GM document #PIP4548G. Happens too often. Moving the reluctor as you did and staking it a bit is a good fix though GM recommends cam replacement. We have that PIP listed in ALLDATA also. Great fix sir!
Of course GM would recommend a replacement...all the while not making any production change(s) and the continuation of pumping out the same failure prone parts; that's why I left the GM fanboy boat years ago; it started w/me when I had a '99 Lumina w/3.1L V6, w/leaky intake gaskets...paid to have the job done, twice! I cornered the Chevy service writer at that dealership, he commented "heh, yeah, we're thinking GM DELIBERATELY cuts the intake gaskets 1/8-1/4" too short" when producing these engines. Why would a company knowingly keep pumping crap out like this?!?! Never again. Owners of the 2.8/3.1/3.4L V6 engines all apply;
I have a 2008 Colorado with the same code P0017. When it was new, less than 1000 miles this code showed up and the dealer changed the VVT solenoid 3x. Then a few months later they changed the cam phaser on the exhaust camshaft. Then at 35000 miles just before the drivetrain warr expired the same code and the dealer changed the cam phaser again. At about 50k the problem came back. For the last 10 years that code shows up most/all the time. The truck runs fine. The moral of the story is stop buying GM unless you enjoy spending thousands of dollars on repairs.
@@Archangel2020 it was definitely a first that I’ve seen one move, I’ve got a feeling with the amount of oil it eats, I’ll be replacing more than just the camshaft someday if they don’t get rid of it haha
Those are the issues that take time, and make us feel so good when we find it. Yes, cast iron can be brazed, but get someone who can do it right.... my city of 400,000 people only has one guy that does cast iron.
Good video. That motor looks like it's skipped a few oil changes. You can peen around the base of the weight/tone sensor with a center punch and that will hold it. Probably cheap foreign made parts. Not too long ago most everything was made in the USA or Canada where you could expect quality parts.
Probably bean counters insisted on this. Quoting from Charles Kettering who was a founder of Delco and was head of research at GM for many years, "Parts left out cost nothing, require no maintenance, and do not fail." I think that could also apply to machine work, the cost of labor to machine a key way etc.
TSB PIP4548G might help. "Hands on Auto Training" also has a video with some scope shots. I think there were (at least) 2 different actuators/chains for these engines so be careful before spinning stuff or looking at scope shots.
You know the vibration harmonics moved that wheel from the bad timing set. And your oil pickup tube screen in the oil pan has a suprise for you for that engine 😂 Hold on 😮, later on the engine is gonna start consuming oil and destroy itself from the piston ring recall, GM likes to deny 😉 Welcome to garbage motors GM 😊
I bought a 2014 Terrain. 102k It was ran out of oil and previous oil change 100k at the dealership. It bend all the intake valves. I put new pistons and rings phasers solenoids and high pressrure fuel pump. Within 3k it spun a rod bearing. Come to find out the AC delco HPFP I replaced was leaking fuel in the oil
good job. cut that oil film between the ring and cam. and do a blotch of jweld 11oc and 7oc, it wonder if it moves because of a strange harmonic. or its temperature, maybe a sign that it has been overheated?
Anyone else wonder why engineers insist on slavishly obsessing with heavy, expensive, failure-prone OHC architectures when modern cam-in-block designs such as the LS deliver comparable fuel economy, volumetric efficiency and specific HP at the engine speeds most drivers utilize 99 percent of the time?
@@tobymichaels8171 I agree with you on this one. I prefer the K.I.S.S. Method myself. Keep It Simple Stupid. It seems to be a lot of these modern designs do not seem to hold up like the older ones do
This design and quality control are totally inexcusable. Press fit or shrink fit parts need tight quality control and 100% critical characteristic inspection. GM sucks ass.
Half ass repair when they thought they were selling it, then got bit when they didn’t and had to do the chain again. Good karma there. Next up they’ll run it out of oil. Who puts that many resources into an oil burner with a poor maintenance history?
Why can't GM stake that tone ring in place at the factory? Why? Because they want to sell you a new camshaft. Poor engineering, poor manufacturing. Same goes for Ford's crank sprocket that has no keyway nor key to position it. It relies on the torque of the harmonic balancer bolt to keep everything in alignment. Oh yeah, and Ford's better idea, wet belts to drive the oil pump and camshafts.
