Why Gothic Knights Suck!
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- I made this video because a bunch of people think that gothic knights are good. I explain why they suck! Enjoy!
If someone states that Gothic Knights are good, link this video to them
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It's a shame cause the gothic knights definitely look coolest
yeah for sure!
I used them for 2 years and this video showed me why I kept losing as HRE
LMAO
Thats why you don't use them
*No Gothic Knights allowed*
@@jaypea30 but they look nice
I mean if you really wanna use them just get one as a flanking force
nice vid apollo but the gothic knights have sick armour
yeah they do!
ajay caruana They just cant use it really well.
***** Thats weird. Probably just a glitch
Ajay caruana they don't have suck armour
+Jack Saville it is pretty cool
I cannot believe the game made Gothic Knights so weak compared on how they should be. First of Gothic armor was the best armor in the world of the time and I would dare to say the top three best metal armors of all time. Light, very strong thanks to fluting and ridges that adds the strength to the steel with out making it thicker, and they are knights so they are more than likely have heat treated steel that is fully hardened on top of that. Arrows are nothing to that armor in real life.
The other thing is that two handed swords are amazing weapons and can still defeat a man with a shield with out too much trouble. Both have ups and downs but a sword like that can simply fined it's way around the shield. The game is good but a bit flawed.
+Landsknecht 86 The unit itself is good, its just the two-handed weapon glitch that makes them suck
Theo Fullerton There is a glitch?
Also if I remember right they had the foot Gothic Knights in the first Medieval Total War so bad ass, those guys beat just about everything around them short from a cavalry charge, and arrows did almost nothing to them too.
Landsknecht 86 There's something called the "Two-Handed glitch" where basically most units with two handed weapons, they attack slower than units with one handed weapons, so they are blocking more than they are attacking. They fixed this in the kingdom expansion backs but in vanilla they suck
Theo Fullerton I just thought that the Gothic Knights were going to be so bad ass as they were in the first Medieval Total War. I mean they are Knights trained sens childhood.
If anyone will read any real history as well as any real historical battles and documents you will fiend that Knights were very good warriors and that they are underrated in our history/media.
Also the fact that they have Gothic armor should protect them very, very well.
Nice to see someone else who remembers and knows about the Gothic Foot knights in the original MTW. Looked at their stats from some unit guides and tested them out and yeah, they were really badass and more then made up for their slow speed and smaller unit size with their incredible stats. A shame that the DGK are so much weaker in comparison to other units unlike their original counterpart.
If medieval II were more realistic they would probably be #1
The armor itself was just perfect, light and strong and doesn't restrict movement as much as the other plate armors did, normal arrows would bounce off only crossbows would have a chance against them.
not even crossbows only guns
Duchy of Mecklenburg-Schwerin Is there much historical showing for the teutonic knights being very op? I mean, I don't think the knightly order had any standardized sets of armour or weapons, or that their equipment or skills would have been any better than other knightly orders? On top of that the Teutonic knights in-game are of an earlier period than the gothic armour. Maybe some Teutonic order knights did use gothic armour in the real late medieval period though? I would agree that in-game their visual appearance is the most badass though. Sadly I'd guess those winged great helms probably weren't very common in real history either.
@@sosig6445 well there really was no well made plate armor that restricted movement
Ringo
The successes of the teutonic order was not because of their equipment but rather because of they’re better disciplined rank structures and organisation which allowed them to be much more successful than their Polish counterparts.
I've found that Units like Varangian Guard and English /noble/ portugese knights seem to have less of a problem with the two handed glitch
Those are the units that wield the poleaxe, right?
@@jackdaone6469 yes
I use them in most of my battles as can verified in my sttreams and do very good. Varangians are my favorites
that's because their weapons have armour piercing on them, total game-changer.
Now mounted gothic knights do also have AP, but then they have lower attack with their 1H mace than the 2-handed troops you mentioned AND they don't have a shield so still don't do that great.
@@likliklik9515the dismounted 2 handed gothic nights also have AP?
maybe some like to pay more for armor polishing :)
They might have lost in combat, but they surely were victors in grace of their harness!
Defeats mean nothing for truly Chivalrious Knights (except they mean, probably, pretty much, everything)
I like how the ultimate evolution of plate armored knights suck balls in this game.
