I'm a Grognard that played in 1 and 2 and then took a 30 year break and since the players are in 5e, that's what I decided to learn when I came back. @5:45 the OSR style of Player Decision push rather than story push is great! I see some of that in sections of official sources, like Barovia's and IceWind Dale's Point Crawl, or Chult's Hex Crawl formats. There are some players that don't see the leads or can't prioritize the leads. @6:31 After several big books - I think the official sources need to start pushing world and region books and the adventures should be soft cover smaller books. Less full page of text rooms in a dungeon where the critical information is NOT EVEN BOLDED so a DM can run it on the first read through! Yeah, I have complaints but the players are in 5e. I just want better... OSR style... DM Support and there will probably be more DM's to support the Players.
I tried to run the 5e Tomb of Annihilation campaign and I think a lot of the player options for 5e take the fun out of a hex crawl. I’ve thought about adapting it for something like BFRPG or Labyrinth Lord but haven’t gotten around to it. I do agree we need more soft cover adventures in the 25-50 page range like the original B/X adventures.
6:10 I am probably a failure, both as a Player and as a DM (in my limited experience doing that role), because yes, I do basically want to be pushed along a story, I do not feel nearly creative, nearly good enough at anything to really create my part of the story, aside from some badly-done roleplay and less than optimal combat decisions.
There’s nothing wrong with wanting to be given a story to follow if that’s what everyone is expecting. However I have found that giving the players a situation and watching them decide what is important and the story growing out of that has been far more enjoyable for me. I think playing with a group that is willing to guide you a bit can make all the difference.
I tried to get back into RPGs in early 2023 after a decade hiatus. Found what I thought would be a good group, turns out it was a "Paid DM" thing, so I nope'd out of there. Found a group at my library, played a session or two, and got so immediately disgusted with what D&D™️ had become. Enemies weren't defeated in combat or smart negotiation, but instead by beating them at festival games. Every PC was some multiclass abomination so they would have no faults. Players brought real world politics into the game and the DM encouraged it. All of the new adventures were railroads where player agency didn't exist, and the players expected this. The worst part of all, players heads were buried in their character sheets, not paying attention to what is happening at the table. This was at all of the tables there, not just mine. I wasn't having fun. Then the OGL debacle hit. I realized I needed to be the change I wanted to see, so I dropped playing D&D™️ and looked at different game styles. Found this thing called "the OSR" and fell in love. Grabbed the PDFs for Basic Fantasy and I was sold. I've been running BFRPG ever since. Multiclass abominations were out, I don't allow politics (except appropriate in-universe politics), it's not a railroad, festivals and games are a sideshow not the show, player decisions matter, heads aren't turned down to the character sheet, and the game is free for my players to get copies. I now run the largest table at the gaming group (eight players every week), all of which are converted 5e players. Many of my players have told me they were sick of 5e themselves. I'm glad this style of gameplay is still alive and kicking. I probably wouldn't have given RPGs another chance.
You know you can just discuss expectations during session 0 instead of switching systems. If your players are looking for a different experience than the one you want to give, that just means the players don't fit you, you don't have to change systems. Same goes for OSR games. If an OSR game has a mechanic you don't like, then drop the mechanic. If it has a piece of lore or world metaphysics you don't like, then drop it. If you don't like the old school "Order good, chaos bad." then ditch it, don't like magical corruption for spell fumbles? Then ditch it. Don't like character funnels that act as a meat grinder and don't let you get invested in a character? Chuck it. you have the choice on how to play a system. Rulings not rules is still somewhat baked into D&D and it is a cornerstone of the OSR, so embody that no matter what system you have. As long as you are all having fun, that is what counts.
I agree to some extent but I will say there is nothing wrong with switching systems if there is a system that does what you want to do better than what you are playing. I’m an advocate of making a game your own but some games do what they do well and maybe don’t do what you want them to do so well. Instead of trying to force the game your playing to be something it is not then finding a system that does what you want to do is a viable option. But yes expectations should be discussed as a group before the campaign starts. However at the time I was a fledgling DM and was still finding my style. I got excited about exploring different games and my group framed everything in relation to 5e. So any system that wasn’t those mechanics fell short with them. It’s not their fault, that was just what they wanted to play.
@@heroeshomebrew online????? do you dm? i went to a game store the other day to play with a random group. never again. three 12 year olds and a 45 yo man wearing elf ears. i left.
Well my group did. I certainly don’t think that’s representative of all 5e players. That was just my experience with a lot of the players I played with.
I had the same experience with several p2e groups, as well. No, I don't know what your motivation for being an adventurer is. Perhaps this character needs to retire and become a merchant?
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I'm a Grognard that played in 1 and 2 and then took a 30 year break and since the players are in 5e, that's what I decided to learn when I came back.
@5:45 the OSR style of Player Decision push rather than story push is great! I see some of that in sections of official sources, like Barovia's and IceWind Dale's Point Crawl, or Chult's Hex Crawl formats. There are some players that don't see the leads or can't prioritize the leads.
@6:31 After several big books - I think the official sources need to start pushing world and region books and the adventures should be soft cover smaller books. Less full page of text rooms in a dungeon where the critical information is NOT EVEN BOLDED so a DM can run it on the first read through!
