........
Build a traditional roof and eaves and then after rough framing/sheathing and windows are in, just use aero barrier. Cheapest most efficient way to air seal a house
If you are using rigid insulation on top of the roof, another option is to set the roof tail on top main roof and back span it onto the roof by ~twice the overhang distance. This detail would be more applicable to warm attic / exterior rigid wall insulation where you are trying to minimize thermal bridging through the joist overhang. Doesn't get rid of the bridging entirely but but you can at least lap most of the wall rigid with roof rigid. This detail will probably become more prevalent in the future as we move to exterior insulation systems that are more effective at cutting thermal bridging - one of the big issues with conventional wood frame construction.
Idk why pressure treated lumber isn’t used in the most weather facing part of these applications. It costs very little extra. The regular lumber today is basically sap wood. I’ve seen the facia on new construction rot after just a few years.
I realize that nails are predominant in production housing but whenever I do repairs I like to use screws for superior holding retention. While air sealing is important, proper ventilation of wetting is important for long house life in its lumber. Wetting comes from rain, snow and just high humidity in the air.
Have you made a video or commented about how you would airseal if you simply extended your rafters? I'm curious to hear your thoughts as you are always so thorough yet concise. What would it simply be extend insulation under the soffits and around to the roof?
On my house I plan to do the "box" system but then lay some 2x4 on top, then OSB again, ice and water shield and then metal roof. In that way, you can overhang the 2x4 the length you want and create a vented roof. I thought this method would be easier for a rookie like me. I like your approach though.
what about running the plywood for the walls up to the top of the rafter. then install the roof plywood so it overhang as far as you want the eve to. then air seal. then install the eve framing.
I’m curious what you felt you needed to do to properly ventilate the new eaves to prevent moisture buildup in the cavities? I have a similar design on my home and the eaves were not vented nor insulated and we ended up getting condensation in the eaves and eventually black mold. What did you end up doing with the eaves to ensure how warm air does not condensate within those new cavities. Thanks.
I would have done it the same way except to have made the soffits part of the ventilation under the roof. One set of vertical running 2x4 battens layed on the flat and screwed through the mento (and sealed as you showed on the soffit sills) but with the soffit framing raised flush with the sealed roof so the vertical battens screw though that ( and glued with construction adhesive) from the top as well to add strength. Lay a horizontal set of battens screwed down over all that and then attach the metal roof. Detail the soffit venting and air flows right through the layers and out a ridge vent. If the roof leaks, it fails onto the mento membrane and drys to the exterior. That eliminates the reversed tape seam and simplify the assembly. It eliminates the additional plywood on the top of the soffit as well and that lightens the assembly and it is much better ventilated.
Home Performance you are getting racking strength through the horizontal battens one right at the drip edge and then you can place another 12 inches back. Those two members securely screwed through the underlying framing are quite strong. The fascia board also provides racking strength. Realistically it’s only a two foot extension. It’s pretty short from a racking perspective.
475 has a detail showing this with no plywood sheathing on the whole roof. That has issues in my mind for a home but doing this for the overhangs is very buildable. Note that post frame builders use no sheathing on huge spans with the metal roof fully on purlins with no issues. See some of RR buildings videos for that.
I have a similar design in mind. I would also put two layers of 1” eps foam with staggered seams 2 by sleepers and then build the eves to connect to the sleepers. With a second layer of osb over the sleepers or metal directly to the sleepers creating a vented eve and ridge. You have made a conditioned attic that requires fire protection over the insulation?
I am curious about your framing practices here. On the west coast of Canada we are required by code to allow venting via the perforated soffit in conjunction with insulation stops to insure the batt or blown in insulation does NOT block air flow from the soffit to the attic space cavity. The attic space is then allowed to vent via gable end vents as well as roof deck vents located near the peak. Is venting your attic space not a requirement in your locale?
Venting guidelines are, as I understand it, based on nothing but educated guesswork. They are meant to ventilate for moisture concerns, not heat, and since moisture can only get into your attic from above (leaks in roof) or below (air leakage from home), you can effectively remove the need for venting if you have no roof leaks (in this case, a continuous membrane + rain screen + 24 gauge standing seam metal roof) and no air connection to the house. We DO have vented soffit panels, as a redundant safety. Hope that makes sense.
@@HomePerformance Upon further educating myself, and re-watching your video here, I caught the fact you were using a rain screen raised panel for your roofing, you have effectively vented your roof deck. But even with best practices for living space air leakage protection, as soon as you start doing electrical and fixture installation you have compromised your air barrier. So are you planning on rigid insulation over your roof deck prior to rain screen to try and further eliminate condensation on the bottom of your OSB? I am fighting a condensation issue on my OSB underside at my place and am looking for best practices before opening up the can of worms. I have no doubt in my mind that my condensation problem is a direct result of air escapement as this is a 1950's house and as mentioned, we are to vent as per municipal and provincial building code. Maybe I need more vent capabilities or a power exhaust.
Yes, as pointed out in many of our vids, retrofitting existing homes can be more challenging than doing this from scratch as we are. Happy to help guide you if you need consultation, but sounds like you’re on the right track.
would love to do this to our build...the problem is how to find framers who are willing to do it for us (is it risky to have a framer who’s willing to do it but who’s never done it before)...or can i just have structural engineer specify it and the framers will do it? unfortunately i have no know-how to execute it myself so dependent on the trades
Bam, I’d never done it before either, so I think a framer would have an easier time than I did. As long as you have a detail for it showing EXACTLY how you want it, and they understand why you care.
Small problem. Working up from the bottom with your wrap/tape/whatever, you no longer have just a downward-facing overlap. You have a seam with an upward-facing edge that can trap water. Not a LOT of water, but it can still snag and hold small quantities, leading to standing water on the roof. Going to trust that you'll be doing something else to fix this situation, like tar paper.
Interesting design. I live in snow load country, I wonder how it would perform with the potential weight of a foot of wet snow and 60 mph wind? Will you be covering air sealing with the conventional overhang made from rafter tails elsewhere on your house?
I build in a area with heavy snow load, we don't (can't do this) here. Overhangs are 2 to 1. If you and 2 ft you build a ladder 2 ft out and 4 ft in. for rake and truss tails for eave overhangs. these would get ripped off
@@HomePerformance I've seen his video on it. I50lb per sq. ft. snowload here. Im doubting it would pass engineering stage... everything here has to have an engineering stamp, even residential.
