Brontosaurus - The Story of the Thunder Lizard
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- Опубліковано 15 жов 2024
- The history of Brontosaurus is one of the most fascinating tales in palaeontology, full of controversies, missing heads and charismatic yet unpleasant people.
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Sources:
peerj.com/arti...
marsh.dinodb.co...
www.miketaylor....
www.nature.com...
en.wikipedia.o...
svpow.com/2015...
www.scientific...
marsh.dinodb.co...
extinctmonster...
svpow.com/2015...
www.miketaylor....
time.com/38101...
www.skeptic.co...
I will always remember my first dino toy; It had "Brontosaurus" tattooed on the belly.
It was a Stegosaurus anyway.
Diego Manzano Parás sounds like that “I am a stegosaurus” video 😂
I whole heartedly recommend a channel called Your Dinosaurs Are Wrong.
Lol 😂 hahaha
Diego Manzano Parás 😂
What brand? Do you know?
Apatosaurus means "deceptive lizard" which is pretty appropriate given this whole debacle.
Worm
@Jacob Kimber a debacle is a sporadic scenario viewed with at least a small degree of negativity. Like a polite way of saying clusterfuck.
See a search engine or online dictionary for more info.
Impostersaurus Amongus
@@Smartacus98 ImpostersaurSUS
I wanted to be a brontosaurus so bad when I was a kid. My heart was broken the day I realized it wasnt gonna happen.
PopeJones Wang never give up on your Dreams!
Your wish might be granted in another life...😉
@@liloleist5133 Don't you mean a previous life?
My primary school made us read a book and the while plot was a tadpole wanted to be something that wasn't a frog and everyone else said "you'll be a frog and you'll like it" and the conclusion of the book was that he became a frog and he liked it and all I could think was WHAT that's the worst moral ever it literally saying you don't have control over your life (which is true but still)
It's ok. I went through the same thing when I wanted to be a Triceratops.
12:10 that’s what I always suspected. If we would know humans only from fossils, the skeletons of Dwayne „the rock“ Johnson and Danny De Vito would lead to two different human species.
There’d be more than just 2. Gotta consider biological differences between races. The bones of monks from Tibet would be one, then native islanders would be another, just basically any race would be up for grabs as a new human species
@@HHLucifer666 DNA between people is 99.9% the same. Hopefully we would pick that up with modern techniques. Morphological differences between humans are really the only major differences. A bit like how dogs are all the same species but look wildly different.
Well they are so.
This is the smartest comment I've read this year...
Well DNA tests usually rule that out.
The bone wars sounds like a megadeth album
Sounds like quite a spooky time
@@connorslevin7812 your a worm
Well I know what to name my dinosaur-themed power metal band
Yes, I have found another man of culture.
@@aircraftcarrierwo-class name the first album “speculative biology”
Brontosaurus is simply an objectively superior name.
THUNDAH LIZAAARD
T U N D A L I Z A D
Brontosaurus:Considered a false species and genus
Also brontosaurus: I will be back...
Did you die?
Yes... BUT I LIVED!!!
Well some of them are smarter than others.
Worm
The animated classic The Land Before Time also featured a Brontosaurus, teaching a whole generation of kids that name.
Didnt they only call each other: spike tails, 3 horns, long necks, sharp tooths, duckbills, and flyers?
I never heard an actual species be named in 7 of those movies
Littlefoot and his Grandparents' facial features resemble Camarasaurus, though
That's right, Little Foot's species is simply called "longnecks" in the film. However, in all the commercials, articles and reviews at the time, everyone called them Brontosaurs, so the kids memorized it as the proper designation for that species, even though the name fell out of use later. Reminds me of the whole Pluto is(n't) a planet deal, now.
@@AB-xd8hm well, I was born in the 2000's so i wasnt around to see the commercials but I still grew up with a VCR and watched the movies
I hear you. Back in the day, you kind of had to rely on stuff like ads and articles for information about new releases and, in case of animation, which character is what species. :)
Last time I was this early, brontosaurus was still kicking it
I usually think of these comments as the most annoying ones, but this made me laugh, you beat me Matheronodon.
