Tend to mount AMS in campaigns on anything 85 tons or more. As Double Heat Sinks and other savings measures come available once you’re armored up, that AMS can help blunt the teeth of some nasty things. Longbows and LRM carriers come to mind
I use a home rule where the ams can intercept missiles being fired at other units within a three hex radius. I find it makes designs like the mist lynx A much better as support platforms.
@MechanicalFrog I'm unfamiliar with 32nd-century Mech design but it's struck me before that an overly heat-sinked medium with a laser AMS would be an interesting basis for a future trooper/bodyguard design
Ah the old AMS/LAMS the first tonns I always freed up in MW3 and MW4. It was only the great animation and sound of MWO that convinced me to leave this great toy on my mechs. Still never used one in tabletop but that time will come.
While definitely not similar to table top rules, I do love MWO's Kit Fox with 3 laser AMS and a TAG. It becomes highly situational but its low profile and high maneuverability allows you to effectively hard counter multiple enemy LRM/MRM/ATM mechs at the same time while you focus on evasion and pinpointing enemy targets. It even pays not to run ECM because you want your opponents to generate heat and discard ammo in your direction. For a light 30 Ton package, it takes an exceptionally skilled Pilot to swing the course of a battle as much as this little support unit.
The AMS in MechWarrior living legends is used for killing BA and nearby ASF and not missiles but the LAMS is for missiles and enough in one spot can even detonate a longtom round.
Not exactly a Battletech answer but I live by a certain rule in MWO. Every mech I build heavier than a light Must have an AMS and a BAP. You will always get some value out of both.
I'm of the opinion AMS needs a buff, and there are plenty of house rules that I've seen to do that. Enhanced AMS out of the BattleMech Manual (I think) negates a missile attack that is reduced below a roll of 2 (all missiles destroyed), or the house rule mentioned below of engaging missile attacks on all units inside a radius, not just defending yourself. On the topic of buffs, I like the idea of burst fire machine guns, another optional rule mentioned in BMM: d6 damage and ammo expended, so 200 ammo in a ton isn't an utterly impractical amount to carry. A house rule of "solid hit" with autocannons: a hit roll 2 above the target number (need 7, roll 9+) deals +2 damage (so AC-2+2, AC-5+2, etc). Makes an AC-10 a head capper in very specific circumstances, doesn't do that much for AC-20s, but makes AC-2s hit twice as hard, and a lot less a waste of tonnage in my opinion.
Personally I ripped off HBS Battletech to rebalance autocannons. Tl;dr: All Mechs get one more structure point in the head so 12 damage is not a headcapper. AC-2s go to 5 damage and 25 rounds/ton, AC-5s to 8 damage and 15 rounds/ton and AC-10s to 12 damage and 10 rounds/ton.
Love the warhammer 7m variant that swaps out one machine gun for an ams. Especially since u really only need one machine gun to deal with infantry (at least in my experience)
Hello Frog. Personally, I love AMS systems. Even though the Laser AMS can be a real heat burden on a Mech, one cannot discount effective missile protection. In the appropriate Eras, I try to fit at least 1 AMS and a ton of ammo for it onto as many Mechs as I can. Especially those that do not have such protection. In some cases, like the Archer Mech, I prefer to have Medium Lasers and LRMs, and leave the AMS system to a 'partner' Mech. Usually one with long ranged beams or Gauss weaponry to support the Archer(s). I frustrated one opponent greatly when I fielded ALL my Mechs having AMS systems. His LRM-heavy force pretty much did diddly against my forces, while I picked him apart with my own missiles, and long ranged AC and Gauss hits. He didn't quit in a rage, like some players will when facing an opponent that so well countered his own forces... but he did say that so many AMS's was 'unfair'. I jokingly asked where in the Geneva Conventions that it states that combat has to be 'even' or 'fair' to the opposition. And then I agreed that perhaps I had gone 'over board' on the AMS systems... perhaps. If he had fielded an 'all energy' force, I would have wasted all that tonnage devoted to anti-missile systems. And then... the shoe would have been on the other foot. AMS is NOT a 'win button' item. There is NO such thing. But, it can keep your Mechs and vehicles in combat longer, by intercepting some of that LRM and SRM 'rain'. And for me, for the most part, that is valuable enough to invest in... most of the time.
