The world's most infamous woodworking tool can be REPLACED!
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- Опубліковано 2 тра 2024
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I have seen a number of different jigs for using a router as an alternate way of doing that.. Some simple like yours, and other were quite complex.
Festool originally patented the Domino in 2004. In the USA patents last for 20 years. Of course, all sorts of shenanigans get played with updates etc, but the basic concept is due for protection expiry.
Just comes down to what's most important ... time or money. If time IS money like in a production environment, springing for a Domino is a no brainer. But if you're simply a hobbyist making one-off pieces of furniture for your home, a plunge router works just as effectively. That's a great tip with the splined fence, Stumpy!
Eggzactly
Well stated. The home hobbyist that makes 1 to 3 pieces a year can't afford $1200 for a tool that does one thing quick and easy when there are ways to take advantage of an existing tool to get the same results.
All tools are cheap if they make you a profit. I think there are many non professionals looking at tools made for pros/profit making, so the tools seem expensive.
Do businesses use this tool for mass production?
They probably have specialized tools.
@@gund89123 You're forgetting custom woodworkers who build for profit, but not mass production.
The cut line for fence was brilliant, never thought of doing that.
If you are a woodworking professional your tools are your livelihood. For a home tinkerer like myself this is an excellent way to achieve the same. Thanks
Classic Stumpy Nubs - practical, concise and unpretentious. One of the best woodworking channels. Thank you.
I recall you made a similar video for a jig like this some time ago ...... I cannot begin to tell you how useful that was, I now make all my 'mortise & tenon' joints with a copy of that jig, slightly modified to suit my own needs, but a fantastically useful jig. BIG thanx!!
Do you remember the specific video that featured this jig? I'd love to see it!
Oh wait, did I totally not realize that the jig is essentially the same as the on in this video? 😆 I'm still interested in what the other video was though haha
@@redacted547it is called Make loose-tenon joinery without a Festool Domino
@@redacted547check out the videos of peter millard’s 10 minute workshop. It’s somewhere in there
Nice quick jig. 3x3 Custom has also made an excellent jig that is a little more work but a lot more customizable. I highly recommend it.
As usual, well done James. Some nice improvements to your jig too. As others have added, there are lots of alternatives to Fesstool Dominoes. I've made lots of things, from huge doors to small furniture with mortises cut with chisels after drilling out waste. Later I got a small hollow chisel mortiser. Worked well, but not fast. When making dozens of windows, I found a used chain mortiser that greatly sped up the operation. Great for making big mortises on lots of things. But I bought a Domino jointer 15 years ago, and later an XL. They WERE expensive. But the time they save me makes them very worth while. I could have gotten by without the XL I suppose, but it has been used on probably 1000 or more mortises, and I'm happy with it.
There are always ways to do things differently. The Domino is just an amazingly accurate machine that takes a lot of time out of set up. Not necessary, but for someone that does work with wood every day, it is a darn useful tool. I'm glad to pay for the accuracy and the ease of adjusting to each project need. It is not just the ability to "rout" deep mortises. It is the ability to quickly register from an edge to you slot, to change that register in increments, to go back again, to widen slots, to quickly change depths, etc. I certainly don't own a lot of Fesstool products, because while they are usually a cut above, the comparable drill, sander, etc, but I can get by with something considerably cheaper, but I do admire their commitment to quality. For the Domino, it is not just a better made product, it is truly unique.
I have to agree with you. I work at in a small factory (less than 20 employees, including 6 builders) making custom furniture, mostly tables, and our domino machine is well worth it because of the precision (for when it’s needed, sometimes it truly is) and its ease of adjustability (like mortises in a miter). I would probably never buy one if it was just me, but for our size shop it’s awesome.
Excellent comment. I think FinishCarpentry has moved to Festool. He found his Domino pretty much paid for itself with just one door for his own house, let alone this professional work. His doors would have cost a couple of thousand $s with the timber and the machining
I very much appreciate your meticulous, clear instructions. I always find I have a better understanding of “how and why” after I have watched your videos. You have a way of simplifying and incrementing your explanations that helps me very much. Thank you.
