You’re measuring yourself wrong! // From bustles to bras, a short history of sizing
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- Опубліковано 13 чер 2024
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Citations:
TIME, “Women: No Boondoggling”, Monday, Dec. 25, 1939, content.time.com/time/subscri...
“Sizing in clothing”, Woodhead Publishing Series in Textiles, 2007, www.sciencedirect.com/science...
“Sizing in Clothing: Developing Effective Sizing Systems for Ready‐to‐wear Clothing”, Journal of Fashion Marketing and Management, Simeon Gill, 19 September 2008, www.emerald.com/insight/conte...
“Women's measurements for garment and pattern construction”, Ruth O’Brien; Shelton, William C Shelton; United States. Work Projects Administration; United States. Bureau of Human Nutrition and Home Economics. Division of Textiles and Clothing, 1941 archive.org/details/womensmea...
Overdressed - The Shockingly High Cost of Cheap Fashion, by Elizabeth L. Cline; Penguin; New York; 2012
I think it’s important to mention that the “teeny tiny vintage body type” wasn’t all that common even then. Larger people have always existed it’s often just a survivorship bias in clothing and sewing patterns. Another aspect is that, with American vintage patterns, often children’s sizes were done by age and that number just increased from girls to young women to women’s sizing. So a size 12 was often the same as the size for a 12 year old girl, which is why the measurements seem so small. Even now sewing pattern sizes are not the same as ready to wear, and they changed throughout the second half of the 1900s to increase as well, but there is at least some form of logic as to where the numbers start.
As someone who alters clothes quite a bit, it's very hard to upsize clothing but simple to take it in. Even if the larger clothing wasn't worn out in its original size, it would have been altered smaller. And not the other way around.
@@artesiandifferent Exactly!! Larger clothes can be made into smaller ones which can be worn by fewer people so it makes sense that the tiny sizes survive. It’s very hard to upsize anything.
@@9786oof Absolutely people historically were shorter, looking at time scales of over a hundred years, but short height and higher weight are not mutually exclusive. There is a lot to be said for the change in humans’ bodies as we’ve started to meet our nutritional needs more completely, as was mentioned in the video, but for much of history fashion was about a shape rather than a size. External structures were incorporated into clothing to create a fashionable shape rather than expecting peoples bodies to change to fit fashion, as is common now. Particularly looking at vintage bodies (30-100 years ago) they aren’t so different from modern ones, but we see a disproportionately large sample of smaller people in photos, and in the samples of things that survive because they’re not able to be used by as many people. I hope this makes sense!
Yess yess the silhouette was more important than the size of body , the tiny waist was an illusion made by bustle pads and lace pigeon fronts and corsets (not restrictive ones ?
@@jl2280 There also weren't as many food additives as there are now, but yes, people were a bit smaller in the past due to many not having as much access to food (especially highly fattening food) as we do now.
Hearing the UK's child labour laws always makes me laugh, because they're always been a massive loop hole for parents. My dad put me and my brother to work in knitwear factory from the age of 4 (in the 90s); because you don't have stick to the law if it's your own kids and don't pay them, (that just childcare 🙄).
Our lungs are smeged from the cotton fibers, and we almost got scalped and crushed by have to go under the fast moving tons of iron to reattach broken threads, and honestly working the overlockers and sewing machines was the safest thing we had to do. (Most kid's get told not to run with scissors, we got told to work with sheers).
We made jumpers for H&M, M&S, next, and British homestores.
Kids are still doing these jobs, it's just shifted to countries where it's easier to get away with large scale employment of them.
❤ I have a friend whose parents own a chemical bottling company, she also tells stories of her childhood “work adventures/near calamities”.
That was not legal.
My step dad was a migrant farm worker picking cucumbers at 4yrs old. (Yes him, his parents & grandparents were US citizens)
@@lydiamahoney177 idk about the UK, but in the US looking at how farmers operate and how my grandparents grew up.... I can absolutely see this happening in the USA
In the 90’s?!?! 😳😳
“Making everything more complicated, since ever!”
Nearly choked on my tea at that one!
Yeah, same, and provided a timestamp laugh warning to a friend I shared it with :)
I literally gave the screen a thumbs up lol
😂😂😂😂
Mmmm,... tea sounds good...🫖🏃🏽♀️
I was a fit model for a certain giant sports bra conglomerate (and others) and it is WILD how long it took for them to figure out there were sizes outside of a 32B.
A certian online clothing retailer puts all their models in the same brasize 34C/D, even when the brand has a large sizerange, they literally have petite models and plus size models wearing the same brasize...
@@l.c.8475 Sounds like the one where Vicky has a secret.
Never shopped from them as a German but I've heard some stories.
@@DieAlteistwiederda it's Zalando, it does seem like they stopped giving the model's size for newer product listings, they're still wearing illfitting bras with way too small cups resulting in buttcrack cleavage
@@l.c.8475 isnt the point of the photos to make you want to buy the things? like im not buying something if it look terrible on the model they chose
another part of what makes choosing sizes so frustrating is that when clothing is shown in advertisements or on celebrities, the clothes have been altered. so a person tries on what they've seen in a photo and liked on someone else, but none of the sizes are recreating what they expected, even when their bodies types are similar.
