I mean to be fair how can you fix nurse without totally reworking her. As along as she has her teleport at all she effectively negates nearly all the resource elements of the game.
I’d argue the reason nurse isn’t touched is because of the skill gap required to use her effectively. I’m not saying it takes months or years to learn, but it is worth mentioning.
One unique ive found with mage hand is that if a survivor goes over a dropped palles just as you lift it up it will actually interrupt the vault leaving them on your side timing is hard tho but it is consistent
@@spritecranberry8952That's better than nothing, especially since DH and SB are very popular as well, making it likely that they *don't* even have Lithe. A guaranteed hit outside of a statistically unlikely circumstance sounds good enough to me.
I think having to break pallets has always been not worth it, its a giant time waster and makes chases take way longer bc of the distance they gain from pre-dropping and running.
@@kaiseremotion854 yep wish they would make weaker killers have base kit brutal strength and rework the perk to be something different, m1 killers need a QOL update badly
@@HardTahc not really, it’s not a bug it’s just BHVR not knowing how their perks and abilities interact. STBFL is a great example, it wasn’t bugged but they didn’t account for how strong special attacks saving stacks would be.
They should buff his cooldowns by making it so when you use a spell, the other spell's cooldowns are reduced by X seconds. This then promotes the player to constantly use different spells when they play Vecna.
They should just make it so when you use mage hand 1 survivor automatically gets hooked when you use another ability a random survivor is mori'd. Vecna too weak
They should make it so that Vecna’s ball actually downs survivors, which then causes other survivors who are 1 meter away from the downed survivor to get Mori’d by 3 other Vecnas.
Sorry about the other kids replying to you. He does not seem like he is in need of more buffs, but it wouldn't be a bad thing. It is a cool idea, but his chase is so powerful already I don't think it would really be useful. As is, you can easily secure guarenteed hits with Mage Hand and Flight of the Damned, and if you land an M1 you can just use fly to catch up to them immediately. If anything needs a buff its definitely not his chase, his cooldowns are fair for how powerful they are. All I want back is the sliding on the fly ability, it feels so clunky to be flying at fast speeds and then for some reason completely stop, when you literally hover and never walk. Cool idea though!
Oh god Hubris with it is a game changer Ps. Theres a bug with vecna where you might duplicate a pallet because i had an ace drop a pallet i pick it back up and later that same pallet gets dropped and there's both a pallet siting down and upside, and later on that same pallet gets dropped again after i broke it
On the new map there are two bugged pallets, one with 2 pallets and one with a giant gap where im assuming the tree is supposed to be closer, or there is a missing object all together in the open spot. Also, in the dungeon they need to add more hooks, ive only had 2 very far apart down there.
I had that happen to me yesterday. It's on the new map. I vaulted a pallet and the doctor walked between it and a tree. He knocked me down, then turned around and hit the tree.
Right now Mage hand is his strongest tool in his kit. buttt if you predrop expecting them to pick it up, as a survivor, you can walk/sprint in to the pallet body blocking it, and if your ping is good you will drop it before the Vecna can swing.
I’ve found great success running the bag of holding add on that makes it that 2 mimics will always spawn and the add on that gives you aura read every time you cast a spell and the survivor is near a chest.
@pvdg3515 It still massively slows down the rate at which survivors are able to loot magic items though. The obliviousness can also catch survivors off guard paired with tracking
I am happy this is not intended. To be fair though, Mage Hand still has counterplay, but you need to have a bit of distance to Vecna in order to participate in that counterplay. If you have a bit of distance to Vecna, the mind game that was present on the ptb is present here too. Which is why I don't get how Enduring gives you free hits almost 100% of the time at the moment, you just have to drop the pallet a bit sooner, or not, if Vecna uses Mage Hand. Still, I think it's good that this bug is getting fixed.
you need to have some distance on Vecna to drop the pallet safely, if he is behind you and you drop it he just picks it up and hits you. (But with enduring you don't need to respect the pallet drop so the survivor doesn't have an option in most chases. It is like playing against Spirit Fury & Enduring but it is active every time he has his power and you can't pre drop pallets to avoid the hit)
I like Mage Hand because it specifically encourages survivors greed or go for a stun, since they lose if they predrop (you walk through) or camp the pallet, and dont gain enough distance to go to the next tile if they predrop too close.
I got a pretty mean aura build i think is pretty fun with his new aura perk with lethal plus franklins demise for more consistant aura value near gens and rapid brutality to play catch up
@@finlaymarsh2862 I use it a lot just to get around and to catch up to survivors but it's not super fast and it still has a sizable cooldown, it can definitely be replaced no problem with some gen regression or something like hubris for lethality. But I'm just a casual player.
I knew there was a reason i ran into enduring vecnas what was chucky tier boring to vs. Glad ifs being fixed, i think he needs some number tweeks on cd but mainly it should depend on how strong the spell is.
I found rapid brutality to work extremely well on vecna since you're using spells in chase all the time, it helps for the moments when fly is on cooldown
Anyone noticed this pattern of problematic balance being called bugs? Maybe it’s a coincidence but it rubs me the wrong way every time, especially when it’s idk 5 years old and never was once alluded to being a bug… cough plague cough
They have a huge ego problem. All way back when Dowsey drama happened. When they framed his mostly legit (even if a bit emotional) criticism as personal attack and went on a revenge spree
Something similar to this, apparently, Vecna being able to go through survivors during fly was a "bug". While in the same exact patch notes it states that he regains back collision at the end of his fly, which doesn't make sense at all
@sorin_markov I mean with ph, if you're holding your power and get stunned with a pallet, if you shoot right as you're stunned, you'll still send the attack and get the hit
On the survivor side of things, if you drop a pallet and Vecna picks it it back up with Mage hand, you can camp it and drop it back the second it's up, stunning him, because he has a massive cooldown before he can hit you. Also, blocking pallets to prevent a pallet save never works, even with Magic hand duration add on. Truly, one of the killers.
