Exploring The Benefits Of Long Kayaks
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- Опубліковано 8 гру 2021
- Stellar S18EXP:
Length: 17' 11" / 5.48m
Beam: 20.2" / 51.2cm
Depth: 13.3" / 33.7cm
Capacity: 285 lbs / 130kg
Advantage (Fiberglass) -35.9lbs $3895
Multisport (Carbon-Aramid) -35.3lbs $4895
www.stellarkayaksusa.com/S18S...
Current Designs Nomad:
Overall Length: 18' 10" (574.04cm)
Width: 21.25" (53.975cm)
Depth: 13.75" (34.925cm)
Maximum Load: 425 lbs.
Fiberglass - 54 lbs. / MSRP $3,899
Aramid - 50 lbs. / MSRP $4,299
cdkayak.com/Kayaks.aspx?id=32
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I've been watching your videos. A friend selling a 16ft kayak with a rudder. The yaw is wasted energy in a short hull boat. I intend to use it on open waters.. All the details you thoroughly go over about kayaks will be a huge help when I survey the seaworthiness, fitment and comfort of the craft. I water skied for 40yrs. Owning and repowering my boats was easy for me. Owning and operating a kayak is a totally new experience. Your review about big box store kayaks was excellent! Thank you for producing great content. Any beginner should watch your videos before they purchase the wrong boat for their application.
My old 17’ CD Storm won’t keep up with those boats. Oh and if you ignore the leaves long enough they eventually blow to the neighbors yard and you won’t have to rake 🤣
I plan on building an 24 foot kayak equipped with lights, mp3, vhf marine radio to take in rivers and ocean.
Those geese at 18:10 were just chilling, despite the boats coming at them. Like "Hey there, how's the paddling? Yeah, we'll be on our way south soon enough!" cool geese
Nice to see y'all just having a blast on the water!
Would love to see a vid on recommended clothing & gear for fall/winter/cold-weather kayaking!
As usual, thanks for taking us along on your adventures. Quite literally for me this day! Looking forward to paddling that surf ski in waves next time!
I love the sit on top! Used to have an RPM disco at one time, loved it. Now I have a Tetra 12 since it's just leisure kayaking. Great video my friend.
I just got back into kayaking and picked up a used Current Designs Solstice GT that's just over 17' long. I believe it's the older version. I always wanted a long boat for cruising speed. In the past I always used 12 footers that were ok for fun floats and a few miles in the evenings, but I would just end up plowing through the water at my weight. The tight cockpit entry has been the biggest challenge for me. I'm stretching and trying back rest and foot rest positions to minimize numb feet. I did shave some shin off on the fiberglass cockpit getting out the first time. Ouch. Thanks for all the great videos. Time for me to stretch some more. :D
It's cool to see your different paddling styles in each other's boats.
Fantastic HONEST review. I have been trying to explain the difference in design and application of sea kayak vs. surf ski to my brother Larry in Florida and the Pros & Cons of each design. You guys have nailed it. Your honesty, humility and appreciation of both styles and paddling in general shines through.
Right on, I’m so glad you enjoyed it. We’re paddling lovers through and through. Doesn’t matter what your paddling.
Great video! Watching from Seattle
Love your content. You have me sold on the feelfree lure 11.5 v2. Looking forward to purchasing it when I can afford it
Watching you guys from Tampa, FL and seeing you all geared up for the cooler weather. Still wearing shorts and t-shirts on last week's paddle down here.
Haha yes Central Oregon gets so cold!
Love this video, so helpful and fun to watch. I'm considering S18S X, the one without hatches.
That’s what I use now. I love it! Stable enough to have it in rough conditions and boat wakes, but still plenty fast for my needs.
I'm going to have to not watch your channel all winter! I haven't even gotten bored with ice fishing yet and I can't start getting excited about paddling this early! But maybe I do need to watch them, because I know I've gained weight, which might put me over my boat's limit, and I should get inspired by these videos to get ready for summer!
Do more 20+ minute videos, they are great for jumping on the elliptical while watching!
Nice boats. The Audax, an Australian expedition boat is 18.3 feet long, 21 inches wide but has the plumb bow commonly seen here in the huge surf ski scene. Helps get a longer waterline in a shorter boat.
Love mine!!
Audax also has a solid bar as the basis for the foot pedals so you can have feet together for the higher speed ski leg position.
