HMS Glorious, 1940: Scharnhorst & Gneisenau Ambush an Aircraft Carrier
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- Опубліковано 17 тра 2024
- As part of the Norwegian Campaign in 1940, the Germans launched Operation Juno. It saw German forces embarking into the Norwegian Sea. Intent on reclaiming Narvik and ousting Allied presence from northern Norway. While patrolling the coastline, the ships Gneisenau and Scharnhorst stumbled upon the British Aircraft Carrier HMS Glorious, on its way to Scapa Flow to evacuate Narvik...
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Hello HoH,Can You make The Battle Of Coral Sea/Lady Lex(USS lexington) Fate
So its Start On On 3-4 May, Japanese forces invaded and occupied Tulagi, although several supporting warships were sunk or damaged in a surprise attack by the U.S. carrier Yorktown. Alerted to the presence of enemy aircraft carriers, the Japanese fleet carriers advanced towards the Coral Sea to locate and destroy the Allied naval forces. On the evening of 6 May, the two carrier fleets closed to within 70 nmi (81 mi; 130 km) but did not detect each other in the darkness. The next day, both fleets launched airstrikes against what they thought was the enemy fleet carriers, but both sides actually attacked other targets. The U.S. sank the Japanese light carrier Shōhō, and the Japanese sank the Sims, a destroyer, and damaged the fleet oiler Neosho. On 8 May, both sides finally located and attacked the other's fleet carriers, leaving the Japanese fleet carrier Shōkaku damaged, the U.S. fleet carrier Lexington critically damaged and later scuttled, and the fleet carrier Yorktown lightly damaged.
Both sides having suffered heavy aircraft losses and carriers sunk or damaged, the two forces disengaged and retired from the area. Because of the loss of carrier air cover, Inoue also recalled the Port Moresby invasion fleet. Although the battle was a tactical victory for the Japanese in terms of ships sunk, it has been described as a strategic victory for the Allies. The battle marked the first time since the start of the war that a major Japanese advance had been turned back. More important, the damage to Shōkaku and the aircraft losses of Zuikaku prevented both ships from participating in the Battle of Midway the following month
This battle sounds like the closing stages of a World of Warships match, when its the carrier's turn to get plastered.
🤣
You read my mind. XDD
In world of warships you still have a shot if there is 2 DD’s supporting you.
DD’s in WoW are very effective against battleships when played right.
One nearby British warship heard Glorious' cries for help, HMS Devonshire an 8" heavy Cruiser. She was only 50 miles away but as she was carrying the King and Crown Prince of Norway and was under command to observe strict radio silence, there was little she could do
As it is the Admiralty papers on the sinking of the Glorious' task group have been sealed until 2040
Actually, HMS Devonshire only seems to have received signals from HMS Glorious which were, at best, garbled. It seems Glorious had been broadcasting on the Aircarft Carrier wave, not the Fleet wave.
@@dovetonsturdee7033 not true, the message was clear but the. Royals of Norway were carrying gold as well. A despicable act I think
@@ColinFreeman-kh9us Why do you think that this isn't true? Have you read 'Carrier Glorious' by John Winton? The Germans had a B-Dienst team aboard Gneisenau. They detected transmissions from Glorious, but did not detect any acknowledgements from any British warship or shore station.
As far as I know, the Germans had no obvious reason to lie.
Imagine if the British would have sailed in with the king of Norway on the bridge. Bet that would have made the history books
Wonder why Huge cock up You think
There was a documentary back in the 80's or 90's that stated D'Oyly-Hughes left Norway earlier because he wanted to court martial the head of his air groups who kept trying to tell him how to run a carrier which he had no idea about never having flown, so he told the Admiralty he was low on fuel so he could leave early. Having no cap or air recon on the day seems to reinforce that idea and the fact the official reports on this remain sealed only adds to it.
Just to correct one point, Guy D'Oyly-Hughes was a fully qualified pilot.
D'Oyly-Hughes is believed to have requested permission to steam ahead of the main evacuation convoy in order to process the documents for the court-martial of his Commander (Air), J. B. Heath, who had been left ashore.
The fact is that, whatever the circumstances, Vice-Admiral Wells should not have authorised his request.
D'Oyly-Hughes had learned how to fly, had been Executive Officer of another carrier, HMS Courageous, in 1931, and had spent some time on secondment to the Air Ministry. He had previously been asked by Wells to provide air support for ground troops, and had instructed his Commander (Air) to produce a plan. Heath refused, claiming that it was not 'a proper use of naval aircraft.'
Whether refusing a direct order to provide, at the very least, a plan to support British troops in need of help, was an appropriate response by Heath, is for others to discuss, but certainly it seems a number of Glorious' air crews did not agree with Heath.
Correct, the commanding officer D'Oyly-Hughes seemed more preoccupied prancing around and telling people down and wanted so badly court-martial anyone, and in particular experienced sailors and not a stick-jockey, who actually knew the proper way to command a carrier, thereby not caring about air patrol and proper procedures.
