Conscientious Objectors - Water - "Wastage" I OUT OF THE TRENCHES
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- Опубліковано 23 бер 2018
- Chair of Wisdom Time!
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» WHAT ARE YOUR SOURCES?
Videos: British Pathé
Pictures: Mostly Picture Alliance
Background Map: d-maps.com/carte.php?num_car=6...
Literature (excerpt):
Gilbert, Martin. The First World War. A Complete History, Holt Paperbacks, 2004.
Hart, Peter. The Great War. A Combat History of the First World War, Oxford University Press, 2013.
Hart, Peter. The Great War. 1914-1918, Profile Books, 2013.
Stone, Norman. World War One. A Short History, Penguin, 2008.
Keegan, John. The First World War, Vintage, 2000.
Hastings, Max. Catastrophe 1914. Europe Goes To War, Knopf, 2013.
Hirschfeld, Gerhard. Enzyklopädie Erster Weltkrieg, Schöningh Paderborn, 2004
Michalka, Wolfgang. Der Erste Weltkrieg. Wirkung, Wahrnehmung, Analyse, Seehamer Verlag GmbH, 2000
Leonhard, Jörn. Die Büchse der Pandora: Geschichte des Ersten Weltkrieges, C.H. Beck, 2014
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» WHO IS REPLYING TO MY COMMENTS? AND WHO IS BEHIND THIS PROJECT?
Most of the comments are written by our social media manager Florian. He is posting links, facts and backstage material on our social media channels. But from time to time, Indy reads and answers comments with his personal account, too.
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5:30 "one car of coal or coke"
I didn't know the soldiers partied so hard
They were T’in up fr fr
A note on the water situation: from Private Charles Macarthur of the 42nd division (U.S.) recalled after the war: "Each dugout was equipped with running water. Sometimes it ran down the walls - more often through the door."
LOL
The courage of these men, to stand against inhumane war will continue to inspire me and others. Thank you Indy for bringing up their plight.
My name is Frank Nicholson and my dad fought in WW1 as I was told. He died in 1961 at the age of 63. I was told that my father and my grandfather(Mom's side) both recieved the Bronze Star for their actions. My dad died when I was 9 so I don,t remember a whole lot. This is an excellent series. Between you and the history guy I'm getting edumacated. Thanks
George Orwell writes in "My Country Right Or Left": "I have often laughed to think of that recruiting poster, ‘What did you do in the Great War, daddy?’ (a child is asking this question of its shame-stricken father), and of all the men who must have been lured into the army by just that poster and afterwards despised by their children for not being Conscientious Objectors."
"Well, Bunky; your father was a war profiteer, which is why we're having surf and turf tonight." Shameful, but eminently satisfactory.
1903, you can read his memories about the war in this essay: orwell.ru/library/articles/My_Country/english/e_mcrol, He was an adolescent at the time and at a posh school, Eton.
"Wastage,' is such a brutal term when thought of from the emotional human side if you think of it applying to the solider. On the other hand, I think it is actually a very direct and useful term in a military command sense. The idea that these deaths (not the soldiers themselves, but the way they died) were a waste seems to at least mean that these were not thought of as acceptable or normal. It's a far better term IMHO than say 'routine casualties.'
There is a key distinction here though, and it depends how the term was used which I can't speak too. Saying a soldier was wastage is very, very different from saying the cause of his death was wastage.
UA-cam will never be the same after this show... The quality standard has been raised!
The Capture of Fort Vaux (Battle of Verdun) was decided by the French defenders’ lack of water. Indy has already done some stellar pieces on Verdun and the surrounding forts, highly recommend.
My great grandpa got out of service in the Great War by putting a pair of underpants on his head and stuffing two pencils up his nose. They thought he'd gone mad.
"Wibble"
That didn't work for me
Well at least it worked for someone
hhaha...priceless !
I DOUBT that is true
Every death in this conflict was wasted
Not Nicholas II's.
No it wasn't.
Tragic, but hardly wasted. It was simply an era when the technologies of offence were less effective than those of defence, yet the politicians, primarily French, insisted on attack to relieve pressure on their own troops.
@@alecblunden8615 yes that true but it was still a useless war it achieve noting apart from tons of dead
Quite true
Chair of wisdom abbreviates to Cow
Indiana Jones watch out big boi
Men, report to the COW about your progress and return to your trench... Hey, Stop Snickering!
i made it.just look at my name
Developed by the Departemente Ou Guerre
Moo. I love Indy. Moo.
