Thanks for 100,000 views guys! I don't entirely agree with this video anymore, but I do appreciate the feedback I've gotten, both positive and negative. I hope you guys can get something out of this video regardless, and be willing to check out some of my newer content (which in my opinion is much better).
What kinda ruined v3 for me was the way monokuma broke his rules again in case 1.In short THEY SHOULD ALL BE DEAD!!! P.s Tsumugi Was the worst mastermind ever.
I do admit, I prefer Danganronpa V3 the best in terms of gameplay and post-game content, but in my opinion, I may like its story, but it doesn't really top it off from the Hope's Peak Academy saga
That is not the point. The point is that in a mystery-game the fun is you to solve most, if not all, of the mysteries. The last case the only thing we did was solve Rantaro's murder, after that every other mystery was solved for us.
Guilherme Gigeck That's not that different from DR1 and DR2. DR1 still has Junko spoonfeed to you the state of the outside world and DR2 has her spoonfeed you to her plan.
The ending made me feel really guilty for even liking the series. I mean I never considered how the characters would feel over me watching their friends’ deaths like a video game.
You shouldn't feel guilty, that wasn't the message the game was trying to convey. The ones under criticism were the audience, who let real people get their personalities overwritten and killed off for reality TV. And since Danganronpa is fiction in our universe, it doesn't have the same moral implications. The problem with the twist is that they do a bad job a disconnecting the audience from the player, leading to misinterpretations such as yours (hell, I felt the same way before reading interviews).
Ajuaju I think they actually wanted the player to feel bad. We, as players, are oftwn most amused by games that are brutal, and have a lot of characters dying just so. We don't even need to watch anything more than the news to be thrilled by tragic events. It's this masochistic pleasure that runs a big chunk of popculture, and culture itself since the beginning of civilization, really. I like to think that 'Team Danganronpa' just pointed at us and said "HEEEEYYY, that's what you get for wanting more, you love this series for that, too!" because they wanted to conclude the story with a blast. What do you think.
@@sebakisniesebakisnie6109 There was this interview of the danganronpa game designer and it said something like their intention for v3 was to make the player feel shuichis emotions more and feel more despair as compared to danganronpa 1 and 2 where we just sort of pitied the main characters situation. When i read that i felt more relaxed because it was normal to feel despair after playing v3 as it was the directors intention this whole time except, they took it too far imo.
The creator made a shitty ending and feel bad for those characters isn’t a good way to cover up the fact that these characters voluntared to be part of the death game, yes we the audience should feel bad for letting underaged teens join the literary Phoenix Wright hunger games but we all have to accept the fact that they decided to do so and none of this is real it’s a video game characters die with no huge implications on the real world take a game like msg 3 the boss is a character fictional and when she dies is to get the philosophers legacy to the United States and still her death has no real implications to the real world. The philosophers legacy has so much money yet America is still swimming in debt so don’t pull the we should feel bad for a character dieing and that we the viewers are disgusting for finding enjoyment in their deaths cause it’s bullshit the reason I love dagonronpa is the deaths and the characters and it having no cause to the real world, so in my opinion the creator was better off saying hate you the fan see suck for sucking up to fictional characters deaths and u are a bad person for doing so
@@dribbler456pls8 watch the prologue again, they were kidnapped, they didn't volunteer themselves. In this game everything is a lie, so the audition tapes are, likely, lies too.
I do like how in the ending Shuichi said fuck despair AND hope. That I thought was very neat and different, what I didn't like was Tsumugi talking for hours about how fake stuff was just to bring in despair, because that shit dragged on for WAY TOO LONG. But what the ending also lacked was closure, was it fake or was it not? What the actually hell would they do after they even got out of there either way? I liked Danganronpa 2 a lil more because they actually let you know all the shit was semi fake. This ending pretty much shat on people who liked the franchise and then pulled a "What do you fucking think happened" afterward.
@@ilikegoblo4665 the point it was trying to make was that the fact that fans even now still want a new killing game to happen is literally the reason why the killing games continued to happen in the first place. But then again, the audition tapes could be a fake. The ending depends on what you believe is the truth and what you believe is a lie
Answers left up to your interpretation could work, but in this case it's moreso used as an excuse to not give an actual conclusion. Instead of being smartly written, it's written in a way only "smart" people will understand.
@@lukebytes5366 i agree, Danganronpa v3's end was pretty bad though, it kinda ended with "the ending is up for interpretation" which is kinda lazy writing in my opinion, and when people try to explain what made it bad, they would either get a "you just don't get it" or the "smart people" write full paragraghs explaining what happened at the ending which no one can say is true because no one actually knows what happened. The "smart people" who thinks they fully understand the ending are just the same as the rest of us, only making theories on what happend without knowing the truth. Even if those theories are true or not, we most likely won't know. I saw some fans saying that the ending was the creator making fun of how big companies make season after season, game after game of a series that got popular for nostalgia and sales. And while i do agree with that theory, the way that the devs tried to express that message went badly. For the people who first played it, it felt like the game pulling out the middle finger to it fans/veiwers for liking the franchise, playing the games, or even spent money supporting it. The hours spent playing the games, solving the class trials, knowing the characters or even the entire damn story just seemed like all for nothing. It was just thrown in the garbage for "It was just a lie!" And a slap in the face.
My problem with the ending was that they gave us plot threads, instantly said “None of those matter bc I made them up”, and then went on a long winded explanation of what’s going on while I was still confused about a detail given earlier. I wanted to know how Kokichi knew the codes for Amami’s room/safe and wondered how the sudden reveal of Kaede’s sister would pan out (while swearing up and down it better not be the same as with Junko). But I guess that was the point? Those weird inconsistencies were to tip the player off? Tsumugi was running out of ideas or something? IDK it was very jarring when I was seriously into finally beating the mastermind. I can swallow the whole thing about the characters having been real people with goals of appearing on the show, the fact that danganronpa is a show in the world of V3 at the very least, and that Tsumugi was actually a descendant Junko. All the foreshadowing was there and made sense and would have been really cool if they had just lead up to it better? Maybe explained it better? I mean I definitely didn’t like being told I was playing the games because I wanted to see the characters fail. (Honestly give me a version of the game where kaede’s plan actually had worked as intended, and everyone made it out, i’d play post-killing game) In the end I feel as if you can choose to believe Tsumugi or see it as another lie to throw the remaining survivors off of their game. There’s so many inconsistencies with Tsumugi’s explination and we already saw multiple ways in which video or audio was changed to throw the heroes off. I feel as though any ending is plausible as the very last scene does not prove Tsumugi right or wrong. With the theme of “lies vs truth” it’s hard to trust the mastermind was actually telling the truth. Either way, this is my new favorite cast and I actually wish I could have played all the other iterations of danganronpa. I also wish Shuichi could have been an evil detective the way he supposedly wanted to be, bc he got close with lying but not enough to be evil.
This reply is three years late, but... Kokichi never knew the codes for Rantaro's room, those codes were already there from the very beginning of the killing game, and he decided to use the Horse A code to send his message.
I'm pretty much convinced this can be explained by flashlights 😂 It sucks when you can't know what was implanted in you and what was that you knew by yourself, from character's POV.
You know how people get pissy about “the whole story was a dream” trope, we don’t want to find out a story was just an elaborate ruse and nothing we did added up to anything. In terms of the game, our choices apparently had no real impact, and made it seem like a spin-off game as unposed to a main line DR game. But hey, that’s my take.
It basically is a spinoff game. The main problem with V3 is probably how it tries to market itself as the continuation of the series, when it's really not. It's not the big third entry in a trilogy, it's just an alternate reality scenario to be enjoyed on its own. It's not pointless because everything still happened and they can't pull the everyone's actually alive trick again. The characters you knew were fabricated and made up, but they still existed and interacted with each other. Essentially nothing has changed for the player who already doesn't get to experience the characters backstories, but even then it's a huge hit to immersion which is why I can understand why people would be put off even it it doesn't ultimately make a difference to your enjoyment. DR2 did so much with altering your perceptions of the characters as genocidal monsters, but even that game didn't fuck with the connection between the audience and the story.
V3's ending kinda makes me feel like the first two games didn't matter. If it was all fiction, then it just removes the weight of the first two games' events, in my opinion.
I wanted Kokichi to live to the end. To bask in despair and realise his DICE never existed. And to get a chance to play as him in the final act (like Keebo,Maki, and Himiko)
I feel like he wouldn't care all that much, though. If his goons never existed, then there's no reason to worry about what kind of "accident" they got into that the motive video mentioned. Not to mention I think he'd keep on rolling with being the Ultimate Supreme Leader instead of giving a damn about who he used to be since he seems quite content with the liar he is.
@@ghostie5580 yeah that's sad also I think it's a coincidence but k *oma* eda and kokichi *oma* And they were both the ones who annoyed the others but I like them both
Personally, I think the point of the ending is to tell us that it’s never meaningless because of how much fiction influences us. I wouldn’t be the person I am if I hadn’t met my friends through Danganronpa in 2014, or if I didn’t give the series another chance and discover that I shared a lot of self-confidence issues with Shuichi and grew alongside him to overcome them in a way. DRV3 is meant to remind us that fiction influences our reality and no matter what, the characters will always FEEL real to us because we connect to them. We feel happy when they get their moments, or we Despair when they get executed or murdered. I commend you for leaving it open to us instead of writing it off as bad, because the ending is SUPPOSED to be taken through our own personal interpretations. Another good thing to do is to play the prologue after Chapter 6. There are flashbacks to the prologue in it that may or may not be different from the actual prologue, which adds to the open endedness of the ending, and it helps make the ending feel a little bit neater and clean.
The ending kind of ruined it for me. Having to swallow the fact that the characters I felt were friends to me was all bullshit was difficult. I freaking cried at the Kaede playing piano to Shuichi scene. Now it makes me feel empty. :/
Big Seltzer Owns Secular Talk There's nothing wrong with believing a lie. All fiction are lies, deal with it. Does this mean stop caring? Hell no. These are real stories, not bullshit. Don't disrespect the people in them.
baktuspotet And don't assume I'm an idiot. I know they aren't physically or mentally real, but they represent a real idea that can't be removed. That's why people care so much about people who are fiction or whose reality is debated such as deities.
Chapter 6 was the most twisted chapter. We don't know if The tapes of Pregame Shuichi, Pregame Kaede and Pregame Kaito that Tsumugi showed are real or fake.
Perel Peck, "The Biggest, Most Awful, Most Tragic Even in Human History" WAS the whole game itself! (Spoilers for V3) With Kaede dying before we could even enjoy and savor her...... With the LONG AS HECK class trials....... With the dragged out free-time events........... Ugh...... It was awful! -_-
@@Noplayster13 I am right behind you! I fell in love with the first one, and the second one was great, and the anime was....okay! But now.....it's disgusting! The entire series has been replaced with Contempt!
