Timestamps: 0:40 - Class Changes 2:11 - Is Glimmer Dead? 3:18 - Filling Glimmer void? 5:30 - Holy Power 8:00 - Early look at Covenants 15:15 - What feels good so far 16:18 - What I want to see changed so far Keep in mind these are super early thoughts after 6 or 7 dungeons. I will probably make an updated video later on maybe when we get to beta. But this is what stood out in my mind and my thoughts about the class in general at this point of alpha.
Great breakdown nice to have someone who actually plays and understands the class go over the changes for us who don’t have alpha, main HPal eight now thinking of playing it for mythic plus but maybe going back to dps for raid, pally feels too fun for raid due too glimmer interested to play this in keys though, keep the content coming!
Nice vid! Just a quick note for the spenders in this video, early on there was a bug where spenders werent getting any bonus healing from the mastery effect. That partially explain why they feel so weak, also the char isnt max lvl. In time and with some extra crit, etc I think the spec will feel quite nice to play.
I hope you make videos on the other class since you was by far the most useful i have seen so far, most of them focus on information we already know by reading wowhead and your video focus on things we could only know by experience.
Personally, I don't really enjoy glimmer for hpally, However, I do hope they fix the paladin so that BOTH play styles are viable, let the player decide how they want to play their Hpally. Just because I don't enjoy the glimmer play style doesn't mean that someone who does enjoy it shouldn't be able to play it. Thank you for the video!
Thank you for posting this - been very hard to find first impressions and feedback from actual holy paladins. Curious about your thoughts on some other changes that you didn't cover here: - Infusion of Light swap (now reduces FoL cast and increases HL healing), along with rebalancing of FoL (10.5% nerf) and HL (6.7% buff) - Mana nerfs (new 12% cost on CS, 40% increase on HS, 38% increase on HL) - 12s Consecration CD (if you aren't doing M+ much this is probably less of a concern for you) - Addition of Hammer of Wrath - Does the 50% reduction to LoD's Beacon passthrough healing still exist? If so, is there really any place for LoD if your BoL target needs healing?
Good points. I was kind of worried about the video length which is why I didn't cover some of these. And I also want to leave bigger topics open to more extensive discussion in future videos. One of those being the mana costs and infusion of light by proxy. I definitely could feel the increased mana costs in the dungeons I was running but some of that could likely be contributed to doing the fights incorrectly, poor tuning on the damage intakes on fights/mobs, and even undertuned healing spells requiring me to use more spells to heal the group. As far as the infusion swap, I'm not super bothered by it because it just pushes the two abilities closer towards their individual identities. Flash of Light being a super quick and expensive heal, and Holy Light being a slow cast but high heal. I did cover the 12s consecration CD at the very end of the video as one of the things I would like to see changed. Feels very awkward now with such a long cooldown, and even if it scales with haste it will be a while until we get enough haste for this to be really noticeable. Hammer of Wrath is whatever to me, not something I'm super excited about but I also don't hate it. For LoD beacon passthrough I think it is 20% on retail right now and not 50%? I am definitely not confident about that though. And I don't think I really have ever or will ever make the conscious decision to LoD specifically for beacon healing specifically, that might change now that it actually is resource gated and not time-gated, but only time will tell. How some of the changes feel and how it affects rotation/decisionmaking will be hard to comment on until raid testing.
@@Mytholxgy Ah sorry, I missed you covering the Consecration change at the end. Regarding the IoL change, I'm most worried from a PvP standpoint, where your toolkit right now revolves around IoL-buffed HLs. 2.5s casts in PvP sound awful. The IoL buff for FoL seems really pointless too, as you've got a cast time lower than the GCD (so it doesn't improve your throughput at all), but it's not instant so it's not like you get to do it on the move. Regarding LoD, on live it's a 20% passthrough, which is 50% of the "normal" amount for other spells. I was curious if this is true on alpha too, as that would mean 25% passthrough instead of 50%. In that case, if your beacon target needs healing, LoD's max value is 1.25 x (5 * 50% SP) or 312.5% SP, whereas WoG is 1.5 x 200% SP, or 300% SP. It seems, if your beacon needs healing, only in the very specific scenario of 5 targets being in range and needing healing will you ever use LoD - WoG is better in every other case, which feels unbalanced.