Sitting mainly on the plane is the aim. 7:31 On-screen comments near the end of the video: 14:50 "So, your question might be, at this point, 'Would I [you] do this again?' My answer is, 'Probably not.'" 15:08 "I think that it would be better, to, first of all, have THREE foot eaves instead of two foot eaves, which we would do by just using the rafters that are coming down and taking them past the exterior wall. That WOULD mean that we have to do more work on the air sealing side which is what I was afraid of in the first place but frankly having seen the pain of doing work on structural things and knowing now what the pain of air sealing is I think that the pain of air sealing is a LOT LESS than the pain of getting all this extra lumber, installing all of it JUST RIGHT so that it's going to be strong so that its going to last a long time."
I think rafter tails would make this simpler and can still be sealed well. The taped seam seams like a catchpoint. Interesting video though. Edit... and now I see the end
My god , beautiful description and demo! Question: can we air seal with foam insulation from inside to compensate then irregularities in outside air seal if we extend the rafters to eaves.
Only makes sense if you insulate the walls and or the roof by using exterior insulation methods. If your not insulating the walls and or roof for a thermal break then go with overhang trusses not the flush ones.
I think you should have used 6" x 5/16" structural screws going from top of the rafter tail to the ledger with an angle (rafter tails predrilled to prevent splitting). When load is applied bottom corner will be in compression. The horizontal supports you sistered will greatly help there. But the top will want to separate. The structural screw would make sure that would not happen over time.
First of all this is the vid I have been looking for... how to add soffits/overhangs without thermal bridging back into the conditioned areas. My design will be no more than a 12" overhang with an open look. Another words not boxing it in but jig sawing a roundish rafter tail.. I know this is a 2 yr old vid but I am asking questions anyway!! Ha Ha! .... At the 8:50 mark your description of the roof sheathing is "normal roof sheathing" yet at the 14:48 mark the underside looks like it is foil backed.. Is it foiled backed???
Seems like a lot of penetrations (into protective barriers) that could be avoided. But I'm sure it's one of the cheapest ways to accomplish your goal. Check out how Matt Risinger build his overhangs after also sealing his roof edges. Certainly more $$$ but I don't know if it makes a huge difference on the overall price of the house
How will you vent this place? Seems like mold will be an issue. Our state requires everything to be super sealed...then we have to install fresh air vents because it’s too sealed...
Newb here. Having the strap on top of the eave? I don’t see how it would prevent sagging. Lateral force sure but it just seems to provide no vertical support. If support a concern, why not just add joist hangers?
I am planning this type of “bolt on” for my house but with ~4’ overhangs. What was your roof pitch? 4/12? I would imagine that a steeper pitch would allow for a larger overhang.
I'm highly impressed. For you to say that you wouldn't do that again kinda disappoints me. I can understand n doing this for a customer but when building something that I'm going to be living in and paying the utilities, I take ever precaution to be as air sealed end efficient we possibly. Yeah it might be slot of work and extra expense during construction but 20 years down the road when my home still performs ascwell as it did new, I say it's very much worth it. But that's just me. Very well explained by the e way.
So what keeps the wind from lifting the overhang and pivoting on the strap?looks like a couple of toenails? Wood has its strength in compression. Nails hold in shear. You're putting nails in tension. Right?
@@HomePerformance I very well could have, flu you know. Do you think that it is enough? Try lifting the facia up and see if anything moves? It's just odd to see it stuck on after the fact.
Great video and enthusiasm. Building products are driving me crazy though. Reinventing the wheel to charge $$$$ springs to mind . We pulled down our 1934 fir built home in 2014 to studs/rafters. Wool/paper insulation and board, not sheet siding/roof. No damp, mould or rot. Framing/joists 'petrified hard'. We roxul'd the whole lot, spray foam in attic roof space- 4" rafters! Our gas heating runs to $85 per month in the Pacific Northwest winters 1900 sqft. Sealing a house for longevity with paper, glue and tape would have the builders of our place turning in their graves.
I hear you, and your point is valid- for homes operated like the old days. Now, what we expect from our homes (especially this past year as we’re all shut inside them almost all the time) and how they work (heating, cooling, humidity control, ventilation all have been revolutionized since 1934) are vastly different. Bet you didn’t find much insulation in the original home either. Things change.
so you're not going to insulate the overhang... Here, in Canada, with cold weather, it could be an issue. You may end up with humidity condensing on the back side of the particle board, leading to rot that will propagate to your fascia. It's minimal, but latest studies proved it's better to insulate the interior back side of the overhang (I don't have links to prove that, but I read that multiple times). Of course, if you're not in a cold climate, you can pass :)
Toe-nailing seems so crude.. its easy to screw up and have the wood split, or not catch enough "meat". Your extra two nails in the middle aren't doing much because those top boards will tend to rotate about an axis going near the middle toe-nails. The top ones are most critical.
I'm not convinced that it's better to put on the membrane and seal to the wall before adding the overhangs. Wouldn't it be better if the membrane was continuous over the eave? You wouldn't need to trust your tape at all that way.
@@HomePerformance True, but regardless of support from a less-than-rigid bottom the fasteners are able to get so much more purchase with hangers than they are with a toe nail connection. Your assembly definitely looks rock solid now, but I see plenty of fences with panels toe nailed to posts that seem strong at first and begin to withdraw just a few years down the road. I just can't wrap my head around how this assembly will resist sagging after being subjected to years and years of withdrawal force, even with ring shank nails (which roughly double your resistance to withdrawal). Edit - Ok, I see you are in Atlanta. Probably not a whole lot of withdrawal force there! I am in MN where we tend to have significant withdrawal force half the year ;) Nice work!
Best of both worlds would have been to extend every other rafter out , every 4 ft. Would have dramatically increased the strength, No snow loading to speak of in Atlanta. Could have still done infill with the same method you used. As to the amount of air sealing needed . Liquid flash around the few cut outs on the sheathing. I was laughing thinking about when I was working in my teens at an auto shop. Mercedes.. My trainer said to me. There is the american way and there is the german way. The American scratches an itch from the front. The german will reach around thru his legs from the back. LOL I think you are taking the German way. Both get the job done. HUM????
