[LONG DEPRESSING TANGENT AHEAD!!] The Hollow Forest fucking shot me in the chest, emotionally. For context, I have depression that was at its worst about 6 years ago, and everything about the Hollow Forest reminded me of the crushing feelings of hopelessness I felt back in my darkest days. As you already know, the instant you enter, you’re stripped of every single consumable item, weapon, and piece of equipment you’ve gained throughout the game, forcing you to go in feeling nearly helpless. What’s more, the SP-halving turns every fight into an absolute slog and makes you want to outright AVOID fighting, one of the things that you’d normally JUMP at the chance to do! Hell, the dungeon even makes you silently dread something as innocuous as opening a simple door because there’s a good chance that you’ll get ambushed and have your precious SP ripped in half even if you win/escape the fight! Speaking as someone who suffers from depression, minus the monsters, the Hollow Forest is a really solid representation of what it feels like to live with that particular mental illness. Some days, it’s hard to do even the simplest of things. It’s...hard to find enjoyment in anything in life a lot of the time because every single fucking thing takes a mammoth effort to even *want* to do! And the folks at Atlus made me (& probably many others) feel ALL of this without having to resort to cheap tactics (like an exposition dump) and coming off as insincere. And that’s worthy of praise in my book.
I never thought of it that way, but looking back on it you are totally right. I also have depression, but I guess mine wasnt triggered at this. Maybe because I was too focussed on the game to notice? Im glad you pointed this out though. Makes me appreciate this dungeon more than I already did
True to be told, both third semester dungeons are really boring both in gameplay and story. Hollow Forest is tedious and does feel relevant compared with the magatsu inaba and yomotsu hirasaka. Aaaaand Maruki's dungeon its quite the same except that it doesnt have a pointless gimmick and have a more interesting story at least, but that dont change the fact that the dungeon feels totally out of place when you compare the fight with Yaldabaoth and the Maruki boss fight.
@@Dragonix135 marukis is fun imo but both dungeons suffer because at this point in both games you are already op as all hell which makes them more boring
@@edjh9622 Late to the party i know They both suffer IF you know how to play persona/use a guide. If you go in fully blind as a newbie, Hollow Forest is legitimately amazing. You don't have busted ass personas, you probably don't have all social links maxed, hell, you might be underleveled and be using a suboptimal party because you didn't go bike riding with the right people to give them busted ass moves. I legit loved marie's dungeon. The fukkin fear of getting into fights due to the Sp drain, slowly but surely accruing items from chests to be able to actually use abilities in a fight, the slowly dwindling funds i was using to get sp back from the fox. Yeah in hindsight i didn't need any of it, and from the point of view of a veteran i could probably go back there and just clean house while yawning all the way, but for a begginer? Peak. Absolute peak.
I remember feeling so accomplished when I realized the items the dungeon made you pick up were essential to the fight. A boss that repels everything!? Though I've been picking up resistance nullifying items...hmm. Its that change in approach you talked about that made it such a fun twist in gameplay.
Nice vid. I definitely understand that cutting sp in half after each encounter causes the player to play different, but I think it was a very limiting change because the combat system revolves around finding enemy weaknesses imo. I think it could have been better to just remove items and possibly make the sp decrease around 30ish per fight and then your sp gets fully or partially refilled after beating a boss, encouraging you to continue forward rather than going back to the fox.
I'm gonna be honest with you bro I put victory cry on everything by this point in the game I kinda forgot sp was a thing so I just went in cards blazing
The gimmick is cool thematically, but gameplay-wise the sp thing gets old real fast and its overall just time consuming. You can spend 3 turns guarding every fight and restore sp that way or spam physical attacks.. so yea. Theme good gameplay bad.
At the end when you said “thankfully atlus learned from this with Kasumi” i was like “wow. I feel the exact opposite. Marie felt way less tacked on to me because she wasn’t just shoved into pre existing scenes unnaturally like Sumire was in P5R. All of the interaction you have with her is done in social links which imo is a much better way to go about adding a new character since they don’t have to find random times in the story to fit her in and she was still able to get a good amount of development through that method.
