This might be an unpopular opinion based on what the rest of the comment section says but I kinda like the digital Fujifilm camera more even if the highlights are blown out sometimes. It had a warmer and more interesting feel compared to the rest…at least that’s how I feel
Many, of course, prefer film. But this is mostly a film photography channel anyway. In the end, it's all a matter of personal taste, and of course, the image from the Fuji F20 is very good considering the limitations of the camera. The people at Fuji already knew what they were doing back then, but they were just held back by the technology.
Right??? Colors from Fuji are just gorgeous! They suffer a bit from scenes with big light variation, but when you need a burst of color, that's you go to! This Fuji SuperCCD are something special!
Testing 3 tiny digital sensors vs 35mm film is an unfair fight to start with. And obviously those tiny digital sensors are going to have limitations on them due to their age and physics. You should have tested APS-C CCD sensors vs 35mm film. It's a more even comparison. And those APS-C CCDs have better DR and resolving power. Having owned several APS-C CCD sensor cameras from Olympus, Nikon, Sony, I can say that they do offer much nicer colour than CMOS sensors, but are obviously limited by noise issues above 1600 ISO.
Yes, that was actually unfair, but a lot of people who have no idea also buy these small CCD cameras because they've heard that they're film-like. I just wanted to show that you should either use film or LR Mobile if you want the film look.
I've been shooting on film for many years, and for a couple of years on old CCD cameras, and I really like all of that. But this video proves that you can get great results shooting on an old iPhone, so it's just a matter of taste and shooting preferences. Great video, thank you 🤝
You're welcome. I think the older the CCD cameras are, the more they resemble film. Before smartphones, that was the only way to take pictures cheaply at all.
I know ccd can't do film look but it's far better in look than film for sure. That super ccd on the f20 is magic and i'm glad you showed how good it can be. more organic even. Film and your iphone preset looks too washed out and lifeless but that's okay that could be great for shooting other subjects to punch in for drama.
Panasonic was definitely the most color-accurate, except for the white balance at the end. But yeah, you could interpret the white balance as Panasonic's artistic freedom. :D
I like the Panasonic. I would raise the shadows a bit in LR. You suggest that the colors were not accurate, but I think they looked the best (until the last few shots).
The colors from Panasonic are definitely the most accurate among the four cameras. However, Kodak Gold isn't exactly known for its color accuracy either :D Unfortunately, the JPEGs from the Panasonic aren't very flexible, even in Lightroom.
Impressive how deeply you are immersed in the subject! And honestly, the performance of the iPhone in combination with your preset is the most impressive 😅, at least for my noob eyes 😅. Fascinating how you managed to recreate the grain part 👍👍👍.
Thanks, it wasn't that easy to figure out how to get the best quality out of such a tiny iPhone sensor. :D But with LR Mobile, you can really get an astonishing amount of dynamic range. It's rather surprising that Adobe hasn't managed to update the grain feature yet so that you can do it without tricks. :D
I think that the reason CCD have the filmic look reputation is because the companies tried to imitate the film color science even without film simulations because that is what the consumers were used to at the time. I've heard that Kodak had great color science on their CCD cameras and it makes sense from a film company. Brands like Samsung had a more digital look in their cameras. To me Lumix had the overall more vibrant look that translates better to a screen but not very film like. However I would have loved if a portion of the video was about the possessing of the digital files with and without the filter. Very interesting comparison nevertheless!!!
Thanks, yeah, Kodak was probably one of the first to try capturing the look of slide film on a digital sensor. But then having images with a specific look somehow got deprioritized in favor of more realistic colors. Well, now we’re back at a point where everyone’s trying to get that film look again. :D
This was a really interesting and fun comparison! Rarely do we get to see all these side by side... I've been shooting so long that my first Nikon DSLR's were CCD's lol, I then had some CMOS Nikon's, and now I shoot Fuji. But I still have my D200 and busted it out recently, and compared it to a D7200 and X-S10, and frankly there was much less difference than I expected. They all had different colour science of course, and while the CCD oversaturated some of the warm tones comparatively, with editing I could achieve an identical enough aesthetic result regardless of the sensor type, etc. So yeah I don't buy into the hype that CCD's are 'filmic', as only film looks like film. So digital bodies, even going back almost 20 years lol, are all still essentially 'good enough' to me, so then it really comes down to the lens...