Not sure if it's a bug or not, but the Skeleton spell is extremely op. It can hit people as soon as it activates, so if you cast it on top of survivors, it will instantly hit. If you are in a loop, and close to the survivor, you can just call the skeletons, and it's a guaranteed hit before anyone can react. The only way to avoid is to crouch the entire time of the chase, which is not plausible
Thats not called being OP, thats called a skill gap between those who can land the skeletons at that exact range and those who cant Additionally just because a survivor cant do anything about a killers power in a 1v1, doesnt mean its op, if anything thats how it should be, you should lose that every time, its an asymmetrical game 4v1 You are supposed to lose badly, in the 1v1
@@Winterstorm91 You're supposed to lose after a certain amount of time. You're not supposed to lose "badly." Even if you're supposed to lose, it's because you depleted your resources or were outpositioned, not because a killer does something that guarantees a hit. While I don't think the skeletons are the worst part of Vecna (Mage Hand on a ton of loops feels ultra brutal and forces pre-throw & go to next loop gameplay which is zzz), the problem here isn't the skill gap between good and bad Vecnas but rather the effort required to succeed for Vecna vs survivor. No matter how hard something is to do as killer, there should always be equitable counterplay from the survivor's spot that would allow them in an unused tile to possibly win the tile. The killer needs to either win the tile or force the resource depletion ASAP.
The skeletons are near useless at hitting in every other scenario tbh their strong point is zoning out survivors or forcing them to slow down by crouching giving you time to catch up more
@@Crispy_DAWG they should add a gun for pig, and allow me to shoot survivors in the head instantly ejecting them out of my game and uninstalling their game files, but only for me, it would be totally balanced, but nobody else should have it because it'd be a high skill high reward skillgap for good players like me, who have mastered pig.
imo this sheds a light on the fact that stun reduction as a mechanic fundamentally removes interaction. we can probably agree given the best perks for killer that enduring is not a broken perk but most sane people would concede it's not interesting or enhances the games core mechanics
Currently, Vecna can cast mage hand and the hand will appear on the pallet to hold it, but if the timing is right, the survivor can drop the pallet before the grasp takes effect (kinda like how Doctor can shock you, but you can still vault if you got the prompt early enough.) BUT then the hand immediately picks up the pallet anyways which is super frustrating as the survivor because it looks like mage hand just proc’d both of its effects at once. I’m a little worried that Peanits specifically mentioned stuns because what I’m describing happens without stuns. Maybe you shouldn’t be able to cheese it like with Doctor shocks, but it just feels terrible to see the hand go from grasping mode to lifting mode because it’s like whichever choice you made was the wrong one.
If that happens then you lost the 50/50, so I would just say skill diff there. The one when it stuns you is the cheesy one, because with enduring there is NO mindgame. So id wait for the Vecna change and it would be far more fair for survivor and would probably play out like a huntress hatchet.
The doctor thing is just bhvr spaghetti code, no way in hell a decent enough designer went for that when deciding on paper. It makes no sense for the shock not to work when the surv hasn't initiated the vault yet, i believe it to be more of a technical quirk rather that a design choice. So no, i strongly believe it shouldn't be like doctor, because doctor is simply half baked in that regard, since the outcome in that edge line situation is just "nah mate, it doesn't work"
He needs a reco duration increase between his injury spell and his m1. There should be a standard reco between an injuring or downing secondary attack (like how huntress has a reco time between hatchet and m1) and their main attack. A vecna injur spelled me and immediately m1ed me after like there was 0 reco time.
@amememachine8974 so you're raising the undropped pallet? Still sounds like a bug idk im confused. Im still looking all over the video for scott to do it so i can see what it looks like
@@tacx_2222 you input the control for mage hand, which takes a second to lower and lock the pallet in place. During that time, if the pallet is dropped, the mage hand will instead pick the pallet up
I love how with Vecna, survivors are claiming to be helpless against Mage Hand and are calling it too OP, when characters like Huntress, Artist, Doctor, Pyramid, etc exist. They make pallets completely unusable and are basically a free hit. But with Vecna its a problem for some reason. Survivors can teleport in lockers and be invisible, but Mage Hand is apparently too OP. Sure
You now always get stunned at the pallet with mage hand. It sucks, you can't greed at all and the survivor has full control over the 50/50. It really makes the power quite a bit weaker.
I think his actual strongest strategy is just placing skeletons on survivors. If you angle it so that 2 skeletons spawn on the survivor its an instadown.
It's crazy how you can confidently compare scamper to a literal mechanic in Vecna's kit that allows him to get free hits regardless what you do. Scampers wishes it could blatantly ignore pallets and deny pallets against the opposition. After this "nerf" it's gonna be hardly any discerning differences. Whereas with Chucky's scamper its been completely botched from his kit to being used in any meaningful manner that isn't situational. Because of how linear and very little control you have over directional movement after scamper, there is no mind games.