Thank you for showing us this again, James!
I have no problem with Festool other than price. If you have a high volume cabinet shop, go for it. The cost makes any Festool product unnecessary in a hobbyist shop. Besides, Norm showed us how to do loose-tennon joinery with a router 30 years ago. If it's good enough for Norm. . .
Waiting Makita Domino, when Festool patents end in this year. 🙂
Festool has been in business 100 years, mainly with its patens, new is guide railless plunge saw, tech from a router, so thats maybe coming soon.
Tech may work on router just fine, it's harder to control circular saw blade.
I completely disagree with this. I'm very much a hobby guy and the Festool I own allows me to create better things. The precision of the tools help me be a better woodworker. I have non Festool machines too, and it's so easy to feel the difference in how precise I am. For a professional, this is irrelevant. They can do good work no matter the quality of the tool. But for me it makes a huge difference.
Also, the dust collection is so good that my shop is much cleaner and the air quality is better. For example, I just replaced my old miter saw with a Festool and the dust difference is amazing. I don't have professional air filtration systems, so my tools will have to do a lot of this. Festool helps.
I don't have a domino, though, and I won't ever buy one. This is a tool that - as I see it - is all about speed of joinery. Hobbyists don't need speed as much as professionals - although we will of course take it when we can.
@@bothorsen4292I completely agree with everything you’ve said here, except I do plan on buying a domino if they ever make a cordless version.
@@bothorsen4292 I also agree with your take. I bought a RO150 Festool sander to sand all the maple trim in my house while living there. It was faster, used less sandpaper, and was virtually dust free. I needed a smaller random sander, but couldn't justify the cost of a Festool. I bought the Dewalt. The dust control was terrible, it was slow and noisy. I took it back and got a Festool sander. That one project where I didn't have to dust out the whole house made it worth the cost. I since have bought a Domino for doing my cabinets and built ins. I am a home hobbyist that works long hours at my job. Having the Domino allows my to economize my off time to get things done. Additionally, once you have the tool, you use it for ridiculous projects because you can.
If it’s about price then we’d all buy our furniture at a discount store not make it!
Another great video James. Thank you for the lesson 👍
Watching this makes my Domino’s worth the price tag even more
Same thing I was thinking
Thanks Stumpy! One of those “It’s so simple” moments that you don’t know why you hadn’t thought of it before.
Great tip!
Excellent presentation and jig!
Wow! I have so much to learn! This really helps and inspires me! Thanks!
When I first saw Festool products and saw the prices, I was appalled. Then I saw the design effort and engineering quality that goes into them. It's all about productivity with accuracy. If I was earning my living from woodworking instead of being a hobbyist, I'd want Festool.
And the genuine warranty... that's extremely important if your income depends on completing a job and you lost or damaged your gear
What a great idea! Thanks for sharing this.
Good idea and explanation. Thanks
This is a great technique, and the bomb-proof tip on getting the fence exactly parallel alone makes the video worth watching. I remember the channel had a very similar video a few years back, with the main difference being that James lacked the Spock-in-a-parallel-universe goatee. Good to present this material for the benefit of those newer to the channel and as a refresher for long time viewers. Thumbs up for Tay Tools-they're great to deal with and have lots of useful vids on their own UA-cam channel.
I used slot tenons to fabricate new window sash for a historic building. Around 30 windows. Worked great! Excellent video on the jig! Well done
!
You are a UA-cam gem, I have truly enjoyed your videos. Explained with intelligens and clearity. Sorry about my poor english.
This video really shows why the domino is valuable to people who make money through their woodworking. If you make a couple hundred of these joints eventually the time saved using the domino will have made it totally worth the money. but that doesn't apply to hobbyists
Correct. Horses for courses. We sometimes bought (designed/fabbed) some very expensive specialized custom tooling to use in aerospace manufacturing to do very precise, repeatable operations as efficiently as possible. Some of these operations could have been done cheaper with cheaper tooling, but time is money, and over a lot of time, that's a lot of burnt money.
