@@Spudknocker I got chased down by a Grumble on the highway just last week. I put your 45 to 45 degree methodology to use and utilized obstructions to break contact behind an SUV with a family in it. Thanks Spudknocker!
Man, you make it look so easy haha. But this was definitely a very useful video. Now I realized my mistake, I'm always using the old-school way of turning into the missile even at longer distances. I'll try the 4/8 o'clock technique. Thanks!
I fly the Hornet and I came up with these concepts on my own several years ago. Precisely what you have just demonstrated. However, my targets are the actual SAM sites, themselves. I cannot just turn away at a long distance and try again. My technique is to fly NOE with masking and slightly offset as you explained as much as I can until I'm within 10 to 12 nmi from the site, pop up and toss a JDAM at it. Often, with an IADS system in place, there will be a layered defense in play which makes a run in on 4 targets max. And, of course, with today's accurate ELINT missions/systems, knowledge of exactly where these semi-mobile sites will give JDAMs lots to intell to get to within a couple feet. In addition to the "danger close" position of the attack, NOE in burner going in as well as leaving takes a lot of fuel.
Thank you for this video! I have to figure out why I don't get launch ques in my F18...I hear that I am getting locked but never know when the SAM launches.
Ok now I really want to come back home from work, open DCS, build a mission, and have a try. Oh, and probably die. But this is a different story. 😂 thanks a lot Spud.
Thanks Spud! One question, the 45° behind the beam technique has you flying away from the SAM site. If your mission is to destroy said site/a target nearby, what's stopping the SAM site from continuously launching on you, driving you further and further away? How do you get close?
You fly in a SEAD-package and you and your wingman play with the missiles while your second package engaged/overwhelmed the SAM site with stand-off weapons... Or you repeat evasion until the site needs to reload and needs to rely on their SHORAD/AAA.
Not an experienced DCS pilot but I know some other sims and history You don't. Unless there's a convenient valley or mountain range for you to fly through all the way to your target, some SEAD needs to be done
Hey Spud, absolutely great work. I'm actually interested extremely in the wild weasel thematic and this video seems to teach me from old school to new school. Thanks for the input and fly safe! Cheers Milan
Note: Sometimes the AI sam is a bit silly. It fires at maximum range which is very easy to evade. If the SAM let you to go closer, the real game begins.
If you have sky behind you, trying to fool the doppler clutter rejection won't work. You only become "invisible" when there's ground behind you and your returns get filtered out.
im not experienced with notching, but that's another technique. 45 degrees attacks the kinetic energy by a) forcing a change in intercept path b) afterburning away after it loses propulsion.
That's very interesting, and makes a lot of sense! Trying to run the missile out of energy instead of dodging it. The thing is, though, you still end up running away. How do you go about trying to actually Wild Weasel these things, other than simply flinging HARMs or standoff weapons at them? (which isn't an option for the Grumble). Do you maybe have to poke at the site from multiple angles with multiple aircraft at once, evading like this when any one of them is fired on, and coming back in again and again until someone gets close enough to land hits?
Hey spud. I've always wondered if head on is better or worse than an off set approach. Wouldn't a head on approach mean that the missile would launch at a longer range do to faster closure? Wouldn't beaming at missile launch and the added range make the missile easier to defeat? Could this maybe be a viable wild weasel strategy to deplete missiles?
I think that by starting at an offset the sam missile, starting from the site, already has to turn to intercept you, and turning consumes energy. While going head on doesn't require as much energy for the missile. So by having an offset and then doing the turn the overall energy of missile could be lower compared to what you were suggesting. Obviously i haven't tried it nor measured its energy, i am supposing the reason why it's done like that. Should be investigated though.
I am with here. To the energy of the missile it should not be much of a difference when the turn takes place, as long is it does take place. However, the earlier the missile is started, the more wiggle room you have, and the closer it is to its maximum range. So yes, I agree with you. Would be interesting to see what others think about it.
