Will Drones Take Over Crop Dusting?
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- Опубліковано 2 лис 2024
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I often get asked if my job is soon to be replaced by drones. I wouldn't rule it out in the future, but I'm not sure I see that as a viable option for aerial application in the next ten or so years. I'm not even sure I'll see it in my career. These are my thoughts and opinions on the matter currently. What do you think?
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The future holds exponential improvements.
Sorry pal, keep up with being you, you're great. And good luck, I need some luck too.
Thanks Jacob!
Love your videos! I want to become an ag pilot and these are full of advice and are awesome. I was wondering about this exact topic so I was glad to see this video. Love your channel and good luck spraying!
Thanks Alex appreciate you watching.
I think at the end of the day the role of the "Ag Pilot" is safe. Even if a drone is doing all of actual delivery of product, there will be a human responsible for ensuring the product is delivered in the right field at the right time at the right rate without drifting onto the wrong field. You might control the drone (or fleet of drones) remotely from a trailer somewhere nearby instead of putting your personal safety at risk, but you're still responsible for delivering the right product in the right place.
As an interim step, I could see drones working together with manned aircraft. A human covers the big distances through unobstructed fields. Swaths that can be flown quickly and relatively safely with manned aircraft. Then you send in a drone to complete the cleanup passes around trees, near pylons, etc. The drone can cover off all of the spots that are difficult to access safely in a fixed wing aircraft.
Those are valid points and I could see something like that as well.
I've just subscribed, I'm surprised this channel hasn't really blown up yet!
Thanks for coming over Danny! Please be sure to share.
@@AgAviationAdventures ppl
Hey man awesome video! I’m very interested in becoming an AG pilot. I already have my private and visited AG flight in Bainbridge, GA last week. The owner of the school quoted me a price of 60k for the rest of my training which seemed quite high to me considering I already have my private (65hrs total) and the only other rating I’ll get there will be my limited commercial. Is that a fair price? Do you have any AG flight schools that you would recommend? Thanks!
Thanks for watching John. That seems incredibly high and I would never pay that. You could check around at local FBOs and see what they would charge for your limited commercial. I went to Flying Tigers and took their Ag course. It was $14k at the time. I have a video on it but I would try to find someone to take you on if possible before going to an Ag school. I think the video is titled “Do You Want To Be An Ag Pilot”.
If you are talking about flying tigers over in Louisiana i stopped in and was told somebody “ran off with the money”. Couple years ago i believe.
Also i talked to the guy in bainbridge about 2 years ago and he told me around 40k and that was from 0 time to ag.
As a Farmer/Student Pilot and Drone Pilot i agree 100% but im exited to see what the future holds for Aerial Application
Absolutely I agree!
I just stumbled across your channel, and it's really cool to learn about ag aviation! I've never done it, but it looks fun as hell!
That said, I've been on both manned and unmanned sides of aviation. Nearly 20 years as a pilot, commercial, ASEL/AMEL, IFR, etc. I've also been a "drone" pilot for 9 years, mostly in military and defense contracting. You're thinking of drones in terms of Part 107 here in the US. You're totally right that those little 55lb things aren't suitable for ag flying. I know what big drones can do. Your technological arguments are non-starters. Most recently, I fly the MQ-9 Reaper, at 11,700lb MTOW, Honeywell (nee Garret) turbine powered, easily capable of the speeds you're flying, and probably with a greater payload. It could carry 5k lb between fuel and product. The tech you discussed (adjustable nozzles, etc) could easily be automated.
I'm a pilot, first and foremost, and the last thing I want is for manned aviation to suffer. But unmanned aircraft are the future, and I think crop dusting is low hanging fruit for automation.
It will for sure happen. Just a matter of time (and money).
Hey Tyson that’s a subject that you should’ve never entertain because we all know that a drone cannot take or do your job...I really enjoy your videos so keep them coming.
Thanks Charlie appreciate you watching.
I like to watch the flying going on in the video while you pontificate. A drone will absolutely eventually do your job. I flew Caravans for 15 years and I think they are first up, prototype drone Caravans are being tested now. If I was designing a drone to take over your job, I would make it something like the RQ7B shadows we flew in the Guard with VTOL, like the army is now testing. Your right about acreage, but costs could be kept low - individual farms could eventually get their own drone. Ag aviation doesn't have the scale that cargo flights has, the real societal issues with drones are going to be when trucking goes robotic. That's going to be alot of displaced workers. I wish there was more political discussion about how much robotics is good and bad for society as a whole.