I can agree with your points honestly. The first game was the best in terms of story. It was more *realistic* than the following games and had an *actual* twist ending. AI Junko in the second game kinda upset me, but when you really think about it Izuru was the true twist and mastermind and that was really nice as a twist, even if nobody died and everything we went through was for nothing. Then V3 came along. And the game as a whole had me HOOKED. I was so prepared for the new theme of truth and lies, and loved every single trial. And then they showed the flashback of Hope's Peak, and that they are hope overcoming despair. I get that with a story like this, hope and despair is inevitable, so I let it slide. And I loved Tsumugi being the mastermind. During the investigation for Chapter 6 I knew it was her IMMEDIATELY, because of Himiko in the bathroom. But after she was revealed as the mastermind, things just went bad. There was so much I wanted in the rest of the story that didn't get realized, and they really took a chance with this one. They even said something about Kaede having a twin sister or something, and I was really hoping to see that be an important piece of information, but it wasn't. But I see the ending as something you have to interpret in your own way. Tsumugi could have lied about every single thing in the trial, and everything may be fine. But for now nobody knows what the ending really meant, if Tsumugi was telling the truth about it all being fiction, or if she lied
rmythx1138 Isn't everyone from DR2 getting revived, thus making everything meaningless, a DR3 problem rather than a DR2 one? I agree that was a stupid development, but blaming DR2 for that is like blaming DR1, 2, and 3 for being pointless because it was fiction. That's a V3 plot point, you can't blame those others for that development.
I loved the game, except the ending.. I like when games and series break the 4th wall and characters acknowledge that they are in fictional world, but when it becomes the main plot point is way too absurd for myself to handle. In a way otherwise great game with amazing cast and good story was kinda ruined for me in the end. So I guess I...agree with your video? Edit: Okay, so the ending has grown on me over time and I somewhat like it now. But this was my initial reaction to it after my first playthrough.
Yeah my exact opinion. I mean I know the game is fictional but when the characters themselves know it really kills the mood for me. I don't mind if the 4th is broken for a little joke. That happens a lot in other games and I find it hilarious but when its a main plot point, I just find it ridiculous and not worth taking seriously.
I don't care, it's enigmatic and poetic. The mastermind was a twitch chat all along and it's happening right now in this UA-cam section, isn't it??! I LOVE this game's commentary.
@@vintprox "and it's happening right now in this UA-cam section, isn't it" Oh no, people debating whether the ending of a video game is good! The horror!
@@varying1740 I felt like that for so long too. Fans theories around Tsumigi actually let me at least pretend its a smarter more layered ending if it isnt the intent. Fixes some weird inconsistencies that fully rely other wise on just trusting Tsumigis words.
@@varying1740 it really isn't tho. or at least, not really more than any of the other dr games. people forget that dr1 left off on a completely ambiguous note too, with everyone not really knowing if the world had actually been destroyed or not. not only that, but at that point nothing about the apocalypse had been explained beyond "despair is contagious." mind you dr1 was not supposed to have had a sequel originally. v3's ending is just an augmented version of that. combine the fact that v3 drops major hints about being a story within a story as early as the first lines of the game, the narrative thread of "ending the killing game" given more importance than the fake overarching narrative meant to serve as a plot device, and just the whole theme of the game being lies and how the truth is in the eye of the beholder i really don't see how v3's ending just comes out of nowhere.
@@seriesofironicevents9648 okay, to come to the conclusion you did with V3 is reaaaaaaly stretching it. V3s ending doesn’t just impact V3, it basically says the other games weren’t real, either making it all pointless. And to your point with DR1, at LEAST there we know that the characters and their personalities are REAL and not just made up. And finding out that they were apart of the future foundation in UDG and DR2 was awesome. But V3 just basically kills off the entirety of both those franchises and leaves us with basically nothing. My point, is that they COULD have ended it way better than they did. I like your wishful thinking, though and how you related it to the eye of the beholder. And the point that V3s worst part is the ending isn’t an unpopular opinion, ask around the fandom and most will say that they disliked the ending.
Killing Kaede and revealing the game to be fictional just made me want to pretend V3 never existed, and the mastermind just framed Kaede like that, to hell with this crap
The ending basically invalidated the mysteries of the whole game. I really wanted to know, what happened after the Gofer project? Why were they kidnapped? What happened to Naegi and the gang?!
@onesecondmrproof6652 the ending reminded me alot of diigimon season 3 were the the first two adventure series were portrayed ad a cartoon in their world then became a card game afterwards. After a couple years I think I've come around to this games ending lol I was fucking petty as shit when I first played the game
i thought the theme that "hope and despair isn't always as concrete as black and white" was a super cool theme, but ending the game like that made me grow to hate it. while playing the game, it was so much fun, so fresh, the characters seemed good, but after the ending, i can only look back with dread.
07:26 - I couldn't agree more, honestly. I was replaying the first game not that long ago and, while the cases themselves felt a lot more basic than later games, it felt like the underlying plot was handled a *lot* better by comparison. Unlike later games, it didn't feel like they were trying to cram all of their endgame reveals into the 6th chapter for the sake of some last-minute """"epic twist"""" and even Junko was a lot more interesting as a mastermind, in contrast to how obligatory and irritating she felt in later instalments. The sad part is that, while I didn't quite tie the connection between the prologue and the game's twist in the same way that you did, I did figure for a while that the game was going to end up shooting for the meta angle (especially in regards to how weird it is that people would clamour for sequels to a series about high schoolers killing eachother) but ultimately the game's execution of it was so poor that, while I've sort of gotten over it now, it honestly did go a long way towards ruining the series for me for a short while.
Kaede and Shuichi's roles should have been switched with Shuichi being the decoy and Kaede being the true protagonist, and the ending should have worked to redefine the game's story instead of rendering the story of the whole game irreverent. Shuichi felt much more like the previous 2 protagonists compared to Kaede.
Wow this comment is pretty old, but couldn't agree more! Kaede was set up to be such a great protagonist, and I was excited to play as an actual eccentric ultimate for once! While Shuichi is much more like something we have already seen before in the previous 2 games. He doesn't even really feel like an ultimate to me tbh. He's a good detective, just not an ultimate one. If he *was* the ultimate detective, he would've investigated the girls bathroom in chapter 1 and exposed Smoogie right then and there :v Kyouko's a much better SHSL detective, I'm not even sure why the devs decided to make a repeating talent in the first place :/
AGREED! I was so sad to be duped of a unique female protagonist. And before someone says "BUT KOMARU IN UDG"! That game is widely hated by the fanbase (even though it's actually my favourite in the franchise lol), and Komaru is very similar both personality and design-wise to her brother Makoto and Hajime. Kaede would have given us something fresh and different! Hell, I would have been fine if she was still the decoy, but lasted longer (say, chapter 2 or 3). I wish we had more time with her.
The ending was actually done well but it literally made the entire game up to chapter 6 feel pointless. All the character building up to this point? Meme. All the bonding you've done with the other characters? Oops it was all fake. I'm trying really hard to actually ENJOY this ending but I honestly can't, normally you'd normally expect something rewarding after such a huge game but all we got was literally a big -Nothing you've done really matters hehe- and then they expect you to CARE about a completely new idea that they pulled out of their asses at the last minute about SAVING THE WORLD FROM THIS SHALLOW KILLIN GAME DURR. It's like playing Mario to save the princess but at the end you find out that your true purpose is to bake bread. Plot twists are good and stuff, but in my personal opinion it was done extremely badly in this case, you're just given the plot twist right at the end while getting bombared with a load of information that invalidates E V E R Y T H I N G you've thought about so far while you're trying to keep up with the FICTIONAL FICTIONAL FICTIONAL nonsense being thrown at your face. The "trial" was extremelly tedious and annoying after a point that I just wanted the game to end.
fmaster99 fmaster99 Well the meaning was left to our subjective taste. You can still comprehend the ending but it might not suit your taste. Understanding the ending doesn't mean you have to like it.
It's not like all the bonding moments and interactions they've done are all fake. They were still all real, they actually happened. What is not real is their memories from before they joined the killing game. So if they made friends along the way, they actually did make friends and it's not fake friendship. Their altered memories are not and should not be a hindrance to their friendship, which actually happened, together with all their hardships in the game.
The best way I can describe why I didn't like V3's ending is this: You can have the intention to shit on the floor. But it still doesn't make it any less unpleasant.
There are so many games that went meta/breaking the 4th wall making it not so special anymore. When I looked this game went into that direction I tilted my head, "among many choices on how to end a game, why this." Did they wanna go philosophical with this ending? Idk, it seems like a shock factor disguising itself as a plottwist. But when I think about it, this game indeed always rely on plottwist on every last chapter. But... imo, this's just too much. Besides, this fandom is known for cherishing their characters so much, so pulling this "your fav character is a fiction it's just a prankk broo" is just a big middle finger, at least for me. And please stop with the "you don't get it" card. It's pretentious and not a valid argument.
Please allow me to try to argue back (or not, I am just gonna explain something). I am one of those people who strongly supports how V3 is designed. So I do think that people who hate the ending just "don't get it", but I am gonna elaborate. I think the reveal of the game being fictional is foreshadowed from the very beginning, and through the whole game. Kokichi telling lies and characters being put in the fictional world are the same. Why did Kokichi say "If you deny all of that *just* because it's a lie... Then that means you guys are just terrible at being lied to!"? Because it's true people generally cannot live in more than one reality! All of us are bad at being lied to, even Kokichi hates so. There are people who choose to hold onto the one reality, and expect all stories and meanings built on that reality. There are also people who enjoy all layers of reality/fiction, and take in whatever it offers. So I hope that you guys who hate the ending can understand why we think it's brilliant too. So far V3 and these discussion of it really helped me broaden my mind.
Sorry I am not sure which parts of the replies are responding to me. We clearly have different mindsets and that's why I am trying to communicate. I hope you guys will give it a chance to see why the ending was worthy, and it's ok if you dislike it. So I'd really like to know which part of my comment you agree/disagree with.
My interpretation of the ending: DRV3 is set in an alternate timeline where the previous games are a fictional work that became a reality TV show. This means the Hopes Peak story was NOT meaningless (as they happened in the main DR timeline). Note: This theory is backed by precedent of DR using alternate timelines via the author's comment that the IF Timeline is equally canon to the main timeline (its narrative role was explanation of Mukoru's characterization). Tsumagi unlike Junko (who uses half truths) is a full blown liar. I believe the tapes are her lies, but the kidnappings were real. Tsumagi is intended to be a satire of the obsessive crazed fan. Via her obsessive nature, she completely misses the point entirely, especially in het rhetoric of everything was fiction and thus pointless. I didn't find the ending to be that bad given the interpretation I had.
THANK YOU Everyone here seems to forget that V3 is an AU. Even if you didn't know that, I can't see how that wouldn't cross someone's mind while watching the exact ending they're criticizing...
People get too hung up on things being "canon" or not. DRV3 is basically our reality, where we know that DR is fictional. Was the Hopes Peak story meaningless? Not more or less than ANY FICTIONAL STORY. And DRV3 is aware of this. Funny that many "fans" didn't understand this.
probably my favorite ending, tsumagi just being a weird obsessive danganronpa freak and actually makes it a real thing, and the cast not giving her any satisfaction and just ending it, no hope or despair, just end the game.