Current designs is my dream love watching all ur vids
As a 72 YO in Hackberry La, I just stepped up from a Viking GT 12 footer to a Viking Profish Reload 15 footer. I wanted a performance yak and I got it. Length is speed. She glides forever.
Enjoyed you vid from way down south.
Nice - very different, but very fast boats! I've paddled the Seaward Quest, which is nearly a carbon copy of the Nomad (or... the other way around - don't know which came first), and it's certainly a fast boat. Only issue I've noticed to be aware of with those long, narrow boats (sit-in ones, that is) is the tapered deck height sometimes doesn't allow much room for big feet. I have size 13s and sometimes trying to cram those things in there is tricky! To anyone considering a really long sea kayak, I would definitely say TRY it first, if you can. I originally had my heart set on the Quest, but after trying it, I realized it didn't quite fit me comfortably.
I just acquired a necky Arluk 3 18 feet fiberglass for a 100 bucks in great shape., the hull looks similar. Paddle 8 miles and it flys with a bit of weight with gear.
The Nomad was my first kayak. Also called the Extreme by Current Designs.
Great review answers many questions i had...
Great!
This makes me want to try a surf ski now! I see them pretty regularly here in Folsom on Lake Natoma.
Hit me up if you want to demo this one. I’ll have it available in Lodi to try.
i just got a gibbon grx slsa spec ski to get into paddling with i love it surf ski is so fun i had ever only paddled a canoe a few times
You guys are lucky, great lifestyle. I had an opportunity to paddle in the San Juans several years ago. Amazing place. Makes me want to move up there. This spring I'll be hitting northern Florida. See what happens. Peace.
Great video and great information ' and beautiful
This was a great comparison.
Do you have an episode when you talk about clothing for the cooler weather? I was intrigue by the gear today and as I am up in Canada. PS thanks to your recreational review under $1000 I bought the Pungo 120 last year. Great for getting away from folks during covid and into the water ! no ragrets ;)
Thats fantastic. I was wearing all wool baselayers. They breath and keep me warm when wet. I wear Kokatat Whirlpool Bibs, however Tempest Pants also work well. I always get something with waterproof booties attaches so my feet don't get cold. Then neo boots, warm hat and usually a dry top, however because we were keeping it shallow and close to shore, I opted to just wear my wool top so I could breath better while working out. Hope this help! I also have a nice video on cold-weather clothing from last year.
I demoed this Stellar with a friend at Alder Creek, Portland. I loved how fast it felt, but was looking for a coastal expedition boat and concluded that the small front hatch would be a pain. My friend bought it. We did a Gorge down-winder with it and a friend's Epic V8 and my 21 ft X 19 in ski. The Stellar and Epic seemed very comparable with the Stellar feeling a tiny bit livelier, but more prone to swamp, which killed all speed and took a little time to empty. He fell behind and was totally gassed. A wave deflector would largely solve this and are widely available. The main mission of these surfskis are to surf wind waves and both of these, though thought of as beginner skis, work really well.
I ended up importing a Mirage 583 SOT from Australia. This has a surfski deck on a very fast ocean racing sea kayak hull and with the innegra lay-up weighs in at 40 lb., light for a 19 ft. boat. The summer before COVID I soloed 350 miles of open coast paddling in the far north of British Columbia. Since retiring in 2011, I have paddled three different fast SOT's from norther BC to Mexico in segments usually around 200 miles. I've never run into another serious ocean paddler paddling this type of boat, which is a mystery to me given how great they are. I am always able to pull ahead of my boating companions of comparable age on these paddles and I know that if we end up out of our kayaks, I would have no problem getting back in with no instability or pumping needed. Spending long days with no pad would be uncomfortable, for sure. Pads with circular cut-outs to accommodate one's sit bones works well. I know of no boats like this sold in the US, other than this stellar with its down side of a small front hatch, which using many small bags would work. Small bags are the way to go anyway.
I bough a used V8 that weighs 26 lbs., well worth the extra cost to not only dramatically improve acceleration, but reducing the risk of injury primarily getting it on or off the vehicle and to the water. This is my main fitness boat, though it only comes with the under hull rudder. I have already repaired the rudder, glassing the damaged part, straightening the shaft, and once repairing the tiny hole in the hull that resulted from the sharp trailing edge of the rudder piercing it. These were easy repairs, though now I'm thinking of rigging a rear rudder for the Willamette River here in Corvallis. The main reason for the under hull rudder is that the kick-up rudders stick up out of the water when on the critical part of a wave right when you need it most.