Thanks for watching Marc.
I think you should make a new video talking about these products again looking at the new drones being used for agriculture. They can easily do 400 acres a day now and can even fly in pitch black with all the sensors they have.
Your right it may be time for an update.
I just find your videos/ channel Tyson. This is awesome. Glad to see you're doing well. Cheers
Hey Craig thanks for watching! Hope you're well and I need to make some time to get back and see old friends!
I don't think in the near future they will, but today operators should incorporate them into their aerial value for scout operations, crop health, yield mapping, history maps, etc to increase their business value to the farmers. I think alot of opportunities for a symbiotic relationship for task specific functions rather than competing against each other.
All great points Michael!
Was going to ask just that, watching another video, but realized I knew nothing about the topic.
Good thing you already made a video on it. One thing you didn't mention, when comparing a plane to a drone, is that you run on jet fuel, or bio diesel (I guess). Those will go up in price, whereas the drones' electricity only gets cheaper.
Yeah the plane runs on jet fuel.
@@AgAviationAdventures That I know, and also that fuel will get scarcer. A conversion to bio-diesel seems pretty easy, but even that won't help in the long run. Drones are getting cheaper and smarter, and at some future point in time, the shift will come.
Not soon hopefully, what you do is awesome!
Improvements is definitely relative 😢 as we all know
Yeah that's true.
oh hey, look, you covered this (I just commented on another video and now I feel like a dope).
No worries, thanks for watching Dave! Appreciate you watching.
Well put sir!
Thank you for watching!
Are you spraying insecticide or herbicide? big big difference between what the two involve.
I spray it all.
It seems to me that the issue with dusting drones is the substrate material: If a lighter, less viscous medium could be developed, the coverage area would expand, as well as create a reduction in drift loss of the pesticide.
You may be on to something.
Your video has been a big help. I was looking at drones. And we are also considering airplane. Either of them over using tractor sprayer 'cause of time to spray 40 hectares of dwarf coconut palms. Your video is a big insight. I watched an ag plane spraying bananas and that got me thinking. I am in Colima, Mexico. We need to spray the dwarf green coconut palms because of the giant South American Palm Weevil (SAPW). But the problem with the tractor unit is that it will take 8 days to do the 40 hectare orchard 'cause must stop each day when sun comes out and into force (it gets hot real quick). So there is a small window of opportunity to spray (plus the tractor breaks down = flat tire, etc, and so on, plus expense of tractor driver and two workers spraying). We will spray an essential oil mix that I developed as microemulsion repellent to the weevil. Where can I get the information on different nozzles and the plane vortices, downdraft, etc = the studies? We will talk to the pilot this week. Thanks, Andrew
Hi Andrew. A great resource is the National Agricultural Aviation Association website. They have lots of information published that you will find useful. Thanks for watching.
@@AgAviationAdventures Ok thanks, cheers
What company is doing pulse width modulation?
Honestly I can't remember the name. I saw that at the NAAA convention a couple years ago.
I really love your videos glad I discovered them and I can learn from them I want to be an ag pilot but I was wondering about the salary you don’t have to answer if you don’t want to but could you give me a ballpark estimate of how much crop dusters make please and thank you
Thanks for watching Dekota. Pilots are payed per acre so the more you spray the more you make. People that have long seasons or spray a lot through the summer can make $100k plus. Typical may be $60k-$80k.
Ag Aviation Adventures thank you so much love your content
A good advice to fly Fields with powerlines
Thanks for watching!
I could see older planes converted to semi autonomous or remote piloted top dressers. The technology is nearly there.
The technology is there, the military is using it. But it’s a bit expensive still.
Do you wear an evolution helmet?
Yes
Ag Aviation Adventures the 152?
It’s the 252 with the dual visors.
I just got my commercial pilot's license. How does one get into this industry as a pilot
Congrats and good luck zipper. Check out the “Do You Want To Be An Ag Pilot” video.
What got you interested in being a crop duster pilot
I wanted to be a SEAT pilot and this was going to be a stepping stone to get there.
to match 1000 acres a day, you would 4 to 5 of the largest available ag drones and their ground crews running dawn to dusk flawlessly. it is technically possible, but anyone who has used drones knows, doing that for one day, much less back to back for a season, is pretty unlikely 😆
Those are great points.