To be fair: women of all classes wore corsets and I'd argue that if you've got a well-fitting one they're quite comfortable. I also personally find it easier to pattern and sew with a corset as a base rather than my own body with only a bra and stockings as underwear
Yep! I blame constant slander in popular media (& the relevant actresses complaining about their horrific experiences with badly fitted, cheaply constructed garments..) People frequently seem to forget that for a big chunk of the European world, a corset or stays wasn't some high-fashion speciality item - it was just that era's equivalent to our modern bra!
@@annastevens1526 I think the waist obsession of 20th century reinforced the opinion that corsets were torture. The few people who were wearing them for fashion and film were being given undersized garments and cursed out for not fitting them.
Honestly I was ready to click off the video once I heard her talking about corsets. Makes me question how much to trust what she says. After doing and watching a lot of videos and research on them myself.
Women of all classes wore corsets, but working women did not tight lace them so their body shape would not be dramatically changed, that would only apply to some young rich women (who haven't been pregnant).
I love the support of a good corset, but I'm not looking to make my waist 4 inches smaller, so even if I wore one every day, my body would stay its own shape.
Totally agree on the comfort of a corset, especially when needing strapless support!
As a curvy/chubby woman, I very much appreciate this video! Will definitely have to check out the bras. eShakti is fantastic, they've got a wide range of standard sizes, and can make items to custom measurements. Everything has pockets, unless stated otherwise. (Which is rare.) Also, you can customize the length, sleeve length/type, and neckline/collars on nearly everything! I have several of their dresses & love the more vintage style they offer. They do have modern, fashion forward pieces as well as casual & comfort items. Think custom sized jeans & leggings! 🤯
you had me at 'everything has pockets'!
I do love a pocket!
Also a bit fan of eShakti. Got several dresses from them. One place as a curvy/chubby woman that keeps tripping me up is Amazon. I think 90% of their sizing is from is Asian and so tiny. I actually now always look at any size chart provided because what they are putting up as XXL might only be a UK size 14 which I can’t squeeze into.
I haven’t ordered anything from eShakti in many years, but I was so disappointed to see they did not use interfacing in their waistbands. And, while the skirt was way off in the waist measurement, it was the first non me made clothing item that was actually long enough! It *touched* my knees. Wow!
I’m glad they are able to address the needs of some of us, and I’m sure their process has improved during their maturation.
Was half expecting a collab with Bernadette Banner in this one. Also those bras look super comfy! I love how wide the band is!
Nicole Rudolph also has a video about sizing that I thought would come up.
Oh my goodness I love Bernadette Banner, and the band is AMAZING!
Gender Free World is a great online shop where I get my shirts from. As a butch-ish lesbian I like to wear a smart shirt from time to time but often have issues with my bust and/or hips getting in the way, especially with a shirt made for men. GFW have a selection of size types depending on bust/hip type. It’s so nice to wear a shirt that doesn’t gape in odd places. Also they are based in Brighton :)
Ooh, interesting thanks for the tip.👍😊
Thanks for the rec! Trying to find masculine shirts that fit my bust is a pain, and I always want to know where to look
Honestly, as someone with a larger bust even finding FEMININE shirts that don't gape is an endless epic quest... 🙈 I'm working up my courage to finally try sewing my first shirt, based off one I finally found that fitted!
That's a great tip! ✨
Oops, you already said Brighton...
Reading comprehension went out the window in my excitement
I order my bra's from another country because my own doesn't want to accept diverse body shapes and sizes. I sometimes feel that they think they can force people to be thinner if they just keep selling small sizes. When about 1 third of the women have larger sizes than is on offer in our stores. It's insane.
Not to mention the small sizes don't even fit us smaller people!! I literally have never had a well fitting bra until a few months ago and I'm in my mid twenties
@@Cloudy4Days Yep, another smaller busted gal here, up until very recently you couldn't find a 32 band size anywhere but the kids section so I had to order mine from AliExpress. I'd really recommend looking on there for cheap bras when you need one, the one I got is still doing well even though it was $4.50. Basically, if you as a person have a body that deviates from what is considered to be a standard size and/or shape, you can just be naked or ugly according to clothing manufacturers.
I am 42JJ/K. I live in Czechia and all my bras are from USA or UK. Because here the sizing just ignores me. While every smallchested person can buy their bra anywhere. Loving it :/
@@peggedyourdad9560 I actually just bit the bullet and spent the money for Pepper bras, I didn't actually realize how bras were supposed to fit until I got them! And now my shoulders hurt a lot less
@@Cloudy4Days Oh really? But yeah, something like 80% of women are actually wearing the wrong bra size, this might be the reason behind the hate. Obviously you’d find something uncomfortable and hate-worthy if it doesn’t fit lol. Cup shape is also important because one shape can look and feel good on some breasts and be the exact opposite on another. Band thickness can also be a factor in comfort, I personally find a much thicker one more comfortable since it gives good support and lift to the girls.
I always carry a paper measuring tape in my wallet to measure clothes (epecially in 2nd hand shops) before even bringing them to the changing room.. always know your measurements saves quite some time and money. And also, altering tailors are the best thing for nicely fitting clothes. And it is not just making stuff smaller, nononono, making clothes bigger or longer is doable as well! Just have a scroll through "Downtown Tailoring" here on youtube, that woman is a magician.
this is incredibly smart, and as someone who gets tired really quickly while shopping, i'm so grateful to you for sharing this tip! thank you!
