1 on 1 conversation: ua-cam.com/video/7MgBX5QJlUM/v-deo.html&ab_channel=KingNidhogg Original Video: ua-cam.com/video/GGbakP-ADY0/v-deo.htmlsi=plxL9rGWYizHlxch Thanks for watching, i'm live here playing with WASD Binds lmao: www.twitch.tv/king_nidhogg
@@KingNidhogg you started off the video so patient and respectful, and towards the end I could tell you were losing your patience with how stubborn this guy is. I think he just wants to create controversial content to get views off of it lol
In fighting games, when the Hitbox came out, it is a controller that has 4 buttons for directions instead the stick. It was out fot years and wasnt very popular. The the GOAT Diago picked it up because he realised it was optimal for him. Then suddenly everyone started picking it up.
this is the first thing that came to my mind as well, I'm a hitbox player and it takes some players months to get used it yet it is objectively optimal for certain movements
Hitbox is the controller I use for fighting games. Nobody thought it was anything special when it first came out but now it is considered the most optimal control setup, even being banned at tournaments a few times. If you’ve already been playing for a while, just stick with whatever controller you are used to. But if you are a new player, the Hitbox is probably worth learning. I think the same is true for the WASD setup in league.
I honestly respect you for doing this video in a calm manner, because I can entirely imagine there'd be a certain anger infused "wtf?" behind your calmness and rightfully so.. he didn't address anything!! that's a perfect example of someone going into an argument in bad faith, he just decided to disagree before he starts watching the video...
I disagree with Nemesis on his key take. League AT THE MOMENT is a shooter game, it is popular because it is similar to Counter-Strike 1.5 mode 5v5. While valorant is more of a kind done in the feel of Quake3, which explains why it is so unpopular, because we are in transition like in good old times, from Arcade to Strategical.
basically just league players not caring too much and taking the piss out. it's all good as long as they dont pretend their comments are genuinely worthwhile lmao
yeah and the default is what they are used but how old are those binds you know? Of course the game is a lot less about mechanics than game sense as the game sense leads to mechanics very heavily.
nemesis's response + these comments are so annoying and definitely speak to the mindset of the league community. why are people this emotional about someone trying to innovate the game and share their findings and potentially help others? I also dont understand why Nemesis seemed so upset by this without actually being able to actually give good reasoning or arguments to WHY its bad to the point that u had to steelman his arguments. this shit makes me sigh bro lmao great video thanks for having a real discussion on youtube even if a bunch of other people cant
@@BlackBurnBear Ithink you are still missing the point. Correct me if I'm wrong, but King Nidhogg in your example would be suggesting the more rounded wheel (that could be potentially more optimal), but that does not interfere with your set of round wheels (which you can be absolutely satisfied with). I think we are all wondering where this hatred/dislike came from. Nowhere does he say this is the only way to play... so any viewer can just go on with their day and not change how they play League of Legends. My analogy would be that: You can cook a dish by following a recipe. One can tweak a recipe through differing cooking techniques, as well as differing ingredients and their portions used. King Nidhogg is simply trying to teach us how to cook in this cooking video. I hope I speak for the majority when I say when I see a cooking/recipe video, if I felt like it was not for me, I would usually just click on another video of a similar topic and go on with my day. The only time I would theoretically even consider downvoting a video is probably if I tried following the recipe, but the end product came out inedible. The point I am trying to make is why downvote and tell others to downvote the cooking video if one did not even try the recipe for oneself in the first place? Now I'm just wondering if I am in the minority, and actually the majority of those who watch cooking videos downvote every video they come across that does not 100% satisfy their own criteria of what is good or not. Hope you're chill and have a nice day.
@@BlackBurnBear I dont care if you use ur original or ur 2000 years aphellios wheel. why do u care what wheel someones using if u already have one that works? Its one thing to not agree with using wasd its another to just shit on the argument without giving a proper reason. Hope u understood my analogy xoxo
When you're used to people accepting your opinion as big facts because you're pro player, you can just shit on other opinions without giving any proper arguments. Nothing to it but to do it.
It doesn't have anything to do with innovation. The initial video is just failing to show any upside to wasd. No examples and nothing really convinces. If you make a video with a new idea, of course you get laughed it when you don't make any real arguments for it
Man I swear I was hyped at first to see Nemesis reaction to your video (that I found interesting even if I won't use it myself). But the bitterness made me really uncomfortable because I watch a lot of your content and I know you're not BS. Felt pretty bad watching it. Your PR response as you called it was on point as expected and I appreciate your little advices at the end. Take care man you're the hidden goat. Cheers from France
nemesis malding for no reason, literally the only issue I have found is the inability to move the camera while using an ability that requires holding down a key (vlad E, xerath Q etc). other than that, being able to lower dpi and focus on mouse movements and clicks that are actually important has been a huge plus for me.
Hmm no I never did that in the years I played him, always unlocked cam. My center camera button is on G as well so cant really hold it either (using space for attack move)@@inLogiex
His video feels like that "quit having fun!" meme, guy is just angry that you're trying something different and finding success while doing it. Keep it up, your videos are actually helping people get better at the game.
You are entirely missing the point. The "fun" was just a reference to a meme. The way Nidhogg helps people get better at the game is by showing alternative ways to play and therefore opening up the conversation towards or individual's mindsets regarding how to play. Also, his name is spelt Nidhogg, it's right there on your screen.@@RMadaraPlay
@@RMadaraPlay do you think people join league and are just naturally challenger? you act like this guy was born a challenger and now he's just spewing misinformation. truly sit and think about what you are doing with your left hand when you are playing. if you don't use the WASD camera control, i guarantee that you are not using your left hand at all times. in contrast, you DEFINITELY are using your right hand at all times unless you just don't attack move and stand still auto-attacking like an AI. for you to claim that there's too much load on your left hand when you don't mention the right-hand whatsoever is a horrible bad faith argument. admittedly, I'm not the highest apm player nor am i the most skilled, but i am emerald and have been that mmr for the last 3 years while playing like 10-100 ranked games a season. That's not great at all, but that does statistically put me above ~85% of players. and even with that, i strain my right hand way too much, especially in the games when I play adc where positioning matters the most. so for you to come and say "this is just wrong", i just can't agree with that. i can agree if you said "hey this playstyle just isn't for me", but typing this biased comment is not the way to go. And before you say im biased myself... Sincerely, a non-WASD user (who does feel the right-hand/wrist strain)
I watched the first video, I got your humour, I was able to separate it from the actual (good) advice you gave. I really appreciated that you even stated in the video that you are hamming it up, and that at the end of the day we want to do what works for us. I really want to try your method, but I know it probably isn't something I need to worry about. Maybe one day I will, but for now the rest of the game is overwhelming enough, and I play so little (comparatively to others), I'm happy with where I'm at in my learning journey. I would say I'm a sensitive person, and that a lot of stuff people say and do in League upsets me, with that said: you don't upset me, and I value your videos highly. Keep it up, I hope you're having a good time doing whatever is you're up to. Take care! :) Also, there's an idiom: don't knock it till you try it, but someone who is going to prejudge, isn't going to be able to objectively try it. If you really want to disprove this video, you have to commit to trying to learn it, to see what it's like. Saying something like what you're suggesting is bad without having any experience with it, is foolish.
I agree with the end part. When i first watched the nemesis vid he would just say "so wrong just wrong" without explaining anything or engaging with the content. These are the worst people to talk to
The problem Nemesis has with the video is that it's all misinformation all clickbait in the framing of the video. The guy who made this even admits that in this video, paraphrasing "I did this for views". The original video is framed as "short cuts to improve at the game" when it is only going to make players worse, this is the same problem skill capped videos have. Trying to teach mid game macro to a silver player is only going to make them more frustrated, more confused, more toxic and probably worse, why? Because mid game macro is never the reason a silver player is in silver. Nemesis want to insure people understand the message of the video is bullshit, because it is, HE EVEN ADMITS THIS IN THIS RESPONS VIDEO. This is honestly a complete misread on what Nemesis point is. The single biggest problem with the original video is that it's targeted at new players as a way to improve.
@@notieming dude, if you see the video and you can't hear his tone of voice and understand that he is making a giant joke while presenting some tips that you can apply to your gameplay. Is not misinformation if you can think for yourself a tiny bit. You can clearly see that he is oversimplifying for the sake of the video and entertainment. But also, if you cab think by yourself, you can understand ehat he doesn't say directly.
@@OsnofAhcor wtf are you on about? It's not obvious that the video is a joke, it's presented as educational which is why I have a problem with it. He ends the video by saying "I hope you go and try these things, this is the best coaching advice I can give anyone. You have terrible camera control, I can almost guarantee it. The moment you get that down, you're going to be a way better player. And lower your DPI". This is literally misinformation, you won't get better camera movement by switching to these binds, and you will not become a better player by lowering your DPI.
@@notieming you realy can't read the things that are between the thing there are not between.. I encourage you to think more. Just because A is not B doesn't mean that A is also not C. Sometimes A not being B menas that A is C, but other times A not being B means that A is also not C. Don't even get me started with D. Is a lot dude. We just have to think for ourselves.
i've been trying the WASD binds since your video came out and I am struggling to make it work right now but I can see already how these binds could help me improve
I like the keys camera movement, been using it since you uploaded the video. But I was a locked screen demon before so anything compared to that is an improvement anyways lol
you’re amazing man, started watching your arena videos and ended up here, ill definitely try this new config for lol, keep up with the content, cheers from Argentina!
I appreciate this kind of levelheaded video response, especially with the realist view of to even get these things noticed and talked about there has to be a level of sensationalism to succeed on YT. I'm by no means a good player (sitting in plat), but after using close to default controls since I started in season 3 I gave it a shot after your video and haven't really looked back yet. Camera control is a skill I've been building up actively for awhile and this scheme has actually been pretty optimal for me to train that skill more quickly. I play at a med-high DPI without alot of mouse space to work with and this has made a number of fights far less frantic - darting the mouse to make several small adjustments requiers significant accuracy and speed while still hiitting skillshots. I've been able to focus more on more precision in abilities with less reliance on my mouse. Granted, the initial learning period was rough. 10 years of muscle memeory takes time to break. But my situational awareness has increased considerably just from taking information in more easily. I'm hoping there's more dialogue to these sorts of fundamentals on playstyle. Not everyone is going to be optimal on the default scheme or this one. While I recognize that it isn't necessarily the best to take time away from learning other things important about the game to relearn your entire approach to play, for me I personally think it has been worth it in a fairly short span of time.
I have always really enjoyed watching your videos and this wasd keybind guide (as well as the guides after that) were no different. I found them very entertaining and I really like your sense of humor. I think Nemesis was definitely overreacting. Keep up the great work!