Correction to the devo change. It wasn't the meteor effect that they changed but it was the range of the minimum DR%. So instead of having a 15 yard range on the minimum DR, it is 40 yards now. Shoutout to Lilaith for correcting me on this.
Finally a holy pala video. Interesting the current situation for glimmer. I hope it stays a viable option and not a mandatory choice. I really enjoy that play style (being a rather new hpal). Definitely looking forward to let people die for wings :) Aura switch off the GCD would be really nice.
Great video. Completely agree on the finisher aspect being lackluster. Any thoughts on glimmer in BFA and Shadowlands as a dominant playstyle compared to the playstyle late MoP and Legion? I played the glimmer-build pre nerf for several weeks in mythic raids and could not find any enjoyment. HS->CS->CS->HS->CS etc etc. Looking back on logs from MoP and Legion I figured why I prefer pre glimmer paladin. There was much more variety in ability usage due to different situations required different spells. Additionally the need for respeccing / changing out items for different roles. (Shamans in Siege of Orgrimmar). I do not know if it is the lack of a AOE-builder or the "glimmer-solves-everything" aspect that turns me off. As of now Holy paladin is unappealing, but I'm keeping an eye on Shadowlands.
Edit: Oh and you answered my question later in the video with exactly the same logic as I was using. Not even gonna remove the comment lol. A question, as someone who has just started up their holy pala again (main resto shaman), isn't Glimmer looking good considering the Kyrian(Bastion) covenant ability is throwing out 5 holy shocks at once on targets within 30 yards, with a 1 min or 1½ min CD? Wouldn't that weigh up for the poor secondary stats early expansion and make it super strong later on?
So a lot of AoE has been toned down (at least the number of targets anyway), do you think they're trying to encourage people to use CC? At the beginning of the video you mention how the mobs are "overturned" in the dungeon, but your group doesn't CC at all with the Rogue or Warlock. Taking one or even two targets out of those pulls and setting a kill order would probably make things a lot easier.
Can’t say for sure what their intentions are, maybe increased pack difficulty is there way of stopping crazy pulls? But I think this would be the wrong way to go about design personally. So I hope that it is just poor tuning. I can say for sure though there are things that are overturned, we are running normal dungeons and stuff shouldn’t feel that difficult on the lowest form of difficulty.
@@Mytholxgy I disagree. Even on normal, CC _should_ be a thing if you don't out gear the place. Pulling an entire pack and just AOE-ing it down, rinse, repeat isn't compelling gameplay at all in my eyes. Back in late Vanilla and into TBC and WotLK. every player with CC knew they had to Sheep/Sap/Shackle/Trap Moon or X and the kill target with Skull. I can't remember exactly when that started changing, maybe around WoD, but it's gotten to a point now where people don't even attempt CC anymore because they know it'll be broken nearly instantly. If trash pulls are too hard, just get the Rogue to sap one of the humanoids. You also had a Warlock, they could Seduce as well on especially tough pulls, pull the rest back and AoE then down if you really want too and then burn the CC'd targets would have made the healing a lot easier.
The coefficient for glimmer is currently the same coefficient as the rising mist heal and rising mist isn't capped at 8 targets...so yeah it's pretty dead atm. With that coefficient to get the same healing on live as 3 heroic level glimmer traits you'd need over 32,000 intellect on live =( not gonna happen.