Someone pointing out that fiction is fictional as you're reading/watching/playing it is like someone whispering "He just wants your money and some legal writing on a bit of paper" in your ear when your boyfriend kneels down to propose. It takes the magic out of it. Maybe it's clever, maybe it's insightful and interesting and it makes you think, and maybe it's not a deal-breaker, but... you can't really enjoy it anymore. If the point of your story is to have people immersed in a world, and for people to empathise with the characters after 40 hours with them... don't turn round and slap them in the face with "LOL IT'S NOT REAL" at the end. Now what would have been more interesting is if the characters had turned round and appealed to *us* at the end, rather than a faceless, nameless "audience". Aren't we the audience? Isn't that the point? Or at least... couldn't that have *been* the point? Rather than just "lol it's not real"? I just didn't get what the hell they were trying to achieve with the whole thing.
You nailed my issue with the ending exactly. I *know* I'm playing a video game with fake people - you don't have to remind me of this 40 hours in. I don't need to have my world shocked by 'THEY WERE ALL FAKE,' because I *knew* they were all fake to begin with. When that happened, I first went ' oh, okay, that's fine, there's foreshadowing towards this', but they kept going on and on about how not real it was and how it was enjoyed AROUND THE WORLD and it was a very, VERY clear wink to the player that was just implemented extremely poorly. And I believe k1-bo was supposed to be a nod to that, but you're right - the appeal should have happened towards the actual player, if they wanted to do a metabreak like that. There should have been more metabreaking in this - hell, *we should have played as keebo the entire time* as the mc instead of shuichi, because that would have went along much more with the themes that he tried to get across, and have the characters give their pleas to keebo, the direct audience standin. Generally, my thoughts are 'cool idea, terrible execution' in the end.
It is real, in the V3 world, the emotions those characters had were real. Why don't people unserstand this? And so people like you have to ignore that what you're seeing is fictional to find any meaning or happiness in it?
That's how it left me feeling, but then time spent away from the game made me appreciate it. I think that's true of a lot of people. It leaves you feeling numb but then a month or so later you realise that's what they were going for and they did it well... Except for how fucking long the end goes on for and they're just saying the same thing over and over for four hours.
The game litterally tells you that it all may have been a lie, that hope's peak exists and that tsumugi based everything off reality. If you feel like it lost the magic, then you weren't paying enough attention, since no matter how many times kodaka says the ending wasn't suited for everyone, it really is if you look deep enough
I understand your reasons even trough I completely disagree. After all the WHOLE game was about truth and lies so the ending wasn't telling you "lol is not real" it was actually telling u the opposite, you already know this game wasn't real but you still enjoyed it and experienced emotion because of it, those characters had to face their truth, that the truth is a lie. Shuichi even says that their fellings are real, meaning that is not because it's fiction(lie) that it was meaningless. I would probably make an entire book if I could about why I think the plot was brilliant lol but well I can't.
Tsumugi did said that she was a copycat, so maybe she really isn't one the staff in Team Danganronpa, maybe she just lied about everything, there's an infinite amount of endings possible just because Tsumugi said that, because she was sad that she was getting executed, I believe it wasn't because Danganronpa was ending, it was because she was losing her friends and all the lies and everything.
Yeah..."Powerful"....to the point where if Joel and Ellie died or sat on their asses and did nothing...It wouldn't matter... the outcome of their journey would be the same if they never finished it...and that = zero. And before you give me the over-used "But But it's about the relationship between Joel and Ellie" excuse...To that I reply that their "bond" was already established BEFORE the winter chapter, and the game is called "The Last of Us"...not "Ellie and Me".
I'd argue that it's under-used for a reason...because it's bad writing...Making the whole journey pointless because of such a decision would mean that the outcome of it is the same as it never happening. If the whole point was Joel and Ellie relationship, then the story should have finished before the winter chapter. Also Joel was never truly compassionate in any sense of the word throughout the game...even his moment of "changing his mind about staying with Ellie" was forced and happened to quickly to have any weight to it because they didn't give him any real reason to change his mind over feelings he held for MONTHS about Ellie. "It was kind of refreshing, actually. Why should Joel care about the good of humanity at this point anyway?" -When did he EVER actually care anyway? He first did it because he wanted his guns back...and then went through with it just because Ellie wanted it (Though I'd say that's debatable, considering how she easily believed his lies about what happened at the Fireflies HQ), he never truly cared about any of the journey and if he doesn't why should the audience?
I'd like to point out that I respect you opinions first of all, but I have a few objections. 1. Betrayed by Marlene? More like he's the one who betrayed her. He wasn't supposed to get attached to Ellie and get lost for near a year...and yet still she gave him a chance to leave unscathed, heck she still tried to reason with him even when he took Ellie and was shot for it. Get the facts straight, mate. 2. And I don't see how you could be, but be my guest. I just don't think the entire humanity deserves to go extinct because of the actions of a number of selfish people in the land (And we did see good people who don't deserve having bad things happening to them). You say "humanity deserved it because they are selfish" but the selfish one here is Joel and he decided the fate of humanity based on his desires to be a father again...Now, I do think you CAN make a good story with these elements of "human selfishness" (Like the original Nier, which I believe did it alot better)...It's just that TLOU was 95% of pointless filler up to that point...and to what end? To tell us that humanity is "shitty"? It's like we know that since the opening scene...what is the new point you're making by this ending where everything is pointless? If the ending just had Joel and Ellie sitting on their asses and stop pursuing the Fireflies it wouldn't make a difference...we still get that humanity is "Selfish and killing itself"...Every chapter in the game has already shown that. 3. I wouldn't compare a meta ending that has a meta point to TLOU ending to be honest...because I'd argue that V3's ending had atleast a point to it...while like I said, TLOU ending didn't really bring anything new or meaningful (The whole selfishness of humanity argument). In the end, I also understand where you are coming from and you are right...having a "pointless" outcome can be done to enrich the story if done right...It's just that I don't think TLOU ending did that.
I was under the assumption the team behind Danganronpa was simply tired of all the fan pressure to continue the series on endlessly, so they found a way to end the series permanently, while still creating a ground breaking twist that I personally never saw coming. I went from being hyper invested in the first Danganronpa that I actually got to play myself rather than watching lets plays, and then immediately broken off. That kind of emotional shift isn't something that happens every day. Even when they were explaining what was happening, I kept waiting for it all to make sense. I loved this game from start to finish to this day. If there is one downside to the Danganronpa games, and games like Skyrim and Zelda, you can only experience it for the first time, once.
I never liked Himiko so I was annoyed that SHE of all people got to live. She was so irrelevant and annoying, she never ONCE did a real magic trick (probably because she never was the ultimate magician) but just, man. I really wish someone else other than her lived.
I didn't care either way, because I had already lost interest in the game by that point. Didn't like any of the characters who were left for the final trial. Maki was bearable (but I've seen the 'assassin with a heart of gold' trope too many times to care), the rest I found outright annoying. Couldn't care less about who lived or died, my favorite characters were long dead.
honesty, same. the thing i hate most in these games is the fact that your favorites always get killed on purpose. like, if Tadaka wanted to make a nearly perfect ending for all the games, he should have just kept mostly everyone's favorite characters alive.
i think kaito was the worst character. i think part of that is he killed my boi kokichi (i mean kokichi made him but still) and he also was the most useless character. he did nothing and always was trying to say "we're friends and that means you can't do anything bad"
I mean atleast it wasn't Junko again my lord, anyways... Your dislike seems soley based on how they're fiction and that it was a cheap way to end it, but the point of it was how fiction can make an impact. The survivors even question if Tsumugi was lying during the Trial. And seeing how the reason for this video was because you loved the characters and had it torn away with the fiction thing, really only reinforces how "fiction can make an impact". I don't know though, I just wanted Kokichi to live goddammit.
"Let's trivialize all the story and the characters. Oh, did that sap the enjoyment from you? BUT we succeeded to make a very important point - you won't believe this - A FICTION CAN MAKE AN IMPACT! WHO'D KNEW, right? BILLIONS of stories that people enjoy and getting inspired by... nah, not enough of an evidence. We had to prove it ourselves! BRILLIANT, right?!"
Thank you, you explained why V3's ending destroyed the franchise for me. "I just wanted to believe in the world. I wanted the characters to be real" "It feels like the game doesn't want me to enjoy it" "It just killed any relationship I had with the game" "The 30+ hours I spent with the characters just felt meaningless" Also, the 4th class trial...
Characters before the reveal: Loveable, eccentric people with interesting backstories and personalities trying to survive a killing game. Characters after the reveal: The only thing revealed about their backstories is that they auditioned for a reality show and had all their character traits and backstories programmed in. That shit cheapens the entire game.
I have the fondest memories form the first game as well for the same reason as you. I wish the 3rd game had something like a mystery. The 2nd game still had some unanswered questions from the first game, so it had something to work towards. There was just something missing from V3, and I thought the mastermind was rather obvious. I agree with 110% of everything you said in this video. Especially the "Atleast the Monokubs are gone".
Shinzou I personally think that V3 does still leave a bit of mystery after the ending. Tsumugi says something about being a “copycat criminal”, which is never explained and you never actually see if she was telling the truth or not. She could have easily fabricated the sign-up videos, and at the beginning, Kaede says that she was kidnapped, and how it made her remember “how rotten the world was”. That doesn’t exactly sound like the world of peace that Tsumugi described, does it?
I feel like I'm the only person who was satisfied with the ending. Yeah everything was fake, but I and the characters chose to believe in something fake. The characters are fictional, in all danagnronpa games they were fictional. I believe in the characters who lived and died in the story, wether their backstory were real or not, doesn't matter. Those fake backstory's is what drove them forwards, and those backstory's is what dictated their actions. Even though it doesn't exist, it exists to the characters. And even now, when it doesn't exist to the characters anymore, they are still their characters. Shuichi will still be a detective, maki will still be strong as fuck, himiko will still do magic and call it such. Those who died I'll continue to believe in as they were, I don't look at kaito and think of who he was before he entered the game, I think of kaito, luminary of the stars!!! And that's the kaito I know, love, and believe in as a fictional character. To me, he was a real character, maybe I've just taken a message from the game, so that's how I see it and I think that's how the characters see it. I chose to believe, and that's all there really is to it for me. That's why I was satisfied with the ending. Also himiko didn't die YAY!!!!
The twist doesn't suit Danganronpa. They should have just created a new IP if they wanted all that philosophical stuff. They killed off Kaede and Kokichi, arguably the 2 best characters in the game. I'm not gonna judge if you liked it.