@@HomePerformance As you commented it is already beyond complex, time consuming and the value of the time you expended along with materials needed. Interesting idea. Was laughing, looking, and thinking, hum Corbels and still a pain in the butt LOL
I like this solution. One extended rafter every 6ft would easily provide enough structure for a 2ft eave overhang. It would also allow for the eave rafters to be left exposed.
Yes, that is a big load. Especially for the rafter tails that are not continuous. It would be a different story if he extended the rafter tails to overhang 3'. But it would defeat his purpose.
Seen the results of breaking plywood like that , over the years it sags has no strength you could have done the same thing as far as enclosing the attic area while decking it correctly
Pretty sure you didn’t actually watch much of this video, but I’ll answer anyway. There is no tar paper here. And that tape is rated for 100 years. And we added a rain screen.
This is the only video I found where someone really goes through the monopoly house + bolt-on eaves approach to allow for better air sealing. I saw this mentioned by Matt Risinger on his build but no details were provided. (or maybe I missed it) Thanks for going into detail here!
Rock on Jeffrey, thanks for watching buddy
Matt Risinger's house is framed using cantilevered LVL boards screwed into the roof deck. Matt uses continuous foam on the roof deck to conceal the thickness of the LVLs. Then he installs another layer of sheathing on top of the insulation. It's really quite a bit different than this construction.
I'm no engineer so I can only guess as to which method would support more weight. With this method it seems to me that you get more of a cantilever load towards the edge of the overhang and more of a shear load towards the wall whereas with Matt's house it's a cantilever load for the entire overhang.
Matt's house is in Texas though, so no snow loads to consider.
Same, I saw Matt's eaves on his mono as well. I see a few vids of his eaves hanging out before framing them up. I wonder if we did indeed miss his episode
on how he did his eaves. ONe video on YT showed how using the roof rain screen assembly, 2x4's, extended out over the mono envelope was done and the
eaves were built with that ledger board like done in this one. That is what I plan to do and that way there will not be a "seam" to deal with at least on those sides of the house, where the water will run into a rain gutter. 👍🇨🇦🍁
Hey, I found it....hope it helps: Matt Risinger vid on eaves: ua-cam.com/video/yTbMVdmnNlw/v-deo.html
Monopoly framing isn’t just one style. You can run eves straight out while doing the framing instead of framing eves after the whole building is built and then just wrapping the eves with osb and your house wrap. Then tape and flash every single thing on it. Personally I run zip wall from the roof down the side of the eve. Under the eve and down the wall and I tape and liquid flash every crack on the house and I have pushed out a very very low cfm buy just doing that. I don’t know what cfm this person got from this house but I can promise you mine was close if not better.
Steve Baczek, architect, showed a way for the air sealing rafter issue as far as interior air sealing and Continuity. It is in his hilltop house build video. To keep the exterior sheathing continued air tight to the ceiling of any of the rooms he added a 16 foot wide long piece of plywood or zip sheathing, whatever your sheathing is, and placed it on the Top plate for the rafters to rest on.. It is like a 3rd top plate. You then tape the wall sheathing to the edge of the incoming flat 16 inch for air tightness.
What the rest of the 16 inch wide piece is used for in the inside, on the ceiling, is to acoustical seal it to the ceiling drywall! The remaining bit of the 16 inch wide piece is like a surface to help get the drywall attached better, and you get air sealing continuity from wall to ceiling as well. Super smart! Thank you for sharing and you are doing a great job....and your explain things so well....a talent this viewer appreciates. ☺️ 👍💯 🙏🇨🇦
Thanks Meg!
So helpful and the detail and keeping it honest about what you would do differently. We also appreciate your "delivery", organization and the way you "speak" to your viewers. IT is like you are the friendly neighbour next door.☺🇨🇦🍁
Great discussion and demonstration of the various steps. We did this on my home in 2012 in order to create "fake" exposed rafter tails, which are stained 4x6 lumber about 16" long. It worked fine in the end and looks amazing, but I agree, it is a lot of extra work. I've since built a few other buildings with traditional overhangs using rafters, and it's so much easier. Anyone who wants to attempt this also needs to think about snow loads and wind uplift loads on the eaves and overhangs, which can be substantial.
Excellent video. Definitely watch until the end to make sure you listen to the advice. I'm very appreciative of the videos out there that explain something that is complex... need more of those. Especially if you're caught in a situation like this. Recapping some issues: reverse lap on the roof paper, strength of eves (stiffened by the return board however!), and lots of extra work (compared to just having the rafters (or trusses) do this extension for you.
I LOVE how thorough, honest, and concise you are, sir. Being in the middle of a "chainsaw retrofit", as Dr. Lstiburek calls it, I was quite sad to hear you didn't feel that it was worth it in the end, but I so appreciate your insight and transparency. I raise my glass to folks like you going the extra mile in the name of good building science practice! :D
Thanks so much, Jonah! Glad you found us, and best of luck with your retrofit.
Matt Risinger calls this technique the "monopoly house". It makes sense to me, but I would never have thought of it myself.
I dont think a contractor would ever want to deal with this. Id they did except.. You would be wise to watch closely.
Also.. Not sure how needed the butyl tape is.. When roofers are going to penetrate with a million nails.. And not care about the debri as they mash it into the underlayment with boots.
Very interesting idea though. All we can do is try.. And fail or succeed. And learn from things.
Metal roof, not shingles FYI @TurboFlush
Thinking about adding overhang and was told no more than 15" with the bolt on ladder type, but 24" with 2x4 rafter outriggers screwed to all truss tops. What a pita either way, but the outriggers almost sound easier after watching this. Plus would give a additional 3-1/2" space to play with..
Outriggers are far better, faster, stronger. You can add on a vertical ladder piece for soffit easily.
Thanks I have been going back and forth over how to engineer my overhangs on a sealed house.
After many different videos I feel confident in how to address this feature.
Save yourself time and money: tightly frame regular outriggers and use awrobarrier to air seal once you dry the building in. Problem solved.
Wow! Surprise ending Corbett! Thanks for the honesty. I haven't tried either but I can certainly see your point that slapping some more tape and caulk would be easier than that whole eave process. Looks nice though. Good job!