Also, some hobbyists have a lot of money, but not much time for their hobby, in which case it can be a smart move to spend a lot of money to save a little time.
It depends. I recently got my first Domino at 35 years old and see no reason why I wouldn't use the tool once I'm 65: I doubt that anything better, faster or easier to use will come along anytime soon to replace it and with top-shelf manufacturers like Festool, it's very likely that I will be able to get spare parts 10, 20 or even 30 years down the line as production and logistics for after sales service is already factored into the initial price - something people often disregard when shopping for tools but then wonder why they cant get a replacement parts for their cheap Made in China crap.
If you look at it that way, a tool like the Domino that cost me 900€ now, comes down to ~30€ per year over the long run. Considering the time and effort saved compared to something like the method shown in the video, the investment is - in my opinion - well worth it, even for hobbyists like me...
Time is important even for hobbyist like plus. Not just that, with jigs, router etc, it is not just the time, but to get accurate results is still difficult. With Domino, everything is so easy.
Another great video, James! Thanks again!
James, you hit it out of the park again! I will be doing this in the near future. Thank you again for your no fuss, no mess, no hype style-much appreciated!
Great idea and help to visualize the process. Thanks.
Such a great alternative. Thank you
Simple, logical, and useful.
Thanks for another good one!
PS: Thanks to you I now only use 3M cubitron ...... fantastic product ..... plan to make a chisel sharpening jig as per another one of your ideas for using cubitron!!
Great tips As always James Thanks for sharing
I'm a 'home tinkerer' that's been renovating and building cabinets, shelves, tables for about 20 years. I have a crap load of Festool machines, many of which I purchased 2nd hand, including the DF500 Domino. Never had any regrets or issues. That stuff doesn't seem to want to wear out. Must say though, once you've used a Domino, there's no going back!
Great information! Thank you!
Thank you sir for another great perspective and another approach. Thank you so much for all you do. I’m a novice wood worker but I’ve learned so much watching your videos.
What a great idea! Thanks.
You always deliver good information-thank you. That is why watch your channel and take your lessons/information as solid advice to consider.
Jigs are Jigs, Tools are Tools. I always make throw away jigs, It's just cheaper. Whether I am making one or two pieces or twenty units. Once I find out the units sells... That jig gets stored with all the templates, plans, pictures and any video for the next selling season. Great video! Shoot, I even make jigs to make high profit planters. Make it once and production run begins. Keeps everything uniform and body parts away from high speed metal cutting devices sheathed in tungsten carbide! With a good jig instead of 10-20 a day hundreds can be made. More profit!
Great job. Thank you 😊
This channel never disappoints
Thanks for the money saving tip.
What a great idea for the wood workers that are not in production or regularly requiring loose tenons. For that "once in a while hobbiest", this is a great option. Thank you for sharing!
As always, good info thank you.
Here's a couple of enhancements.
First, make a set of jigs for common dimensions when positioning the fence. One for 3/4 in stock, another for 1 1/2" stock, etc. You could also take angles into consideration, and make jigs where the fence is positioned for 1 1/2 stock cut on a 45 degree angle.
Second, make the gap the largest you think you will ever use. In the jig, add a mechanism that allows you to vary the length of the gap. You could simply use spacer blocks, or get fancier and use a bolt that can be adjusted. For the bolt idea, drill through holes through the two narrow strips before assembly. Thread one of the holes and insert a long bolt. When assembling the jig, make sure the bolt is facing inward. Then, use a long screwdriver through the other end to adjust the length of the mortise.
Ok
So much a router can do and you showing how to make a jig to go and do mortise joints is an added bonus.
Genius. Thank you!
Top notch like always! Thank you sir!
Such a simple jig enables one of the most useful joints. IMO this is the joint that all beginning woodworkers should know and use. I like the version that has adjustable slot width, which is not much more complicated.