I think that nowadays, with any RAW-capable camera, any color profile can be recreated. There are companies like Cobalt Image that specifically sell old CCD profiles for modern cameras. As you also mentioned, the lens is even more important than the sensor for a vintage look.
@@TheBigNegative-PhotoChannel Yeah sensors are so good now, with huge dynamic range and bit-depths etc, that RAW's are super malleable. And I had heard about Cobalt somewhere else and it sounded interesting, like they really took care to dial in the profiles. I find the Fuji profiles in Lightroom to be pretty good, but definitely not identical to the real filmsims. The other thing I forgot to mention was the ISO performance and noise, which had differences. The D200's CCD had a 'nicer' looking high iso grain, which could be due to the smaller 10MP sensor and larger photosites, but it also suffered more from color rather than luminance noise. Granted it was unusable above iso 1600 haha. And while the X-Trans sensor can struggle with demosaicing and 'worms' from oversharpening, I think it also had a much less 'digital' noise pattern. So maybe that's a reason why both sensors might lend themselves to be considered more film like. But the experience of shooting Fuji, the colour science, creating filmsims, etc., definitely helps achieve a look straight out of camera that I think is unmatched by other companies right now.
Mein Bruder, hast du gut geschlafen? Wie fühlst du dich? Endlich, was für eine Vergleichen. Ich rocke meine tz10 als die zweite Kamera.. immer neben die MP und es geht… es passt.. für alles was länger ist, und weiter ist.. ehrlich gesagt. Ich benutze die für commercial benutzt.. und niemand sag nichts. Das erklärt alles. Die Emotion über die Kamera. Du bist der Champion. Bis nächstes Mal. Sorry dass du nicht nrw aus. Das ist eine positive Ding. 🤣
hervorragend gut geschlafen. Ist zur Zeit nur etwas warm. :D Jau die point & shoots haben wirklich eine sehr gute Reichweite ich finde es nur schade das sie kein raw speichern können das würde sie soooo viel besser machen. Als zweitkamera aber durchaus brauchbar. besser den shot haben als nicht haben. 👌bis zum nächsten mal :D ich bin aus Thüringen das ist leider nicht so positiv. :D
Bruder 🤣 ich stimme zu, mit alles was du sagst… Thüringen Ohje, 😆du bist um die Ecke, ich komme aus Australia aber in Bielefeld. Aber Bielefeld, gibt es nichts 😆 ich muss Thüringen besuchen 🥲 sie sagen da ist Porn Capital der Welt.. 🤔 schön dass du gut geschlafen hast. Das ist so nice.. Vampir sind nicht so nett 😅 bis nächstes mal 🫡 🦘
snappiness shot some great pictures with an old fuji digicam tho. maybe classic chrome is bad on it? if i understand right u used that for all the pictures.
Yeah, I only used Classic Chrome for everything. However, the standard mode doesn't differ fundamentally. It's probably more due to this specific camera. Snappiness usually picks cameras that have larger sensors and are more likely older professional models.
I know you didn't like the shots from the Fuji but I actually love the punchy look of the F20. I own an F30, which I really really like but unfortunately it has quite a bit of dust on the sensor. Great video my friend! :)
Thanls.Well, "not liking" means... The Fuji JPEGs were just as good as always, except the highlights or shadows were blown out. Which at least the Lumix didn’t do. Maybe the F30 doesn’t do that. 🤷♂️ Dust on the sensor is really a problem. I once tried to repair a point & shoot camera but unfortunately broke it in the process. 😅
That's true. However, Classic Chrome doesn't look particularly different from the standard profile. I probably could have made a comparison image for that.
Damn how come you've uploaded this yesterday. I'm currently studying the working principle of CCD sensors in a MEMS devices lecture and wondered if there's some comparison around so I searched for exactly this lol. CCD sensors are denser and feature less noise in theory.
Here’s a video just for you. XD I find it a bit unfortunate that CCD wasn’t further developed; it would be nice to have more options in the grain characteristics for different cameras. X-Trans is still the exception.
