RE: James Wilks vs Chris Kresser on Rogan + How to Read Forest Plots
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- Опубліковано 12 гру 2019
- My reaction to James Wilks on Joe Rogan, a closer look at some of the studies mentioned, and a quick lesson on how to read forest plots.
- Links and Sources -
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My Chris Kresser Rogan Debunk Response:
• Chris Kresser Debunks ...
Crop Deaths Panel on Mic the Vegan 2: • Crop Deaths Panel with...
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Original Rogan Video: • Video
Dairy Meta Analysis:
www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/1...
B12 paper cited by Joe: www.ars.usda.gov/news-events/...
B12 vegan levels spain:www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2...
B12 Runners 2019: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3...
2019 Stanford Paper on Protein Digestibility: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3...
Protein intake beyond ~1.6 g/kg or 0.72 g/lb had no benefit:
bjsm.bmj.com/content/52/6/376
AND position athletes protein: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2...
Heme Iron and CVD Study:
www.nmcd-journal.com/article/...
Intro/Outro Song: Sedução Momentânea by Roulet:
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#JamesWilks #JoeRogan #ForestPlots
When you are writing an article you NEVER quote your own words. He was being either deceptive or stupid and I am not even vegan.
Obvious sign of fraudulence
Exactly! I was an English major in college and I know that when you try and prove a point you quote directly from experts not yourself.
@@RabbitFoodFitness Absolutely, can you imagine turning in a college term paper putting quotation marks around your own words and/or ideas? Chris has a master degree, he knows better or at least he should.
@@sek4110 Yes. He really should know better.
@@sek4110 He does. That is not a recurring "mistake" in his material. If he felt that it was grammatically correct to use quotes in that way he would make that mistake often. He doesn't. I have only seen him do it when he is being deceptive on IG or in IG stories when he is "debunking" a source. I didn't even know he used the same trick in his slides.
What an amazing debate for the plant based nutrition demimonde!
Really solid highlights video mate...capturing all the main points. - Klaus
Definitely agree!
It’s pathetic that 100 years of Seventh Day Adventist ideology has forced real science to have to defend itself so vigorously...
[C&P FROM ANOTHER GUY ON DR SALADINO'S VIDEO: Did James Wilks get ANYTHING RIGHT against Chris Kresser?]
Did james get anything right ua-cam.com/video/euQ_izlFVe0/v-deo.html
Oh really? Are you sure? Because this debate just made me hate vegans even more. You people are insufferable and rude. James is a bully who evaded all the main points Chris was trying to make. Namely, that a plant based diet with some meat is superior to an all plant based diet. James keeps bringing up the fact that Chris isn't an expert (even though he has more qualifications than James) but he's acting like an expert himself. The whole debat/circus was James talking over and being rude to Chris.
James loves talking about HIS studies but discounts all of Chris's studies as industry funded. Only James's experts count apparently. This was no debate just another example of how insufferable vegans are.
You're a treasure, Klaus
I’m just here for the forest plot tutorial.
9:40 ish
@@MictheVegan You're the best, mad prop
someone should message Chris
😂
😂
I love how forest plots were trending on Twitter immediately following their exchange.
Yes!! That was pretty great!
Someone should make a "I know how to read a forest plot" t-shirt
@@DL-ng8rf "How I Made My First Million Dollars"
@@DL-ng8rf or a shirt with a forest plot and it says, and I quote myself, lol, "Can you even read a forest plot bruh?"
The Debate Hitman , I looked it up 😂
At about 1 hour into the debate, I was like "Okay, James is doing really well, BUT let's see how Chris handles this." By the 3rd hour, I was like "Okay, stop, HE IS ALREADY DEAD." James definitely won that debate and it really did not seem to end well for Chis.
😂
James wrecked them, 2 against one, with one hand tied behind his back "Isn't that a high rate for males, prostate cancer?" Why yes Joe, women don't have a prostate. Great work Mic!
It was 1v1, Joe wasn't taking sides
@Ish Zub
See previous comment
Before I watched the debate I was pretty concerned. Why not get a vegan doctor or nutritionist instead of Wilks, like Garth Davis, for instance? But I think Wilks did a really good job considering nutrition and diet is not his specialty.