Honestly, I actually find that most clothing isn't even cut to fit an hourglass, but rather, cut to someone with no bust or hips whatsoever. Even if you do have the general bigger bust/hips than the waist, often there's just not anywhere near enough space in the top and bottom for a garment to sit nicely, especially when you are just a large person (woes of scandi life)
Also a thing thats really important to note in terms of bras, that is literally never seen on any single chart I have ever perused? Depth. How deep is the cup, is a very important question to ask, and means that in my entire big mall nearby, there was ONE store that sold ONE brand that had a deep enough cup for my bust.
And that brand of course cost twice as much. Agony.
I used to be heavier and smaller and am more muscular now. At all sizes, I have trouble finding clothes that fit. It seems that butt and leg room is associated needing extra stomach room; extra bust room is associated with needing larger shoulders, arm holes, and stomach room. At the same time, they've been removing crotch panels from pants to save money on fabric at the factory, so unless you are wearing several sizes up, it won't fit. Leg room seems to suffer from something like this, too. Clothes are often shorter now than they used to be, too. I think the change in industrial practices is part of why finding decent clothes can be a pain for all of us.
As for bras, I never thought of the depth, but that is an issue! Another problem I have is the space between breasts. I'm a 32D, so my boobs are naturally closer together since I have a small ribcage. My boobs fall out of soooo many bras, and full coverage ones will look all lumpy since my breast will be in the wrong place. Why can't be have sizes like men's pants with options like they do?! Ughhh
I find exactly the same thing. I am happy about the legs of pants getting shorter than when I was younger, but not happy about shirts and sleeves running shorter. I don't want to show off my back or stomach when I reach for things
Cup depth, yeah that really oughtta be a thing, I've got a very wide bust but there's usually wrinkles in the cup once I get the underwire the right size for my boobs.
As someone with almost no bust and hips, I understand where you're coming from, but most fitted women's clothing gapes on my chest (which honestly makes me feel like a failure of a woman, especially when people just laugh and say I should wear children's underwear, at age 24). Believe it or not there is a shape "too flat" to be catered to in shops, and when people imply that that's not the case, it makes me feel like I don't exist or unqualified to be a woman somehow.
@@marleylayton1950 Yikes, that's really inconsiderate for people to laugh at you. It should be a choice to wear children's sizes (like when they get the coolest t-shirt designs and the ones for adults are boring and not cute), not a last resort out of desperation
As a professional statistician... i too struggle to pronounce my own job title sometimes.
At my workplace they just call us the "stattoes" 😂
You should check out A Bra That Fits subreddit and their calculator! They are inclusive community that help with bra fitting and have a lot of great resources.
Yes, I agree (commented for algorithm reasons)
@@annakilifa331 Thank you!
I was looking for an ABTF comment. I'm so happy it's here :)) Represent!
Been so helpful for me too!
Yes! It’s such a helpful resource, I just wanna recommend it to everyone both here and in real life hahaha
I'm a huge fan of Wilde Mode! They are a small indie business who do basically any size and are friendly to all genders and to disabilities. All their clothes are seam and label free to make them extra comfy for ND people as well 😁 I have one of their custom bras and it is the most comfortable thing ever!
thanks for the rec! I like the look of what they call 'comfort tops'
I really like the look of this place, wish I didn't live across the pond! Particularly the conscientiousness regarding ND people with sensory issues, because seams in particular drive me up a wall. I hope they keep growing!
I'm not ND (excluding ADHD) and I cannot stand labels or seams. i wear my underwear and my socks inside out. I still dont understand why women's underwear are made with a front seam right where it is the MOST uncomfortable on the vulva.. usually near the hood. It can agitate the vulva so much that it becomes sometimes literally unbearable to wear. Just make smooth seams with a CLOSED gusset lining. How hard is this?
It's always surprising exactly how off you can be in your bra size. The bra calculator from a bra that fits is eye-opening.
maybe I measured wrong but it suggested something like 40H UK...I'm a 40F it turns out (in most brands). so ymmv
Second this! Everyone should try it, even if they end up not trying on the new size.
This is probably one of the reasons I love winter.... Good knitwear with ribs in the right places fits like a glove even when I loose or gain half a stone, or have a bloaty day or week.
I knew it couldn't just be me that was anything from a 6 to a 14 depending on the brand on the same freaking day!
The worst is when you're a different size within the same brand 🤯
this history of fashion is fascinating.
though i wear (mostly) mens clothing and have since i was a kid, and am therefore used to small, medium and large sizes - i have had to measure myself for a binder and feel the pain of chest measurements. this is also how i learnt i have atypically large shoulders for an afab individual lol.
same though. i'm afab and identify as a woman but i generally can't wear women's clothing because while i'm relatively slim, i'm also tall and broad. i have gained a some weight recently and suddenly need a properly fitting sports bra for the first time in my life and i had to buy it at a specialty bra store because the S, M, L sports bras at most stores just don't work and big bands with A cups are generally not produced. Just for funsies i looked up my size on the store Jessica advertises in this video and they also don't sell my size.
i hope you found a binder that fits you right and makes you feel good in your body
Hello, I am here to learn all the LGBT in's and out's, I am bi but I live in a small town with one bar which is "country" and male and female are the only sexes they believe in. So my question to you is... (if you do not mind teaching this one thing )..... What is afab? Thank you in advance and Have a very happy day!!
@@bloodlacerose1688 AFAB is an acronym meaning Assigned Female at Birth. This covers many identities, and might include some intersex people too, but in general it's a way of talking about people whose doctor marked an F on their birth certificate for any reason.