@@N0rdman D-Oyly-Hughes was an 'experienced sailor.' He had been in the Royal Navy since 1909, and had won two DSOs and a DSC for Gallantry in WW1. He experience was mainly in submarines, but he had served as Executive Officer of Glorious' sister, HMS Courageous, before being seconded to the Air Ministry. in the 1930s. He was also that rare beast, a senior officer in the RN who had learned to fly.
When appointed to HMS Glorious in June 1939, he must have appeared an excellent choice.
He did wish to court-martial his Commander (Air) J. B. Heath, because, after D'Oyly-Hughes had been given orders by his superior, Admiral Wells, to use Glorious' aircraft to carry out a mission in support of ground troops, Heath refused to plan it, claiming that it was 'not a proper use of naval aircraft.'
Clearly, something had gone badly wrong with D'Oyly-Hughes by the end, but surely he was entitled to expect the loyalty of his subordinate commander. Which he did not receive.
Ark Royal, by the way, had already carried out a number of such missions, without her Commander (Air) seeking to undermine his Captain.
@@dovetonsturdee7033 Just a total breakdown of the chain of command. Shows how easy it is for a couple of bad choices to snowball into a complete catastrophe in warfare.
These naval battles are amazing! Thanks For this
Her captain, had he survived, would have undoubtedly been court martialed and found guilty of incompetence. He had no CAP up, nobody in the crows nest and even the survivors disliked him, and the Germans were shocked she had no CAP flying. Scharnhorst is tied with HMS Warspite as scoring the longest ranged hit by two naval ships at around 26,400yds/24,140M with her third salvo in this battle.
Are you aware thar Glorious had left most of her air group behind as she had been sent to act as a ferry carrier for RAF Gladiators & Hurricanes being withdrawn from Norway, and she had wider lifts which could accommodate them.
At most, she seems to have had some ten Sea Gladiators and Swordfish aboard. Moreover, previously during the campaign, carriers returning to Britain had not flown such patrols.
@@dovetonsturdee7033 Yes, but that's no excuse to not have a CAP up or someone in the crow's nest while *in hostile waters*. That's simple incompetence.
@@torgothegrey3567 HMS Glorious was not in waters deemed to be hostile. RN carriers had passed through the same area more than once, without air patrols and totally unthreatened.
@@dovetonsturdee7033 Even the Germans aboard Scharnhorst were surprised the carrier had no CAP and took so long to notice them. German planes had sighted them and knew Glorious and Ark Royal were in the area, and yet Glorious still had no CAP up and nobody in the crow's nest.
@@torgothegrey3567 Ark Royal was not in the area, and Glorious was not spotted by German aircraft.
This is great! There isn't a lot of other channels with such a good quality. I like these naval videos as you are never get told about them.
And who was supposed to tell you??? 🤔 Put HMS Glorious in the search and you'll find a long list of videos going back years. It's in all books about British naval battles. Not exactly a 'secret' history.
It's way less covered.Dont lie to themselves
@@WW...allies 😆🤣
Not a problem, but you wrote "Schlachtschiffe" beneath the name of each battleship. That is the plural, impliing that there were multiple BBs with each symbol. The singular version would be "Schlachtschiff". So without the "e" on the end. Again, no problem, just a comment I wanted to leave.
Also it would be very nice if you would decrease the transparacy of the smokescreen Animation a bit. Atleast on my screen its very Hard to Spot.
Glad you already mentioned it, was bothering me too a little bit. Also, later he keeps calling them Battlecruisers, which one can make a case for I guess, but its just a little inconsistent
Good shout, thanks for pointing it out! I'll make sure to decrease the transparency of the smokescreen as well.
@@Jadegreif I believe they were battlecruisers.
@@yehudacohen9151 There is no definitive answer. The line between a battlecruiser and fast battleship will always be blurry as the very definition of "battlecruiser" varies wildly for every nation that utilized them. Just to give a couple of examples: on one hand you have the Kongou-class which the Japanese called battleships after they slapped on extra armor and better boilers yet they were only about as well armored as the Renown-class battlecruisers. On the other hand, there is the famous Hood, which is overwhelmingly called a battlecruiser yet the British added so much armor during her construction that she was practically just a really fast Queen Elizabeth-class battleship. In the case of the Scharnhorsts, they were called battleships by the very navy that operated them but their form, a fast light battleship, and the way they were used as ocean raiders were actually similar to the WW1 German version of the battlecruiser.
I was unaware of this engagement. Thanks to your postings I am learning more about the conflict I thought I knew very well.
I'm still astonished to this day that D'Oyly-Hughes didn't have any planes in the air. He could have shoved the land planes overboard (the men were the important cargo) and flown spotter planes. But he did nothing, and blundered into the ambush blind. He should never have been commanding a carrier because he seems not to have understood how to do it.