Sonnenrad I’m glad I could do my part, and to be honest this kinds of comments annoy me too 😂
*Imagines a brontosaurus kicking the clown from the movie It*
@@jokuvaan5175 We already live in Clown World, you may see that happen in the next 'It' movie, but the brontosaurus will be bisexual and 'It' will be a minority which is (painted as) a victim.
@@sonnenrad229 Imagine being so obsessed with political propaganda that you go spread it in an educational video about a dinosaur.
Excellent and informative video. I knew the basics of the old Brontosaurus vs. Apatosaurus confusion, but most of the info on the people involved was new to me.
Same. Scientific drama always amuses me too.
Brontosaurus was always the paleontology fan friends we made along the way
Brontosaurus. The Pluto of the paleontology world? 😂
only that Pluto isn't getting back its status as a planet.. and we know for a fact that it exists.. but is just small enough to be rather classified as a planetoid
Juwarra and brontosaurus is a dinosaur and remains that way unlike Pluto
Lol so funny xd hahhaha
Juwarra until they change the way things are classified.
Thought that was pteranadon
I had always heard that Brontosaurus was just an Apatosaurus with the wrong skull attached, so back in 2015 I was pretty confused how it could be "brought back." The whole story makes a lot more sense, thanks for clearing that up for me.
I was a dinosaur freak avant la lettre. My grandfather bought me a children’s science book about dinosaurs. Since then I was hooked . I was 8 years old and we were still living in the 70s😃. Then the Brontosaurus still was a plump lizard that had to sit around in swamps because he couldn’t bear his own weight. The mighty T-Rex was some kind of not to smart predator because he just had to catch these water bound dino’s. They looked totally different too. Off course I knew all their names and the translation (my grandfather knew a bit Greek and Latin) by heart. So, I am a live witness of how the finding of more fossils changed the understanding of these incredible beasts and thus changed the names, the way they look and their behaviour. This was a fine episode that made me a bit nostalgic, thanks.
Lilith Eden actually the 70s was the very beginning of the dinosaur renaissance.
Bennett Fender yes, that was probably why the book was in the shop. I think that was when the then young palaeontologists were starting to debunk the old ways of thinking about dinosaurs. It must have been exciting times being part of that.
Lilith Eden yep read the Dinosaur Heresies written by at least in my opinion the greatest paleontologist ever Robert Bakker it really shows how forward thinking he was.
Bennett Fender Bakker is indeed one of the greatest and he is way cool looking. He is getting old though. He was in a lot of the eighties and nineties shows about dinosaurs and palaeontology. He also was one of the first to argue that dinosaurs had to be warm blooded. The way he speaks shows how driven he is. The most fun thing I find about him is that he gave advise for one of the Jurassic Park films. He is real down to earth guy. His vision on things changed a lot .
Lilith Eden yep it'll be a very sad day when he passes. Too bad that fool Horner overshadows him.
What did you do at the petting zoo?
Apatosaurus.
Nice pun
Braeden Doose shhh
Not what did you smoke;(
What did you do;) ...stone age humor
Is the joke implying that you fucked a dinosaur?
I heard that their meat make some of the best burgers in some town called Bedrock.
I heard that the grand dad of the famous plumbern't Mario Mario lived in that town.
Holy Fuck that was original.
but the take-out ribs will flip your car over.
Fleentstoens?!
hahahah boomer jokes
I love how newer discoveries are basically making charles knight's art more accurate again. (I mean aside from the being in water and dragging tail bit, but hey who knows what will be better understood in the future).
His painting of the two Dryptosaurs "Leaping Lizards," to this day is remarkably accurate.
off topc, your avi is soo pretty
Almost definitely not the trail dragging, we have loads of sauropod tracks without tail drag marks. But sauropods definitely did go in water, they just didn't need to be in water (I mean, you don't evolve legs like that to swim).
Stegosaurus, among the most popular but overlooked dinosaurs ever
But still the greatest of all time.
Who would win???
One thunder thigh sauropod who weighs multiple tons...
Vs...