You don't have to tack weld it brother. Just stand the camshaft on its end and stake it in place with a sharp center punch, the peen it flat with a ball peen hammer and it's good to go! 🤣👍 Wags Automotive on UA-cam!
@@HouseCallAutoRepair yup, this is just a “beater” for them currently. They are actively looking for something else to drive as well, just trying to nurse this one along.
drill into the middle of the groove and drive in a split pin to lock the tone ring and the camshaft, install it with loctite.
GM document #PIP4548G. Happens too often. Moving the reluctor as you did and staking it a bit is a good fix though GM recommends cam replacement. We have that PIP listed in ALLDATA also.
Great fix sir!
Of course GM would recommend a replacement...all the while not making any production change(s) and the continuation of pumping out the same failure prone parts; that's why I left the GM fanboy boat years ago; it started w/me when I had a '99 Lumina w/3.1L V6, w/leaky intake gaskets...paid to have the job done, twice! I cornered the Chevy service writer at that dealership, he commented "heh, yeah, we're thinking GM DELIBERATELY cuts the intake gaskets 1/8-1/4" too short" when producing these engines. Why would a company knowingly keep pumping crap out like this?!?! Never again. Owners of the 2.8/3.1/3.4L V6 engines all apply;
@@foreignisdomesticnow2142 dollar💲💵
Crazy find, you are a smart man. Those cams could stand to be changed, they look absolutely disgusting lol. Thanks for sharing!
GM has a bulletin or tsb on this for the ring turning. Agree you had nothing to lose trying it. Glad it worked out for you.
I must of overlooked the bulletin, maybe it didn’t cover this specific year? But yes I’m glad it worked out as well!!
@irv2690 good detective work!
I’m sure this video will help many over the years! Good job 👏 sir
I have a 2008 Colorado with the same code P0017. When it was new, less than 1000 miles this code showed up and the dealer changed the VVT solenoid 3x. Then a few months later they changed the cam phaser on the exhaust camshaft. Then at 35000 miles just before the drivetrain warr expired the same code and the dealer changed the cam phaser again. At about 50k the problem came back. For the last 10 years that code shows up most/all the time. The truck runs fine. The moral of the story is stop buying GM unless you enjoy spending thousands of dollars on repairs.
Nice Catch Sir! Those are the BEST !!!! Done MANY 2.4L Timing Sets, only seen one reluctor move. I did replace the cam, not a Family members car.....
@@Archangel2020 it was definitely a first that I’ve seen one move, I’ve got a feeling with the amount of oil it eats, I’ll be replacing more than just the camshaft someday if they don’t get rid of it haha
It pays to sit quiet and be observant (sometimes)!
TIG tack it, with no filler, once er twice. It won't need much to stick there.
Nice find!
A fix is always superior to swap, nice share
Those are the issues that take time, and make us feel so good when we find it.
Yes, cast iron can be brazed, but get someone who can do it right.... my city of 400,000 people only has one guy that does cast iron.
It definitely felt good once I figured it out for sure!
Good video. That motor looks like it's skipped a few oil changes. You can peen around the base of the weight/tone sensor with a center punch and that will hold it. Probably cheap foreign made parts. Not too long ago most everything was made in the USA or Canada where you could expect quality parts.
That's pretty slick. Good eye 👍🏼
Thanks 👍
Great find
Ive heard of this on one other engine...I think the pentastar v6 has pressed together cams and this stuff can happen. Crazy!
Seriously impressive and helpful!!!
@@MotorBoaterJake-kl9wl thanks I appreciate that
no keyway, no dowel pin to hold it in place? how can over 100 years of engines, they could make such a horrible design error?
Yeah this one definitely threw me for a loop
probably designed that way on purpose, so when the slip happens no one can find it and the person buys another vehicle and WaLa! ... another sale.
If it stays in place til the warranty expires then it’s done it’s job
Probably bean counters insisted on this. Quoting from Charles Kettering who was a founder of Delco and was head of research at GM for many years, "Parts left out cost nothing, require no maintenance, and do not fail." I think that could also apply to machine work, the cost of labor to machine a key way etc.
on purpose
TSB PIP4548G might help. "Hands on Auto Training" also has a video with some scope shots. I think there were (at least) 2 different actuators/chains for these engines so be careful before spinning stuff or looking at scope shots.
Yes I installed both new chains due to broken guides and excess slop and play in them.
Very informative video. Thanks again
1:31. With that much material on there, oil burning and 160K, I would call an engine on that one.