Josh Abraham You can't really blame a Killing Game, for killing good characters! A real Killing Game would be kinda random, too, so as long as it make sense, you can't really blame it for a character dying
Danganronpa makes you fall in love with the characters, story, whole universe and then tears everything apart and makes you feel guilty for liking the fiction they've written
I have to admit that when I was playing through the ending the first time, my thoughts and opinions heavily reflected those expressed in this video. I felt insulted, I felt that the characters I grew to appreciate were somehow cheapened and that whatever message this game was trying to send wasn't worth shattering any suspension of disbelief the series may have had up to this point. I don't know when my mind changed, but I definitely know 'why' it did. "When Maki said she was going to sacrifice herself just now, I thought... Why? So many of our friends have sacrificed their lives? Why Maki? Why now? Why do we have to go through it again? The sorrow of losing Kaede, and Kaito... Why do we have to feel that sadness over and over and over again? Why do we have to bear that burden? Well I don't care how much the audience wants it. I'm not gonna feel that way anymore! I don't want anyone to feel that way anymore! Even if this is fiction, even if we're all fictional... the pain in my heart is real! The sadness I feel when I lose the people I love is real! I won't forgive this game that treats us like toys. And if this is what the world wants... then I reject that world! I reject the world that inflicts suffering for entertainment!" ~Shuichi Saihara, case 6 This is the point of the game. Right here. The pain and death of a fictional character is powerful enough to make you cry for them. If that isn't real, what's the point of discerning reality from fiction? A fictional character may not be real, and the stories they inhabit may not be real, but they are the lies that we tell ourselves, and thus we make them real. That's the point. The pain they feel is real because the pain 'you' feel 'for' them is also real. I hope the person who made this video, as well as those who agree with him, take time to really rethink their stance on this game. Kodaka isn't trying to insult you, or insinuate that your characters don't matter. He's doing the exact opposite. Think about it for a second, Tsumugi's perspective is the one that suggests that the characters are all fake and that none of them actually matter. She's the fucking VILLAIN! And yeah, she makes a pretty compelling case, literally wearing the skin of your favs and your waifus, but Shuichi's speech holds more depth and more meaning than her goofy cosplay antics. The pain in his heart is real, because Kodaka's pain is real, because Megumi Hayashibara's/Grant George's performance expressed that pain, and because you felt the meaning behind those words and they shook you. If not for this work of fiction, than certainly, at some point in your life, some other work of fiction must have done so, otherwise you wouldn't be nerd enough to have watched this video, let alone read my sappy youtube comment. Humanity transcends flesh and bone. I've said it multiple times across multiple websites, but I'll say it once more. Your waifu is real.
You can't build a connection over the course of several dozen hours, then shatter it, and expect it to be rebuilt within a few minutes. The effects of this ending are too far-reaching to make that work And Shuichi and Maki's cries don't even make sense, seeing how every other participant from DR3 onward(even themselves) were perfectly fine with killing other people; otherwise they never would have signed up. But, of course, to each their own.
They didn't shatter any connection with any of the characters. If, at the end of the game, they were reverted back to their original personalities, you may have had a point, but Shuichi is still Shuichi throughout the final chapter, same with the rest of the survivors. They're being told that everything that they are and believe in don't matter because their personalities were handcrafted by the antagonist. Shuichi's whole point is that because his emotions are real, he himself is real regardless of his origin. You are supposed to read that and relate it to fictional characters in general. That's the point. Whether you apply Shuichi's logic to fictional characters and come out with a different understanding of storytelling is up to you.
I don't want to be that guy but... Kodaka made Danganronpa V3 just to tell people that he was done with the series, and the ending was made especially for that reason.
I don't understand why barley anyone likes Kaito. I loved him. He always reached for the stars, which inspired me. He was very caring. He took Shuichi and lit up his world. He was a true inspiration. With all me heart, I wish he didn't die. His confidence was beautiful. His words effected me. Some people don't like him because he was a believer. What is wrong with trusting and believing in people? His personality was so wonderful. I felt heartbroken when he died. When I think of his death, I feel like I am going to cry. How he tried to help Shuichi showed how good of a person he is. I'm sorry to those who can't see this like I do. I look up to him, even if he is fiction or not. Well, that is my opinion. Kaito, Luminary of the Stars, will forever hold a place in my heart. At least he achieved his dream before he left. I love you, Kaito. 🌠 (If you don't agree, please don't tell me in a toxic way. I hope we can agree to disagree. )
Two coincidences happened while watching this: As Tsumugi said "It's Junko Enoshima!" I got an add that said "This is it. This is the moment we've been waiting for!" Also in the middle of watching this, V3 went on sale on Steam
I disagree. Heavily. Not just me, but many people as well. So me regurgitating what other people in this and other comment sections said is pointless. But... There _is_ something I wanna say. It's this: Thank you. Thank you for actually keeping an open mind and allowing people to discuss the ending and not just saying "it's bad" like it's some kinda fact.
I really really *really* did not like the survivors of V3. Himiko was semi-tolerable, Shuichi is the number 1 beta boy, and Maki had all the personality of a dish cloth. All the intriguing characters died too early.
I 100% agree with you. To be honest not liking the games ending and a part of the game is an unpopular opinion. Very few people didn't like it. That's ok. I just didn't like it at all. I post interesting immediately after chapter 1. I was extremely mad at Kaede's death. That genuinely pissed me off. However I got over it after I fell in love with Shuichi's character. I hated the fact that Tsumigi broke the rules to execute Kaede. Makes me feel a bit crappy about Kokichi. I mean his plan wouldn't have worked right? If Monokuma broke the rules before he would've done it again. Then again he might not have but I don't know. I also don't like how much Kodaka loves breaking the fourth wall. Even before v3 we all knew from DR and DR2 that he liked breaking the fourth wall as it very repetitive. There are things I do like! Personally I loved the characters of Danganronpa and felt much more connected to them than any of the other games. During the 6th chapter of V3 I just stopped caring after the whole "IT WAS ALLLLLL A LIE". I too felt like it was all meaningless after that. Maybe this is just up to personal preference. Some people enjoy the whole absurd ending and others found it to be cheap. Even though I like DR2 the most I respect the first games ending the most. Like you said it didn't have some cop out neo world program or the whole game is a TV show bullshit. It was an interesting twist with still an interesting ending that does leave it up to the imagination. (God I just full on ranted here none of this probably makes sense but I can't be bothered to check)
Tripp Dusk I I agree I kind of feel the same way as it made the backstory kind of meaningless I love story of DR1-3Anime as I cared for the characters and I cared for the hardships in their journey and the struggles and I love the characters of V3 with a passion but the ending made me personally feel like what happened before has no meaning in their world so it kinda made me sad to know that what the Hopes Peak saga characters were fighting for meant nothing. It's kinda like telling a kid that Santa's not real they'll be devastated and sad even though they know the spirit of Christmas is what he represents,while other kids will appreciate what he represented and still be happy
Hated Danganronpa V3's ending. We know the characters aren't real, we know it's all game already; but we want to believe it's at least real for the characters. Pulling the "it's fictional" card is really similar to shows that pull a "it was all a dream" ending. If done correctly it can work but a lot of the times it leaves people with disappointment. I cared for the characters not only from the past Danganronpa games and series, but also the ones in V3. And now the games is telling me nothing mattered. My only hope right now is the "multi-verse" thing they seem to reference at the end of V3, I'm hoping they maybe end up things with "V3 was fake but the rest of the games did happen in a different universe" or something. Also, having a cliff hanger ending is nothing new for the series. We had that in pretty much every game and the series to some extent (the anime was more of an open ending), but V3 just overdid it. Finishing the game leaves you with more questions than answers and I personally think it's a horrible way to end a game. And whether that was the game's purpose or not, I still don't agree with it.
LyonDRC Shuichi says that what happened in the killing game was real for them regardless of what Tsumugi said. It's like you didn't play the ending and only spoiled yourself.
While I liked the V3 cast and cared for them throughout the game; I couldn't care less about them in comparison with the past casts. Had V3 been a stand-alone game I would've been fine because, like you said, it became real for them even if it wasn't at the start (or before everything happened I guess). But no. The V3 ending not only includes the cast of that game but the whole series up to that point. Whether Shuichi feels it was real for him or not doesn't change the fact that according to the game, everything I played and experienced in Danganronpa 1, Danganronpa 2, Ultra Despair Girls, Future Arc, Despair Arc and Hope Arc might have not been relevant for anyone at all. That's why I dislike the game. And no, I played through every single game and watched the anime (except for DR1 anime). So no, I didn't just spoiled myself. Edit: Guess I should clarify what I meant before anyone decides to be nit picky about it. What I mean when I say I don't care about them in comparison to the past casts I'm referring to the ending specifically. As in, if the V3 cast's personalities are fake that'd would been fine because they "became new REAL people" by the end of the killing game.
LyonDRC LyonDRC >I cared for the cast throughout the game Then there is no reason for that to change. The ending of the game has the characters afirming their own reality and experiences regardless of their origin. >DR1, DR2 and AE weren't relevant to anyone at all 1) V3 takes place in an AU. The HPA arc ended with DR3 and Kodaka said during V3's production time that the new game would be a soft reboot taking place in a new universe, everyone assumed he was lying but he was telling the truth 2) V3's message is mainly about how fiction has an inherent value if it affects you even if it's a lie. So even if DR1, DR2 and whatever else were lies, that wouldn't change the story dealt with there or how you valued the characters.
Except he wasn't, or maybe he was, which is what I was referring when I mentioned the "V3 overdid it with the cliffhanger ending" in my original comment and why I still have hope that only V3 was fake (also something I said in my first comment). At this point, there's not much to go for except for what V3 says. And the game literally mentions Makoto as the school's headmaster, implying they're from the same universe. Not to mention Tsumugi transforms into the cast of DR1 and DR2 because she believes they'd be the characters viewers recognize the most from the past fake killing games. To me at least, it does change the story dealt. To put it this way, imagine DR1 happens the exact same way but at the start of the game they tell you everything that you're going to play it's not really happening even for the characters themselves All of it it's a show and the characters' past, personalities, dreams, etc. is all fabricated even for the game itself. And then the game continues to remind you this throughout the game, I wouldn't have cared for the characters the same way at least. Obviously the experiences I had and how much I cared for the characters, how much I related to some of them and how much I liked them is not erased or even meaningless for myself. But it is a slap to the freaking face that v3 suddenly pulls a "nothing of that actually mattered for the characters". Edit: Since you seem so adamant about me caring for the characters, I never mentioned I suddenly stopped caring for them after V3. What I do think is that the game basically punishes you for caring for them. I'm relatively new to the series but imagine people that played the first DR when it first came out and continued to care for the series just to receive a V3 ending payment. It just sucks.
LyonDRC V3 is an AU, it's not fake because it does not need the HPA universe to be relevant. Kodaka already said the HPA plot ended with DR3...that isn't difficult to understand is it? >The game literally mentions Makoto as the headmaster and Tsumugi cosplays as characters from DR1 and DR2 That's because in V3, the old DR games are just that, games. V3 happens in an alternate universe where DR began as games, like ours, but it became so popular that it became the "ultimate real fiction". They straight up said that in the last trial. And by the way, that doesn't invalidates the prior games. They just pulled a Digimon Tamers deal, if you don't know about that, Digimon Tamers was the third season of Digimon and it had the minor plot point of the prior seasons being a anime show in the TV, that didn't invalidate the prior seasons or anything btw. >V3 pulls a nothing actually mattered That's what Tsumugi tries to say and it seems that you entered in such a despair from it that you missed Shuichi's counter argument. >The game punishes you for caring. The game was meant to bring despair to the player since it is supposed to make you question your experience with the series but It is also meant to give the players a chance to break out of it through Shuichi's counter argument. I'm a relatively old in the fandom compared to you and it didn't affect me as you claim it should have.
