**Hey guys correction, the new APUs do technically have an encoder onboard, it's just functionally I have no idea why they just don't work properly.... (relive isn't available), checking OBS, it does give you the option to use h.264 but it seriously degrades the video quality in this mode, and premiere pro just doesn't work properly with it... lol...
Yes and H264 encoding has always been AMDs encoder downfall. Their H265 is supposed to be superior. I’m also guessing that very few people would try to game capture using an APU….. my guess is the intersection of those who play games with an APu and those who do streaming is very small.
Um... You're testing these CPUs on an Asrock motherboard. Their BIOS has been notoriously glitchy and erroneously using the STAPM technology, causing very serious slowdowns. If you're dealing with that messing with your benchmarks, you need to do these again after the BIOS fixes, or use a different motherboard altogether.
@@paulbeers4105 With the 24.1.1, they said they updated the encode quality of all codec (HEVC/AVC/AV1). I don't know how much of an improvement it is considering not many people, if any, actually testing that, which is a shame, but just going with AMD example it does produce more detail.
@@exxor9108 Just like Brian to use the cheapest, shittiest motherboards available. Channel's all about saving a buck, but you should never cheap out on the board or power supply imho.
it has 20 dedicated lanes. You can get more lanes on a better board like a x670. I saw someone said it was nerfed to 8, but that makes no sense, it should give you x16 on the Pci1 x16 slot on both b650 and x670.
Yes, they only support 10 lanes in PCIe 4.0. Some (most) motherboards will convert that to 20 lanes of PCIe 3.0. But it won't be possible to run PCIe 4.0 SSDs along with a full bandwidth graphics card. EDIT: Correction, the 10 PCIe 4.0 lanes is for the 8500G. The 8600G and 8700G have 20 PCIe 4.0 lanes, but only 16 are usable. 4 are used to connect to the chipset.
Only x8 for GPU slot (pcie 4). I'm not sure you'll use GPU which need more than that in combination with any of these APU's so not such a big deal but it would be easier to accept if only 4 and 6 core were available. Anyway, I see them as pointless in DIY market, I'm sure there will be nice SFF offering with these inside from HP/Lenovo but there is no reason for average buyer to get them when is much easier and better to just combine something much cheaper with second hand card or even brand new rx6600.
@@gorjy9610 good point. the iGPU is strong enough to come a long way, and any dedicated card that would be worth upgrading to will have x16. Or be at least 5 years old, because gimping the interface on cards is a rather recent design.
Still rocking a 5600g in my build. APUS are super convenient if your use case requires integrated graphics. Thank you for another great video, Tech YES Man!
These G series APU's are only good for two things low power and ITX builds. If there is space for GPU in the PC case you should just use one. These APU's will be great in the future, when you buy a used brand PC (HP, Dell, Fuji), replace the CPU and you good to go, great beginner PC for kids. 4600G and 5600G is already a great option for kids first computer, they can play some games but not AAA titles and later you can add a used GPU. I just finised tuning my silent 5600G ITX system, it uses 102W external brick PSU and only 1 Noctua fan for cooling. Power consumption from the wall min: 16W, max: 90W, gaming 50W.
I think in the ram hes missing ram speed/capacity , the ram is what limit the cpu , while the capacity definitly reduce the 1% low Still , its a low watt cost 108p computer , usualy a 1060 will use around 90 watts and the cpu with it will use maybe 50 , so140 , yet this new cpu will use 80 , or even less
Regardless of somewhat bad pricing (at the moment) or some issues here and there, this still made me so happy, this is THE KIND OF CHANGE I want to see more. No matter how you see it, these integrated graphics just changed the market, a lot of super small ITX cases like that InWin one isn't a "cute gimmick" anymore, you are really able to make "Steam Machines" with these and really portable, the ITX market, the gaming market, and a lot of things just changed with this. Yes, it's pretty baby steps, but seeing a goddamn integrated graphics behave almost as my old 1050Ti, its genuinely jaw dropping, this will help a lot of people if it keeps going like this.
My "ideal" APU for 7000/8000 series would be 4 cores, the same cache per core as the 7700x(so the same L3 as the 8700G but for 4 cores rather than 8) 16-20CUs, the full 28 PCIe lanes(24 usable) but then CXL support so you can take those 16 lanes that would normally be a GPU, and instead use them for a 3rd channel of RAM, even if its only PCIE 4.0, thats basically 2 extra channels assuming you're running DDR5 4800(31GB/s vs 35GB/s). But assuming you can get DDR5 6200 to 7600 in gear1, you could dynamically choose if you want to dedicate the fast RAM to the GPU, then share the ~31Gbps PCIe RAM pool between the CPU and GPU, or use it all as 1 pool, but a single pool would be hard to coordinate. Heck having 2 pools means you could get low capacity DIMMs for the fast pool to hit even higher clocks, then high capacity assault DIMMs for the slow pool. 16GB of fast RAM is cheap, but 16GB shared between CPU and GPU is not enough, even at 800p(i have several APUs and 16GB seems to only work properly for the steamdeck) and getting 2 sticks of fast RAM+2 sticks of slow but dense RAM, might 1: be cheaper 2:give you more RAM in total and 3:give you more total bandwidth.
@protonrecuva6717 They mixed the generations in the 7xxx line. The 7840 and 7940 are much better 7xxm chipset equivalent to the 8600/8700G. Rather than the older 6xxm in the 7735
Yeah building the new ryzen apu is not worth it still. bettter go with i3 12100f and a gtx 1060 used or maybe gtx 1650 it's still solid combo for entry level gaming in terms of price and performance. Building a new ryzen APU's is ridiculously not worth it at all, atleast for now.
you have not been getting screwed by the youtube algorithm this is the first video that's really interesting of yours ive seen on the youtube homepage for about 6-12 months
bro.. this isnt normal, how the F you still dont hit the 1 m subs yet!?! you are one of the best quality and sympathy tech guy on my youtube are you spreading your work on social media everywhere else?
Yeah, I can't see your videos until now. Its been strange. I am glad you did this review. I still think 900p to 720p would be a great handheld cpu. Love your channel! I'm going to add the bell notification.