Dunno if it was his fault If he was ordered to carry those extra fixed-wing planes.
The Hurricanes and Gladiators had been taken below, and Glorious only had ten of her own aircraft aboard. Other carriers which had passed through that area earlier in the campaign had not, apparently, had aircraft aloft either.
@@dovetonsturdee7033 You could be right. Thanks for the correction if you are.Bear in mind it's easy to think we know something after reading mutually agreeable sources earlier.
He had No planes in the air due to the fact they had No Propellers!
Ben Barker(Grandson of Ardent Captain LT CMDR Barker):
Glorious was attempting to carry out Churchill's Operation Paul. Glorious launched no planes because the Swordfish were not battleworthy and she had no other planes capable of launching from her deck. The 5 Swordfish brought to the deck were not armed, because they had been stripped and fuel tanks added to carryout Operation Paul. Glorious had no CAP because all the fighters were exlusively used to defend the convoy per Admiral Pound's orders. The only other planes onboard were RAF Hurricanes recovered from Norway and they were tightly stowed onboard ship. Devonshire did receive the SOS and did not pass it on to the Admiralty. The ship went to battlestations and picked up speed. The admiral sat in the corner and chain-smoked because he thought he would be punished for leaving Glorious to her fate. The British Admiralty was alerted by the Norwegians and Bletchley Park as to the launching of Operation Juno by the Germans. It was also detected by a RAF squadron but a warning was never sent. The ship was not racing back for a "courts martial". It was racing back to offload and pickup additional moddified Swordfish do conduct Operation Paul. The Glorious' captain only brought the court martial forward because air commander Heath refused the dry run for Operation Paul some days earlier. He was charged for "cowardice in the face of the enemy" even though it was a training mission and faced no enemy.(Operation Bottle) The captains of Ardent and Acasta were denied VCs because no senior officer witnesses survived the battle, even though according to official German sources, Ardent and Acasta acted heroically and skillfully while laying smoke for Glorious and torpedoing Scharnhorst. If you want to blame anyone for 1,500 deaths, blame Churchill and the 1st Sea Lord, because it was all their fault.
Edit: Grammar
Your voice and narration is the best. Love your channel.
HoH Dude, you do a wonderful job. Keeping people interested in history is very important. Thank you! 🙂
Thanks for watching!
Such a tragic loss of life for the British. Great video. Glad to see that little known events of WWII have been covered.
I'm surprised the carrier didn't have scout planes aloft, or a CAP. That's the big advantage the carrier has - view beyond the horizon. It just seemed like a bunch of dysfunctional newbies. Maybe it was early in the war...
Initially, I'd thought it was simply because their deck was full of planes & thus couldn't launch, a situation which happened with American & Japanese fleets later in the war...but then he said they started preparing to launch, which means they could've launched...
Perhaps the air temps were too low/conditions were unsafe for ongoing launch & retrieval?
But I suspect they were far too reliant on signals intercepts by that point, & didn't take the most basic precautions because they hadn't heard there was a threat.
The reason why HMS Glorious didn't have any plane scouting or ready for launch is because her captain was one of the old stuck up officers who believes planes were a joke and battles were to be fought with guns... and his idiocy costed the lives of thousands of men...
@@TinKnight I've hear that D'Oyly-Hughes was a "battleship man" who didn't think aircraft carriers were particularly important. He was apparently in a hurry to get back to tghe Royal Navy's anchorage at Scapa Flow so that he could court-martial his air group commander, who he apparently saw as insubordinate. The air group commander had already been grounded and sent back to the UK before Narvik was evacuated, thus surviving the debacle. D'Oyly-Hughes' seeming eagerness to court-martial the other officer apparently took priority in his judgment over launching air patrols.
@@elennapointer701 An old stuck officer and a battleship man but in command of a aircraft carrier. What can go wrong?
It seems like it was nothing more or less than criminal ineptitude.
Amazing work as always!
My understanding is that the officers and crew of HMS Acasta and their valiant last stand (and subsequent loss of most of their complement) were not honored and largely ignored by the Royal Navy, even after the war, probably in part from a reluctance to draw attention to a defeat that was compounded by a number of errors which should not have happened on the part of the RN.
Actually the awards documents for Acasta and Ardent explain why they were not awarded. It was the admiralty’s opinion that given the importance of the convoys to the North, after the Glorious had sank the Acasta should have shadowed and reported the Germans movements to protect the convoys to the North. Sacrificing the ship didn’t help…..not my opinion
These naval battle introductions..good doing and informative introducing....thank you ( house of history ) channel for sharing
A great 'what if'. WI: the carrier had a different captain, one who knew something of carrier operations. Or, if permission to depart early was refused and stayed with Ark Royal. Or, put up recce flights to scout for any danger. Or, if the 'Twins' were spotted by a RAF Coastal Command patrol - leasing to strikes by Ark Royal & Glorious aircraft.