If you're trying to change people's opinion about something, it's often better to bring good debaters, even if they use dirty tricks to win over the audience, instead of knowledgeable people. Trump is a colossal idiot yet he was able to destroy his Republican opponents in a debate and he did the same to Hillary Clinton, I would argue, though to a lesser degree.
Another example is, unfortunately, Dr Michael Greger who in this interview[1] is not able to provide good arguments against Ketogenic diets. There are other videos where he does a great job explaining his views and criticizing keto but I'm afraid that a debate might not be the best scene for him to shine and present arguments.
[1] ua-cam.com/video/X9BvqlTvVao/v-deo.html
jon there is 0 proof of trump being a colossal idiot... 0. Its just something people got used to saying from CNN
@@Mr.Witness Do I have the authority to say "no politics!" in my own comment thread? lol
Matthew Davis haha i respect it. Just like vegan debates i challenge the things people state as accepted facts but i will let this slide much love !
Respected Doctors and Nutritionists don't care to waste time arguing with a bozo acupuncturist on a radio show hosted by a guy who does UFC commentating. They're too busy helping people that want to be helped then trying to persuade the ignorant. Wilks jumped at this opportunity because of how easy it was to tear Kresser apart, and defend HIS film.
My feelings of pity toward Chris Kresser getting owned almost ruined my enjoyment of this.... almost.
lol justified schadenfreude is a rare find, enjoy it ;)
that's the problem with vegans, too much compassion 😜
@@s7r49 Please develop.
S7R4
Haha, sorry buddy, there is no valid argument against veganism and James would destroy you too
Kresser deserved all he got and more.. bout time someone shined a bright light on his utter bullshit.
That smile / laugh after “what happens after you cook?!” “You definitely break them down.” “hhhhhhuuuua 😬”
Lol 😂 3 hrs of awkward, informative, hilarity...
It was a really good podcast.
Yes. That smile was precious! 😂😂♥️
No we want you to cover the whole thing lol
chikkmagneet yo! U plant based ? I see lots of mma stuff on your channel
Actually, I would like to analyze the whole thing. I couldn't get enough.
Honestly I would LOVE to see you detail the entire 4 hours video.... 8 hours of Mic sciencing... I would 100% watch... more than once
Wife Of Khan do it! Do it! Do it! Do it!
Please 🙏💚
YES!
Mic? Please answer 🙏💚
Watch ask yourself and dr.avi’s analysis on the video lmao. 7 hours and they only got through half
Thanks for explaining forest plots. I honestly never heard of it, before the debate.
Lol at the tree background for the forest plot lesson!
I don't eat meat but that was the most delicious roast I've ever seen.
Any chance you’re related to Coach Lengyel of Marshall University fame?
I love how he sets traps for Kresser throughout the debate. Turns out, fight skills are useful in more ways than one.
🌱⚡️👊🏻
Haha right!
ja, super Socratic, I loved it too
fighting is a language. 1 v 1 is a language. take any competition. its always easy to see the competitor. because they are always well researched
@@ninjaturtletyke3328 he was not prepared! xD
Kresser needs a personality transplant. I dont care what he is eating. The man has no personality. No character.
James was straight savage on this podcast, no relenting to show when Chris was wrong. I could almost feel Chris’s anxiousness 😜
@mod trend if a Neanderthal can read studies better than Kresser, it doesn't help hahaha
Kresser got Acu-punctured. He was totally deflated by the end.
Wilks acu-punched him into submission!
So good.
lol
I thought I was rather composed, until I started decomposing.
Wonderful explanation of the forest plot and how to read it. Excellent work! Thank you for the time you spent to do this for us. Becoming a Patreon.
Awww thanks so much
Well done James
Seriously! He did such a good job at poking holes in the nonsense that Chris Kresser said about his documentary.
I don't know... water after cocaine always helped me.
Gotta stay hydrated! 👍
I legit felt sorry for Kresser, only for a moment though!