I have a question, when SAM fires at me, and I dont know the type of the SAM, should I perform evasive manouvers like you did for s300 just to be sure I dont get hit? Or should I perform manouvers showed earlier in the video ( hoping it wasnt indeed s300)
Hey friend! You can see example videos on my Channel of lessons. They typically last about 1-2ish hours depending and I will typically do a schedule of a lesson every couple weeks or so. I try to give you as much homework as possible and set you up for success with that homework
Thanks for the video. The earth has no effect on curvature at this distance. The only thing that happens with a Split S. That the rocket can't distinguish between air and ground. As long as you fly down, it tries to estimate your position where you could be and intercept you into the ground. This works with all SAM positions that are radar-guided. Also with A2A
@@Spudknocker there is a game on playtest called "Nuclear Option" I have a hard time evading missiles but I will apply tactics from this video there. Thank you for this vid btw 🔥
Meteor, the author of the Album explicitly grants the right to use it for DCS video production... no matter the module. And as the artist he knows best!😂
Sory to say but the assumption that constant course change will drain down missile energy is true in real life bit not in DCS. You can verify this by measuring missile speed and energy in straight and manoeuvre scenario by help of Tacview. DCS engine does not model drag coefficient change in a turn. Simple as that. It does model the coefficients based on air density though so draging a missile low is a good idea. But turning... Not much if a difference in range if you make prolonged turn after its engine burn off time or you mske a rapid vector change. Blame ED. Also you cannot notch the SAM radar as you are not on cluttered radar background. From perspective of a SAM radar you are on clear blue sky. Alsi you suggest to viewers the should crank imidiately to see a curve in missiles smoke. A curve in missile smoke does not change the situation dramatically if you are not going cold. This is due at this case missile is still gaining energy from it's burning engine. You di not mark the important aspect that any manoeuvres while missile is still burning is a waste of your energy only. Sure if this mske you going cold or low but otherwise will not make a difference.
Every single thing you said is wrong. Inertia is modeled, you can notch SAM radar IRL & in DCS, and it is NOT a waste of your energy to crank the missile while the rocket is burning. It has finite inertia, this is simple kinematics that is easy to understand.
Mannn i dont even know how to do flares so im here turning like crazy and 90% get away by going up then down. Sometimes they seem to get lost in the clouds. maybe its just luck
SA-2.... dispense a bit of chaff, manuever, you dodged it. SA-11, Dive, dispense chaff, go cold, you dodged it. SA-5, Dive, Dispense chaff, go cold, you dodged it. SA-5 short range, Dive, notch, dispense chaff, you dodged it. SA-10, Just turn, stay cold, you dodged it. BOOM, 40 minutes of content. Done. No need to explain further, not hard, just have your RWR on. Now explain how to dodge an sa13... Which is... stay high, dispense flares if noticed.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I am an accountant and these techniques have saved me in my daily life several times. Thank you Spudknocker!
Ya never know when you need to evade a SAM on the Daily commute!!
@@Spudknocker I got chased down by a Grumble on the highway just last week. I put your 45 to 45 degree methodology to use and utilized obstructions to break contact behind an SUV with a family in it. Thanks Spudknocker!
lol
I am a truck driver and this techniques has helped me avoid DOT. Thank you Spudknocker!
Hey guys! Always keep in mind the BEST way to Evade a SAM is to Avoid them entirely if possible! Haha!
Man, you make it look so easy haha. But this was definitely a very useful video. Now I realized my mistake, I'm always using the old-school way of turning into the missile even at longer distances. I'll try the 4/8 o'clock technique. Thanks!
Always glad to help Reflected!
I fly the Hornet and I came up with these concepts on my own several years ago. Precisely what you have just demonstrated. However, my targets are the actual SAM sites, themselves. I cannot just turn away at a long distance and try again. My technique is to fly NOE with masking and slightly offset as you explained as much as I can until I'm within 10 to 12 nmi from the site, pop up and toss a JDAM at it. Often, with an IADS system in place, there will be a layered defense in play which makes a run in on 4 targets max. And, of course, with today's accurate ELINT missions/systems, knowledge of exactly where these semi-mobile sites will give JDAMs lots to intell to get to within a couple feet. In addition to the "danger close" position of the attack, NOE in burner going in as well as leaving takes a lot of fuel.
I've been doing SEAD wrong this whole time lol thanks for the great video!!!!!!
Haha glad to help! But keep in mind this isn’t really SEAD it’s just how to evade a missile that’s been fired at you
This is EXACTLY what I needed
Excellent video, which covers evasions techniques i was not able to find anywhere else.
Thanks Spud!
Ngl, this is probably the best DCS video i've ever watched. It was fun to watch, It was educating and I decided to buy F 15 and Sinai terrain.
Maybe I missed it in the video, but would you say defending against the SA-3 is similar to the SA-2 and SA-6/11?
Exactly the same
Thank you for this video! I have to figure out why I don't get launch ques in my F18...I hear that I am getting locked but never know when the SAM launches.
Kind of been stuck on Operation Cerberus North mission 16 for a bit now so thanks a lot!
Awesome and detailed video! I love the breakdowns on the F10 map
Ok now I really want to come back home from work, open DCS, build a mission, and have a try. Oh, and probably die. But this is a different story. 😂 thanks a lot Spud.
