Watched this & the stewmac video on this. Thank you for the info man. It was a big help installing the Klusons. I have a Gibson Les Paul Custom & the vintage gold waffle backs look so epic. I got extremely lucky and the washers didn’t leave any noticeable marks after I wipes the peg holes off 🙏
I didn't realize that the bushing sizes bother me so much until I got a hold of a 50s Original J-45 and wondered why the headstock just aesthetically looked so much better than I remember... Then I realized it was the bushing sizes! Gonna have to do this to my les paul now too lol
@@scod3908sadly it’s true. gotoh makes a pretty decent set of these vintage kluson-lookalikes, very smooth action, great mechanism, but the actual vintage design itself (with the slim post and narrower bushing) just struggles and still has the same issues.
I'm one of those guys who really doesn't mind the washer on the Grovers. Call it personal preference but I've round the Grovers are actually a nicer set than the stock Gibson/Klusons. I also see film of George Harrison and others, and they often upgraded to the Grover milk bottles. I have a 1981 Les Paul Standard that the tuning machines after all these years, are finally giving out. I'm going to replace them with the Grover vintage set, which look similar to the stock set that's already on there.
@@NathanSink If you see this . I am now waiting 2 weeks to polish things up before I attempt to attach the Waterslide Logo. A little unsure of how to pull it apart after soaking . Another thing: Since I had to strip the head stock I did the whole neck . So I decided to wipe some baking Soda /Water Mixture over the entire neck . Then I sprayed a light coat of Tabaco brown in the wear area on the back of the neck. Then 2 full coats of Amber along with 3 coats of Amber everywhere else . Prior to the last coat I sprayed a coat of aged clear on all of it . Anxious to see what you think . It appears to Me IMO the orangish color the Amber seems to create after 2 coats isn't anywhere near as much. Wish me luck on the logo . Even after watching videos . It's not obvious how you slide the backing off without damaging the rest. It seems that if you soak it for 15 seconds and then let it set out of the water for that same amount of time. The Logo itself seems more stable . But I still end up tearing the sample blanks I've tried
@@cramerlong2276 sounds like your neck is coming along nicely. 👍 One problem I ran into is that some of the decals I got were better than others. The Old Fret ones were nice (not thick, but durable), but some of the others would rip if you looked at them wrong. You're doing the right thing by running some trials. If it helps, here are just a couple of videos that I found useful when I was doing my projects: ua-cam.com/video/PkawGOSFjWQ/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/MjGPwAnOHks/v-deo.html There are a ton more out there, but of course there's nothing like the actual experience. It's a delicate process for sure!
Great video, great info, I also prefer vintage style tuners. Regarding your nitro delaminating, good luthier experienced with nitro can make it disapear. It is called drop-in nitro fix, where new nitro is melted with old one(delaminated) fixing it place and removing the air that is underneath. After that, good buff, polish, and headstock will be like new without the trace of old ugly washers :D
Thanks! I’m aware that the blemishes can be repaired, but I’m too cheap to have it done. 😂 I’m somewhat brave enough to try it myself, but I have a feeling it would be more trouble than it’s worth. The guitar is already pretty beat-up/worn in, so I’m ok with it. But again, good info. 👍🏻
I'm going to have to check out those Kluson bushings. I switched a guitar over a year or so ago, but the bushings were the bigger type like you showed on that Fender style headstock. They work, but they're not as visually pleasing as the smaller, truly vintage styled ones.
Not all Gibson branded kluson style vintage tuners have the small bushing on top. It's an 8mm hole, but they top of the bushing isnt like what you are describing. They all didn't have the plastic heads either. I'll show you tomorrow if I can find this video again. I can't get to my guitar right this second. Don't get me wrong, I'm not jumping on you or being combative. I know tone is hard to judge in text. I'm just conversating. I'm a fan of the wide washer myself. But I get exactly what you mean and to each their own. Still, a very informative video. Thank you for it. I saw some one just the other day who was trying to go back to tuners with small bushings and he ran into that problem that they wouldnt fit. I have a guitar with old vintage Grovers. It is an old ESP. several friends owned it before me. The original owner, a long time ago, put vintage Grovers in it. The bushing was to small for the hole. And it almost destroyed the tuners. It broke two, but I fixed them. This was some years ago when I fixed them. I ended up using an old trick girls in highschool used to wear their boyfriend's class ring. I wrapped thread around them as used a little super glue on it to solidify it. To make them fit. So, later, you can removed the thread without harming the tuner. Thanks for posting and if I can find this tomorrow, I will post a pic. I might be confusing UA-cam with Facebook. Can you post pics on UA-cam ? I don't know. I'll find out tomorrow. Thanks for the info.
I gotcha. So, I guess you’re describing something like the current 50s Les Paul tuners that I show at @1:26? Those are Kluson style but with the big washer.
I've glued a piece of note book paper around the bushings, like you stated paper is wood,boiled linseed oil and lemon oil also works good for fret board conditioner.
Dude I think you did an excellent job on the relic of those runners they look great ! I have a fender CS 1964 relic journeyman and my tuners look similar
Thank you! I appreciate it. To be honest, the color didn’t really stay on the plastics buttons, but the hardware itself still looks good (and “old”). 😊
Did I miss the part where you drill the headstock for the extra screws of the Klusons? I'm considering this swap in my LP to save some weight, any idea how much lighter the Klusons were? And did you notice a difference in how the guitar balances?
@@kostasbk741 yeah, those holes were already there from the original tuners. See @22:00. I honestly didn’t have the Grover tuners on long enough to really tell a difference in the balance. I DO know however that when I added the Bigsby, the guitar became “butt heavy”. Now when I sit, it wants to fall off my lap on the Bigsby end. 🫤
You can glue a piece of notebook paper around the bushings,the paper is made out of wood pulp so it's just a good as using shims, I've also thought of using glue and saw dust,have to do this same change out on an LP too.
I always wondered why Gibson never used the top loading vintage tuners like Fender. They have a natural lock because of it and make string changes easier. I always choose vintage style over modern on both Gibson and Fender. FYI, 70s style vintage Fender tuners will fit on a modern hole size.
@@greendayray and to this day virtually nobody makes 3 on a side top loading vintage tuners! I’d try them if they did. I agree with you: I prefer them. 👍🏻
My issue with the Grover tuners on my 2013 LP Standard is the weight of the tuners. If you try to balance the neck they pull the headstock down whereas I’m hoping the plastic Kluson tulip tuners may be lighter and balance the neck better
Maybe I need to put the Grovers back on my LP, because the Bigsby on the end makes it want to butt-dive whenever I play seated. 😂 But yeah it’s true the Klusons seem to weigh much less than the Grovers. 👍🏻
All Les Paul Traditionals came with Grover vintage style tuners installed which has the same threaded collars as the Rotomatics you had on and require 10mm pegholes. Your Gold Top came with that too so the 10mm peghole is from the factory. The guy replaced those to Grover Rotomatics but no other modification was done apparently. I just did this same conversion on my 2016 traditional. The Kluson conversion bushing is 10.02-10.05 mm measured under the flange (press diameter) and its flange diameter is 11.30mm (the Kluson original bushing in the box has a flange dia of 11.0mm and press diameter of 8.8mm for reference). Philadelphia Luthier Supplies sells a set of conversion bushings which I also purchased. Those are 10.20-10.25 (so 0.2mm larger than Kluson), fit much more snug but it has 12.0mm flange diameter so it covers just a tiny bit more of the headstock - not a visible difference really. Stewmac sells a set which is 10.50mm press diameter and it has 11.61mm flange diameter. So it is between the Kluson conversion and the Philadelphia Conversion :D. I did not get that one but I think that's the ultimate solution (and the most expensive). Great video as usual Nathan! Thanks for the hard work showing the smallest little details. I wish this was uploaded a couple of months ago when I started researching this... would have saved me hours looking at spec sheets and ordering the wrong stuff.