I used to love and am still fond of AMS , but ive recently come around to you may as well run an ECM system for blocking the ubiquitous Artemis IV in later eras plus the ECM does more
AMS is decent protection if your armor is already maxxed and you have ECM, and especially if you have an armor type like reflective to mitigate non-missile hits My preferred houserule is that it shoots down the first four missiles that would hit you, or five for a Laser AMS (thunderbolts counting as 1 missile per 5 damage)
The old AMS rules were similar to this. In the original rules and even Battletech Master Rules (Revised) 1707, the system would shoot down 1d6 (2d6 for clan) missiles from the incoming salvo AFTER the number of hits was rolled. It had the effect in practice of being VERY effective vs SRMs and smaller systems, but not so much vs larger ones. Unfortunately in those rules it also used as much ammo up as the missiles shot down, meaning they were used up VERY fast and often house ruled to have 2-4 times the amount of ammo per ton.
You don't get to choose which missiles the AMS intercepts, it automatically intercepts the first one. In fact, AMS is an autonomous system that works even if you are unconscious. At least thats how i have always seen it played.
Total Warfare 130: ”If, in a single Weapon Attack Phase, more than one missile weapon successfully strikes the target in the attack direction covered by the firing arc where an AMS is mounted, the defending player can choose which (if any) missile weapon to inflict the modifier against.” But yes, Mech Manual states that the AMS can be used even if the MechWarrior is unconscious. Kind of odd that TW doesn’t mention that (or perhaps I’m just blind).
@@MechanicalFrog Yeah, i know. The problem is that page 130 says "The player cannot choose for the AMS to not engage as the system is always active if it has ammo"....which kinda contradicts page 129 where its says players can choose to engage the system?
@@JH-ph4qb which printing do you have? I can’t for the life of me find that line in the latest one. I can’t discount the possibility that I’m just being dumb, though.
A custom novacat B where you drop one of the 6 lrm 15s completely and downgrade another to lrm10. All saved weight up the armor and add and ams and ammo. You now have a similar crazy support mech but you can now negate a decent amount of enemy lrm return fire toward you
The only game I've actually played so far is mw5, so I don't know much about the TT rules, but I feel that a couple of missiles getting through every time is some real BS
AMS is mostly trash in MechWarrior online, the only good uses for it are on mechs like the corsair where it can carry enough of them for it to be worth it, Laser AMS is especially bad, so I get jump scared every time I see the word AMS cause of the horror from seeing it on my teammates mechs in MWO lol. I am still fairly new to tabletop so idk if it is any good there.
I dont. Anti-Missile systems are good in theory, but all they really do are penalize Cluster Hit tables for missiles. Under the standard rules they cannot even be 100% effective, so no matter what about 40% the shots will go through. Using optional rules they can reduce a missile cluster to 0%, Theres no Aegis Shield or Iron Dome shooting down all these missiles. Theres just this mildly useful pest control.
In the OLD rules the AMS used to shoot down missiles and not effect the cluster table at all. However it was only 1D6/2D6 (IS/Clan) missiles per AMS, so you needed multiple to negate a full LRM20 salvo most often. They also had MAJOR ammo problems in those rules.
Tend to mount AMS in campaigns on anything 85 tons or more. As Double Heat Sinks and other savings measures come available once you’re armored up, that AMS can help blunt the teeth of some nasty things. Longbows and LRM carriers come to mind
I use a home rule where the ams can intercept missiles being fired at other units within a three hex radius. I find it makes designs like the mist lynx A much better as support platforms.
I considered going into the advanced system that in-universe could do that, but I didn't want to get too far out into the wilds...
@@MechanicalFrog yeah the risc point defense system is pretty cool i hope it gets used in some new mechs.
@@lebe5894 It would be neat to see become a real established thing.
Yeah like the PDS, which is great and i hope comes back
@MechanicalFrog I'm unfamiliar with 32nd-century Mech design but it's struck me before that an overly heat-sinked medium with a laser AMS would be an interesting basis for a future trooper/bodyguard design
Ah the old AMS/LAMS the first tonns I always freed up in MW3 and MW4. It was only the great animation and sound of MWO that convinced me to leave this great toy on my mechs. Still never used one in tabletop but that time will come.
"soon"
Well thats gonna be a while. We get to play maybe once a month. Sometimes it takes more time to set up schedules. :P@@MechanicalFrog
While definitely not similar to table top rules, I do love MWO's Kit Fox with 3 laser AMS and a TAG. It becomes highly situational but its low profile and high maneuverability allows you to effectively hard counter multiple enemy LRM/MRM/ATM mechs at the same time while you focus on evasion and pinpointing enemy targets. It even pays not to run ECM because you want your opponents to generate heat and discard ammo in your direction.
For a light 30 Ton package, it takes an exceptionally skilled Pilot to swing the course of a battle as much as this little support unit.