I think the same way! Kasumi was honestly the worst part of Royal, thanks to how she just seems to hog screen time for her as if she was trying to remind me that I'm playing a new version of Persona 5. In fact, now that you mentioned it, *Maruki was done the same way as Marie and it's amazing.* Most of your interactions with him are throughout Social Link Events, and the game does a good job on reminding you that he exists by making every party member visit him at some point (also sometimes appears during class iirc?). Also, the way Atlus advertised Kasumi as a new party member only for her to be playable at the very end of the game was stupid as hell, her plot twist was fine, but I honestly couldn't care less for her.
Personally I think a better handicap for Marie's dungeon instead of halfing sp i think it would be more creative to increase your skills sp by 1 after you use them at the end of the battle. It would catch people off guard but not at first. An example would be yukiko's burning petals starting at 34 then later after a few fights the player would suddenly realize that burning petals is now 47 sp. Careful players would realize this sooner making changing your party a reliable strategy.
i'm a total noob , and p4g is my first persona game , and for some reason i always assumed that enemies who have resistance are either strong or can nullify that element , and i didn't include dr and rpl , after few minutes of total confusion , i had the idea of changing the tacticts , so yeah kanji saved my ass by using nul elec
So I just went through this dungeon, I'm glad 8 out of 12 personas in my Narukami have Victory Cry lol and they're all already level 80+, so it's pretty safe that Narukami would have 100SP-ish for every floor. I grinded just for the items.
For some reason before i was in the hollow forest i had alot of money but in the dungeon i lt made me have 0 and i dont get yen from battle l. So i cant use the fox
5:50 Excuse me? But at least every interaction with Marie in-between the Prologue and the aftermath of catching the killer is merely optional, while Kasumi is filled with so many unskipable filler interactions that lead to nowhere, and doesn't do anything relevant until Yaldabaoth's defeat, making Kasumi not only feel less natural than Marie, but also more intrusive.
Huh I felt the same, however Yoshizawa has a better treatment character wise and more relevancy for extra skills you can receive from her plus her social link can be furthered too with Maruki's social link (or confidant). No matter how optional Marie is, Yoshizawa has something to make you feel like "yeah imma know her more" compared to Marie's. But that's just my opinion.
@@fallentrash1673but even ignoring social links, Sumire was inserted into so many scenes throughout the game that felt really forced and out of place. Marie felt like you could do her whole story at your own pace and it didn’t feel like she was being shoved down your throat at all.
Because of this mechanic, i choose not to continue playing P4G. I hated the No SP thing, and i use physical attacks most of the time. Yet it's still so difficult. I already know the original ending, i'll just watch someone else's playthrough.
Dude! Finally someone agrees with me about this! I though this dungeon, gameplay wise was the best. (Nothing beats heaven tho). Nice vid, you earned a new subscriber today
Two questions: What level is recommended? I'm at level 91. Can you leave this optional dungeon even if you already maxed out Aeon? Or do you have to complete it?
@@RetroAndChill So you can't back out of the hollow forest quest at all? I'm guessing maxing out Marie's social link means you must go through with it. I should mention I'm playing on normal.
Jokes on you, I still spammed the funny hassou tobi man the entire dungeon.
Your username got a laugh out of me. Well done.
@@TheActualMrLink nah, his username is terrifying, giving me flashbacks from the lucifer fight in devil survivor
A man of culture
[LONG DEPRESSING TANGENT AHEAD!!]
The Hollow Forest fucking shot me in the chest, emotionally. For context, I have depression that was at its worst about 6 years ago, and everything about the Hollow Forest reminded me of the crushing feelings of hopelessness I felt back in my darkest days. As you already know, the instant you enter, you’re stripped of every single consumable item, weapon, and piece of equipment you’ve gained throughout the game, forcing you to go in feeling nearly helpless. What’s more, the SP-halving turns every fight into an absolute slog and makes you want to outright AVOID fighting, one of the things that you’d normally JUMP at the chance to do! Hell, the dungeon even makes you silently dread something as innocuous as opening a simple door because there’s a good chance that you’ll get ambushed and have your precious SP ripped in half even if you win/escape the fight!