Vanilla MTW2 unit balance is just broken.
While playing on Total war kingdoms I was testing who was better with forlorn hope, Gothic knights, and zweihanders while being against dismounted Feudal knights. Surprisingly they (2h guys) won but Forlorn Hope took the least amount of casualties with personally I find Forlorn Hope better. Also their armor upgrade looks sick
I know this is old but the "bug" that caused this was removed in Kingdoms
@@Dr.CaveCurinas Those twohanded cunts sure as hell shredded through my teutonic knights
In reality, the Gothic knights armor was good enough they didn't need Shields. The game doesn't seem to give them high enough defence points.
Also their armor was arrow proof.
You sould use all two handed weapon units in loose formation. They will easily overpower any one handed weapon unit.
@hellavadell but are they bolt crossbow proof?
@@derekyohan1444 Yes, in fact some particularly late period armor was even bulletproof to a limited degree, armor was damn good. It was more economics and growing army sizes that ended the dominance of personal armor rather than the armor being defeated. Obviously an arrow or bolt hitting where the armor isn't is going to fuck you up though, and with enough projectiles flying, some are practically guaranteed to find some gap or weak point.
I disagree
A little piece of advise for anyone who doesn't know: Darthmod Medieval II, fixes this issue about 2 handers, Darth's very good at properly balancing total war games. Stainless Steel 6.4 is very good also, but I pick Darth because it doesn't crash, SS crashes a lot for me (and I have a £2,000 PC as of Aug 2020, so a new and powerful rig) I recommend Darthmod for its stability and as being the vanilla game essentially, but with major bug fixes and improvements. For instance, pikemen actually hold onto their pikes (never switch to their short swords) and so actually function as pikes.
how about vanilla kingdoms EMF ?
Late to the party, but JLMP's vanilla kingdoms is a very nice mod that also fixes pikemen bug, musketeers, a lot of units ( including gothic knights).
Thank you for the hint
hmmm I still don't believe you, I think they are great, I get 1000 of kills ez
It's a shock infantry, so you should use them as cavalry and use their charge bonus and never let them be alone against enemy.
The problem with that, is you can just use you know, Cavalry, and they would ussualy do a better role in that regard.
Of course with something like Scots that have like 2 cav units sure, but even then Mailed Knights do a resonable job even if its the only thing you have.
@@thattonnatoguywithafez8246 Units with Shield always win prolonged combats vs no 1H/2H no shield. You should never use 2H trrops for long combat. Also use 2H in loose formation so they can encirle enemy and debuff morale.
2H swords and 3-4 meter pikes need some space you know...
Realistically, they should be better.
Today on my english class i had to explain the meaning of the word Salty, guess what video i was looking for :v
He decides to rub it in by getting the Feudal Knights to just walk away from the routed dismounted Gothic Knights.
Just not worth it, like he said.
Ouch!
Feel the burn!
dismounted feudal and chivalric knights were SOOOOO damn strong
I hate how they all clash then 70% of the army steps back and watches
Because battles aren't bar brawls.
@Josepene Espinili
Yeah cause they have swords but in fights they fight tight to not get enemy's inside there army and have you heard of phalanx formations?
@@derekyohan1444 Are you really going to mock my name first?
@Joeven espineli well my bad but I'm angered of your logic
@@derekyohan1444 I can't do anything about that, people have differing beliefs, perspectives, and eccentricities, I won't force anyone my own. But as a rebuttal to your mocking, I shall call you, Derelict Yahoo.
It's a shame that with a unit like that they are broken. Although from reading the comments it seems that the GK's are fixed in the expansion pack and are fixed in stainless steel.
Apollo is so salty in this video.
Considering how annoying and know it ytcommebters get... I dont blame him.
@The onderoinian sarcasm?
I know I'm late, but Gothic Knights are a support/shock unit, just like all two handers.
They are very expensive for a support unit. I like my support infantry cheap as most of my money will be going into my cavalry and frontline infantry. Support units, to me, should be strong enough to take care of themselves and expendable enough not to cripple the entire army at their loss.
That sarcasm though Apollo. XD
do you still watch him?
Didn't vanilla gothic knights do well against the later knights that were more reliant on armor?