Thanks for taking the time to learn!
@@ellingeng Thank you too.
oh gods yeah, binder measurements are a nightmare if you have abnormal proportions! i have big shoulders too, as well as a 38in bust circumference and a 30in underbust (which recently went up from *28in*)
i have to wear a bra for support when i'm not binding so i'm familiar enough with bra sizing to know that my size essentially does not exist in normal brands/stores lmao
The confusing women's sizes is why I never buy clothing online without looking at their size chart... I have a fairly pronounced hourglass shape, so finding things that fit my bust, waist AND hip is quite difficult. I'll have a size medium waist but an XXL hip. 😩
If it doesn't show waist, bust and hip measurements, I don't even bother. Poshmark is nice for that because you can ask sellers to measure their garments.
@@artesiandifferent it drives me up the wall when online shops don't have a size chart, or make you run all over their website just to try to find one. Or, they *do* have a size chart, but it's for a different type of clothing, and not the clothing you're looking at
yeah those so called hourglass standard sizes aren't even standard for hourglass people half the time??? nightmare land truly
I'm the opposite, my hips want me to wear a north american women's size 8, my boobs want to be size 12 and my waist wants a size 16. They're darn close to the same measurement, I am a brick with boobs... men's clothing usually fits me fine though.
Me tooooo! My waist is like a 2x but my hips are a 4x 🙈 And let’s not forget t-shirts, those nasty straight things. I just don’t even bother anymore - I either have to cut them short or get used to a tent in the shoulder area
Snappy Dragon has a fantastic video on Victorian second hand clothing market and the impact of ready wear clothes!
Also, shout out to Collectif for having the most consistent sizing chart I've encountered in years!
I wonder if the hourglass is the "standard" because it's easy to pad out to. I know historically that was often the solution if you didn't have the Exact Right Proportions (which even back then they acknowledged you weren't likey to have)
That shape is generally considered most desirable through history and in various groups-- anthropologists have studied this in all sorts of groups and tribes around the world, and it seems to be a biologically-driven and socially-reinforced preference. You are right as far as padding goes since no matter your size, you can make your butt/hips/bust larger to make your waist appear smaller to give the hourglass look. (I said "generally" since different places at different times have found other body types more desirable from time to time, leading to fashion and behaviors to get "the look." Social influences can outweigh biology when it comes to women's bodies and bodies period.)
Honestly, history has been WAY better than our modern era in recognizing that whatever the current "ideal shape" is (for guys OR gals), most people just aren't that. Padding, underpinnings, and huge use of perspective tricks were how they achieved the fashion.
With our modern close-fitted clothes, non-structured fabrics and limited layering, the emphasis has shifted to reshaping the body beneath... Something which is frankly a lot less achievable for most people!!
That's one thing I really appreciate about the current resurgence of interest in vintage/historical fashion & hone sewing. People of all genders are discovering styles that better suit what they're comfortable with, and hopping off that fast fashion merry-go-round!
For larger cup bras: Reign and Molke. They're both wireless but super supportive and much more comfortable!
It's great to hear about a place to by bras with a wider range of sizes :D I learned to sew my own since I couldn't find anything in my size that would fit comfortably. (small waist with a large bust)
I really wish they gave an underwire size for some of the commercial bras. I learned from sewing my own bras, that you need to fit the underwires for the correct shape and length to yourself, as well as having the correct measurements for cup and band to get a good fit. Though I also totally understand why people may prefer to go without a underwire as well. :)
I have been trying to make a comfortable bra for about 50 years. I have yet to suceed. How did you do it? Did you find help, books, patterns? My closest to comfortable has been a type of stays or corsety 1970's bikini mix. I would really appreciate any info you can give.
@@julietokumaru3855
For free resources take a look at Liz Sews on UA-cam. You can learn a whole lot for free from her. She covers how to sew many of the popular patterns, and how to make adjustments to the patterns for a better fit. Also there was good videos on UA-cam for learning to use the underwire guides to size what underwire should fit you. Bra maker's supply also has a blog where they have a lot of information about making adjustments, converting the style, etc.
My favorite pattern is "the classic" from Bra Makers Supply. The owner of that shop (Beverly Johnson) has a video series on Craftsy. I find this one puts more weight on my shoulders and fits perfectly everywhere else. I don't think I can avoid any pattern from putting any weight on myself at all. (Im a buttom cup depth 4.75 in the classic, and 32G in the black beauty bra).
I also made a few test ones before I got it fitted exactly to my body (since everyone is a bit different). I usually need to adjust the angle of the backband, some patterns I made the straps wider (partial fabric straps, you can also pad the staps). If you make your own adjustments you can also make each cup size slightly different depending on your needs.
Another good pattern is The Black Beauty bra from Emerald Erin. That one only goes up to a G cup though. It also seems to project more in the shape of it than the other pattern I mentioned, and puts more pressure on my waist.
I've been thinking of trying out a corset pattern as well to have a strapless option, and something to compare to for comfort. The weight on the straps (even thick ones) makes my arm/hands tingle from the pressure. It usually goes away right away if I take off the bra, or slide the straps off, but that's also really uncomfortable without support.
I hope this helps! :)
I can't tolerate a tight underbust band and my boobs sort of wrap around the sides and get in the way of my arms so I'm trying to make the top half of an "athletic" corset with some changes to the boning to encourage them to stay up front and centre instead of migrating to my armpits. The last bras I bought felt ok except I still need to get the underwires bent just right so they don't stick out and poke me in the arms, cause guess what? My ribcage isn't flat, it's cylindrical! I wish I knew more about bra making and underwire sizing so I might check out some of these resources, thanks so much!