Great vid!
Thank you!
Love the videos, but I find it hard to believe that the aircraft carrier had a mooring point at Bardufoss (2:33), as it's far inland with no access to the sea. The closest mooring points would be Sørreisa, Sjøvegan or Finnsnes. However, there were planes from the RAF stationed at Bardufoss and Elvenes airfields. Maybe it was one of the squadrons was placed there temporarily or something.
Hahaha! Every time I begin to think that I have learned all there is to know about WWII, A new story pops up. I somehow missed the documentary mentioned below and have never heard of this event before now. Thank you for this!
I got inspired by HOF's battle animation especially those cute ww2 battleships on how they animated that filled my room with huge lego ww2 ships, I even spent almost like $300 on just lego battleships, Assembling it all day and after, I display it, Its really worth it
Great video and good animation.
Know the story and must say it seems that the Glorious was a victim to get the whole other fleet out of norway, more like planned to get her sunk and escape.
The second convoy came home and was a massive fleet. Scharnhorst was hit in the battle with torpedoes and must repair.
That resulted that the german ships must sail to port to repair Scharnhorst and the big convoy escaped in this time.
Thanks for an interesting video!
This is so surreal. My great-grandfather died on HMS Acasta, so it was a very strange experience to hear that name as I was chilling out before bed. Maybe if the Glorious had a bloody lookout posted then my Grandma would have grown up with a dad.
Meanwhile my grandfather was an intelligence officer aboard Scharnhorst. He nearly died during the occupation of Norway by an air strike on Scharnhorst.
The whole thing is bizarre in terms of decision making
The captain of Glorious was not experienced as a carrier commander and didn't rate carriers very highly. He apparently resented being foced to captain what he saw as a glorified transport ship instead of the battleships he was trained on and much preferred. It didn't help that he's grounded his air group commander and was eager to get back to the UK in order to court-martial him.
Me ha encantado el documental. Muy buen trabajo. Enhorabuena desde España
I wonder if you could do the heroic fight of HMS Glowworm against the Admiral Hipper
The Brits were a bit arrogant in the early days of the war. Why the Carrier and Destroyers were not at battle stations heading home to be prepared for anything is beyond stupidity. Atsa minimum they should have had air patrols up, steaming at full speed, and plenty of lookouts, and the Swordfish armed and ready to go.
Great video. The only suggestion I have is the volume of the background music can be distracting to what your actually saying. Apart from that thoroughly enjoyed this video.
Noted!
Pure incompetence to allow a carrier to travel without proper escorts. At a minimum, CAPs should have been up.
Yeah but an overcrowded flight deck interfered with routine flight operations.
@@jonshive5482 No, it wasn't. Oh, and define 'proper escorts.'
@@dovetonsturdee7033 My understanding was that fixed-wing Hurricanes interfered with flight operations. Could be wrong. You'll have to ask the OP what he/she meant by "proper escorts."
@@jonshive5482 No. The reason for using Glorious as opposed to Ark Royal was precisely because the Hurricanes could be taken below using her wider lifts.
Previously, carriers sailing to and from Norway had not had significant escorts.
@@dovetonsturdee7033 Proper escorts would be enough force to defend itself against an enemy capable of sinking a carrier.
Epic presentation. Direct information, presented with flair ,and understanding of the subject matter.
Kreigsmarine surface operations are less famous then the U- Boat , and light forces actions during the conflict.
Exploration of the actions of the German Disguised Raiders would be most fascinating.
The Atlantis , commanded by Erich Rugge , and Michal , lee by Helmuth von Rockteshell, are two very colorful officers, operations very effective..
Of note on the Operation Juno : Admiral Marshall was a swashbuckling U- Boat commander in WWI who held the Pour Le Merit .
Hugh Daley was a British Submsriner in WW I !
Great video! All war is terrible but there must have been a special kind of horror as men realized they were trapped in a sinking coffin being pummeled by thousand pound shells!
Thank you!
So sensitive is the Royal Navy about this event, the report about will be classified for decades yet.
Yaaaaaay. I think I suggested that video on a former video not too long ago :)
Great video. One thing, german ships were either Battlecruisers or Battleships. They can not be both. You used those interchangeably which is incorrect. In fact they were both battleships.
Its not really surprising that Scharnhorst and Gneisenau where on target fast, accurate out to long range and where not really hindered by the smoke screens, when you know that both had functional multi purpose radar systems that could be used for both searching and gunnery. Something no other navy possessed in 1940. Those systems are also very poorly understood and often downplayed without any serious supporting argumentation. There is a lot, and I mean a lot of utter nonsense written and claimed about German radar systems.
actually the germans and the brits had their radar but used them both "not the best way". Regarding the frequency used german radar was far more suited for fire control than british but inteded to be used for surveillance. the british vice versa. also by frequency the german radar was more effected by weather, especially rain. Later in the war german efforts more tended to passive radar or detecting radar on warships, most on Uboats, than on development of active radar for attack.