As always great video man! Once again learned multiple things from it! 🙏🏻
Thanks Spud! One question, the 45° behind the beam technique has you flying away from the SAM site. If your mission is to destroy said site/a target nearby, what's stopping the SAM site from continuously launching on you, driving you further and further away? How do you get close?
Hey man well, the short answer is you don’t get closer, that’s what anti-radiation missiles and stand-off weapons like JSOW’s are for.
You fly in a SEAD-package and you and your wingman play with the missiles while your second package engaged/overwhelmed the SAM site with stand-off weapons... Or you repeat evasion until the site needs to reload and needs to rely on their SHORAD/AAA.
You can try coming in low below 100ft and pop up to loft some bombs its way before diving down again
Not an experienced DCS pilot but I know some other sims and history
You don't. Unless there's a convenient valley or mountain range for you to fly through all the way to your target, some SEAD needs to be done
Great super-informative video. Thanks for sharing ;)
Glad it was helpful!
Very good video most informative thanks keep up the great work.
Great video very informative!
Excellent video. I fly CAS and general ground strike a lot and SAMs are my nemesis more than hostile aircraft are.
Hey Spud, absolutely great work. I'm actually interested extremely in the wild weasel thematic and this video seems to teach me from old school to new school. Thanks for the input and fly safe! Cheers Milan
Really helpful and insightful 👍
Note: Sometimes the AI sam is a bit silly. It fires at maximum range which is very easy to evade. If the SAM let you to go closer, the real game begins.
Good video again! Thx for your effort!
Glad you like it!
wouldn't 90 degrees be better instead of 45 degrees so you would be invisble for the radar?
If you have sky behind you, trying to fool the doppler clutter rejection won't work. You only become "invisible" when there's ground behind you and your returns get filtered out.
im not experienced with notching, but that's another technique. 45 degrees attacks the kinetic energy by a) forcing a change in intercept path b) afterburning away after it loses propulsion.
Doesn't work against ground-based radar systems.
You would be very visible.
Great video. thanks
great info sir
Does DCS simulate a round earth? I thought I saw a test a while back that showed it did not.
I believe that is map dependent
@@Spudknocker I had no idea. That's kinda great!
Ive run missions on Marianas, Persian Gulf, and Syria that exploited the round earth, so it seems to simulate it.
Great video, except you should always fly the Tomcat. The Tomcat is life. :P
That's very interesting, and makes a lot of sense! Trying to run the missile out of energy instead of dodging it.
The thing is, though, you still end up running away. How do you go about trying to actually Wild Weasel these things, other than simply flinging HARMs or standoff weapons at them? (which isn't an option for the Grumble).
Do you maybe have to poke at the site from multiple angles with multiple aircraft at once, evading like this when any one of them is fired on, and coming back in again and again until someone gets close enough to land hits?
When you mention the SA-6 and 11 have roughly the same engagement range is there a document that has those modelled ranges?
Look for the "SAM Threat Guide V2.1" kneeboards on the DCS user files site, I'll post a link in a second comment but YT may delete it.
Hey spud. I've always wondered if head on is better or worse than an off set approach. Wouldn't a head on approach mean that the missile would launch at a longer range do to faster closure? Wouldn't beaming at missile launch and the added range make the missile easier to defeat? Could this maybe be a viable wild weasel strategy to deplete missiles?
I think that by starting at an offset the sam missile, starting from the site, already has to turn to intercept you, and turning consumes energy. While going head on doesn't require as much energy for the missile. So by having an offset and then doing the turn the overall energy of missile could be lower compared to what you were suggesting. Obviously i haven't tried it nor measured its energy, i am supposing the reason why it's done like that. Should be investigated though.
I am with here. To the energy of the missile it should not be much of a difference when the turn takes place, as long is it does take place. However, the earlier the missile is started, the more wiggle room you have, and the closer it is to its maximum range. So yes, I agree with you. Would be interesting to see what others think about it.
I have a question, when SAM fires at me, and I dont know the type of the SAM, should I perform evasive manouvers like you did for s300 just to be sure I dont get hit? Or should I perform manouvers showed earlier in the video ( hoping it wasnt indeed s300)
Thanks again!
Me when trying to evade SAMs: *dies*
This video is for you then! I hope it helps!
@@Spudknocker It definitely did, as always great work.