Before i start, i'd like to say i don't have alpha. This is all assuming. I'm aware all of this could be changed before release I've watched quite a few videos and streams about holy paladin and one thing i notice is it seems they don't generate enough holy power compared to ret and prot. I could be wrong about this though. Even if you go beacon of faith, in bfa, you're not supposed to focus the people with your beacons, since they're healed when you heal other players nearby. I would like to assume this will be the same in sl, since the beacon itself hasn't changed much. This means you wont get much holy power from healing your beacons. Yes, theres crusader strike, holy shock, and holy avenger if you're talented into that, but crusader strike and holy shock both have short cooldowns, where you wont generate any holy power. Holy avenger is a 3 minute cooldown, and i dont really want to have to rely on it to heal, since we already need avenging wrath to heal a lot. I think they either need to buff spenders as Myth said, or increase our holy power generation I'd also like to see other peoples opinions about this, especially ones who've played holy paladin on alpha
I will probably make a video going over the talent tree in-depth analyzing each talent once I collect more data (which could take a while). I'm specifically interested in Saved by the Light vs. Holy Prism vs. Judgment of Light. As well as Glimmer vs. Beacon of Faith, because the more I think about it the more I think glimmer could be good not from the fact of it being a good talent, but Faith/Virtue just being situationally bad.
This to me is a classic moment when Blizzard over thinks something. Holy Paladin was in a good place why screw it up just enhance it. Also, can you confirm "Infusion of Light"? I heard that the Holy Shock crit now gives you a quicker Flash of Light and a Stronger Holy Light, On live you get a stronger Flash of Light or quicker Holy Light which seems to make more sense. Flash of Light is already quick why change this. Of course i am going from chatter not facts as i don't have alpha. The way Infusion of Light works now is great in PVP. Changing this could really change healing in PVP.
I can confirm that change is real (faster FoL, bigger HL). And I agree, it's an awful change, especially in PvP. I can't imagine trying to play the usual build with Light's Grace with a 2.5s cast time on HL. Guess it's a good thing we're getting Concentration Aura...
I feel like I wouldnt mind going back to how Hpallys played in legion with big holy shocks and using your infusion but i do like the glimmer play style but I still dont know how i feel with holy power I dont mind it but Im not a big fan of it when it was in the game and dunno how i feel about it coming back
Really loved that playstyle! Did not enjoy Glimmer, because while I did have fun playing it - I didn't really feel unique anymore. I also had a disc priest and monk and well, they all felt the same. I enjoyed the crit-style paladin in Legion that was massive single target burst and tank heals, double beacons, etc. No other healer did what the holy paladin could do.
@@kiwilemonade1289 Yeh I totally agree the legion playstyle was very fun big cirts good single target and cant go past old aura of sac healing that was fun
Your ilvl is lower than a bfa normal right now with those template characters, that may be why the spenders feel bad. Also, it’s way too soon to worry about numbers.
They're literally ruining the only fun part about holy pally. By giving them the worst spender in the game, shitty holy power, they're making them the worst, most agonizingly boring shit in the game. Fantastic. 10 years and they literally can never not ruin everything they touch.
if they leave spenders like this - i will play other class after playing 10 years of paladin xD it feels awfull to spend gcd's on holy power when it doesn't actually heal
Yeah definitely, exactly how I feel in regards to where the spenders are at. I would be shocked if they didn't make some adjustments to this so I wouldn't abandon ship just yet.
As someone who isn't deep into the game in it's current state. This video was a waste of time for me. You're just throwing names around without context or meaning. I shouldn't need WoW Head open on 2 other tabs to keep up. I also feel that you are approaching this from a high-level-meta perspective which is unjustified at this point in time (where numbers will change a lot).
Seeing as he is addressing the current state of glimmer build for paladin and how the holy power spenders feel weak, it very much so addresses play from a casual standpoint too. Of course, as he said before, numbers are subject to change, but he is giving his thoughts after trying alpha.
I hope Glimmer gets looked at. It's the most fun I have had with paladin since Legion. The old playstyle and hoping for a critical kills me. Legion it was fun and then they nerfed the crit. Of course I am all for BOTH playstyles being viable because I think people deserve to play what they like.
Timestamps:
0:40 - Class Changes
2:11 - Is Glimmer Dead?
3:18 - Filling Glimmer void?