I support your opinion that as good the influence of Radar on allied side is known a understood - like Battle of Britainor sinking of the Scharnhorst - there is lots of it to discover or publish on german radar technology in WW2 for AntiAir and Naval use
@@edelmann4388 I think its far more fundamental than that.
Seetakt fundamentally was multi purpose radar system. It was both surveillance and gunnery. These sets had two modes, one general search and the other for gunnery with much narrower bearing accuracy. And that is where the real question lays. Calais B FuMG 40G achieved 0.1 degrees of bearing accuracy in 1940. This was a land based Seetakt used for coastal gunnery. Now Bismarck and Prinz Eugen also seem to have been fitted with FuMG 40G before sailing out for Rheinübung. If that is the case, it would explain an awful lot about what happened to HMS Hood. It wasn't just Bismarck which was on target so fast. Prinz Eugen was even faster and Prinz Eugen its radar was known to be functional.
Another issue is the magnetron and centimetric radar. The Germans started off with a magnetron and experiments with 13.5cm and 48cm wavelengths. After the successful 1935 trials in front of the Raeder with 48cm, GEMA decided to temporarily abandon the magnetron and opted for triodes, eventually settling on the 82cm wavelength. They didn't do that because nobody believed centimetric radar was impossible. They did that because magnetrons are inherently unstable and experience frequency drifts. That was causing issues with achieving range. So GEMA accepted the lower, more stable power delivered by triodes and upped the wavelengths. This was very much opposed by the NVA, a German navy research organisation. They wanted centimetric and narrow beams because they would allow much smaller antennas.
Meanwhile Hans Hollman published two books about his magnetron and some applications. Much to the dismay of the German navy.
That seems to have inspired magnetron and centimetric radar development in the UK.
Another accidental discovery in detecting an aircraft, would lead to Freya. Freya started off as a 2m wavelength air search radar, eventually being fixed at 1.2m. Meanwhile within the German navy, a debate started how to best employ radar. Fleet command favoured the tactical possibilities of radar like situational awareness and emphasised maximum range, willing to give up some bearing accuracy. The weapons office wanted maximum accuracy and a focus on gunnery. GEMA managed to achieve both in Seetakt, thus also settling the issue.
That is another key point that is often missed in these discussions. Because the RN and USN had search radar first and developed separate gunnery systems later, does not mean that is the only way to do it. The Germans had a multi purpose system from the start. Later on, they also started developing separate tactical surveillance radars. For that application, centimetric radar proved to be quite an improvement. That is the element the Germans where behind. But it was not their development emphasis or goal. They tried centimetric radar for gunnery, but eventually achieved both gunnery and surveillance with decimetric wavelengths. The Germans came from the opposite direction, starting off with surface detection, then going for gunnery, later followed by aircraft detection. The US and UK had a completely different development trajectory.
Not basing their radar on the magnetron, did allow the Germans to develop into other directions. For example the Germans combined Freya with Würzburg for fighter direction. Würzburg was a narrow beam 53-54cm air search and directing system that later was also developed into a AA gunnery radar. The idea was that Freya would detect enemy aircraft at very long ranges and Würzburg would do the more fine direction finding and ascertaining coordinates for vectoring in fighters or searchlights. Mannheim would be your more dedicated AA gunnery system, based upon Würzburg. Würzburg Riese would also allow AA gunnery. The big one (pun intended) would be the further development of Freya into Mammut. That is a phased array. Making a phased array with a magnetron, would be difficult to say the least. I doubt it would be possible with WW2 technology and modern phased arrays don't use magnetrons either. I also have seen some murmurs that the late war FuMO 26 as fitted on Tirpitz and Prinz Eugen, was also a phased array. I don't know that for sure, but it could be possible seeing as Seetakt and Freya where closely related. But from what I have seen, FuMO 26 seems to have been very long range and accurate out to very long ranges.
If you want to know more, well this is probably the best book on German radar out there:
books.google.nl/books?id=fzHpBwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&hl=nl&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false
With the exception of "escort carriers" (i.e. converted merchant ships) ambushed at Leyte Gulf in 1944 this must've been the only time surface ships managed to close in on the new Queens of the Sea. Had Glorious' flight deck not been so overloaded with aircraft she would've been able to keep a Combat Air Patrol aloft constantly during daylight. Quite ironic, no?
Outside of the aftermath of the Battle of Santa Cruz islands with USS Hornet (or what was left of her) you are correct. Although I find it highly amusing about Cape Matapan where the RN brought in HMS Formidable into the line of battle with the QE class, AND she actually got to exchange some shots with her DP artillery mounts. I mean the lack of CAP is one thing but the captain didn't even have a look out posted in the crow's nest, basically the captain himself doomed the ship. He chose to leave early when he could have waited for the evacuation convoy the next day and the failure of the look outs not being posted
Actually No. Her decks were not crowded, as the RAF aircraft she had collected had been taken below. However, Glorious only seems to have had around ten of her usual Air Group aboard.
