Richard Dawkins and Michael Aus discuss The Clergy Project
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- Опубліковано 26 бер 2012
- The Reverend Michael Aus came out as a non-believer on national television on March 25th 2012. Congratulations to Mike on his brave decision, and to the Clergy Project for giving him moral support. For more information about The Clergy Project see their website at www.clergyproject.org/
I actually cried when he said that for some of his friends this could be a deal-breaker. So sad.
Kudos to Michael for doing this and speaking out. And also thanks to "The Clergy project" for their great work.
Michael - I'm full of admiration for your courage. It can't be easy for a mature, dare I say middle aged, man to relinquish your career, social network and all the things that come with it on the grounds of personal belief (or non belief). Well done for being so brave.
I just listened to Mike Aus speak for the first time today and really liked what he had to say and the way he said it. Great to see him interviewed here by one of my heroes.
Congratulations Mike!!!!!
Welcome to rational thinking.
You have a wonderful opportunity now to continue your passion for helping people: you can help people to escape delusion, emotional abuse, trauma, unwarranted guilt, thought control, and fear, by helping hem escape the control of religion.
Best wishes on your exciting journey!
Wow, best news of the day. The Clergy Project sounds like a fantastic organization. Congratulation Mike!
I wish Mr. Aus all the best and I hope his former congregation treats him with the understanding he deserves.
I was 16 when I gave up on my belief in the Abrahamic god. I thought that was an ordeal. I was scared and upset... But this guy... He was Christian for many years and worked with the church! That takes courage. I applaud you sir.
Praise them, for they have opened their eyes!
Glad this guy came to his senses. I can understand why it would take so long for someone to let go, especially when your whole life revolved around religion.
Michael, the history of enlightened people who have countered the tsunamis of cultural misdirection reveals a common trait among them. Courage. We thank you for yours.
Awesome. You are a brave man for coming out.
Brave Man.
I wish more people would seriously and honestly think (based on logic and education) about THEIR OWN opinions, not just the ideas they've been told to believe with pride and fear of punishment, those ideas being right or wrong.
Good for you Michael Aus!
Good for him.Being a man of the cloth.That had to take a lot of courage!
Great video. Good for this chap. Hope to witness more like him in the future.
Religion is dying a slow death. Slowly, but it is dying nonetheless. Dying from the head down.
A brave man.
I met Dan before he lost his faith, or at least pubicly stated so. Back in the 80's. I'm glad he was able to come out and state his situation candidly.
Yes, good wishes to him!
I can fully understand why some doubting clergy members dont "come out", .. the consequences of such an action can have devastating effects on their lives in terms of alienation from family and friends, loss of income, etc. It must be like jumping out of a plane at 10,000 ft, and hoping the parachute will open.
Congratulations Mike, your honesty shines through.
Well it is good to see that after all of these years of non believing Mike comes out. Wish he would have done that before helping me into the church when I was a non believer and now that I am into the Church he comes out and says its all BS. I even have him in my wedding photo where he married my wife and I, Baptized me, my nieces, and so many others in false belief. Thanks.....
This is good news and I wish this man good luck with secularizing the world!
Excellent.
Congratulations!
He's got ten times the brains that you have! More like a hundred. Very, very intelligent man!
You got that right......very well put!!
well done for thinking
Well said and agreed.
Well done Mike.
With you on that one bro!
I like your humility. ;)
Right on homes!
You welcome me to inflict brain damage upon myself just to prove that everything is physical? Thank for the great advice & kindness, my friend. isn't it nicer to get along with people? I wish you peace!
In the most philious of ways, Mr Aus - I
Good man.
Letting go of all hope that the past will ever get better; forgiveness, it's not just a christian virtue.
Hope for the clergy and hope for the reason movement, to see someone so heavily entrenched in this stuff and to be able to move on, publicly at that. Good on both of you guys.
Oh and Mr.Dawkins, when is your next book out=P
this man has lost nothing . he has found truth and reason
Good luck Mike Aus. You come across as highly intelligent and a good speaker. I watched the interview on Up With Chris Hayes (via msnbc . com) and liked your comments on bridging the divide between religious community and atheists. You could do a lot of good for the secular movement.
It's 100% fine. I'm a christian and I think it's really nice what you are doing here.