5:30 - Holy Power
8:00 - Early look at Covenants
15:15 - What feels good so far
16:18 - What I want to see changed so far
Keep in mind these are super early thoughts after 6 or 7 dungeons. I will probably make an updated video later on maybe when we get to beta. But this is what stood out in my mind and my thoughts about the class in general at this point of alpha.
Really appreciate your vids, especially your nzoth hpal commentary! please keep these coming
Appreciate the insight from a high end raider - keep the healer alpha videos coming
Great breakdown nice to have someone who actually plays and understands the class go over the changes for us who don’t have alpha, main HPal eight now thinking of playing it for mythic plus but maybe going back to dps for raid, pally feels too fun for raid due too glimmer interested to play this in keys though, keep the content coming!
Nice vid! Just a quick note for the spenders in this video, early on there was a bug where spenders werent getting any bonus healing from the mastery effect. That partially explain why they feel so weak, also the char isnt max lvl. In time and with some extra crit, etc I think the spec will feel quite nice to play.
I hope you make videos on the other class since you was by far the most useful i have seen so far, most of them focus on information we already know by reading wowhead and your video focus on things we could only know by experience.
been watching your kill vids huge fan :D
Personally, I don't really enjoy glimmer for hpally, However, I do hope they fix the paladin so that BOTH play styles are viable, let the player decide how they want to play their Hpally. Just because I don't enjoy the glimmer play style doesn't mean that someone who does enjoy it shouldn't be able to play it.
Thank you for the video!
Great review! Good job! :)
Thank you for posting this - been very hard to find first impressions and feedback from actual holy paladins. Curious about your thoughts on some other changes that you didn't cover here:
- Infusion of Light swap (now reduces FoL cast and increases HL healing), along with rebalancing of FoL (10.5% nerf) and HL (6.7% buff)
- Mana nerfs (new 12% cost on CS, 40% increase on HS, 38% increase on HL)
- 12s Consecration CD (if you aren't doing M+ much this is probably less of a concern for you)
- Addition of Hammer of Wrath
- Does the 50% reduction to LoD's Beacon passthrough healing still exist? If so, is there really any place for LoD if your BoL target needs healing?
Good points. I was kind of worried about the video length which is why I didn't cover some of these. And I also want to leave bigger topics open to more extensive discussion in future videos. One of those being the mana costs and infusion of light by proxy. I definitely could feel the increased mana costs in the dungeons I was running but some of that could likely be contributed to doing the fights incorrectly, poor tuning on the damage intakes on fights/mobs, and even undertuned healing spells requiring me to use more spells to heal the group. As far as the infusion swap, I'm not super bothered by it because it just pushes the two abilities closer towards their individual identities. Flash of Light being a super quick and expensive heal, and Holy Light being a slow cast but high heal. I did cover the 12s consecration CD at the very end of the video as one of the things I would like to see changed. Feels very awkward now with such a long cooldown, and even if it scales with haste it will be a while until we get enough haste for this to be really noticeable. Hammer of Wrath is whatever to me, not something I'm super excited about but I also don't hate it. For LoD beacon passthrough I think it is 20% on retail right now and not 50%? I am definitely not confident about that though. And I don't think I really have ever or will ever make the conscious decision to LoD specifically for beacon healing specifically, that might change now that it actually is resource gated and not time-gated, but only time will tell. How some of the changes feel and how it affects rotation/decisionmaking will be hard to comment on until raid testing.
@@Mytholxgy Ah sorry, I missed you covering the Consecration change at the end. Regarding the IoL change, I'm most worried from a PvP standpoint, where your toolkit right now revolves around IoL-buffed HLs. 2.5s casts in PvP sound awful. The IoL buff for FoL seems really pointless too, as you've got a cast time lower than the GCD (so it doesn't improve your throughput at all), but it's not instant so it's not like you get to do it on the move.
Regarding LoD, on live it's a 20% passthrough, which is 50% of the "normal" amount for other spells. I was curious if this is true on alpha too, as that would mean 25% passthrough instead of 50%. In that case, if your beacon target needs healing, LoD's max value is 1.25 x (5 * 50% SP) or 312.5% SP, whereas WoG is 1.5 x 200% SP, or 300% SP. It seems, if your beacon needs healing, only in the very specific scenario of 5 targets being in range and needing healing will you ever use LoD - WoG is better in every other case, which feels unbalanced.