Even if it gets removed on stuns, isn't it still basically a Chucky scamper situation? I saw plenty of times where you just slightly respected the pallet and they got absolutely nowhere because they didn't stun you.
He still sounds pretty weak to me, but I haven't played him yet. Apart from flight and mage hand he just has nothing, and the cooldowns are still too long to just cycle between those 2. Flight of the damned is still way too easy to counter. But maybe the slow reduction was enough to make him get some hits at loops, idk.
I really don’t follow how this is a nerf or even how exactly this worked in the first place. From what I’ve played I was under the impression that the pallet cannot be dropped if you use mage hand on it. And if it’s already dropped it gets picked up. So was the strat you just face tank a pallet with enduring and then used mage hand to immediately raise it up? If that’s the case how exactly are they gonna nerf that? Disable the ability after a stun? Because that just sounds thumb and will punish people who don’t run enduring. And if that’s not what is happening then what is happening then?
No, you can use mage hand just before you walk through the pallet. And if the survivor drops it at the same time then it will be picked back up and you get the free hit with enduring. The only change is that you can't lift the pallet back up if you use it before being stunned. So there should be 5 scenarios (1: Vecna respects the pallet, the survivor drops the pallet and Vecna picks it back up for a M1. 2: Vecna walks through the pallet but the survivor doesn't drop the pallet so Vecna cancel's mage hand for an M1. 3: Vecna walks through the pallet and gets stunned. 4: Vecna uses mage hand onto the upright pallet so the survivor can make another loop and throw the pallet down 5: Vecna respects the pallet but the survivor carries on running the loop.)
Basically, instead of getting the benefit of the stun and the run around/pallet break and gaining meaningful distance, the survivors would only gain distance from stunning Vecna- and with Enduring, that stun time goes way down. As things stand, if you cast it juuuust before the pallet gets dropped on your head, the small gap between casting and it doing its thing means that instead of holding the pallet up it actually executes on the now-dropped pallet. This yanks it up during the timeframe where you're stunned and you're able to proceed with only a tiny delay for the stun if you're running Enduring. You then proceed to clap those survivor cheeks because their stun bought them like half a second instead of however long it'd take you to actually break the pallet or go around. The change they're going to make seems to be that if a pallet stun is registered in the window between casting Mage Hand and Mage Hand actually doing its thing, Mage Hand will just cancel instead.
STUN SHOULD CANCEL THE POWER BUT NOT PUT ON COOLDOWN SO WITH ENDURING YOU CAN JUST LIFT UP WAY SOONER STILL SURVIVOR JUST GETS MORE DISTANCE SO NO FREE WIN SIMILAR TO SINGULARITY sorry caps. high
I'm just here to see the survivor mains say the nerf isn't enough and the killer mains say Vecna is literally unplayable now, why do Behavior hate killer players so much
Even without the enduring interaction I can tell you right now that mage hand is the new scamper and its incredibly boring. I dont know why he has 0 slowdown for all his abilities. Sure he was clunky, but now he's just stupid. I dont know why behavior cant ever find the middle ground and just swings the pendulum as hard as they can from one side to the other
I’m not sure I love been playing him for about 5 hours now while I haven’t been using this I still have not lost a single game since I started playing him I’m talking straight up 4ks every game I have been getting 3ks but that’s because I just let the last survivor escape through the exit gates
One of the buffs I suggested was that he got slowed down too much after casting a spell but BHVR pushed it from 2.3m/s to 3.68 which is a 60% increase. I would've thought they make him 3 or 3.2 for the cast recovery time. Mage hand just feels like a some-what free hit if you time it right or make the right call
Golly, I wish the same energy was shown for the 9834938493845938439849384394839483948394839483 boring things survivors do every game. Including predrop whether this strategy is in the game or not.
Except it literally is? That's part of the reason they've been consistently shrinking maps and lowering pallet counts. Bhvr's far from perfect obviously, but over time the idea that they're biased one way or the other is becoming more and more detached from the actual reality of the game.
They really hate killers. I mean look at his ability to throw out floating skeletons it's completely useless. You crouch oh look it did nothing. I've gone against several vecna now and the items and the bards ability to see the killer after sitting still for a few seconds makes this killer junk like so many others. They really need to make a killer that's strong and can deal with the toxic survivors that seem to be able to get an edge up against every killer.
I…. Found vecna to be weak… seriously. I never thought of your strategy and…. It’s rough… I don’t get downs that I would have as any other killer… but to be fair… vecna has just came out and I haven’t played him much… on top of me being a casual DBD player… but most killers I get fresh from behavior… I usually get 4k til I’ve played 10-15 games. Not with vecna though….
Vecna's strength is entirely contingent on your map knowledge. He has the tools to be as oppressive as a decent Blight with a portion of the skill requirement, but it is entirely down to knowing when you can use his kit to max effect.
Its funny to me that you say his cooldowns need to be even shorter because to me that feel like they are a bit too short after they buffed him and they should probably tweak it back a little bit. You lost almost no distance when using some of your chase abilities and that is just not OK when you can put yourself in situations where those guarantee hits pretty early on in a chase.
Oh, so they're turning him into a basic M1 killer. Fun. He was only strong because he had strong pallet gameplay. Now that that's gone, he's meh at best.
Vecna okay balance. Skeletons are too easy to dodge. Fly, Dispel, and Mage Hand are better. Hand of Vecna (the one that lets you teleport to another locker) is a little overtuned for Vecna’s current power state. Killer perks suck. Survivor perks are pretty solid. New map is pretty bad for survivors if you defend the top gens.