Sounds like a riot.
The AMS in MechWarrior living legends is used for killing BA and nearby ASF and not missiles but the LAMS is for missiles and enough in one spot can even detonate a longtom round.
That would be something..
Not exactly a Battletech answer but I live by a certain rule in MWO. Every mech I build heavier than a light Must have an AMS and a BAP. You will always get some value out of both.
I'm glad they have some use in MWO.
Less on the tabletop, but one of my favorites for MWO was the Kit Fox with bloody THREE AMS. Absolutely devoured missile swarms.
Love the Kit Fox.
I'm of the opinion AMS needs a buff, and there are plenty of house rules that I've seen to do that. Enhanced AMS out of the BattleMech Manual (I think) negates a missile attack that is reduced below a roll of 2 (all missiles destroyed), or the house rule mentioned below of engaging missile attacks on all units inside a radius, not just defending yourself.
On the topic of buffs, I like the idea of burst fire machine guns, another optional rule mentioned in BMM: d6 damage and ammo expended, so 200 ammo in a ton isn't an utterly impractical amount to carry.
A house rule of "solid hit" with autocannons: a hit roll 2 above the target number (need 7, roll 9+) deals +2 damage (so AC-2+2, AC-5+2, etc). Makes an AC-10 a head capper in very specific circumstances, doesn't do that much for AC-20s, but makes AC-2s hit twice as hard, and a lot less a waste of tonnage in my opinion.
I would be supportive of a buff to the AMS.
Personally I ripped off HBS Battletech to rebalance autocannons. Tl;dr: All Mechs get one more structure point in the head so 12 damage is not a headcapper. AC-2s go to 5 damage and 25 rounds/ton, AC-5s to 8 damage and 15 rounds/ton and AC-10s to 12 damage and 10 rounds/ton.
Love the warhammer 7m variant that swaps out one machine gun for an ams. Especially since u really only need one machine gun to deal with infantry (at least in my experience)
I know that sound well.. and the weapon. It was my job in the Navy. NEC1127. Phalanx Close In Weapon System.
Must leave an impression seeing/hearing it in person.
@@MechanicalFrog it does. It sounds like a swarm of angry bees, and moves so fast, if you blink, you miss it.
Thank you for your service.
The laser AMS is always a go to when it comes to stuff like the crab for me
Crabs with AMS... hmm... I like it.
Hello Frog.
Personally, I love AMS systems. Even though the Laser AMS can be a real heat burden on a Mech, one cannot discount effective missile protection.
In the appropriate Eras, I try to fit at least 1 AMS and a ton of ammo for it onto as many Mechs as I can. Especially those that do not have such protection. In some cases, like the Archer Mech, I prefer to have Medium Lasers and LRMs, and leave the AMS system to a 'partner' Mech. Usually one with long ranged beams or Gauss weaponry to support the Archer(s).
I frustrated one opponent greatly when I fielded ALL my Mechs having AMS systems. His LRM-heavy force pretty much did diddly against my forces, while I picked him apart with my own missiles, and long ranged AC and Gauss hits. He didn't quit in a rage, like some players will when facing an opponent that so well countered his own forces... but he did say that so many AMS's was 'unfair'.
I jokingly asked where in the Geneva Conventions that it states that combat has to be 'even' or 'fair' to the opposition. And then I agreed that perhaps I had gone 'over board' on the AMS systems... perhaps. If he had fielded an 'all energy' force, I would have wasted all that tonnage devoted to anti-missile systems. And then... the shoe would have been on the other foot.
AMS is NOT a 'win button' item. There is NO such thing. But, it can keep your Mechs and vehicles in combat longer, by intercepting some of that LRM and SRM 'rain'.
And for me, for the most part, that is valuable enough to invest in... most of the time.
Excellent analysis. While obviously situational, it could throw a wrench in otherwise well laid plans. I like that.
Roguetech had a 60t Padilla PDS with enough aoe ams to single handedly protect the entire company.
Until Long Tom came calling.
Long Tom rounds trump everything.
I used to love and am still fond of AMS , but ive recently come around to you may as well run an ECM system for blocking the ubiquitous Artemis IV in later eras plus the ECM does more
Does the TT have wonky math to discourage having both?
@@tomarmadiyer2698 no having both would mean the ECM cancels out their Artemis then the AMS inflicts -2
AMS is decent protection if your armor is already maxxed and you have ECM, and especially if you have an armor type like reflective to mitigate non-missile hits
My preferred houserule is that it shoots down the first four missiles that would hit you, or five for a Laser AMS (thunderbolts counting as 1 missile per 5 damage)
It's nice to have the option. I like hearing all the house rules for this.