@@kstetson Thank you, so much. You have given me more useful help than anyone! I found Liz Sews and watched as many as I can so far. She is great. Now, I a really understanding that the shape and size of the underwire is the most important factor to get right. I ordered the Black Beauty Kit from Emrald Erin. She helped me find a wire to try according to my measurements and breast shape. Who knew that breast shape mattered so much? She put me in a 32G. I can't wait to get the kit and get started. THis feels like it may be a life changing event! THank you soooo much for your help. I had really given up.
I just have one thing to say to you ..... I love your sarcasm ! Have a lovely day !!
That shade of green is so beautiful on you! 😍🥰 Thank you for all this info on bras. I really need to buy new ones because I'm down to... Um... One. 😂
"People...who do...statistics." 10/10 comedy gold
That was so funny!
OMG I FOUND YOU GUYS!! I FOUND IT!! my french teacher always uses a gif of you two captioned “who am i” whenever we are talking about describing ourselves in french. i always thought like “oh they would be such a cute couple!” but never thought about it too much, and NOW I FOUND YOU
Omg.. I need bras! HOW DID YOU KNOW?! Especially as a person with chronic fatigue. .getting to a shop. .fighting the crowd.. finding a bra. .and then TRY it. .is often just ..too much for me so this looks like a small god-send. Especially the comfy ones for the days I just don't have the energy to even take it off to sleep. Thank you Jessica!
I like Cosabella’s Curvy (28DD-40H) Super Curvy (30G-36H) and Ultra Curvy (30I-36L) ranges for larger busts compared to band sizes and are wirefree, some are pullover. They also have the usual standard and petite, but also other ranges for larger frames (band sizes).
I just got top surgery so theres no reason for me to watch this but i enjoy your content so much i figured might as well lol 😄
Congrats on your surgery 🎉
@@jesslikescoffee24 thank you so much, its been life changing!
Congrats!!!
@@YourPartnerInCrime thanks!!
Yes, i love fashion history!!! It sucks being an american plus size person who is a fan of vintage style, so many of the clothing brands that do the vintage styles I like have a very limited size range! Even if they say they go up to a 6X, its rare that they'll have enough in stock- and as you pointed out a UK size 6X fits more like a 3X in US sizes. I'm a US 3X so you can imagine how difficult it is to find clothes ;_; I have gotten very into sewing my own garments lately, but if anyone has recommendations for vintage clothes that actually fit plus size folk like me send it my way!!!
On another note, highly recommend Snagtights! Their sizing is great, and their models have lots of plus size and disabled representation. The tights still get pilling and occasionally thin in places like the thigh area but the fit, colors and size range is still well worth it imo! They have basic tees, skirts and swimwear now too but I haven't had a chance to try those yet (they're quite expensive)
Emmy design make vintage style clothes up to european size 52 (US 24, which seems to be US 2X-3X).
@@susannejohansson8670 ooh, yeah even looking at their size chart it seems like some of their items are even roomier, thanks for the shout! They're pricey but i'll definitely keep them in mind 🥰
Torrid and Pennington's is my favourite clothing brand
I finally got around to measuring myself properly in 2021 and found out that I was wearing a whopping 2 sizes too small! No wonder I was constantly spilling out everywhere and feeling like my underwire was pinching me! I actually bought my first "correct" bras secondhand because I couldn't afford to just full-on replace all my bras, and it turned out that I didn't even need that many because now all my bras worked for all my outfits because all of them fit properly. I still live off 3 thrifted bras lol.
Even being hourglass can be difficult - having something that fits on my hips will make it loose at the waist, and shirts never have enough room for my boobs! I rely on bravissimo - it makes shirts and tops (as well as bras) in various cup sizes so you can find something that fits.
Yes! So many clothing companies make clothes just for a straight up and down figure and it’s so frustrating!
I don't have the boob issue but yes to the hips. I fit trousers and skirt to my hips. This leaves me with loose waist on them and skirts that are too short still.
This was truly FASCINATING. Thank you for such a thorough and interesting look at the history of sizing!!
I'm glad you enjoyed it! ❤
I recommend looking in the sister sizes for bras. Cup volume changes with band size traditionally. Sister sizes are based on actual cup volume. Examples: you said your size is a 28DD, that has a cup volume of 390cc. Other sizes with the same volume are 38AA, 36A, 34B, 32C, 30D and 26E. Most people stick to the cup ans change band size when things don't fit but a the cup of a 26DD has a volume of 310cc and a 30DD has a volume of 480cc in comparison to 28DD/390cc cup volume. This information is exceptionally helpful when trying different cuts of bras like if you're trying a strapless or demi cups.
While sister sizes do hold the same volume, if you size up in the band more than one or two sizes, you’re probably gonna end up but a band that is too large to provide any kind of support, and therefore rides up and rubs against your skin/moves around in an uncomfortable way.