Indy- I actually have direct family history RE conscientious objectors. I come from a Mennonite family, and at the time, they were farming in Oklahoma. My Great-grandfather was also the local Mennonite pastor. His oldest son, Johann, was 18, and was drafted, along with a number of young men in their small town. The town was mostly made up of Mennonites, most of whom had immigrated end mass from the same village. My Great-grandfather, with a number of other townsmen, went to the local draft board, to explain that their religion was non-violent, and they could not serve. They were assured the their men would have CO status. They lied. The Army shortly arrived and took the draftees, including my Great uncle. Before long, they were sent to Leavenworth, because they would not aid the war effort, and refused to wear the uniform. Johann died there, probably of flu. His body was shipped home, when my family discovered that he was wearing an Army uniform. My Great-grandfather flipped out. He re-dressed Johann on his own clothes and send the uniform back to the Army. Some of the local non-mennonites found out, and formed an angry posse, which was coming in the front door as my Great-grandfather was going out the back. He went to Canada, and the rest of the family joined him shortly after.
Wow.... You could sell that as a film script.
Thanks for sharing, Laura.
Didn't they have to conscript in Canada during WWII?
Volunteer based until January 1945
I don't know. If they did, they honored CO status for Mennonites. There's a lot of us in Canada, and most of the wheat is grown here, so...
Yessssssss, love your videos!
I love your channel keep up the great work
Random info.
In the British Army, drinking water was sent to the trenches in petrol cans. A soldier was said to be a veteran when he could tell the difference between a BP or shell petrol can based on taste!
source: The last fighting Tommy, Richard Van Emden&Harry Patch
Great video Indy and team!
Have been waiting for an episode about conscientious objectors for a while, thank you crew!
Fascinating as always. I love these excursions.
Love the channel man😎
My grandfather served as a Gunner in the Royal Field Artillery in Mesopotamia. He contracted dysentery and was invalided back to England. Fortunately for me, he fell in love with a nurse on his ward and married my grandmother!
I've been away from this channel for too long! I've missed so much! Definitely going to do some catching up as well. Glad to see h
This channel is still running!
My uncle who served was a conscientious objector for religious reasons. He still wanted to help in the war so he joined the RAMC and was stationed in Ypres in 1915 and the Somme in 1916. I still have a lot of the thank you letters he received from other soldiers
Disease and accidents were a surprisingly common thing during the war. I did a history project some time ago during which I found a very old book written by a city clerk in 1920 that listed the location of every soldier that died from the city. At the time the population of the city was 26,000 and during the war 66 soldiers from the city died, about 1/6-1/8 of them died while at bases in the US or France.
Thanks for the answer Indy!!!
u should make a different intro for OoT like a choir saying "the chaaaaaair of wisdooooooooooom"
Very interesting, thanks mate!
I love you’re videos
Indy I would love to hear about radium gun sights and other unusual forms of optics, thank you for your content, it is very educational, love the channel and pay rises all around on me guys!
I was waiting for you to talk about conscientious objectors. My great grandfather was a CO in WW1 in the united states. He was drafted and became a medic/stretcher bearer. He was quite familiar with engines and when he was in the rear an officer saw him fix the generator at a hospital and pulled him from the medic and kept him in the rear to repair vehicles and engines.
i love this channel>
Awsome vid
Thank you, Indy, for your discussion of "wastage". How awful.
hello flo and indie,i just started watching this series a couple of weeks ago and enjoy great work y’all are doing.
i was just wondering if there are any plans of doing an episode of oott on the contributions of naval and river monitors to the war effort of both sides,thanks.
Happiness is: Watching an episode of The Great War and before you've finished, receive a notification that a new episode has just been uploaded. Thanks!
Hello Indy and Crew, I have loved your videos since the day I first heard of you guys, and I’ve been looking forward to more ever since then. As you might have known by now, as this is the year 2018, it would also be the 100th anniversary of the end of the war. So much has happened after that and i feel that this was a turning point of history in general. Sadly not many people know much about it, apart from what is told in most history classes. I wanted to know if there are any significant biographies or any thing of that sort that would tell us more about how the Great War was like?, as while your videos provide great insight to the events that occurred in the Great War, nothing would give others more humanizing insight as the ones who told about their experiences in the trenches.
Hallo Indy can you tell me more about the battles of Marasesti Marasti and Oituz on the romainian front because I heard they were very important
One of the most graphic account of NZ treatment of objectors is the autobiography by Archy Baxter, in his book, We Shall Not Cease
Easily the best ww1 channel on youtube
A video on French colonial Africa, please. Your fans and subscribers would definitely be interested if you made a video on the French colonies during WWI.