@@TheBigNegative-PhotoChannelDespite CMOS being less costly to manufacture CCD would have been very difficult to advance further due to it's inherent design. They had to split the sensors into taps just to get any speed out of them and the four tap CCD sensors were the last made before switching to CMOS. I have a Sony ICX694 CCD industrial camera that is four taps and max speed of 27fps full sensor. It has it's strong points such as global shutter and raw latitude that makes pulling details out of shadows easy. Definitely protect the highlights on these as when they're gone they're not coming back. They would be good candidates for cinematography at least with enough speed to shoot 24fps in a super 16 size format.
I sold a few ccd pocket cameras. Buyers where young and they where interested in flashlight performance. They use these cameras at parties or Spieleabende and not for street photographie.. Smartphones do not have xenon flashlight but led..
I only know the videos from social media where people take their CCD cameras, set the white balance to cloudy, and then act like it's on par with film photography. But it makes more sense to use those little cameras more for parties.
Yeah, I overexpose the film by +1 because Kodak Gold tends to lose details when underexposed. However, the look really comes together in post-processing. I mainly just increase the exposure and adjust some contrast settings. I even made a tutorial on it once.
@@Daniel-ku4dp Honestly, the other cameras tend to underexpose more :D but yeah, you can bring them closer together through exposure. In a few cases in the video, you can see that when the lighting is balanced, they all look very similar.
I don't think it's that bad if cameras only have 10 megapixels. It always depends on whether the lens is sharp enough. I mean, iPhones have screens that are "only" 3.6 megapixels "big". :D
I need to learn more about DX code hacking. I have a few point and shoot cameras with auto coding and woild like to try it. To the interwebs! Also, #asscrhrome 😂
DX code hacking from 200 to 100 is quite simple. You just take some black electrical tape and cut out a small rectangle. Otherwise, there are even stickers that you can simply stick on the film if you don't feel like fiddling around. :D
CCD is not filmic! I don't know who the first one to start this trend :)) but older ccd look so ass. the only ccd camera i use is hasselblad h4d and the iso performance is so bad,only at 50 or 100 it does give it a paintery feel if you look it long enough but that is.
Good point, when you watch old M9 and M8 videos, people swear by that filmic look. :D But on UA-cam, people do tend to exaggerate to justify their Leica cameras. Lol.
Basically, I'm comparing the integrated color profiles of the manufacturers. Essentially, you can make CMOS look like CCD and vice versa. However, people specifically buy CCD sensors because of the "legendary" film-like color profiles. The in-camera processing is, however, heavily limited in terms of dynamic range, especially when the cameras don't have RAW.
CCD does not have better color. It's just old color science that people notice that they like. A company called Cobalt Image sells a Leica and the Pentax medium format CCD look with your CMOS camera.
Who won this battle for you? CCD or Film?
This might be an unpopular opinion based on what the rest of the comment section says but I kinda like the digital Fujifilm camera more even if the highlights are blown out sometimes. It had a warmer and more interesting feel compared to the rest…at least that’s how I feel
Many, of course, prefer film. But this is mostly a film photography channel anyway.
In the end, it's all a matter of personal taste, and of course, the image from the Fuji F20 is very good considering the limitations of the camera. The people at Fuji already knew what they were doing back then, but they were just held back by the technology.
Right??? Colors from Fuji are just gorgeous!
They suffer a bit from scenes with big light variation, but when you need a burst of color, that's you go to!
This Fuji SuperCCD are something special!
Fuji for the win
Testing 3 tiny digital sensors vs 35mm film is an unfair fight to start with. And obviously those tiny digital sensors are going to have limitations on them due to their age and physics. You should have tested APS-C CCD sensors vs 35mm film. It's a more even comparison. And those APS-C CCDs have better DR and resolving power. Having owned several APS-C CCD sensor cameras from Olympus, Nikon, Sony, I can say that they do offer much nicer colour than CMOS sensors, but are obviously limited by noise issues above 1600 ISO.
Yes, that was actually unfair, but a lot of people who have no idea also buy these small CCD cameras because they've heard that they're film-like. I just wanted to show that you should either use film or LR Mobile if you want the film look.