Keep up the good work bro. I really enjoy your commentaries
thanks man!
ap was a great skill that makes weaker units able to kill other well armored units like dfk but it got nerfed after the 1.2 or 1.3 versions thats why units with that skill are sucks like gothics and janissaries even it efected veneterian heavy inf if you try them in 1.0 or 1.1 versions of m2t you can easly understand why so much people say that they are great because they were able to defeat conquristadores (sorry for bad english :)
also sword and board units defensive skill is absurbly high. The best two handers only have a melee defensive skill that caps out 5 while dismounted feudal knights which are a common mid game sword and board armed unit has a starting defensive skill of 8 and this in addition to both their high armour and shield rating.
On the stainless Stell mod they are Monster. But on vanilla game units without shields are all ducks xD
true, I rather play with the SS mod.
If ca go to reality with the gothic knights
Are much stronger
Impossible to a arrow penetrate a gothic armor
@Anne Isopod lol what
See videos
Arrows cant penetrate late plate armor
@Anne Isopod Warbow's with bodkin tips had trouble penetrating chainmail and gambeson.
It couldn't penetrate plate armor.
No way in hell could it penetrate gothic or italian plate armors.
@The Cornfield It's not a ridiculous claim, missiles simply couldn't penetrate plate armour.
Brilliant video series Apollo, and again Awesome commentary and explanation!!!
thanks man!
It's all late periode units. Jannisary heavy infantry, Jannisary archers and Gothic knights. HI Pirate :D
The gothic knights suffer from a glitchy charge animation, but their attack and defense animations are alright (or perform similar to swordsmen with the same stats) Problem is they have stats of 14 14 while feudals have 13 22, so there is no contest.
Gothic Knights are use for charging.
I think they are meant to help hold the mainline, protect the archers and flank on the sides to help collapse the enemy's attack. While spear men are meant to hold the main enemy force. And of course cavalry is meant to stop enemy cavalry and strike from the rear to finish the unit. But this game is buggy, broken, unbalance and we all still love it.
I don't think so. Those Two-Handers are meant to be heavy battle infantry with low protection against arrows (no shields) but great effectiveness in melee combat (where they suck however which makes them useless).
To be honest I think the forlorn hope is one of the most underrated units in the game and personally I choose forlorn hope over goths
Well the way with how two handlers should be used is by flanking there opponent rather than charging by themselves so that was the mistake there
Bro, just go to data folder, unit text file and give them 2 hit points
This need to be a UNIT MOD some how. this needs to be fixed. maybe have the Gothic Knights use one hand to a "two handed" sword and some kind of shied to fit their style. hahaha just and idea.
+Simon Bourdin
oh yeah that makes perfect sense thank you so much for that knowledge mann; so really the designers should've patched or someone modded this Unit's stats so it would be buff up to all units if not most. Still keep the same price & weapons though... just have it be a lot more deadly & a greater effective Unit to restore closer to the historical accuracy. I truly Agree with this comment & believe you've did some research on it. In History that unit was one of a most deadliest knights ever dispatched and should be more respected as so.
+Simon Bourdin There Kind of like medieval Heavy Tanks and should be.
+Simon Bourdin yeah probably. Balance is pretty much key to it.
Out of curiosity, are 2-handed units good in siege in the expansions? I know they fixed the 2-handed bug, and while they'd probably still suffer in the field, I'm curious how they do in expansion shields.
They didn't "fix" the 2-hander glitch as much as they buffed 2-handers and weakened sword and shield infantry, which still helped a lot.
It depends where you are using the in the siege. Taking the walls and attacking choke points will always end badly for all units. But they do better at crushing armoured foes, and get them in the courtyard and they have the freedom to flank.
The cavalry Gothic Knights are pretty much invincible in Stainless Steel, and the dismounted ones are only beaten by any high end AP inf such as Pollaxes or Halberds.
Another great commentary but its za shame about 2h glitch but atleast in Teutonic expansion the HRE are one of the most powerful factions
yeah very true
Disregarding price and the Two-handed glitch, they have really shitty morale, also in terms of defense and attack, they are beat by Venetian Heavy Infantry and Dis. Conquistadors.