*O N E S T E G G Y B O I*
@@HHLucifer666 stegosaurus is gonna pull a Kyrie Irving and break his ankles
“Sauropods dominate the late Jurassic, and it will be millions of years before new dinosaur herbivores evolve to replace them. With their passing, life will never again be this large”
Except for Titanosaurs.
@@Deform-2024 titanosaurs were just vibin in the late cretaceous
Whales: Hold my krill.
@@JAGzilla-ur3lh whales aren't herbivores though
@@diegodankquixote-wry3242 I was responding specifically to the "life will never again be this large" part. Guess I should have made that more clear.
So glad y'all put this out there. I lost track if Brontosaurus was real or not.
Brontosauri remained my steadfast favorites even when they were purported not to exist.
I went to The field museum a couple years ago and just the sight of the “unknown dinosaur “ towering over as you first walk in is breath taking! I wish I had a time machine, the first place I’d go is 100 million years in the past if even for a second!
So glad to hear a mention of “Bully for Brontosaurus” in this video. The moment I clicked on it, I thought, “there has to be at least a small portion dedicated to it.”
Thanks for an informative video. Back in the late 1950's and early '60's, the U. S. had a dinosaur craze. Cereal manufacturers even put small rubber dinos in cereal boxes. That is how I got my first dino, and it was a brontosaurus. I loved it, and was hooked on dinos - as was every other kid in school.
By the way, the cryptid creature named Mokele-mbembe, supposedly in central Africa, has been described as a bronto-like creature, though a miniaturized version thereof. I guess with the change in the volume of oxygen in the air since brontosaur's time, any surviving dinosaur would have to be smaller than the original.
Thank you for this! I was very confused when I saw people start referring to brontosaurus as real again, since I remembered it being "fake" during my childhood. This clears the matter up nicely!
Man, the record scratch in my brain that happened when you said that the dinosaur in the natural history museum, which popularized 'Brontosaurus' is an unknown species.
Continuing thanks for your brilliant and succinct reporting of technical paleo topics. It's really superlative, and brings so much knowledge to us in just a few minutes. Bravo!
These videos are so interesting. Pls never stop.
I like to use "brontosaurus" as just a colloquial name for any long-necked dinosaur. Like, "bear", or "cat", or "frog".
I remember this "Brontosaurus" appearing in DINO RIDERS. That was epic :D
I'm kind of amazed they haven't rebooted Dino Riders yet.
This is one of my favourite things about academic endeavors - when the plucky underdog turns out to be right...
...about the name of something that has been dead for millions of years. So heartwarming!
I love how event though I myself and many others had never thought about you doing it, it still comes out as an amazing video!
Being a child of the fifties and sixties, Brontosaurus was one of the first dinosaurs I ever learned about as a kid, and sadly for posterity not the only one to no longer to be considered a "real" dinosaur. We had far fewer names to latch onto then, but firmly ingrained in my psyche were Tyrannosaurus Rex, Brontosaurus, Stegosaurus, Trachodon, Triceratops, Ankylosaurus, Dimetrodon (not actually a dinosaur, I know), Plesiosaurus* and Pteranodon* (*also not dinosaurs, but kids don't make such distinctions). Good old Thunder Lizard has a place in my heart forever, whatever the naming conventions dictate
Honestly, Brontosaurus is such an iconic and great sounding name that i think it should be adopted as a name for a species of Apatosaurus. Maybe not as it's own creature, although if it is discovered that it is an entirely separate species than that is also worth looking into, but if a operate species of Apatosaurus gets discovered, i wouldn't mind if they named that specific species of Apatosaurus as a nod to the now memorable and iconic name. I don't see any real reason why bronto can't be welcomed in with the Apatosaurus lineage, if it isn't separate from them all together.
I love the shots with the Zallinger mural in the background
Paleontologist: Yeah, this is not so hard.