If Joe Rogan goes Vegan any time from this point on until he dies, then James Wilks was right... He went vegan after the Game Changers movie. James never specified a timeline LOL
Joe's take after the podcast is "you can be healthy on veganism, but meat isn't unhealthy"
@@lucasgasque4312 I know.... It'll take another thousand plus studies for that.. he's waiting for a Surgeon General warning...
He's like all those smokers, it's not unhealthy! Why... Even my doctor smokes....
I am a firm believer in the power of words and I believe that at some point Joe Rogan WILL become vegan.
@@ASMRyouVEGANyet Joe is a meathead, his audience is mostly meatheads just like his friends.
And his adds are in most part meat industry adds, he maybe change someday, but I don't think it will be soon, unfortunately.
@@lucasgasque4312 His not He's.
He's = He Is
His = Belonging to him.
Not everyone has English as a first language, I do understand, not being a smart ass, actually just trying to help you understand the difference in the words and what they mean.
But totally get your meaning..
He's a Meathead, but just because he's a meathead, doesn't mean it isn't plausible that he could very well actually change his ways... Even if he goes more plant based, it'll be a difference.
Straight up every single pro-meat, low carb, keto, carnivore comment i have read about this debate is that they turned it off immediately and did not watch it.
Im not surprised, it takes an inquiring and intelligent mind to want to look at all sides before forming an opinion.
Condemnation before investigation is the height of ignorance.
You know what time it is!
"they turned it off immediately and did not watch it."
This seems eerie to vegans because of the contrasting approaches to the topic. Vegans are not trying to suppress empathic concern for animals. Non-vegans dissociate when they begin to experience empathic distress and compartmentalize and de-animalitize "livestock" (cognitive dissonance). This shows in EEG recordings as reduced neural interconnectivity and reflects segregated thought processes. This is what occurs in PTSD to a larger degree. So, meat consumers are wired to just suppress otherwise relevant data, while vegans do not shirk from addressing the uncomfortable topics. Vegans are not backfiring to try to cope with empathic concern for others. Vegans are proud that they are not contributing to the suffering.
@7 M.A. R.Z. 7 "He's ToO Aggressive"
Anybody who provides relevant scientific data is "too aggressive" for meat consumers. Wilks didn't make one ad hominem in almost 4 hours. You don't see that much in diet debates...
Cool story, Bro.
I love how sick-of-your-shit-already shop teacher James Wilks became not long into the debate. Also, somewhere in the Upper Midwest, a group of young musicians is celebrating their first bar gig as "The Forest Plots." Oh, what a time to be alive! TFP : )
*Facts And Logic Destroy Kresser Nonsense Every Time*
I was (almost) first
*Facts and logic also open Joe Rogan's mind*
@@veganfortheanimals6994 I'm going to award you the *First Comment Prize* anyway!
stop that it's so old
@@misakistalker3058 The more you want me to stop the more you compel me to do it again
;)
Do you even forest plot bro
lol
Even after that breakdown, I am still confused lol
"Debunk" is starting to mean nothing now.
Agreed. Now it means "this is my opinion", not actually using facts to debunk a false claim. It's used way too often and incorrectly.
The degradation of language by its over-distribution is so sad. It’s probably safer to go by the rule that everything Joe Rohan says is either a lie or just a stupid false assumption
A better analogy would be it's okay to drive into a tree because I have airbags.
I read it too fast and it said "it's okay to drive a tree..." 🤣🤣
I’ve been waiting for your take on this video. Great stuff!
Me too! I actually watched the whole debate, it was great but I felt sorry for Kresser!
@@vendysmith4886 how could you feel sorry for that lying pos? I hope you're kidding!
Hi Mic, I love your channel. I learn so much 🙂
Hell yeah, forest plots!
Thanks buddy! The forest plot lesson was dope and the summary of the podcast was A+++
So a forest plot does not look like a bunch of trees.
L P LMFAO Best comment
xD i believed this is what they were talking about lol-.- silly me
I love James smile at 7:18 😂 he’s just laughing at how he’s proving Chris wrong
adrian vasquez I think he got a dopamine hit at that very moment lol.