Wow, sounds like you did your homework! 👍 Thanks for all the information on the measurements of different adapter bushing options. I learned something new. Glad to help in any way I can. 😊
@@NathanSink yeah, I kinda went apeshit on this :D. Just like you, I love the look of the vintage headstock with the bushing but can't afford/justify a 59 reissue. Now the gibson diehards will tell you that the tuning machines affect the sound of the guitar. Have you noticed any change?
@@PeterSz73 😂 I didn’t really notice a change, BUT I also changed the bridge posts & put on a Bigsby all at about the same time. Plus, I hadn’t really had it all that long before I started I’m tinkering with it. I do seem to be having some tuning stability issues, but I suspect I just need to lubricate the nut & saddles now that I have the Bigsby on there.
@@NathanSink One more bit of information. In my research the Kluson model that is closest to the '59 period correct is the Single Ring, Single line version. That's the KD-3-NPK in Kluson's current line.
The foot print from the washers are there for life. You could have used 3M hand glaze on the headstock followed by virtuoso guitar polish. Linseed oil applied sparingly, and wiped off immediately works wonders for the rose wood board. Massage the rest in with your fingers, and then wipe off any excess with toilet paper, and then flush it.
Hey, did you get the adapter bushings with an outside diameter of 9.98mm & an inside diameter of 6.14mm [SKU:MB65LN] or the ones with an outside diameter of 9.98mm & an inside diameter of 1/4 inch or 6.35mm [SKU:MB65LN US]?
it seems like the KAISH brand adapter buchings look more like my own les paul classic, theyre also a little shorter on the part that goes into the headstock, for whatever thats worth. However, Im not sure if theyll fit gibson tuners or kluson tuners. I saw this other video that made it seem like the kluson tuners wont go through other brand bushings. my goal is to get gibson vintage tuners so I'll probably get the kaish or whatever off brand bushings. whatever happens i'll report back here.
So there are similar bushings out there that vary slightly. One is 9.2mm & shorter & the other is 8.8mm and longer. You can see them here in another video I made (see 3min 40sec into the video): ua-cam.com/video/dSY65ULWQhg/v-deo.htmlsi=cpVUbVYESHgSmHVj I’ll be interested in hearing what you report back. 👍🏻
You can coat the outside of a bushing with super glue or clear nail polish, let it dry and insert it into the head stalk as well. My ocd would have me worried about the tape.
@@NathanSink idk. after watching Gibson give full factory tours on youtube, it seems they are willing to give away all their secrets 🤣 good job on the tuners btw
Hey Nathan, I recently asked you a question regarding all of this but I have one more. How well did your guitar stay in tune after you installed the Klusons? I’ve been hearing from people that it can be an issue & one person said that his guitar didn’t stay in tune at all after he made the switch. So I’m very curious as to what your experience was. Also, even if your guitar did stay in tune, would you say it was better/worse/equal in comparison with the Grovers? Thanks again!
@@GuitarManDan89 I probably don’t have the best data to answer your question because I pretty much immediately changed the tuners when I got the guitar. I also put a Bigsby on shortly after getting the guitar, which can effect tuning. Wish I could be more help.
@@GuitarManDan89 no worries! It stays in tune pretty good now, considering the Bigsby. My biggest issue seemed to be the corian nut. I switched to Graphtech & tuning is much better.
For an exact fit with a screw in bushing and washer to cover up the washer mark, just buy the genuine Gibson Vintage Nickel Machine Heads with Pearloid Buttons from any online vendor. They are an exact fit for the hole, and the screw in bushing provides much better stability than the push in bushing, and they have the Gibson name on them.
That’s a great option for those who don’t mind the screw in bushing & washer. However, I was trying to get away from that look and go for the vintage aesthetic. (See @0:52 in the video).
@@NathanSink very cool. I didn’t catch that. They do make 10.5mm vintage conversion bushings that are an exact fit. StewMac sells them. I put them on a Mighty Mite Strat neck that I made to look like a ‘62 Start. I did the real ‘62 water slide decal and aged the lacquer.
The impression on the headstock is from the tuners being too tight. The wood expands with the change of seasons and the finish is damaged by the washers. Tuners only need to be snug, not as tight as possible. I learned this the hard way.
Looks cool. Kinda sucks having the indentations from those washers on the headstock, but other than sanding it down and repainting nitro over it what can you do?
Would these tuners cover my existing holes, I have a les Paul jr and it has diagonal tuners on it and I want to replace them. I will have to make new holes. I just want to make sure the old tuner holes will be covered with these tuners.
I can’t say for sure, but they probably won’t be covered. I did a similar thing here ua-cam.com/video/dSY65ULWQhg/v-deo.html If you go to the 2:34 mark of that video you can see me removing Schaller style tuners and then later in the video I replace them with vintage style. In this case I had to fill the old holes, but since I was refinishing the neck it wasn’t a big deal. Hope that helps.
Are those hardware supposed in the cup dry? Or did you soak them with muriatic acid? Thanks for your help. i’m gonna try to do this process. I just want to make sure if i’m not mistaken, looks like the hardware were just sitting in the cup dry.
Yes, I put the tuners in the cup (dry) & then put that cup in a Tupperware container with the muriatic acid in the bottom. The idea is that the FUMES do the work. You CAN put the tuners directly in the acid, but it will work much faster so you’ll have to keep an eye on it. Also, the acid will come in contact with the grease/lubricant inside the tuners & it might be effected.
@@NathanSink Thanks! Check this out.. I do like both tuners and have both on all my Les Paul’s ua-cam.com/video/F_t7jKYweQ8/v-deo.htmlsi=Ey5evMotrDWfegX8
I bought the exact tuners Kluson supremes KTS-3-N and the Kluson press-in tuning machine adapter reducer bushings 6.14mm interior, outside 9.98mm for my Gibson LP 60s standard and the bushings were way too small? A lot of wiggle room for sure. Which ones do I buy to snug fit? Thank you..
You can see @25:28 that I had the same issue with one of the bushings. The painters tape worked and honestly I haven't gone back to change it out for anything more permanent. One thing you could try is "edge banding" which is a strip of veneer made for plywood edges. Here is a link: amzn.to/47iVZ08 The idea would be to fill the hole in the headstock with the veneer (trimming to size) and hopefully that would fill the void and give you a good solid wood-to-wood connection. They make the stuff in all types of woods, so you could even get mahogany, which is what the headstock is made of. Hope that helps.