My sense of humor is almost completely absence and I find his pretty good (to my tastes). I think that the problem was what King mentioned at the beginning "he didn't listen to all I say" before answering. King is funny.
Way back in my childhood emulator days, i used to keybind movement keys to something like ASZX where S is up and X is down. this was for maximum compression since at the time, me and my sister and two cousins usually would play Bomberman on a single keyboard. Wild i know. This specific layout seems worth a try to everyone, since it seems like the best compromise from my perspective, allowing the QWER memory to stack on top of the new binds, instead of competing in a frustrating step-back experience. I and most players use S to meticulously move, like place ourselves at the edge of a bush, and A for auto range, but those are minuscule impact to the flow of a keyboard as an extension of yourself, and also a case by case usage.
I was originally a lock-screen player who only unlocked the screen very rarely. I had been trying to work myself up to sending it fully unlocked, but I never liked moving the camera with my mouse. When I saw your video, it gave me to motivation to try something new, and I've stuck with it! Though my brain reverts sometimes (it's really interesting how that happens) I've mostly gotten used to the WASD keybinds. They've absolutely helped me improve with camera control and to that, I thank you :) People shouldn't dismiss something just because it isn't what they do. If they want to argue against something, try and learn it first. Love your content!
Another thing for 4:00 argument is Nemesis knows pros don't always do the optimal thing. I don't watch him very often nowadays but I remember him calling pros lazy all the time not so long ago. He KNOWS pros won't try a new build or champion out and he is showing the same stubborn mindset here. I think your video is great and it might be the push for players like me to explore more options. League players tend to just follow whoever is "best" that's how we end up with same 10 champions in pro play every game until something so broken it can't be ignored pops up. I don't think most League players ever actively thought about options. I'm not into Counter Strike but i hear of people using inverted mouse or scroll wheel to move forward while in League it's always QWER.
It's crazy how other gaming communities would literally do anything to get the most optimal performance on their games but customizing a keybind is considered too much for a league player.
Coming from overwatch and valorant where fast flicks are extremely common, sens has little to nothing to do with speed, as long as you're used to your own dpi/sens combo, nothing is stopping a person that plays on 800 dpi from moving their mouse as fast as someone on 1600 or higher
it's all about whether or not you're good at it but the reason why i recommend a "lower" dpi in general is because people tend to play on insane ones like 5000+ in my experience. mileage may vary people just need to stop making up arguments to get a jab in
Just want to say that I saw that video not knowing much about you and absolutely loved it. I even tried the WASD key binds and it was pretty fun even though i eventually went back. You took this criticism as well as one possibly could. Nice work man earned yourself a sub
i take completely your side on this one. bringing up suggestions for change is absolutely fine. Also a person with a general level of awareness would take your previous video with a grain of salt and not as is. I really do dislike such debates these days and you often see it in those "drama" or "incident" videos from bigger creators, well since they are famous lul. I strongly advocate using the same approach as essays are written for debating: claim -> justification -> example Sadly people like Nemesis apparently dont. Taking statements without justifying them and then using his audience to dislike others. Mindblowing to me.
I haven't watched the original vid, but I had two main takeaways from this one. 1. In terms of offloading actions from the mouse hand to the keyboard hand, I would say that accurate mouse movement is orders of magnitude harder than pressing keys on a keyboard. One's control of the mouse's position has much higher variance than one's ability to press a button (which has a 1 to 1 output from key press to action on the screen). So there is definitely a good argument for focusing the mouse on only important things like aiming, instead of wasting time moving the camera. 2. in terms of "not having enough keys for other spells" that you get into at the end of the video, my question is even if camera control is done with the mouse, when is anyone actually shooting skillshots WHILE the camera is moving? pretty rarely! You basically always move camera first, and then press spells. So idk. Clearly it's possible to press all your spells and do camera control with the left hand (I mean just watch any starcraft handcam, or even just a nidhogg montage)
really well put for the first point, wish i thought of it myself. i couldnt quite put into words the sheer difference between hitting buttons vs mouse accuracy but i did mention how panning 4 directions with each button assigned to one is easier than mouse edge panning (back and forth movement). the 1:1 translation for key->movement is an example ill use in the future.
@@KingNidhogg NP sir. I'm also reminded of the fighting game community and their controller discussions. Especially in Melee, there was a big controversy on "box style" controllers (which replace the analog stick with buttons and generally spread everything out so it isn't just two thumbs pressing buttons, but all the fingers together) and their legality because of how much the buttons trivialize stick inputs that are traditionally very difficult on a gamecube controller.
The second point exposes so much delusion its hilarious. How can they say that wasd users are suboptimal because you can cast spells while moving the camera, when they have the same problem? Wow.
@@jubbjubb535 It should be mentioned that part of the reason for the controller controversy in melee is that keyboard-style movement buttons let you do inputs that are literally impossible on an analog joystick, such as holding two opposite directions at the same time. That same concern doesn't really apply to league camera movement.
i copied your wasd binds for a while because i remembered your unique key binds in a twitch rivals, and thought it was really good(i was new at the game, and having trouble moving out of Lock Screen). and u def improved my game, and honestly the wasd binds feel universal from game to game. i appreciate you showing people an different way to playing the game! u don’t deserve hate, keep grinding
Ive been sort of transitioning between game genres for a few years now, and I can say with certainty that a great mindset to have is to experiment with controls. I mainly switch between rhythm games and fighting games but even for league... EXPERIMENT!! Everyone is built different and the WASD controls looked really interesting! Extremely untapped potential in changing controls that so many people are afraid of. Seeing Nemesis' reaction legit made a lurker like me cope ngl.
I have been playing with WASD keybinds since I started playing league because I had no preconceived notions of what was normal. I hated having to move my mouse so much so i swapped it to keybinds that I was used to from other games. It's nice to see someone else doing the same thing because people call me crazy as soon as they see my keybinds.
I've been on a similar WASD control scheme since the day I started playing league (although it's a bit more weird with E on Q and R on E), and it is crazy the amount of close-mindedness people have. I often don't even get the chance to explain to people why I play on WASD, they just automatically assume it's terrible and don't even look into the possibility of it being a viable control scheme. I have a lot of success with it and I can't play at all on default controls anymore lol.
I've been using wasd keybinds since that video release and the game feels fresh and fun to relearn, I play some variety so champions that I've played for years are a bit harder to relearn in terms of muscle memory, but I've picked up a few new ones and I feel like I've been winning more games+being more thoughtful and enjoying the game more. It was definitely not easy but I see this as a good trade-off, the game is more fun and I feel like I'm playing better (I got no stats to back it up, I'm a casual)
nemesis' video is like a reaction video to some anime and not really thought out criticism (as usual), that's especially apparent in that "idk of any pro that uses that setup" fragment. As you said, Nidhogg, it's not an argument; it's also a very easy reference to our favorite game, tetris. "No one" from the tetris scene was using the rolling tech, everyone were hypertapping, until some madman broke a record. If faker (im not up to date with current top pro players lol, but i guess he's still the most popular) stated that he plays with WSAD lots of people would probably try that.
I think i remember Tobias Fate using a similar control scheme. While he might not be the best player, he still did get challenger some time ago on champs i would consider to be on the higher end of difficulty (gangplank, karthus)
i do respect those binds and the idea behind it. I would even try it if i had the chance. But i just play the same whey for the past 15 years so maybe not too useful for me to try
Dpi is pretty interesting. I remember seeing something about a CSGO pro who plays on insanely high dpi because his desk space before going pro was very small. But yeah binds are a very personalized thing. There are optimal ones but it’s a comfort thing first. I always check keybinds whenever I start a new game and change crouch to C because it’s become that innate for me.
Didn't watch any topic related vids but still want to share my experience: I did use this wasd set up back in 2012 but its not exactly the same as yours. The reason for me to do it is because i was a long time fps player and haven't touch any moba games so i want a familiar control scheme + i was having trouble with the camera, locking was too constrictive and flicking was too chaotic, so i "came up" with the wasd. I remember the control felt better but ability casting was worsen cause idk where to bind skills, and the default scheme was somewhat already wired in (this was after 1-3 month of playing). After some struggle with the wasd i decided its not worth it and thinking the default was just how moba are intended to be control, so i just do it to this day. Felt funny to think if i were to follow through with the setup 10y ago we probably could have the same setup lol.
Since your first WASD Keybinds Video I've actually witness 2 instance (Pekinwoof and Biofrost) of plays in the middle of the fight where the player had to basically guess because everything is happening outside the screen, but that player cant move the camera since they have to click and use abilities etc.
When I first saw your video I legit thought it was satire.... I now see the logic behind this set up. still, if you have high DPM, which is almost inarguably an advantage to have to be able to do reaction flashes in any direction, then also pushing the camera is pretty trivial. If you decide to have low DPM for wrist health/preference then this setup definitely makes sense.
I know this doesn't pertain much to the video, but I just saw your new AD Nid video (fantastic btw I love seeing AP champs played ad), but it got me wondering what your favourite item in the game is? (present day or removed) like either by functionality or just because it was enjoyable. Keep up the great content!
I'm trying WASD camera controls for almost 1 week and I still can't get used to it. Though I am relatively new to league, I play for just 1 year. Moreover, I've switched hands. And still it is so hard to get used to. Feels counter-intuitive for a player with FPS background. But I will give it 1 more week and probably make a video. I had a lot of weird and funny problems, especially in first 3 days.
As a fps player it feels a lot better but I've been playing league for a while, I also have a lot shorter fingers and different hand placement than nidhog so I've been using szxc and I feel a lot better on these controls, since I'm able to keep qwer and sums on the same keys and for the Fkey issue I just use shift 1-4
@@taiiko404i was comparing FPS controls to some RTS games In CS, for example, you move your character with WASD. And sometimes I expect my character in league to move when i press WASD. This issue disappears after first 2-3 games of the day, but it is annoying
Instead of wasd i use szxc for camera movement, wasd was not for me but camera movement is a hindrance for me, especially since i am playing on a lower sens than most. Szxc binds is a change that helped immensely. Locked screen can also cause a lot of inaccuracies especially sinco most of the champs i play are high movement, high apm champs
I started using it and I was genuinely hardstuck in emerald but after getting more used to it I actually got to diamond lol which is a peek for me so idk maybe just not for everyone but def helped my gameplay I have been playing since 2019 and have never made it past plat/emerald but honestly im wondering if i'll be able to even make it through diamond my gameplay feels so much better now @@BlackBurnBear
Honestly, your video made me give a try at new binds that work better for me, not only camera binds but other that can maybe improve the way i move my champ. I am not trying wasd because that would be too much for me, but i believe that there is something better that the default binds. I saw the main message of the video is that we should experiment with our binds and that there is something better than default, and not that wasd is the only correct version. Also, any oerson with a brain can understand that half the video is a joke, thing are oversimplified so they are fun, it is not a step by step guide of ehat to do
I don't use wasd, I am instead trying to use m3 to accelerate camera, I changed the f-keys to 1-2-3-4-5 though, as you suggested in the video. In order to do so, I changed the items to z-x-c-v-b-n. And some others keys to other places. I think it's better than default. The pain of changing sucks tbh, but I'm a min/maxer
Personally, I've enjoyed the binds but I've never really got to see how they felt at a full level. Roughly around the same time I switch to experiment with WASD (I'm all down for experimentation), I ended up injuring my right hand through playing a rhythm game for multiple hours a day. Think of it as a push to a certain rank. This significantly made what I can play in league at a all time low since I've mostly been resting and recovering, trying to heal the repetitive injury. The only character that doesn't hurt my hand that bad is Yummi (for obvious reasons). Since my right hand is the injured hand, right clicking and left clicking are quite painful after a short period of time using them. Yes, I can practice WASD through Yummi but my sample sizing feels so insignificant with this character compared to other higher APM characters that I have no idea if I like it or not. I think what I will most likely do is stick to them anyway even if I am forced to play Yummi and just practice left hand positioning, see if I can find a comfortable spot and go from their.