Double that for the effective rate. The results are about as good as they can be with high speed DDR5 (which I wouldn't even assume for a cheapo-APU build).
Thank you for looking into this. Shows what the performance is currently on these APUs. Shows the shift at least in that the price to performance for what is now older hardware honestly being better in the long run rather than getting these newer Ryzen APUs. Which to be fair, even most Ryzen AM4 platform with a dedicated GPU like a RX6600 or RX5700 would be a great build for a long time to come as well when it comes to price to performance right now. I would like to know more about the encoding on the entire Ryzen APU lineup though. I'm surprised that these newer APUs don't have any encoding as you say. Does the RDNA APUs not have encoders? Do the Vega APUs not have encoders as well? I honestly just like to know this cause of they don't than man I'm happy I never invested into AMD APUs cause I definitely need encoding. Yet, I'm also sad cause I would love to have an AMD capable solution similar to Intel's Quicksync which I've used for a while now. I could be completely wrong and turns out that maybe these AMD APUs do support encoding like maybe the Vega APUs. I just don't see a lot of information on any of this kind of stuff. If anybody has info on this or better yet experience with this, I would greatly appreciate any info on topics like encoding with APUs.
8000 series APU does have hardware encoder and decoder. It has the same video hardware acceleration as in RX 7000 series GPU. Whether or not an application took advantage of it is another thing, but afaik, Premiere Pro does support hardware decoding and encoding acceleration from all vendors, including AMD. Either the support inside Premiere Pro for AMD is not good or maybe there are some other bottlenecks preventing it to perform optimally.
I mean functionally it just doesn't work properly... premiere pro was having issues utilizing it properly, and AMD doesn't even offer relive to use for desktop recording... I mean it technically could be there, but functionally it just isnt...
@@techyescity And functionally you're just not a very good reviewer mate. Stick to used builds. Talk to the vendor before spreading misinformation, like Gamer's Nexus did.
You could've left better constructive criticism instead of going all out to be disrespectful to the guy like he's Linus or something. Functionally, you're a shitty person. Stay lonely, dude.
Wouldnt be that wierd for them to release 8700G3D would boost bowth GPU and CPU performance in gaming. This CPU really needs that extra 16MB of cache + 3D V-Cache.
I love how TYC is the only youtuber giving us the information we really want to know on these new apus Side note, if you somehow manage to get your hands on the intel 164u processor (its the one with the lowest powerdraw, about 9-15w and turbo 30w rather than the ryzen processors which are "15w" but turbo to 50W+) that would be really interesting. N100/N300 also works I cant wait, in 2-3 years we might get a 5-9w "pi zero" but x86 and 8600g in performance, but thats being optimistic
I'll give some slack to Brian on this one, he probably just doesn't have one. He's not really a tech reviewer, this channel is mostly about used parts and bargain hunting. Hence him comparing these parts to a used GPU from 2016.
Yeah, no problem. I enjoy this channel because of old parts when he reviews 10$ 16 cores Xeons. Being said, I have a 5700G apu and the move to DDR5 was the game changer.
You got this right mate. I need something right now to use now and planning to add in a GPU later and this 8600G makes so much sense to me. Great video!
Strange, seen quite a few videos of 7840h/hs getting better/closer results when comparing to a 1060. How is that possible when the 8700g should be unlimited by power/cooling compared to a 7840h?
Brian, I have a question: Do you still have, and use, the Asrock B650 Live Mixer motherboard? And if so, how has your experience with it been? Is there any chance you could include it in an upcoming video and maybe do an updated report on it? Maybe compare the B650 Pro RS to the Live Mixer? Thank you, greetings from frozen Alaska, don't let yer meat loaf. OH, and as far as these new APUs, hard pass from me. With the 7600/7700 having basic video for setup and troubleshooting. These APUs are a bit pointless. Just my 2¢
I currently have 2 pc's with a r7 5700g and they go over the 80 fps in lows 1080p, now I am willing to spend those couple extra bucks for the 8700g and just slap a 4060, Thank you for your video.
Refresh, Refresh and then refresh again! I hit refresh in UA-cam quite often. Without doing this I find I would have missed all the content I was waiting for.
8 fps at what point? 8 fps when you only get 20 means 40% more and can make the difference between unplayable stutter and sort of playable. 8 fps when you already have 150 is 5% and won't even be noticeable.
I'd love to see how x99 xeons are holding up in 2024, especially the ones that use DDR3, I've got a metric butt-ton of regecc that I'd love to flip in rigs but uncertain of the performance of those ddr3 chips like the 2629 V3, 2678 V3, 2649 V3. Never get to see reviews on them especially in modern games
I love the real life comparisons Tech Yes provides compared to the other UA-camrs. Idle wattage, productivity performance, value, used GPU comparison, video encoders; all topics near and dear to my interests.
Fun fact: according to userbenchmark website, the 780m which the 8700g got has the same total score has the RX 6400 gpu and this little fella can come in a single slot LP so... At least it gives an alternative for those who likes ssf itx builds well... Theoretically I didn't tested it out. Great video as always, Brian!
It's not exactly surprising since 6400 is such a turd. Worse architecture and same amount of CU's. Its only upside vs the 780m is the dedicated VRAM. It's a low end laptop GPU put into a separate card.
Now that is an interesting test. Can the new APU be a complete platform replacement for one of the (still) most popular graphics cards. And totally fair testing the 8600G with slightly lower RAM/IF clocks. That is what your chip can handle, so it will be a decent example of what people can expect from retail units. But one question is what kind of test the Premiere render was. Some integrated benchmark or a self chosen video? And what target codec was used?
Question. What about allacking PC Ram Memory for the Built-in GPU to be used. I was thinking about my rig that has 32 GB Ram. Would allowing the built-in GPU to use some of that GB RAM>??? Would that make a difference.
HI BRO , I AM A FAN OF YOUR UNDERVOLTING ACTION , CAN U UNDERVOLT 87OOG TO 70 WATT (WALL POWER CONSUMPTION) BUT WITH PERFORMANCE EQUAL TO 7840U ALSO AT 70 WATT WALL ?