The fact that so many people in the comments that like this game/ending are asserting that opposing opinions "just aren't getting it" is very telling of the poor execution of the ending itself (it also reveals unnecessary elitism). I don't like the ending, and believe me, I tried so hard to. As an artist and writer, I really tried (I'm still trying). But from a philosophical standpoint and the fact that I'm a person that does not like being spoon-fed the moral of the story, I just can't appreciate what this ending has done for my now-transformed perspective of this series. Some people (i.e, me) don't care for an obvious reminder of the "magical power of fiction that changes reality" within the medium (it's a natural fact for fans of the genre). The games were wacky from the start with Ultimates/SHSLs and social apocalypses, and adding a "yeah these backstories and personalities probably weren't real" can leave a bitter taste. Lastly, the type of mentality that questions others with different opinions as "uninformed" or "unintelligent" is why this ending, after all this time, remains controversial. I sincerely hope for more civil discourse.
Honestly, fom Kodaka's standpoint, it is a perfect ending. Finally ending the series on his own terms and telling a message on consumption of modern pop culture. We will never see the ending of Marvel or DC heroes because the fans always demand more of the same stories. We will never see Batman getting married or retiring because Batman fans always want him to fight crime and be miserable. DanganronpaV3 is a perfect piece of storytelling narrative that criticize this sort or never ending franchises that usually ends when they are cancelled due to low viewership rather than thought out conclusion. I hope the ending will never be diminshed by Spike Chunsoft trying to continue the series under similar name. Its the ending that many people might not like but it is also the ending that give people a reason to think about it and is surely isn't forgettable. It's basically a form of "genre reconstruction" of game overall franchises (like Finale Fantasy or Star Wars) and work in similar way as Doki Doki literature Club does with challenging the genre of Sim Dates and Undertale with JRPG's
That's interesting. I am also an artist and writer (though quite unexperienced!), but in my case this game and its ending left me thoughtful in a good sense about art and writing. I believe it depends on how much you appreciate possibilities and uncertainty. As I wrote in another reply, there are people who choose to hold onto the one reality, and expect all stories and meanings built on that reality. There are also people who enjoy all layers of reality/fiction, and take in whatever it offers. The power of fiction really isn't that magical, it just pretends to be another reality, so I'd say... why not accept it as another reality? That's what I think anyway. I am curious, what kind of work do you write? Did you like the 1st and 2nd game?
I hope I don't upset you by admitting that I already knew how Kodaka felt. Trust me, I've done more than enough research on the makings/reception of this ending (especially in my fruitless plight to change my own mind). I never suggested the ending to be "diminished" or changed or... whatever. I'm just adding to the discourse that I feel the ending, if it were executed differently, would have allowed me to enjoy it like others have. How differently, and in what way? I don't really know. I do know, however, that I had been borderline-cool with the ending/twist for a while until I outright disliked it after some time. I think it just goes back down to what others appreciate in a fictional medium over others, but that's not to say endings like this stump me or go under-appreciated from me every single time (because I know you care so much, I really, really enjoy endings that are exactly what the main character doesn't want, and NDRV3 almost did that).
In reply to +Kino I am a 2D portrait artist and photographer! My portfolio is down while I'm trying to pay a nasty medical bill right now, but here's a link to an old 2014 fanart piece I created for Star Trek: www.behance.net/gallery/15119055/Mind-Melt (I write on topics from fictional short stories to political/social commentaries, but my writing "style" is scattered and all in physical form.) In my case, I quickly got over the pseudo-impact DRV3 had on previous entries of the series (but I still think of DRV3's ending even when I replay DR1 for achievements lol). I mean, I accept the ending fairly, but that doesn't keep me from not liking it. Those two actions are easy for me to separate - it's as blasé as accepting a food allergy. I enjoyed the first game, and I was lucky enough to have that blind experience. I'm a fan of "bad endings" in a sense that the ending is unfavorable for the main protagonists. Sure, it was wacky, but like I stated in OP, the nonsense was established from the very beginning. DR2 was enjoyable through its characters, and while the ending is slightly weaker, I found the gameplay mechanics and case nuances were better-executed (except that dirty, dirty Logic Drive). My issues with DR2's ending were contained within its game and did not retroactively influence (or have the potential to do so) with the previous game. DRV3, by it's nature, was going to do that - and did. While I'm not salty about that approach at all, it amplified my dislike on top of already disliking the execution of it (the ending). But again, I'm a grown adult, so I keep my dislike to myself (OP was a primarily a criticism of the nature of many of the comments already posted). TLDR; It's okay if I don't like it. I wish I did, but I'm chill being in this spot. It doesn't affect my enjoyment of the previous titles despite it being on my mind when I play them. Ultimately, the only one who can change my mind is myself (and I think many people forget this very important human fact).
For me it was the other way around. I hated the ending initially, and only after giving it a thought and seeing people's Let's Play reactions, I figured out the very cool direction behind the game and where it parodied itself. If you want to see the essential story from point A to point Z and the closure of Hope Peak arc then you basically just need to watch Danganronpa 3 anime. V3 is basically a mini episode in another universe that copy our universe and take the Danganronpa 1-3 games and anime into it account to fool us and make an effective twist. Whether i hated the meta commentary or breaking of immersion doesn't matter when we take into account overall experience of the game and the story and the lasting impact. I can seriously say the story and ending is much more memorable than characters and story in DR1 and DR2 and especially the anime DR3
I actually didn't feel disappointed by the ending, but maybe it's just me. I think the point of it all was that even if it was a lie, it was *their* truth, they lived through those experiences and acted those personalities, thus making them "real lies" or "false truths" I guess.
@@lindsey7544 how? genuinely curious because i believe the whole "truth is in the eye of the beholder" thing was prominent in v3 since the beginning and was one of the most prominent aspects of the ending
I agree with this video and everything that's been said. As soon as the ending came on, i started to lose interest in what happened to the characters and everything started to seem fake. I would've preferred if they had just gone with a traditional well thought out ending. Also i don't get the argument "All fiction is fake, so them being selfaware doesn't really matter does it?" Imagine seeing Luke Skywalker not caring to destroy the Death Star because he knew it's all fiction anyways To me stories are ment to be kept immersive and realistic, and while Danganronpa is known to have some fairly unrealistic plots, it still works because of the great character development and long time spent in the setting. Them breaking the fourth wall just seems like throwing a great story into the trash bin and saying "Hey you cared about our characters so fiction is power" I've tried so many times to like V3's ending, and i know the majority finds it well made, but i just can't no matter how much i try. I still respect everyones opinion tho, regardless of if they like the ending or not.
The thing I don't understand is: Why was Kaede the blackened, if Tsumugi was the one who killed Rantaro? I just feel like Kaede was robbed, she even believed that she killed Rantaro even tho she didn't.
Because if Tsumugi was caught (the mastermind) everything would've ended, so she and Monokuma lied and kept Kaede as the blackened. Would've wished they added a DLC or a secret option after the game where you can accuse Tsumugi, sad that the game didn't do that
I think the game's producer thought if they give people an ending like this they'll get angry and they won't want any new killing game. To summarize, they wanted to estrange people from Danganronpa. And we can say they did it. And I'm not sure but I remember I read somewhere, they didn't want to make any new Danganronpa games, they said they want to make new types of games.
But, buuut all of your opinion seems to be born from your choice to only judge the story when it was over, and that's what's dangerous, because seems to me like a meta-defense of "I don't want to be surprised, so I will wait until Chapter 6 to eventually have the answers and then I judge everything." when this is a mystery game (the fact it's called a game it's for you to feel "Fun" or any other emotion during all of the time you're playing) where you have to think (not became insane, but be thinking) constantly and yet feels the characters' feelings at the same time. In other words, mystery can be logic ALL the time and game can be emotion ALL the time. I'm not saying you aren't thinking by yourself, but the game recalls you several times to think harder with the the twist in Chapter 1 AND with the twist about the same case (Rantaro's case) that could be suspected if we thinked about the missing Monopad or the trajetory of the shotput ball in the images. Why am I bringing this up? Because I loved the ending and the epilogue, and both made me look like the story isn't over, because there's a giant mystery that I knew it's possible to resolve (I'm making a theory), and that really makes me wonder how much it's great to see what the truths and the lies of DRV3 are by myself (by checking the prologue, for example) and this giant Mystery makes me believe there's still more story in the future. Because Kodaka wanted to finish Hope's Peak arc, why didn't he would try to finish this whole new arc? Also, Shuichi kept repeating "The story isn't over." In the end. Also the feelings from each character, specially Kaede and Shuichi, made me feel like real feelings in Chapter 1 and this chapter already made me think DRV3 beats the other DR games in the "emotion" category. Since you blindly believed that "Everything is fake because it was scripted" from Tsumugi, I can say that human feelings always are real because they are only how we react to the information we are given. Of course, these emotions are temporary and loses more of it's value when the information given was being manipulated, but that doesn't mean any of the feelings in the game were fake (except, perhaps, Tsumugi's feelings) or lies. If it isn't in that way, then obviously moral lessons in story wouldn't be popular. Of course, that means TDR were kidding with the feelings and memories from the cast and making them of toys. And that's bg many Seasons. That's why it was almost unbelievable to me to see "the cast" wanting to die (well, "forget about everything you are" seems like wanting to die for me) and being toyed around by TDR and the audience. And of course, that's why I find Shuichi wanting everybody to sacrifice theirselves to finish this monster called "killing game" so sad at the same time só noble and cool. That's why I thinked Shuichi sharing his emotions and doubts about Tsumugi's words in the epilogue are great, because it looked to me that Kodaka was saying: "Yeah, I know how you feel and I'm not making these sick and twisteds stories of spreading despair without reason anymore, so just go do the mystery-fun and your treasure box is waiting you."
And there is the mystery of the cospox. Even though Kaede"s "body" was real, the Kaeda Akamatsu character was fictional (and it was probably not her real name in the real world) so why couldn't the mastermind cosplay as her?
That's true but in that case, why did the mastermind bother "hiding" Shuichi's "true" name in that case in his video during the last trial? That's kinda odd. ^.^
You two have both good points. If you wanna know what I think about these, I wrote something about it (theory I'm slowly making): medium.com/@luizhengs_1874/good-day-for-you-5816c87e4b43
im not sure what that really changes for me, that their back stories and characters overall are fake. It doesn't make Gonta less innocent, it doesn't make kokichi less of an adorable fucker, it doesn't make Kaede less of a good person and it certainly doesn't make kaito less awesome. I think what they did with the ending, yes, seems like a cop-out but underneath everything (forgetting the previous games) it poses one of the greatest questions ever posed in a video game. Would we still be us if everything about us was a lie? What if your childhood best friend who helped you through tough things in your life wasn't real? What if the people who cared most for you didn't exist? What if the very foundation of your love was fiction? Does that make you fiction? Someone else's imagination? Your likes, dislikes, personality are all completely tailored. Even your emotions. Yes, it's frustrating that their backstories aren't real, but does that make the characters less real? If this was a game where the characters where not interesting, flat and boring then the ending would have definitely been annoying. It's because we see the hardships and the struggles in Maki and we see the growth in Himiko and Suichi that this question holds any ground at all. It's so philosophical and real and that's why I love it.
The question is great, but it was so poorly executed. Games like DDLC do a waaaaaay better job of bringing forward that sort of philosophical question.