@@legoeasycompany Thanks for the clarification.
@@dovetonsturdee7033 Gotcha. Thanks.
@@jonshive5482 There is a useful, if slightly old, book about the sinking of HMS Glorious, called 'Carrier Glorious' and written by John Winton, which shows that a number of the assumptions made by people in posts on here are inaccurate.
Please don't think I am an admirer of d'Oyly-Hughes, by the way. Only that I can understand some of his actions.
The Courageous and and her sister Glorious were tragic tales indeed. One was lost due to poor tactics. The other, it seems to me, was the victim of total incompetence.
Would love to see you do a video on "Battle of North Cape". Keep up the hard work, love your content 👏
Great video again how about the bismark story or the graf spee
Can you do Battle of Narva 1700 ?
d'Oyly-Hughes was hastening home to court-martial his Cdr (flying), Heath, who had been left in limbo on another ship, not having been charged with any offence. A key error: the little-mentioned Vice-Adm Wells, in command of the carriers, should have refused permission for d'Oyly-Hughes to depart Norway with only 2 escorts.
The case should be a prime example for discussing in staff colleges the criteria for removing senior officers from command.
The battleships should have stopped for survivors or to drop boats, but at least they thought someone was coming for the brits. Scharnhorst was hit with the old irony stick later when her own crew was left for dead just the same by the British, for the threat of submarines in the area.
For some reason I thought the HMS glorious was sunk by a U-boat. I had no idea it fell prey to Scharnhorst and Gneisenau.
I knew the Royal navy lost a couple carriers to uboat attacks but I never knew that they had lost one to enemy surface units.
Her sister ship, Courageous, was lost to a U Boat months prior so you weren’t far off. Others being Ark Royal (terrible damage control) and Eagle.
Can you do the battle of manila bay? Thanks if you do it 😊
The problem was Glorious wasn't even steaming with all her boilers lit, else she could have outrun her attackers.
Bad choices from her Captain in wartime
How about a video on the Battle of Cartagena de Indias in 1741 Thanks
Rare case of capital ships defeating an aircraft carrier in WW2.
Great video thank you! Can you make a video for the naval battle of Elli and Limnos? With the legendary Battleship G. Averof
Do you have any good sources regarding that war?
Averof is a mediocre armored Cruiser and sure as hell no Battleship.
@@HoH Please send me your email and I will send you
@@hannesromhild8532 So what? This ship crushed the Turkish fleet twice by itself
@@HORMOVAS Yeah not as impressive as you think.
Why do you tell at the very beginning that Glorious was first detected by radar (wrong) and later in the video that the first detection was made by a lookout (correct)?🤔
it seems that fear is an alien concept to the british destroyer crews
The Germans all saluted the destroyer crew for their bravery in trying to protect glorious
nonsense. nobody had time or even an opportunity to do such in the middle of a Battle or even after.
Практически все знают про героический поход "Бисмарка" и только единицы знают имена командиров "Акасты" и "Ардента", двух героических эсминцев доказывающих что Британию называли "Владычицей морей" не за красивые мундиры!
note to anyone in power, don't assume that a daring capable submarine captain would make a capable aircraft carrier commander,
I have to give it to Churchill for promoting a commoner to such a position but he wasn't the man for the job, the skillsets required are different
Gambier Bay was the next Carrier to get sunked by gun ships in action. Yamato deserved that win, but she was denied her only chance.
Has the wrecks of all three ships ever been found.
Sad to hear about the fate of Captain Hughes!
They were battleships, you even wrote them yourself as Schlact=battle schiff= ship.
I would like to watch a video abaout the Teutonic Knights from you. Example :Battle on the Ice. Which is very iconc in the Teutonic Knights history.
I created this video 4.5 years ago (wow, time flies) before I learned how to animate videos. Maybe you'll enjoy it: ua-cam.com/video/XPPKRf-pnm4/v-deo.html
@@HoH oh, so you wont make more videoes abaout the Teutonic Knights?
@@johnpauljones4190 I didn't say that
@@HoH okay. Thank you. I waiting for that video.
How you gonna escort a carrier with only 2 destroyers?
Much like not having any aircraft aloft, I suspect they were assuming no threats since they hadn't been told there was a threat. And so they were just trying to get back to Britain as quickly as they could, rather than forming a proper escort.
Still seems mind-blowing, since U-boats were already an ongoing threat in the area even without the surface fleet.
It rather depends what you are ecorting the carrier against.
In addition to thinking the waters were safe, there is also the problem of "what ships can we spare for escort"? The UK in 1940 wasn't exactly in a good position naval wise; they were stretched thin fighting on 3 fronts, with most of their emergency pre war construction programs not yet completed (no King George V class for example, and only a small part of their new cruiser and destroyer force).