The situation for a pastor who does not believe is grim. It's a very unique position. When he walks out he will lose not only his job but his friends and cultural identify as well. The temptation to live a lie must be huge, but still wrong. Perhaps talking to others will give them the confidence and network that allows them to leave and make a new life for themselves.
It is great that this guy has "come out" as a non believer but bible scholars who earn a living from religion may not find it so easy. I suspect Billy Graham never actually believed his rantings but it paid the bills!
Honesty and integrity should always trump blind fidelity.
You are a comedy genius, thanks for this brilliant comment it totally made my day. I think you totally fished this guy in, he thinks you are actually a believer
you are right
Awww, i want to hear "I want to be one of you friends" form Dawkins to... :(. And congrats to the clergy man.
This IS a significant moment, I feel, and perhaps the start of a major exit from the churches of many other nonbelievers.
Humility is for those without evidence.
There is a difference in believing something to be true based on evidence and believing something to be true in spite of it.
Yes....very good point !....the intellectual weakness of religion is why "faith" had to be emphasized.
+1 internetz to you sir!
Congratulationon, Michael Aus, for officially joining the reality-based community.
One has to applaud this former man of the cloth for finding the courage to go public with his non-belief. How many, we may wonder, remain as members of the clergy or priesthood, etc. regardless of coming to the view, there is no almighty God.
You are probably not that much different than me. I hope to live long... I eat simply and exercise vigorously! I don't know about prospering financially, but if one has his/her health, that is the greatest wealth! The same to you...Cheers, Dan
His coming out is a huge thing, especially for other pastors that no longer believe. Many of these clergymen feel trpped by their situation. Their entire lives revolve around being a "man of god", including their family. It is no small thing to tell everyone you know that you no longer believe in that which you have devoted your life to, especially when, most likely, the people people you're telling it to still believe. Of course these people need to be honest, but giving up ones life is hard.
What may be true for one may not be true for another purely on a personal level.
@caveatemp, if you haven't been there, you probably don't appreciate the gravity of the problems. I lost my faith while I was a missionary in a foreign country. It took me quite a while from the first blow to the time when I realized that it was a fatal one. There were many other questions: When and what do I tell my wife? Do I ever tell my kids? What about the churches and people who were sending us money? How do I support my family if I stop being a missionary? (cont.)
Part 1.
It is absolutely essential, regardless of denomination, for members of the clergy to announce their disenchantment with established religion and irrational faith. Their voices carry the message of logic and rationality further, due to their previous status as spiritual leaders and luminaries. Similarly, prominent libertarian Dr. Ron Paul tends to give greater legitimacy and possibility to the concepts comprising personal liberty while he maintains an unassuming, conservative lifestyle.
This is, for me really astonishing. i am finding out that my education was wonderfull. I am Canadian and here, compared to our neighbors (usa) we have a more open mind when it comes to science and reason. I believe it is normal to be open minded and it's freaky to say the least about religions and the impact on the people. The way i see it, religion is an accessory only for your lives, not a way of life.
I dont care if it is truth or not, it makes people feel like they have a fuller life with more meaning. Everyone should be able to believe what the want as long as there is mutual respect. No one should force an other to believe something.
It's so refreshing to see honest vicars. I'm sure a lot more vicars see the light but are scared to come out of the closet because they
will lose their livelihood.
There are a lot of things that most of us do not know anything about! We just think we do! Animals may no more just instinctively.
"I lost my faith while I was a missionary in a foreign country" Don't worry, you're not alone in this, read "Don't Sleep, There Are Snakes" by Daniel L. Everett.
free thinkers are not puppets
That would be good material for stand-up comedy! Lol
Right on...I am spiritual agnostic atheist! I think it is very spiritual to be an ATHEIST!!
Dawkins has an awesome tie.
Going Deep with KassemG Theme Song!!
Because Metaphysics has nothing to do with religion. I am a mystic. I am a Yogi & no one knows that path until they follow it. It is the path I chose and It strengthened and sustained me and it takes a lot of self discipline to do it. There are a lot of subtleties that science does not understand.
he said it took a long time
"I'm really REALLY thankful that Thomas Huxley was wise enough to create the word Agnostic, so that people like you and I have a logical wall of separation between us."
This is the core of your entire existence here. You are so afraid of a word that, incidentally, does describe you, per your own words, "The fact that as an Agnostic I also don't believe in any of the gods that man has reveled", that you cling to a belief that you have intellectual high ground because of your chosen label.