I'm looking to build/buy a SFF PC for portability. Building a PC using the 8700G would come in at about the same price as a Minisforum HX100G (in my country), which sports a Ryzen7 7840HS and Rx 6650M. The Minisforum PC should be significantly more powerful, and a lot smaller. Any downside for going with the Minisforum?
Do you have an x670 or x670e you could test these on? just to see if a GPU would be gimped the same way if you put it in the lower, chipset controlled PCI slots instead of the top slot.... I haven't heard anyone bring this up, and it just might be a solution to not really being able to upgrade to a GPU down the road..... it wouldn't be in pcie 5.0 but no GPU runs in 5.0 now except the Intel cards, but there wouldn't be ANY difference between ANY card running in either 4 or 5 .... well MAYBE the 4090, but I really don't think PCIe4.0 is saturated enough to need anymore throughput than it offers...
These are essentially laptop chip leftovers, which means that they weren't designed for the desktop market, and it shows. This power was impressive back at the start of 2022 when the 6900 HX came out, but now that we're all waiting for a delayed strix point/strix halo, it's barely worth considering. The issue here is that the interest for APUs comes from graphics performance, not CPU performance. I'm not spending 320$ on an 8 core APU for it's zen 4 full speed core CPU, I'd get an x3d if that were the case. When it comes to the desktop market, just give us the most compact 6 core CPU you can (zen c cores or die shrunken zen 2 cores), and as many CU's as you can possibly fit on the package.
Would it be possible to see revisit of 7900XTX? I want to buy 4k 144hz monitor and don't care about Ray Tracing and DLSS stuff, just want to play 4k native. I like the way you test stuff.
Why not just test the 1060 and the 1650 super in the 8700G system? That way you can directly test iGPU vs the dedicated GPUs without having a different CPU affect the numbers. An even better dedicated GPU to test would be the 1650 non super because it was the last Nvidia GPU that could be powered solely from PCIe bus power.
@@CameraObscure it's fine so long as the test makes all of the different variables clear and obvious, and this test passes that test. all comparisons are informative, sorry this one wasn't comparing what you wanted though.
i think the goal of the comparison was wehter it is worth replacing your older system (CPU and GPU) with the APU. If you already spend money for the 8700G, why would you keep your old GPU instead of selling it. And if you have the money to not rely on the resell value to get the new APU, you can still resell it and get a stronger CPU + GPU combo. I'm for example are exactly in that situation. Aging platform that needs an upgrade, and the test has shown that the APU is not better than keeping my old GPU and just get a new CPU/MB/RAM upgrade. So instead of the "is the iGPU faster than the old dGPU", the test was "is it worth replacing your old CPU + GPU with the APU"
@@CameraObscure being unable to see the benefits of Having different Variables in comparison benchmarking shows a wider lack of technical comprehension.
How about overclock? APU would be awesome to boost CPU overall performance in terms of big data transfers or encoding / decoding BUT it still needs to be a chomky CPU overall + too small '3d cache' and overall thermals of 'x3d' chiplets
good progress but I could still pair up a 6 core cpu with an older gtx970 or 980 for less than half the price. You use a 1650 in the benchmark but but 970 can be had from anywhere at mates rates ATM.
Yeah but the 8600G as a cpu is one of the fastest hexcores around, the average GTX 970 is going on 10 years old and on death's doorstep, and the AM5 platform has probably at least three more years of support ahead of it. That's just not a fair comparison.
Back with the 5600G/5700G 3D Performance scaled quite much with memory bandwith. Is this the case for the 8600/8700 as well, as they are a monolithic design and it seems some aleady managed go get Ramspeeds of DDR-10600. It might be required to re-test as soon as better DDR5 are available ?
I think my comment got deleted? Not sure, but these do have encoeders. Storage Review was able to use the GPU to do hardware transcoding in their review. Wikipedia has a chart shoring that Phoenix APU's have the same encoder as Navi3. Maybe it was a software issue?
It's weird that you couldn't use the APU's encoding capabilities when it's clearly stated on their website that these things can encode h264, h265 and AV1 up to 4320p60 8/10bpc. Probably early software issue? I dunno. Anyway, thanks for the video!
I bought a R5 5600g a year ago for $120. It was fine for non-gaming. I even got ROCm working for AI stuff. Picked up a new RTX 3060 12 GB for $270. Now I can flight Sim and do productivity and creator work for pretty cheap. I don't think I'll spend more money on AM4, unless an amazing deal drops in my lap.
I think AMD should bring us a 6-core APU with the best iGPU they can (12+ CU's) since that would make sense for budget gamers and those building compact builds. I feel like there are no games that require 8 high-tier CPU cores to fully saturate 12 CU's on the GPU side. Sure, I get that there is an argument to be made that you might want a top-tier CPU for future GPU upgrades, but at the same time, they are happy to cut CPU cache which already reduces that future-proofing potential.
No. This is not accurate. They do. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_Core_Next These are just Phoenix Mobile CPU's on a Desktop platform. There was already a review showing using the 8700G to do transcoding on Jellyfin.
@@paulbeers4105 yes the hardware is there, i forgot that AMD disables the recording option in the Radeon Software for APUs. Either use OBS or modded drivers.
So researching more on the topic, technically they do, it's just after doing my rounds of testing, functionally I just think they don't. It's like AMD doesn't want one of the best features of the APU to be utilized properly (without other suggestions...).
I have the GTX 1060 and it plays very well, but a APU approach this very impressive. This is the start of the hybrid cpus. Even the latest 14series by Intel not even close. It does all this at a much lower power.
The fact these can be used in such tiny cases (because no need for dedicated GPI space) is worth it. I do not really need this as I have 3080 but its real cool how far we've come since Intel iGPU and now APU.
Dude I am more than happy with my Ryzen 7 5700X paired with my Nvidia RTX 3060 12GB (MSI Gaming X) version. Running 16GB of 3200 MHz ram which was plug and play and easily able to enable XMP in the bios. I know a few years down the road I will probably need to upgrade. By then maybe I'll get a 5000 series Nvidia card and the next gen AMD Ryzen chip.