Mostly it seems to be destructive criticism without much explanations or supported opinions, glad it got you thinking in depth about the way you made your points in the WASD video though.
one counter argument could be that moving your camera with your mouse and targeting a target should be most of the time in the same direction, so it's not like if you have to do 180 degree between moving your camera on side with your mouse and target your abilities. (not that i'm completly ok with that argument, i think it have good and bad in it, but at least it's more reasonable than the argument " it's wrong "). In the end i like your approach on your first video, not that i'm agree or disagree with it, just that from a person like me who love to optimise everything that he do, having people thinking differently open some new ideas that will open research, thinking, debate, testing which lead to optimal setup, maybe not the first one but everything start from somewhere ! Keep it up
i completly agree with you id say its pretty champion dependant too for example i play riven so my keyboard hand needs more usage than my mouse hand but for a champ thats autoatack based moving the cam with wasd would be great
I'm going to be up front with you. Ever since I have changed my key binds to WASD, I have significantly reduced my league play time. Thinking about moving the camera and using different key binds in general completely demolished the dopamine hits I got from logging in. League went from an addiction to a chore. Make of that what you will.
@KingNidhogg oh just to keep things clear: I'm going to stick it out. I've seen some improvements with my camera movement, even though it feels like Im trudging. Just some growing pains that's all.
wasd key binds might be a good switch for most people, I've played guitar for 15 years though so keeping my fingers on qwer is important for me i have massive finger flexibility and stretching strength, i use my pinky much better than most i still have 800 dpi and i manage it because i'm so go at using my space bar to reset my camera in ways that reduce the amount i move my mouse.
Youve spent years building up a viewerbase that is different from Nemesis', and I am willing to bet that the kinds of people who watch your content are smart enough to know that everything you say is meant to be taken with a bit of scepticism. Especially since you have talked extensively about content creation in the past. Ffs, dont feel like you need to apologize for the ones that cant see your content for what it is. Youre an entertainer and game educator, and that you have been doing exceptionally well, especially as of late. I can feel a shitstorm coming, but hopefully thats just my pessimism. GL.
Man, I'm sorry this apparently turned into drama. I had no idea this video blew up but good on you dude! I enjoyed it quite a bit. As a follower of yours I enjoy a lot of your dryer educational videos as well as your more fast paced well edited videos that are also funny. This was obviously the latter if you watch much of your content. It's still good knowledge though. It made me think about the game in a different way and consider trying something new and seeing what I learn about the game in the process... And MAYBE find a new preferred way to play. Anyway, glad you had some success on the video, I loved it... But sorry you gotta deal with some big time pro/streamer fan drama bc he has no context for the video. ❤
It's simple: either you're a person who enjoys using the mouse or keyboard to move the camera, and it's gonna help to use WASD if: - You are not good at using the mouse to move the camera. - You have the skill to learn new keyboard configurations, or you're a person who can handle that process. - You want to use champions that require a lot of information on the screen, have crazy mobility, or long-range skill shots. In my personal case, I love this config. As a person who learned how to use Colemak and has tried to create my own custom layout multiple times, I think this one is very well made. If I have to use the mouse to move the camera, I'd learn it if one day I want to play skill shot champs like Brand, but right now, as I'm trying to get a better job, I don't want to procrastinate by learning this layout because it seems very exciting and fun. But as a main Briar (D4, neither a good nor bad player) right now, it's not necessary in my case, especially for that kind of melee low-range OTP but ING it can improve my game by a lot cuz screen info and TAB it's underrated in all non Apex tier ELOs. Still, it's an amazing layout that I'm gonna use if I want to tryhard again in the game, probably next season.
Hey, I haven't watched your original video on this topic, but I admire the way to "innovate" some stuff that league players rarely think about. However I have to agree with nemesis on this for several reasons why it wouldn't work for me and probably reasonably large amount of pc players. In the end i also included my own solution to the camera control problem and would like to hear what you think about it 1. A lot of people have their wrist rested on the keyboard/it's wrist rest 1.1. Having to switch between wasd and 1234 format is too much movement (fingers and wrist have to adjust) 2. Pressing keys above the keys that they usually rest on feels easier. (Pressing 1234 with fingers on qwer is easier than pressing asdf) (on that note i got used to a-clicking with pinky and i use my thumb for d and f) -> there's only f keys above numbers so one row is missing 3. Using mouse hand to lessen the burden on keyboard hand is very valuable, but I agree that the vice versa principle is just as important. However the mouse hand is used to quick flicky movements which are the same that you need to control the camera. For the vice versa most people use space bar to focus camera on themselves quickly. 4. Additionally to point 3, I don't think having 4 keys for "one" (camera movement) input is reasonable, especially when you have to adjust a otherwise static hand posture for it (that's why i also dont like using f-keys, sorry that i brought them up in an example earlier) However this has brought me a new idea for a hotkey (that maybe exists? idk) for you to try out or think about. I'll call it "Hotkey" for sake of simplicity "Hotkey" would be toggle/hold down like target champs only. While "Hotkey" is held down the cursor position is locked in place. The mouse movement moves the camera instead. Why this? There's 3 ways to reposition camera. 1. Mouse movement: Long movement, but can be accurate. 2. space bar: short movement, only centers on yourself, not accurate 3. wasd method: short movement, accurate, hard to get used to and might cause misclicks (imo) The "hotkey" method tries to combine minimal movement on mouse and keyboard hand to quickly adjust the camera precisely
Thoughts on the dpi thing as someone who plays osu! (a game where cursor precision is half the game) with mouse to a decently high level. DPI is literally all preference, it doesn't matter what you use so long as it isn't the stupidest thing ever. I can literally double my dpi (800 -> 1600 @ 1080p) and adjust in a couple minutes. Anyone trying to argue that your dpi is bad is probably wrong unless you're using something truly stupid, cover your screen in more than an inch but less than your entire desk and you're solid.
I appreciate you pushing this newish paradigm. However I would push further in saying that keyboard controls are in fact optimal (when comfortable). With edge-pan, while moving the camera you cannot aim abilities (therefore also not cast them except some specific ones), move or target champions. You also have to take the time to move to edge, keep it there and move back. This may at worst be 2x your screen. In essence there is bound to be some downtime. With keyboard, while moving the camera you can move, aim abilities (though may be hard), cast abilities that are not on the fingers you use to move the camera (easier with DASF instead of WASD) and the instant the camera control stops you can have your mouse in the right place without having to reposition. While these in practice are not massive differences, with optimal play the other is clearly superior. (I would also argue that keyboard might be easier to get proficient at but that's beside the point)
I play with 3x mouse accel from around 650dpi-2000dpi with a pretty shallow curve. Its enough where i can flick to the end of the screen while also having percise movement when hitting skillshots I also started playing league on a razer taurus since i basically started. I cant play on keyboard anymore. My tab key is my auto attack key, my items are my asdf keys, my stop key is above q, and my flash and ignite are on my thumb by ping and center camera When i upgrade to a taurus 2.0, ill try binding camera to the thumb buttons
Immediately when I started playing League, I moved my camera controls to WASD. Simply felt natural. W ability is on F, Flash is on X, smite on G. I've tried using my mouse for the camera (everyone uses it that way so it should be optimal, right?) but it just doesn't work for me.
There are about a thousand people in every region that would profit from more efficiency. The rest would rise the ranks just as quick but easier with turning brain on and not being mad after botlane doesn’t get 6cs first wave. On a more important note: eat regional vegetables, drink plenty of water and limit salt and meat consumption. Is healthy
I went down to 200 dpi, to get used to it in less time, I use it for everything. Yes I feel more precision. It's just getting used to it and that's it. I already feel like I haven't changed the DPI, it seems normal to me. But I still have to practice camera control. 👍👍
Hey nid, just wanted you to know while Im not good at using WASD tooce camera but I have been using the number keys instead of qwerty since you posted your first vid on it
solid video, talking about what works for some and not others. i've been playing league for years with NO sound. AT ALL. i'm hardstuck plat/emerald, but it is what it is lol
Anyone has other weird settings ? For me, I used WASD for camera movement, 1 - 6 for skills and spells, T for ward, R for recall, Z -N for items, Q for AA, F for stop, and E for mastery Emote.
I need to rebind stuff. The only stuff I have different is that my wards are on x, and that I put one of the items on z. (Both for wards 😂). I play support, so I usually have an usable item or two besides the wards, and I like to be able to access wards with my thumb. My hands are kinda little and I don't want to have them all close to the qwer area so my index has to focus on the activable item in team fight and maybe a panic ward on the jungle and yada yada :( that's how feels nice to me because I have to press those things so much and I already have my hand pretty close to the space bar so why not right?
Not as weird, but I do use x for attack move, mouse side button for warding, tilde for scoreboard, tab for target champs only and alt+a/s/d for items on the bottom row.
Ive always respected you for your own innovation on the controls for league Nidhogg and i think that should be how it is. Good players recognising good players and being intrigued rather than discouraged from methods in which they can play at that level
After watching your vid, I bought a Razer Tartarus and binded camera movements to its thumbpad. Now the camera is all up to my left thumb, feels weird for now but probably needs a lot of practice.