Okay maybe one of you fine folks can answer this. I have Gibson guitars that I bought new back in 1980 and have owned them for 44 years. One is a 25/50 Anniversary Les Paul and the other is Flying V2. Both of them have the gold plated hardware. Well, back in my US Navy days, I literally drug the V2 all over the world with me onboard ships, you know… like sailors do. So, it’s got some battle scars. One of the things that happened was I got a lot of corrosion and pitting on the gold plated stuff. I replaced the bridge on the V2 and I can get a set of the boomerang pickup rings for it as well. But what I really need are some tuning machine buttons. The V2 uses the same tuning machines as my Les Paul except the for whatever reason, the buttons on the LP are chrome instead of gold. Other than that, both guitars have the exact same tuning machines. They are genuine Gibson tuners, which is where my problem is. The gold plating on the V2 tuning buttons is severely pitted and corroded. I see the gold keystone type buttons around at a number of sources but they are all for Gotoh or Grover. I ordered a set for Gotoh and of course they don’t fit. I have not been able to find any genuine Gibson replacement buttons. So I know the Gotoh buttons won’t work. Will Grover keystone buttons fit a Gibson tuner from a 70’s/80’s Gibson tuner used on high end Les Paul’s or a V2? If not, what will? Getting any kind of info direct from Gibson is like pulling teeth. I asked them about refinishing my V2 and they flat out refused saying they won’t do something like that to a vintage instrument. Anyway, any ideas what buttons will fit the vintage Gibson tuners? I need gold Keystone.
Are you opposed to replacing the entire tuner (vs just the button)? I see Kluson also offers a gold Keystone type button. Maybe that would fit? It’s odd that the Grover button won’t fit the Gibson tuner. I would have thought they were the same spec. 🤷🏻♂️ Hope you find an answer.
@@NathanSink well, I wouldn’t be opposed to changing the entire tuner. The Gibson tuners are excellent. It’s just the buttons are pitted and corroded and look awful. The main part of the tuning machines look fine. The problem is, I have never seen any other tuning machine that has this same footprint and I wouldn’t want to put anything different in there that would require a new, different hole for the screw. I have not tried Grover buttons. I tried a new set made for Gotoh tuners. They did not fit. Are you thinking the Grover style might fit the old Gibson tuners? I’d be willing to try it.
If you take a look at @21:50 you can see that the second holes were actually already there. So the previous owner took the original Kluson style tuners off & put the Grovers on. I basically just reversed what he did.
Muriatic acid is pretty caustic stuff ,could cause severe burns. It could also deteriorate the lube inside the tuner . I just lightly scoured my shiny new tuner casings with a scotch brite scouring pad to dull the bright shiny finish and it seemed to work well.
No one talks about this. Same with Martin acoustics. Really large washers that hurt the aesthetics of the guitar. I just put butterbean open back tuners on my cheaper martin. Looks so much better. My les paul is from 2002 so already has small washers and the vintage look.
Thank you for the tip !! I'm from Brazil and I looked for several videos to adapt the vintage ones on my Les Paul, do you know the measurements that these new tuning pegs are
@@NathanSink no problem, your tips in the video were already cool, I bought a guitar to upgrade and I stopped in this difficulty....but it helped !! thanks !!
please help?. I have these style tuners. I broke one but it’s fixable but I don’t know how. If you open the metal inclosure I feel it is missing a washer but I don’t know what size washer to buy? You can buy these online but it’s advertised to different types of tuners. How do I know what I’m getting/buying?
@@thisisme4858 do you think it’s missing the spur gear (see for example at the bottom of this page: www.rickn-guitars.com/tuners/kluson_ref.html? Otherwise, I’m not sure what washer is internal to the tuner.
@@NathanSink na its not them. Only picture i could find on the internet but if you go on to the 3rd picture it shows the tuner with the box off and displays two white washers. Its one of those white washers but i dont know what size
@@thisisme4858 did you send a link? I’m not sure if it will work. I think UA-cam only allows the “creator” to add links. Although…I think you can post text of the link & I can copy/paste it. Also, I did a little bit of looking & I’m still not finding any washers like you’re describing. Since they’re white, are they plastic? Btw, I realized the link I posted earlier probably didn’t work, but I fixed it.
What I don't understand about my 2020 Slash Les Paul is that the Gotoh locking tuners I bought (7.75mm diameter bushing) is too small for the factory hole. So, I assume I need to buy the 10mm "adapter" bushings from Gotoh. However, they don't seem to have measurements of the adapter bushings, which worries me because while I know that they will fit in my Gibson's precut holes, I'm worried that the "washer" diameter of the new bushings will not cover the whole diameter of what the Gibson washer was. The problem that would obviously arise from this is that I would see the imprint of the Gibson washers on my headstock if the Gotoh 10mm bushing kit is a small diameter than the Gibson washer. Anyone got some advice?
All modern Gibson Les Pauls (or any Historic w/Grovers) use the 10mm screw on shaft tuners. So the "vintage" looking Gibson Deluxe tuners that come on the Slash are 10mm. So, you need the 10mm to 8mm bushing adapters (like the ones in this video).
Hey Nathan, I recently bought a strat neck from warmoth. It says the tuning reams are vintage style (11/32). I wanna put some roadworn strat tuners on it. Will that work? It says the roadworn is vintage style but I was wondering if you knew
Hi Nathan, thank you for the great detailed tutorial! Just wondering what's the length of the tunning posts on those Kluson Supreme? I'm swapping the Gibson Deluxe tuners on my Les Paul standard 50s for some Gotoh relic SD90s. However it seems the Gotoh tunning posts are a little shorter and the low E string is touching the bushings. Did you find the same issue on yours and what's the headstock thinckness of you Les Paul? Thank you!
Thanks for the kind words. I wish I knew off hand the shaft length. I looked online for some resources but couldn't find any: and of course I'd have to remove one to measure it. I would think all the the shaft lengths for these (regardless of brand) would be the same. 🤔 I did have an experience with Gotoh STAGGERED tuners one time where I had the issue you're having: ua-cam.com/video/Ae6oJdqOo_E/v-deo.html I'll TRY to remember to take the measurement when I get a chance...but I'm guessing I'll forget. 😬
@@Harrisabd Check out @21:51 in the video. It looks like the guitar originally came with the vintage style. The holes were already there. Here are a few videos where I installed Fender tuners for the first time & had to drill: ua-cam.com/video/yArpJ01Wjn4/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/evvlkuzGSm4/v-deo.html
Man, that is awesome!! I have a question about the Gibson trapezoid inlays. Did you try to make them look more yellow? Is that even possible to make them look like aged yellow inlays?
Thanks! I haven’t tried it with Gibson inlays, but I have tried it with Fender dot inlays, with mixed success: ua-cam.com/video/iwKzeKXJoxY/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/THaVYzvgkTw/v-deo.html In the first video I used leather dye & it seemed to work better. In the second video (which I tried first) I used a combination of shoe polish & pvc cleaner. It didn’t seem to last very long. Essentially, it’s fairly easy to get a decent color, but the difficult part is getting it to stay that way. The material Gibson uses (pearloid stuff) vs what Fender uses is probably different & might take color differently. If only we could ask Tom Murphy. He’s the master!
@@NathanSink Yeah, I've seen that video about fender inlays and I am just wondering if that will work to Gibson inlays or at least to some plastic cheap inlays like Epiphone uses. Anyway, the tuners look amazing and especially the knobs.