The Rif War would make a great follow-up to the Great War channel. It has the advantage over the wars in Poland and Russia that much of the documentation has survived. At least on the French side. Its disadvantage is that most of the documents are in French.
Ekmal Sukarno that sounds like a great episode
Would love to see something about Cameroon
After the battle of the Somme Canada was running low on volunteers. The Government of Canada instituted the draft in 1917. A lot of people in Quebec did not believe in fighting for Britain. This gave rise to the Quebec Easter Riots. The police arrested a man who refused to report for the draft. A riot broke out in response. It was one of the violent disturbances in Canada's history. Armed protesters fired on soldiers; soldiers returned fire; people were killed.
Naturally, some people who were drafted became contentious objectors. Canada formed a non-combat corp for some. They wore uniform but mostly provided labour.
The Military Service Act was somewhat vague about the exemptions that COs could apply for. Of the more than 400,000 people subject to the draft 385,000 sought exemptions. Almost all of the exemptions were granted. Only about 25,000 draftees made it to the front.
A video of the logistics of trans Atlantic troop transport would be awesome! Keep it up!
You can go to Richmond castle in Yorkshire and see the cells were COs were held. There is still graffiti all over the walls that was left there by them. Its a beautiful but eerie place!
The previous time i commented this early, Franz Ferdinand was still alive.
New Zealand shipped its COs to the Western Front.
We Will Not Cease (1936) Archibald Baxter
Hello, Mr. Neidell, I have been wandering recently - where was the creeping barrage first used. Some sources say Somme, some say during the attack on Adrianople in 1913 during the First Balkan War. Love the show
Take care
Cool
Could you guys expand on the topic of squad roles and structure(like how many rifle men,assault troops,machine gun carriers etc.)between different countries during the war and how they developed?
I'd be a conscientious objector in war to.
My Great Uncle was in the 18th Battalion CEF and he died April 2nd 1917 of pneumonia, a significant percentage of soldiers died from sickness rather than enemy action.
intense episode
On your desk appears to be a Ghurkha Kukri. Any chance of explaining why this particular weapon and a special on the Ghurkhas?
I work with Royal Ghurkha Rifles so would be very interested. Cheers
Compulsory military service (and of course capital punishment for desertion) should be criminal. It directly violates the freedom of the person who is forced to go to fight any war.
nailing history teacher look since 2013
Outstanding question about water supply! The answer may have missed the point.
What about wine (for the French) and beer (for the Brits et alia, Gemans, Austrians, and others)? I know that Frenchs flying escadrilles were supplied with wine and bread by the truckload each week. What about the PBI (les poilus)?
I think we talked about these supplies in previous episodes.
That book behind Indy Neidell’s chair looks like the Necronimicon.
Hey Indy!!! First time on Out Of The Trenches, what was the extent of private purchase in the war. I know officers could purchase, and go in to battle with there own weapons. Did it change for riflemen and infantry? Did it differ from nation to nation? Absolutely loving the show!!!
Hi Indy, At 3.20 I think you mean TYPHOID (which is water borne and occurs in hot conditions) not TYPHUS (which is transmitted by fleas or lice and is usually seen in areas where hygiene is poor and the temperature is cold). Today I attended a county local history day school where we shared our booklet on the Great War in our village and our plans for further work following a 'transnational, approach. All the best to you, Flo and the team, Andrew.
So speaketh the chair.
6:55 that is Canon Frederick Scott, I believe who served with the 1st Canadian Division who lost a son during the fight at Courcelette during the Somme Campaign. He is visiting some the graves of his fellow CEF soldiers.
For moving water to the front the British especially were very good at developing vehicles to get it as close as possible-water is heavy, which is why the code name for their new armored fighting vehicle was to call it after a water "tank"
Send them forth to locate the artillery
I have one for out of the trenches: I often hear of the battles in forts like douamont and vaux around Verdun, but never anything about what was going on in the city itself. We’re the civilians evacuated? What physical damage did is suffer?
Less than 30 minute squad))))))
OUT OF THE TRENCHES QUESTION: I read today in NatGeo about the women in the UK who contributed heavily to science particularly due to the outbreak of WW1. I know you guys have done individual episodes on the more known women like Edith Cavell, Mata Hari and Maria Bochkareva but I was wondering if you guys plan on covering some of the less known contributors like the US Women’s Reserve Camouflage Corps or the Persian Jangal(Jungle) Movement that began in 1915 as result of the Constitutional Movement spearheaded largely by Iran’s women’s population just a few years prior? Thank you for all your hard work.