"Junko Enoshima is *always* the mastermind.", Tsumugi Well, it seems Team Danganronpa was lazy af to make the same b... the mastermind for 53 seasons 😂
this video is filled with misinformation that completely misunderstands the entire chapter e.g. DRV3 is not fictional - that gets repeated few times and it ties to many other twists afterwards, yet this brainlet completely failed his assignment with this video 4:53 DRV3 is not only a well written ending, it's one of the best endings in video games
I wanted Kokichi to live so bad, I think V3's mistake was killing most of the cast off. The other games had at least five or six (I forget) survivers while V3, only had three survivors. I felt so much despair over Kokichi's death, I loved him so much
Yeah and he was such an interesting character I really really wanted him to live he was my favourite Also can I ask you something about the ending? I might be misunderstanding something but I really want someone to answer me. If the danaganronpa characters are fictional then tsumugi could cosplay as them right? But why in the first chapter when tsumugi wears Kaede's clothes she turned pink or whatever that was saying that she can't cosplay as *real people* so is kaede and the others fictional or not?
I’m just now discovering the details of the ending. I rage quit during trial 6 because it felt like the game was telling me I shouldn’t care about the danganronpa world.
Omg I agree so much with you Its like you read my mind or something.. this danganronpa v3 had so many potential with its character,story,tricks, and quality and then the ending just blowed up everything, it disappointed me a lot.
i'm completely on your side with this, when i saw the ending for the first time it pissed me off so much that i'm now skeptical about playing another danganronpa game in general now.
I get that the whole point of the "it's all fiction!" ending was to make the player feel despair, because there's nothing more disparaging to a player than to find out they wasted their time with a video game (or for it to just suck), but it feels like the game is talking down to the player or making fun of the fanbase for even caring about it in the first place. I know people who like the ending will say "well duh, it IS fiction, every video game and movie and story is fiction, that's the point, why get so worked up about fictional characters?" Yeah, well played Spike Chunsoft, well played. I do like the message behind the ending, it's just the way it's executed that I have a problem with. Trying to make the player feel guilty for enjoying the games, or getting invested in the characters. It feels like you're being talked down to, like "ha what an idiot for giving a crap about a fictional piece of work...and the fact you're getting worked up about it proves our point". But was that what the fanbase was asking for? An April Fool's joke ending? I still like DV3, and I even like the message and theme behind the ending, what with truth vs lies, reality vs fiction, but I don't feel like I can say DV3 is a canonical serious entry in the series. It's more like a spin off or a "what if" scenario, disguised as a true blue "threequel". I know Danganronpa was never a super serious franchise to begin with, I mean c'mon say "the biggest most horrible most awful tragedy in human history" outloud and tell me you don't snicker thinking a 10 year old wrote that. But it still had memorable likable and hateable characters you get invested in, and to be told the obvious, that they're all fictional and none of it matters as some sort of meta commentary just feels like a slap in the face. It almost feels like the creator whose name escapes me wanted to shoot Danganronpa dead in it's tracks. Imagine a future Kingdom Hearts game ending with Sora waking up in his bedroom with his mom calling him down for dinner and he's like "Sorry I overslept, I had this crazy dream about Donald and Goofy, I've been watching too many Disney movies lately". I think all Kingdom Hearts fans would quit video games forever.
MellowVGC If the she is lieing then why not resolve this in the finale instead of leaving it out in the open? Do they plan on making a sequel? I doubt it since they ruined the last game with the fourth wall preaching about how killing is bad.
V3's ending was probably my favorite. It was much more complex and left a lot more up to you. The other games ended with 'hope is better than despair lol' but V3 kept the theme of truth vs lies till the last line. The end made a lot of sense to me and I understood before they even had to explain it all haha. It provoked a lot of though on wether truth or lies or even just plain belief was better. And I like that they added the Tsumugi line at the end to make room for theories. This came so close to beating DR1 as my fav but nostalgia always wins for me lol. I loved almost every character, the gameplay, the trials, and the twists. I get why some people don't like the end but honestly it probably was the most complex and thought out endings in DR and I was glad they didn't try to fall back on 'despair ruined everything but hope saved the day'
its not complex it all. there are too many fourth wall breaking endings and the ending is comparable to the "it was all a dream" ending. boring and annoying and it gets rid of any meaning the story had.
@@voidsap except it wasn't all a dream.. everything actually happened. unless you're referring to hope's peak possibly being fake? just because there are many fourth wall breaking endings doesn't mean it's automatically not complex. in a way they broke the fourth wall without breaking it at all. the people fuelling the killing game was a fictional audience all inside DR. their memories in V3 were fake but everything actually happened. it's not much different from SDR2's matrix style "it's a game" ending which i also really enjoyed. we were playing a game which was actually about a show about a killing game. i also love how it deviated from the "hope vs despair" ending where shuichi flat out rejects both of them in hopes of leaving the audience unsatisfied. which leads me to believe that this ending was created to deflate tension, to tell you that your attachment should be to ideas and concepts via fake storytelling or Lies, rather than losing all interest because its all phony, to wrap up v3's larger themes of truth vs lies and is the truth always worth seeking out, that truth is all in the eyes of the beholder, and that when a lie is a believable lie, it becomes one's Truth, and its means of using anti-climax to portray such a message is really ambitious imo.
I personally had no problems with the ending and think V3 is the best game from the entire franchise thus far but this video was pretty interesting! However (granted I might be a little bias because V3 is my favorite video game of all time) I don't think that it really mattered at all the characters where just fictional, since in the end ever since the beginning all the danganronpa characters have been fictional and not meaning like they've always been mugi'd I mean like danganronpa is a game at the end of the day it's all fiction I don't think it should be any different for the V3 characters just because they're basically actors who were brainwashed and besides I personally think the idea of kids volunteering to kill each other for a tv show is much more interesting than Junko and her magic anime shit (I'm not a fan of DR3) Mugi was basically what I was hoping to see Junko do in DR3 manipulate people using her talent not using random effects while she murders Chiaki. However Mugi is a much weaker villain than Junko and parts of her came off as just a fangirl for her OC.
smegel limes sure, gameplay was the best but... ya... this cast... oof. so many characters were close to being great but then OH I’M KIRUMI AND HAVE TO BE PRIME MINISTER or OH I’M KIYO AND HAVE TO KILL FOR MY DEAD SISTER WHO I PROBABLY RAPED, just like fuck man they shot theirselves in the foot constantly and left me so unsatisfied after every chapter
I get what your saying and I agree with it but I enjoyed it just for how it said the fans were the reason that the killing game became a thing it made me think about what would actually happen if something like this was allowed to take place in the real world
I just wanted Rantaro and Kaede to live, they're infinitely more interesting than Shuichi or Tsumigi. Made the game after Case 1 a lot less interesting for me. Ending twist is interesting but also depressing since it was all pointless and none of the characters were what you thought they were.
I feel the exact same way. Once I found out the world was fake even in the game world...I honestly couldn't enjoy the game or characters. DR2 was one of my favorite games (I loved DR1 but 2 just topped it better for me for some reason), and the virtual world didn't bother me, as they were still the exact characters outside the program as we see in the wrap-up anime. I hate what they did, and they could've done it better if they wanted to keep the TV show aspect. Maybe Tsumugi WAS a Remnant of Despair herself, or she was so interested in the Tragedy and Hope's Peak she thought to put on a game of her own? We saw the influence powerful people can be on companies, it wouldn't have been hard for her to do it. Then she kidnapped random kids without talents and made them into Ultimates. Anything besides the "it was all fake" thing. Video games are meant to pull you into a world to the point where you want to believe they are real (to an extent) but this ending... it was like a slap to the face.
Exactly mate. They even could have made it that she was trying to make them believe that everything is fake so they would fall into despair and the final puzzle would be to find out that they are prisoners of a sick remnant.
DRv3 is the DR that disappointed me the most. First of all it's obviously because of the ending. I really didn't like it. I felt like the dev team was kicking the fans in the balls and laughed at them. The whole "It's all fake" is a plot device way too boring and convenient. You can explain ANYTHING with it. On top of that, I hated some characters, like Angie, and I loved some characters, like Gonta, but in the end it didn't matter because "it's all fake xdddd". And knowing that, I can't even just play the game again because I know the characters are fake. Then, Cases 3 and 4. Just my opinion but they felt like the worse cases ever in DR. Case 3 was so obvious. It could have been very interesting that there were two different killers. But no the 2nd murder was committed by the same murderer... On top of that I really liked the character but they decided to just make him an incestuous brother. Geez. But I guess I don't have to care since they're fake xdd. Also, the Scrum Debate was useless. "Let's decide to vote now or later, knowing that we are only sure of one of the murderers." I mean, OBVIOUSLY you should continue investigating and not vote for the first killer right now??? Anyway, about Case 4, it just felt so wrong and bullshit. I felt the game FORCED Gonta to be the culprit because he wouldn't hurt a fly by nature. Scrum Debate was the best minigame but they didn't use it to its full potentual IMO. The Hangman's Gambit was the worse thing ever. Mind Mine is the worst new minigame. Psyche Taxi should have been called Logic Drive but still was fun. Anyway it's just my opinion, you're free to have your own opinion on the game obviously.
Iceborn I feel exactly the same about chapters 3-4! They are my least favourite from the whole DR3. I thought I was the only one who took it so seriously xd
Agreed, especially with gonta's case. He's definitely not my favourite but I KNOW he wouldn't willingly kill Miu no matter how much kokichi tries to manipulate him. He definitely knew what was wrong and right in that specific situation. Sdr2 was the best in my opinion cause there was a solid cast and an ending which didn't have more plot holes than a basketball net.
i feel you guys arent seeing that there is more to this ending. do remember that the things tsumugi said are not necessarily true, and that there are many contradictions to what she said. if you replay the game youll soon see that the mystery just isnt over as there are quite a few holes in it still
Dude, that's not it, TSUMUGI says it's all fake, but the game itself does not support and say the same thing, Shuichi ends up finding meaning to their lives, it's a lie, but it's a lie that changed the world, they are not just " fake xdd" Basically, it's the exact opposite, the antagonist tells you that you are fake, and you respond with telling them that no matter how fake you are, since you changed the others outside, your life have meaning. So no, not at all, it's not "all fake" its more like "it's all fake, but it still have meaning, it's all fake, but our feelings, and what we lived is real no matter what".
There's a lot of things that bothered me from this game, but one of them was the inconsistency with Tsumugi's Ultimate She's supposed to cosplay fictional character ONLY but when we reach the ending it's revealed that everyone's part of that fiction, so, the "Cospox" shouldn't even have happened before.
Would you say that this ending was... Despair inducing? In all seriousness, I don't think you should go through the final trial and ending focusing on how you feel about the game; your supposed to put yourself in the shoes of shuichi and the others and feel what they feel. After losing hope and being destroyed by despair ( which I think being told that your whole life and everything you know was fake; on top of actually being a murder obsessed person who volunteered for this game, is one of the most despair inducing things ever) they come together and decide to live; make a life for themselves and end the game they supposedly volunteered for. That would take a lot of Hope to accomplish. And a lot of bravery. And you are supposed to empathize and feel that despair and hope with them.