Speaking as someone who suffers from depression, minus the monsters, the Hollow Forest is a really solid representation of what it feels like to live with that particular mental illness. Some days, it’s hard to do even the simplest of things. It’s...hard to find enjoyment in anything in life a lot of the time because every single fucking thing takes a mammoth effort to even *want* to do!
And the folks at Atlus made me (& probably many others) feel ALL of this without having to resort to cheap tactics (like an exposition dump) and coming off as insincere. And that’s worthy of praise in my book.
I never thought of it that way, but looking back on it you are totally right. I also have depression, but I guess mine wasnt triggered at this. Maybe because I was too focussed on the game to notice? Im glad you pointed this out though. Makes me appreciate this dungeon more than I already did
So, what really makes you play differently is the friends we made along the way
*--laughs in megidolaon and victory cry-*-
True to be told, both third semester dungeons are really boring both in gameplay and story. Hollow Forest is tedious and does feel relevant compared with the magatsu inaba and yomotsu hirasaka. Aaaaand Maruki's dungeon its quite the same except that it doesnt have a pointless gimmick and have a more interesting story at least, but that dont change the fact that the dungeon feels totally out of place when you compare the fight with Yaldabaoth and the Maruki boss fight.
@@Dragonix135 marukis is fun imo but both dungeons suffer because at this point in both games you are already op as all hell which makes them more boring
@@edjh9622 Late to the party i know
They both suffer IF you know how to play persona/use a guide.
If you go in fully blind as a newbie, Hollow Forest is legitimately amazing. You don't have busted ass personas, you probably don't have all social links maxed, hell, you might be underleveled and be using a suboptimal party because you didn't go bike riding with the right people to give them busted ass moves. I legit loved marie's dungeon. The fukkin fear of getting into fights due to the Sp drain, slowly but surely accruing items from chests to be able to actually use abilities in a fight, the slowly dwindling funds i was using to get sp back from the fox.
Yeah in hindsight i didn't need any of it, and from the point of view of a veteran i could probably go back there and just clean house while yawning all the way, but for a begginer?
Peak. Absolute peak.
I remember feeling so accomplished when I realized the items the dungeon made you pick up were essential to the fight. A boss that repels everything!? Though I've been picking up resistance nullifying items...hmm.
Its that change in approach you talked about that made it such a fun twist in gameplay.
Nice vid. I definitely understand that cutting sp in half after each encounter causes the player to play different, but I think it was a very limiting change because the combat system revolves around finding enemy weaknesses imo. I think it could have been better to just remove items and possibly make the sp decrease around 30ish per fight and then your sp gets fully or partially refilled after beating a boss, encouraging you to continue forward rather than going back to the fox.
I'm gonna be honest with you bro I put victory cry on everything by this point in the game I kinda forgot sp was a thing so I just went in cards blazing
lol i was doing the same thing
The gimmick is cool thematically, but gameplay-wise the sp thing gets old real fast and its overall just time consuming. You can spend 3 turns guarding every fight and restore sp that way or spam physical attacks.. so yea. Theme good gameplay bad.
I avoided fights like the plague, when I did it.
At the end when you said “thankfully atlus learned from this with Kasumi” i was like “wow. I feel the exact opposite. Marie felt way less tacked on to me because she wasn’t just shoved into pre existing scenes unnaturally like Sumire was in P5R. All of the interaction you have with her is done in social links which imo is a much better way to go about adding a new character since they don’t have to find random times in the story to fit her in and she was still able to get a good amount of development through that method.
I think the same way! Kasumi was honestly the worst part of Royal, thanks to how she just seems to hog screen time for her as if she was trying to remind me that I'm playing a new version of Persona 5.