I just don't get why put in such a powerful igpu in a apu in the price range where people should just buy an actual gpu, instead. We need a Ryzen 3 or 5 with a 780m, not a Ryzen 7.
perhaps because no one would upgrade from those to these? or perhaps for how the market favoring nvidia is? perhaps he can do another video doing that comparison
this is another AMD product that led me to believe, that MOST of AMD supporters are HYPE TRAIN "commuters". i remember seeing some youtuber i think it was like "gamer meld" and others that even claimed that the 8000G would easily beat a desktop GTX 1650 or 1660. some even said the 8600G iGPU beats 1660 Ti. and i read somewhere in the internet , article that have people who have benchmarked it, it turns out it cant even beat the old GTX 1080. it is merely equivalent to like 1050 ti or something. and to make it worse, all those AMD HYPERS(probably under AMD's payroll like those devs in linux scene) DID NOT MENTION ANYTHING about the AWFUL PCI LANE configs of the 8000G APU. forget about using multiple superfast SSD. it has PCIE lanes even worse than laptop i think. ooooooh HYPERS. you see those hypers recently go "AMD WON!" simply from announcement of claim made by AMD about their FUTURE product that nobody yet ever get to test. its just crazy. by any respect.
This has been most useful comparison for APU's. ❤❤❤❤❤❤. There is no bad product, just bad price. Even with high tax where I am, at 400€ is too much. Will get 7600 for 250, and 140-170 for used gpu like 1080 ti/ or invest around 500€ for 4060 ti 16gb. So much more performance, in small-ish case like COOLERMASTER MasterBox Q300L.
Ryzen Z1 Extreme Handhelds like the Rog Ally or the Lenovo Legion Go also have 12CU, like the 8700G. 90% of the use-cases for the 8600g or 8700g will be covered by these handhelds or will simply be bad choices compared to dGPU options.
Can I use the R5 8500G with the GTX 1060 6GB combined and use only the GTX 1060 as a GPU without the APU of the CPU? If yes, will there be a bottleneck?
im still pretty impressed by the performance of the 1060 in 2024. My first gaming pc ran a a10 6800k which i thought was so good at the time, although nothing compared to any modern day APU.
**Hey guys correction, the new APUs do technically have an encoder onboard, it's just functionally I have no idea why they just don't work properly.... (relive isn't available), checking OBS, it does give you the option to use h.264 but it seriously degrades the video quality in this mode, and premiere pro just doesn't work properly with it... lol...
Yes and H264 encoding has always been AMDs encoder downfall. Their H265 is supposed to be superior. I’m also guessing that very few people would try to game capture using an APU….. my guess is the intersection of those who play games with an APu and those who do streaming is very small.
Yeah it would be weird as I have used a 5700g just fine and encoded in OBS..
Um... You're testing these CPUs on an Asrock motherboard. Their BIOS has been notoriously glitchy and erroneously using the STAPM technology, causing very serious slowdowns. If you're dealing with that messing with your benchmarks, you need to do these again after the BIOS fixes, or use a different motherboard altogether.
@@paulbeers4105 With the 24.1.1, they said they updated the encode quality of all codec (HEVC/AVC/AV1). I don't know how much of an improvement it is considering not many people, if any, actually testing that, which is a shame, but just going with AMD example it does produce more detail.
@@exxor9108 Just like Brian to use the cheapest, shittiest motherboards available. Channel's all about saving a buck, but you should never cheap out on the board or power supply imho.
you have been getting screwed by the youtube algorithm this is the first video of yours ive seen on the youtube homepage for about 6-12 months
I was just thinking the exact same thing before I read your comment!
Yep, for me too
i only get videos from a few of the channels i subscribe to on the front page, the algorithm is weird; also on mobile it works better idk why
I've been following him for +/- 10 years now and he has always been a weird guy, but the content he brings to the table is super valuable!
I see every video and I'm not even a subscriber? So wouldn't say he's getting screwed by the algorithm.
Maybe I missed it, but is the 16x PCIe slot gimped in any way? Like only 8 lanes?
it has 20 dedicated lanes. You can get more lanes on a better board like a x670. I saw someone said it was nerfed to 8, but that makes no sense, it should give you x16 on the Pci1 x16 slot on both b650 and x670.
Yes, they only support 10 lanes in PCIe 4.0. Some (most) motherboards will convert that to 20 lanes of PCIe 3.0. But it won't be possible to run PCIe 4.0 SSDs along with a full bandwidth graphics card.
EDIT: Correction, the 10 PCIe 4.0 lanes is for the 8500G. The 8600G and 8700G have 20 PCIe 4.0 lanes, but only 16 are usable. 4 are used to connect to the chipset.
Only x8 for GPU slot (pcie 4). I'm not sure you'll use GPU which need more than that in combination with any of these APU's so not such a big deal but it would be easier to accept if only 4 and 6 core were available.
Anyway, I see them as pointless in DIY market, I'm sure there will be nice SFF offering with these inside from HP/Lenovo but there is no reason for average buyer to get them when is much easier and better to just combine something much cheaper with second hand card or even brand new rx6600.
@@gorjy9610 good point. the iGPU is strong enough to come a long way, and any dedicated card that would be worth upgrading to will have x16. Or be at least 5 years old, because gimping the interface on cards is a rather recent design.
Great video. I laughed when I saw your 1060 test bench exactly matched my current rig, down to the PSU wattage.
Still rocking a 5600g in my build. APUS are super convenient if your use case requires integrated graphics. Thank you for another great video, Tech YES Man!
Me too in this pc... all this hype for the 8600 & 8700G! the result is a disaster, i wouldnt even pay half the price for them
@@xismxist why wouldn't you pay half the price? its a very good processor...
@@leonardoyi3183 Ok maybe over half after all, tops 200 for 8700G
These G series APU's are only good for two things low power and ITX builds. If there is space for GPU in the PC case you should just use one. These APU's will be great in the future, when you buy a used brand PC (HP, Dell, Fuji), replace the CPU and you good to go, great beginner PC for kids. 4600G and 5600G is already a great option for kids first computer, they can play some games but not AAA titles and later you can add a used GPU.
I just finised tuning my silent 5600G ITX system, it uses 102W external brick PSU and only 1 Noctua fan for cooling. Power consumption from the wall min: 16W, max: 90W, gaming 50W.