I used to do this but I found it is a bit imprecise and is why if you look up the hitbox controller like someone mentioned in a comment above it was a innovation in fighting game controllers that actually removed the stick from fighting game controllers and allowed for four directional buttons to be used instead
@@KingNidhogg Which wasn't the point of the original video. You even admitted that the disingenuous framing was for click bait, that was the main issue. The original video is as serious as teaching silver players mid game macro, they won't improve. But more views > good advice I guess
Me personally I got better with this layout but I adapted it. I play with a Razer Tartarus and I use its joystick to move the camera. Same concept, I don't move the camera with my mouse and It's just so smoother for me
I love the video and your ability to self-analyze without frustration, it's a key feature in a good league of legends player. That being said, the low dpi would kill me personally. IMO keep your dpi low enough to where its not flying around and you can't control it, but high enough to where its not a complete burden to try and move it around. I'm a masters peak player for reference so nidhogg is a better player, regardless of elo I believe you should play to what feels comfortable to you personally, no matter what that is.
My takes from the first portion of the video as a bad league player (gold/plat) but competitor at a high level in other titles. Sorry for the essay. 1: I know sens is preference but I firmly believe too high is almost always bad. From coaching in Valorant and Overwatch I know people are very stingy with lowering their sens even when I can see them jittering or I can see they purely use their fingers or wrist to aim. use your wrist, and arm, for the best accuracy. ask any member of Voltaic and they will agree. fingers are inconsistent but may feel comfortable and purely using your wrist or purely using your aim is inefficient and u aren't maximizing potential. Your take on pro players using high dpi because they're comfortable with it is spot on in my opinion. Even players in shooters like woxic use high sens due to thousands upon thousands of hours on it. This doesn't necessarily make it good even if a pro uses it and in league it may seem like less of a hinderance. League to me, is all about consistency. Lower = more consistent. Too low = your arm might get tired. 2: I tried the WASD binds and hated it. Do I think its bad? No, I can very easily understand the reasoning, I just: A) Didn't use it long enough B) The other keybinds didn't feel intuitive for league *IN MY OPINION* this relates back to the personal preference argument; it may not be for everyone. C) I played Fortnite very competitively and have around 6-7k hours. When more optimal keybinds were discovered, I was worse on them and after about a couple weeks, I switched back to what I was used to. This definitely will cause many pros to not use WASD binds similarly to me not using optimal Fortnite binds. But lets all remember, humans are stupid. Disney only realized that their mascots should have 5 finger gloves around 1970. You would think it's pretty obvious people need to use 5 fingers to do things but it took them around 20 years to figure it out. This may not be the best example it was just off the top of my head but it brings up the point that if things aren't thought about or tested, it may take a long time for it to ever be considered no matter how basic. WASD keybinds may become standard in 20 years if league is still running. Pros are still learning, nobody knows everything. Pros even still disagree on many major game mechanics or strategies. If you're somebody who's into science, u know that everything in science is just a theory because it could change or be different in a billion years, we just don't know everything. There are ~8 billion perspectives in the world and ~180 million perspectives on league, but only one true reality. What are the chances that the perspective of one person, or the select few pros, are that true reality? very unlikely. This already feels too long for most to read so I'll end it here. Nidhogg's argument is very sound. Important to remember humans are opinionated and biased. I may be biased to support Nidhogg, that may be true. Nemesis may be biased to what he knows and that's fair as well. But his approach to just calling it terrible at face value is detrimental. This post may not be coherent, i wrote it up quick in between matches at a Valorant LAN tournament lol I have nothing else to do and I haven't even finished the video but yeah those are my initial thoughts.
You have a fundamental misunderstanding of why pro FPS players use low sensitivity. The reason is NOT consistency, it’s accuracy. FPS players need to flick exactly onto somebody’s head in the space of a few pixels, any deviation and they miss the shot, in other words you need precision. In league you have a lot bigger margin of error for ability usage, in addition for ADCs you need to constantly click between 2 points to kite, something fps players don’t do except in rare cases like flicking between 2 possible angles. Also if you really play at a VALORANT LAN please go back to competitive you are not ready if you think low sens is for consistency.
@@ehqwk u may think im wrong but this is my career. it may sound cringe to others but u don't understand the amount of research i have put into esports. I have researched strategies, stats, talked to credible people, and vod reviewed pros, probably more than I have even played the games themselves. after 10 years of playing fps games (nearly 6k hours in fortnite, 2k hours in cs, 3k in paladins, 1.5k in overwatch, 1k in valorant not counting scrims, 600 in aim lab) u would assume i would know more than some random youtube commenter. this is a league video. im shit at league i'll admit that and i dont know much about it. but now you're bringing up fps? and bringing up accuracy and precision to somebody who was a biochemistry major for 2 years is funny. I dropped out of that degree for personal reasons and switched to sports management (for my coaching career) but i at least know the basics of scientific terminology. of course u wouldnt know that but i would hope people do research before starting an argument
what I've been doing since I started playing league is enabling middle mouse to drag camera and then rebinding one of my mouse keys to be middle mouse click. I think WASD while its a cool idea is just a worse version of middle click to drag camera even after giving it a try. also moving your mouse over to the edge of the screen is just as bad because it can potentially move your cursor away from what you need to be clicking on. obviously moving your mouse to the edge can be helped by having higher sensitivity/dpi but after playing middle click camera for so long it just seems pointless.
Do you use target only champ, attack movement, Stop moving or others binds? your keybinds seems to work fine for your kind of gameplay but you only talk about camera, item and spells. there's a lot of others things. Also i think you can be accurate with any kind of DPI, imo i can't play if i have to move my mouse across my whole desk and lift it to continue.
There's another comment here that identifies that it's more challenging to have accurate mouse clicks than keystrokes, which I agree is a valid reason to offload camera control from your right to left hand. But in general, the game doesn't have many scenarios where you need to be actively adjusting your camera to the extent that it affects concurrent champion targeting. The standard POV zoom in League spans, we'll say 2000 units left to right, and you can see ~1000 units above and to the sides (below less so). When you're fighting someone, despite how much mobility's in the game now, the vision you get in your POV is absolutely enough to just unlock your camera and leave it stationary. Champions don't engage each other beyond this 1000 range unless it's like Xerath and Nidalee exchanging Qs. Most fights, especially ones where kills are on the table, happen in closer proximity -- say the standard 550 auto range or less. In here, again your camera doesn't need to be doing anything, allowing you to remove the 2nd source of movement affecting mouse accuracy altogether (the 1st being the thing you're actually trying to click on). If you need to pan your camera, you'll only encounter concurrent camera + mousing at a close range when panning straight down. I'm general, I think manning the camera + your mouse concurrently always reduces accuracy, regardless of if it's WASD or not. Your camera should centre roughly on you at the start of fights, then move slightly as the fight goes in a given direction. This can be efficiently done by double-tapping spacebar, resetting the camera on you (locking) and becoming stationary in a new place (2nd click unlocks).
me personally, i like your binds better than default. controlling camera with mouse feels clunky and locked screen gives me motion sickness. i took your binds from a stream of yours a little over a year and a half ago, so i was surprised when i saw a video going in depth about them WASD, or pushing the camera with your mouse, or lockscreen, or whatever you play with, it always comes down to a skill issue. a large majority of people play locked cam, a lot of people play pushing the camera with their mouse, and some people play with unconventional keybinds, but the thing these all have in common is that not everyone who falls into these categories is challanger/pro. you play wasd nidhog and are multi season challanger which literally proves that these binds have potentional. its also really funny reading his stream chat through this video, because like nemasis theyre just saying insults and being bitter lol (didnt know you peaked emerald :/)
One thing I think is worth noting is that League of Legends is a game that relies a lot more on good macro compared to micro. If a league player wants to improve, they can spend hours mastering every single interaction on their one trick and practice camera control and cursor placement, but learning good positioning, how to play the map, and mastering the basics are a more efficient way to improve.
I somewhat adopted your wasd keybinds a long time ago, but i use szxc to go up left down right, i didn't want to sacrifice my muscle memory built on qwer so i just added on top of it. I can say it definitely felt better to me moving my camera with my keyboard instead of mouse. It is 100% preference but give it a try.
I've been using your keybinds for a few weeks now. I was fail flashing (pressing e instead of 3) a lot, and occasionally press 4 instead of r (I think 4 was my old ward button and r is my new ward button, but r was my old ult and 4 is my new ult so yeah). I also had to lower my mouse pan speed to break the habit because I was forgetting to use WASD for camera. I have been getting used to it a lot more, and my only problem now is that sometimes my camera will spaz out especially mid fight, I think it might have something to do with my inputs bugging out. I have gotten a second monitor recently and I suspect it has something to do with this, if you know anything about this it would be helpful! Otherwise I have been enjoying the set-up!
As an addendum, I rebinded the function keys to view teammates from f1-f4 to A,S,D,F with a shift modifier. It's a lot more accessible, and I added shift+space to center back on myself with regular space being for attack move.
1 on 1 conversation: ua-cam.com/video/7MgBX5QJlUM/v-deo.html&ab_channel=KingNidhogg
Original Video: ua-cam.com/video/GGbakP-ADY0/v-deo.htmlsi=plxL9rGWYizHlxch
Thanks for watching, i'm live here playing with WASD Binds lmao: www.twitch.tv/king_nidhogg
A high elo player doing "Climbing to masters but the keybinds are randomized each game" would get my click so fucking fast that'd be hilarious.
^
How randomized? 😂 To the point you could get the "q" on z and the "r" on the "enter" and blabla?
@@TheRalouch , yeah it's not a bad idea. 🤔
foot pedal
@@KingNidhogg you started off the video so patient and respectful, and towards the end I could tell you were losing your patience with how stubborn this guy is. I think he just wants to create controversial content to get views off of it lol
In fighting games, when the Hitbox came out, it is a controller that has 4 buttons for directions instead the stick. It was out fot years and wasnt very popular. The the GOAT Diago picked it up because he realised it was optimal for him. Then suddenly everyone started picking it up.
this is the first thing that came to my mind as well, I'm a hitbox player and it takes some players months to get used it yet it is objectively optimal for certain movements
Hitbox is the controller I use for fighting games. Nobody thought it was anything special when it first came out but now it is considered the most optimal control setup, even being banned at tournaments a few times. If you’ve already been playing for a while, just stick with whatever controller you are used to. But if you are a new player, the Hitbox is probably worth learning. I think the same is true for the WASD setup in league.
Maybe you mean Daigo? Daigo Umehara?
@@dimaratosgeorgiadis2672 correct
Diago
I honestly respect you for doing this video in a calm manner, because I can entirely imagine there'd be a certain anger infused "wtf?" behind your calmness and rightfully so.. he didn't address anything!! that's a perfect example of someone going into an argument in bad faith, he just decided to disagree before he starts watching the video...
truest comment
I disagree with Nemesis on his key take. League AT THE MOMENT is a shooter game, it is popular because it is similar to Counter-Strike 1.5 mode 5v5. While valorant is more of a kind done in the feel of Quake3, which explains why it is so unpopular, because we are in transition like in good old times, from Arcade to Strategical.