Its worth pointing out they fixed the glitch in Kingdoms, which makes them much better.
are there any mods that fix vanilla medieval 2? I'd enjoy it waaaaayyy more if it were more playable
nise job bud sick of hearing there the greatest aswell but i have to admit that just look so slick!
Nice. But maybe the gothic Knights were supposed to be relied on reinforcements from cavalry or at least more infantry. I think they were supposed to be the battle line whose main purpose would be to hold the line while rest of the force would try to flank or something like that (hence more blocks than attacks). I'm by no means a medieval warfare expert, or even proficient at this game, but given than my Knights block more than they attack, they are more aptly used as tanks (so more enemy units are targeting them) while the bulk of my forces are killing weaker units only to circle and finish the rest of them off.
People call it a glitch but I thought about it and...
It must be really hard to wave a big fucking sword around like a parade baton
This means the peasants are the best yes!!!!!!
two handed is Only cost worthy against cav
Holy Roman Empire is good all round others have slight benefits to other units Venice has some of the best hand to hand units
Dont all 2 handers suck in m2tw? Which is annoying cuz they look sick
If you play 1.1 or 1.2 patch they do awesome actually. Always beat feudal knights and all the 2 handed units in the game for me
Any two-handed unit in this game pretty much blow chunks. The highlander nobles and Janissaries both also get destroyed against any standard dismounted feudal knights.
Does the 2 handed glitch happen in third age total war?
Medievel 2 kinda makes me think no developer ever played one battle during testing.
yeah, the two handed bug is absurd... how could they not see it, at least they fixed it in kingdoms
guys just go to your files and give gothic knights unit "4 hit points " so they are harder to kill...
When I saw someone whit Gothic Knights I already know that he is noob.
Thiago Vor Maybe he wants to use a subpar army that he finds cool. He might have known it was a subpar choice.
And when he uses Gothic Knights, Zwei-handed and Forlon Hope. What do you think??
Who is watching this in 29.9.2017?
gothic knights are good do you know why,first you are using gck wronge your sopposed to flank the enemy'2 its a game,3they are sopport unit's and I almost ansubscribe.
I hope you are joking.
I think its hard to judge (at least for the foot soldiers) based on a vid where you compare them to onehanded infantery. It goes with all the two handed units in the game, no matter what they are, let it be Gothic knights, Zweihander, Jannissary, Halberdiers, twohanded Axemen etc. If you let them fight one on one vs a simple infantery unit such as these feudal knights who have one handed weapons, they will get destroyed because they all have that blocking bug which makes them shit ass slow. So just because of that to say that "gothic knights suck" I find a bit vague, because the other two handed units suck equally in this game. With the cav however I totally agree
I agree only except the Gothic Knights mounted versions does not have a shield so that kind of negates their defense plus I believe they’re shock cavalry not “Melee Cavalry”. I believe you got to look at this way those two handed units and the French Lancers French Gendarmes and Gothic knights are “Late Period” units this is around the time “Pike and shot” formations became of existence. The two handers jobs were to break up pike formations, flank and dismantle cavalry units as well. That’s just my take on it so that begs the question why are we pitting Late Period units against High and Early Period units when the latter two were heavily focused on sword and shield combat?
@@Nunceyactually it simply is that the game doesn't account for the fact they didn't have a shield because their armour was better than shield, thus making shielded units better
i dont even play this game anymore but for some reason my brain consists of 90 percent total war strategy
I never really bother going for the expensive units that are hard to replace because you need high quality forts to get them. Usually i just use armies which have somewhat small numbers of infantry, large numbers of cavalry and crossbowmen or if there are no crossbowmen, then either archers or horse archers. I just see little to no point in wasting money to higher tier units that cost a lot to get and upkeep.
the sarcasm is priceless! !
That's why you get the Retrofit mod which contains the two handed fix from the Kingdoms expansion.
ALAN LIGHT CAV THE BEST UNIT AND IM NOT SAYING THAT CUZ THEY HAVE MY NAME IN THEIR NAME ( THE MINDFUCKER).
Does that apply to the Gotland unit?