Also, surfskis rock in ocean surf! They catch waves easily and are much less likely to get turned sideways on the wave. The single foot strap works really well to keep the boat and paddler together after falling in. I normally have no trouble in surf pointing the ski into the wave, holding it as needed, then remounting. If the surf is big, it works better to hold it up-side-down at the bow. It works well to rig the rear bungees hold the paddle in an outrigger fashion, which frees both hands and lends added support. This works well any time one capsizes.
Agree with most of your observations. I have a V8 in Buffalo NY, and a V6 for the ocean and intercoastal down in West Palm. Also a Stellar 16s kayak in Buffalo which surfs like a ski, goes fast, but gives you enclosure. I did also find the Stellar a bit less stable than my epics. Not big outings like yours though, I go out for hard paddles for a few hours..
I have 3 Extremes now called the Nomad they are great hulls. Fast comfortable, great in rough water. I also have an Current Designs Expedition similar but rounded bottom slightly faster.
Hello PaddleDogC5 , I’ve recently took an interest in kayaking , I saw a guy years ago w/ a really long , look like wood , kayak & I was amazed at how fast it would go , I’d like to have a fast one , I’ll definitely get a used one if I can find what I want , I’m completely new at this so what would you recommend for my first one ? I’m 64 years old , 5’ 10” , 160 lbs , Thankyou Mike
@@fergusonto-2032 Solstice GT or possibly a GTS which is a bit thinner. Should be able to find nice one for 800-1000 USD. Send me pictures before you buy I can tell a lot and know what to look for.
@@PaddleDogC5 ok thanks a bunch
It's wonderful to see you guys exposing the crossover benefits of skis & sea kayaks for flatwater.
The rotomolded skis from Nelo and Epic can be fast, affordable options for areas that are "iffy" for composite boats.
I wouldn't run a composite ski in my local water, but I just picked up an Epic V5 & Epic V7 with overstern rudders and couldn't be happier!
I won't be setting any records, but ya gotta EARN the spot in front of me...
Thanks for what you do!
The surf ski is a different beast. I got side washed by a wave and fell in. Now, my V5 is in the pool until I master the remount. This is a safety issue. With these long boats, you have master the remount on the ski, and c2c rolls on the sea kayak.
I'm now using my Sitka LT. It's the exact same dimensions as the V5. V5 is definitely faster, but the kayak lets you hangout on the water. And I don't have to wear neoprene in the kayak.
@@DrTommyDDS
Roger that!
Confidence in your remount (or roll) is essential, and should be practiced until the point of competency before venturing forth...
Our plastic skis are unlikely to see the ocean anytime soon, if ever...
I'm dipping my toe into long distance river racing, and train on lakes and rivers. The V7 is a very similar remount to my old Seda Revenge, so I'm good to go.
Hope to see you at the California River Quest!
Great video & just what I’m looking for , I’ve recently took an interest in kayaking, & I’d like to have the fastest thing I can get , I’ll most likely get a used one if I can find something I like , Thankyou for sharing
Be wary about just getting a really fast boat as you will generally be sacrificing stability. You won’t be travelling fast when upside down or in the water, and you will use energy to stabilise yourself.
All kayak design involves trade offs.
@@deaninchina01 thanks for the advice , what type / style would you recommend , I know very little about kayaks or kayaking .
very relevant conversation for me. I own a Stellar 16s, an epic V8, and down in Fla an Epic V6 Your observations pretty much in sync with my experiences on Epics and Stellar's. My V8 is more stable I think than the S18S (an inch wider). I don't tour and the rivers and bigger waters here don't require much maneuverability so the Stellar and the V8 are great out on the Niagara, Lake Erie, other waterways in Buffalo NY. The Stellar 16s is very vast, feels almost as fast as my V8, and a little more agile of course. The 16S has good primary but maybe less secondary stability. The foot pedals on the Stellar are not as easy to use as my V6 (both are over stern rudders) and of course my under stern V8 is effortless. I paddle for a workout, love my wing, and always looking for wakes and waves to ride.
Sounds like you’re having lots of fun!
