What do tou do if your griff develops hard mouth. After about 4 or 5 points/retrieves my 18 month old griff starts crunching birds. I will say i have not force fetched him yet.
FF will help cure this. I make the dog hold the bird for a long time if they start to munch, or mouth. (So long that they don't want to hold it any longer.) They will learn to deliver the bird right away without hard mouth if this is done correctly. In the old days folks used barbed-wire with duct tape over it so when the dog chops down the barbs would poke the mouth... that's a too hard for me! What I do is take wire-ties, some folks call them zip-ties and I put them around a dead bird and cut the ends off the ties and use a file to smooth them out. I use a number of ties on the bird. This leaves a bunch of knobs on the birds body. I'll then make the pup retrieve and hold that if they have a hard mouth. This is uncomfortable to them, but not painful... they don't like the feeling and again they don't like to have to hold for a long time, so they'll soon pick the bird up softly and want to give it to your right away. This is all done Only after FF is completed and your dog understands what its job is. If it was me I would stop using birds at all in this off season and do the entire FF and then half frozen birds and then see if your pup still has a hard mouth, if it does then I'd do the above... Hope this helped... please take your time and don't rush or put too much pressure on the pup/dog.
I would just add the word fetch when they start the reach to take the item. It's a very easy transfer from the hold command to the fetch command. My pups all learn fetch at an early age in play. I make them whoa then toss a toy and tell them fetch for the release. I don't make them bring the item to hand when they're young, it's all fun. So after FF I add the hold to the fetch and then after repetitive retrieves I'll drop the hold. If I have a pup that I'm working with that doesn't know fetch I'll say fetch when they start reaching for the item, then just continue to use the word fetch as they reach for the item, then when they pick up the item, then when they go for the retrieve. First very short distance, then stretch it out to longer and longer distance. If at first the pup won't go for the retrieve after they know to reach and pick up the item at the command, I'll put a slip lead on them and after I give the fetch command I'll make them walk forward to pick up the item. Hope that made sense, George
Thanks George! that makes sense.. What I'm dealing with right now is a 14 month old pup just finished her first hunting season... she is very keen to be hunting, likes guns and running in the woods. She points well but still flash points... my problem is after the shot I release her, she will go to the bird but many times will just play around tossing the bird in the air and then finally after some stern words she will come on her own time. I did use an ecollar while hunting but found if I told her to fetch or come with the bird and she didnt I would give her a nick, then she would drop it all together and come to me. So im guessing the association was negative, so i stopped using it all together while hunting. I have heard to use a check cord while hunting but we hunt in trees not open fields. Also currently "come" has become a big struggle, she likes to mess around in the yard and come when she feels like it, not when told. Do you have any suggestions for me? Do you think FF will solve my problem?
FF will solve the problem if done correctly. Be sure the pup is finished with the items such as paint roller, PVC, etc. The pup must reach for the item and take the item from you first, then pick the item off the ground, then go out to get the item. Very short distance at first then stretching out the distance. If the pup doesn't pick up the item, put a lead on it and make it pick it up with whatever technique you're using for uncomfortableness. The pup must know it stops the uncomfortbleness by picking up the item. After you have that in place, you go to the bumper. Start again with hold, reach, pick up, hold the then come with the item and finally go out and get. After that you switch to the bird, same progress. Hold first, etc. What you're doing is teaching the pup to hold, come and pick up an object that doesn't relate to hunting so you can apply pressure and not have a negative affect on birds or hunting. Then after that is solidly in place and the pup knows what's expected you transfer over to birds. This is all done at home and only after it is completely done do you enforce it in the field. Before I go out on an actual hunt I like to plant a couple of birds in our training field and shoot over the dog. If it doesn't fetch the bird, I'll stop put a lead on the dog and make it comply. I give it a lot of praise with it complies and then do it again. When a pup is FF correctly and it starts playing with the bird, it usually only takes a NO FETCH for the pup to realize you mean business and an enforcement if necessary, after that the pup will pick up the bird every time. If it doesn't you may have missed a step in the FF. BTW, by now come should be well in place. You need to let the dog know who's boss. Do sessions of come and use a lead, slip collar, e-collar, whatever to let the pup know come means come. There can only be one quarterback it's either you or her. I always have come well in place before FF. George
What do tou do if your griff develops hard mouth. After about 4 or 5 points/retrieves my 18 month old griff starts crunching birds. I will say i have not force fetched him yet.