The killer is pretty op. Skeletons gives guaranteed hits in loops, Mage Hand gives guaranteed hits in loops, he can also traverse maps with ease with Fly, and Dispel provides insane information across the map. Still weaker than Nurse, but he is up there in the OP list.
@@LightBoltDash it's honestly busted, you just need to know how to use it. It can instantly hit as soon as it spawns. You don't want it to travel, you want to cast it on top of the survivor. It's literally a guaranteed hit in loops cuz no one can react to the 0.5s activation time, unless they crouch the entire time during the chase, which is not plausible
I love his mage hand honestly, and I dont think its super op as Huntress and Pyramid head can do the exact same more often and better. I like the mind game you can do with mage hand.
Yeah, I have faced a few good survivors who win the mage hand 50/50. The only change it should get is for when you get stunned, because that just made hits too easy with enduring. New players are NOT going to like facing Vecna I don't think due to his ability to lift up pallets. Also if you win the 50/50 and he wastes his mage hand, he can't do it again for 48 seconds and that is a lot of time.
"Smoother to play" he feels like he's constantly fighting against mud with every action. He feels terrible to play. I don't like him much. He still feels too weak, and the gens speeds were nerfed across the board this patch.
This is whatever to me becuz I havent been running enduring and didn't even know about this and I've still won all my matches with him thus far. I've picked him up quick, and he is a lot of fun.
Off topic but I’m already having Chaos Shuffle withdrawal
Same... Back to the Pop Farm and the Pain Mines we go
Same
I booted up dbd. Closed app when I saw Chaos shuffle has ended.
@@sealman5229 back to the windows crutchers as well. So fucking annoying.
Same, I don't even feel like launching dbd to play since it's gone...
Vecna and Chucky: Nerfed to stop free hits at pallets
Nurse: exists
I mean to be fair how can you fix nurse without totally reworking her. As along as she has her teleport at all she effectively negates nearly all the resource elements of the game.
@@austinrobinson6342 delete her so killer can have good perks
I swear the sheer existence of Nurse infuriates me sometimes
@@austinrobinson6342Yeah but she's been a problem child for over 7 years now it's embarrassing that they still haven't 💀
I’d argue the reason nurse isn’t touched is because of the skill gap required to use her effectively.
I’m not saying it takes months or years to learn, but it is worth mentioning.
As a clown enthusiast, I can empathize with survivors pre dropping from a mile away as a real feels bad
As a good guy,l aficionado, I too also empathise this
@@spiritupgrades
I too also further additionally as well.
@@DrakoWulf
Are you missing the window scamper
@@spiritupgrades
What?
@@DrakoWulf
the window scamper?
It’s crazy how they introduced mage hand in the same update they removed chucky’s scamper
Woa woa woa, they did what now?
@@GoblinSlayerZach can only scamper during slice and dice and the turn rate is not enough often to get hits at loops because of it
@@Kaicho_Fluffy that’s awful, thanks 4 heads up
One unique ive found with mage hand is that if a survivor goes over a dropped palles just as you lift it up it will actually interrupt the vault leaving them on your side timing is hard tho but it is consistent
But they will get lithe if they have it i think cause i did exactly this but the survivor got the speed boost anyway, kinda interesting
@@spritecranberry8952That's better than nothing, especially since DH and SB are very popular as well, making it likely that they *don't* even have Lithe. A guaranteed hit outside of a statistically unlikely circumstance sounds good enough to me.
Yep it happened to me, Me and the Killer were really surpised 😂
Knight can do the exact same thing too but stronger since the guards fully block the pallet, mage hand is basically mini carnifex in a way
Happened to me while playing Vecna, got a down for my timing.
Crazy how we’ve gotten to a point in this game where having to actually break a pallet is considered a nerf
I think having to break pallets has always been not worth it, its a giant time waster and makes chases take way longer bc of the distance they gain from pre-dropping and running.
@@oneautumnleaf2622 its why the strongest killers are able to avoid breaking pallets, and the weakest killers have no interactions with pallets
@@kaiseremotion854 yep wish they would make weaker killers have base kit brutal strength and rework the perk to be something different, m1 killers need a QOL update badly
@@oneautumnleaf2622Loop:
Mind game:
Force them into a different loop:
No way u just said that🤦♂️
Vecna has the best intro trailer scene. 1st 5 seconds put off a MK vibe. Know i cant stop imagining Vecna as Shinnok.
BHVR absolutely had no clue this would work like this, so now they’re calling it a bug
I mean if something unintentionally happens is that not a bug?
No@@HardTahc
@@HardTahc not really, it’s not a bug it’s just BHVR not knowing how their perks and abilities interact. STBFL is a great example, it wasn’t bugged but they didn’t account for how strong special attacks saving stacks would be.
@@HardTahc that's an oversight by their internal testing team I doubt they tested this killer with enduring to see how strong it is so its not a bug
Seems like what a bug normally is
They should buff his cooldowns by making it so when you use a spell, the other spell's cooldowns are reduced by X seconds. This then promotes the player to constantly use different spells when they play Vecna.
They should just make it so when you use mage hand 1 survivor automatically gets hooked when you use another ability a random survivor is mori'd. Vecna too weak
They should make it so that Vecna’s ball actually downs survivors, which then causes other survivors who are 1 meter away from the downed survivor to get Mori’d by 3 other Vecnas.