I think in the ram hes missing ram speed/capacity , the ram is what limit the cpu , while the capacity definitly reduce the 1% low
Still , its a low watt cost 108p computer , usualy a 1060 will use around 90 watts and the cpu with it will use maybe 50 , so140 , yet this new cpu will use 80 , or even less
Regardless of somewhat bad pricing (at the moment) or some issues here and there, this still made me so happy, this is THE KIND OF CHANGE I want to see more.
No matter how you see it, these integrated graphics just changed the market, a lot of super small ITX cases like that InWin one isn't a "cute gimmick" anymore, you are really able to make "Steam Machines" with these and really portable, the ITX market, the gaming market, and a lot of things just changed with this.
Yes, it's pretty baby steps, but seeing a goddamn integrated graphics behave almost as my old 1050Ti, its genuinely jaw dropping, this will help a lot of people if it keeps going like this.
AMD should have done a
4c/8t
Radeon 780m priced it at 160$ to make any sense in terms of buying it
Yes I thought exactly this!
4 cores? what year is this?!?
6 cores will be the new minimum soon
4 cores? what year is this?!?
6 cores will be the new minimum soon
My "ideal" APU for 7000/8000 series would be 4 cores, the same cache per core as the 7700x(so the same L3 as the 8700G but for 4 cores rather than 8) 16-20CUs, the full 28 PCIe lanes(24 usable) but then CXL support so you can take those 16 lanes that would normally be a GPU, and instead use them for a 3rd channel of RAM, even if its only PCIE 4.0, thats basically 2 extra channels assuming you're running DDR5 4800(31GB/s vs 35GB/s). But assuming you can get DDR5 6200 to 7600 in gear1, you could dynamically choose if you want to dedicate the fast RAM to the GPU, then share the ~31Gbps PCIe RAM pool between the CPU and GPU, or use it all as 1 pool, but a single pool would be hard to coordinate.
Heck having 2 pools means you could get low capacity DIMMs for the fast pool to hit even higher clocks, then high capacity assault DIMMs for the slow pool. 16GB of fast RAM is cheap, but 16GB shared between CPU and GPU is not enough, even at 800p(i have several APUs and 16GB seems to only work properly for the steamdeck) and getting 2 sticks of fast RAM+2 sticks of slow but dense RAM, might 1: be cheaper 2:give you more RAM in total and 3:give you more total bandwidth.
@protonrecuva6717 They mixed the generations in the 7xxx line. The 7840 and 7940 are much better 7xxm chipset equivalent to the 8600/8700G. Rather than the older 6xxm in the 7735
Used price performance just can't be beaten
Even a new budget CPU+GPU combo leaves the 8700G in the dust.
Yeah a 4core zen4c with 780m igpu at $100 is much worth it
Yeah building the new ryzen apu is not worth it still. bettter go with i3 12100f and a gtx 1060 used or maybe gtx 1650 it's still solid combo for entry level gaming in terms of price and performance. Building a new ryzen APU's is ridiculously not worth it at all, atleast for now.
Depends on the location, in my area there are alternatively gifted people still trying to sell used 1060s for 300 euros and up.
@@KimBoKastekniv47 So would a several years old 50 dollar build i did with i5 3470 + HD7970
you have not been getting screwed by the youtube algorithm this is the first video that's really interesting of yours ive seen on the youtube homepage for about 6-12 months
youtube algorithm fkn with you. think you have to make some shorts for them to recommend you
bro.. this isnt normal, how the F you still dont hit the 1 m subs yet!?!
you are one of the best quality and sympathy tech guy on my youtube
are you spreading your work on social media everywhere else?
Yeah, I can't see your videos until now. Its been strange. I am glad you did this review. I still think 900p to 720p would be a great handheld cpu. Love your channel! I'm going to add the bell notification.
The tests were done with 3200mhz RAM? That's quite an unconventional approach to an APU. The results don't surprise me.
Double that for the effective rate. The results are about as good as they can be with high speed DDR5 (which I wouldn't even assume for a cheapo-APU build).
@@PAcifistiYes, 3200mhz x 2 = 6400 MT/s which is to be expected and could only be beat with lpddr5x memory which desktop chips don't even support
@@PAcifisti Thats not true, with fixing the subtimings you usually get like 20-30% more performance.
Hey Brian which systems sell better, windows 10 or windows 11?
Thank you for looking into this. Shows what the performance is currently on these APUs. Shows the shift at least in that the price to performance for what is now older hardware honestly being better in the long run rather than getting these newer Ryzen APUs. Which to be fair, even most Ryzen AM4 platform with a dedicated GPU like a RX6600 or RX5700 would be a great build for a long time to come as well when it comes to price to performance right now.
I would like to know more about the encoding on the entire Ryzen APU lineup though. I'm surprised that these newer APUs don't have any encoding as you say. Does the RDNA APUs not have encoders? Do the Vega APUs not have encoders as well?
I honestly just like to know this cause of they don't than man I'm happy I never invested into AMD APUs cause I definitely need encoding. Yet, I'm also sad cause I would love to have an AMD capable solution similar to Intel's Quicksync which I've used for a while now. I could be completely wrong and turns out that maybe these AMD APUs do support encoding like maybe the Vega APUs. I just don't see a lot of information on any of this kind of stuff. If anybody has info on this or better yet experience with this, I would greatly appreciate any info on topics like encoding with APUs.
8000 series APU does have hardware encoder and decoder. It has the same video hardware acceleration as in RX 7000 series GPU. Whether or not an application took advantage of it is another thing, but afaik, Premiere Pro does support hardware decoding and encoding acceleration from all vendors, including AMD. Either the support inside Premiere Pro for AMD is not good or maybe there are some other bottlenecks preventing it to perform optimally.
I mean functionally it just doesn't work properly... premiere pro was having issues utilizing it properly, and AMD doesn't even offer relive to use for desktop recording... I mean it technically could be there, but functionally it just isnt...
@@techyescity And functionally you're just not a very good reviewer mate. Stick to used builds. Talk to the vendor before spreading misinformation, like Gamer's Nexus did.
You could've left better constructive criticism instead of going all out to be disrespectful to the guy like he's Linus or something. Functionally, you're a shitty person. Stay lonely, dude.