The old AMS rules were similar to this. In the original rules and even Battletech Master Rules (Revised) 1707, the system would shoot down 1d6 (2d6 for clan) missiles from the incoming salvo AFTER the number of hits was rolled. It had the effect in practice of being VERY effective vs SRMs and smaller systems, but not so much vs larger ones. Unfortunately in those rules it also used as much ammo up as the missiles shot down, meaning they were used up VERY fast and often house ruled to have 2-4 times the amount of ammo per ton.
As someone who's tabletop luck is absolutely horrific, I can say for sure that anything that forces my opponent to have a worse game is worth it.
Excellent reasoning. :D
You don't get to choose which missiles the AMS intercepts, it automatically intercepts the first one. In fact, AMS is an autonomous system that works even if you are unconscious. At least thats how i have always seen it played.
Total Warfare 130: ”If, in a single Weapon Attack Phase, more than one missile weapon successfully strikes the target in the attack direction covered by the firing arc where an AMS is mounted, the defending player can choose which (if any) missile weapon to inflict the modifier against.”
But yes, Mech Manual states that the AMS can be used even if the MechWarrior is unconscious.
Kind of odd that TW doesn’t mention that (or perhaps I’m just blind).
I'm going by the rulebook which states that the targeted player can choose which flight of missiles to intercept.
It is in TW.
@@MechanicalFrog Yeah, i know. The problem is that page 130 says "The player cannot choose for the AMS to not engage as the system is always active if it has ammo"....which kinda contradicts page 129 where its says players can choose to engage the system?
@@JH-ph4qb which printing do you have? I can’t for the life of me find that line in the latest one. I can’t discount the possibility that I’m just being dumb, though.
A custom novacat B where you drop one of the 6 lrm 15s completely and downgrade another to lrm10. All saved weight up the armor and add and ams and ammo. You now have a similar crazy support mech but you can now negate a decent amount of enemy lrm return fire toward you
The only game I've actually played so far is mw5, so I don't know much about the TT rules, but I feel that a couple of missiles getting through every time is some real BS
Fair complaint. I guess that's one more reason to consider making the leap to the laser AMS.
Ams would be great on a mech when using narrow/low profile quirks
Sure!
Bushwacker might be it
@@tomarmadiyer2698 The Bushwacker has taken a beating in the comments lately. It needs some love.
@@MechanicalFrog mw3 was my first so she will always have a place in my heart.
@@tomarmadiyer2698 I like it.
I recently finished an Initiate and it has a prominent AMS on the model. I haven't fielded it yet but I will soon.
Hopefully, it will prove useful.
@@MechanicalFrog it's a flexible all-rounder so it should!
@@STSGingie Sweet!
this one is a very simple one
we love AMS because he hate LRMs
That's fair.
@@MechanicalFrog if only my poor assault mechs could have more than one :*)
@@temp3608 Time for my 6 AMS Dire Wolf...
@@MechanicalFrog stupid clanners with their multiple AMS >:(
This is a positive comment for the algorithm gods, plus my laser AMS Corsair is a tank o7
This is a positive response to your positive comment. :D
o7
This is a salute to your salute, and tax for the dancing god al gore rhythm
AMS is mostly trash in MechWarrior online, the only good uses for it are on mechs like the corsair where it can carry enough of them for it to be worth it, Laser AMS is especially bad, so I get jump scared every time I see the word AMS cause of the horror from seeing it on my teammates mechs in MWO lol. I am still fairly new to tabletop so idk if it is any good there.
I like from mw5 hero catapult with twin ams
Love the weapon videos
Thank you!
Laser AMS yes
Very yes.
I dont. Anti-Missile systems are good in theory, but all they really do are penalize Cluster Hit tables for missiles. Under the standard rules they cannot even be 100% effective, so no matter what about 40% the shots will go through. Using optional rules they can reduce a missile cluster to 0%,
Theres no Aegis Shield or Iron Dome shooting down all these missiles. Theres just this mildly useful pest control.
What do you like? :D
@@MechanicalFrog Warhammer 40,000.
@@ChaosTicket Heh.
In the OLD rules the AMS used to shoot down missiles and not effect the cluster table at all. However it was only 1D6/2D6 (IS/Clan) missiles per AMS, so you needed multiple to negate a full LRM20 salvo most often. They also had MAJOR ammo problems in those rules.
We don't, it's kinda shit.
Take it back.
I jest
And I joke
And for the algorithm
Imma give a little poke