@@LaplacianDalembertian Its not
@@ClickHere4Naruto that just means you do not shoot very well, low elo is ofc not a game at all
@@LaplacianDalembertian Masters.
I love how the comments on the nemesis video is just mixed between shit-talking his chat and "imagine playing x champion with WASD binds xdd"
basically just league players not caring too much and taking the piss out. it's all good as long as they dont pretend their comments are genuinely worthwhile lmao
@@KingNidhogg the funniest comment is at 10:17 "play like that and good luck reaching silver" and you are literally challenger lol
@@Tiagocf2yes a ton of low elo noobs talking shit as if my 18th acc isn’t higher than their main
Nemesis gives off "old man yells at cloud" energy lmao
People do love what they're used to
yeah and the default is what they are used but how old are those binds you know? Of course the game is a lot less about mechanics than game sense as the game sense leads to mechanics very heavily.
nemesis's response + these comments are so annoying and definitely speak to the mindset of the league community. why are people this emotional about someone trying to innovate the game and share their findings and potentially help others? I also dont understand why Nemesis seemed so upset by this without actually being able to actually give good reasoning or arguments to WHY its bad to the point that u had to steelman his arguments. this shit makes me sigh bro lmao great video thanks for having a real discussion on youtube even if a bunch of other people cant
@@BlackBurnBear Ithink you are still missing the point. Correct me if I'm wrong, but King Nidhogg in your example would be suggesting the more rounded wheel (that could be potentially more optimal), but that does not interfere with your set of round wheels (which you can be absolutely satisfied with). I think we are all wondering where this hatred/dislike came from. Nowhere does he say this is the only way to play... so any viewer can just go on with their day and not change how they play League of Legends.
My analogy would be that: You can cook a dish by following a recipe. One can tweak a recipe through differing cooking techniques, as well as differing ingredients and their portions used. King Nidhogg is simply trying to teach us how to cook in this cooking video. I hope I speak for the majority when I say when I see a cooking/recipe video, if I felt like it was not for me, I would usually just click on another video of a similar topic and go on with my day. The only time I would theoretically even consider downvoting a video is probably if I tried following the recipe, but the end product came out inedible. The point I am trying to make is why downvote and tell others to downvote the cooking video if one did not even try the recipe for oneself in the first place? Now I'm just wondering if I am in the minority, and actually the majority of those who watch cooking videos downvote every video they come across that does not 100% satisfy their own criteria of what is good or not.
Hope you're chill and have a nice day.
@@BlackBurnBear I dont care if you use ur original or ur 2000 years aphellios wheel. why do u care what wheel someones using if u already have one that works? Its one thing to not agree with using wasd its another to just shit on the argument without giving a proper reason. Hope u understood my analogy xoxo
When you're used to people accepting your opinion as big facts because you're pro player, you can just shit on other opinions without giving any proper arguments. Nothing to it but to do it.
@@BlackBurnBearHow is that so complex that it is considered reinventing the wheel? Mf he's talking about a keybind not switching to a controller.
It doesn't have anything to do with innovation. The initial video is just failing to show any upside to wasd. No examples and nothing really convinces. If you make a video with a new idea, of course you get laughed it when you don't make any real arguments for it
I really respect how you responded so politely and reasonably to a guy just shouting at you and not even listening to the video
This was such a level-headed response, a complete contrast to Nemisis and his emotionally charged illogical reaction. Class act.
Man I swear I was hyped at first to see Nemesis reaction to your video (that I found interesting even if I won't use it myself). But the bitterness made me really uncomfortable because I watch a lot of your content and I know you're not BS. Felt pretty bad watching it. Your PR response as you called it was on point as expected and I appreciate your little advices at the end. Take care man you're the hidden goat. Cheers from France
appreciate it from Canada brother, thank you
@@KingNidhoggthis explains everything. No wonder you’re so mature about all the garbage the league community has to offer
nemesis malding for no reason, literally the only issue I have found is the inability to move the camera while using an ability that requires holding down a key (vlad E, xerath Q etc). other than that, being able to lower dpi and focus on mouse movements and clicks that are actually important has been a huge plus for me.
With Vlad's E you just lock your camera in most cases though
Hmm no I never did that in the years I played him, always unlocked cam. My center camera button is on G as well so cant really hold it either (using space for attack move)@@inLogiex
I switch e to normal cast on vlad so I don’t have to hold it down, instead just press e twice
@@TehMadHatt that’s a really good tip actually thanks
I had this issue with eve
His video feels like that "quit having fun!" meme, guy is just angry that you're trying something different and finding success while doing it.
Keep it up, your videos are actually helping people get better at the game.
YES.
You are entirely missing the point. The "fun" was just a reference to a meme. The way Nidhogg helps people get better at the game is by showing alternative ways to play and therefore opening up the conversation towards or individual's mindsets regarding how to play. Also, his name is spelt Nidhogg, it's right there on your screen.@@RMadaraPlay
@@RMadaraPlay you may have misread the comment
@@RMadaraPlay do you think people join league and are just naturally challenger? you act like this guy was born a challenger and now he's just spewing misinformation. truly sit and think about what you are doing with your left hand when you are playing. if you don't use the WASD camera control, i guarantee that you are not using your left hand at all times. in contrast, you DEFINITELY are using your right hand at all times unless you just don't attack move and stand still auto-attacking like an AI. for you to claim that there's too much load on your left hand when you don't mention the right-hand whatsoever is a horrible bad faith argument. admittedly, I'm not the highest apm player nor am i the most skilled, but i am emerald and have been that mmr for the last 3 years while playing like 10-100 ranked games a season. That's not great at all, but that does statistically put me above ~85% of players. and even with that, i strain my right hand way too much, especially in the games when I play adc where positioning matters the most. so for you to come and say "this is just wrong", i just can't agree with that. i can agree if you said "hey this playstyle just isn't for me", but typing this biased comment is not the way to go. And before you say im biased myself...
Sincerely,
a non-WASD user (who does feel the right-hand/wrist strain)
So are you saying the original video is meant as a joke or what
Nemesis is way too emotional here
I watched the first video, I got your humour, I was able to separate it from the actual (good) advice you gave. I really appreciated that you even stated in the video that you are hamming it up, and that at the end of the day we want to do what works for us. I really want to try your method, but I know it probably isn't something I need to worry about. Maybe one day I will, but for now the rest of the game is overwhelming enough, and I play so little (comparatively to others), I'm happy with where I'm at in my learning journey. I would say I'm a sensitive person, and that a lot of stuff people say and do in League upsets me, with that said: you don't upset me, and I value your videos highly. Keep it up, I hope you're having a good time doing whatever is you're up to. Take care! :)
Also, there's an idiom: don't knock it till you try it, but someone who is going to prejudge, isn't going to be able to objectively try it. If you really want to disprove this video, you have to commit to trying to learn it, to see what it's like. Saying something like what you're suggesting is bad without having any experience with it, is foolish.
I understand you. 💞
I agree with the end part. When i first watched the nemesis vid he would just say "so wrong just wrong" without explaining anything or engaging with the content. These are the worst people to talk to
The problem Nemesis has with the video is that it's all misinformation all clickbait in the framing of the video. The guy who made this even admits that in this video, paraphrasing "I did this for views". The original video is framed as "short cuts to improve at the game" when it is only going to make players worse, this is the same problem skill capped videos have. Trying to teach mid game macro to a silver player is only going to make them more frustrated, more confused, more toxic and probably worse, why? Because mid game macro is never the reason a silver player is in silver. Nemesis want to insure people understand the message of the video is bullshit, because it is, HE EVEN ADMITS THIS IN THIS RESPONS VIDEO.
This is honestly a complete misread on what Nemesis point is.
The single biggest problem with the original video is that it's targeted at new players as a way to improve.
@@notieming dude, if you see the video and you can't hear his tone of voice and understand that he is making a giant joke while presenting some tips that you can apply to your gameplay. Is not misinformation if you can think for yourself a tiny bit. You can clearly see that he is oversimplifying for the sake of the video and entertainment. But also, if you cab think by yourself, you can understand ehat he doesn't say directly.
@@OsnofAhcor wtf are you on about? It's not obvious that the video is a joke, it's presented as educational which is why I have a problem with it. He ends the video by saying "I hope you go and try these things, this is the best coaching advice I can give anyone. You have terrible camera control, I can almost guarantee it. The moment you get that down, you're going to be a way better player. And lower your DPI".
This is literally misinformation, you won't get better camera movement by switching to these binds, and you will not become a better player by lowering your DPI.
@@notieming you realy can't read the things that are between the thing there are not between.. I encourage you to think more. Just because A is not B doesn't mean that A is also not C. Sometimes A not being B menas that A is C, but other times A not being B means that A is also not C. Don't even get me started with D. Is a lot dude. We just have to think for ourselves.
came here to say thanks for enlightening me its been a few weeks since i switched to wasd binds and im glad i did
i've been trying the WASD binds since your video came out and I am struggling to make it work right now but I can see already how these binds could help me improve
I like the keys camera movement, been using it since you uploaded the video. But I was a locked screen demon before so anything compared to that is an improvement anyways lol
you’re amazing man, started watching your arena videos and ended up here, ill definitely try this new config for lol, keep up with the content, cheers from Argentina!
I love your reasoning. The way you speak is so compelling to me.
I appreciate this kind of levelheaded video response, especially with the realist view of to even get these things noticed and talked about there has to be a level of sensationalism to succeed on YT.
I'm by no means a good player (sitting in plat), but after using close to default controls since I started in season 3 I gave it a shot after your video and haven't really looked back yet. Camera control is a skill I've been building up actively for awhile and this scheme has actually been pretty optimal for me to train that skill more quickly. I play at a med-high DPI without alot of mouse space to work with and this has made a number of fights far less frantic - darting the mouse to make several small adjustments requiers significant accuracy and speed while still hiitting skillshots. I've been able to focus more on more precision in abilities with less reliance on my mouse. Granted, the initial learning period was rough. 10 years of muscle memeory takes time to break. But my situational awareness has increased considerably just from taking information in more easily.
I'm hoping there's more dialogue to these sorts of fundamentals on playstyle. Not everyone is going to be optimal on the default scheme or this one. While I recognize that it isn't necessarily the best to take time away from learning other things important about the game to relearn your entire approach to play, for me I personally think it has been worth it in a fairly short span of time.
I have always really enjoyed watching your videos and this wasd keybind guide (as well as the guides after that) were no different. I found them very entertaining and I really like your sense of humor. I think Nemesis was definitely overreacting. Keep up the great work!
My sense of humor is almost completely absence and I find his pretty good (to my tastes).
I think that the problem was what King mentioned at the beginning "he didn't listen to all I say" before answering.