If I subscribe to the Patreon? How many 1 on 1 session am I entitled to and how long are those sessions
Hey friend! You can see example videos on my
Channel of lessons. They typically last about 1-2ish hours depending and I will typically do a schedule of a lesson every couple weeks or so. I try to give you as much homework as possible and set you up for success with that homework
@@Spudknocker okay, I’ll probably use ur Patreon and set something up tomorrow
Very helpful ✊✌️
25:10 hang on isn't DCSWorldPlanet flat
any idea how to evade when there are 2 sams fired from 2 different direction?
Thanks for the video.
The earth has no effect on curvature at this distance. The only thing that happens with a Split S. That the rocket can't distinguish between air and ground. As long as you fly down, it tries to estimate your position where you could be and intercept you into the ground. This works with all SAM positions that are radar-guided. Also with A2A
It will with some of those super long range missiles, but that's beside the point
Anyone know where the files are for the aim 260s spud used in the f15c vs typhoon video ?
What's that intro theme Spud?
Can We Do This Again In "Nuclear Option" Playtest
What do ya mean?
@@Spudknocker there is a game on playtest called "Nuclear Option" I have a hard time evading missiles but I will apply tactics from this video there. Thank you for this vid btw 🔥
@@kridadkool1319oh I see I don’t play that game but if missiles are modeled accurately this video should help!
Is the Jammer implemented?
Will this video keep me from perma dying on any coast line in any mission? No. But I'll watch anyway my man
May i ask what VR headset you use?
Using the Tomcat soundtrack with the Strike Eagle is such an egregious sin! The 15E isn't deserving of such things
Meteor, the author of the Album explicitly grants the right to use it for DCS video production... no matter the module. And as the artist he knows best!😂
@@shagrat47 It was a joke
cool video i got today 3 times killed by a saz thanks
The music reminds me of Ace Combat 2 for Playstation. 😃
What do you do when you are at a very low altitude and a SAM launches at you? Make your altitude lower and turn into a fast car.
whats your hotas setup like?
Sory to say but the assumption that constant course change will drain down missile energy is true in real life bit not in DCS. You can verify this by measuring missile speed and energy in straight and manoeuvre scenario by help of Tacview. DCS engine does not model drag coefficient change in a turn. Simple as that. It does model the coefficients based on air density though so draging a missile low is a good idea. But turning... Not much if a difference in range if you make prolonged turn after its engine burn off time or you mske a rapid vector change. Blame ED.
Also you cannot notch the SAM radar as you are not on cluttered radar background. From perspective of a SAM radar you are on clear blue sky.
Alsi you suggest to viewers the should crank imidiately to see a curve in missiles smoke. A curve in missile smoke does not change the situation dramatically if you are not going cold. This is due at this case missile is still gaining energy from it's burning engine. You di not mark the important aspect that any manoeuvres while missile is still burning is a waste of your energy only. Sure if this mske you going cold or low but otherwise will not make a difference.
Every single thing you said is wrong. Inertia is modeled, you can notch SAM radar IRL & in DCS, and it is NOT a waste of your energy to crank the missile while the rocket is burning. It has finite inertia, this is simple kinematics that is easy to understand.
F/A-18 weasel.. Should it be halled hornsel or weaslet?
good vid
brutal - sam operator getting killed by own SAM due to hitting tree/ground.
got any real life examples?
Mannn i dont even know how to do flares so im here turning like crazy and 90% get away by going up then down. Sometimes they seem to get lost in the clouds. maybe its just luck
The True air speed and Ground speed are in buttum of radar page G--- and T---.
intro music?
F-14 module soundtrack
"Zone V" - Meteor (Soundtrack for the DCS: F-14)
ua-cam.com/video/It2qo4JMxOQ/v-deo.html
It's very easy. You hear loud bee-boo you go "nope nope nope nope" do an 180 release a few flashy boys go full afterburner and pray.
👋👌👍💪💥🇦🇷
The Earth isn't round, we live on a flat plane. Wake up people!!!!!
the urge to say "kys"
but: hey spud what if we belief the earth is flat?
ohhhh i got you now spud you haven't a solution don't ya??
😉😄😄
SA-2.... dispense a bit of chaff, manuever, you dodged it.
SA-11, Dive, dispense chaff, go cold, you dodged it.
SA-5, Dive, Dispense chaff, go cold, you dodged it.
SA-5 short range, Dive, notch, dispense chaff, you dodged it.
SA-10, Just turn, stay cold, you dodged it.
BOOM, 40 minutes of content. Done. No need to explain further, not hard, just have your RWR on.
Now explain how to dodge an sa13... Which is... stay high, dispense flares if noticed.
This video is three bloody minutes old.
Sitting at the bottom like an addle schoolboy.
?
DCS SAM IS TOO EASY