Thanks for this! It's not so much the Festool machine that turns people off, it is the fact that this is realistically a tool only for professionals who make their living in woodworking. If you are not a professional, it is highly unlikely you are going to spend that much on a rarely used tool, and if you are a professional, you don't need some dimbulb UA-camr droning on about how great it is. Thus nobody is interested. What is needed is more videos like this which demonstrate how you can get the same results as a pro without the expense.
It depends on how much you value your time. The Domino is an amazing machine that does one this VERY well and VERY fast. I live life with as few regrets as possible. I don’t regret my Domino purchase.
Then again in the market we have similar tools at a 10th of the price...wel made.
All of the domino “killers” require a whole bunch of clamping(sometimes on yet another jig) lining up fiducial marks, drilling or routing then doing it again for EACH joint. The domino doesn’t just make holes, it puts them in the right place. I am a hobbyist but I use it on almost every project. Why would you not buy a tool you will use for 20 plus years
Good video, it works. I might use it for a special unavailable size domino, however time is of the essence for me, so the domino is my preference. Of course I own one, but if you are only going to do a few, and don't want to pay fesstool a lot of money, your suggestion is great!
Thanks Professor Nubs for another great method that works great and saves money.
Great information, as always.
Thanks James. I really like your idea! And so much easier than using a chisel. You are truly a master! 😊😊😊😊❤❤❤❤
Well done James, us domino folk do this also, we also would use a router (probably green) with good chip removal. I like your presentation. Well done! And yes, it’s all about the woodworker, the tools don’t define us, they only help facilitate the process!
Just wanted to say thank you. I didn't look back that far. Maybe other folks who missed it will now check it out .
I couldn't agree more about changing the channel when a UA-cam'r whips out their flashy domino tool. Great tip for lining up the fence. I was expecting parallel for the fence to be the failure of this option, but I learned something instead and am impressed. Cheers.
Great job 👏🏻
Great jig! With the new stubble, you're channeling your best Andy Dufresne look from Shawshank Redemption.😊
He's gonna have to change the channel name to "Stubbly Nubs" ;p
I cut several of these on a past project, but just used a router guide. Just add boards so it's balanced. Marc Spagnola has a video on it. This also looks like a great jig.
Nice work !
Great job 👍
Brilliant! I'll bet Festool will love you!
Great vid and tips James. If you own a woodworking CNC, it is super easy to whip up quick, custom jigs like this, any length and width 🙂
One could skip making the jig and just cut mortises on the CNC.😂
Great! The video is amazing and has caught my interest. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Fabulous‼️
My favorite part is, he is using one of the more affordable routers to do a job just as clean as one of the most expensive tools does. Well played sir!
Porter Cable routers are the gold standard, some of the best ever made
It's the router bit, not so much the router.
Often the price you pay for a tool that's made for a very specialized task is the simple conveneince of doing that singular task slightly faster and more efficiently. In a private workshop it rarely matters how long it actually takes you to do things, but on a production floor where inventory needs to move fast and at volumes, saving a few minutes on simple tasks each day saves thousands of dollars in the long run.
@@SethAbercromby In a full production shop machines will be dedicated to single parts, as well as cnc.
I don't understand. The Porter Cable router in the video is one of the best, most sought-after routers ever. I still recall being shocked that our "friends" at Stanley B & D decided to stop making the world's most popular router.
Wow, Thanks great presentation and technique.
Tom Byrne
Yeah Still love my PC890 router. FYI, you can make a long one jig with several opening for doing carouses.
So do I got two from oxford England 🏴
Your short review on the new 3M Sanding Disk. This is an incredible leap forward in sandpaper technology. My good pal and neighbor was a sales rep for 3M. He was KING on body shop abrasives. I gave him two disks to try out. Dave could not believe it. Dave is going to call his old contacts at 3M. I hope I can gain some insight for you on what & how. Soon hopefully. TS Portland
What a great idea.