FF will help cure this. I make the dog hold the bird for a long time if they start to munch, or mouth. (So long that they don't want to hold it any longer.) They will learn to deliver the bird right away without hard mouth if this is done correctly. In the old days folks used barbed-wire with duct tape over it so when the dog chops down the barbs would poke the mouth... that's a too hard for me! What I do is take wire-ties, some folks call them zip-ties and I put them around a dead bird and cut the ends off the ties and use a file to smooth them out. I use a number of ties on the bird. This leaves a bunch of knobs on the birds body. I'll then make the pup retrieve and hold that if they have a hard mouth. This is uncomfortable to them, but not painful... they don't like the feeling and again they don't like to have to hold for a long time, so they'll soon pick the bird up softly and want to give it to your right away. This is all done Only after FF is completed and your dog understands what its job is. If it was me I would stop using birds at all in this off season and do the entire FF and then half frozen birds and then see if your pup still has a hard mouth, if it does then I'd do the above... Hope this helped... please take your time and don't rush or put too much pressure on the pup/dog.
@@georgedecostaandthehunting7629 thank you for the help
what do you do if you tell your dog to fetch but they dont go to the item?
I would just add the word fetch when they start the reach to take the item. It's a very easy transfer from the hold command to the fetch command. My pups all learn fetch at an early age in play. I make them whoa then toss a toy and tell them fetch for the release. I don't make them bring the item to hand when they're young, it's all fun. So after FF I add the hold to the fetch and then after repetitive retrieves I'll drop the hold. If I have a pup that I'm working with that doesn't know fetch I'll say fetch when they start reaching for the item, then just continue to use the word fetch as they reach for the item, then when they pick up the item, then when they go for the retrieve. First very short distance, then stretch it out to longer and longer distance. If at first the pup won't go for the retrieve after they know to reach and pick up the item at the command, I'll put a slip lead on them and after I give the fetch command I'll make them walk forward to pick up the item. Hope that made sense, George
Thanks George! that makes sense.. What I'm dealing with right now is a 14 month old pup just finished her first hunting season... she is very keen to be hunting, likes guns and running in the woods. She points well but still flash points... my problem is after the shot I release her, she will go to the bird but many times will just play around tossing the bird in the air and then finally after some stern words she will come on her own time. I did use an ecollar while hunting but found if I told her to fetch or come with the bird and she didnt I would give her a nick, then she would drop it all together and come to me. So im guessing the association was negative, so i stopped using it all together while hunting. I have heard to use a check cord while hunting but we hunt in trees not open fields. Also currently "come" has become a big struggle, she likes to mess around in the yard and come when she feels like it, not when told.
Do you have any suggestions for me? Do you think FF will solve my problem?
FF will solve the problem if done correctly. Be sure the pup is finished with the items such as paint roller, PVC, etc. The pup must reach for the item and take the item from you first, then pick the item off the ground, then go out to get the item. Very short distance at first then stretching out the distance. If the pup doesn't pick up the item, put a lead on it and make it pick it up with whatever technique you're using for uncomfortableness. The pup must know it stops the uncomfortbleness by picking up the item. After you have that in place, you go to the bumper. Start again with hold, reach, pick up, hold the then come with the item and finally go out and get. After that you switch to the bird, same progress. Hold first, etc. What you're doing is teaching the pup to hold, come and pick up an object that doesn't relate to hunting so you can apply pressure and not have a negative affect on birds or hunting. Then after that is solidly in place and the pup knows what's expected you transfer over to birds. This is all done at home and only after it is completely done do you enforce it in the field. Before I go out on an actual hunt I like to plant a couple of birds in our training field and shoot over the dog. If it doesn't fetch the bird, I'll stop put a lead on the dog and make it comply. I give it a lot of praise with it complies and then do it again. When a pup is FF correctly and it starts playing with the bird, it usually only takes a NO FETCH for the pup to realize you mean business and an enforcement if necessary, after that the pup will pick up the bird every time. If it doesn't you may have missed a step in the FF. BTW, by now come should be well in place. You need to let the dog know who's boss. Do sessions of come and use a lead, slip collar, e-collar, whatever to let the pup know come means come. There can only be one quarterback it's either you or her. I always have come well in place before FF. George