This is great! - except when it's not like for me personally: if I deviate from my band-size my bra's fall off 😢 This happens because I have huge breasts and a much, much smaller frame benath. I am not a small sized person overall, but directly under the bust I seem to be. So if I to a sister size with a larger band, the bra will fall off and if I "go down" I won't be able to close it... The heavy breast I have need the exakt size so that the bra holds me up, and doesn't just sit on my frame. //a heavy-chested European 75 M
I find this information most helpful when trying to find the best fit in different cuts and make of bras as band size is not as consistent as cup size between manufacturers. For example you try your regular size but it's not right, shifting around on a sister size chart and what of the hooks you use can change things a lot. Also many women don't know where there bust line belongs in relation to there clothes. Proper foundation garments fundamental change how clothes fit and feel. It's why couture and bespoke garments often have a real bra built in to the piece for the perfect fit. I was a bespoke seamstress but I'm now disabled thanks to EDS.
I love that all the patterns are the same. I always know what I need to change when I make things for myself
I just learned about "vanity sizing" as a thing and am even more confused than EVER because, say, in one famous brand, I am wearing a "29 inch waist", aka size 10 in the US, but that 29 inch waste is 38 inches if I put a tape measure around my actual body, so either I'm measuring all wrong or they're also fully lying when they say 29 inches, they do not actually mean that? I also find it fascinating how this size 10 is radically different being 5'10 inches tall vs, say someone who is just 5 feet tall. One of us is lean looking and the shorter woman may be a hot curvy lady making the visual look, fit, and feel of the fabric very different. All I can say is with EDS and POTS and wrist surgeries, I keep my bra band clasps together and step into them, shimmying them up my body, because my widest body part is the boobage (hips/waist are more boy same size.) It's been a game changer! lol
I've just learnt that I'm afab which is fab😄 and I gave up with women's clothes decades ago, they just feel unnatural to me. Occasionally get told I can't use the men's changing room in M&S but mostly no-one notices.
Jessica: Why isn't there a universal measuring system?
Me, who studies fashion: I wish I had an answer, but even my teachers can't quite explain it
I just find a few brands that have consistent sizing that fits me and then I compare sizing charts of every new brand I encounter to those that I am familiar with.
Been working most of the time so far :)
*P.S.* medium-sized adult legwear generally fit me so I just order whatever's cheaper regardless of gender.
I got so done with clothing that I asked my mom to teach me how to sew. Biggest upside: pockets. Another one is everything fits so well and I can decide everything about it.
I REALLY appreciate the amount of research & work that you put into each of these videos ❤
As I'm watching this video I am cutting out a Butterick pattern. The size 22 pattern is approximately a size 18 in ready to wear clothing. Taking into consideration that my body is not standard (5''11", 250 lbs.) I find it very challenging to alter patterns to fit me.
I've found that modern Butterick Patterns don't run true to size - they fit more loosely than you would expect from ready made clothes that are advertised to fit the same body measurements, and from other pattern companies (Simplicity, McCalls) sizing for those same measurements. Maybe that's not the case with your particular pattern, but do be ready to do some fit adjusting
Eye-opening!! Thanks for your quality videos always ✨
Thank you for doing this video. I suffer from severe PTSD and there are some days we're wearing a bra just makes me too claustrophobic because the elastic is too tighter cutting into me. Wearing a tight tank top doesn't work because of the tank top is too tight then I might as well just be wearing a bra. I'm going to check into this company this afternoon and might be making some purchases cuz Lord knows I need some new bras and I really like that blue nighty that you held up to yourself
Some days I have trouble with my bras because of neck , back and arm pain. I cannot go without anything, except maybe in the winter when I can hide under a sweatshirt and bulky coat.
If you need specific recommendations, r/abrathatfits is a great place full of knowledgeable people
@@stacyzlotnick6697 have you considered a bralette? They offer some coverage but they don't take the weight of your breasts and transfer it to your shoulders and back like bras do. Going without a bra is best because it will strengthen your chest muscles, which are the muscles that naturally should hold up your breasts. Bras are really bad for us because they put all the weight on the shoulders, neck and back, which is unnatural.
Why was I so into that ad 😂 I felt like I was watching a documentary. Thanks for the plug.
I am a woman and i refuse to wear anything made for the female body apart from mostly stretchy trousers/jeans/leggings/shorts.I havent bought a bra in 6 years because i simply dont want to wear normal bras ever again and anything that goes on my upper body is stretchy or/and enough bigger than what my body is.I am so glad we have evolved way past the victorian and edwadian era.I mostly wear men's clothes on my upper body because i prefer hiding a bit my natural shape and i have made some clothes for myself in a way that i actually want them to fit me.I am very early on my cloth making journey so far but i am glad i started
I wear simple sports bras. Wear men's trousers and have an androgynous look, so I don't have any fashion recommendations. But this was a cool history lesson.
In Australia it's pretty difficult to get bras for larger cup sizes (especially with smaller band sizes), and most of them get imported and end up costing AU$80 or more. I recommend checking out Brava Lingerie (in person or online), get fitted or follow the video guide, check out some fit reviews, and then you can look for those brands elsewhere online if you want to try to get them cheaper. (Usually the shipping brings it up to the store pricing anyway, but good luck!)
This was very informative and well researched; thank you for taking all that time to so well inform your public!
This is so interesting! Thank you for this video. The bras looks comfortable. ❤
Always learning things that are not taught in schools
Thanks Jessica.
I adore my Redthreaded Regency short stays. I’m between their sizes and ended up getting custom made stays with my measurements. I wear them as a long line bra and marvel at how my bust is contained and supported.