Thanks HD!
Although brevity is NOT his strong suit, this has provided me with exactly the kind of education on adding a soffit I needed for my application. Thank you for posting.
Haha, yes, I tend to go on at length. Thanks for hanging in there, glad it helped.
I just increased the playback speed. It was perfect! He’s thorough, which is good.
I'm surprised you didn't bevel the top edge of the fascia!
Very cool. This concept is new to me and makes total sense. One of the reasons why I won't design overhangs again is for easier air sealing, but this gives another option.
Thank you for posting.
Haha, always looking for an excuse to save a step out of the dozens we’ve added. Thanks for following buddy!
Great information. I am trying to add eaves on my mobile home. It has a pitched roof but unfortunately when it was built in 1987 the building codes allowed them to barely come off the wall enough just to add flashing. I have already had to replace some of the siding. I have looked on a number of UA-cam videos and this is one of the best ones.
Thank you for the update Corbett! You convinced me of the "bolt-on" overhangs, but your point of air sealing being the lesser evil is well taken. Keep up the good work! We are in the planning stages of building a house and your videos have been invaluable!
So great to hear, Andy
At the beginning of the build playlist, I was very interested in this approach to "monopoly framing." Your "would I do it again" comment was priceless to me. I've heard Matt Risinger say the way he approached the problem on his personal house was too much work. My thought is to wrap the WRB sheathing up the wall, around the eave, and up the roof. This means the eave is inside the conditioned envelope, so it has to be insulated. I'm hoping to find a video from someone who has tried this approach and the IR , BDT diagnostics to see if the approach works.
I was curious about this cuz i-joists require plenty of stiffeners & scabbed-on junk for the eaves, thanks for doing the experiment!!!
Thank you for the honest feedback at end...helps us to put things in perspective.
Thanks for waiting til the end for it, Mark!
I love over building stuff. This is an amazing channel!
Hey, thanks man!
Thank you, I have a porch roof that does not have any eves on the rake and the siding of course is being ruined. This looks like a good solution. Thank you for the framing detail.
👌🏽
I love the concept. but after reviewing with my framer (I'm planing to build new home) the cost factor dramatically increases vs a truss with overhang included...... I admire how many steps you are going through to achieve your desired results !!
Thanks Gary- feasibility is a critical factor
I think everyone forgets that you're overhang design was approved by your engineer.
I know that your box approach addressed my own concern of how to transition from roof rafters to side wall sealing.
Nice simple solution.
I have a question concerning how did you terminate the core vent of the lower roof as it met the short vertical wall under your upper over hang? I am suspecting you continued the air gap from the lower roof to flow into the air gap of the short vertical wall and then terminated with core vent under the soffit of the upper roof.
Thanks for all your help.
Exactly, Adam, and thanks for watching
I watched this video with interest and found your last point to be the most valuable - "Would you do this again?" I was considering a design where a full width hipped roof front porch that would extend ~18-24" beyond either side and would run an overhang down either side to both create a horizontal detail for aesthetics as well as bringing lower level windows under an overhang. Scabbing it outside of external insulation/WRB seems like it would be structurally challenging and inefficient. I think there is more flexibility to maintain continuity of the control layers encompassing the structure than to manage a two part structure intersected by those control layers.
Really worthwhile break down of an area I am interested in and food for thought.
What’s your power bill like now that you have lived in the house for a few years?
Great video, and very timely for my project. And thanks for using the work Schmutz. ;-)
Use structural/framing screws to anchor the eave rafters from behind the ledger for increase strength, or use hangers. Especially if you have snow load.
Thanks. I was searching for a video like this. I'm replacing a roof on an old barn and will be building eves like this. It currently has no eves and cant sister up the rafters(that are 5 inch pine trees). This gave me a few good ideas.
Happy to hear it, Daniel, best of luck!
Having a difficult time comprehending why you're doing it this way. That's a lot different than the way it's normally done in northern climates - or different than how it used to be done. The rafters would normally extend over the walls and create the eaves. There would also be enough space for air to enter the attic via the soffit; there would be vents in the roof to allow the air to circulate and escape. The insulation would be what kept the hot air/cold air out. I dunno - maybe they do it like this in northern climes now too? It doesn't seem as structurally sound as having the rafters be part of the eaves and soffits.
I’m thinking the customer decided they wanted eves after the fact .
Thanks for showing us this as I was also entertaining this idea. Lots of work to make this functional, looks like I'll go a different route.
...but if you hit me over the head a few times, I'd probably try it again
I have been waiting for this video, and much appreciated that you share your work and thoughts!! Your house looks rock solid.
After watching your video, I am going to build overhang extended from roof rafters.
Thanks so much!
Mommy nu
Glad it helped, Haiyan!
I have seen many people do it that way (mainly on UA-cam), but as a framer i much more prefer the structure of your overhang to come directly from the roof truss system for maximum strength and stability. It may be a pain later to notch the wall sheathing and let it come up to your roof sheathing (or whatever way you decide to air seal), but structurally i think its worth it. All in all great video, thanks for the information.
p.s. how do you think you would have accomplished the air sealing if having used the trusses for your eve overhang?
Thanks for the comment, Roger. I would still have ended the enclosure at the wall, but blocked painstakingly in each I-joist instead.
roger mathews you are 100% correct. This is a baby thrown out with the bath water detail. A flaw of the exterior self adhered membrane acting as an air barrier. This system (membrane) requires duct taped on eaves. It’s a “solution” creating a problem. Wacky detail.
I must disagree with the stability comment. In my opinion, using the methods described here, I feel it would be more than capable of withstanding more load than it would ever see. . I think this would be perfectly fine considering the potential gain in air sealing. To me, as long as its strong enough to suit it's purpose, why not usethis method if it's going to be better in terms of efficiency.
@@Cake41579 yes given the benefit of airsealing it is easier this way, however as the homeowner explained in the video he did prefer a 36" overhang as opposed to the 24" that he got doing it this way, which really winds up around 18" after insulation/cladding. Therefore using the truss tails as your overhang is the best way from a structural standpoint to achieve that depth of overhang. However as a builder I must as that the more the truss manufacturer can do to help it makes everyone's life easier. If I have to come back as do some blocking between trusses for sealing, not really a big deal since the truss manufacturer saved me time and hassle building the overhangs.