Brontosaurus/Apatosaurus and Spinosaurus: I'm about to end this man's whole career
I’ve always wondered if paleontologist mix matched bones together to JUMP to a conclusion and “Diplodocisaurid’s” fascinatingly are the answer. That whole bit about if the full skeletons of Apatosaurus/Brontosaurus are varying individuals within a species or signs of sexual dysmorphism WAS REALLY INTERESTING and made me think about possible mishaps in Hadrosaur and Tyrannosaurid families
"Thunder lizard" might sound cool in a Saturday morning cartoon of decades past kind of way, but I feel "deceptive lizard" better reflects the naming history of and confusion caused by the remains of these creatures.
really interesting, its great that your videos always tell the whole story because when I want to learn about a specific dinosaur or animal usually I cant find a lot of information and your videos helped me a lot!
Diplodocids have always been the coolest dinosaurs, small therapods being a close second.
Superb video! Great job in presenting the long taxonomic history, the results of Tschopp et al. and the criticisms of it.
So many new types and i find it amazing...confused but amazed too, thank you.
Rewrite the books every year thats plaeolontology in a nutshell
Nobody cares about your opinion since you can't spell paleontology, or even bother to use your spell checker.
Lol it was a joke
Not much of a joke. Its true. They fill in blanks with speculation and want concrete proof to change anything.
It shouldn't be rewrites. They should just say what they know and update as more is discovered and make it very clear what they are unsure of and is educated guess work or straight out guesses.
Their skin, scale, fur or feathers is an example of what I mean.
@@slappy8941 curb your reddit herd mentality
@@slappy8941 cringe
I've been following this for years, thanks for the update.
I learned as a kid that they called it Brontosaurus because it thundered as it walked. This I regard as implausible. It seems to me that they would have walked more like elephants who walk quietly as cats. This is a personal observation from my time as a zookeeper taking care of elephants.
Palpatine:"The one who had power to cheat existence"
Anakin:"How do you learn this power?"
Palpatine:"Not from a palentologist"
Brontosaurus: "Hello there!!"
Good to see the chunky thunder boy make to reality, I hope he makes return in movies and such but who knows tbh
نلم
General Bronto
The thing I like the most about this video is objectivity and you list the sources for your research! Thanks for this, you've cleared up some of my confusion over the 2015 debate. It always surprised me how reluctant scientists, historian, archaeologist, paleontologist, and so on, are to accept new information and data. I mean those fields are literally based on conjecture until it can be proven out... yet anytime something new comes up with the possibility of the past assumptions being wrong... look out it's going down, and any way to disprove each other is on the table.
Just hearing "Brontosaurus" makes me want to re-watch Dino-Riders, that's where I first learned the word when I was just 2 or 3. Those final two episodes focusing around the two factions fighting over it were fantastic.
I still remember the debates about that the Saurpods have ever received any parental care
The latest consceus states that it is heavily *differentiated* between Species to Species, right?
Did you the Google translate?
@@slappy8941 No, it is your lack of capacity to understand english, dear grammar nazi.
Everything that I have ever mentioned in the comment is clear cut. That if any Sauropod ever received parental care, and mentioning that I have heard it differentaite from species to species
@@thedoruk6324 chill mote
@@dinogamergaming I am chill, but there are commentators like this whose purpose in life to 'troll you out' in every comment
@Mycel What do you mean? It looks fine to me.
I remember reading the 2015 paper in a college library and freaking out and people looking at me like I was the biggest nerd ever. I realized it's quite hard to express to people in their mid-20's why a 30 year old was freaking out over dinosaur research publications...
Parents in 2015: I WAS RIGHT!!! BRONTOSAURUS IS A REAL DINOSAUR!!!
Kids: The head is still wrong.
Paleontologists: Well, it's complicated...
I watched this video a second time. I'm a big fan of the Brontosaurus and it was sad when scientists published articles about the dinosaur that never existed. The Brontosaurus lives!
I grew up in Pittsburgh and have been going to the Carnegie Museum of Natural History since at least 1958. I was actually there this past July 15, 2023. So I have seen both the original mount of their Brontosaurus with the Camarasaurus skull (which they still have displayed on a stand) and the current Apatosaurus mount. It is great to see my museum featured in one of your videos. I count myself extremely fortunate to still live in Pittsburgh. If you're ever here, I invite you to enjoy one of my favorite views of these dinosaurs from the second and third floor windows of the library which overlook them.