Martin Gilbert writes an interesting opinion that one of the overlooked reasons why the Israelis performed better vs the Egyptians is the Egyptians low water rations vs the Israelis that made sure their troops were well watered....
On the subject of CO I saw a movie about Albert Einstein breaking the academic boycott on Britain by collaborating (academically) with a Quaker CO in Britain. I could not find any other data about this and I am not sure if this really happened. Could you elaborate more on this indecent and on the academic boycott in general. Love your work.
According to wikipedia he moved to Berlin on April 1st 1914 and was president of the German Physics Society until 1918.
read en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein_and_Eddington - this is a true story
"He was officially elected to the academy on 24 July, and he accepted to move to the German Empire the next year. His decision to move to Berlin was also influenced by the prospect of living near his cousin Elsa, with whom he had developed a romantic affair. He joined the academy and thus the Berlin University on 1 April 1914." Wikipedia is very clear that he was living in Germany at the time. They should do a who did what episode on him. Also according to this documentary he was living in Berlin: ua-cam.com/video/dsKSZsW-ZVo/v-deo.html. Sorry mate you are wrong he was in Berlin at the time of the war.
It would be great if you could make a video on post war condition that forced Germany to lose Rhine land....Also on anti German alliance..
My grandfather was a conscience objector. He was assigned a Model T ambulance, he got shelled.
Hello Indy, here is question for OTT
what is that stuff in the corner over the box?
If this interests you, read this easily readable book:
(It's completely focused on Britain, however)
To End All Wars
A Story of Loyalty and Rebellion, 1914-1918
By Hochschild, Adam
Hello TGW and greetings from Färgelanda Sweden! i got a pretty specific question, how often did Guns jam from bad ammo and how was the quality of ammunition during the war? did it improve during the duration of the war or did it stay the same?
Hello Indy and Crew. I've read of many attempts in history to win battles by redirecting rivers, usually in an attempt to deny the enemy their source of fresh water in some siege. Considering the larely static and attrition based nature of the western front, did either side try redirecting rivers or even little streams to get clean water away from their opposition and towards themselves, and if so how successful was this?
Hi Indy great show i have a question , i am trying to write a novel about ww1 i want to know. The role women in the war and is it correct that there are some women served on the frontline and command troops !?
I am currently doing my dissertation on COs
swiftblaze27 You should title it "A Dissertation on Desertion"
Have you ever heard of the Mack Adam shield shovel
You can't realize how bad war hysteria was in the United States until you read newspapers of that time. Central Illinois, April 1918: "Several Mennonite churches in the west part of the county have been defaced by yellow paint and inscriptions attacking the loyalty of the members of the congregations. The County Council of Defense asks that no further depredations of this character be committed."
Not exactly "Conscientious Objectors", but the following incident shows what the feelings were in the United States 100 years ago: "March 24, 1918: A vigilante committee in Christopher, in deep southern Illinois, tarred and feathered four men found guilty of disloyalty in a makeshift court. A fifth man, who is an attorney, was forced to kiss the American flag, and then was run out of town."
Steve Kaczynski There were cases of lynching of German-Americans immediately after the US declared war: 33, I think. In 1914, there were 418 German language newspapers in the US. I believe none survived the war.
My grandfather spoke German at home when the war began (I am told). After the war, he never spoke German again -- at home or in public -- and refused to teach his children German.
An excellent book on anti-German hysteria in WWI:
Erik Kirschbaum et al., Burning Beethoven: The Eradication of German Culture in the United States during World War I
Link: a.co/0zh86Vg
indy i saw your logo on a battlefield 1 soldier last night on the xbox 1
Hello Indy and Crew! Would you address the issue of lice and other vermin? How did the infestation of the trenches affect the troops? I know that DDT was revolutionary in solving the louse issue, but what was tried before DDT?
A question for Out of the trenches: my great grandfather served in the British Army during ww1 and I wanted to find out were he served as records are hard to find of him, all I know is that he was in one of the Irish battalions and that he died in 1917 from dirty water. From these facts can u try guess where about a he served and eventually died?
Two points: 1) Didn't a lack of potable water affect the outcome of Operation Michael, the last big German offensive that outran its supply lines? 2) In the U.S. conscientious objectors were drafted into the Army, then ordered to do non-combatant work. Since there were no non-combatants at the front, most refused and were imprisoned where several were killed.
I'm asking this question via UA-cam. In terms of size of population and geography, which belligerent nation had it worse on casualties throughout the war?