Just because grandpa built one way doesn't mean we'll have to build like grandpa. Yes, I understand there's a break in the two structures but this method would be more than Capable of withstanding any load
love your enthusiasm , thank you Corbett
🥳
I really enjoy your videos. Thank you.
This one was very interesting.
I got the most out of it during your end of video wrap-up.
I will be remodeling my home next year.. I will add the two or three feet extra as part of the rafter system and not have to build up everything as you have done. Sage advice.
Cheers John L Fairlawn Virginia USA
Aw shucks, thanks for following John! Glad the vids are helpful to you.
Great detail! I wonder if there would be a way to make these overhang "boxes" on the ground in lengths of 8' for example. Then lift them up and screw them into the wall. Often roof carpentry is easier to do on the ground than in the air, although of course in these case he has a convenient lower roof to work from.
Very useful! I’m an architect and designing a passive house for myself and have been wondering exactly this - is it easier to extend the structure and wrap the whole eave vs doing the eave as an tension beyond the weather barrier. Thank you for sharing your insights on best approach versus versus justifying the way you chose to build.
So glad to’ve helped your process, Julia!
I wouldn't be comfortable with this in high snow load areas. I've built eaves similar to this on older homes originally without eaves. and it is difficult to avoid sagging years later. Hope yours are more resilient.
I hadn’t actually thought of wrapping the whole eave, but that makes a lot of sense. No need to cut around rafters.
I have considered doing this. My thoughts were exactly what your conclusion was. Not worth the efforts. Especially when you’re building by yourself with my sons help a good bit of the time. I am going with the Zip system. Thanks for the video.
Terry
8:52 I thought I was the only crazy person in the world to do that :) Glad to be not alone.
We should start a club
I have a house w/o eaves so this is a promising approach. I'm wondering if using joist hangars might have made this technique a little sturdier (and possibly easier to install)? Great overview of your technique and structural details.
Thanks Sam, and I asked the same thing, but the struc eng said no.
The top of the joist at the edge of the roof is in tension so that is the reason for the strap tie. The toe nails transfer the vertical shear force. So there are 2 forces to deal with - a bending moment and a shear force. The strap tension is the bending moment divided by the depth of the joist, or in this case probably safe to use the depth from sheathing to underside of eave.
The building products out there nowadays are amazing. I have never heard of flashing or window tape. It pays to shop around and learn new things. It might make your job easier or better. I noticed that you said it was dumb to build a building without eaves. I don't understand why people do this. Sometimes I will see a utility shed or a garage without eaves and it looks so corny.
Great video Corbett! With a traditional rafters and allowing for longer eaves how do you seal that area still allowing for air tight home? Not sure if its a quick answer. Maybe you have done a video on this already, if not can you make one? Thanks!
I like the idea of a 3 foot eve for sure! I still think it will allow exterior insulation. To deal with the sealing side of things, spray foam insulation kits are available and would be a pretty cost-effective way of sealing the rafter “box” both interior & exterior…
Observation / Question - Wondering why your 30 inch straps to tie the roof to eave aren't simply installed underneath the roof membrane? lol I was asking this question before seeing the end of your video, the pain of doing it this way... Good video! but I would hate to do this, where you're not standing on another roof, or 2 stories up.
The secondary bad thing about 3 foot eaves is that it's a greater surface area for gusting wind. Your giving that wind more power to twerk the joinery that holds roof to wall, prematurely weakening both . Greater forces will be placed on the frames of your house. There's a fine line between protecting your house from rain and being defensive against high gusting winds.
Exactly what the struc eng said 👨🏼🎓
This is the general comment that our roofer has put forward. However, if we also include external wall insulation near to the extended eve level, this would seem likely to significantly reduce effect of gusting wind, even if not joined to the eve per se. Does that sound reasonable?
I’d still trust the engineer’s computer modeling of actual wind mechanics over any builder’s general opinion. But different strokes.
@@HomePerformance Not a good idea. Different regions of the country have different building codes. All of that is based on different weather conditions. The experiece of builders contributes to those codes -- and should supersede a generalized application of "computer modeling
A structural engineer signs her liability into the plans because they are ALWAYS doing calculations for the specific location. I agree, generalizations are mostly meaningless.
Hi Corbett,
your airtight eaves and butal tape is the best way of having airtight eaves, Hence, architects explaining this exact design.
I live in a climate similar to yours..
2020
I trusted a person to help me build my Skilliion Design conservatory.
3 mtrs x 5.4trs.
Tinted black cleatlite corrugated roof 800 wide
Which would mean the rafters would be spaced
@ 400 right.
The tosser questions my integrity when I explained the cleatlite is 800 wide. do the rafters should be
@ 400.
I should've sacked the person then and there.
The external cladding is shadow clad
1200 wide
which he had to cut extra lengths .
All the framing joists and rafters the person Measured @ 450
Nothing lined up.
The corrugated clearlite where it joins are not even sitting on the rafters.
(Which I am now rectifying
myself)
When this person started working with me
I explained I'm from a family of builders & had designed my build including the eaves like you have just completed.
This person argued with me so much about my design re the eaves, in the end, I made a huge mistake .
His way was better & quicker. BTW Not a builder.
The biggest mistake ever, which of course I am now having to rectify due to the rafters and dwangs having gaps thus a very drafty conservatory..
It doesn't matter whether the special so called corrugated rubber
stops. the wind, yeah right, not even.
His exact words
"You'll never be able to make this build air tight'
I'm really annoyed I trusted another person to help me with my build which I'm now having to rectify myself.
Hence, taking time out and refreshing myself about separate eaves.
The overhang of the corrugated clearlite at a guess is about 150 - 200 if that.
I honestly feel like getting my circular saw and zooming along the
5.4 mtrs overhang, and running butal tape along the 5.4 Mtrs then nailing a 6x1 barge boarf and build the correct soffit.
The same soffeit design in your video
That way there'll definately be no drafts
I made a promise to myself, this is the 6th house which I bought in
2017 never would I ever trust another person to help me do any building whatsoever, given the ways this person did such a botch job..
Honestly, I cannot stress this enough
The only way to build eaves so the eaves will not be drafty is the way you have shown people in your video.