You don't realize how much support you gave to Polish people by making a video of length 21:37 :) Thanks
I am short with scoliosis and I'm gender queer , this is why I mostly shop at m&s if I need undawear or charity shops
Really appreciated this video. As an afab enby who really loves their body it is so hard to find fun clothes that fit. I had no idea how ridiculous sizing charts were beyond general confusion. So thanks!
Love your history videos!!
My great grandma was an excellent seamstress , she worked in the theatre
I absolutely love Bravissimo. They have shops in Birmingham and Solihull and specifically aim to fit women with larger busts with bras and swimwear that actually fit properly.
Hi Jessica. Best way to buy clothes is to try on before you buy. As it rediculous clothes sizing not only varies from shop to shop but different makes in the same shop also varies.
I’ve been buying from Bravissimo for many years because they’ll properly measure your bust size and they cater for slimmer waist sizes with bigger busts (which is my rough shape) and their clothes and bras alike have always fit like a dream, unfortunately it’s expensive and I need a refit soon. I’ve also had a baby since my last measure, so I’m all over the place 😂
13:25 Um... Not really, I'm afraid? If you've ever seen the underpinnings worn by non-waif-like flapper-era ladies, it's pretty clear the corset simply changed shape (to an equally unnatural flat, boxy shape through the 1920s) and then just gradually morphed into the elasticated & steel-sprung girdles which persisted into the 1950s... And then of course was reinvented as the fully elasticated shapewear which still persists today!
Highly recommend the amusing & informative vids on underpinnings posted by costubers such as Bernadette Banner, Nicole Rudolph and Abby Cox for a closer look at this topic! Nicole does a deeper dive on sizing history for women, and Abby's "Boobs" and "Butts" episodes are both hilarious and really great for keeping today's temporary body-shape trends in perspective...
Really enjoy your humour here though, Jessica - as always! 🥰
I love learning the history of this!
I am plus size and apple shaped. My favourite brand is Taking Shape. They have a wide range of sizes but cater to bigger bodies. I really enjoy their silhouettes and fabrics.
I've been unwell recently and lost 10ish kgs and my clothes from Taking Shape still look good and fit well. I really recommend Taking Shape 😊❤❤
So happy to know my not caring what size I wear is for a good reason.
I gave up on bras when I saw a couple of women not wearing them and figured out that was okay.😊
Love this. Thank you for the information!
This was quite insightful, Thank You!
This is really eye opening, I have the opposite issue with my skin, it feels extremely painful even with the slightest scratch, and it rips/tears easily so will definitely be looking into those bras to see if they help. Especially if they cheaper than the custom ones I get right now.
Jessica is gorgeous as always
The icing on the cake is that sizes are also inconsistent within the *SAME* brand.
I got my swimsuit, because my sister has a friend with a pool, from a company called Torrid. As a larger lady, I need larger sizes. However, I have not worn a bra since my mother's 80th birthday (2006.) I really haven't needed to since my breast reduction in 1998 when I went from a DD to a B. I have a hard time wearing a bra since I have inflammation in my breastbone, costochondritis, that finally included all of it since before the reduction surgery. I got it after I dislocated my breastbone in 1978. I can not abide any kind of elastic around my ribs. I also react poorly to artificial fabrics, mostly polyester, not so much acrylic ... and don't even start with wool, so glad I live in Texas... I really wish jeans were made for large women without the polyester and spandex.
Oh, speaking of hourglass shapes, when I wanted jeans back in my youth - 1970s - the women's jeans were, if they fit my hips, I couldn't close the waistband and if they fit my waist they looked like clown jeans around my hips. I would buy men's jeans and take in an inch at the waist.
I’ve been rather flat chested (an A cup) my entire life, but I’m almost 5 months pregnant and all of a sudden I’m a 36 C…and they won’t quit growing…I feel like a lost, scared little girl!
Highly recommend checking out the a bra that fits calculator, and the subreddit of the same name.
Just bought a second-hand satin dressing gown from a fav online store. I'm around an Aus size 12, and the gown is a size 20 and fits perfectly. If I just went off numbers, nothing would ever fit!
Great video! Thanks.
Brilliant video, Jessica 😍 friendly reminder to all that not everyone who needs a bra is a woman, and not all women need bras!❤
Omg i have made the dress from that 6015 butterick pattern you featured 😁the one with the button front and biased edges
I'm an hour glass shape and always have to resize my clothing. Can't wait to try those bras.
Nicole Rudolph has a great video here or UA-cam going into sizing..highly recommend
You should do a video on clothing specifically for disabled people. Much love!
These Bras look so comfy!🥰🤗😅💕
I wear a post-operative surgical bra if I wear anything because I have ankylosing spondylitis; they're really comfortable for anyone else who can't wear a bra. If I try to wear any type of bra or sports bra with *any* pressure on my spine, ribs, scapula, or shoulders causes immense pain since I have joint fusion and inflammation. It is fun to watch videos like these, though, since undergarments are so pretty. :)
Fellow EDSer here 🦓! Like you, bras have been seriously painful most of my adult life, especially as a larger woman. This time last year I ordered my first bras from Molke in Perth, Scotland and, despite them being at least 4 times the cost of my supermarket nasties, my collection has grown to 5 original style bras, 10 flexi style bras, one racerback bralette and 12 high waisted briefs. They are in funky colours and patterns, sustainably produced and the company pays their staff the living wage, not minimum wage, to ensure they have a fair salary for their work. But the best bit? Not an underwire in sight! Even for someone like me who needs a 42K at least! Highly recommend this company to anyone 🥰 but will be checking out the company who sponsor this video too as a girl can never have too many choices for comfortable bras! Xxx
Watching this while hand-sewing some of the fiddlier bits on my first attempt at a tailored jacket!