I grew up with it being called brontosaurus, and I now understand they're called Apatosaurus. Like a lot of things in science and archaeology/paleontology, our understanding and discoveries will change what we used to know. We have to accept the changes as truth and keep on discovering in order to know more. Great video!
0:43 Edward Drink a Coke?
coke runs in the family
No, Drink a Cope. Cope being an off brand cola you get when you can't afford real Coke.
Yes
0:44 I thought he said "Edward Drink a coke" I'm dead-
As a child almost 60 years ago, i was in awe of the skeleton at Peabody museum. Unforgettable
It's good to see that Winsor McCay got Gertie's head right. In the live-action prologue, he is seen examining the specimens at what is probably the NYMNH: if I recall correctly, they had already replaced the skull by then...
That was an incredibly informative and entertaining video. My (completely unofficial) opinion of the whole matter when I was informed that brontosaurus was in fact apatosaurus was that if in modern English we call the beast scientifically known as panthera leo a lion, then we can call the beast scientifically known as apatosaurus escelsis a brontosaurus. Keep up the good work.
Someone linked this to me in a discord chat, glad I did! Going to be checking out your other works (I think I watched a bit of your accuracy of walking with dinosaurs vid) , and subscribed!! .. I never knew bronto was called thunder lizard, now that's a badass dinosaur name, paints a picture! 👌
Still my fave dino after all these years. ❤
I've been visiting the Yale skeleton for almost 40 years and it was a big part of my childhood.
I grew up with the Brontosaurus in Carnegie Museum of Pittsburgh. I am glad the Brontosaurus (Thunder Lizard) name is back in science! Other things that changed: When I was young, Tyrannosaurus Rex stood upright, tail dragging on the ground. Famous painting in Carnegie Museum showing this. These days, he's depicted as standing bird-like with his tail off the ground. Carnegie Museum also has a Triceratops & Stegosaurus. These were the dinosaurs that fascinated my youth!
Except the specimen at Carnegie is Apatosaurus
I am very happy the Brontosaurus name survived, can you imagine all the Flinstones' episodes to be wrong?
As always, I appreciate the inckusion of Zdeněk Burian’s art.
For those interested in the Bone Wars, I recommend the book Dragon Teeth.
They apparently made good steaks too according to an animated paleotology documentary I saw.
I've lost my head...
...and (possibly) gained a beak.
www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/10/giant-sauropod-dinosaurs-may-have-sported-turtlelike-beaks
@@differous01 wow, neat
Could you potentially do a video on the Prince Creek Formation dinosaurs?
It'd be nice to see some of our snowy Dinos getting some love.
Brontosaurus isn’t “back.” It never left. It was very imprudent and unscientific of Elmer Riggs to try and synonymize them with inadequate information.
Thanks Ben as always very informative. Can you do a vid on the The Bone Wars or on Marsh and Cope's place in palaeontology history please.
Long live the mighty Brontosaurus.
Provider of the best burgers ever!
Ask Fred.....
Wonderful breakdown of the brontosaurus. I wonder if he likes belly rubs
Poor representation of the paleontologist though. He says that he supports eugenics as if its a bad thing, when every educated person of the day did, because its a great idea in theory. The problem is who do you put in charge of determining what genes are desirable and undesirable. While it should be obvious that the worst genetic diseases should be stamped out first, and all reputable animal breeders do this today in order to improve the species, putting governments in control made it a political rather than scientific endeavor and hurt feelings. Even a midget with webbed clubbed feet and cleft lip and a learning disability doesn't want to be told that he probably shouldn't breed. Its also not racist to scientifically study the measurable differences between the races as was done, and its only modern politics that interferes with the scientific understanding that would otherwise be common knowledge.
@@BoopSnoot Okay Nazi. That was a long winded way of saying I'm a racist who doesn't understand history. Eugenics didn't just hurt feelings. It killed people. It literally killed people. The Nazis took inspiration from our eugenics program. Jesus Christ dude. Just because "everybody believed it" (and they didn't) doesn't mean it was good!
@@theangryholmesian4556 Are you 14?
@@BoopSnoot No.
@@BoopSnoot you apparently are
I love Brontosaurus!