Actually to do 1000 acres you need 2 drones flying for 12 hours. The cost of 2 drones of that class is 25,000$ each or 50,000$ total. Assuming your paying 2 operators 50,000 each per season, labor cost would be 100,000$ per season. All in per year cost if you had to buy both drones every season to spray 1,000 acres per day would be 200,000$. I guarantee you that the annual cost of a air tractor 502 with pilot and loader is well over 200,000$.
whens a new video coming out
Sorry we’ve been running solid every day since July 1st. Hope to get one out soon.
Ag Aviation Adventures I figured that’s what was going on or you ran out of ideas haha I’ve been rewatching your vids between loads haha
This poor guys is explaining his job away.
I'm not too worried.
Define "drone". The reason that quadcopters or hexacopters will not compete with ag planes is _not_ because they are unmanned, but because fixed wing aircraft can cover more ground in less time and efficiently carry more weight. A large fixed wing drone may be a different story. Indeed, the military has fixed wing drones that carry large payloads, and (as far as I understand it) something like an Airbus is basically just a drone with passengers and some human pilots who are mostly just along for the ride.
I believe that a stronger argument to make your case may be economics. In one of your videos you shared that an ag pilot earns around 20% of the cost of a job. If someone could fully eliminate a human pilot, that's a moderate profit margin. However, the NAAA reports there's only 3400 ag pilots in the US making an average salary of just over $70k, so that's under $250M/year total. So there's some money to be made, but to eliminate a human pilot you've gotta make an autonomous system that can navigate around trees, power lines, large trucks, birds, and everything else you may encounter out there. The companies that are capable of building such a system are probably already busy making autonomous ground vehicles, where there's a lot more money to be made because the market is _much_ bigger.
I would expect that automation will continue to creep into ag planes, but I don't think the pilot will be automated away any time soon. I would think a bigger risk to the profession is the entire industry becoming irrelevant after being superseded by more cost effective means. More automation in the ag plane industry will lead to lower costs (things like optimizing the spray nozzles), which keeps ag planes cost effective, which protects the profession. As an ag pilot, you should welcome automation in the industry, not fear that it will take your job!
Disclaimer: I am a computer scientist with an interest in aviation and autonomous vehicles. I am not a pilot but I've taken a few flying lessons and I recently took up RC planes. I'm not an expert on the matter, but I think this channel is neat and the topic is interesting.
Great input!
PWM is so horribly misunderstood. It's just a square wave, where the period gets to change. It has nothing to do with how many nozzles you can control. Everything that switches uses PWM. It's in everything you own.
Thanks for watching Mike!
The argument of daily coverage possible (1000 acres vs 100 acres) doesn’t take into account that multiple drones can work the same field at the same time. The computer programs that manage drones is incredibly powerful and sophisticated. It could easily tell 1000 drones what to do all at once and complete the field in a fraction of the time it takes for a single manned aircraft to do it. Still, charging and filling 1000 drones would take much longer.
All your other points are valid.
Great point!
I was about to type the same comment when I read yours. Drones will not be used one at a time but probably in swarms. The cost benefit ratio will be deciding factor and currently it is moving into the direction of drones. By the way, while most drones are quad-copter or some other multiple of 2, there are many fixed wing drones that can easily fly a predetermined preprogrammed route.
It only takes three DJI Agras T30 drones working together to hit 1000 acres per day, which you can control all three from one controller. All with no jet fuel, insurance, maintenance costs, overhead....
A 502 can do 4k acres in a day, only goes up from there.
People need jobs and back when I did this was in love with my job
Was the best job I ever had so I hope they never take over
Agreed thanks for watching Vance.
Ag Aviation Adventures
Keep up the great job Tyson you will inspire so many young people
And they need someone like you for their inspiration your a great guy
Anyone that is watching Tyson please listen to what he is telling you because he has payed his dues and what he is telling you will keep you alive
When I did this I had no one and messed up lots and it’s a wonder I lived through it just luck not smarts I did things the Cowboy way but my God there were times in the plane I thought it was the end for me
Thanks Vance very kind words.
1 dislike came from the guy who wrote the drone thing
Haha thanks for watching.
@@AgAviationAdventures np
2 years later and it's already happening. Cost is significantly lower.
My suggestion, get with the times.
Thanks for watching Alin!