Very boringly, I'm going to recommend M&S as a size-aware brand, one of the very few who accommodate small boobage on a broad back. But even they suddenly ramp up the engineering when they go from a 38A (which I usually wear), to a 40A (technically I measure at something like a 42AA! yeah right). And yes, their different sub-brands do fit differently. Rosie (the most expensive) fits better than the cheaper ones.
Is there a site for that? I got a lot of results for M&S apparel and it seems it's not as easy to find as I'd hoped 😅
The change and what is considered standard for size waste in US clothing really explains how I'm able to buy vintage clothing when it comes to skirts in my size. I'm considered plus sized but I have always been able to wear the size that I am currently in a vintage skirt. I think this is because my waste measurements correspond more with the historical measurements it's just my hips that mean I have to wear the bigger sizes. Also unless it's a sweater I've never been able to buy a vintage top.
So glad you, BROUGHT THIS UP. 😂😂😂😂 I thought it was just me
I'm going to check them out, I'm a UK 40H and also have scoliosis so good bras are hard to find.
I found the bra brand Paramore at a Target in the USA recently, and they had a size _32H_ bra IN THE STORE, so for anyone else who can't afford to go to a fancy bra store, and who doesn't trust bra sizing enough to shop online, that's definitely a brand to look for. I bought one that does have underwire, but it's still very comfortable for everything besides lying down
Would you do a video on the research process that lead to those 8 body types? I had no idea there was research behind them and I would love to learn more!!
I stopped buying pants (as in trousers) around 2009 because I was exhausted of trying to find a pair that fit. I have a very narrow waist and a very, um, large backside, and short legs. I have never owned a pair of pants that fit me. My pant size was, at the same time, 38, 40, 42, M, L, XL, 12, 14, and probably a dozen others. So I gave up. Have been wearing dresses and skirts almost exclusively. I also stopped wearing bras completely about 10 years ago. Same problem, could not figure out my size and was in constant pain due to ill fitted undergarments. All of this to say: "women's" clothing sizes are like the wild west. It's ridiculous.
I am with you on the skirts and dresses over pants, but I have yet to find a solution for the bra thing. No bra hurts my back and neck, a supportive bra with a wire hurts the ribs near the wire who just won't stay put that way and a sports bra that is supportive enough to avoid the issue with my back and neck, hurts where my ribs attach to my sternum. And all that is of course, if the even have my size at all...
@@christafranken9170 I wear bralettes, they're not the greatest solution but everything else just hurts too bad. Edit: wire bras are a torture device. Those things are possibly the most painful undergarment ever invented.
this is why I wear stretchy jeans and loved the jeggings trend, because I'd never had pants that actually would fit me before. They're still too big around my waist, but not as badly as in the past
Oof the sizing issue is REAL. I'm launching a zero-waste fashion company in Canada and trying to figure out my sizing system is a nightmare. Do I use a SML system? In that case, how do I determine my M size? Do I create my own sizing chart and label it ABC? Do I just give the measurements for the waist? And if so, do I do it in Metric or Imperial? How much difference should there be between sizes??
And this is for a skirt design where the only real measurement of note is the waist, AND it has ties so it's a flexible size. Now imagine this but for pants or a shirt where you have to factor in hips, thighs, bust or ribcage sizing and aaaaargh.
My god I adore your content.
I love how you couldn't just use a tape measure and place an order and leave it there. With or without a sponsorship feature for any unrelated video, tied with a segue of "well we all wear underwear, how about these?"
This was absolutely fascinating! And beautifully articulated and presented as always 💖
Not undergarments but I remember as a teen pulling all of my jeans out and I ranged from 0 to 12 depending on the brand. One brand I was even two different sizes and they both fit the same! Definitely peeking at Xixili, though, I'm tired of choosing comfortable OR cute.
Can you please collab with Bernadette Banner? Between the vintage styles and scoliosis, you'll have so much to talk about! 😂
Yeah ...nope Never ever have I understood women's measurements for clothing. Much easier to just take a measure with and measure the size and go from there. Unless trouser shopping. But yay for you ! You always look smashing 😉
The SizeUK current stats are behind a pay wall, available for companies to purchase. I'd really like it to be publically available! Also to see it in the news!!
Thank you!
I'm sorry but who's cutting clothes to fit hourglass figures these days? it's the very opposite, they're all cut boxy to fit rectangular (preferably) thin pencil shaped women. maybe it's just easier, also it's clear that there aren't as many women with hourglass figures nowadays. as someone whose waist is 24.5 inches with my hips/chest 15 inches bigger, I've never found a single clothing item which fits everywhere. my size is designated as anything from XS to L, it's ridiculous.
I have that exact same problem, and it's so frustrating
My recommendation is for bravissimo because you can order bras for free to try at home and if they don't fit, you can send them back with a request for a replacement in your desired size- and you can do this MULTIPLE times! All for FREE! No added shipping costs AT ALL! So if you need to try a few sizes to get the right fit like I do (and because every bra fits differently) you can 👍👍👍
oh boy haha this makes me wish i had my own tailer/fashion designer because yes especially trying to find pants is difficult because the size ranges sooo much!!! (USA)
im definitely going to check out that sponsor because who knew bras could be comfortable and well fitting! honestly 😂