When you realise you've used "you're selling supplements" as a defence in an argument and then argue that the entire world should be supplementing b12, that's the face of a totally incoherent moron you mean.
Chester SD what do you mean? He showed facts that both vegans and non vegans should take b12 supplements so it makes sense
@@adrianvasquez6783 do yourself a favour and read the studies he cites about b12 lol, they're not facts
Like! If you want "Forest Plot" as UA-cam Subject 2019
We do want you to review the whole thing 😅
Been waiting for your review Mic :) Already saw Happy Healthy Vegan and have been waiting in anticipation of yours. Great work.
Chris kresser ex-employee of the animal product industry
what was?
Very informative! I can never wait for one of your videos to come out!
Don't feel sorry for Kresser. He isn't qualified to comment on anything. He got things wrong, made shit up without checking it, mislead people on purpose, and lied.
lol we're vegan, we can't help feeling sorry for suffering sentient life forms!
Citizenthirteen
Fact
I have to hand it to you Mic, your content is super well done and effective. Thank you for your public service!
Thank you for putting a little forest illustration at the bottom. Very good
I felt bad for Chris too, but he has it coming
I need a Forest Plot shirt stat!
I'm glad you mentioned that "eating plants with meat decreases the negative effects of meat" is not a good argument for meat at all lmao all it establishes is that plants are so healthy that they can compensate for meat to some degree.
So excited dor this video!!
When I watched the debate my first thought was on how fast you will do a video on it.
Nice one!
I am blown away with how well Mic was able to breakdown the video. Usually he tends to mock, but this video was amazing!!!
No vegan UA-camr touched on the studies Chris was referencing about endothelial function. I'm sure his studies are crap but it should be mentioned. I think CVD is more important of a point and we won the argument on that.
Jason James can you expound and link the study. I’m too lazy to watch the whole debate and shift through papers 😝😳
I agree, he listed a number of studies so it looked like he had some good evidence there; I tried searching for them but they were hard to find. It’d be worth tracking them down imho
Love this explanation thanks for all you do
Thanks for the Joe Rogan/ James Wilks review. And thanks for the Forest Plots lesson it was very helpful!
I thought Chris didn’t want to come on with James not the first “debunk” video.
Nick Eisnor I also got that impression from the short exchange. I thought Joe had to reach out to Chris a few times to get him to come back and speak with James. Not that he had asked him to debunk it initially. I’ll have to listen again.
Yup.
that was how i interpreted it as well
Awesome video Mike! I didn't do a video on this over on my channel because I felt that James Wilks did such a good job of debunking Chris's debunk that it didn't need to be done. And, nice job explaining forest plots.
Rabbit Food Fitness lol epic channel name. Subbed
@@YoungEarthCreation Thanks!
Nicee! Have been waiting for this video 👍
Great video like the explanation on forest plots.
I’ve waited for what seems like forever for your response to the James Wilkes rebuttal. I know it was a long podcast to sift through, so THANK YOU!
I am a Rogan fan, but until he has on Michael Greger or Garth Davis, I will never believe he is serious about hearing the facts about a plant-based diet. Come on, Joe! Let's get it done!
Veganism winning
Really appreciate your work Mic!
Ive been waiting for a week....finish em off Mic...
Somewhere around the two thirds mark, you can see Chris' soul leaving his body.
Get Dr Greger on Rogan!!
Yes. But I think Dr. Barnard might be a slightly better choice? Maybe. Barnard seems to understand that a relentless reinforcement is necessary. Both are obviously amazing and would be great wealths of information, Dr. Gregor specifically for his diverse info.
After hearing Dr. Gregor in this interview I really wanted to see him on JRE ua-cam.com/video/DULLOgG23mI/v-deo.html
Dr. Greger AND his treadmill!
Thanks for the forest plot 101
7:18 I love that smile. It's one of pure joy. XD
Love your videos !
i was waiting for this!
Amazing video. Nice job man 👍
Whew. Impressive. The little quotes on haeme iron and other points were good to capture as screen shots. Thanks for the explanation of forest plot. Very interesting and well explained, good to know.