@@GopiGop-r3v well, I can’t guarantee it because I haven’t tried it. It produced a great cream vintage color on my Strat dot markers though. However, I will say that if you look at vintage 50s Les pauls (and custom shop reissues) the inlays don’t really age that much.
As a matter of fact, I have a video that just might help with that: ua-cam.com/video/R_XJV_aP3ZY/v-deo.html It’s not exactly the same scenario, but it will give you an idea of what it takes. But the short answer is yes.
My conversation bushings wont stay in my headstock. It's driving me crazy! I've tried shimming with toothpicks, and teflon tape. They just keep pulling themselves out when I tune to pitch and do a few bends. Im putting vintage locking kluson style 8.8mm post and bushings, into a gibson sg with 10mm holes removing stock gibson deluxe tuners, vintage looking but with the collars around the post. The new tuners im trying to install do not. And the conversion bushings I ordered just aint working, ugh.
@@NathanSink No they are not kluson brand, just some generic ones off ebay. The only difference between these and the standard vintage push in bushing is these have a bigger flared head so they don't just fall down in the holes. You should've seen my surprise when I pulled the gibson tuners out, and they had a collar on them! I was like wtf? Lol
I have a 2003 Les Paul and most of the metal parts have oxidised (I admittedly could have taken better care of them, but was having too much fun playing). But am I weird for wanting them all to look bright and shiny again? This whole process feels odd to me because I was genuinely thinking about replacing them with shinier parts, and yet I’m worried about it not feeling like my guitar anymore. Am I just having a guitarist’s mid life crisis?! I do think aging the caps looks nice though. Mine still have that snot green plastic look I was never a huge fan of (or is that sacrilege to say that?!)
I totally get it: how you feel about your guitar is a weird thing. 😂 Maybe new hardware will spark a new interest in the guitar? Or if you're like me, the mods never end. 😜
That’s true mojo, his guitar/he’s a poser. 😀. Ha, haw. I’m kidding to the video maker. . great video , I tend to like the poster above. I like the shinny, new look of hardware, never really been able to get on the ageing train. I am, admittedly, quite hard on my equipment… so that does not last long.
Yeah man gibson and fender got everything correct in the 50's..! Those first designs are perfect and they know it.. Yep grovers weigh a tonne just like locking tuners, totally unnecessary 👍
Atghhh thanks. Most of my LPs are 50s style but I do have one Classic. Now I can’t NOT see the washer. My OCD might force me to change them. Again thanks! JK
@@NathanSink better alternative for a sound fit is to plug and redrill a new hole then reinstall the original bushings. That’s what I did on my strat after days of trying the tape, even metal shim wrap stuff, epoxying…. btw, where did u find them adapter bushings anyway??
@@SharpEdgeStandardOfficial that’s probably the right way to do it, for sure…but man, that’s a lot of work. The tape seems to be working fine for me, so until I have any issues I’m gonna stick with it. I got the bushings on reverb.com, but it looks like they are available through Amazon as well: amzn.to/3qcYtg4 (affiliate link).
@@NathanSink yeah it’s a lot of work and frustrating at same time. Thanks for the links. My LP has them same big ugly goofy frisbee type, almost vintage tuners too why on earth they decided to do that modern design on vintage style tuners only shows how some folks at companies are incompetent lol.
@@NathanSink thanks for the info. I’m wondering do you think the modern “vintage style” tuners will still work with the conversion bushings?? I think the bushings should still seat all the way in but was wondering if that flange that the modern post screw threads into might not let the conversion bushings seat fully. Thoughts?
Hey would you be interested in selling the old grover's you took off?if your interested please let me know I'd love to have them if we can get together on it.thanks
ahh....... his new guitar and machine heads dont look vintage enough ...so sad i have a vintage les paul and had to change to grovers since the vintage tuners were coming apart. but im a studio musician that need a guitar to stay in tune . ...not caring about the size of the washers ....lol
Holy s*** man just show the actual upgrade. Too much talking. The actual upgrade only takes place in the last 5 minutes of a 20 minute video. And you placed an ad directly at the end of the video when the actual upgrade takes places. Thumbs down, will not watch your channel again
Watched this & the stewmac video on this. Thank you for the info man. It was a big help installing the Klusons. I have a Gibson Les Paul Custom & the vintage gold waffle backs look so epic. I got extremely lucky and the washers didn’t leave any noticeable marks after I wipes the peg holes off 🙏
Awesome! Nice to hear. 🙂
I didn't realize that the bushing sizes bother me so much until I got a hold of a 50s Original J-45 and wondered why the headstock just aesthetically looked so much better than I remember... Then I realized it was the bushing sizes! Gonna have to do this to my les paul now too lol
Nice! Glad I’m not the only one. 😂
The vintage style tuners look awesome!👍😎🎸🎶
Yeah!! 😊
Fun fact my guy, Grovers with the kidney bean tuners are a vintage tuner. They came stock on the Les Paul Customs of 1959/1960.
No way. Cool fact! Didn’t realize that.
@@NathanSink For sure! People Grover'd back in the day cause 50's Kluson's weren't as smooth. But you made the solid choice going for a 57 clone.
Yep, the grover tuners aren't a modern design, and they were a premium option.
Switching to the "vintage" tuners is downgrading for aesthetics.
@@scod3908sadly it’s true. gotoh makes a pretty decent set of these vintage kluson-lookalikes, very smooth action, great mechanism, but the actual vintage design itself (with the slim post and narrower bushing) just struggles and still has the same issues.
Yup, Grover’s are vintage tuners. And they’re for people who like their guitars in tune. 👍🏻
I'm one of those guys who really doesn't mind the washer on the Grovers. Call it personal preference but I've round the Grovers are actually a nicer set than the stock Gibson/Klusons. I also see film of George Harrison and others, and they often upgraded to the Grover milk bottles. I have a 1981 Les Paul Standard that the tuning machines after all these years, are finally giving out. I'm going to replace them with the Grover vintage set, which look similar to the stock set that's already on there.
Absolutely agree. They are a good set of tuners. Just comes down to preference. 👍🏻
Awesome video! I watched your tele build to help me make mine and now that I wanna change my LP tuners you've done that too!
Thanks for the kind words. 😊 Always glad to help. 👍🏻
@@NathanSink If you see this . I am now waiting 2 weeks to polish things up before I attempt to attach the Waterslide Logo. A little unsure of how to pull it apart after soaking . Another thing: Since I had to strip the head stock I did the whole neck . So I decided to wipe some baking Soda /Water Mixture over the entire neck . Then I sprayed a light coat of Tabaco brown in the wear area on the back of the neck. Then 2 full coats of Amber along with 3 coats of Amber everywhere else . Prior to the last coat I sprayed a coat of aged clear on all of it . Anxious to see what you think . It appears to Me IMO the orangish color the Amber seems to create after 2 coats isn't anywhere near as much.
Wish me luck on the logo . Even after watching videos . It's not obvious how you slide the backing off without damaging the rest. It seems that if you soak it for 15 seconds and then let it set out of the water for that same amount of time. The Logo itself seems more stable . But I still end up tearing the sample blanks I've tried
@@cramerlong2276 sounds like your neck is coming along nicely. 👍 One problem I ran into is that some of the decals I got were better than others. The Old Fret ones were nice (not thick, but durable), but some of the others would rip if you looked at them wrong. You're doing the right thing by running some trials. If it helps, here are just a couple of videos that I found useful when I was doing my projects:
ua-cam.com/video/PkawGOSFjWQ/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/MjGPwAnOHks/v-deo.html
There are a ton more out there, but of course there's nothing like the actual experience. It's a delicate process for sure!