Imagine if they gave us a 8900G with 14-16CU's. Or an 8700G with an extra 32-64MB of shared "V-Cache" for both the cpu and gpu to use.
gotta save something for the 9000 series refresh
CUs don't help much, as long as you're bottlenecked by memory. That was the same with 2200G vs 2400G. Cache can and will help though!
Wouldnt be that wierd for them to release 8700G3D would boost bowth GPU and CPU performance in gaming. This CPU really needs that extra 16MB of cache + 3D V-Cache.
Yeah, for what? 500usd?6?700usd?
@@badaoe3stratsonly130 Yeah, the 9000 series will be Ryzen 5 with RDNA 3.5, and will be much faster than these. Probably 2025 for desktop parts.
iit has been a long time since i've seen one of your videos glad you popped up in my recommended.
I love how TYC is the only youtuber giving us the information we really want to know on these new apus
Side note, if you somehow manage to get your hands on the intel 164u processor (its the one with the lowest powerdraw, about 9-15w and turbo 30w rather than the ryzen processors which are "15w" but turbo to 50W+) that would be really interesting. N100/N300 also works
I cant wait, in 2-3 years we might get a 5-9w "pi zero" but x86 and 8600g in performance, but thats being optimistic
I wish you compared performance with the previous 5700G iGPU instead of the i7.
I'll give some slack to Brian on this one, he probably just doesn't have one. He's not really a tech reviewer, this channel is mostly about used parts and bargain hunting. Hence him comparing these parts to a used GPU from 2016.
Yeah, no problem. I enjoy this channel because of old parts when he reviews 10$ 16 cores Xeons.
Being said, I have a 5700G apu and the move to DDR5 was the game changer.
@@GeorgePerakisand the GTX 1060 and 1650 are still extremely popular. Not as newly bought cards, but as cards people have in their systems.
@@GeorgePerakis what's sad is that even those used parts from eight years ago still outperform this new and expensive APU.
What ram speed and timings did you use for the amd? Since there is a performance disparity with those apu's.
You got this right mate. I need something right now to use now and planning to add in a GPU later and this 8600G makes so much sense to me. Great video!
Thank you very much!!!Another" VS" experiment.
Strange, seen quite a few videos of 7840h/hs getting better/closer results when comparing to a 1060.
How is that possible when the 8700g should be unlimited by power/cooling compared to a 7840h?
Brian, I have a question: Do you still have, and use, the Asrock B650 Live Mixer motherboard? And if so, how has your experience with it been? Is there any chance you could include it in an upcoming video and maybe do an updated report on it? Maybe compare the B650 Pro RS to the Live Mixer? Thank you, greetings from frozen Alaska, don't let yer meat loaf.
OH, and as far as these new APUs, hard pass from me. With the 7600/7700 having basic video for setup and troubleshooting. These APUs are a bit pointless. Just my 2¢
EARLY❤ Loving the Vids lately btw (I always enjoy them, just just mentioning they been great lately)
i remember meeting you on dota quite a while back! you storm spirit i think? anyway love the videos! especially on something as important as this
I currently have 2 pc's with a r7 5700g and they go over the 80 fps in lows 1080p, now I am willing to spend those couple extra bucks for the 8700g and just slap a 4060, Thank you for your video.
Refresh, Refresh and then refresh again! I hit refresh in UA-cam quite often. Without doing this I find I would have missed all the content I was waiting for.
ETA Prime tested the 8700G with 7200 Mts RAM and the got around 8 frames average faster than the 6200 Mts RAM.
8 fps at what point?
8 fps when you only get 20 means 40% more and can make the difference between unplayable stutter and sort of playable.
8 fps when you already have 150 is 5% and won't even be noticeable.
@@HappyBeezerStudiosIt'll give you a lil extra avg fps, but the real difference is in the 0.1% and 0.01% lows.
At half the price (of $230/$330) this APU's would actually make sense. At the current prices absolutly nobody will buy them.
I'd love to see how x99 xeons are holding up in 2024, especially the ones that use DDR3, I've got a metric butt-ton of regecc that I'd love to flip in rigs but uncertain of the performance of those ddr3 chips like the 2629 V3, 2678 V3, 2649 V3. Never get to see reviews on them especially in modern games
I love the real life comparisons Tech Yes provides compared to the other UA-camrs. Idle wattage, productivity performance, value, used GPU comparison, video encoders; all topics near and dear to my interests.
Thanks for this well done video. Keep up the great work.
Fun fact: according to userbenchmark website, the 780m which the 8700g got has the same total score has the RX 6400 gpu and this little fella can come in a single slot LP so... At least it gives an alternative for those who likes ssf itx builds well... Theoretically I didn't tested it out. Great video as always, Brian!
UserBenchmark is worthless and shouldn't be looked at.
@@Megalomaniakaal I would quote Morpheus on this: "There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path.".
It's not exactly surprising since 6400 is such a turd. Worse architecture and same amount of CU's. Its only upside vs the 780m is the dedicated VRAM. It's a low end laptop GPU put into a separate card.
Can the IGPU be overclocked in those chips? I wonder if it makes much of a difference.
The Yes man giving us the test that we really needed. Thank you Sir.
Which Adrenaline driver did you use? The new 24.1.1 has the new features that almost double FPS for these chips along with rx7000 and rx6000.
Now that is an interesting test. Can the new APU be a complete platform replacement for one of the (still) most popular graphics cards.
And totally fair testing the 8600G with slightly lower RAM/IF clocks. That is what your chip can handle, so it will be a decent example of what people can expect from retail units.
But one question is what kind of test the Premiere render was. Some integrated benchmark or a self chosen video? And what target codec was used?
Question. What about allacking PC Ram Memory for the Built-in GPU to be used. I was thinking about my rig that has 32 GB Ram. Would allowing the built-in GPU to use some of that GB RAM>??? Would that make a difference.
if i use r5 8600g with rx 6800xt how do you think it'll perform? i know thats an odd question but i need answers bro. can it be as good as 7500f?
Cpu performance is gimped like with the 5700g in some games performances will be on the line of the Zen 3 - 5000 series cpus.