Excellent idea! I have seen a router mortising machine before but was as expensive as the Festool domino. I like this idea. One thing to note, is the specs of the jig may have to be changed or remade for different width stock. After a couple of projects, I bet you won't need to make a new jig anymore. Thanks.
thanks
Ok now THIS just might be my favorite jig vid
This workaround is nice, but anyone doing a volume of work will want the expensive, accurate and devoted tool as it requires less steps and is possibly less prone to error.
Thank you.
James one more nice video...before I had Mortise Pal (not avaible anymore)...I did like your mortise jig I add a threaded rod and a T nut at edge and make the slot longer and the threaded rod limited how long I can go...congratulations from Brazil
Great! and thank you....rr Normandy, France
As someone who's used methods like this for years and some of the stuff the wood whisper showed in a video as well. There's places where the domino certainly still outshines. Mainly on mitres and small pieces.
And obviously time wise is way faster.
But with that price I can't justify having both domino. So I own the smaller one since I use it more. If on the off chance I need something bigger I use the router jig options.
It was hard to justify buying when I did buy it years ago. But I never regretted it.
I was happy to sell my track saw. Not that I don't love them. But you pay a premium for the festool and the only difference using my Bosch one instead is I don't have the festool cord and it was nearly half the price when I got it on sale. And since the only other festool items I have is a Sander and the domino, I don't care for the cord. It's not that big of a deal to me. Plus I always considered cutting one cord to put a twist lock on it. Since I did that with every other tool I have. They all have a twist lock camlok connector on them that I can go from tool to tool.
For now I’ll continue to use my dedicated morticer and tenon fence jig.
James. I agree that your jig works very well for larger projects like the door and even smaller ones using 3/4" material, however it would not work so well on narrow mitered stock such as for picture frames, where small dominos/loose tenons are useful. Of course, the loose tenon joint could be replaced with splined joints for the frames, however splines might not be acceptable for the appearance of the finished frame. Woodworking is always better when one has alternatives to consider in design and construction, thank you for sharing.
As a domino owner I still use this method to cut large mortises. I made a large door a year or so ago and wanted beefy mortise and tenons so the router method was the way.
can't relate to this thing either. But I do understand that if you're a company who glues up a lot of tables or something, you'd want one.
Lovely vid
I've always used dowels. They are quick and easy to use and all I need is a drill and an inexpensive dowel jig.
I've never needed to use mortice and tenon.
Should I reconsider?
I don't see why you would change what works for you. Best domino replacement in the dowel.
@@meperson Thank you.
One thing that nobody points out is the bushing for the router. I believe most newbies will have no problem getting the bit or making the jig but get lost on the bushings. Like how to get them. Do they work with 'my' router. Do I need to buy a different router. Can I get a bushing for my trim router. And so on.
Maybe do a video on router bushings and accessories?
I have: ua-cam.com/video/ujH33UYOHI0/v-deo.html
Well that certainly makes loose tenon joinery less expensive than the Festool route. Although I wouldn't say it is exactly free. You need a router and router bit. Although I expect most shops do have those. I really like your method of aligning the jig's fence. And apparently the only critical measurement is the thickness of the tenon. You indicate that length and width can vary without compromising the joint. Thank you for sharing. Have a great day and stay safe.🙂🙂
I said "if you own a router" it's essentially free. I think anyone who is at a level where they are using mortise and tenon joinery has at least a router and a straight bit in their shop.
@@StumpyNubs I would agree that, while a router isn't usually among the first few starter tools a novice woodworker buys, they generally buy a router looooong before a Festool Domino.
Perfect example of why the domino is a thing.
That's a whole lot of work compared to just picking it up and going to town. For a DIYer who does this twice a year, this method sure is adequate but there are two distinct groups of people for whom the domino was made:
1. Pros that do this three times a week where the time savings will amortize the domino inside a year and a half
2. People like me, who have a high motivational threshold to begin a project because they think way too much about all the work involved. And have the spare change to buy it.
The latter of point two is where I diverge from that group :D.