I got my Delta 12.10 from Portland kayak company and use it for sub one week camping trips all the time.
That’s rad. That’s a great shop.
Yes!
Interesting to see both both side by side. My first surf ski was an s18s. I really love that boat and still use it for training because it's heavier and more stable than my race boats. One thing you said about the footboard drove my decision to get an epic 18x touring kayak. I agree with you that the footboard allows you to get a lot more Drive than having pedals on both sides of the boat. It might just be that I'm used to the single footboard so it's a problem for me transitioning into a sea kayak with a different system. Great comparison. I enjoy your videos. Per Canadian boats not coming into the United States. The last administration's tariffs destroyed the US market for companies like "think" and others. I've talked to several Canadian Distributors that would love to sell boats in the United States but it's no longer cost effective. The tariffs are just too high and they can't compete with the Chinese boats like the stellar.
Interesting perspective. I wonder how Stellar makes it profitable? I am getting more accustom to the footboard as well. I have one in my new S18R and I’m really stoked on it.
I must have missed something there. Delta and Swift are 2 Canadian companies that don’t have any problem selling boats in the US. Sure, their prices increased after the tariffs went up (we all knew it was the consumers that would ultimately be paying for that). But, is there something different on how the surfski type boats are classified? My Delta dealer in the US says they easily sell over 50 kayaks a year, just from their shop.
@@barry4fish19 they might make up for it in quantity. Surfski is a very specialized niche. Canadian companies selling them most likely don't do enough business in the United States to make it worthwhile with increased tariffs. I spoke directly to director of sales at think. He's the one who told me why they're not importing them.
Love the channel, any tutorials over Seward boats? Looking at a guide 17 myself
Not super familiar with their line. We don’t see them much here in California
@@HeadwatersKayak I can across them up in Alaska. I have a Luna and it's one of my more comfortable boats. Out in Ohio quality boats can be hard to come by.
I’d say yes! Longer is better. For touring kayaks.
They track better.
Sit on tops are tippy. Including surf ski.
Wide kayaks are not less tippy. If you have to lean to get the paddle in the water.
Surf skis are faster. With more effort.
My best workout is the one I look forward to.
So a 19’ touring Seda Glider is my choice. I had an Epic 18x sport for years. It is 1/2 mph faster top speed. But at 3-4 mph the Glider seems to take less effort. I don’t miss the Epic. But I did keep the Epic mid-wing paddle. And a Greenland style paddle.
I’ve paddled a lot. And that’s what suits me. For flatwater kayaking.
Great video, can you tell me a bit about what you’re clothing and footwear choices for paddling in that cold weather?
You know I had a whole segment of this video that I cut out where I broke down my clothing. Maybe I’ll do it as a short on Instagram
22° F clothing looks bad for the probably water temps.
I have a few days of experience in a Point 65 Mercury and it took me an hour to feel comfortable with the primary stability of this kayak and i could peddle just fine after that. My question, with my experience so far, is it smart for me to get a kayak like the Venture or even a Tempest 170 with less primary stability? i'm a pretty fast learner but i don't want to do a bad buy and feel stuck with a smaller width boat. Thanks!
Great videos on the water. I wonder how you recorded your videos. Thanks!
These are back in the IPhone days.
Canel yang saya sukai
Fun video! I noticed you were using a wing paddle. If you decide to do a review video of the surf ski, could you talk a bit about what that style of paddle brings to the table?
Always look forward to content from you (and Ethan).
For sure!
A wing paddle makes your forward stroke a little more efficient (most figures I have seen is about 3%) but makes some draws and your roll a bit more difficult.
My dream kayak the Rockpool Taran 16.
hey cool. i'm in bend. i'll look for you guys out there.
I'm just beginning.
Picked up an older Hurricane Skimmer 140 solo.
Is there a reason why they would only make that model as a tandem and discontinue the solo model?
Just wondering…. Why would you want a sit on kayak that long… what would be the benefit of having a sit on top versus a sit inside
Might you share your opinions of Swell Watercraft’s Scupper 14 and 16 SOTs? T’Would be appreciated. Paddle safely, my Friends!
I just bought a 5.7m rudder kayak!
my Viking Reload is 15 feet long... I can't imagine moving around a 19 foot kayak, also I wonder if it would fit in the garage.... fun video and cool kayaks.....
Easy to handle if you know how. Even easier than a short hull.