Scharnhorst is a Battleship not a battle cruiser
Great Video. I don't want to be a grammar nazi, but "Schlachtschiffe" is plural. Gneisenau and Scharnorst were "Schlachtschiffe" (Battleships) but just 1 of them would be a Schlachschiff (Battleship). You get what I mean? E.g.: at 3:28 you say "...including the schlachtschiffe gneisenau..." but it should be just "schlachtschiff" without the e. You used the plural while only talking about a single ship. It's just a minor thing and all, so nothing crazy. I just wanted to clarify for the future.
8:35
Scharnhorst and Gneisenau were Schllachtkreuzer - not Schlachtschiffe
By all accounts D'Oyly-Hughes had serious mental issues and the admiralty were keep to get him back and relieve him of his command though just who his sponcer was and exactly what happened behind the remains classified.
Did Glorious have a radar system?
No
Most ships at that time didn't have radar yet
Please 🙏 do a video on the 380th's raid on Bailikpan!
it's balikpapan dude
A battle that only happened because of human stupidity, not because carriers were actually vulnerable to letting battleships get close enough to them to shoot.
Do a video about the 452 Australia squadron in ww2
Battlecruisers... AAAAHHHHHAAHHH
It was a RN blunder to put in charge of the Glorious a man who didn't understand the importance of naval air power. The hurricanes on deck made it more difficult to launch aircraft but it was still negligent not to have air cover. By the time the 2 German pocket battleship were spotted HMS Glorious was steaming with the wind thus was not able to launch any aircraft without turning & steaming towards the enemy. The destroyer captains did their duty & paid the price.
The whole Norway campaign was another Churchill led fiasco. So many lives lost for no gain.
D'Oyly-Hughes was one of very few senior officers in the Royal Navy who had learned to fly, and between 1931 & 1934 he had been first Executive Officer of HMS Courageous, and then seconded to the Air Ministry for a time.
The Hurricanes were not on deck, they had been taken below, using Glorious' wider lifts.
Man this is the RN's Savo Island equivalent. A tragic set of unforced errors.
Doylly Floozies
😊
Dude May I Request New Section : the What If Section? Like What if at Indian Ocean Raid ( What if Force A Was Get Spotted By Japan's Reconnaissance Plane and they were in Range of Japanese Strike Plane attack base from Carrier?
Like Will Force A Lead Ship i mean like HMS Warspite and Illustrious Class Carrier that Participate on Indian Ocean will be sunk? And it was sunk what the dominos effect for Kriegsmarine Campaign On Atlantic Sea? Thanks I Just Wondered Cause i'm curious
Britannia really didn't rule the seas after WWI 😬
Erm.... I think you'll find that to use a contemporary phrase the German Kriegsmarine in WW2 "fucked about and found out" from the Royal Navy.
The Scharnhorst and Gneisenau were not Schlachtschiffe or battleships, but Schlachtkreuzer or battlecruisers.
luckily for the RN they were never fitted with 15 " guns like their design allowed
The map at sec 58 is wrong. Parts of italy are now port of the greater germany and other parts are missing instead. Thats definetly wrong and needed fixing.
The Brits got their revenge !
Really ? I thought France conducted a very proffesional. Surrender what,s to critisize ?
Germany was great at sea, unfortunately their air force received more attention, maybe if they put more into sea combined with the ability for ships to launch missiles it could of turned the tide for them?
Not that great. Although Germany won the battle for Norway their surface destroyer fleet suffered grievously at Narvik, to the extent it would have been mightily difficult for them to escort invasion barges had Sealion gone ahead. Many of their other surface raiders were disposed of one by one so that by the time Scharnhorst was sunk in late 1943 Hitler was pretty much done with them. The U boat campaign was a different matter of course.
Lol what, launching missiles form ships in the 1940s? What are you on about?
Also, no matter what germany could have build (and they were pretty much at the limit of what their shipbuilding industry could handle with the stuff they did have) the British Royal Navy would have outbuild them, just like in the years leading up to WW1. For their 1939-1940 building programs the British had 6 battleships planned to the german 2 for example (Lion class and H-39 class respectively).
You know, France gets a lot of criticism for its mistakes in this war, but the British conduct of the war early on may have been even worse. They routinely blundered away sizable advantages in numbers and equipment, while overpromising and under delivering aid to their allies, thus setting them up for defeat.
The British use of aircraft carriers in the early war was absolutely deplorable. Small strikes via aircraft with abhorrently small escorts. Neither mistake was ever made by the US during the war.
@@patrickhamilton9242 I wouldn't limit it to carriers either. The Royal Navy's performance from 1939 to about 1941 was substandard to put it mildly. Especially Norway should have never fallen to a Germany whose naval assets were extremly limited.
I mean… the defeat at Singapore is probably the most embarrassing of the whole war - however the British did embarrass the Italians in NA
You would think that ships would sail in task forces back when combined arms in naval warfare mattered. Well, Germans were never that great with whole naval business to begin with. They sent two battleships without adequate scouts or screens resulting in a torpedo hits which took out BB for remainder of the war.