Yeah, I have complaints but the players are in 5e. I just want better... OSR style... DM Support and there will probably be more DM's to support the Players.
I tried to run the 5e Tomb of Annihilation campaign and I think a lot of the player options for 5e take the fun out of a hex crawl. I’ve thought about adapting it for something like BFRPG or Labyrinth Lord but haven’t gotten around to it. I do agree we need more soft cover adventures in the 25-50 page range like the original B/X adventures.
great explanation. so perfect
Thanks!
Awesome vid bud, lots of great points.
Keep em rollin
Thanks. I appreciate it.
1:08 when you said "more options for players", i first heard that as "morons for players"
Lmao that is definitely not what I said lol
Hmmm, both can be true. Haha
I fall into that category sometimes lol
@@RPGDAD1980 I say nothing
6:10 I am probably a failure, both as a Player and as a DM (in my limited experience doing that role), because yes, I do basically want to be pushed along a story, I do not feel nearly creative, nearly good enough at anything to really create my part of the story, aside from some badly-done roleplay and less than optimal combat decisions.
There’s nothing wrong with wanting to be given a story to follow if that’s what everyone is expecting. However I have found that giving the players a situation and watching them decide what is important and the story growing out of that has been far more enjoyable for me. I think playing with a group that is willing to guide you a bit can make all the difference.
I tried to get back into RPGs in early 2023 after a decade hiatus. Found what I thought would be a good group, turns out it was a "Paid DM" thing, so I nope'd out of there. Found a group at my library, played a session or two, and got so immediately disgusted with what D&D™️ had become. Enemies weren't defeated in combat or smart negotiation, but instead by beating them at festival games. Every PC was some multiclass abomination so they would have no faults. Players brought real world politics into the game and the DM encouraged it. All of the new adventures were railroads where player agency didn't exist, and the players expected this. The worst part of all, players heads were buried in their character sheets, not paying attention to what is happening at the table. This was at all of the tables there, not just mine. I wasn't having fun. Then the OGL debacle hit.
I realized I needed to be the change I wanted to see, so I dropped playing D&D™️ and looked at different game styles. Found this thing called "the OSR" and fell in love. Grabbed the PDFs for Basic Fantasy and I was sold. I've been running BFRPG ever since. Multiclass abominations were out, I don't allow politics (except appropriate in-universe politics), it's not a railroad, festivals and games are a sideshow not the show, player decisions matter, heads aren't turned down to the character sheet, and the game is free for my players to get copies. I now run the largest table at the gaming group (eight players every week), all of which are converted 5e players. Many of my players have told me they were sick of 5e themselves.
I'm glad this style of gameplay is still alive and kicking. I probably wouldn't have given RPGs another chance.
That seems to be a familiar story for a lot of people. BFRPG is a great system and perfect for bringing 5e players into this style of play.
You know you can just discuss expectations during session 0 instead of switching systems. If your players are looking for a different experience than the one you want to give, that just means the players don't fit you, you don't have to change systems.
Same goes for OSR games. If an OSR game has a mechanic you don't like, then drop the mechanic. If it has a piece of lore or world metaphysics you don't like, then drop it. If you don't like the old school "Order good, chaos bad." then ditch it, don't like magical corruption for spell fumbles? Then ditch it. Don't like character funnels that act as a meat grinder and don't let you get invested in a character? Chuck it.
you have the choice on how to play a system. Rulings not rules is still somewhat baked into D&D and it is a cornerstone of the OSR, so embody that no matter what system you have. As long as you are all having fun, that is what counts.
I agree to some extent but I will say there is nothing wrong with switching systems if there is a system that does what you want to do better than what you are playing. I’m an advocate of making a game your own but some games do what they do well and maybe don’t do what you want them to do so well. Instead of trying to force the game your playing to be something it is not then finding a system that does what you want to do is a viable option.
But yes expectations should be discussed as a group before the campaign starts. However at the time I was a fledgling DM and was still finding my style. I got excited about exploring different games and my group framed everything in relation to 5e. So any system that wasn’t those mechanics fell short with them. It’s not their fault, that was just what they wanted to play.
where are you located?????? im a 51'yo gamer and cant find a osr game. everything is 5th edition.
I’m in Montreal. All my gaming is online. I’d love to have an in person home game but online is way more convenient.
@@heroeshomebrew online????? do you dm? i went to a game store the other day to play with a random group. never again. three 12 year olds and a 45 yo man wearing elf ears. i left.
@@ChrisWar-rm3uk yeah my group plays online using discord and owlbear rodeo. Right now we’re doing a co-op game of Twilight 2000.
@@heroeshomebrew that the post apocalyptic one?
@@ChrisWar-rm3uk It is. It’s more of a realistic post-apoc game. We’re playing the Free League edition. It’s a lot of fun.
My word, they really want to be spoon-fed don't they? 0:50
Well my group did. I certainly don’t think that’s representative of all 5e players. That was just my experience with a lot of the players I played with.
I had the same experience with several p2e groups, as well. No, I don't know what your motivation for being an adventurer is. Perhaps this character needs to retire and become a merchant?
@@aiacfrosti1772 lol I never thought of presenting that as an option.
@@sanshinobi3664 Agreed