Stumpy, you’re the man 💪
The router method is always a good option especially when you need a larger mortice than your domino can cut. You can't beat the domino for speed and accuracy in a production workshop where time is money. Unfortunately the domino appears overpriced to most amateur woodworkers however in my experience as a professional woodworker the domino has paid for itself very quickly in time saved. I believe that taking the time to learn how to cut joints by hand gives you a much better understanding of the process before moving on to using power tools and machinery.
I love mine.
I believe that the 3m cubitron paper is good stuff. I have been using the regular sheets of 3m sand paper and it cuts quick! I really wanna try the cubitron stuff on my orbital sander.
ok, I tried the cubitron and I must admit it lasts longer and doesn't gum up. I think it's bewitched, it's so good.
Get a pantorouter! It’s all you need for m&t at any angle, dovetails, box joints, dowel joinery. Perfect results every time!
If you don't want to spend $1500 on a Domino you probably aren't spending $2300 on a pantorouter.
A domino is only expensive if you don't do enough mortise and tenon joinery. If you use it a lot in your woodworking, it is a great tool. If you are doing one decent sized cabinet or built ins project, it can pay for itself in time and accuracy. If you have one, you tend to find all sorts of ways to incorporate the tool into your projects to make things a little easier.
Oddly, I thought he was going to show a Lamello as the Domino killer... a tool that is just as expensive. 😅 i don't know why I expected that.
I got around using a domino for along time and that’s fine of course. I used one once at a friends shop and I was hooked. The domino makes joining pieces so fast and exact that it’s a real game changer in saving TIME. If you got time to kill there’s no point in the domino but if you are limited on time it’s impossible to beat.
Now even happier that I have a Domino. Over the past 15 years it has saved me countless hours of set up and fiddling about. I use for all kinds of angled, offset and traditional tenon work. Save yourself a lot of headache and just use the Domino. Priceless.
And you can almost always find the used/barely used for a way cheaper price and less time 😂😂😂
It is most definitely not 'priceless'!
Right tool for the right job, right? I use both methods depending on the project, as I'm sure you do, as well. I like the simplicity of the jig you make.
Festool is a bit like Snap-On, they make "some" very good tools at a very premium price. They also make a bunch of slightly better than middle of the road tools at a very premium price. Even marginal research can illuminate those tools that will do the same task at the same rate of production at far lower dollar outlay. It's worth the hunt. The branded marketing is there for a reason, to get you to buy into the sales pitch. Once in a while the sales pitch is accurate.
Not even close to comparable imho. Festool pays good wages and benefits, and also doesn’t use cheap foreign labor. Snap on rebrands all kinds of china made tools and quadruples the price. Finding snap on rebrands from the OEM is a lot of fun. Snap On is a marketing and finance company that uses hand tools as its widget, and uses new colors to sell them like hand bags. No real innovation, just new colored handles. Festool is a tool company(100 years next year) Spending my hard earned money on Snap On didn’t make me want to buy more, Festool on the other hand did as no brand manages dust collection so well, and that is priceless in my trade. Sorry for the rant, Happy Friday! 😂 #strapontools #bendoverthetruckishere
A Festool tool truck driving around like Snap-On would be awesome! Just take my money.
@@anthonyreddin891 Like an ice cream truck for upper middle class early-retired guys.
My grandfather always said the most important woodworking tools is between your ears. When that one is working almost any tool will do. When it ain't working, no tool can help.
It would be nice if you showed and demonstrated the jig BEFORE moving forward into building it - that aids understanding and comprehension
Great idea James. My rule: if you’re doing a process more than twice - make a jig for it. I like your method much better than Domino wanna be tools which are often hundreds of dollars, and make joints that are half as strong as a loose tenon. Thanks for keeping our imaginations alive.
Best replacement for domino is not some half baked domino like contraption. Get a great doweling jig like Dowelmax or Jesem if you cannot justify Festool domino.
I have a Dowelmax. Great tool! But rectangular loose tenons are much easier to align than the typical dowel.