Correction to the devo change. It wasn't the meteor effect that they changed but it was the range of the minimum DR%. So instead of having a 15 yard range on the minimum DR, it is 40 yards now. Shoutout to Lilaith for correcting me on this.
Is it possible to see some resto shaman plays as well ?
Finally a holy pala video. Interesting the current situation for glimmer. I hope it stays a viable option and not a mandatory choice. I really enjoy that play style (being a rather new hpal). Definitely looking forward to let people die for wings :) Aura switch off the GCD would be really nice.
Great video. Completely agree on the finisher aspect being lackluster.
Any thoughts on glimmer in BFA and Shadowlands as a dominant playstyle compared to the playstyle late MoP and Legion?
I played the glimmer-build pre nerf for several weeks in mythic raids and could not find any enjoyment. HS->CS->CS->HS->CS etc etc.
Looking back on logs from MoP and Legion I figured why I prefer pre glimmer paladin. There was much more variety in ability usage due to different situations required different spells. Additionally the need for respeccing / changing out items for different roles. (Shamans in Siege of Orgrimmar). I do not know if it is the lack of a AOE-builder or the "glimmer-solves-everything" aspect that turns me off.
As of now Holy paladin is unappealing, but I'm keeping an eye on Shadowlands.
Edit: Oh and you answered my question later in the video with exactly the same logic as I was using. Not even gonna remove the comment lol.
A question, as someone who has just started up their holy pala again (main resto shaman), isn't Glimmer looking good considering the Kyrian(Bastion) covenant ability is throwing out 5 holy shocks at once on targets within 30 yards, with a 1 min or 1½ min CD? Wouldn't that weigh up for the poor secondary stats early expansion and make it super strong later on?
I hope glimmer will be still viable, I love the fast playstyle!
So a lot of AoE has been toned down (at least the number of targets anyway), do you think they're trying to encourage people to use CC? At the beginning of the video you mention how the mobs are "overturned" in the dungeon, but your group doesn't CC at all with the Rogue or Warlock. Taking one or even two targets out of those pulls and setting a kill order would probably make things a lot easier.
Can’t say for sure what their intentions are, maybe increased pack difficulty is there way of stopping crazy pulls? But I think this would be the wrong way to go about design personally. So I hope that it is just poor tuning. I can say for sure though there are things that are overturned, we are running normal dungeons and stuff shouldn’t feel that difficult on the lowest form of difficulty.
@@Mytholxgy I disagree. Even on normal, CC _should_ be a thing if you don't out gear the place. Pulling an entire pack and just AOE-ing it down, rinse, repeat isn't compelling gameplay at all in my eyes.
Back in late Vanilla and into TBC and WotLK. every player with CC knew they had to Sheep/Sap/Shackle/Trap Moon or X and the kill target with Skull. I can't remember exactly when that started changing, maybe around WoD, but it's gotten to a point now where people don't even attempt CC anymore because they know it'll be broken nearly instantly.
If trash pulls are too hard, just get the Rogue to sap one of the humanoids. You also had a Warlock, they could Seduce as well on especially tough pulls, pull the rest back and AoE then down if you really want too and then burn the CC'd targets would have made the healing a lot easier.
The coefficient for glimmer is currently the same coefficient as the rising mist heal and rising mist isn't capped at 8 targets...so yeah it's pretty dead atm. With that coefficient to get the same healing on live as 3 heroic level glimmer traits you'd need over 32,000 intellect on live =( not gonna happen.
Before i start, i'd like to say i don't have alpha. This is all assuming. I'm aware all of this could be changed before release
I've watched quite a few videos and streams about holy paladin and one thing i notice is it seems they don't generate enough holy power compared to ret and prot. I could be wrong about this though.
Even if you go beacon of faith, in bfa, you're not supposed to focus the people with your beacons, since they're healed when you heal other players nearby. I would like to assume this will be the same in sl, since the beacon itself hasn't changed much. This means you wont get much holy power from healing your beacons.