Thank you for that review of forest plots
I saw a huge chunk of this earlier and it was such good fun.
You are freaking hilarious and informative. Great videos!!! Keep it up.
Kudos for explaining forest plots!
Is there anything more beautiful for justice being served? Your videos are pure gold mate.
Joe Rogan needs to replace Chris Kresser with James Wilks. It would be better for his show as it will offer a much more balanced and honest perspective.
Debbie Barbour - selective ignorance is strong in you. Ah, yes, it’s only the meat industry that has bias. Not the growing, multi billion dollar plant based movement that has multiple propaganda films, paid celebrity influencers, government pushing, and big pharma and grain funding.
How convenient that anything in favor of veganism = unbiased and truthful (because you’re vegan and seek confirmation bias), and anything that says something positive about meat is automatically discarded and “biased” propaganda by big meat industry.
Nice sarcasm about “big broccoli” as if big grain, an industry that yields $475 BILLION annually in revenue does not exist. Not to mention the other industries backing plant based foods, such as big pharma, supplement companies, governments, and more. Let’s also not forget how much more profitable plants are to produce than meats.
With this considered, it’s absolutely foolish to think only the meat industry generates bias and propaganda.
@@SIIKAP1 Why in the bloody hell would "big sugar" and "big grain" (???) be in favour of veganism? Why not add "big soy" to the list while you're at it. Grain is used to feed billions of animals, didnt you know that? And did you know that necrovores/supermarketivores eat grain too???
@@SIIKAP1 O nevermind, you also assume big pharma thinks "veganism" is more profitable LOL
Max Renn - because grains are “vegan” staple foods....obviously. Grain, soy, sugar, you name it-all benefit the vegan movement. Much of the grain given to livestock is not suitable for human consumption. You ever take a look at their feed? It’s inedible to us. But regardless, grain and soy are numerous times more profitable than meat.
Additionally, factory farming and organic, pasture farming are two different things. Not a whole lot of profit margin in organic pasture animal farming. “Big meat” is the factory farming that we both hate. But local farming is not remotely as profitable as any grain farming.
I’m not suggesting these profitable plant foods are unique to vegans. Just like meats aren’t unique to carnivores. Rather, it’s ignorant to assume one is biased, but not the other. Especially considering the plant industry is many times more profitable.
And yes, big pharma knows plant agriculture is more profitable. Not vegan diets specifically, but all plant production. And since vegan is only plant derived foods, then promoting veganism is just another form of marketing for plants in general.
@@SIIKAP1 Absolute nonsense. The regular culturally conditioned necrovore consumes way more soy/grain both directly and indirectly than the regular vegan. Animal agriculture is a huge customer of "big soy" as well as "big grain". And what the hell has sugar got to do with a plant based diet???
Great overview! :)
"Kresser got distroyed" says Uatu
You’re so awesome!! Thanks for the forest plot lesson - Kresser needs to subscribe to your channel 😍
Mike, I just love you!! ❤️
A debate can no longer be held with opinions and denial. Sorry meat eaters.
Defining characteristics of a cult:
1. Disgust and hatred for dissenters of the group
2. Base friendships and enemies depending on the group
3. Stifle all opposing opinions and thoughts on the group
@Citizenthirteen Ah yes, the vegan reductionist approach where all animal eaters are destined for cancer and health problems. You guys really do have a hard time thinking critically about these issues, that's for certain.
I notice your channel has no content and is created just to make pro-meat comments. What actual human names his channel that?
So who do you work for? Everyone else on here is an actual person with a real name who does other things than promote a corporate product.
Post some research for your side instead of copy/pasting some vague strawman crap about a cult. Your bosses are a the real cult.
@@terryjackson9395 Funny comment. I made this username a long, long time ago and only recently started commenting on vegan videos. I don't have a boss, I'm an omnivore who notices cult characteristics in the vegan diet. Care to comment on that?
@@leangroundbeef2322 Specifically, you're a primate. You're not closely related to a bear or racoon. Closest relative the chimp eats 3%-5% meat.