King is funny.
i thought the original video was very interesting and innovative. Although it’s not a key-bind I myself would try and learn, it was a great watch.
Way back in my childhood emulator days, i used to keybind movement keys to something like ASZX where S is up and X is down. this was for maximum compression since at the time, me and my sister and two cousins usually would play Bomberman on a single keyboard. Wild i know.
This specific layout seems worth a try to everyone, since it seems like the best compromise from my perspective, allowing the QWER memory to stack on top of the new binds, instead of competing in a frustrating step-back experience.
I and most players use S to meticulously move, like place ourselves at the edge of a bush, and A for auto range, but those are minuscule impact to the flow of a keyboard as an extension of yourself, and also a case by case usage.
I was originally a lock-screen player who only unlocked the screen very rarely. I had been trying to work myself up to sending it fully unlocked, but I never liked moving the camera with my mouse. When I saw your video, it gave me to motivation to try something new, and I've stuck with it! Though my brain reverts sometimes (it's really interesting how that happens) I've mostly gotten used to the WASD keybinds. They've absolutely helped me improve with camera control and to that, I thank you :)
People shouldn't dismiss something just because it isn't what they do. If they want to argue against something, try and learn it first.
Love your content!
awesome
Another thing for 4:00 argument is Nemesis knows pros don't always do the optimal thing. I don't watch him very often nowadays but I remember him calling pros lazy all the time not so long ago. He KNOWS pros won't try a new build or champion out and he is showing the same stubborn mindset here.
I think your video is great and it might be the push for players like me to explore more options. League players tend to just follow whoever is "best" that's how we end up with same 10 champions in pro play every game until something so broken it can't be ignored pops up. I don't think most League players ever actively thought about options. I'm not into Counter Strike but i hear of people using inverted mouse or scroll wheel to move forward while in League it's always QWER.
It's crazy how other gaming communities would literally do anything to get the most optimal performance on their games but customizing a keybind is considered too much for a league player.
I dont come often on the channel, but when I come, I learn something everytime. good work.
Coming from overwatch and valorant where fast flicks are extremely common, sens has little to nothing to do with speed, as long as you're used to your own dpi/sens combo, nothing is stopping a person that plays on 800 dpi from moving their mouse as fast as someone on 1600 or higher
it's all about whether or not you're good at it but the reason why i recommend a "lower" dpi in general is because people tend to play on insane ones like 5000+ in my experience. mileage may vary people just need to stop making up arguments to get a jab in
Just want to say that I saw that video not knowing much about you and absolutely loved it. I even tried the WASD key binds and it was pretty fun even though i eventually went back. You took this criticism as well as one possibly could. Nice work man earned yourself a sub
i take completely your side on this one. bringing up suggestions for change is absolutely fine.
Also a person with a general level of awareness would take your previous video with a grain of salt and not as is. I really do dislike such debates these days and you often see it in those "drama" or "incident" videos from bigger creators, well since they are famous lul.
I strongly advocate using the same approach as essays are written for debating: claim -> justification -> example
Sadly people like Nemesis apparently dont. Taking statements without justifying them and then using his audience to dislike others. Mindblowing to me.
cant wait for responding to nemesis's reaction to responding to nemesis's reaction to wasd keybinds video
I haven't watched the original vid, but I had two main takeaways from this one.
1. In terms of offloading actions from the mouse hand to the keyboard hand, I would say that accurate mouse movement is orders of magnitude harder than pressing keys on a keyboard. One's control of the mouse's position has much higher variance than one's ability to press a button (which has a 1 to 1 output from key press to action on the screen). So there is definitely a good argument for focusing the mouse on only important things like aiming, instead of wasting time moving the camera.
2. in terms of "not having enough keys for other spells" that you get into at the end of the video, my question is even if camera control is done with the mouse, when is anyone actually shooting skillshots WHILE the camera is moving? pretty rarely! You basically always move camera first, and then press spells. So idk. Clearly it's possible to press all your spells and do camera control with the left hand (I mean just watch any starcraft handcam, or even just a nidhogg montage)
really well put for the first point, wish i thought of it myself. i couldnt quite put into words the sheer difference between hitting buttons vs mouse accuracy but i did mention how panning 4 directions with each button assigned to one is easier than mouse edge panning (back and forth movement). the 1:1 translation for key->movement is an example ill use in the future.
@@KingNidhogg NP sir. I'm also reminded of the fighting game community and their controller discussions. Especially in Melee, there was a big controversy on "box style" controllers (which replace the analog stick with buttons and generally spread everything out so it isn't just two thumbs pressing buttons, but all the fingers together) and their legality because of how much the buttons trivialize stick inputs that are traditionally very difficult on a gamecube controller.
The second point exposes so much delusion its hilarious. How can they say that wasd users are suboptimal because you can cast spells while moving the camera, when they have the same problem? Wow.
@@jubbjubb535 It should be mentioned that part of the reason for the controller controversy in melee is that keyboard-style movement buttons let you do inputs that are literally impossible on an analog joystick, such as holding two opposite directions at the same time. That same concern doesn't really apply to league camera movement.
i copied your wasd binds for a while because i remembered your unique key binds in a twitch rivals, and thought it was really good(i was new at the game, and having trouble moving out of Lock Screen). and u def improved my game, and honestly the wasd binds feel universal from game to game. i appreciate you showing people an different way to playing the game! u don’t deserve hate, keep grinding
Ive been sort of transitioning between game genres for a few years now, and I can say with certainty that a great mindset to have is to experiment with controls. I mainly switch between rhythm games and fighting games but even for league... EXPERIMENT!! Everyone is built different and the WASD controls looked really interesting! Extremely untapped potential in changing controls that so many people are afraid of. Seeing Nemesis' reaction legit made a lurker like me cope ngl.
I have been playing with WASD keybinds since I started playing league because I had no preconceived notions of what was normal. I hated having to move my mouse so much so i swapped it to keybinds that I was used to from other games. It's nice to see someone else doing the same thing because people call me crazy as soon as they see my keybinds.
I've been on a similar WASD control scheme since the day I started playing league (although it's a bit more weird with E on Q and R on E), and it is crazy the amount of close-mindedness people have. I often don't even get the chance to explain to people why I play on WASD, they just automatically assume it's terrible and don't even look into the possibility of it being a viable control scheme. I have a lot of success with it and I can't play at all on default controls anymore lol.
I've been using wasd keybinds since that video release and the game feels fresh and fun to relearn, I play some variety so champions that I've played for years are a bit harder to relearn in terms of muscle memory, but I've picked up a few new ones and I feel like I've been winning more games+being more thoughtful and enjoying the game more. It was definitely not easy but I see this as a good trade-off, the game is more fun and I feel like I'm playing better (I got no stats to back it up, I'm a casual)
great, honest video, addressed everything, good stuff.
nemesis' video is like a reaction video to some anime and not really thought out criticism (as usual), that's especially apparent in that "idk of any pro that uses that setup" fragment. As you said, Nidhogg, it's not an argument; it's also a very easy reference to our favorite game, tetris. "No one" from the tetris scene was using the rolling tech, everyone were hypertapping, until some madman broke a record. If faker (im not up to date with current top pro players lol, but i guess he's still the most popular) stated that he plays with WSAD lots of people would probably try that.
You are my fav league youtuber! Keep doing good work! You rock!
I think i remember Tobias Fate using a similar control scheme. While he might not be the best player, he still did get challenger some time ago on champs i would consider to be on the higher end of difficulty (gangplank, karthus)
i do respect those binds and the idea behind it. I would even try it if i had the chance. But i just play the same whey for the past 15 years so maybe not too useful for me to try
Dpi is pretty interesting. I remember seeing something about a CSGO pro who plays on insanely high dpi because his desk space before going pro was very small. But yeah binds are a very personalized thing. There are optimal ones but it’s a comfort thing first. I always check keybinds whenever I start a new game and change crouch to C because it’s become that innate for me.
Didn't watch any topic related vids but still want to share my experience:
I did use this wasd set up back in 2012 but its not exactly the same as yours.
The reason for me to do it is because i was a long time fps player and haven't touch any moba games so i want a familiar control scheme + i was having trouble with the camera, locking was too constrictive and flicking was too chaotic, so i "came up" with the wasd.
I remember the control felt better but ability casting was worsen cause idk where to bind skills, and the default scheme was somewhat already wired in (this was after 1-3 month of playing). After some struggle with the wasd i decided its not worth it and thinking the default was just how moba are intended to be control, so i just do it to this day.
Felt funny to think if i were to follow through with the setup 10y ago we probably could have the same setup lol.
Since your first WASD Keybinds Video I've actually witness 2 instance (Pekinwoof and Biofrost) of plays in the middle of the fight where the player had to basically guess because everything is happening outside the screen, but that player cant move the camera since they have to click and use abilities etc.
When I first saw your video I legit thought it was satire.... I now see the logic behind this set up. still, if you have high DPM, which is almost inarguably an advantage to have to be able to do reaction flashes in any direction, then also pushing the camera is pretty trivial. If you decide to have low DPM for wrist health/preference then this setup definitely makes sense.
ik alot of ppl may not like ur opinions on the game but you are a very reasonable person
I know this doesn't pertain much to the video, but I just saw your new AD Nid video (fantastic btw I love seeing AP champs played ad), but it got me wondering what your favourite item in the game is? (present day or removed) like either by functionality or just because it was enjoyable. Keep up the great content!
perhaps roa or iceborn
the realest human being in this community
Been a WASD camera user since s4. The moment I started league I switched my camera controls to wasd. It’s so much more comfortable
I'm trying WASD camera controls for almost 1 week and I still can't get used to it.
Though I am relatively new to league, I play for just 1 year.
Moreover, I've switched hands.
And still it is so hard to get used to.
Feels counter-intuitive for a player with FPS background.
But I will give it 1 more week and probably make a video. I had a lot of weird and funny problems, especially in first 3 days.
As a fps player it feels a lot better but I've been playing league for a while, I also have a lot shorter fingers and different hand placement than nidhog so I've been using szxc and I feel a lot better on these controls, since I'm able to keep qwer and sums on the same keys and for the Fkey issue I just use shift 1-4
@@taiiko404i was comparing FPS controls to some RTS games
In CS, for example, you move your character with WASD. And sometimes I expect my character in league to move when i press WASD.