Sad HRE noises
thankfully theres a darthmod of this game so it fixes the "bug" its really just a balancing issue to stop two handers being overpowered, but even with the darthmod fixes theyre not over powered because they have less missile and melee defence
i wish CA hadnt messed with that because without mods the unique faction units are unplayable. and come on everyone plays the HRE for gothic foot knights
Venice has the best unit
Venetian heavy infantry are the complete opposite of Gothic knights, they are glorious.
in fact, the Venetian infantry fighting on the side of The Golden Horde in the battle of Kulikovo field in 1380 completely destroyed the Moscow Grand Duke Dmitry Donskoy, without much hassle
this is just for multiplayer though. In campaign the only cost that matters is upkeep, and the feudal knights are extemely expensive
Who wants this game to be remade with modern graphics but realistic stats (gothic knights crushing and decapitating everything around them), personally I feel the only realistic way you could beat armour was to plan beforehand and choose an environment where armour would do more damage than good (deserts, frozen lakes, hills, muddy bogs).
2 handed units are better than spearmen as anti cav units imo. But even considering that dismounted gothic knights are still terrible. They are worse than dismounted english knights, dismounted noble knights(france), and the verangian guard(Byzantine) despite costing way more money. Basically they suck ass even compared to other 2 handed units so the 2 handed "bug" isn't even relevant as to why they suck so much. (why is it a bug that 1 handed units swing faster and destroy 2 handed guys in a straight up fight this is how it worked irl)
Money doesnt really mean anything.Hell all that money to train gothic nights could be because of their armor costs,or horses cost etc Money doesnt really mean that these guys are gonna roll over the guys that are a few hundred florins cheaper ....Still you would think they are great but its just the way it is ...not all guys that are cool are good .Scottish troops could do better for a cheaper price maybe .The skill has nothing to with money its just to do with recruitment and buying their equipment it seems haha Oh creative assembley how weird you are....
I clicked on this video not knowing that it was about total war, for a second I was like "now listen here matey"
I think people just wanted Gothic Knights to be on the list because they are a unique unit. Unfortunately they are also unique in how bad and expensive they are.
Gothic knights are like cavalry but they are infantry, charge with them on the flanks meanwhile a tanky unit distract them
@@chofa135 But at a price of 810 florins, wouldn't it better to recruit actual cavalry?
@@Uragan00829 of course 🤣
I can't believe anybody would consider these good.
They could be so awesome with their armor and Zweihänder.. ahh too bad.
You say two-handed glitch, does that affect every "Zweihänder"-wielding unit in the game? Like Canons of the Holy Sepulcher in Crusades expansion or Forlorn Hope from the Empire? Are they any good?
Duel-handed axes are all right aren't they? They seem to be...
Would love to see you make a video explaining this further :3
2 handed glitch doesnt affect every two handed unit, just most of them.
Revan Ar-Pharazôn The bug was partially fixed in the kingdoms expansion, so the Canons of the Holy Sepulcher will not be affected too badly. It is much more noticeable in the vanilla game. The only units I know to be relatively unaffected by the bug are halberd units. Does not make up for their got awful stats though.
These is a fix. It is caused by an attack animation that does zero damage. One handed units have this to but it is a shield bash ( or a punch) which does not reset the attack of the weapon. You do need to remove the zero attack animation for both in the fix of two handers become broken in the other direction.
The Gothic Knights have cool looking armor but poor in fighting......if Gothic knights still exist now,they probably will win the most awesome medieval armor in a cosplay competition😂😂😂😂
They are merely white armoring-appears more functional than the suit Henry of Richmond is crowned in- glorifying Renaissance pieces of art? CE 1525 Battle of Pavia determines gen-de-armes battlefield philosophy clearly obsolete.
ua-cam.com/video/5hlIUrd7d1Q/v-deo.html
To watch video through, they could animate them beneath rondel dagger equipment application.
Philosophically the short, one handed mace is meant to knock an opponent off of his mount.
Beneath this sale's pitch, they would be cool to me.
Brave Sir William Thatcher in love, not to mess with the Heart.
-
Fairly, the individual person animated for the show beneath the unit would appear realistically combat responsive.
What makes me shit me pants is that ARROWS do shit to GOTHIC KNIGHTS WEARING FULL FLUTED PLATE! and as well as a FUCKIN SWORD DOES THINGS TO THEM AS WELL!