In fact, now that you mentioned it, *Maruki was done the same way as Marie and it's amazing.* Most of your interactions with him are throughout Social Link Events, and the game does a good job on reminding you that he exists by making every party member visit him at some point (also sometimes appears during class iirc?).
Also, the way Atlus advertised Kasumi as a new party member only for her to be playable at the very end of the game was stupid as hell, her plot twist was fine, but I honestly couldn't care less for her.
Jokes on you VICTORY CRY and SPAMMING MEGIDOLAON
Personally I think a better handicap for Marie's dungeon instead of halfing sp i think it would be more creative to increase your skills sp by 1 after you use them at the end of the battle. It would catch people off guard but not at first. An example would be yukiko's burning petals starting at 34 then later after a few fights the player would suddenly realize that burning petals is now 47 sp. Careful players would realize this sooner making changing your party a reliable strategy.
Oh and also this was the first video I saw from you and I really liked it, amazing production and editing quality, I'll definitely stick around.
i'm a total noob , and p4g is my first persona game , and for some reason i always assumed that enemies who have resistance are either strong or can nullify that element , and i didn't include dr and rpl , after few minutes of total confusion , i had the idea of changing the tacticts , so yeah kanji saved my ass by using nul elec
So I just went through this dungeon, I'm glad 8 out of 12 personas in my Narukami have Victory Cry lol and they're all already level 80+, so it's pretty safe that Narukami would have 100SP-ish for every floor. I grinded just for the items.
or you just spam guard and the basic attack to defeat enemies as slowly as possible lmao
Nice video man,deserves more love.
Also I forgot the name of that song in the beginning,can you tell me :)
Just found your channel man and it's honestly some really good stuff hope you keep making these, looking forward to more
Amazing video
For some reason before i was in the hollow forest i had alot of money but in the dungeon i lt made me have 0 and i dont get yen from battle l. So i cant use the fox
i spammed kamui miracle and close my eyes
Hollow forrest was why I wanted a broken Yoshitsune, so in a way, thanks marie for making suffer through hell
I spent 2 hours on this dungeon just for my game to crash right before the boss
5:50 Excuse me? But at least every interaction with Marie in-between the Prologue and the aftermath of catching the killer is merely optional, while Kasumi is filled with so many unskipable filler interactions that lead to nowhere, and doesn't do anything relevant until Yaldabaoth's defeat, making Kasumi not only feel less natural than Marie, but also more intrusive.
Might wanna give a p5 spoiler warning at the start
Huh I felt the same, however Yoshizawa has a better treatment character wise and more relevancy for extra skills you can receive from her plus her social link can be furthered too with Maruki's social link (or confidant). No matter how optional Marie is, Yoshizawa has something to make you feel like "yeah imma know her more" compared to Marie's. But that's just my opinion.
@@fallentrash1673but even ignoring social links, Sumire was inserted into so many scenes throughout the game that felt really forced and out of place. Marie felt like you could do her whole story at your own pace and it didn’t feel like she was being shoved down your throat at all.
I get its a different way to play the game but rising up the difficulty by making the game severely unjust it's not the move.
Because of this mechanic, i choose not to continue playing P4G. I hated the No SP thing, and i use physical attacks most of the time. Yet it's still so difficult. I already know the original ending, i'll just watch someone else's playthrough.
Dude! Finally someone agrees with me about this! I though this dungeon, gameplay wise was the best. (Nothing beats heaven tho). Nice vid, you earned a new subscriber today
Two questions: What level is recommended? I'm at level 91. Can you leave this optional dungeon even if you already maxed out Aeon? Or do you have to complete it?
Level wise you should be more than fine. You can "leave" the dungeon to go to the other TV dungeons, but you have to complete it that day.
@@RetroAndChill So you can't back out of the hollow forest quest at all? I'm guessing maxing out Marie's social link means you must go through with it. I should mention I'm playing on normal.
victory cry lmao
Maries boss looks like a bootleg corrin ngl
Most people hate it and for a good reason