2009 Gibson Traditional is my best Les Paul. Great guitars!
I would like a modern style locking tuner but with the old greenish plastic tuner keys! I like the look!
Agreed. That would be a nice option!
Gotoh do a locking tuner with plastic tulip tuning keys.
Great video, great info, I also prefer vintage style tuners.
Regarding your nitro delaminating, good luthier experienced with nitro can make it disapear. It is called drop-in nitro fix, where new nitro is melted with old one(delaminated) fixing it place and removing the air that is underneath. After that, good buff, polish, and headstock will be like new without the trace of old ugly washers :D
Thanks! I’m aware that the blemishes can be repaired, but I’m too cheap to have it done. 😂 I’m somewhat brave enough to try it myself, but I have a feeling it would be more trouble than it’s worth. The guitar is already pretty beat-up/worn in, so I’m ok with it. But again, good info. 👍🏻
I'm going to have to check out those Kluson bushings. I switched a guitar over a year or so ago, but the bushings were the bigger type like you showed on that Fender style headstock. They work, but they're not as visually pleasing as the smaller, truly vintage styled ones.
I've tried other ones too, & these Kluson ones look the best to me. 👍🏻
Not all Gibson branded kluson style vintage tuners have the small bushing on top. It's an 8mm hole, but they top of the bushing isnt like what you are describing. They all didn't have the plastic heads either. I'll show you tomorrow if I can find this video again. I can't get to my guitar right this second. Don't get me wrong, I'm not jumping on you or being combative. I know tone is hard to judge in text. I'm just conversating. I'm a fan of the wide washer myself. But I get exactly what you mean and to each their own. Still, a very informative video. Thank you for it. I saw some one just the other day who was trying to go back to tuners with small bushings and he ran into that problem that they wouldnt fit. I have a guitar with old vintage Grovers. It is an old ESP. several friends owned it before me. The original owner, a long time ago, put vintage Grovers in it. The bushing was to small for the hole. And it almost destroyed the tuners. It broke two, but I fixed them. This was some years ago when I fixed them. I ended up using an old trick girls in highschool used to wear their boyfriend's class ring. I wrapped thread around them as used a little super glue on it to solidify it. To make them fit. So, later, you can removed the thread without harming the tuner. Thanks for posting and if I can find this tomorrow, I will post a pic. I might be confusing UA-cam with Facebook. Can you post pics on UA-cam ? I don't know. I'll find out tomorrow. Thanks for the info.
I gotcha. So, I guess you’re describing something like the current 50s Les Paul tuners that I show at @1:26? Those are Kluson style but with the big washer.
I've glued a piece of note book paper around the bushings, like you stated paper is wood,boiled linseed oil and lemon oil also works good for fret board conditioner.
Make sure it is double boiled linseed oil.
Dude I think you did an excellent job on the relic of those runners they look great ! I have a fender CS 1964 relic journeyman and my tuners look similar
Thank you! I appreciate it. To be honest, the color didn’t really stay on the plastics buttons, but the hardware itself still looks good (and “old”). 😊
Did I miss the part where you drill the headstock for the extra screws of the Klusons? I'm considering this swap in my LP to save some weight, any idea how much lighter the Klusons were? And did you notice a difference in how the guitar balances?
@@kostasbk741 yeah, those holes were already there from the original tuners. See @22:00. I honestly didn’t have the Grover tuners on long enough to really tell a difference in the balance. I DO know however that when I added the Bigsby, the guitar became “butt heavy”. Now when I sit, it wants to fall off my lap on the Bigsby end. 🫤
You can glue a piece of notebook paper around the bushings,the paper is made out of wood pulp so it's just a good as using shims, I've also thought of using glue and saw dust,have to do this same change out on an LP too.
Thanks for the tip. 👍🏻
I always wondered why Gibson never used the top loading vintage tuners like Fender. They have a natural lock because of it and make string changes easier. I always choose vintage style over modern on both Gibson and Fender. FYI, 70s style vintage Fender tuners will fit on a modern hole size.
@@greendayray and to this day virtually nobody makes 3 on a side top loading vintage tuners! I’d try them if they did. I agree with you: I prefer them. 👍🏻
My issue with the Grover tuners on my 2013 LP Standard is the weight of the tuners. If you try to balance the neck they pull the headstock down whereas I’m hoping the plastic Kluson tulip tuners may be lighter and balance the neck better
Maybe I need to put the Grovers back on my LP, because the Bigsby on the end makes it want to butt-dive whenever I play seated. 😂 But yeah it’s true the Klusons seem to weigh much less than the Grovers. 👍🏻
They make wide flange bushings in 10mm
It's an Electric Guitar & the Sealed Gear Tuners are designed to keep it in tune longer. However the washers would have to be see though washers.
Clear washers. Interesting take!
@@NathanSink In fact the Metal Washers on those new Grover would have to be made from a special metal that allows you to see through
@@NathanSink ua-cam.com/video/nEEm3lifjzU/v-deo.html I did however create a Double Commercial
All Les Paul Traditionals came with Grover vintage style tuners installed which has the same threaded collars as the Rotomatics you had on and require 10mm pegholes. Your Gold Top came with that too so the 10mm peghole is from the factory. The guy replaced those to Grover Rotomatics but no other modification was done apparently.
I just did this same conversion on my 2016 traditional. The Kluson conversion bushing is 10.02-10.05 mm measured under the flange (press diameter) and its flange diameter is 11.30mm (the Kluson original bushing in the box has a flange dia of 11.0mm and press diameter of 8.8mm for reference).
Philadelphia Luthier Supplies sells a set of conversion bushings which I also purchased. Those are 10.20-10.25 (so 0.2mm larger than Kluson), fit much more snug but it has 12.0mm flange diameter so it covers just a tiny bit more of the headstock - not a visible difference really.
Stewmac sells a set which is 10.50mm press diameter and it has 11.61mm flange diameter. So it is between the Kluson conversion and the Philadelphia Conversion :D. I did not get that one but I think that's the ultimate solution (and the most expensive).
Great video as usual Nathan! Thanks for the hard work showing the smallest little details. I wish this was uploaded a couple of months ago when I started researching this... would have saved me hours looking at spec sheets and ordering the wrong stuff.
Wow, sounds like you did your homework! 👍 Thanks for all the information on the measurements of different adapter bushing options. I learned something new. Glad to help in any way I can. 😊
@@NathanSink yeah, I kinda went apeshit on this :D. Just like you, I love the look of the vintage headstock with the bushing but can't afford/justify a 59 reissue.
Now the gibson diehards will tell you that the tuning machines affect the sound of the guitar. Have you noticed any change?
@@PeterSz73 😂 I didn’t really notice a change, BUT I also changed the bridge posts & put on a Bigsby all at about the same time. Plus, I hadn’t really had it all that long before I started I’m tinkering with it. I do seem to be having some tuning stability issues, but I suspect I just need to lubricate the nut & saddles now that I have the Bigsby on there.