Sorry about the other kids replying to you. He does not seem like he is in need of more buffs, but it wouldn't be a bad thing. It is a cool idea, but his chase is so powerful already I don't think it would really be useful. As is, you can easily secure guarenteed hits with Mage Hand and Flight of the Damned, and if you land an M1 you can just use fly to catch up to them immediately. If anything needs a buff its definitely not his chase, his cooldowns are fair for how powerful they are. All I want back is the sliding on the fly ability, it feels so clunky to be flying at fast speeds and then for some reason completely stop, when you literally hover and never walk. Cool idea though!
@@vividwizard6166 1 second might be enough to get the flavor without it being big enough to really shift the balance
@@vellycanelly7429 Filthy survivor mains actively campaigning for the game to die
Oh god Hubris with it is a game changer
Ps. Theres a bug with vecna where you might duplicate a pallet because i had an ace drop a pallet i pick it back up and later that same pallet gets dropped and there's both a pallet siting down and upside, and later on that same pallet gets dropped again after i broke it
That's a bug with the new maps, has nothing to do with mage hand they just sometimes spawn 2 in the same spot.
I dont think its a vecna think, i saw it against a wesker
On the new map there are two bugged pallets, one with 2 pallets and one with a giant gap where im assuming the tree is supposed to be closer, or there is a missing object all together in the open spot.
Also, in the dungeon they need to add more hooks, ive only had 2 very far apart down there.
I had that happen to me yesterday. It's on the new map. I vaulted a pallet and the doctor walked between it and a tree. He knocked me down, then turned around and hit the tree.
dead by daylight
John "Dead" BiDaylight
I feel like I know you
ace vinsconti
what a way with words!
this is the most controversial thing i’ve ever heard in my life
Right now Mage hand is his strongest tool in his kit. buttt if you predrop expecting them to pick it up, as a survivor, you can walk/sprint in to the pallet body blocking it, and if your ping is good you will drop it before the Vecna can swing.
I’ve found great success running the bag of holding add on that makes it that 2 mimics will always spawn and the add on that gives you aura read every time you cast a spell and the survivor is near a chest.
mimics suck, once surivovrs learn they can avoid being damaged. for now it may catch some people new to vecna, but its going to suck in the future.
@pvdg3515 It still massively slows down the rate at which survivors are able to loot magic items though. The obliviousness can also catch survivors off guard paired with tracking
@@InTheMisoLoop "massively" LOL bruh please tell me you joking. This add on is trash
3:58 I don’t know if this is in the live build but in the ptb, if you primed an ability you could walk through survivors.
thats what he was trying to do...............
I was really hoping he was going to show a clip of it or something
I am happy this is not intended.
To be fair though, Mage Hand still has counterplay, but you need to have a bit of distance to Vecna in order to participate in that counterplay. If you have a bit of distance to Vecna, the mind game that was present on the ptb is present here too. Which is why I don't get how Enduring gives you free hits almost 100% of the time at the moment, you just have to drop the pallet a bit sooner, or not, if Vecna uses Mage Hand.
Still, I think it's good that this bug is getting fixed.
you need to have some distance on Vecna to drop the pallet safely, if he is behind you and you drop it he just picks it up and hits you. (But with enduring you don't need to respect the pallet drop so the survivor doesn't have an option in most chases. It is like playing against Spirit Fury & Enduring but it is active every time he has his power and you can't pre drop pallets to avoid the hit)
I like Mage Hand because it specifically encourages survivors greed or go for a stun, since they lose if they predrop (you walk through) or camp the pallet, and dont gain enough distance to go to the next tile if they predrop too close.
dndeeznuts idk
Gottem
#DeletePyramidHead
@@JakeobE NEO 🙁
I got a pretty mean aura build i think is pretty fun with his new aura perk with lethal plus franklins demise for more consistant aura value near gens and rapid brutality to play catch up
Why would you run rapid brutality when you can just fly all the way up to them after a hit
@@finlaymarsh2862 I use it a lot just to get around and to catch up to survivors but it's not super fast and it still has a sizable cooldown, it can definitely be replaced no problem with some gen regression or something like hubris for lethality. But I'm just a casual player.
I knew there was a reason i ran into enduring vecnas what was chucky tier boring to vs.
Glad ifs being fixed, i think he needs some number tweeks on cd but mainly it should depend on how strong the spell is.
Vecna feels awesome to play, haven't even used this strategy yet but my chases are still relatively short.
I found rapid brutality to work extremely well on vecna since you're using spells in chase all the time, it helps for the moments when fly is on cooldown
Anyone noticed this pattern of problematic balance being called bugs? Maybe it’s a coincidence but it rubs me the wrong way every time, especially when it’s idk 5 years old and never was once alluded to being a bug… cough plague cough
They have a huge ego problem. All way back when Dowsey drama happened. When they framed his mostly legit (even if a bit emotional) criticism as personal attack and went on a revenge spree
Something similar to this, apparently, Vecna being able to go through survivors during fly was a "bug". While in the same exact patch notes it states that he regains back collision at the end of his fly, which doesn't make sense at all
Obvious huntress comparison: imagine if she got stunned and threw the hatchet instead of canceling it.
Hadn't heard of this, but good that it's gone.