Drafty and lazy persons eaves is the new name for those types of eaves.
I know because at present that's exactly what lazymans eaves are.
DRAFTY
I've recently bought a lifestyle property with a million dollar view.
Well I will definitely be the only person building my cottage.
No mistakes.😂
Keep doing your eaves the way you have done them in this video.
Especially if you want your family to be warm.
Well done!
Keep up the good work.
It's better to take a little longer and get it right
Than build the rafters a
quicker way and have it drafty as..........
Sounds like a headache of an advrnture, Carol- keep pushing!
Build a traditional roof and eaves and then after rough framing/sheathing and windows are in, just use aero barrier. Cheapest most efficient way to air seal a house
This is great. Can someone point me in the direction for how to install overhangs on a post and beam frame with a 10/12 pitch?
If you are using rigid insulation on top of the roof, another option is to set the roof tail on top main roof and back span it onto the roof by ~twice the overhang distance. This detail would be more applicable to warm attic / exterior rigid wall insulation where you are trying to minimize thermal bridging through the joist overhang. Doesn't get rid of the bridging entirely but but you can at least lap most of the wall rigid with roof rigid. This detail will probably become more prevalent in the future as we move to exterior insulation systems that are more effective at cutting thermal bridging - one of the big issues with conventional wood frame construction.
Idk why pressure treated lumber isn’t used in the most weather facing part of these applications. It costs very little extra. The regular lumber today is basically sap wood. I’ve seen the facia on new construction rot after just a few years.
Great video. Very informative as I'm deciding what to do on my own home.
👍🏽👍🏽
I realize that nails are predominant in production housing but whenever I do repairs I like to use screws for superior holding retention. While air sealing is important, proper ventilation of wetting is important for long house life in its lumber. Wetting comes from rain, snow and just high humidity in the air.
Interestingly, structural nails and screws are made differently, and screws are in fact inferior in certain aspects
Have you made a video or commented about how you would airseal if you simply extended your rafters? I'm curious to hear your thoughts as you are always so thorough yet concise. What would it simply be extend insulation under the soffits and around to the roof?
I'll do a vid about it, since you asked!
On my house I plan to do the "box" system but then lay some 2x4 on top, then OSB again, ice and water shield and then metal roof. In that way, you can overhang the 2x4 the length you want and create a vented roof. I thought this method would be easier for a rookie like me. I like your approach though.
Cool Romain! Do it!
This seems like a great combination of techniques.
what about running the plywood for the walls up to the top of the rafter. then install the roof plywood so it overhang as far as you want the eve to. then air seal. then install the eve framing.
Why not finish the eaves first with the strapping, etc, and then apply the water barrier sheets to the entire structure with proper overlapping?
I’m curious what you felt you needed to do to properly ventilate the new eaves to prevent moisture buildup in the cavities? I have a similar design on my home and the eaves were not vented nor insulated and we ended up getting condensation in the eaves and eventually black mold. What did you end up doing with the eaves to ensure how warm air does not condensate within those new cavities. Thanks.
I would have done it the same way except to have made the soffits part of the ventilation under the roof. One set of vertical running 2x4 battens layed on the flat and screwed through the mento (and sealed as you showed on the soffit sills) but with the soffit framing raised flush with the sealed roof so the vertical battens screw though that ( and glued with construction adhesive) from the top as well to add strength. Lay a horizontal set of battens screwed down over all that and then attach the metal roof. Detail the soffit venting and air flows right through the layers and out a ridge vent. If the roof leaks, it fails onto the mento membrane and drys to the exterior. That eliminates the reversed tape seam and simplify the assembly. It eliminates the additional plywood on the top of the soffit as well and that lightens the assembly and it is much better ventilated.
Interesting- so your racking rigidity would be only provided by the roof itself?
Home Performance you are getting racking strength through the horizontal battens one right at the drip edge and then you can place another 12 inches back. Those two members securely screwed through the underlying framing are quite strong. The fascia board also provides racking strength. Realistically it’s only a two foot extension. It’s pretty short from a racking perspective.
475 has a detail showing this with no plywood sheathing on the whole roof. That has issues in my mind for a home but doing this for the overhangs is very buildable. Note that post frame builders use no sheathing on huge spans with the metal roof fully on purlins with no issues. See some of RR buildings videos for that.
I have a similar design in mind. I would also put two layers of 1” eps foam with staggered seams 2 by sleepers and then build the eves to connect to the sleepers. With a second layer of osb over the sleepers or metal directly to the sleepers creating a vented eve and ridge. You have made a conditioned attic that requires fire protection over the insulation?
No attic, just a vaulted ceiling.
I am curious about your framing practices here. On the west coast of Canada we are required by code to allow venting via the perforated soffit in conjunction with insulation stops to insure the batt or blown in insulation does NOT block air flow from the soffit to the attic space cavity. The attic space is then allowed to vent via gable end vents as well as roof deck vents located near the peak. Is venting your attic space not a requirement in your locale?
Venting guidelines are, as I understand it, based on nothing but educated guesswork. They are meant to ventilate for moisture concerns, not heat, and since moisture can only get into your attic from above (leaks in roof) or below (air leakage from home), you can effectively remove the need for venting if you have no roof leaks (in this case, a continuous membrane + rain screen + 24 gauge standing seam metal roof) and no air connection to the house. We DO have vented soffit panels, as a redundant safety. Hope that makes sense.
@@HomePerformance Upon further educating myself, and re-watching your video here, I caught the fact you were using a rain screen raised panel for your roofing, you have effectively vented your roof deck. But even with best practices for living space air leakage protection, as soon as you start doing electrical and fixture installation you have compromised your air barrier. So are you planning on rigid insulation over your roof deck prior to rain screen to try and further eliminate condensation on the bottom of your OSB?
I am fighting a condensation issue on my OSB underside at my place and am looking for best practices before opening up the can of worms. I have no doubt in my mind that my condensation problem is a direct result of air escapement as this is a 1950's house and as mentioned, we are to vent as per municipal and provincial building code. Maybe I need more vent capabilities or a power exhaust.