This issue disappears after first 2-3 games of the day, but it is annoying
Instead of wasd i use szxc for camera movement, wasd was not for me but camera movement is a hindrance for me, especially since i am playing on a lower sens than most. Szxc binds is a change that helped immensely. Locked screen can also cause a lot of inaccuracies especially sinco most of the champs i play are high movement, high apm champs
I got used to it after playing a few arams in a couple of days, but I have a lot less time on league (3ish months)
I started using it and I was genuinely hardstuck in emerald but after getting more used to it I actually got to diamond lol which is a peek for me so idk maybe just not for everyone but def helped my gameplay I have been playing since 2019 and have never made it past plat/emerald but honestly im wondering if i'll be able to even make it through diamond my gameplay feels so much better now @@BlackBurnBear
Honestly, your video made me give a try at new binds that work better for me, not only camera binds but other that can maybe improve the way i move my champ. I am not trying wasd because that would be too much for me, but i believe that there is something better that the default binds. I saw the main message of the video is that we should experiment with our binds and that there is something better than default, and not that wasd is the only correct version. Also, any oerson with a brain can understand that half the video is a joke, thing are oversimplified so they are fun, it is not a step by step guide of ehat to do
I don't use wasd, I am instead trying to use m3 to accelerate camera, I changed the f-keys to 1-2-3-4-5 though, as you suggested in the video.
In order to do so, I changed the items to z-x-c-v-b-n. And some others keys to other places.
I think it's better than default.
The pain of changing sucks tbh, but I'm a min/maxer
What does min/maxer means?
@@Vennelemin/max stands for minimal and maximum, minimizing flaws and maximazing strengths
Personally, I've enjoyed the binds but I've never really got to see how they felt at a full level. Roughly around the same time I switch to experiment with WASD (I'm all down for experimentation), I ended up injuring my right hand through playing a rhythm game for multiple hours a day. Think of it as a push to a certain rank. This significantly made what I can play in league at a all time low since I've mostly been resting and recovering, trying to heal the repetitive injury. The only character that doesn't hurt my hand that bad is Yummi (for obvious reasons). Since my right hand is the injured hand, right clicking and left clicking are quite painful after a short period of time using them. Yes, I can practice WASD through Yummi but my sample sizing feels so insignificant with this character compared to other higher APM characters that I have no idea if I like it or not. I think what I will most likely do is stick to them anyway even if I am forced to play Yummi and just practice left hand positioning, see if I can find a comfortable spot and go from their.
Mostly it seems to be destructive criticism without much explanations or supported opinions, glad it got you thinking in depth about the way you made your points in the WASD video though.
I'm considering using these keybinds since I used to play a whole lot of rome total war.
one counter argument could be that moving your camera with your mouse and targeting a target should be most of the time in the same direction, so it's not like if you have to do 180 degree between moving your camera on side with your mouse and target your abilities. (not that i'm completly ok with that argument, i think it have good and bad in it, but at least it's more reasonable than the argument " it's wrong ").
In the end i like your approach on your first video, not that i'm agree or disagree with it, just that from a person like me who love to optimise everything that he do, having people thinking differently open some new ideas that will open research, thinking, debate, testing which lead to optimal setup, maybe not the first one but everything start from somewhere ! Keep it up
i completly agree with you id say its pretty champion dependant too for example i play riven so my keyboard hand needs more usage than my mouse hand but for a champ thats autoatack based moving the cam with wasd would be great
That jitter thing you brought up haunted me for a long time as a high DPI player 😭
haha
I'm going to be up front with you. Ever since I have changed my key binds to WASD, I have significantly reduced my league play time. Thinking about moving the camera and using different key binds in general completely demolished the dopamine hits I got from logging in. League went from an addiction to a chore. Make of that what you will.
youre cured.
hahaha
@KingNidhogg oh just to keep things clear: I'm going to stick it out. I've seen some improvements with my camera movement, even though it feels like Im trudging. Just some growing pains that's all.
wasd key binds might be a good switch for most people, I've played guitar for 15 years though so keeping my fingers on qwer is important for me i have massive finger flexibility and stretching strength, i use my pinky much better than most i still have 800 dpi and i manage it because i'm so go at using my space bar to reset my camera in ways that reduce the amount i move my mouse.
nidhogg foaming from the mouth with all the engagement
Youve spent years building up a viewerbase that is different from Nemesis', and I am willing to bet that the kinds of people who watch your content are smart enough to know that everything you say is meant to be taken with a bit of scepticism. Especially since you have talked extensively about content creation in the past.
Ffs, dont feel like you need to apologize for the ones that cant see your content for what it is. Youre an entertainer and game educator, and that you have been doing exceptionally well, especially as of late.
I can feel a shitstorm coming, but hopefully thats just my pessimism. GL.
Locked cam + moving camera whenever you need info ? F-keys will forever be goated
Man, I'm sorry this apparently turned into drama. I had no idea this video blew up but good on you dude! I enjoyed it quite a bit. As a follower of yours I enjoy a lot of your dryer educational videos as well as your more fast paced well edited videos that are also funny. This was obviously the latter if you watch much of your content. It's still good knowledge though. It made me think about the game in a different way and consider trying something new and seeing what I learn about the game in the process... And MAYBE find a new preferred way to play.
Anyway, glad you had some success on the video, I loved it... But sorry you gotta deal with some big time pro/streamer fan drama bc he has no context for the video.
❤
It's simple: either you're a person who enjoys using the mouse or keyboard to move the camera, and it's gonna help to use WASD if:
- You are not good at using the mouse to move the camera.
- You have the skill to learn new keyboard configurations, or you're a person who can handle that process.
- You want to use champions that require a lot of information on the screen, have crazy mobility, or long-range skill shots.
In my personal case, I love this config. As a person who learned how to use Colemak and has tried to create my own custom layout multiple times, I think this one is very well made. If I have to use the mouse to move the camera, I'd learn it if one day I want to play skill shot champs like Brand, but right now, as I'm trying to get a better job, I don't want to procrastinate by learning this layout because it seems very exciting and fun. But as a main Briar (D4, neither a good nor bad player) right now, it's not necessary in my case, especially for that kind of melee low-range OTP but ING it can improve my game by a lot cuz screen info and TAB it's underrated in all non Apex tier ELOs. Still, it's an amazing layout that I'm gonna use if I want to tryhard again in the game, probably next season.
Hey, I haven't watched your original video on this topic, but I admire the way to "innovate" some stuff that league players rarely think about.
However I have to agree with nemesis on this for several reasons why it wouldn't work for me and probably reasonably large amount of pc players.
In the end i also included my own solution to the camera control problem and would like to hear what you think about it
1. A lot of people have their wrist rested on the keyboard/it's wrist rest
1.1. Having to switch between wasd and 1234 format is too much movement (fingers and wrist have to adjust)
2. Pressing keys above the keys that they usually rest on feels easier. (Pressing 1234 with fingers on qwer is easier than pressing asdf) (on that note i got used to a-clicking with pinky and i use my thumb for d and f)
-> there's only f keys above numbers so one row is missing
3. Using mouse hand to lessen the burden on keyboard hand is very valuable, but I agree that the vice versa principle is just as important. However the mouse hand is used to quick flicky movements which are the same that you need to control the camera.
For the vice versa most people use space bar to focus camera on themselves quickly.
4. Additionally to point 3, I don't think having 4 keys for "one" (camera movement) input is reasonable, especially when you have to adjust a otherwise static hand posture for it (that's why i also dont like using f-keys, sorry that i brought them up in an example earlier)
However this has brought me a new idea for a hotkey (that maybe exists? idk) for you to try out or think about.
I'll call it "Hotkey" for sake of simplicity
"Hotkey" would be toggle/hold down like target champs only.
While "Hotkey" is held down the cursor position is locked in place. The mouse movement moves the camera instead.
Why this?
There's 3 ways to reposition camera.
1. Mouse movement: Long movement, but can be accurate.
2. space bar: short movement, only centers on yourself, not accurate
3. wasd method: short movement, accurate, hard to get used to and might cause misclicks (imo)
The "hotkey" method tries to combine minimal movement on mouse and keyboard hand to quickly adjust the camera precisely
Thoughts on the dpi thing as someone who plays osu! (a game where cursor precision is half the game) with mouse to a decently high level. DPI is literally all preference, it doesn't matter what you use so long as it isn't the stupidest thing ever. I can literally double my dpi (800 -> 1600 @ 1080p) and adjust in a couple minutes. Anyone trying to argue that your dpi is bad is probably wrong unless you're using something truly stupid, cover your screen in more than an inch but less than your entire desk and you're solid.
I appreciate you pushing this newish paradigm. However I would push further in saying that keyboard controls are in fact optimal (when comfortable).
With edge-pan, while moving the camera you cannot aim abilities (therefore also not cast them except some specific ones), move or target champions. You also have to take the time to move to edge, keep it there and move back. This may at worst be 2x your screen. In essence there is bound to be some downtime.
With keyboard, while moving the camera you can move, aim abilities (though may be hard), cast abilities that are not on the fingers you use to move the camera (easier with DASF instead of WASD) and the instant the camera control stops you can have your mouse in the right place without having to reposition.
While these in practice are not massive differences, with optimal play the other is clearly superior. (I would also argue that keyboard might be easier to get proficient at but that's beside the point)
I play with 3x mouse accel from around 650dpi-2000dpi with a pretty shallow curve. Its enough where i can flick to the end of the screen while also having percise movement when hitting skillshots
I also started playing league on a razer taurus since i basically started. I cant play on keyboard anymore. My tab key is my auto attack key, my items are my asdf keys, my stop key is above q, and my flash and ignite are on my thumb by ping and center camera
When i upgrade to a taurus 2.0, ill try binding camera to the thumb buttons
Is 1900 considered high DPI? I see a lot of people use 800.
Immediately when I started playing League, I moved my camera controls to WASD. Simply felt natural. W ability is on F, Flash is on X, smite on G. I've tried using my mouse for the camera (everyone uses it that way so it should be optimal, right?) but it just doesn't work for me.
There are about a thousand people in every region that would profit from more efficiency. The rest would rise the ranks just as quick but easier with turning brain on and not being mad after botlane doesn’t get 6cs first wave.
On a more important note: eat regional vegetables, drink plenty of water and limit salt and meat consumption. Is healthy
I went down to 200 dpi, to get used to it in less time, I use it for everything. Yes I feel more precision. It's just getting used to it and that's it. I already feel like I haven't changed the DPI, it seems normal to me. But I still have to practice camera control. 👍👍
Great video mister Hogg. Hope people aren’t giving you a hard time about this
Hey nid, just wanted you to know while Im not good at using WASD tooce camera but I have been using the number keys instead of qwerty since you posted your first vid on it
Wouldn't you want high dpi but then change mouse sens so your mouse is accurate but moves at a slower speed?
solid video, talking about what works for some and not others. i've been playing league for years with NO sound. AT ALL. i'm hardstuck plat/emerald, but it is what it is lol
correct me if i’m wrong but doesn’t gumayushi play with like 800 dpi and 40 speed in game
Anyone has other weird settings ?