M2tw was not perfect. Diplomacy was the worst. But it was the best rpg of tw series. Except for generals dont live as we like. You would make your ruler from scratch to an incredible general and king. I loved gaining perks and titles with my generals so much. I hated when they die. Diplomacy sucked. Countries 1/10 strength of mine waging war for no reason. The only way to finish a war is to fully annex them. They never know when to stop. They only know to counterfeit my merchant
It's a form of woke-ism that's in all games. German troops must must be cannon fodder as a rule - Giving Holy Roman Empire ("German" Gothic) troops strong units is waycist.
this bug with animation was fixed in mods millions years ago :)))
Correction
Gothic Knights are poor frontline infantry, which makes sense, because that’s not what they are for.
They do have terrible price for their stats, keep that in mind though.
Use them for shock assault, only if your extremely desperate should you use any shock unit as a common hold the line unit.
Those fetal nights bruv, there hard
Late game units are terribly balanced in general in this game. Not just the full plate armor units that should be way, way tougher than they are, but also units like the pikemen (all of them), or light lancers... The way they behave and the way they are balanced makes it a direct downgrade for you to recruit them instead of sticking to medieval units. It's plainly stupid.
Dismounted they suck but on horseback they are much better, still slightly overpriced, but they can beat both mounted and dismounted feudal knights
So it's because Style over Substance huh? Looks like the Germans look to keeping their armors with no dent or slashes than zweihand the enemy. No wonder I've been burning though my florins and still lose against the Venetians.
Well top 10 unit is crap then. Most overpowered unit in Vanilla MTW2 is hobilars. Cheap as hell like what 300, and they charge 1 shot all units.
goth knights (and all the other two handed infantry) are way better in the kingdoms expansion. Two handed units suck in vanilla because of a bug they never fixed
Thank god someone made this video.Thank you Apollo
fuck it italian city state militia units are fucking amazing for how much they cost. Just upgrade them to heavy chain and they're just about equal to armored sergeants for half the maintenance cost. Plus italian cities generate a metric fuck tone of gold.
CA pls fix...lol who am I kidding they have unfixed bugs in their latest games that have been there since launch.
TO ALL U PEEPS WHO THINKS HOTHICS ARE AWESOME
You dont even have to have the two handed glitch to know they are bad,14 atk and 14 def is just abismal,one more atk than feudals and 7 less def,is like CA didnt care
I disagree there coolness give them a secret buff
Dismounted feudal knights are the most important unit in single player, they're a total game changer. Once you've got your first fortress and started recruiting DFK you just steamroll over everything else.
Also the Creative Assembly did a poor job at balancing units, especially late-game ones. Many of them are not even worth getting because they are either worse or just slightly better than mid-game ones. Feudal knights and dismounted feudal knights are more than enough to beat the campaign.
I think feudal knights and dismounted feudal knights need a nerf. To the point they can still destroy lightly armoured commoner soldiers easily but will struggle against heavily armoured knights. Also I think Feudal Knights should be era locked to Early and High peroid. Once the late Medieval Peroid hits around the start of the 15th century feudal knights and dismounted feudal knights should no longer be recruitable and you are forced to replace them with more 'modern' units
They're the most bad ass looking as well, those helms and mail look sick
No unit of all the army is suck !! If you didn't use them that why they(gothic) lose!!! Use them you win feudal knight lose
realisticly gothic knights should destroy those units
german knights are pretty much the most elite soldiers in the medieval ages
and they have very good armour
Like France, the Holy Roman Empire held its knights in high regard. Gothic plate was developed alongside the Milanese Maximilian plate, and was considered one of the most advanced full plate armours of its time. Henry VIII idolised German knights, and copied their armour in his own jousting design.
I am not sure how realistic it is for them to be armed with Zwei-handers. Such weapons where specialised for cutting through pike formations, and would be unwieldy against other dismounted knights. A mace and shield combo would make more sense, or even a pole-axe.
@@CaptainInvisible1 There are some cases of mounted knights using great swords for reach and if you read the unit card I thin it says that after they were dismounted in battle they fight on foot and make good infantry normally a zweihander was used to knock aside pikes but they were still great main battlefield weapons and if you are dismounted in the field you fight with the weapons you brought sutable or not some knights would even break their lances to make makeshift spears when they were forced to fight on foot
There is no dismounted gothic knights in the campaign, so I can not understand the meaning of this video. Nobody will use them in online battles.