No Drones will never be in Ag Avig
Thanks for watching Steve.
Drones will have to be able to hold up in the environment those planes live in. Dirty, dusty, rotten and corrosive. Even the paint on those planes is special technology made to last in such conditions . The small electronics and materials modern drones are built with will not even come close to holding up. Maybe in the future, but not right now.
I agree, not right now.
You might want to look into this subject more before making a video on the subject. Drones are becoming more and more capable. Modern spray drones have a lot more capability than you think. As battery technology increases, these capabilities will become only better. Just because something has been the go to for a long time, doesn't mean it will always be that way. Confirmation bias is a killer for all aging industries.
Thanks for watching Neil. I agree, it will only get better. This video is 3 years old and I’m still seeing the basic DJI spraying. Guardian seems to have something at least viable with a 20 gallon tank but they’ve been talking about it for 6 years as it continues to evolve. Supposedly it will be released this year. I think there are still lots of hurdles to overcome. I’ll give it another 5 years to see where they’re at. Right now they are still more trouble then it’s worth but with time they’ll get better. The first agricultural drone was introduced by Yamaha around 2000 so it’s about time someone has a drone that can actually get something done. I’m more worried about the spray pattern then anything else. Out of the multiple people that have tried to sell us drones no one can give me concrete data on what the pattern actually looks like.
@@AgAviationAdventures Mostly agree. The one thing holding back drones right now is batteries. Of course it will be some time before drones fully replace ag pilots. With that said drones are starting to fill in gaps that neither fixed wing or rotary wing maned systems can do. The market is already moving in that direction it is just a matter of time.
I'd say the pattern as well. If the product is not getting applied evenly the farmers are not getting the full benefit of the product (that they're paying $$$ for). Also chemical labeling may be a set back. You also just said yourself that they are starting to "fill in the gaps that neither fixed wing or rotary maned systems can do." I don't disagree with that but like stated in the video, I don't believe drones will take over our industry.
@@AgAviationAdventures I do not understand how your coming to a conclusion that drones cannot evenly apply product. There is much more technology in modern drones than in aircraft developed in the 80's. Just from a purely cost and safety perspective, drones will absolutely replace manned aircraft. Not only will drones replace pilots, but they are going to do it much sooner than you think. Right now an operator can buy 13 spray drones and pay 13 people to operate them at 50,000$ each per year for the price of a singe ag plane. Each of those drones can spray 400 acres a day. those 13 drones and 13 operators can spray 5000 acres per day, totaling 300,000 acres in a 60 day season. All without the risk of loosing a single pilot or the risk of an accident costing them 1,000,000$ to replace an airplane. Does that mean that drones can operate at the same profit and cost of an ag plane, of course not. But, a cell phone today costs way more than a wired phone 10 years ago. Did that stop everyone from converting to cell phones, absolutely not. People are happy to pay 1,000$ for a cell phone while virtually no home today has a land line. If drones can provide a better and safer product (which they can), then they will replace ag planes and helicopters (which they will), and people will happily pay more for it. It's basic economics.
@@malloyneil40 If that’s the case then I look forward to the day I’m running 13 drones and paying 13 employees. Because it’s easy to find people who want to work in rural America for $20-$25 an hour. I shouldn’t have any problem finding a bunch of them. Nor should anyone else.
Every chemical label will need new language since there is currently nothing registered for drones. And to my understanding there is not insurance available yet for drones.
It’s coming, just lots of hurdles to work through. I’ll be running them once it’s not such a cluster. If it’s within the next 10-15 years.
you are missing one thing my man, drones cost next to nothing to maintain, you own your aircraft. and they are getting bigger and bigger. plus the disproportion of the water/pesticides/etc coming from a fixed wing is not even, it tends to go sideways. drones are more precise , you own them at the expense of renting a manned aircraft, maintenance is very low. storage is not that difficult, you can operate multiple of them. should i go on? main thing is that we can spray dust, crops, water,pesticides.
Thanks for watching!
How will you ever get a drone to take off with 2200 lbs of nitrogen and phosphate? Never happen. Their use will very limited such a spraying a cow pasture and small gardens.
Well they are taking off full of bombs but they cost 5 million dollars and take a crew to run them.
I'm a computer scientist, but as someone with an interest in agriculture and aviation, perhaps I'd be an ag pilot in another lifetime...
Thanks for watching Hunter.