Yes, theres crusader strike, holy shock, and holy avenger if you're talented into that, but crusader strike and holy shock both have short cooldowns, where you wont generate any holy power. Holy avenger is a 3 minute cooldown, and i dont really want to have to rely on it to heal, since we already need avenging wrath to heal a lot.
I think they either need to buff spenders as Myth said, or increase our holy power generation
I'd also like to see other peoples opinions about this, especially ones who've played holy paladin on alpha
Could you do a video of showcasing some builds you believe are going to be good/are fun on alpha for both m+ and raid scenarios
I will probably make a video going over the talent tree in-depth analyzing each talent once I collect more data (which could take a while). I'm specifically interested in Saved by the Light vs. Holy Prism vs. Judgment of Light. As well as Glimmer vs. Beacon of Faith, because the more I think about it the more I think glimmer could be good not from the fact of it being a good talent, but Faith/Virtue just being situationally bad.
This to me is a classic moment when Blizzard over thinks something. Holy Paladin was in a good place why screw it up just enhance it. Also, can you confirm "Infusion of Light"? I heard that the Holy Shock crit now gives you a quicker Flash of Light and a Stronger Holy Light, On live you get a stronger Flash of Light or quicker Holy Light which seems to make more sense. Flash of Light is already quick why change this. Of course i am going from chatter not facts as i don't have alpha. The way Infusion of Light works now is great in PVP. Changing this could really change healing in PVP.
I can confirm that change is real (faster FoL, bigger HL). And I agree, it's an awful change, especially in PvP. I can't imagine trying to play the usual build with Light's Grace with a 2.5s cast time on HL. Guess it's a good thing we're getting Concentration Aura...
I feel like I wouldnt mind going back to how Hpallys played in legion with big holy shocks and using your infusion but i do like the glimmer play style but I still dont know how i feel with holy power I dont mind it but Im not a big fan of it when it was in the game and dunno how i feel about it coming back
Really loved that playstyle! Did not enjoy Glimmer, because while I did have fun playing it - I didn't really feel unique anymore. I also had a disc priest and monk and well, they all felt the same. I enjoyed the crit-style paladin in Legion that was massive single target burst and tank heals, double beacons, etc. No other healer did what the holy paladin could do.
@@kiwilemonade1289 Yeh I totally agree the legion playstyle was very fun big cirts good single target and cant go past old aura of sac healing that was fun
Your ilvl is lower than a bfa normal right now with those template characters, that may be why the spenders feel bad. Also, it’s way too soon to worry about numbers.
They're literally ruining the only fun part about holy pally. By giving them the worst spender in the game, shitty holy power, they're making them the worst, most agonizingly boring shit in the game. Fantastic. 10 years and they literally can never not ruin everything they touch.
if they leave spenders like this - i will play other class after playing 10 years of paladin xD it feels awfull to spend gcd's on holy power when it doesn't actually heal
Yeah definitely, exactly how I feel in regards to where the spenders are at. I would be shocked if they didn't make some adjustments to this so I wouldn't abandon ship just yet.
I kinda want glimmer to die. Never like it that much and I miss the old playstyle!
As someone who isn't deep into the game in it's current state. This video was a waste of time for me. You're just throwing names around without context or meaning. I shouldn't need WoW Head open on 2 other tabs to keep up. I also feel that you are approaching this from a high-level-meta perspective which is unjustified at this point in time (where numbers will change a lot).
Seeing as he is addressing the current state of glimmer build for paladin and how the holy power spenders feel weak, it very much so addresses play from a casual standpoint too. Of course, as he said before, numbers are subject to change, but he is giving his thoughts after trying alpha.
go learn the game and back here then
I hope Glimmer gets looked at. It's the most fun I have had with paladin since Legion. The old playstyle and hoping for a critical kills me. Legion it was fun and then they nerfed the crit. Of course I am all for BOTH playstyles being viable because I think people deserve to play what they like.