But also on a 45s cooldown
This is literally a thing on pyramid head though
@@Mercer526 Nah, they can just run past or dodge phead
@sorin_markov I mean with ph, if you're holding your power and get stunned with a pallet, if you shoot right as you're stunned, you'll still send the attack and get the hit
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if they drop the pallet as soon as possible after you pick it up, can you not be stunned before you can hit them?
2:08 No it doesn’t nerf anything because nerfing is a balance choice. Bug fixes aren’t balance.
On the survivor side of things, if you drop a pallet and Vecna picks it it back up with Mage hand, you can camp it and drop it back the second it's up, stunning him, because he has a massive cooldown before he can hit you. Also, blocking pallets to prevent a pallet save never works, even with Magic hand duration add on. Truly, one of the killers.
Not sure if it's a bug or not, but the Skeleton spell is extremely op. It can hit people as soon as it activates, so if you cast it on top of survivors, it will instantly hit. If you are in a loop, and close to the survivor, you can just call the skeletons, and it's a guaranteed hit before anyone can react. The only way to avoid is to crouch the entire time of the chase, which is not plausible
Thats not called being OP, thats called a skill gap between those who can land the skeletons at that exact range and those who cant
Additionally just because a survivor cant do anything about a killers power in a 1v1, doesnt mean its op, if anything thats how it should be, you should lose that every time, its an asymmetrical game 4v1
You are supposed to lose badly, in the 1v1
@@Winterstorm91 You're supposed to lose after a certain amount of time. You're not supposed to lose "badly." Even if you're supposed to lose, it's because you depleted your resources or were outpositioned, not because a killer does something that guarantees a hit.
While I don't think the skeletons are the worst part of Vecna (Mage Hand on a ton of loops feels ultra brutal and forces pre-throw & go to next loop gameplay which is zzz), the problem here isn't the skill gap between good and bad Vecnas but rather the effort required to succeed for Vecna vs survivor. No matter how hard something is to do as killer, there should always be equitable counterplay from the survivor's spot that would allow them in an unused tile to possibly win the tile. The killer needs to either win the tile or force the resource depletion ASAP.
@@Winterstorm91You have the absolute worst take and that is definitely not fun or rewarding for anyone
The skeletons are near useless at hitting in every other scenario tbh their strong point is zoning out survivors or forcing them to slow down by crouching giving you time to catch up more
@@Crispy_DAWG they should add a gun for pig, and allow me to shoot survivors in the head instantly ejecting them out of my game and uninstalling their game files, but only for me, it would be totally balanced, but nobody else should have it because it'd be a high skill high reward skillgap for good players like me, who have mastered pig.
imo this sheds a light on the fact that stun reduction as a mechanic fundamentally removes interaction. we can probably agree given the best perks for killer that enduring is not a broken perk but most sane people would concede it's not interesting or enhances the games core mechanics
Currently, Vecna can cast mage hand and the hand will appear on the pallet to hold it, but if the timing is right, the survivor can drop the pallet before the grasp takes effect (kinda like how Doctor can shock you, but you can still vault if you got the prompt early enough.) BUT then the hand immediately picks up the pallet anyways which is super frustrating as the survivor because it looks like mage hand just proc’d both of its effects at once. I’m a little worried that Peanits specifically mentioned stuns because what I’m describing happens without stuns. Maybe you shouldn’t be able to cheese it like with Doctor shocks, but it just feels terrible to see the hand go from grasping mode to lifting mode because it’s like whichever choice you made was the wrong one.
If that happens then you lost the 50/50, so I would just say skill diff there. The one when it stuns you is the cheesy one, because with enduring there is NO mindgame. So id wait for the Vecna change and it would be far more fair for survivor and would probably play out like a huntress hatchet.
Isn't that the whole thing about Vecna? RNG? Like the theme of the DnD chapter itself is RNG based play.
The doctor thing is just bhvr spaghetti code, no way in hell a decent enough designer went for that when deciding on paper. It makes no sense for the shock not to work when the surv hasn't initiated the vault yet, i believe it to be more of a technical quirk rather that a design choice.
So no, i strongly believe it shouldn't be like doctor, because doctor is simply half baked in that regard, since the outcome in that edge line situation is just "nah mate, it doesn't work"
I noticed that the new map has very few hooks, is that a relatable case?
He needs a reco duration increase between his injury spell and his m1. There should be a standard reco between an injuring or downing secondary attack (like how huntress has a reco time between hatchet and m1) and their main attack. A vecna injur spelled me and immediately m1ed me after like there was 0 reco time.
The skeletons have a massive delay and are one of the slowest projectiles. They also have a spread that is very forgiving.
Bigby's Hand IS a concentration spell...
survivor can predrop and if u pick the pallet can block you from blocking it and drop it again
I mean it sounds like a bug. Being able to use your power while being stunned?
He uses the power just before being stunned
@amememachine8974 so you're raising the undropped pallet? Still sounds like a bug idk im confused. Im still looking all over the video for scott to do it so i can see what it looks like
@@tacx_2222 you input the control for mage hand, which takes a second to lower and lock the pallet in place. During that time, if the pallet is dropped, the mage hand will instead pick the pallet up
I love how with Vecna, survivors are claiming to be helpless against Mage Hand and are calling it too OP, when characters like Huntress, Artist, Doctor, Pyramid, etc exist. They make pallets completely unusable and are basically a free hit. But with Vecna its a problem for some reason. Survivors can teleport in lockers and be invisible, but Mage Hand is apparently too OP. Sure
Vecnas mage hand is too powerful it’s a garenteed hit every time
You now always get stunned at the pallet with mage hand. It sucks, you can't greed at all and the survivor has full control over the 50/50.