Yes, as pointed out in many of our vids, retrofitting existing homes can be more challenging than doing this from scratch as we are. Happy to help guide you if you need consultation, but sounds like you’re on the right track.
would love to do this to our build...the problem is how to find framers who are willing to do it for us (is it risky to have a framer who’s willing to do it but who’s never done it before)...or can i just have structural engineer specify it and the framers will do it? unfortunately i have no know-how to execute it myself so dependent on the trades
Bam, I’d never done it before either, so I think a framer would have an easier time than I did. As long as you have a detail for it showing EXACTLY how you want it, and they understand why you care.
You explain very well! Thank you.
Glad you found us, Ellen
Small problem.
Working up from the bottom with your wrap/tape/whatever, you no longer have just a downward-facing overlap.
You have a seam with an upward-facing edge that can trap water.
Not a LOT of water, but it can still snag and hold small quantities, leading to standing water on the roof.
Going to trust that you'll be doing something else to fix this situation, like tar paper.
Nope, that’s what the ventilating rain screen is for. Stay tuned.
Interesting design. I live in snow load country, I wonder how it would perform with the potential weight of a foot of wet snow and 60 mph wind? Will you be covering air sealing with the conventional overhang made from rafter tails elsewhere on your house?
This detail came from our struc eng firm for Atlanta, so I bet it would be different further north. But the bolt-on principle is the same.
I build in a area with heavy snow load, we don't (can't do this) here. Overhangs are 2 to 1. If you and 2 ft you build a ladder 2 ft out and 4 ft in. for rake and truss tails for eave overhangs. these would get ripped off
You guys should check out Matt Risinger’s design instead, might work for you.
@@HomePerformance I've seen his video on it. I50lb per sq. ft. snowload here. Im doubting it would pass engineering stage... everything here has to have an engineering stamp, even residential.
Interesting- but as I said at the end, I don’t actually think this is worth it in any climate.
Sitting mainly on the plane is the aim. 7:31
On-screen comments near the end of the video:
14:50 "So, your question might be, at this point, 'Would I [you] do this again?' My answer is, 'Probably not.'"
15:08 "I think that it would be better, to, first of all, have THREE foot eaves instead of two foot eaves, which we would do by just using the rafters that are coming down and taking them past the exterior wall. That WOULD mean that we have to do more work on the air sealing side which is what I was afraid of in the first place but frankly having seen the pain of doing work on structural things and knowing now what the pain of air sealing is I think that the pain of air sealing is a LOT LESS than the pain of getting all this extra lumber, installing all of it JUST RIGHT so that it's going to be strong so that its going to last a long time."
You're a gem, DF
I think rafter tails would make this simpler and can still be sealed well.
The taped seam seams like a catchpoint.
Interesting video though.
Edit... and now I see the end
My god , beautiful description and demo! Question: can we air seal with foam insulation from inside to compensate then irregularities in outside air seal if we extend the rafters to eaves.
Thanks so much for following! Yes, you could do that, but only where you find issues- use a blower door and infrared camera.
That's allot of support, nice job. any sagging?
No sagging, the structural engineer calc’d for it
Only makes sense if you insulate the walls and or the roof by using exterior insulation methods. If your not insulating the walls and or roof for a thermal break then go with overhang trusses not the flush ones.
I think you should have used 6" x 5/16" structural screws going from top of the rafter tail to the ledger with an angle (rafter tails predrilled to prevent splitting). When load is applied bottom corner will be in compression. The horizontal supports you sistered will greatly help there. But the top will want to separate. The structural screw would make sure that would not happen over time.
The metal straps are the tension component, are they not?
@@spruce_goose5169 I actually missed the part where he used the metal straps. If the engineered said it works than I can't argue with that.
Why not install the 30" strapping before the roof underlay?
First of all this is the vid I have been looking for... how to add soffits/overhangs without thermal bridging back into the conditioned areas. My design will be no more than a 12" overhang with an open look. Another words not boxing it in but jig sawing a roundish rafter tail.. I know this is a 2 yr old vid but I am asking questions anyway!! Ha Ha! .... At the 8:50 mark your description of the roof sheathing is "normal roof sheathing" yet at the 14:48 mark the underside looks like it is foil backed.. Is it foiled backed???
No worries my friend- it’s typ 7/16” osb and yes it does have a radiant barrier facing.
Seems like a lot of penetrations (into protective barriers) that could be avoided. But I'm sure it's one of the cheapest ways to accomplish your goal.
Check out how Matt Risinger build his overhangs after also sealing his roof edges. Certainly more $$$ but I don't know if it makes a huge difference on the overall price of the house
Yes, Matt's solution is much more advanced, but for a novice builder this was more feasible.
How will you vent this place? Seems like mold will be an issue. Our state requires everything to be super sealed...then we have to install fresh air vents because it’s too sealed...
If moisture can’t get in, no need to vent. But every layer in this is vapor-open anyway.
The answer to my problem. Great video
Great to hear, Robert! Thanks for following.
I imagine this roof detail would at least double one's labor cost. Is there a more budget friendly option?
Matt Risinger has one
Newb here. Having the strap on top of the eave? I don’t see how it would prevent sagging. Lateral force sure but it just seems to provide no vertical support. If support a concern, why not just add joist hangers?
Same principle as a suspension bridge I suppose- a fair amount of structural engineering is counterintuitive, I find
Is the 30" hurricane strap nailed onto the roof decking or rafter? How much does that make a difference to the structural aspect of bolt on eaves?
Nailed through both- very important
I am planning this type of “bolt on” for my house but with ~4’ overhangs. What was your roof pitch? 4/12? I would imagine that a steeper pitch would allow for a larger overhang.
Agreed. Mine is 3:12
Thanks!
I'm highly impressed. For you to say that you wouldn't do that again kinda disappoints me. I can understand n doing this for a customer but when building something that I'm going to be living in and paying the utilities, I take ever precaution to be as air sealed end efficient we possibly. Yeah it might be slot of work and extra expense during construction but 20 years down the road when my home still performs ascwell as it did new, I say it's very much worth it. But that's just me. Very well explained by the e way.
Thanks a lot, Casey- I may change my mind later, but I think there are other options here that would be more elegant.
So what keeps the wind from lifting the overhang and pivoting on the strap?looks like a couple of toenails? Wood has its strength in compression. Nails hold in shear. You're putting nails in tension. Right?