For me, I used WASD for camera movement, 1 - 6 for skills and spells, T for ward, R for recall, Z -N for items, Q for AA, F for stop, and E for mastery Emote.
I need to rebind stuff. The only stuff I have different is that my wards are on x, and that I put one of the items on z. (Both for wards 😂). I play support, so I usually have an usable item or two besides the wards, and I like to be able to access wards with my thumb. My hands are kinda little and I don't want to have them all close to the qwer area so my index has to focus on the activable item in team fight and maybe a panic ward on the jungle and yada yada :( that's how feels nice to me because I have to press those things so much and I already have my hand pretty close to the space bar so why not right?
Not as weird, but I do use x for attack move, mouse side button for warding, tilde for scoreboard, tab for target champs only and alt+a/s/d for items on the bottom row.
@@idiosyncrasy7703 , the wards on the mouse is genius. 😂😂
Ive always respected you for your own innovation on the controls for league Nidhogg and i think that should be how it is. Good players recognising good players and being intrigued rather than discouraged from methods in which they can play at that level
After watching your vid, I bought a Razer Tartarus and binded camera movements to its thumbpad. Now the camera is all up to my left thumb, feels weird for now but probably needs a lot of practice.
I used to do this but I found it is a bit imprecise and is why if you look up the hitbox controller like someone mentioned in a comment above it was a innovation in fighting game controllers that actually removed the stick from fighting game controllers and allowed for four directional buttons to be used instead
Faker plays with 3800 dpi and Gumayusi plays with 800
turns out preference is more important
@@KingNidhogg Which wasn't the point of the original video. You even admitted that the disingenuous framing was for click bait, that was the main issue. The original video is as serious as teaching silver players mid game macro, they won't improve. But more views > good advice I guess
Me personally I got better with this layout but I adapted it. I play with a Razer Tartarus and I use its joystick to move the camera. Same concept, I don't move the camera with my mouse and It's just so smoother for me
I love the video and your ability to self-analyze without frustration, it's a key feature in a good league of legends player. That being said, the low dpi would kill me personally. IMO keep your dpi low enough to where its not flying around and you can't control it, but high enough to where its not a complete burden to try and move it around. I'm a masters peak player for reference so nidhogg is a better player, regardless of elo I believe you should play to what feels comfortable to you personally, no matter what that is.
My takes from the first portion of the video as a bad league player (gold/plat) but competitor at a high level in other titles. Sorry for the essay.
1: I know sens is preference but I firmly believe too high is almost always bad. From coaching in Valorant and Overwatch I know people are very stingy with lowering their sens even when I can see them jittering or I can see they purely use their fingers or wrist to aim. use your wrist, and arm, for the best accuracy. ask any member of Voltaic and they will agree. fingers are inconsistent but may feel comfortable and purely using your wrist or purely using your aim is inefficient and u aren't maximizing potential. Your take on pro players using high dpi because they're comfortable with it is spot on in my opinion. Even players in shooters like woxic use high sens due to thousands upon thousands of hours on it. This doesn't necessarily make it good even if a pro uses it and in league it may seem like less of a hinderance. League to me, is all about consistency. Lower = more consistent. Too low = your arm might get tired.
2: I tried the WASD binds and hated it. Do I think its bad? No, I can very easily understand the reasoning, I just:
A) Didn't use it long enough
B) The other keybinds didn't feel intuitive for league *IN MY OPINION* this relates back to the personal preference argument; it may not be for everyone.
C) I played Fortnite very competitively and have around 6-7k hours. When more optimal keybinds were discovered, I was worse on them and after about a couple weeks, I switched back to what I was used to. This definitely will cause many pros to not use WASD binds similarly to me not using optimal Fortnite binds.
But lets all remember, humans are stupid. Disney only realized that their mascots should have 5 finger gloves around 1970. You would think it's pretty obvious people need to use 5 fingers to do things but it took them around 20 years to figure it out. This may not be the best example it was just off the top of my head but it brings up the point that if things aren't thought about or tested, it may take a long time for it to ever be considered no matter how basic. WASD keybinds may become standard in 20 years if league is still running. Pros are still learning, nobody knows everything. Pros even still disagree on many major game mechanics or strategies. If you're somebody who's into science, u know that everything in science is just a theory because it could change or be different in a billion years, we just don't know everything. There are ~8 billion perspectives in the world and ~180 million perspectives on league, but only one true reality. What are the chances that the perspective of one person, or the select few pros, are that true reality? very unlikely.
This already feels too long for most to read so I'll end it here. Nidhogg's argument is very sound. Important to remember humans are opinionated and biased. I may be biased to support Nidhogg, that may be true. Nemesis may be biased to what he knows and that's fair as well. But his approach to just calling it terrible at face value is detrimental. This post may not be coherent, i wrote it up quick in between matches at a Valorant LAN tournament lol I have nothing else to do and I haven't even finished the video but yeah those are my initial thoughts.
You have a fundamental misunderstanding of why pro FPS players use low sensitivity. The reason is NOT consistency, it’s accuracy.
FPS players need to flick exactly onto somebody’s head in the space of a few pixels, any deviation and they miss the shot, in other words you need precision. In league you have a lot bigger margin of error for ability usage, in addition for ADCs you need to constantly click between 2 points to kite, something fps players don’t do except in rare cases like flicking between 2 possible angles.
Also if you really play at a VALORANT LAN please go back to competitive you are not ready if you think low sens is for consistency.
Interesting that you completely misunderstand what he's saying and then write this whole comment about it rather than just reading it again.@@ehqwk
@@ehqwk u may think im wrong but this is my career. it may sound cringe to others but u don't understand the amount of research i have put into esports. I have researched strategies, stats, talked to credible people, and vod reviewed pros, probably more than I have even played the games themselves.
after 10 years of playing fps games (nearly 6k hours in fortnite, 2k hours in cs, 3k in paladins, 1.5k in overwatch, 1k in valorant not counting scrims, 600 in aim lab) u would assume i would know more than some random youtube commenter. this is a league video. im shit at league i'll admit that and i dont know much about it. but now you're bringing up fps?
and bringing up accuracy and precision to somebody who was a biochemistry major for 2 years is funny. I dropped out of that degree for personal reasons and switched to sports management (for my coaching career) but i at least know the basics of scientific terminology. of course u wouldnt know that but i would hope people do research before starting an argument
what I've been doing since I started playing league is enabling middle mouse to drag camera and then rebinding one of my mouse keys to be middle mouse click. I think WASD while its a cool idea is just a worse version of middle click to drag camera even after giving it a try. also moving your mouse over to the edge of the screen is just as bad because it can potentially move your cursor away from what you need to be clicking on. obviously moving your mouse to the edge can be helped by having higher sensitivity/dpi but after playing middle click camera for so long it just seems pointless.
Do you use target only champ, attack movement, Stop moving or others binds? your keybinds seems to work fine for your kind of gameplay but you only talk about camera, item and spells. there's a lot of others things. Also i think you can be accurate with any kind of DPI, imo i can't play if i have to move my mouse across my whole desk and lift it to continue.
Yess! Finally someone says it
There's another comment here that identifies that it's more challenging to have accurate mouse clicks than keystrokes, which I agree is a valid reason to offload camera control from your right to left hand. But in general, the game doesn't have many scenarios where you need to be actively adjusting your camera to the extent that it affects concurrent champion targeting.
The standard POV zoom in League spans, we'll say 2000 units left to right, and you can see ~1000 units above and to the sides (below less so). When you're fighting someone, despite how much mobility's in the game now, the vision you get in your POV is absolutely enough to just unlock your camera and leave it stationary. Champions don't engage each other beyond this 1000 range unless it's like Xerath and Nidalee exchanging Qs. Most fights, especially ones where kills are on the table, happen in closer proximity -- say the standard 550 auto range or less. In here, again your camera doesn't need to be doing anything, allowing you to remove the 2nd source of movement affecting mouse accuracy altogether (the 1st being the thing you're actually trying to click on). If you need to pan your camera, you'll only encounter concurrent camera + mousing at a close range when panning straight down.
I'm general, I think manning the camera + your mouse concurrently always reduces accuracy, regardless of if it's WASD or not. Your camera should centre roughly on you at the start of fights, then move slightly as the fight goes in a given direction. This can be efficiently done by double-tapping spacebar, resetting the camera on you (locking) and becoming stationary in a new place (2nd click unlocks).
When's the 1 on 1 talk?
I use ASDF instead of QWER the indent on the f key helps a bunch
Would like to see nemesis react to this
me personally, i like your binds better than default. controlling camera with mouse feels clunky and locked screen gives me motion sickness. i took your binds from a stream of yours a little over a year and a half ago, so i was surprised when i saw a video going in depth about them
WASD, or pushing the camera with your mouse, or lockscreen, or whatever you play with, it always comes down to a skill issue. a large majority of people play locked cam, a lot of people play pushing the camera with their mouse, and some people play with unconventional keybinds, but the thing these all have in common is that not everyone who falls into these categories is challanger/pro. you play wasd nidhog and are multi season challanger which literally proves that these binds have potentional.
its also really funny reading his stream chat through this video, because like nemasis theyre just saying insults and being bitter lol (didnt know you peaked emerald :/)
One thing I think is worth noting is that League of Legends is a game that relies a lot more on good macro compared to micro. If a league player wants to improve, they can spend hours mastering every single interaction on their one trick and practice camera control and cursor placement, but learning good positioning, how to play the map, and mastering the basics are a more efficient way to improve.
I somewhat adopted your wasd keybinds a long time ago, but i use szxc to go up left down right, i didn't want to sacrifice my muscle memory built on qwer so i just added on top of it. I can say it definitely felt better to me moving my camera with my keyboard instead of mouse. It is 100% preference but give it a try.
Whatever works best for you is whats important, so by you building on your own experience you created practical application. Gj dude!
The question of should extra work be taken by the left or right hand, keyboard or mouse? Easy solution - grow a 3rd arm.
I've been using your keybinds for a few weeks now. I was fail flashing (pressing e instead of 3) a lot, and occasionally press 4 instead of r (I think 4 was my old ward button and r is my new ward button, but r was my old ult and 4 is my new ult so yeah). I also had to lower my mouse pan speed to break the habit because I was forgetting to use WASD for camera. I have been getting used to it a lot more, and my only problem now is that sometimes my camera will spaz out especially mid fight, I think it might have something to do with my inputs bugging out. I have gotten a second monitor recently and I suspect it has something to do with this, if you know anything about this it would be helpful! Otherwise I have been enjoying the set-up!
As an addendum, I rebinded the function keys to view teammates from f1-f4 to A,S,D,F with a shift modifier. It's a lot more accessible, and I added shift+space to center back on myself with regular space being for attack move.
nemesis being sensational when discussing nidhogg's senationalized video is so funny to me5