It really makes the power quite a bit weaker.
I wouldn't say full control, it is a 50/50 scenario similar to huntress, does he pull up and respect? Or does he walk through?
Enduring + Hubris on Lich is just funny
Funny you’re not talking about the buff of survivors getting two pallets per loop now though Scott 😤
bamboozle also makes this hit unavoidable with mage hand. mage hand and bam are extremely potent in funneling a survivor to guarantee a hit.
I think his actual strongest strategy is just placing skeletons on survivors. If you angle it so that 2 skeletons spawn on the survivor its an instadown.
I can't play, getting stuck on "initializing shaders" in the splash screen
it's not a "nerf" if the result was unintentional. They are "fixing" him, not "nerfing" him.
This is just one of many strats of vecna I dont think this will change his spot in tier lists at all
You could also combo that with Hubris, zubatlel did it today.
It's crazy how you can confidently compare scamper to a literal mechanic in Vecna's kit that allows him to get free hits regardless what you do. Scampers wishes it could blatantly ignore pallets and deny pallets against the opposition. After this "nerf" it's gonna be hardly any discerning differences. Whereas with Chucky's scamper its been completely botched from his kit to being used in any meaningful manner that isn't situational. Because of how linear and very little control you have over directional movement after scamper, there is no mind games.
2:15 DUMPY TEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEECH!!!!!!!1!!!!! Hexy would be proud
I miss him... :(
Even if it gets removed on stuns, isn't it still basically a Chucky scamper situation?
I saw plenty of times where you just slightly respected the pallet and they got absolutely nowhere because they didn't stun you.
There also seems to be a bug where another pallet spawns on a pallet?
To quote survivors who defend the crouch bug "it's not a bug it's a tech"
They tried to make him OP on purpose so people could buy the chapter
He still sounds pretty weak to me, but I haven't played him yet.
Apart from flight and mage hand he just has nothing, and the cooldowns are still too long to just cycle between those 2. Flight of the damned is still way too easy to counter.
But maybe the slow reduction was enough to make him get some hits at loops, idk.
He’s hardly weak
I really don’t follow how this is a nerf or even how exactly this worked in the first place. From what I’ve played I was under the impression that the pallet cannot be dropped if you use mage hand on it. And if it’s already dropped it gets picked up. So was the strat you just face tank a pallet with enduring and then used mage hand to immediately raise it up? If that’s the case how exactly are they gonna nerf that? Disable the ability after a stun? Because that just sounds thumb and will punish people who don’t run enduring. And if that’s not what is happening then what is happening then?
No, you can use mage hand just before you walk through the pallet. And if the survivor drops it at the same time then it will be picked back up and you get the free hit with enduring. The only change is that you can't lift the pallet back up if you use it before being stunned. So there should be 5 scenarios (1: Vecna respects the pallet, the survivor drops the pallet and Vecna picks it back up for a M1. 2: Vecna walks through the pallet but the survivor doesn't drop the pallet so Vecna cancel's mage hand for an M1. 3: Vecna walks through the pallet and gets stunned. 4: Vecna uses mage hand onto the upright pallet so the survivor can make another loop and throw the pallet down 5: Vecna respects the pallet but the survivor carries on running the loop.)
Basically, instead of getting the benefit of the stun and the run around/pallet break and gaining meaningful distance, the survivors would only gain distance from stunning Vecna- and with Enduring, that stun time goes way down.
As things stand, if you cast it juuuust before the pallet gets dropped on your head, the small gap between casting and it doing its thing means that instead of holding the pallet up it actually executes on the now-dropped pallet.
This yanks it up during the timeframe where you're stunned and you're able to proceed with only a tiny delay for the stun if you're running Enduring. You then proceed to clap those survivor cheeks because their stun bought them like half a second instead of however long it'd take you to actually break the pallet or go around.
The change they're going to make seems to be that if a pallet stun is registered in the window between casting Mage Hand and Mage Hand actually doing its thing, Mage Hand will just cancel instead.
STUN SHOULD CANCEL THE POWER BUT NOT PUT ON COOLDOWN SO WITH ENDURING YOU CAN JUST LIFT UP WAY SOONER STILL SURVIVOR JUST GETS MORE DISTANCE SO NO FREE WIN SIMILAR TO SINGULARITY sorry caps. high
Yeah getting stunned should cause Vecna to lose concentration on his spell like in actual dnd
barbaric inspiration is the most fun ive had in YEARS
What about your thought on the new map? You got the PhD already to understand how to navigate that garbage?
I never did this, i think hes strong in many other ways. This is completely fine imo, its cheese and the more we remove cheese the better
No, that is 100% a bug since the stun should disable the ability just as stunning any killer in their power negates their power.
You don’t have to think even if this isn’t a thing. Just back up half a meter. Pick the pallet and free hit anyways. Lmao
I'm just here to see the survivor mains say the nerf isn't enough and the killer mains say Vecna is literally unplayable now, why do Behavior hate killer players so much
So doesn't this make nurse's whole kit a bug?