I thought apatosaurus with a camarasaurus would look stupid, I was wrong. That looks sick
Treu
This has become one of my favorite channels. Binge watching everything right now.
Fascinating stuff. Thank you
i have to say one thing...
sauropods look like each other very much if they are in the same genus for example brachiosaurus and giraffatitan or brontosaurus and apatosaurus
Very true. It's strange that very similar looking animals prevailed all over the world for like 150 million years (220-65 million years ago), while in the last 65 years the types of mammals that prevailed varied much more.
@@Dmdm_dm but its not weird either because take geese for example all of them are the same shape but they differ in colours and sometimes head characteristics or seagulls
Paleontologists: * sees a headless Sauropod fossil *
*Aight gimme the Camarasaurus head-*
i just realized you have a Cassowary in your header image. Cassowaries are really magnificent and need more love.
You can make a Cassowary your friend :)
I've always liked the Brontosaurus name over Apatosaurus. Happy to know it's back.
You should do a video on Torvosaurus
Hi Ben. I really like your work. I was wondering if you could make a video about best museums to visit in order to see the best fossils and dinosaur mounts. I live and Chile and have only visited de Denver Museum of Nature & Science and the Museo Municipal Carmen Funes, in rural Argentina (Plaza Huincul). I would really love to incorporate other great museums in future trips... When Covid allows.
I love that Patty from Tellus Science Museum is in the video!!! I love going there with my kids!!!!
my world is turned upside - down because of this video.
I remember Brontosaurus being such a famous dinosaur of the sauropod group when I was growing up, then out of the blue they say that it wasn't a species of dinosaur, but my favorite was Brachiosaurus...
Uh....you're thinking of the word Sauropod. Theropod means the bipedal carnivores.
@@MrKillerman47 -You're right, thanks..
Apatosaurus (/əˌpætəˈsɔːrəs/; meaning "deceptive lizard")
Brontosaurus (/ˌbrɒntəˈsɔːrəs/; meaning "thunder lizard")
The second sounds badass.
1. The word “data” is plural.
2. A fossil cannot represent an unknown species, but could represent an un-described species.
3. Excellent video, thanks.
Tim Curry released a fun song called Brontosaurus in the late 70s. On Read My Lips (album).
Pluto is a planet, and Brontosaurus its own dino.
Brontosaurus is my favorite meal
-Allosaurus
Brontosaurus and Thunder Lizard are great names, way better than Apatosaurus.
My first dinosaur! Would be lovely to have a bit more insight into differences / similarities Brontosaurus and Diplodocus. 🙂👍
I agree the AMNH and field are in identified species of apatosaurine but we’ll never know in the future about them for discoveries. This video helped me about learning about brontosaurus thanks for the info
I think it’s good that you highlighted that these experts aren’t always worth deifying
6:39 I would like to think this was due to a hypothetical reconstruction in which brontosaurus had a human nose.
I haven't seen a Sinclair gasoline station here in Florida for decades, probably since the 1970s. They were once a common sight.
Poking the internet confirms, Florida is one of 19 states without a Sinclair presence. How odd. They apparently packed their bags and left long ago, but are still found in the other 31 states. Although, half of those states claim 25 or less stations.
You got to admit, Brontosaurus is a cooler sounding name than Apatosaurus.
you should do one of these for Apatosaurus
You hear stories of some species of dinosaur being discovered and being given names of their own even though the specimen found was of an already known species but was either a juvenile, close to reaching sexual maturity or an infirm elder on its last legs of life. It would be relatively funny if 10% of such newly discovered species are scratched out of existence and relabelled as [Specimen of an already known species].
Its rather difficult to tell whether a species of dinosaur is truly a new species or is just a dinosaur that died at a specific stage of its life cycle. Not sure if every possible stage of a specific dinosaur's life has been recorded, not sure about how long each particular species of dinosaur is capable of living for.
We all need a Brontosaurus in our dinosaur past. How can you give up "Thunder Lizard"? As a child I always I always that was so cool. Hopefully the name will prevail.
Brontosaurus is back Boiiiiiii!!!!!!