Try having the cam lobes spun on the hollow camshafts they equipping vehicles with for some time now....
That's called dedication! Hard to find good mechanics these days.
I appreciate it! I just enjoy figuring things out.
@irv2690 I'm the same way. I always tell guys there's a reason for everything. Love to know why! Lol Again, great job my friend
I have seen this issue before, but though that the ring in question was a magnetic ring, and we changed the cams
You know the vibration harmonics moved that wheel from the bad timing set.
And your oil pickup tube screen in the oil pan has a suprise for you for that engine 😂
Hold on 😮, later on the engine is gonna start consuming oil and destroy itself from the piston ring recall, GM likes to deny 😉
Welcome to garbage motors GM 😊
I bought a 2014 Terrain. 102k It was ran out of oil and previous oil change 100k at the dealership. It bend all the intake valves. I put new pistons and rings phasers solenoids and high pressrure fuel pump. Within 3k it spun a rod bearing. Come to find out the AC delco HPFP I replaced was leaking fuel in the oil
Yikes
From now on, I'll leave service of all my cars with any GM mechanics considering how they are so abused and still survive.😊
good job. cut that oil film between the ring and cam. and do a blotch of jweld 11oc and 7oc, it wonder if it moves because of a strange harmonic. or its temperature, maybe a sign that it has been overheated?
Excellent.
I had a friend he paid a mechanic 4000 dls for new cams and chain. 😮
If your using a stick welder try using a stainless rod. It will adhere to the cast better.
I’ll have to try that next time, thanks!
floating cam lobes, MB does this, all the cams pressed on a pipe, improper clearances , they move
it another timing mark?? 10 degrees one way or the other??
Anyone else wonder why engineers insist on slavishly obsessing with heavy, expensive, failure-prone OHC architectures when modern cam-in-block designs such as the LS deliver comparable fuel economy, volumetric efficiency and specific HP at the engine speeds most drivers utilize 99 percent of the time?
@@tobymichaels8171 I agree with you on this one. I prefer the K.I.S.S. Method myself. Keep It Simple Stupid. It seems to be a lot of these modern designs do not seem to hold up like the older ones do
Would it help to clean with brake cleaner and then drip red locktite alongside the toner ring.
@@randykovalenko1236 that’s a good idea, maybe i could try that if the problem persists
This design and quality control are totally inexcusable. Press fit or shrink fit parts need tight quality control and 100% critical characteristic inspection. GM sucks ass.
how did you decide which way to rotate?
@@jbenedict967 just by looking at a picture of a new one online
You have to TIG weld it
That’s what I was going to do, but I didn’t get it clean enough
I can see a lack of oil change man
Yeah it’s pretty common with all that eco tec power you snap that throttle hard they will move must have too much power 😂
@@chadgardee1496 hah yeah all those horses pulling🤣
What is causing this reluctor to move?
I’m really not sure, I assume the lack of oil changes, and heat cycles, maybe just a combination of all of these things.
👍
Half ass repair when they thought they were selling it, then got bit when they didn’t and had to do the chain again. Good karma there. Next up they’ll run it out of oil. Who puts that many resources into an oil burner with a poor maintenance history?
Do away with all of that and make an electric selinoid for each cylinder
Na that’s a good find jus joking 😂
Why can't GM stake that tone ring in place at the factory? Why? Because they want to sell you a new camshaft. Poor engineering, poor manufacturing. Same goes for Ford's crank sprocket that has no keyway nor key to position it. It relies on the torque of the harmonic balancer bolt to keep everything in alignment. Oh yeah, and Ford's better idea, wet belts to drive the oil pump and camshafts.
Stupid engineering
You don't have to tack weld it brother. Just stand the camshaft on its end and stake it in place with a sharp center punch, the peen it flat with a ball peen hammer and it's good to go! 🤣👍 Wags Automotive on UA-cam!
Thanks for the tip, I’ll have to do that
🤔, great tip!
@paulcondie2520 Thank you sir! I've been down that road before. It's amazing to me the garbage that car manufacturers make today. "designed to fail"!
@@WagsAutomotive 👊
@irv2690 No problem brother keep on keepin on! 😁👍
Great Find!
The color of the cam and cap between 3 and 4 didn't look so good, either.
@@HouseCallAutoRepair yup, this is just a “beater” for them currently. They are actively looking for something else to drive as well, just trying to nurse this one along.