@@NathanSink One more bit of information. In my research the Kluson model that is closest to the '59 period correct is the Single Ring, Single line version. That's the KD-3-NPK in Kluson's current line.
@@PeterSz73 good stuff. 👍🏻
Yeah, the modern size holes in Fender are 10.5 mm. I think Kluson makes a different adapter for those.
the bushing i put on my semi are too large and now i know to order kluson adapters instead. cheers!
The foot print from the washers are there for life. You could have used 3M hand glaze on the headstock followed by virtuoso guitar polish. Linseed oil applied sparingly, and wiped off immediately works wonders for the rose wood board. Massage the rest in with your fingers, and then wipe off any excess with toilet paper, and then flush it.
Thanks for the feedback.
Hey, did you get the adapter bushings with an outside diameter of 9.98mm & an inside diameter of 6.14mm [SKU:MB65LN] or the ones with an outside diameter of 9.98mm & an inside diameter of 1/4 inch or 6.35mm [SKU:MB65LN US]?
@@GuitarManDan89 the US 1/4” version.
@@NathanSink Thank you!!
it seems like the KAISH brand adapter buchings look more like my own les paul classic, theyre also a little shorter on the part that goes into the headstock, for whatever thats worth. However, Im not sure if theyll fit gibson tuners or kluson tuners. I saw this other video that made it seem like the kluson tuners wont go through other brand bushings. my goal is to get gibson vintage tuners so I'll probably get the kaish or whatever off brand bushings. whatever happens i'll report back here.
So there are similar bushings out there that vary slightly. One is 9.2mm & shorter & the other is 8.8mm and longer. You can see them here in another video I made (see 3min 40sec into the video): ua-cam.com/video/dSY65ULWQhg/v-deo.htmlsi=cpVUbVYESHgSmHVj
I’ll be interested in hearing what you report back. 👍🏻
You can coat the outside of a bushing with super glue or clear nail polish, let it dry and insert it into the head stalk as well. My ocd would have me worried about the tape.
Never thought about that. Good idea. Believe me, I'm in the same boat with the OCD. If it's not one thing to worry about, it's another. 😂
did you ever think of contacting murphy lab to see if they had any tips on aging your tuners?
No, but honestly I’m guessing they wouldn’t give me the time of day.
@@NathanSink idk. after watching Gibson give full factory tours on youtube, it seems they are willing to give away all their secrets 🤣 good job on the tuners btw
Hey Nathan, I recently asked you a question regarding all of this but I have one more. How well did your guitar stay in tune after you installed the Klusons? I’ve been hearing from people that it can be an issue & one person said that his guitar didn’t stay in tune at all after he made the switch. So I’m very curious as to what your experience was. Also, even if your guitar did stay in tune, would you say it was better/worse/equal in comparison with the Grovers? Thanks again!
@@GuitarManDan89 I probably don’t have the best data to answer your question because I pretty much immediately changed the tuners when I got the guitar. I also put a Bigsby on shortly after getting the guitar, which can effect tuning. Wish I could be more help.
@@NathanSink It’s fine dude! Does it stay in tune now with the Bigsby on? I promise I’ll stop bothering you after this lol
@@GuitarManDan89 no worries! It stays in tune pretty good now, considering the Bigsby. My biggest issue seemed to be the corian nut. I switched to Graphtech & tuning is much better.
@@NathanSink Awesome, you’ve been very helpful!!
Do you have a part number for those bushings? I am planning to do the same on my gold top.
I’m pretty sure they are these (1/4” version): www.kluson.com/kluson-adapter-bushing-set-for-vintage-stamped-steel-series-tuning-machines-details.html
@@NathanSink, thank you!
For an exact fit with a screw in bushing and washer to cover up the washer mark, just buy the genuine Gibson Vintage Nickel Machine Heads with Pearloid Buttons from any online vendor. They are an exact fit for the hole, and the screw in bushing provides much better stability than the push in bushing, and they have the Gibson name on them.
That’s a great option for those who don’t mind the screw in bushing & washer. However, I was trying to get away from that look and go for the vintage aesthetic. (See @0:52 in the video).
@@NathanSink very cool. I didn’t catch that. They do make 10.5mm vintage conversion bushings that are an exact fit. StewMac sells them. I put them on a Mighty Mite Strat neck that I made to look like a ‘62 Start. I did the real ‘62 water slide decal and aged the lacquer.
The impression on the headstock is from the tuners being too tight. The wood expands with the change of seasons and the finish is damaged by the washers. Tuners only need to be snug, not as tight as possible. I learned this the hard way.
Looks cool. Kinda sucks having the indentations from those washers on the headstock, but other than sanding it down and repainting nitro over it what can you do?
True!
I can still use the rings from grover tuners to cover the circle impressions? I mean, i can use the old rings, arruelas, with the kluson deluxe tuner?
If you use the Kluson style tuners I used in this video, then no. You would need something like this: shorturl.at/iwxLV
@@NathanSink yeahhh, thanks! 89 dólares = 468 reais xD I'll work a little bit more to import this
I bought a epiphone les paul 2008 trans amber
Would these tuners cover my existing holes, I have a les Paul jr and it has diagonal tuners on it and I want to replace them. I will have to make new holes. I just want to make sure the old tuner holes will be covered with these tuners.
I can’t say for sure, but they probably won’t be covered. I did a similar thing here ua-cam.com/video/dSY65ULWQhg/v-deo.html If you go to the 2:34 mark of that video you can see me removing Schaller style tuners and then later in the video I replace them with vintage style. In this case I had to fill the old holes, but since I was refinishing the neck it wasn’t a big deal. Hope that helps.
Oh, and the video where I actually filled this holes is this one (at the 2:50 mark): ua-cam.com/video/hcHvfNeQXew/v-deo.html
Nice! A really useful material for those loose bushings is to wrap them with HVAC tape.
Thanks for the info. 👍🏻
Are those hardware supposed in the cup dry? Or did you soak them with muriatic acid? Thanks for your help. i’m gonna try to do this process. I just want to make sure if i’m not mistaken, looks like the hardware were just sitting in the cup dry.
Yes, I put the tuners in the cup (dry) & then put that cup in a Tupperware container with the muriatic acid in the bottom. The idea is that the FUMES do the work. You CAN put the tuners directly in the acid, but it will work much faster so you’ll have to keep an eye on it. Also, the acid will come in contact with the grease/lubricant inside the tuners & it might be effected.
I’ve been thinking about doing exactly this to my new les Paul. Hopefully the tuners haven’t been on de tight that they left a ring
Hope it works out for you. 👍🏻
I’m thinking of just going uptown now and buying some painters tape. I just wished I didn’t have to rig all 6 of them up like this but oh well..
Hope it works out!
@@NathanSink Thanks! Check this out.. I do like both tuners and have both on all my Les Paul’s ua-cam.com/video/F_t7jKYweQ8/v-deo.htmlsi=Ey5evMotrDWfegX8
I bought the exact tuners Kluson supremes KTS-3-N and the Kluson press-in tuning machine adapter reducer bushings 6.14mm interior, outside 9.98mm for my Gibson LP 60s standard and the bushings were way too small? A lot of wiggle room for sure. Which ones do I buy to snug fit? Thank you..