"old IPhone 11"- i´m still using an IPhone 7 :D
Genau 👍🏾
This year is the last year the iPhone 11 will receive an update. So in the Apple world, it's an "old" phone :D
The Fuji Zoomdate 1300 with film looks the best, in my opinion.
Yeah, CCD cameras really aren't that good compared to real film.
11:10 asschrome 😂 that caught me off guard and I almost shot coffee out my damn nose 🤣😅
Speziell
Hehe, yeah, you probably shouldn't be drinking anything while watching my videos. :D
I've been shooting on film for many years, and for a couple of years on old CCD cameras, and I really like all of that. But this video proves that you can get great results shooting on an old iPhone, so it's just a matter of taste and shooting preferences. Great video, thank you 🤝
You're welcome. I think the older the CCD cameras are, the more they resemble film. Before smartphones, that was the only way to take pictures cheaply at all.
iPhone 11 was the last one before Apple put in the bs deep fusion auto enhance feature
I know ccd can't do film look but it's far better in look than film for sure. That super ccd on the f20 is magic and i'm glad you showed how good it can be. more organic even. Film and your iphone preset looks too washed out and lifeless but that's okay that could be great for shooting other subjects to punch in for drama.
Many people like the look of the F20. It's no wonder the standard camera on the iPhone usually looks so punchy too. :D
I actually thought the panasonic came out best overall. Even the shots with incorrect white balance looked better than the others imo.
Panasonic was definitely the most color-accurate, except for the white balance at the end. But yeah, you could interpret the white balance as Panasonic's artistic freedom. :D
I like the Panasonic. I would raise the shadows a bit in LR. You suggest that the colors were not accurate, but I think they looked the best (until the last few shots).
The colors from Panasonic are definitely the most accurate among the four cameras. However, Kodak Gold isn't exactly known for its color accuracy either :D Unfortunately, the JPEGs from the Panasonic aren't very flexible, even in Lightroom.
Impressive how deeply you are immersed in the subject! And honestly, the performance of the iPhone in combination with your preset is the most impressive 😅, at least for my noob eyes 😅. Fascinating how you managed to recreate the grain part 👍👍👍.
Thanks, it wasn't that easy to figure out how to get the best quality out of such a tiny iPhone sensor. :D But with LR Mobile, you can really get an astonishing amount of dynamic range. It's rather surprising that Adobe hasn't managed to update the grain feature yet so that you can do it without tricks. :D
Lol zoomdate….In Australia, ‘date’ is slang for bumhole. Its a camera for zooming into your date haha
Haha, that really is a very unfortunate name. 😂
Very interesting, The ultimate digital film like camera is a Foveon camera by Sigma.
I've also seen a lot of videos about the Foveon sensor. The post-processing in that strange Sigma software just somehow put me off.
I think that the reason CCD have the filmic look reputation is because the companies tried to imitate the film color science even without film simulations because that is what the consumers were used to at the time. I've heard that Kodak had great color science on their CCD cameras and it makes sense from a film company. Brands like Samsung had a more digital look in their cameras.
To me Lumix had the overall more vibrant look that translates better to a screen but not very film like.
However I would have loved if a portion of the video was about the possessing of the digital files with and without the filter.
Very interesting comparison nevertheless!!!
Thanks, yeah, Kodak was probably one of the first to try capturing the look of slide film on a digital sensor. But then having images with a specific look somehow got deprioritized in favor of more realistic colors. Well, now we’re back at a point where everyone’s trying to get that film look again. :D
The best shots definitely come from the zoomdate followed by the Lightroom-processed iphone11 shots. Oh, cool! We have the same peak design camera bag
Haha, yeah, the good old Peak Design bag. :D
This was a really interesting and fun comparison! Rarely do we get to see all these side by side... I've been shooting so long that my first Nikon DSLR's were CCD's lol, I then had some CMOS Nikon's, and now I shoot Fuji. But I still have my D200 and busted it out recently, and compared it to a D7200 and X-S10, and frankly there was much less difference than I expected. They all had different colour science of course, and while the CCD oversaturated some of the warm tones comparatively, with editing I could achieve an identical enough aesthetic result regardless of the sensor type, etc. So yeah I don't buy into the hype that CCD's are 'filmic', as only film looks like film. So digital bodies, even going back almost 20 years lol, are all still essentially 'good enough' to me, so then it really comes down to the lens...