Maybe you missed the lag screws
@@HomePerformance I very well could have, flu you know. Do you think that it is enough? Try lifting the facia up and see if anything moves? It's just odd to see it stuck on after the fact.
Great video and enthusiasm. Building products are driving me crazy though. Reinventing the wheel to charge $$$$ springs to mind . We pulled down our 1934 fir built home in 2014 to studs/rafters. Wool/paper insulation and board, not sheet siding/roof. No damp, mould or rot. Framing/joists 'petrified hard'. We roxul'd the whole lot, spray foam in attic roof space- 4" rafters! Our gas heating runs to $85 per month in the Pacific Northwest winters 1900 sqft. Sealing a house for longevity with paper, glue and tape would have the builders of our place turning in their graves.
I hear you, and your point is valid- for homes operated like the old days. Now, what we expect from our homes (especially this past year as we’re all shut inside them almost all the time) and how they work (heating, cooling, humidity control, ventilation all have been revolutionized since 1934) are vastly different. Bet you didn’t find much insulation in the original home either. Things change.
Until they actually lived in a high efficiency home. Then, they'd think they'd died and gone to heaven...in this case, again.
How did you attach the eaves to the i joists for the lower roof?
Exactly the same
so you're not going to insulate the overhang... Here, in Canada, with cold weather, it could be an issue. You may end up with humidity condensing on the back side of the particle board, leading to rot that will propagate to your fascia. It's minimal, but latest studies proved it's better to insulate the interior back side of the overhang (I don't have links to prove that, but I read that multiple times). Of course, if you're not in a cold climate, you can pass :)
Whew
@@HomePerformance sorry didn't meant to be rude. It was more of a question, knowing if you were aware of this or not. Sorry again.
No worries, Sebastien- there certainly are things we’re doing for our climate that wouldn’t work in Canada!
If you continued the I Joists as your overhangs, how would you have air sealed it?
It would have been a real pain to cut plus-sign-shaped plywood blocks for every single bay, and then seal the edge with tape or caulk.
@@HomePerformance exactly what I was thinking! I think your solution was probably the best way of doing it.
Matt Risinger’s detail is better still
@@HomePerformance You know which video specifically?
No, but it’s in the playlist for his own fam’s new house
Toe-nailing seems so crude.. its easy to screw up and have the wood split, or not catch enough "meat". Your extra two nails in the middle aren't doing much because those top boards will tend to rotate about an axis going near the middle toe-nails. The top ones are most critical.
Specs from the struc eng, I’m just following them.
U should have used cdx plywood instead of osb, especially at the edge of a roof
I'm not convinced that it's better to put on the membrane and seal to the wall before adding the overhangs. Wouldn't it be better if the membrane was continuous over the eave? You wouldn't need to trust your tape at all that way.
How would you posibly air seal with the rafter tails still on?
Blocking, same as with the ceiling joists in an attached garage.
Can these eaves handle snow load?
They’re structurally engineered for Atlanta. NO, do not use this exact number of screws and dimensions of lumberfor a heavy snow region.
Honestly, there is a point of Diminishing returns, just add 4 more solar panels at a cost of $2k and skip the hoopla.
Seems like using sloped rafter hangers here is kind of a no brainer. Any reason they weren't considered?
You might not fasten the hanger to the block, and just hit the butt end of a rafter. Also, those hangers hinge at the bottom I believe.
@@HomePerformance True, but regardless of support from a less-than-rigid bottom the fasteners are able to get so much more purchase with hangers than they are with a toe nail connection. Your assembly definitely looks rock solid now, but I see plenty of fences with panels toe nailed to posts that seem strong at first and begin to withdraw just a few years down the road. I just can't wrap my head around how this assembly will resist sagging after being subjected to years and years of withdrawal force, even with ring shank nails (which roughly double your resistance to withdrawal). Edit - Ok, I see you are in Atlanta. Probably not a whole lot of withdrawal force there! I am in MN where we tend to have significant withdrawal force half the year ;) Nice work!
Can you please make your next house completely out of tape.
I’ll add it to my list
Shouldn't have to use shims, if you let the rafter plain into the facia like you're supposed to
That means beveling every top edge, Jeremy- ‘supposed to’ doesn’t compute for adults, just make your own informed choices.
Best of both worlds would have been to extend every other rafter out , every 4 ft. Would have dramatically increased the strength, No snow loading to speak of in Atlanta. Could have still done infill with the same method you used. As to the amount of air sealing needed . Liquid flash around the few cut outs on the sheathing. I was laughing thinking about when I was working in my teens at an auto shop. Mercedes.. My trainer said to me. There is the american way and there is the german way. The American scratches an itch from the front. The german will reach around thru his legs from the back. LOL I think you are taking the German way. Both get the job done. HUM????
Funny idea, Steve, but I think it’s more complex than just this way or that way.
@@HomePerformance As you commented it is already beyond complex, time consuming and the value of the time you expended along with materials needed. Interesting idea. Was laughing, looking, and thinking, hum Corbels and still a pain in the butt LOL
I like this solution. One extended rafter every 6ft would easily provide enough structure for a 2ft eave overhang. It would also allow for the eave rafters to be left exposed.
How many straps ? Every 4 feet ??
Depends on what your struct eng tells you. Ours was every 16”, every single joist.
3 ft eves are too heavy? I can see how a wind load would be greater but the weight is not much even with a snow load.
I hear you, but the structural engineer wouldn't budge
Yes, that is a big load. Especially for the rafter tails that are not continuous. It would be a different story if he extended the rafter tails to overhang 3'. But it would defeat his purpose.
Welp the ending was enough to stop me from doing this lol. Cool idea though.
Seen the results of breaking plywood like that , over the years it sags has no strength you could have done the same thing as far as enclosing the attic area while decking it correctly
Not sure you're familiar with the configuration of this home's enclosure, but I hear your concern
So basically you build a Saltbox home and Taped it up !
You can't overlap the roof now. More thought should have been given to original design.
Why would you pull up all the tar paper and lay it correctly cause that stupidit tape wont hold water forever
Pretty sure you didn’t actually watch much of this video, but I’ll answer anyway. There is no tar paper here. And that tape is rated for 100 years. And we added a rain screen.
Ferry renovator. That’s a first