Just bunch of raiders. They fought like raiders and died like ones too. Such a waste of resources and effort. German naval build up didn't mattered more than capturing Norway. All the rest was just submarine nuisance.
i was a big fan of DeNiro, i even owned one of the biggest & best nightclubs in the UK & i called it "DeNiro's" at the time i did not know how stupid Robert DeNiro was / is. how can you be that stupid robert ...
The Germans didn't understand that you don't give doomed names, names associated with ignominy. That's why there's never been English kings named Stephen, Richard, John or James since their last namesakes. Scharnhorst and Gneisenau were doomed from WW1.
Great video, but....How on Earth could battleships sneak up on an aircraft carrier? This is criminal ineptitude, and this D'Oyly-Hughes character seems to be just another upper-class twit incapable of any sort of command. The whole point of an aircraft carrier is to project air power on to the sea, and continuous patrols are a must. Even if their additional planes with non-folding wings slowed flight ops somewhat, there's no excuse for not sending those planes out on patrols ahead of the carrier group. In Pacific battles, the opposing fleets typically spotted one another at ranges in excess of 200 miles, not 26 miles.
Also, while I'm (justifiably) ridiculing the Royal Navy, why no submarines? A few Royal Navy subs could have easily bottled up the entire German navy for the whole war. Just incredible, infuriating stupidity on the part of what most people at the time considered the greatest fighting force on Earth. No wonder why the records are sealed---plenty of heads should have rolled for this one, but they managed to cover it up pretty well.
'Upper class twit?' D'Oyly-Hughes was born in Salt Lake City, Utah. His father was an English doctor. Whatever his real, or perceived, flaws, upper-class twittism was not one.
Actually, he was one of few senior officers who had learned to fly, had been executive officer of HMS Courageous in 1931, and had spent some time on secondment to the Air Ministry.
Air operations were not hampered, as Glorious' wider lifts made it possible to take the Hurricanes down into her hangar. However, as a ferry carrier, she had left most of her Air Group ashore, and only had around ten Sea Gladiators & Swordfish aboard. Moreover, carriers had previously passed through the same area of sea on several occasions steaming to & from Norway, without flying patrols and entirely unchallenged. Events two years later in the Pacific are not relevant, as carrier operations had evolved significantly during that time.
The German surface fleet was 'bottled up' by submarines and other means very successfully after May, 1941. For Operation Juno, Scharnhorst & Gneisenau sailed from Kiel on 4 June. I do not see how submarines, or anything else, could have bottled anything up in Kiel in June 1940.
An entire japanese surface fleet of dozens of ships including Yamato managed to ambush a US carrier fleet in late 1944 and get into gun range and sink a bunch of ships as well.
Shit happens in war. A large part of it is intelligence. If your intelligence says there are no enemy surface units at sea you generally believe them, but sometimes they can be wrong, which has happened to everyone at one time or another.
@@xxnightdriverxx9576 There is also, whether people accept it or not, the unavoidable element of luck. To take examples from both ends of the war, Graf Spee stumbling into a cruiser squadron, and the case of USS Indianopolis.
@@dovetonsturdee7033 I stand corrected---let's call him an upper-middle-class twit! The video said air operations may have been hampered, but if you're right, then there's even less excuse for not patrolling ahead of the task force. The fact that someone else got away with it a time or two beforehand betrays a very dangerous mindset that got a lot of people killed. Those Swordfish would have made excellent patrol craft, and I seem to remember something about some success with German battleships at some point...
@@xxnightdriverxx9576 I believe you're referring to the Battle off Samar, where the US Fleet took off in pursuit of what they thought was the main Japanese fleet, but was (again) bad intel. If it wasn't for bad intel, the military would have no intel at all---this is, indeed, a recurring theme.
However, the task force left behind to guard the landing beaches at Leyte wasn't ambushed, they were ordered to stay and defend the landings at all costs. They saw the Japanese fleet coming from quite a way, but reinforcements were just too far away; they tried to keep the light carriers out of gun range, but the Japanese had so many ships, they were able to divide and go after multiple targets at once. While we did lose the Gambier Bay, the only US carrier lost to naval gunfire in the whole war, and also lost the St. Lo to kamikaze attack, the tiny US fleet accomplished the mission, drove off the massive Japanese fleet, and sank more enemy ships (tonnage-wise) than they lost. Someone should make a UA-cam video about that one---ripping good yarn!
Why are you wasting your time making these naval battle videos? Why don’t you make more interesting series like the German unification or Frederick the great? You are releasing an unnecessary amount of naval videos. I really love your channel and enjoy your videos, but please give us something different than these videos you’ve been releasing recently.
I've already covered all of Frederick the Great's battles and I've covered 2 of the 3 Wars of German Unification.