You know it all Tom, so there is no point in having some type of civil exchange of ideas without you throwing in some expletives. It really shows the depth of your intelligence.
Hooray! Morality wins over religion.
Apparently so, just look at our politicians. I seem to be unappologetically inept at it. Alas, all I have is what I perceive to be true. I often think that the art of BSing is one in which I will never excell.
Interesting. Questioning is great and we need to find new ways to be spiritual.
I find it interesting with the reference to reading the bible as a cure against religion/Christianity. As a teenager I thought that the best cure against communism among "believers" my age in my country was a trip to East Germany/DDR. No better cure than actual knowledge!
Where can i find the video where he publicly came out as an atheist?
I cannot help but wonder in which context his original faith was founded, and if it ended within that same context.
My points are:
-Religion has nothing to do with science. One is a way of life, the other is a way of proving stuff and solving problems. Hence a religious person can be a scientist and vice versa, they are not mutually exclusive.
- Religion should not hamper scientific progress and not force there way upon others, nor should scientist determine or stop what believers believe based on facts. Show respect for the choice and opinions of others.
That is what I believe
Why does it matter who created a word and how they defined it. Words can evolve over time and can mean more and different things.
That's not what atheists are cheering him on for! They're praising him for having the courage to "come out" at all!
But I agree with you on integrity: if you're not a believer, you shouldn't claim for one second to be one, let alone to be a pastor.
I'm just glad he finally snapped out of it. Kudos where kudos is due...
And then one reads about Huxley, and, given the most recent philosophical stances of Skinner et al. regarding the "question to which the philosopher was trying to answer" we understand the term agnostic to be useful in a situation where being an atheist was far less accepted, and in addition the term itself, as defined by Huxley, refers to ones capability to make conclusions and when one should refrain from doing so, not thus limited to the idea of a belief in God.
Beliefs inform actions. Actions such as the sorely misled, yet entirely faithful men who flew planes into buildings on September 11, 2001. While not all religious people are fanatical zealots, their beliefs can still inform actions that are just as dangerous. When a man believes that his thoughts are in concordance with an all powerfull being, he is capable of justifying anything.
Of course, no one told me such a thing. Mainly because of the vague and changing description of everyone's different gods, it kind of hard to ever say that there absolutely isn't one. Now, onto what I really said. I was comenting on a claim about "faith" in science and "faith" in god. More to the point, belief in scientific principals as opposed to belief in a god.
He's only human. Like he said, it happened in increments!
I notice you have not answered my question nor acknowledged my point, but it's no big deal. It sounds like your life is pretty well worked out, good for you. Enjoy it.
where does Dawkins get his ties?! I want them.
I understand what ur trying to say,but belief is equal to saying i wish this was so, and as we all (some) know, wishing has never been based on fact..this 'is' what separates a believer from a sceptic.
Dawkins is so pleasant.
If only the video had 1 more second...
The difference between faith and religion is bureaucracy.
Yes: Mumbo Jumbo.
"there is faith in what one believes to be true even if it isn't" Yes, known as a delusion.
"Things that we do not see with the naked eye may exist.. " "may" is not, was not and never will be an argument.
Part 2.
Dr. Paul chooses to advocate the frequently challenged precepts and contentious practices associated with divisive areas involving individual freedom, while maintaining a virtuous personal life devoid of any such controversial behavior. Likewise, former clergy have a better chance of legitimizing and advancing the cause of reason as a result of the rather conventional path they once traveled.
You want syrup with that waffle?
I'm an atheist. Although I believe in freedom of belief I do not respect everyones beliefs. If a belief is lacking proof or is even disproven then I have no respect for that belief. I also have a great respect for the truth. There is nothing greater than the truth.
It's sad that it's seen as brave... but that's the way the world is..and he is.
What is the "dark matter"?
How about "The Church of Scientific Atheism". Sounds good to me!
Depending on what part of the Bible you read, is it really being truthful cherry-.picking for the good stuff?
Actually, I understood the part about him losing his faith. I'm talking about people who stay in the paid church positions after losing their faith, someone I know personally. I never said or implied that the man in the video entered the church as an atheist. I think it's just a matter of your anger blinding you to basic facts and civil discourse.