Clearly its a bug, mage hand is a concentration spell, where's the con save?
u will on Billy with his add on and enduring they both cut stun by 50%
Even without the enduring interaction I can tell you right now that mage hand is the new scamper and its incredibly boring. I dont know why he has 0 slowdown for all his abilities. Sure he was clunky, but now he's just stupid. I dont know why behavior cant ever find the middle ground and just swings the pendulum as hard as they can from one side to the other
I’m not sure I love been playing him for about 5 hours now while I haven’t been using this I still have not lost a single game since I started playing him I’m talking straight up 4ks every game I have been getting 3ks but that’s because I just let the last survivor escape through the exit gates
One of the buffs I suggested was that he got slowed down too much after casting a spell but BHVR pushed it from 2.3m/s to 3.68 which is a 60% increase. I would've thought they make him 3 or 3.2 for the cast recovery time. Mage hand just feels like a some-what free hit if you time it right or make the right call
Why was Chucky scamper a problem? It was garbage.
Please sandbag Zubat asap!
the bugs are back
when does this come out
today
"a must run" gotta be one of the dumbest things ive read all day lmao
Golly, I wish the same energy was shown for the 9834938493845938439849384394839483948394839483 boring things survivors do every game. Including predrop whether this strategy is in the game or not.
Except it literally is? That's part of the reason they've been consistently shrinking maps and lowering pallet counts. Bhvr's far from perfect obviously, but over time the idea that they're biased one way or the other is becoming more and more detached from the actual reality of the game.
This chapter isn't fun enough to replace Chaos Shuffle. Bring it BACK
Why no RPD?
If a killer has no counter play,, it needs to be changed otherwise there's no point playing survivor
So thank god its been changed haha
At least they buffed him in release
He should be nerfed though
They really hate killers. I mean look at his ability to throw out floating skeletons it's completely useless. You crouch oh look it did nothing. I've gone against several vecna now and the items and the bards ability to see the killer after sitting still for a few seconds makes this killer junk like so many others. They really need to make a killer that's strong and can deal with the toxic survivors that seem to be able to get an edge up against every killer.
I…. Found vecna to be weak… seriously. I never thought of your strategy and…. It’s rough… I don’t get downs that I would have as any other killer… but to be fair… vecna has just came out and I haven’t played him much… on top of me being a casual DBD player… but most killers I get fresh from behavior… I usually get 4k til I’ve played 10-15 games. Not with vecna though….
Vecna's strength is entirely contingent on your map knowledge. He has the tools to be as oppressive as a decent Blight with a portion of the skill requirement, but it is entirely down to knowing when you can use his kit to max effect.
just dodge then stun and pick it up still u get a hit
Mage hand is insane what am I supposed to do???
Now that ppl already bought it, lets nerf it.
A Bug? in DBD?
Sounds like a bug yeah
Its funny to me that you say his cooldowns need to be even shorter because to me that feel like they are a bit too short after they buffed him and they should probably tweak it back a little bit. You lost almost no distance when using some of your chase abilities and that is just not OK when you can put yourself in situations where those guarantee hits pretty early on in a chase.
Oh, so they're turning him into a basic M1 killer. Fun. He was only strong because he had strong pallet gameplay. Now that that's gone, he's meh at best.
can anyone give me a tldr of opinions on the chapter i have temporary work for 2 weeks and cant play rn
Vecna okay balance. Skeletons are too easy to dodge. Fly, Dispel, and Mage Hand are better. Hand of Vecna (the one that lets you teleport to another locker) is a little overtuned for Vecna’s current power state. Killer perks suck. Survivor perks are pretty solid. New map is pretty bad for survivors if you defend the top gens.
@@BigSlopPie I agree with pretty much everything, but survivor perks are solid? They are pretty horrible lol
The killer is pretty op. Skeletons gives guaranteed hits in loops, Mage Hand gives guaranteed hits in loops, he can also traverse maps with ease with Fly, and Dispel provides insane information across the map. Still weaker than Nurse, but he is up there in the OP list.
@@Pika-ck7ww "skeletons give guaranteed hits in loops" Bait. Mega bait, even.
@@LightBoltDash it's honestly busted, you just need to know how to use it. It can instantly hit as soon as it spawns. You don't want it to travel, you want to cast it on top of the survivor. It's literally a guaranteed hit in loops cuz no one can react to the 0.5s activation time, unless they crouch the entire time during the chase, which is not plausible
I love his mage hand honestly, and I dont think its super op as Huntress and Pyramid head can do the exact same more often and better.
I like the mind game you can do with mage hand.
Yeah, I have faced a few good survivors who win the mage hand 50/50. The only change it should get is for when you get stunned, because that just made hits too easy with enduring. New players are NOT going to like facing Vecna I don't think due to his ability to lift up pallets. Also if you win the 50/50 and he wastes his mage hand, he can't do it again for 48 seconds and that is a lot of time.
@@Chazza-01 yeah to many survivors hard rely on pallets instead of being good at looping windows an tight loopss
i think what they mean with its not intended is not it being a bug, more like they didnt think about it
"Smoother to play" he feels like he's constantly fighting against mud with every action. He feels terrible to play. I don't like him much. He still feels too weak, and the gens speeds were nerfed across the board this patch.
the devs are a joke they always use the bug excuse
oh true
so anyone running enduring is exploiting bugs? hope theres the same outrage from self-righteous killers when it came to survivor bugs.
Time for scott to not play vecna now
Dead by Buglight
This is whatever to me becuz I havent been running enduring and didn't even know about this and I've still won all my matches with him thus far. I've picked him up quick, and he is a lot of fun.
Weak killers is only good for survivors, this will cost people wins in the longrun