When I think back about the characters and all that, I just forget about the ending, because the characters within the reality show were still great, even if they weren't "real", like every other videogame character out there.
I like to share my half of opinion to your theory. Before all that ending, There was a hint of clues to the story. At first start of the game you started of with no memory who you are beside your name with a memory of you've been kidnapped, later to get your memory back knowing your ultimate. I believe all 15 student do not have any ultimate to began with. Their ordinary student like hajime. Why? Because there was 1 cut scene about kaede wearing what seems to be like an nero project head set that they're plug in to the nero programme which explain why the entire game was "sci-fi" with addition to tsumugi's quirk of unable to cosplay real people. And also explain why the memory they've been set and given could not and never be reset. This entire series could have took place many many years after the world was recovered from despair and people most likely feel nostalgic to the situation which explain the ending " everyone wants to watch u kill each other " It is not referring to us but the world there, and could explain why there was a series till 53 killing game it become an entertainment. All because Tsumugi. A cosplayer have a power to "copycat " every talent however obliviously like she keep saying " just like the killing game " she couldn't and become a fan of izuru kamukura. There is no telling if she could also rebuild a nero programme with her team too. Plus in addition Is likely the survival couldn't escape that world probably they need to find the button to shutdown the program... Well thats what i think and more puzzle to be feed on the next maybe
If all our previous character who have died, they are considered as " Fiction " not a real human. Like us, those who died are history to us. leaving the newer generation explaining their " fake " or act of " fiction "
dude that neo program head set was the thing they used inside those fake memories to delete their memories about their ultimate talents so they could "die with everyone" on Earth instead of flying into space. At least that's what I understood about it
Can definitely see where you're coming from with the ending, had mixed opinions about it myself. But why exactly does that ruin the characters for you? Not implying you should separate the characters and the story by any means, that'd be impossible, but does the fact that the characters were fake really change anything at all? At the end of the day, this cast is actually just as fictional as the past two, no matter how many layers of fiction you go in, that's why I'm kind of confused at why people are so genuinely angry about the ending (not saying that you are, your review is pretty levelheaded.) When I look back at the game I feel as though I can still remember each event pretty fondly actually, and the fact that the characters were fake doesn't really change that. Kokichi is still an incredibly fun antagonist, Shuichi is relatable, etc. I've also seen a lot of people react as if the fact that DR1 and DR2 were fake, devalues those games as well, which doesn't exactly make much sense to me, They're still fun stories with a diverse cast, and plenty of mysteries to solve, Just like V3. And yes, while a lot of those mysteries didn't have any value at the end of the game, it's the actual impact that those mysteries leave on the characters that's interesting to see.
Nicolai Gorden it goes down to a philosophical question. I guess for me the game telling me that Kokichi’s motives were all nonexistent makes me uninterested in him as a character
but that principally ignores what the actual message is about the final trail.... that fiction can affect reality (I think that was the final truth bullet) The game wants you to know that non of this is real, that this will likely be the end depending on how much you think you value the though of sending people as real as you and me off to their death for enjoyment. But it also wraps up a very deep message that you ether missed or ignore about how art trully shapes the human heart..... to dismiss that is disingenuous.
I see what you are saying, but still... Kodaka didn't need to break the fourth wall to get his point around. Even if he didn't break the fourth wall, he was definitely close to breaking it.
switch1e "Kokichi's motives were all nonexistent" actually seems to me more of a really sad and despairing outcome than a matter of losing interest in his character, and any other characters, that is In the end, Kokichi's "I wasn't boring, right?" and his struggle to get through it all despite he knows he's not even real, gets this point across even clearer
Hey OP since you saw the twist coming from the prologue, did you notice that the killers and some victims all followed a pattern based on previous games? It hard to say that this game had the "best" cases when you catch onto it. Like for example, Kirumi and Peko are both silver haired, emotionless, and commit a murder in service of a "master" of some kind? And in their execution, they try to run and escape their punishment? Kaede and Sayaka both have talents related to music and commit a first murder. The first blackened is executed in a way mocking their talent. Gonta and Gundam both worked with animals of some kind, and in their execution they're destroyed by the very thing they loved the most. The third killer is doing it for the vein of some form of twisted love, and Korekiyo is basically a reverse of Genocider (only kills females, as opposed to only males). And both Tsumugi and Junko have talents related to some form of fashion. I've seen a lot of discussion about this and pointing it out, and the more you think about it, the worse the aftertaste of V3 becomes. It doesn't help that V3 was constantly touted as something new and 100% original by Kodaka. Tbh, I think Kodaka was just DONE. And like you, I can no longer geek out about the characters like I used to and the V3 cast is the cast I feel the least attached to. I had such high hopes for these characters and their story, which would have NO references at all to the past few games. I really wanted something brand new and, knowing it was the last, self-contained. Instead, I got the biggest disappointment I'd felt in a long time. I'm glad to finally see a video expressing someone feeling the same way. Thanks for not sucking SC's dick, OP, seriously. Good video.
To be fair, it actually kind of makes sense that V3 kind of re-uses a formula in order to switch it up. If you think about it as V3 being a game that's supposed to mimic the previous Danganronpa games, what everybody fell in love with, it kind of makes sense they'd work within that same formula range. If anything, it makes *less* sense for SDR2 to be as similarly-structured to the first game as it was. The first cases, there's always that sense of betrayal, the person you're closest to might not be who they seem. The first case it was Sayaka, the second case it was Nagito despite him not actually killing anybody, the third game, they reversed the POV and the person you were playing as turns out to be some form of unreliable narrator who killed in an attempt to stop the killing game (though she didn't actually kill him). Peko didn't try to escape her punishment, that was Monokuma controlling her. I do agree that Kirumi and Peko are *extremely* similar though, although there are notable differences. I personally really like the parallel between Kirumi and Ryoma, one having nothing to live for while the other having too much to lose. Peko never really thought that way. You're completely right about the third case, probably why the 3rd cases are consistently the worst DR cases (missed opportunities, rushed, lack of great character moments and interactions overall) You're right about Gonta and Gundham. Case 4's are always some sort of sacrificial kill, although in this case it was a unique "killing someone for their own good" "ignorance is bliss" kind of mentality Gonta had. In his mind, it was not his death that would "save" everyone, it would be his survival, and his alone. Then there's also the fact that the culprit didn't even remember which made it super unique in that regard. The last one also makes perfect sense when you think about it.
V3's ending felt like the TYBW arc of Bleach, where the author was at their wit's end with the series and just didn't want to bothered with it anymore, so they wrote it off in a way to completely disregard the previous stories without care of whether or not it was relatively cohesive. I'm also just... not a fan of the messaging behind it. The ending just feels like an edgy high schooler pulling the whole "humanity fucking sucks and you're fucking sick for enjoying things!!!!!!!!!!!" without much to counterbalance it, aside from Shuichi's lines at the very end. I totally get why people like V3, but the ending just leaves a bad taste in my mouth at the end of the day. Simply just not for me.
I really loved DRV3. I don’t really understand the complaint that the characters aren’t real within the canon so they’re hard to invest in. I mean, they’re not real anyways, the extra layer of universe between me and them didn’t affect my investment in them at all because I already knew that these weren’t real people in the back of my head. I feel like the game makes a compelling argument why that doesn’t invalidate their feelings in universe either also.
All of the characters were so insufferable I literally dropped the game at the start of the second investigation. Their personalities are just pushed way too hard to be likeable for me. In the first and second game the characters still felt believable and slowly showed their traits through time. When I play this game I feel the characters are almost fighting for attention with their one trait. "I'm Miu, I make perverted jokes constantly all the time and that's all I do!", "I'm Tenko, and men are degenerates!" etc. Even within the context of it being a tv show these characters aren't supposed to know that so it doesn't make sense for them to try to push these personality traits so hard. I lose respect for them as characters immensely because even if I think they can say some funny things I feel like they immediately follow up with the equivalent of "get it! it's because that's my whole character! Let me do it 5 more times so you understand that's who I am!" Even if the ending was terrible like the second game, I would totally be willing to overlook it if it did the characters and story right for the most part.
valid but miu's perversion is definitely not all there is to her. we see her inferiority complex, and hints of genuine cowardness throughout the way. she's one of the only characters who killed only because she was genuinely scared
I felt so unsatisfied from the ending. I went back to the ending and prologue to find any concrete evidence on what actually happened, if the characters had actually died, if the tapes were fake, etc. That's when I realized the game made it so there are so many different possibilities as to what actually happened. It fit right into the theme of the game, which wasn't just about lies, but believing in what you think is best to believe in, even if it's not the truth. When I had this realization, I felt content and came to love the ending.
I was iffy on it when they promised us a female protagonist in a main series game just to kill her off. Kaede was an incredibly refreshing protagonist and was a welcome change for the series and then we got another soft Boi self doubting all the time.... The ending I do not care for. I choose to believe that it was another lie set up by Tsumugi, because if it’s not, then what’s the point in going on with the franchise as a consumer? Like you said, it really cheapens the characters, and I have no desire to learn more about them or see their Love hotel scenes. It also retroactively cheapened the other characters for me. Like, how could they do this to my favorite characters?? Also Tsumugi was way out of character for some of her cosplays, which gives me hope that she was once again lying. I love the mystery aspect of DR, and having it all be just a fictional universe is a meta commentary that I don’t think we need. The universe is already turning against reality competition shows, you can see discourse like that everywhere now, and even in 2017. The meta analysis of the fan base made me feel like they were mocking me for enjoying the story of their games. I personally did not care for it
Please, someone make a quick stupid spoof of this. Make junko say "well, how are you going to end this killing game" Then cut back to sushi-chi looking all depressed and then he just looks at the camera, gives a big ol' smile and says "llliiiiikkeee this!" Cut to black, roll credits really fast, genius
I wish Miu used her talent more. Her talent was probably the best talent in v3, especially since she can make any invention if she thinks of it, I mean like she can literally teleport underwear. It’s kinda sad how she died, but honestly her death could have been avoided. Shuichi obviously noticed she starting acting weird, and if he or Keebo ( I think Miu is closer to Keebo than everyone else) talked to her about it, she might have not tried to murder Kokichi. Without her, they wouldn’t have passed the Death Road of Despair in chapter 5. It’s really disappointing how she died, and the only one who really noticed what she was planning, was none other than Kokichi himself. I don’t blame Kokichi for really killing her, since she kinda tried to kill him first, but I do blame him for forcing Gonta into it and manipulating him. I also wish that Miu had character development. With her personality and such, it would be cool to see her change, since you can tell she was abandoned (love hotel event) and she doesn’t really seem that bad. I personally just think she was abandoned by her friends or something, since she’s scared of betrayal which gave her a motive to commit murder, and also if she was abandoned by her parents, wouldn’t you hear her speak at least one thing about her parents? She just seems like a static or supporting character. If she was scared of betrayal tho, she could have easily made an invention to help with that, but she didn’t. I know she curses a lot and makes vulgar jokes, but honestly, if you were dragged into this situation, I’m sure some of you guys would be cursing. Her character is a bit over the top, but that’s just part of her charm. There’s so many things going on with her which makes her interesting for me, at least. She could have had a really cool story or character development, but didn’t. The writers could have done so many things better with this plot, but the plot still isn’t that bad. I feel like it’s more emotional and has a deeper meaning than v1 and v2, but it depends on the person. It really does ruin things for you when they reveal that literally everything is fake, and that even v1 was all fiction, and I really disliked how they made the audience seem that way, since we are the audience after all. In the end, I just wish they did a lot of things better, but I still think it’s nice, and honestly, I wouldn’t be able to think of something like this. I’m sorry for this long paragraph and such.