HI BRO , I AM A FAN OF YOUR UNDERVOLTING ACTION , CAN U UNDERVOLT 87OOG TO 70 WATT (WALL POWER CONSUMPTION) BUT WITH PERFORMANCE EQUAL TO 7840U ALSO AT 70 WATT WALL ?
I'm looking to build/buy a SFF PC for portability. Building a PC using the 8700G would come in at about the same price as a Minisforum HX100G (in my country), which sports a Ryzen7 7840HS and Rx 6650M. The Minisforum PC should be significantly more powerful, and a lot smaller. Any downside for going with the Minisforum?
Do you have an x670 or x670e you could test these on? just to see if a GPU would be gimped the same way if you put it in the lower, chipset controlled PCI slots instead of the top slot.... I haven't heard anyone bring this up, and it just might be a solution to not really being able to upgrade to a GPU down the road..... it wouldn't be in pcie 5.0 but no GPU runs in 5.0 now except the Intel cards, but there wouldn't be ANY difference between ANY card running in either 4 or 5 .... well MAYBE the 4090, but I really don't think PCIe4.0 is saturated enough to need anymore throughput than it offers...
thx for the video! I'm still happy on my 5600G but I was curious if there are any significant differences yet. Only in price it seems, haha.
These are essentially laptop chip leftovers, which means that they weren't designed for the desktop market, and it shows. This power was impressive back at the start of 2022 when the 6900 HX came out, but now that we're all waiting for a delayed strix point/strix halo, it's barely worth considering. The issue here is that the interest for APUs comes from graphics performance, not CPU performance. I'm not spending 320$ on an 8 core APU for it's zen 4 full speed core CPU, I'd get an x3d if that were the case. When it comes to the desktop market, just give us the most compact 6 core CPU you can (zen c cores or die shrunken zen 2 cores), and as many CU's as you can possibly fit on the package.
6:45 the 780M has all a H264, H265 and an AV1 encoder that is even a tad faster than Nvidias, so you might wanna go back and check again.
Would it be possible to see revisit of 7900XTX? I want to buy 4k 144hz monitor and don't care about Ray Tracing and DLSS stuff, just want to play 4k native. I like the way you test stuff.
Is this a actual thing for improving older systems
Why not just test the 1060 and the 1650 super in the 8700G system? That way you can directly test iGPU vs the dedicated GPUs without having a different CPU affect the numbers. An even better dedicated GPU to test would be the 1650 non super because it was the last Nvidia GPU that could be powered solely from PCIe bus power.
Exactly. It's a meaningless comparison. Having different Variables in comparison benchmarking shows a lack of technical comprehension.
@@CameraObscure it's fine so long as the test makes all of the different variables clear and obvious, and this test passes that test. all comparisons are informative, sorry this one wasn't comparing what you wanted though.
i think the goal of the comparison was wehter it is worth replacing your older system (CPU and GPU) with the APU.
If you already spend money for the 8700G, why would you keep your old GPU instead of selling it. And if you have the money to not rely on the resell value to get the new APU, you can still resell it and get a stronger CPU + GPU combo.
I'm for example are exactly in that situation. Aging platform that needs an upgrade, and the test has shown that the APU is not better than keeping my old GPU and just get a new CPU/MB/RAM upgrade.
So instead of the "is the iGPU faster than the old dGPU", the test was "is it worth replacing your old CPU + GPU with the APU"
@@CameraObscure being unable to see the benefits of Having different Variables in comparison benchmarking shows a wider lack of technical comprehension.
How about overclock?
APU would be awesome to boost CPU overall performance in terms of big data transfers or encoding / decoding
BUT it still needs to be a chomky CPU overall + too small '3d cache' and overall thermals of 'x3d' chiplets
Love your videos man
What ram did you use
good progress but I could still pair up a 6 core cpu with an older gtx970 or 980 for less than half the price. You use a 1650 in the benchmark but but 970 can be had from anywhere at mates rates ATM.
Yeah but the 8600G as a cpu is one of the fastest hexcores around, the average GTX 970 is going on 10 years old and on death's doorstep, and the AM5 platform has probably at least three more years of support ahead of it. That's just not a fair comparison.
What system(s) were the dGPUs tested on? Did i missed that?
Back with the 5600G/5700G 3D Performance scaled quite much with memory bandwith. Is this the case for the 8600/8700 as well, as they are a monolithic design and it seems some aleady managed go get Ramspeeds of DDR-10600. It might be required to re-test as soon as better DDR5 are available ?
So, it's more like a 1050ti?
I apologize, but what was the speed on the memory, and is it possible to tweak?
is like a gtx 1650
I think my comment got deleted? Not sure, but these do have encoeders. Storage Review was able to use the GPU to do hardware transcoding in their review. Wikipedia has a chart shoring that Phoenix APU's have the same encoder as Navi3. Maybe it was a software issue?
It's weird that you couldn't use the APU's encoding capabilities when it's clearly stated on their website that these things can encode h264, h265 and AV1 up to 4320p60 8/10bpc. Probably early software issue? I dunno. Anyway, thanks for the video!
Yeah people have already verified that the 8X000G series can be used for transcoding in Jellyfin. It must have been whatever capture software he uses.
Would 64 GB make any difference to performance on an APU?
I bought a R5 5600g a year ago for $120. It was fine for non-gaming. I even got ROCm working for AI stuff. Picked up a new RTX 3060 12 GB for $270. Now I can flight Sim and do productivity and creator work for pretty cheap. I don't think I'll spend more money on AM4, unless an amazing deal drops in my lap.
Been trying to find a Thin & Lite rocking the 780m here in the UK but all the Chips so far come with a dedicated GPU as well. Total madness.
my question is well if the apu's are better on power consumption whats their hash rate?
so content suggestion.. how do the AMD 8x00G CPUs perfrom with the wraith spire and the iceman coolers?
Will there be a 5700x3d review coming up, Mr. Tech yes city?
Best 8700g review so far but you can add 5600g gt 1030 and gtx 1050
yes 5600g / 5700g comparisosn please
the gt 1030 is basically a vega 8, so just the 5600g, that has that vega 8
How much ram did you allocate to the GPU in the Bios?