I think that nowadays, with any RAW-capable camera, any color profile can be recreated. There are companies like Cobalt Image that specifically sell old CCD profiles for modern cameras. As you also mentioned, the lens is even more important than the sensor for a vintage look.
@@TheBigNegative-PhotoChannel Yeah sensors are so good now, with huge dynamic range and bit-depths etc, that RAW's are super malleable. And I had heard about Cobalt somewhere else and it sounded interesting, like they really took care to dial in the profiles. I find the Fuji profiles in Lightroom to be pretty good, but definitely not identical to the real filmsims.
The other thing I forgot to mention was the ISO performance and noise, which had differences. The D200's CCD had a 'nicer' looking high iso grain, which could be due to the smaller 10MP sensor and larger photosites, but it also suffered more from color rather than luminance noise. Granted it was unusable above iso 1600 haha. And while the X-Trans sensor can struggle with demosaicing and 'worms' from oversharpening, I think it also had a much less 'digital' noise pattern. So maybe that's a reason why both sensors might lend themselves to be considered more film like. But the experience of shooting Fuji, the colour science, creating filmsims, etc., definitely helps achieve a look straight out of camera that I think is unmatched by other companies right now.
Mein Bruder, hast du gut geschlafen? Wie fühlst du dich?
Endlich, was für eine Vergleichen. Ich rocke meine tz10 als die zweite Kamera.. immer neben die MP und es geht… es passt.. für alles was länger ist, und weiter ist.. ehrlich gesagt. Ich benutze die für commercial benutzt.. und niemand sag nichts. Das erklärt alles. Die Emotion über die Kamera.
Du bist der Champion. Bis nächstes Mal. Sorry dass du nicht nrw aus. Das ist eine positive Ding. 🤣
hervorragend gut geschlafen. Ist zur Zeit nur etwas warm. :D Jau die point & shoots haben wirklich eine sehr gute Reichweite ich finde es nur schade das sie kein raw speichern können das würde sie soooo viel besser machen. Als zweitkamera aber durchaus brauchbar. besser den shot haben als nicht haben. 👌bis zum nächsten mal :D ich bin aus Thüringen das ist leider nicht so positiv. :D
Bruder 🤣 ich stimme zu, mit alles was du sagst… Thüringen Ohje, 😆du bist um die Ecke, ich komme aus Australia aber in Bielefeld. Aber Bielefeld, gibt es nichts 😆 ich muss Thüringen besuchen 🥲 sie sagen da ist Porn Capital der Welt.. 🤔 schön dass du gut geschlafen hast. Das ist so nice.. Vampir sind nicht so nett 😅 bis nächstes mal 🫡 🦘
snappiness shot some great pictures with an old fuji digicam tho. maybe classic chrome is bad on it? if i understand right u used that for all the pictures.
Yeah, I only used Classic Chrome for everything. However, the standard mode doesn't differ fundamentally. It's probably more due to this specific camera. Snappiness usually picks cameras that have larger sensors and are more likely older professional models.
I know you didn't like the shots from the Fuji but I actually love the punchy look of the F20. I own an F30, which I really really like but unfortunately it has quite a bit of dust on the sensor. Great video my friend! :)
Thanls.Well, "not liking" means... The Fuji JPEGs were just as good as always, except the highlights or shadows were blown out. Which at least the Lumix didn’t do. Maybe the F30 doesn’t do that. 🤷♂️ Dust on the sensor is really a problem. I once tried to repair a point & shoot camera but unfortunately broke it in the process. 😅
One of the things Ive noticed , you don't use a Chrome settings for high contrast situations. Even chrome film was never looking good in those.
That's true. However, Classic Chrome doesn't look particularly different from the standard profile. I probably could have made a comparison image for that.
Did you accidentally set your Fujifilm camera to Velvia film sim? 🤣
No, unfortunately not. It was really the worst Classic Chrome sim I've ever seen. :D
Damn how come you've uploaded this yesterday. I'm currently studying the working principle of CCD sensors in a MEMS devices lecture and wondered if there's some comparison around so I searched for exactly this lol. CCD sensors are denser and feature less noise in theory.