You can see @25:28 that I had the same issue with one of the bushings. The painters tape worked and honestly I haven't gone back to change it out for anything more permanent. One thing you could try is "edge banding" which is a strip of veneer made for plywood edges. Here is a link: amzn.to/47iVZ08 The idea would be to fill the hole in the headstock with the veneer (trimming to size) and hopefully that would fill the void and give you a good solid wood-to-wood connection. They make the stuff in all types of woods, so you could even get mahogany, which is what the headstock is made of.
Hope that helps.
Okay maybe one of you fine folks can answer this. I have Gibson guitars that I bought new back in 1980 and have owned them for 44 years. One is a 25/50 Anniversary Les Paul and the other is Flying V2. Both of them have the gold plated hardware. Well, back in my US Navy days, I literally drug the V2 all over the world with me onboard ships, you know… like sailors do. So, it’s got some battle scars. One of the things that happened was I got a lot of corrosion and pitting on the gold plated stuff. I replaced the bridge on the V2 and I can get a set of the boomerang pickup rings for it as well. But what I really need are some tuning machine buttons. The V2 uses the same tuning machines as my Les Paul except the for whatever reason, the buttons on the LP are chrome instead of gold. Other than that, both guitars have the exact same tuning machines. They are genuine Gibson tuners, which is where my problem is. The gold plating on the V2 tuning buttons is severely pitted and corroded. I see the gold keystone type buttons around at a number of sources but they are all for Gotoh or Grover. I ordered a set for Gotoh and of course they don’t fit. I have not been able to find any genuine Gibson replacement buttons. So I know the Gotoh buttons won’t work. Will Grover keystone buttons fit a Gibson tuner from a 70’s/80’s Gibson tuner used on high end Les Paul’s or a V2? If not, what will? Getting any kind of info direct from Gibson is like pulling teeth. I asked them about refinishing my V2 and they flat out refused saying they won’t do something like that to a vintage instrument.
Anyway, any ideas what buttons will fit the vintage Gibson tuners? I need gold Keystone.
Are you opposed to replacing the entire tuner (vs just the button)?
I see Kluson also offers a gold Keystone type button. Maybe that would fit? It’s odd that the Grover button won’t fit the Gibson tuner. I would have thought they were the same spec. 🤷🏻♂️
Hope you find an answer.
@@NathanSink well, I wouldn’t be opposed to changing the entire tuner. The Gibson tuners are excellent. It’s just the buttons are pitted and corroded and look awful. The main part of the tuning machines look fine. The problem is, I have never seen any other tuning machine that has this same footprint and I wouldn’t want to put anything different in there that would require a new, different hole for the screw.
I have not tried Grover buttons. I tried a new set made for Gotoh tuners. They did not fit. Are you thinking the Grover style might fit the old Gibson tuners? I’d be willing to try it.
I have a friend traveling in Miami, you live in usa? Do you know any online shop or local in miani that sells this?
I do live in the USA, but I’m about as far from Miami as you can get. Hope it works out. 🙂
My man. Thanks.
You’re welcome! Glad to help. 😊
Hi, can you please share reference nubers of tuners and bushings? Thank you!
The tuners are KTS-3-N (see @8:17 in the video). The bushings are MB65N-L US.
Did you have to drill new holes for the second screws?
If you take a look at @21:50 you can see that the second holes were actually already there. So the previous owner took the original Kluson style tuners off & put the Grovers on. I basically just reversed what he did.
Muriatic acid is pretty caustic stuff ,could cause severe burns. It could also deteriorate the lube inside the tuner .
I just lightly scoured my shiny new tuner casings with a scotch brite scouring pad to dull the bright shiny finish and it seemed to work well.
Right on. I definitely wouldn’t dip the tuners into the acid. Whatever works! 😊 Glad yours turned out well. 👍🏻
@@NathanSink I apologize then .I thought said you soaked them in acid .Too much acid when I was a kid probably .
@@bluesboytony 😂 no worries!
No one talks about this. Same with Martin acoustics. Really large washers that hurt the aesthetics of the guitar. I just put butterbean open back tuners on my cheaper martin. Looks so much better. My les paul is from 2002 so already has small washers and the vintage look.
Thank you for the tip !! I'm from Brazil and I looked for several videos to adapt the vintage ones on my Les Paul, do you know the measurements that these new tuning pegs are
Not sure exactly which measurement you mean. Let me know & hopefully I can help.
@@NathanSink no problem, your tips in the video were already cool, I bought a guitar to upgrade and I stopped in this difficulty....but it helped !! thanks !!
please help?. I have these style tuners. I broke one but it’s fixable but I don’t know how. If you open the metal inclosure I feel it is missing a washer but I don’t know what size washer to buy? You can buy these online but it’s advertised to different types of tuners. How do I know what I’m getting/buying?
@@thisisme4858 do you know what make/model your tuners are?
@@NathanSink yea Gibson Deluxe vintage
@@thisisme4858 do you think it’s missing the spur gear (see for example at the bottom of this page: www.rickn-guitars.com/tuners/kluson_ref.html? Otherwise, I’m not sure what washer is internal to the tuner.
@@NathanSink na its not them. Only picture i could find on the internet but if you go on to the 3rd picture it shows the tuner with the box off and displays two white washers. Its one of those white washers but i dont know what size
@@thisisme4858 did you send a link? I’m not sure if it will work. I think UA-cam only allows the “creator” to add links. Although…I think you can post text of the link & I can copy/paste it. Also, I did a little bit of looking & I’m still not finding any washers like you’re describing. Since they’re white, are they plastic?
Btw, I realized the link I posted earlier probably didn’t work, but I fixed it.
What I don't understand about my 2020 Slash Les Paul is that the Gotoh locking tuners I bought (7.75mm diameter bushing) is too small for the factory hole. So, I assume I need to buy the 10mm "adapter" bushings from Gotoh. However, they don't seem to have measurements of the adapter bushings, which worries me because while I know that they will fit in my Gibson's precut holes, I'm worried that the "washer" diameter of the new bushings will not cover the whole diameter of what the Gibson washer was. The problem that would obviously arise from this is that I would see the imprint of the Gibson washers on my headstock if the Gotoh 10mm bushing kit is a small diameter than the Gibson washer. Anyone got some advice?
Unfortunately I don't have any experience with that setup. Hopefully someone here can chime in.
All modern Gibson Les Pauls (or any Historic w/Grovers) use the 10mm screw on shaft tuners. So the "vintage" looking Gibson Deluxe tuners that come on the Slash are 10mm. So, you need the 10mm to 8mm bushing adapters (like the ones in this video).
Teflon tape for pipe threads would work well for making them have a snugger fit.
Definitely an option!
Hey Nathan, I recently bought a strat neck from warmoth. It says the tuning reams are vintage style (11/32). I wanna put some roadworn strat tuners on it. Will that work? It says the roadworn is vintage style but I was wondering if you knew
Yes, that should work. 11/32” = ~8.5 mm, which is the correct bushing size for vintage tuners. 👍🏻
Hi Nathan, thank you for the great detailed tutorial! Just wondering what's the length of the tunning posts on those Kluson Supreme? I'm swapping the Gibson Deluxe tuners on my Les Paul standard 50s for some Gotoh relic SD90s. However it seems the Gotoh tunning posts are a little shorter and the low E string is touching the bushings. Did you find the same issue on yours and what's the headstock thinckness of you Les Paul? Thank you!