I want to add - I'm subscribed and haven't seen one of your videos in my feed for about a month. UA-cam is weird.
I think AMD should bring us a 6-core APU with the best iGPU they can (12+ CU's) since that would make sense for budget gamers and those building compact builds. I feel like there are no games that require 8 high-tier CPU cores to fully saturate 12 CU's on the GPU side. Sure, I get that there is an argument to be made that you might want a top-tier CPU for future GPU upgrades, but at the same time, they are happy to cut CPU cache which already reduces that future-proofing potential.
Used your discount code. Thanks!
Why don't these APUS have hardware graphics acceleration? Intel has quicksycn, that part is not present or is it due to drivers???
Does the product key for windows mean i have to download windows as a. Torrent? Then use the key to activate it?
Hey there, what ram speed did you use for this test ?
listed 3200mhz... I don't know why.....
Wait what? these apus doesn't have hardware video encoders? Let's hope it's just an early driver issue if not this ridiculous!
No. This is not accurate. They do. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_Core_Next These are just Phoenix Mobile CPU's on a Desktop platform. There was already a review showing using the 8700G to do transcoding on Jellyfin.
@@paulbeers4105 yes the hardware is there, i forgot that AMD disables the recording option in the Radeon Software for APUs. Either use OBS or modded drivers.
So researching more on the topic, technically they do, it's just after doing my rounds of testing, functionally I just think they don't. It's like AMD doesn't want one of the best features of the APU to be utilized properly (without other suggestions...).
They have hardware encoding, it's an error made by this reviewer
brother, is the OEM CD KEY still good men.
Do you know if these igps have av1 encoding
For the current pricepoint those APUs make no sense except in some very niche situations.
Your thinking makes now sense, cause this level of gpu performance costs at least $100 alone! LOOL
I have the GTX 1060 and it plays very well, but a APU approach this very impressive. This is the start of the hybrid cpus. Even the latest 14series by Intel not even close. It does all this at a much lower power.
This is pretty neat at the moment, if you want to slowly build up a rig with ddr5 indeed, since you can save up a bit on gpu money for later.
any updates on the $100 PC challenge??
The fact these can be used in such tiny cases (because no need for dedicated GPI space) is worth it.
I do not really need this as I have 3080 but its real cool how far we've come since Intel iGPU and now APU.
Yeah, SFF is pretty much where they shine. Stronger than a used GT 1030 or GTX 1650 or whatever they produce in low profile.
I think in new games like Alen wake or avatar IGPU works better because of new requirements. Is Fsr3 fg work in these IGPUs ?
Yes
Can you make a video about ryzen 5 8500g? It's one of the cheapest apu from the 8000 apu series.
Dude I am more than happy with my Ryzen 7 5700X paired with my Nvidia RTX 3060 12GB (MSI Gaming X) version. Running 16GB of 3200 MHz ram which was plug and play and easily able to enable XMP in the bios. I know a few years down the road I will probably need to upgrade. By then maybe I'll get a 5000 series Nvidia card and the next gen AMD Ryzen chip.
especially with DLSS, FSR and all the unofficial implementions of FSR3. There's life in the 3060 yet. 😊
tech yes love this channel
I didn't understand why AMD didn't provide 16 CUs...........
I just don't get why put in such a powerful igpu in a apu in the price range where people should just buy an actual gpu, instead. We need a Ryzen 3 or 5 with a 780m, not a Ryzen 7.
Why didn't you compare the APU's performance to a AMD's RX 580 or some other AMD product as well.
perhaps because no one would upgrade from those to these? or perhaps for how the market favoring nvidia is?
perhaps he can do another video doing that comparison
this is another AMD product that led me to believe, that MOST of AMD supporters are HYPE TRAIN "commuters". i remember seeing some youtuber i think it was like "gamer meld" and others that even claimed that the 8000G would easily beat a desktop GTX 1650 or 1660. some even said the 8600G iGPU beats 1660 Ti. and i read somewhere in the internet , article that have people who have benchmarked it, it turns out it cant even beat the old GTX 1080. it is merely equivalent to like 1050 ti or something.
and to make it worse, all those AMD HYPERS(probably under AMD's payroll like those devs in linux scene) DID NOT MENTION ANYTHING about the AWFUL PCI LANE configs of the 8000G APU. forget about using multiple superfast SSD. it has PCIE lanes even worse than laptop i think. ooooooh HYPERS. you see those hypers recently go "AMD WON!" simply from announcement of claim made by AMD about their FUTURE product that nobody yet ever get to test. its just crazy. by any respect.
well, there is this or intel igpu, your complains are pointless after vega 8 that still kicks intels best
man, stop complaining
I think we will begin to observe significant performance advancements in the few next generation. APU's
I've always been curious, how into Dota are you? 😀
Do you play ranked? Do you follow the Esports scene?
I hope that with driver updates performance and consumption improve
This has been most useful comparison for APU's. ❤❤❤❤❤❤. There is no bad product, just bad price. Even with high tax where I am, at 400€ is too much. Will get 7600 for 250, and 140-170 for used gpu like 1080 ti/ or invest around 500€ for 4060 ti 16gb. So much more performance, in small-ish case like COOLERMASTER MasterBox Q300L.
So the 7 year old 7700k+1060 are more efficient in gaming and idling than the 8700g?
any way to drop the idle wattage?
65w idle is insane
Ryzen Z1 Extreme Handhelds like the Rog Ally or the Lenovo Legion Go also have 12CU, like the 8700G. 90% of the use-cases for the 8600g or 8700g will be covered by these handhelds or will simply be bad choices compared to dGPU options.
APUs are getting better and better. I wonder what they'll be like in 5 years at this rate.
You should use minimum 6000MHZ RAM to get proper performance of the iGPU
Can I use the R5 8500G with the GTX 1060 6GB combined and use only the GTX 1060 as a GPU without the APU of the CPU? If yes, will there be a bottleneck?
yes you can, but if your really want no "bottleneck" you should use a way worse cpu like an i5 3000 or 5000 series
im still pretty impressed by the performance of the 1060 in 2024. My first gaming pc ran a a10 6800k which i thought was so good at the time, although nothing compared to any modern day APU.