There's stories of whole communities losing their men in the UK due to the war and a generation virtually lost.
I don't live far from Accrington, the story of the Accrington Pals is very well known in East Lancashire.
Indiana Neidell
There is an estimate that puts the total Ottoman death toll at ~5 million out of a total population of 18.500 in 1914, which means that 27% of the total population had died by the end of WW1.
The decline of Middle Eastern Christianity is only to a small extent an effect of the World War, though. In modern Turkey, for instance, it's mostly due to the Greco-Turkish War in the 1920s.
And yet it only led to a 20 year ceasefire before Germany sparked WW2, 20 million lives lost for nothing and it created the conditions that led to a war that kills 60-70 million.
Steve Kaczynski: Sure. But just juxtaposing those two numbers (1900: 20%, now: 1%) without clarification is really very misleading.
Was gavrilo princip fully aware of what he started while he was in prison? And is it known how he felt about the war.. Love your show. Emil
Dear Andy, question for Out of the Trenches:
what will happen after 11/11 2018 with the Channel, because after Versailles, there is nothing to be done, so what will happen?
Hey Indy & Crew, here's a topic - the Arms Manufactures of the Great War.
All those Michael, Franklin, Trevor, and Me deaths in Los Santos said "wasted" in GTA5 but I suppose we're immortal 🤷
I'm 8:09 , and this is my pawn shop
Will you ever do a special on Alvin C york. the most decorated solider in the Us army during WW1.
Could you please do a video special on Captain Steve Trevor? Do it for April fools day as a joke.
You must do watch the trailer rangroot it's based on ww1 very great indeed
Hey Eastvanmungo so your Grandpa was killed at 19 during the war. What a player! He was getting busy at a tender age! I guess they didn’t have much time to “fool around, ahem”
For the Water question, look no further than Remarque.
U are the best you know everything I'm doing a project On ww2 and I need to know how many times did people try to kill hitler 🤔
Question for out of the trenches: Are there reports of people being injured or killed from the recoil of artillery guns. In most pieces of video footage the gunner seems quite aware of his comrades, but I have seen footage thinking: that was close.
It wil be less than 30 minutes until this is subtitled in English.
and also,
Indy, how much money did everything cost in The Great War?
Light Machine Guns, Tanks, Rifles, Self Loading Rifles, and such?
Edit: The Great War crew needs to manually accept the subtitles I made for the video, and if they haven't been accepted yet than they didn't see I made subs.
I don't understand you.
I'm talking about how much Money everything costed. I now edited my comment to how much *money* everything cost in The Great War.
Neptune, if you're the one doing the subtitling, thank you very much! It is very helpful for those of us with impaired hearing.
comet1970
I don't do ALL the subtitles. Most of the videos are subtitled by the Great War Crew. In side episodes like collabs with Othias and Out Of The Trenches I sub them.
Thanks for the clarification. You still deserve credit for providing the service on these episodes.
What is the picture at 6:47? I’ve never seen it. It shows a British soldier and a german one doing something to a guy who is laying down.
The dad of my grandma fought for the belgians in ww1 and we still have his trumpet and bayonet , his bayonet is serrated , is it commen that soldiers had modified weapons or was it something that the troops did themselves
And another question, how did countries meet the religious needs of their troops? I know that the U.S. has chaplains but were they common in all countries? What about countries with State religions like the UK? Did they have clergy for minority Catholics or Indian Sikhs?
Indy how did pilots in the Great War know where they were going when they were high above the clouds and couldn’t see anything
Indiana Neidell thanks for letting me know
Indiana Neidell hey will my comment be on the next out of the trench’s episode
Only a fool flies into clouds if they are not IFR rated. That's even if the plane has proper instrumentation. Google "graveyard spiral". If you are experienced enough you could duck into a cloud to lose an attacker. However you can get hit with spatial disorientation within seconds unless you have enough discipline to maintain level flight long enough to emerge from the clouds. This has been a major killer of civilian pilots. I've experienced it via induced in training and you get disorientated so fast its truly scary.
A guy in my squad was a Navy pilot in WW2. During a training flight at night at Pensacola FL the flight leader got spatially disoriented by the coastal lighting. The leader had the whole flight upside down without realizing it until another pilot spoke up.The lights would reflect off the inside of the AT-6 canopy, pilots would mistake them for starlight and fly upside down. Your inner ear is the culprit of all this, that and the eyes & brain. That's why its repeated ad naseum to pilots....trust your instruments not your feelings. Your feelings will put you in the dirt real fast.