Here’s a video just for you. XD I find it a bit unfortunate that CCD wasn’t further developed; it would be nice to have more options in the grain characteristics for different cameras. X-Trans is still the exception.
@@TheBigNegative-PhotoChannelDespite CMOS being less costly to manufacture CCD would have been very difficult to advance further due to it's inherent design. They had to split the sensors into taps just to get any speed out of them and the four tap CCD sensors were the last made before switching to CMOS. I have a Sony ICX694 CCD industrial camera that is four taps and max speed of 27fps full sensor. It has it's strong points such as global shutter and raw latitude that makes pulling details out of shadows easy. Definitely protect the highlights on these as when they're gone they're not coming back. They would be good candidates for cinematography at least with enough speed to shoot 24fps in a super 16 size format.
I sold a few ccd pocket cameras. Buyers where young and they where interested in flashlight performance. They use these cameras at parties or Spieleabende and not for street photographie.. Smartphones do not have xenon flashlight but led..
I only know the videos from social media where people take their CCD cameras, set the white balance to cloudy, and then act like it's on par with film photography. But it makes more sense to use those little cameras more for parties.
Do you intentionally overexpose your film photos, or do you get this soft contrast / colour look in post? I also liked the film photos most...
Yeah, I overexpose the film by +1 because Kodak Gold tends to lose details when underexposed. However, the look really comes together in post-processing. I mainly just increase the exposure and adjust some contrast settings. I even made a tutorial on it once.
@@TheBigNegative-PhotoChannel Thank you Daniel!
@@TheBigNegative-PhotoChannel Would the film photos look closer to the CCD photos if you didn't over expose or edit them?
@@Daniel-ku4dp Honestly, the other cameras tend to underexpose more :D but yeah, you can bring them closer together through exposure. In a few cases in the video, you can see that when the lighting is balanced, they all look very similar.
I love my ricoh gr with a ccd sensor look but only 10 mpixel 😢
I don't think it's that bad if cameras only have 10 megapixels. It always depends on whether the lens is sharp enough. I mean, iPhones have screens that are "only" 3.6 megapixels "big". :D
Should compare Leica M9 - full frame CCD vs full frame film. 😀
I would have liked to, but unfortunately, I don't know anyone with an M9 :D
This is crazy, I own 3 of the 4 cameras that you used in this video lol
Oh, that's really a crazy coincidence. :D Which camera did you not have? :D
@@TheBigNegative-PhotoChannel the FujiFilm F20 lol
Your video is great, no malice intended, but I choose cmos
Thanks, I wanted to compare it myself with all the hearsay about how good CCD is. But CMOS is definitely more advanced nowadays.
I need to learn more about DX code hacking. I have a few point and shoot cameras with auto coding and woild like to try it. To the interwebs! Also, #asscrhrome 😂
DX code hacking from 200 to 100 is quite simple. You just take some black electrical tape and cut out a small rectangle. Otherwise, there are even stickers that you can simply stick on the film if you don't feel like fiddling around. :D
Zoomdate film wins
Yeah, real film still looks the best and most authentic. Point & shoots don't even come close.
CCD is not filmic! I don't know who the first one to start this trend :)) but older ccd look so ass. the only ccd camera i use is hasselblad h4d and the iso performance is so bad,only at 50 or 100 it does give it a paintery feel if you look it long enough but that is.
Good point, when you watch old M9 and M8 videos, people swear by that filmic look. :D But on UA-cam, people do tend to exaggerate to justify their Leica cameras. Lol.
I don't see the point of this video. You don't compare sensors but in-camera processing that can easily be adjusted.
Basically, I'm comparing the integrated color profiles of the manufacturers. Essentially, you can make CMOS look like CCD and vice versa. However, people specifically buy CCD sensors because of the "legendary" film-like color profiles. The in-camera processing is, however, heavily limited in terms of dynamic range, especially when the cameras don't have RAW.
CCD does not have better color. It's just old color science that people notice that they like.
A company called Cobalt Image sells a Leica and the Pentax medium format CCD look with your CMOS camera.
Ah, I even know Cobalt Image. They seem to still create the most accurate presets you can buy. Maybe I’ll try some of theirs.