I'll be happy to comment on your obtuse observation. Any group you're not in and don't like you can call a cult.
By the same definition you posted, Meat eaters, the kind who go on vegan videos and talk shit are a cult. It's just a larger cult that YOU happen to be in :
1) Disgust and hatred for dissenters of the group (you're the one who initially came on here talking shit. I didn't come to one of your meat videos)
2) Base friendships and enemies depending on the group (do you have any vegan friends? I have lots of meat eating friends and girlfriends)
3) Stifle all opposing opinions and thoughts on the group (Again, you're the one who came here calling normal people with normal usernames "cult members")
Explain to me why the nice people on here are in a cult and YOU are not.
Everyone knows there's a shitload of money and marketing behind meat. With half of all grain in the US grown for feed, meat is directly responsible for most of big-ag sales...as well as all the companies like Monsanto behind that market, the lobby is 500 times larger than the 'vegan' industry. They have been caught paying bloggers, commenters and vloggers to promote their product incognito, and post questionable studies funded by themselves (which is not free speech, it's false advertising).
Lately they've hired law firms in a transparently desperate attempt to block nut milk from being called 'milk' and vegan burgers from being called 'burgers'. Like the Kessler video, it's pathetic, watching these sleazy little weasels try to maneuver. They're on the wrong side of history and they know it. Just trying to grab some money for a decade or threee before their whole industry becomes a sick joke from the past.
So now you're telling me that you, an average Joe who has nothing to do with the meat industry, trucking it, farming, slaughter, etc, randomly decided to name your channel "Lean GroundBeef" and had nothing better to do in your free time than to come onto vegan channels and try to recruit people away, calling them cult members? Now THAT is funny.
dis gon b good
Good stuff. Thanks
Thank you for this. Yes.
Awesome as always... if you are interested “Ng”... is a very common Chinese family name. Usually pronounced “ing... like in Ring”
That was very interesting thank you
I ordered the «we’re all animals» hoodie in white a fre weeks ago, and im soooo exited to get it! It will proborbly be a while until it arrived, because I live in Norway, but i cant wait❤️
Great video! James Wilks did an awesome job! It was so satisfying to see someone challenge Chris Kresser properly, especially after the Joel Kahn debate...
P.S Remember to add your End Screen Annotations
Thanks. Great video (as per usual). I appreciated the forest plot tutorial. As a science layperson, It would be great if you could do other videos systematically detailing how to read nutritional studies. You have explained concepts like "sick populations" but the better we are able to understand the science, the better able we would be to share with others reasons for vegan health.
Love this!
Love this! So smart 😄
I love this video, and I'm going to watch it again a few times. A quick side note: Smoking is the number 1 cause of bladder cancer. It's not just lung cancer. There are reasons for this. Smoking causes several cancers. And of course heme iron causes several kinds of cancers too. Thanks for this video. I really liked it.
Awesome!
Mic you’re a genius on Forest Plots! 🙏🏼🌱💪
Love it buddy! You do such a great bro impression :) Talk soon bud :)
great video
Please make more videos!!! 🌱
Well the study about protein is not really from Standford but from AgroParisTech, and the lead author is the " scientific leader of a research contract with Terres Univia, the French Interbranch
organization for plant oils and proteins", that is: a junk plant food lobby for oils and plant protein derivates... The only purpose of the study is conformity with RDA, which are based on nitrogen content of foods. But the nitrogen content of foods is not actually equal to their real amino acids contents because plants have fiber-bound nitrogens which are not digestible.
Go, James!!
The a shining star ! Well done !
Loved it!!!!! 😁❤️
JAMES HAS THE BEST HUGE GRIN AFTER HE SCORES HIS WINS. LOVE IT.❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️🌱🌱🌱🌱❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
Great vid mic❤️🌱❤️
Maybe this is a little bit off topic, but:
I'm three years vegan now. When will my beard start to glow green like yours? What am i doing wrong?
gotta eat more thylakoids... and maybe bioluminescent plankton
huh
he was just pointing out mic was using a green screen and it made green fringes
@@TheOnlyHalfline i didn't notice lol