Thanks for the kind words. I wish I knew off hand the shaft length. I looked online for some resources but couldn't find any: and of course I'd have to remove one to measure it. I would think all the the shaft lengths for these (regardless of brand) would be the same. 🤔 I did have an experience with Gotoh STAGGERED tuners one time where I had the issue you're having: ua-cam.com/video/Ae6oJdqOo_E/v-deo.html I'll TRY to remember to take the measurement when I get a chance...but I'm guessing I'll forget. 😬
How did you drill the other holes in the neck? What size drill head did you use?
I never drilled holes. I got the guitar used & it came with larger holes for the Grover tuners. I used adapter bushings to install the Kluson tuners.
@@NathanSink sorry I mean for the back of the tuners, I've removed my Grovers and they only have 1 screw hole compared to the klusons need 2
@@Harrisabd Check out @21:51 in the video. It looks like the guitar originally came with the vintage style. The holes were already there. Here are a few videos where I installed Fender tuners for the first time & had to drill:
ua-cam.com/video/yArpJ01Wjn4/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/evvlkuzGSm4/v-deo.html
Man, that is awesome!! I have a question about the Gibson trapezoid inlays. Did you try to make them look more yellow? Is that even possible to make them look like aged yellow inlays?
Thanks! I haven’t tried it with Gibson inlays, but I have tried it with Fender dot inlays, with mixed success:
ua-cam.com/video/iwKzeKXJoxY/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/THaVYzvgkTw/v-deo.html
In the first video I used leather dye & it seemed to work better. In the second video (which I tried first) I used a combination of shoe polish & pvc cleaner. It didn’t seem to last very long.
Essentially, it’s fairly easy to get a decent color, but the difficult part is getting it to stay that way. The material Gibson uses (pearloid stuff) vs what Fender uses is probably different & might take color differently.
If only we could ask Tom Murphy. He’s the master!
@@NathanSink Yeah, I've seen that video about fender inlays and I am just wondering if that will work to Gibson inlays or at least to some plastic cheap inlays like Epiphone uses. Anyway, the tuners look amazing and especially the knobs.
@@NathanSink So, this Leather Dye works perfect?
@@GopiGop-r3v well, I can’t guarantee it because I haven’t tried it. It produced a great cream vintage color on my Strat dot markers though. However, I will say that if you look at vintage 50s Les pauls (and custom shop reissues) the inlays don’t really age that much.
@@NathanSink Oh, ok, thank you.
hi is it possible to change only the buttons?
As a matter of fact, I have a video that just might help with that: ua-cam.com/video/R_XJV_aP3ZY/v-deo.html It’s not exactly the same scenario, but it will give you an idea of what it takes. But the short answer is yes.
My conversation bushings wont stay in my headstock. It's driving me crazy! I've tried shimming with toothpicks, and teflon tape. They just keep pulling themselves out when I tune to pitch and do a few bends. Im putting vintage locking kluson style 8.8mm post and bushings, into a gibson sg with 10mm holes removing stock gibson deluxe tuners, vintage looking but with the collars around the post. The new tuners im trying to install do not. And the conversion bushings I ordered just aint working, ugh.
Man, that IS frustrating. Did you get Kluson conversion bushings or another brand? Hope it works out for you.
@@NathanSink No they are not kluson brand, just some generic ones off ebay. The only difference between these and the standard vintage push in bushing is these have a bigger flared head so they don't just fall down in the holes. You should've seen my surprise when I pulled the gibson tuners out, and they had a collar on them! I was like wtf? Lol
i have the same problem. do you solvented this problem yet?
@@macauley70 Just get the Kluson bushings, that's what I ended up having to do. Good luck
I have a 2003 Les Paul and most of the metal parts have oxidised (I admittedly could have taken better care of them, but was having too much fun playing). But am I weird for wanting them all to look bright and shiny again? This whole process feels odd to me because I was genuinely thinking about replacing them with shinier parts, and yet I’m worried about it not feeling like my guitar anymore. Am I just having a guitarist’s mid life crisis?! I do think aging the caps looks nice though. Mine still have that snot green plastic look I was never a huge fan of (or is that sacrilege to say that?!)
I totally get it: how you feel about your guitar is a weird thing. 😂
Maybe new hardware will spark a new interest in the guitar? Or if you're like me, the mods never end. 😜
That’s true mojo, his guitar/he’s a poser. 😀.
Ha, haw. I’m kidding to the video maker. . great video , I tend to like the poster above. I like the shinny, new look of hardware, never really been able to get on the ageing train. I am, admittedly, quite hard on my equipment… so that does not last long.
Mine all fit like how loose your G string bushing is and it sucks..!
🤘
Yeah man gibson and fender got everything correct in the 50's..! Those first designs are perfect and they know it..
Yep grovers weigh a tonne just like locking tuners, totally unnecessary 👍
Chainlube stiffens the tuners up its very sticky , it doesnt wear off to soon (understatement )
Atghhh thanks. Most of my LPs are 50s style but I do have one Classic. Now I can’t NOT see the washer. My OCD might force me to change them.
Again thanks!
JK
Sorry I had to point it out. 😂 Glad to help.
tape wont work the bushing will tilt when the post has pressure on it from string
What’s the better alternative?
@@NathanSink better alternative for a sound fit is to plug and redrill a new hole then reinstall the original bushings. That’s what I did on my strat after days of trying the tape, even metal shim wrap stuff, epoxying…. btw, where did u find them adapter bushings anyway??
@@SharpEdgeStandardOfficial that’s probably the right way to do it, for sure…but man, that’s a lot of work. The tape seems to be working fine for me, so until I have any issues I’m gonna stick with it. I got the bushings on reverb.com, but it looks like they are available through Amazon as well: amzn.to/3qcYtg4 (affiliate link).
@@NathanSink yeah it’s a lot of work and frustrating at same time. Thanks for the links. My LP has them same big ugly goofy frisbee type, almost vintage tuners too why on earth they decided to do that modern design on vintage style tuners only shows how some folks at companies are incompetent lol.
@@NathanSink thanks for the info. I’m wondering do you think the modern “vintage style” tuners will still work with the conversion bushings?? I think the bushings should still seat all the way in but was wondering if that flange that the modern post screw threads into might not let the conversion bushings seat fully. Thoughts?
Hey would you be interested in selling the old grover's you took off?if your interested please let me know I'd love to have them if we can get together on it.thanks
Yeah, I think so. Maybe send me a message on Instagram (nathan_sink_music).
ahh....... his new guitar and machine heads dont look vintage enough ...so sad
i have a vintage les paul and had to change to grovers since the vintage tuners were coming apart.
but im a studio musician that need a guitar to stay in tune . ...not caring about the size of the washers ....lol
Touché. However, my “new” guitar is 12 years old.
Holy s*** man just show the actual upgrade. Too much talking. The actual upgrade only takes place in the last 5 minutes of a 20 minute video. And you placed an ad directly at the end of the video when the actual upgrade takes places. Thumbs down, will not watch your channel again
I don’t choose where the adds are placed. UA-cam does that. Thanks for watching.
I’m sure he won’t be missing one less viewer let alone the opinions you have