Just wondering….. why would you want a sit on top kayak that long…. What is the benefit of a sit on versus a sit inside
Easy to get on and off. No cockpit full of water if you capsize. Surf Ski's is what they are called, and they have been used around the world for ocean racing for a long time.
So the top speeds you saw were?
What kind of dry suit are you wearing in that skii? It looks way more comfortable than what I have!
I’m wearing Kolkata Gore-Tex bibs
@@HeadwatersKayak what good is a bib if you get submerged?
That Nomad looks like the LWL is a good foot less than the OAL. That's one of the things I like about my Epic 18X, the LWL is virtually the same as the overall length. Why have nearly 19 ft of weight with less than 18 ft going to hull speed? The wave piercing bow is also a big plus when going into the chop.
I do like that Stellar. The main thing that's kept me away from a surfski is an inability to carry enough gear for an Everglades Challenge or similar. Thos hatches would make it doable without throwing the CoG too high with bags strapped on the deck.
I tend to agree with you. The more I paddle Stellar kayaks the less I'm interested in a ton of overhang on my kayaks. I paddle both surf ski and sea kayaks and each have a place in my heart. I still prefer my sea kayak for my day to day paddling, but thats just my preference. I like to have a skirt, and thigh braces for support. Feels like something I can spend all day in vs a few hours. The surf ski feels like a workout machine. It's fast and the ergonomics are perfect for covering water efficiently as possible.
@@HeadwatersKayak Staying upright for an extended period of time with a ski in rougher stuff would be a challenge too.
@@HeadwatersKayak have a look at the Expedition Kayak Audax for a super fast long distance sea kayak with an Aussie flavour. Their design brief took a lot from surf skis, including doing away with the overhang bow.
Extreme & Nomad are exactly the same. Nomad is no longer made sadly. They are 18'10" x 21-1/4". Love the color of the Nomad.
I heard the shop in Lodi is still servicing native peddle drives. Is this correct?
That is correct. 209-224-8367
Know of anyone who has already-built wooden kayaks readily available?
I have a 14’ Pygmy that’s like new I’m selling for $800
What - no handstand in this boat???
Bit OTT for that river though?
Depends if you like going fast. If you want to get a quick I town workout it’s the tool for the job.
Depends on the person I guess lol
you referrenced "North American" style. In other places I've heard British style and Greenland style. Can you point us to a place that describes the various "styles" of sea kayaks?
You caused me to look around and I couldn’t find a good video on the subject! I guess I know what I’ll be filming soon!
@@HeadwatersKayak I was thinking a link to a chart or infographic, but a video would be cool.
Current Designs website describes NA kayak.
Think the Kyaks are as much as the truck is worth lol 😂
No, a 20 to 21" wide kayak is EXTREMELY tippy, especially when it's that long, stiff and light. Can't even get into one without flipping it, never mind turn your head, breathe let alone paddle the damn thing. Just see how unstable both of those boats are, the slightest movement of the paddler heels those boats over pretty dangerously just look at the video! I *NEVER* have my boats move over that much when I paddle, ever. There's something to width that resists going over, it's simple physics.
"There are no tippy boats just tippy paddlers" John Dye.
Agreed because a boat that is only 20-21" wide is so unstable that it's going to take a LOT of work on the part of the paddler to keep from flipping!
I feel really stable and not working hard at all to keep my 21.75 " wide sea kayak. You get use to it after a while. Also, the hull shape is another factor that will affect stability.
Length is speed.
First
Thanks for tuning in.
The pan in that boat looks like it'll collect water to keep you butt cool.
Helmet?
At 14:28 you even comment it's a tight fit.
So what happens you fall over? Near rocks, or near bottom?
Very good chance to hit head.
Maybe with an expert paddler they might decide no helmet.
But you're not a national level/expert: no offence.
And the people watching this are not either.
On flat water,sure, can do without.
But moving water, or any fast water in anything you do'nt IMMEDIATELY side off, you need a helmet.
Oh my god. There are thousands and thousands of people who float this section on tubes with no pfd’s every single day here in Bend. I should probably wear a helmet in the shower in case I slip in some soap. 🧼
Yah, but what about if an asteroid hits you? You should be wearing asteroid protection, man. Seriously. And by seriously I mean seriously! 😅 People…
I hate leaf blowers. Worst invention of allllll time.