When i found out all the characters were fake it made me sad I was thinking there friendship, family and just all the characters i grew to love were fake and my whole opinion of danganronpa has changed a lot i still like it but not the way i did before. I completely agree with your opinion of the end and I know games are fiction but to know the characters in the fiction are also fiction and aren't even real in the fiction world when i talk about the characters i can't connect to them. But i wonder what there outside world personalities are like even if we like them I don't think we'll like them the same as the characters that are fake since we know them to well.
Thanks for 100,000 views guys! I don't entirely agree with this video anymore, but I do appreciate the feedback I've gotten, both positive and negative. I hope you guys can get something out of this video regardless, and be willing to check out some of my newer content (which in my opinion is much better).
Rantaro is the ultimate survivor because he is a descendant of makoto naegi the ultimate hope
switch1e I like the second game better than v3
🐱🌋🌋🌋🌋🌋🌋🌋🌋
What kinda ruined v3 for me was the way monokuma broke his rules again in case 1.In short THEY SHOULD ALL BE DEAD!!! P.s Tsumugi
Was the worst mastermind ever.
It's fine, you can change your opinions about your statement in this video since it is your video, I don't personally mind it that much
I do admit, I prefer Danganronpa V3 the best in terms of gameplay and post-game content, but in my opinion, I may like its story, but it doesn't really top it off from the Hope's Peak Academy saga
Nightmare Kagamine
TBF it's probably the first in it's arc. And already being comparable on the first part of an arc says something.
Truee
That is a story spanning mutiple media. This is just one game!
Nightmare Kagamine Yeah, I hated the ending honestly.
Comparing it to the Hope's Peak saga seemed... unfair, considering that the Hope's Peak saga has a lot more entries to fill the story.
I think the worst part of V3 was the ending being told to us instead of us discovering it
Guilherme Gigeck how else would you find out about it?
That is not the point. The point is that in a mystery-game the fun is you to solve most, if not all, of the mysteries. The last case the only thing we did was solve Rantaro's murder, after that every other mystery was solved for us.
Guilherme Gigeck
Not exactly, you still get to disclose that the flashback lights were fake.
Still just the tip of the iceberg
Guilherme Gigeck
That's not that different from DR1 and DR2. DR1 still has Junko spoonfeed to you the state of the outside world and DR2 has her spoonfeed you to her plan.
THEY KILLED KIIBO THATS WHAT THEY DID WRONG
K1-B0
Green Pine *cries*
And Gonta.
Don't forget Gonta.
I AGREE WITH THAT
-Shuichi Saihara
Thomas Edison yes :(
The ending made me feel really guilty for even liking the series. I mean I never considered how the characters would feel over me watching their friends’ deaths like a video game.
You shouldn't feel guilty, that wasn't the message the game was trying to convey. The ones under criticism were the audience, who let real people get their personalities overwritten and killed off for reality TV. And since Danganronpa is fiction in our universe, it doesn't have the same moral implications. The problem with the twist is that they do a bad job a disconnecting the audience from the player, leading to misinterpretations such as yours (hell, I felt the same way before reading interviews).
Ajuaju I think they actually wanted the player to feel bad. We, as players, are oftwn most amused by games that are brutal, and have a lot of characters dying just so. We don't even need to watch anything more than the news to be thrilled by tragic events. It's this masochistic pleasure that runs a big chunk of popculture, and culture itself since the beginning of civilization, really. I like to think that 'Team Danganronpa' just pointed at us and said "HEEEEYYY, that's what you get for wanting more, you love this series for that, too!" because they wanted to conclude the story with a blast.
What do you think.
@@sebakisniesebakisnie6109 There was this interview of the danganronpa game designer and it said something like their intention for v3 was to make the player feel shuichis emotions more and feel more despair as compared to danganronpa 1 and 2 where we just sort of pitied the main characters situation. When i read that i felt more relaxed because it was normal to feel despair after playing v3 as it was the directors intention this whole time except, they took it too far imo.
The creator made a shitty ending and feel bad for those characters isn’t a good way to cover up the fact that these characters voluntared to be part of the death game, yes we the audience should feel bad for letting underaged teens join the literary Phoenix Wright hunger games but we all have to accept the fact that they decided to do so and none of this is real it’s a video game characters die with no huge implications on the real world take a game like msg 3 the boss is a character fictional and when she dies is to get the philosophers legacy to the United States and still her death has no real implications to the real world. The philosophers legacy has so much money yet America is still swimming in debt so don’t pull the we should feel bad for a character dieing and that we the viewers are disgusting for finding enjoyment in their deaths cause it’s bullshit the reason I love dagonronpa is the deaths and the characters and it having no cause to the real world, so in my opinion the creator was better off saying hate you the fan see suck for sucking up to fictional characters deaths and u are a bad person for doing so
@@dribbler456pls8 watch the prologue again, they were kidnapped, they didn't volunteer themselves. In this game everything is a lie, so the audition tapes are, likely, lies too.
I do like how in the ending Shuichi said fuck despair AND hope. That I thought was very neat and different, what I didn't like was Tsumugi talking for hours about how fake stuff was just to bring in despair, because that shit dragged on for WAY TOO LONG. But what the ending also lacked was closure, was it fake or was it not? What the actually hell would they do after they even got out of there either way? I liked Danganronpa 2 a lil more because they actually let you know all the shit was semi fake. This ending pretty much shat on people who liked the franchise and then pulled a "What do you fucking think happened" afterward.
@@TheGreatMeme Poor girl didn't deserve that, unless a future game proves otherwise
Yeah I don’t get it, did they think that them shitting on their fans in a game they’ve been wanting for ages was cool?
@@ilikegoblo4665 the point it was trying to make was that the fact that fans even now still want a new killing game to happen is literally the reason why the killing games continued to happen in the first place.
But then again, the audition tapes could be a fake. The ending depends on what you believe is the truth and what you believe is a lie
Answers left up to your interpretation could work, but in this case it's moreso used as an excuse to not give an actual conclusion. Instead of being smartly written, it's written in a way only "smart" people will understand.
@@lukebytes5366 i agree, Danganronpa v3's end was pretty bad though, it kinda ended with "the ending is up for interpretation" which is kinda lazy writing in my opinion, and when people try to explain what made it bad, they would either get a "you just don't get it" or the "smart people" write full paragraghs explaining what happened at the ending which no one can say is true because no one actually knows what happened.
The "smart people" who thinks they fully understand the ending are just the same as the rest of us, only making theories on what happend without knowing the truth. Even if those theories are true or not, we most likely won't know.
I saw some fans saying that the ending was the creator making fun of how big companies make season after season, game after game of a series that got popular for nostalgia and sales. And while i do agree with that theory, the way that the devs tried to express that message went badly. For the people who first played it, it felt like the game pulling out the middle finger to it fans/veiwers for liking the franchise, playing the games, or even spent money supporting it. The hours spent playing the games, solving the class trials, knowing the characters or even the entire damn story just seemed like all for nothing. It was just thrown in the garbage for "It was just a lie!" And a slap in the face.
the worst thing danganronpa v3 did is killing gonta
Agreed.
I still get flashbacks from chapter 4.
the point is to drop us all in despair :D and that's one of the easiest ways.
It was one of the best thing it could do, imo! It managed to make me cry and if a trial in DR can make me cry, then it's a success
Worst thing it did was bring up Chiaki memories in the cosplay part of the trial 😭
daw... Yes Chiaki was a very sweet girl. no matter what her existance even is.
My problem with the ending was that they gave us plot threads, instantly said “None of those matter bc I made them up”, and then went on a long winded explanation of what’s going on while I was still confused about a detail given earlier. I wanted to know how Kokichi knew the codes for Amami’s room/safe and wondered how the sudden reveal of Kaede’s sister would pan out (while swearing up and down it better not be the same as with Junko). But I guess that was the point? Those weird inconsistencies were to tip the player off? Tsumugi was running out of ideas or something? IDK it was very jarring when I was seriously into finally beating the mastermind.
I can swallow the whole thing about the characters having been real people with goals of appearing on the show, the fact that danganronpa is a show in the world of V3 at the very least, and that Tsumugi was actually a descendant Junko. All the foreshadowing was there and made sense and would have been really cool if they had just lead up to it better? Maybe explained it better? I mean I definitely didn’t like being told I was playing the games because I wanted to see the characters fail. (Honestly give me a version of the game where kaede’s plan actually had worked as intended, and everyone made it out, i’d play post-killing game)
In the end I feel as if you can choose to believe Tsumugi or see it as another lie to throw the remaining survivors off of their game. There’s so many inconsistencies with Tsumugi’s explination and we already saw multiple ways in which video or audio was changed to throw the heroes off. I feel as though any ending is plausible as the very last scene does not prove Tsumugi right or wrong. With the theme of “lies vs truth” it’s hard to trust the mastermind was actually telling the truth.
Either way, this is my new favorite cast and I actually wish I could have played all the other iterations of danganronpa. I also wish Shuichi could have been an evil detective the way he supposedly wanted to be, bc he got close with lying but not enough to be evil.
This reply is three years late, but...
Kokichi never knew the codes for Rantaro's room, those codes were already there from the very beginning of the killing game, and he decided to use the Horse A code to send his message.
I'm pretty much convinced this can be explained by flashlights 😂 It sucks when you can't know what was implanted in you and what was that you knew by yourself, from character's POV.
You know how people get pissy about “the whole story was a dream” trope, we don’t want to find out a story was just an elaborate ruse and nothing we did added up to anything.
In terms of the game, our choices apparently had no real impact, and made it seem like a spin-off game as unposed to a main line DR game.
But hey, that’s my take.
It basically is a spinoff game. The main problem with V3 is probably how it tries to market itself as the continuation of the series, when it's really not. It's not the big third entry in a trilogy, it's just an alternate reality scenario to be enjoyed on its own. It's not pointless because everything still happened and they can't pull the everyone's actually alive trick again. The characters you knew were fabricated and made up, but they still existed and interacted with each other. Essentially nothing has changed for the player who already doesn't get to experience the characters backstories, but even then it's a huge hit to immersion which is why I can understand why people would be put off even it it doesn't ultimately make a difference to your enjoyment. DR2 did so much with altering your perceptions of the characters as genocidal monsters, but even that game didn't fuck with the connection between the audience and the story.
V3's ending kinda makes me feel like the first two games didn't matter. If it was all fiction, then it just removes the weight of the first two games' events, in my opinion.
v3 is its own canon
I want it to be non-canon, but I don't want Kokichi to be non-canon. The grief after V3 chapter 6 was worse than any character death...
@@jojomicheldu59 they did a great job then.
I wanted Kokichi to live to the end. To bask in despair and realise his DICE never existed.
And to get a chance to play as him in the final act (like Keebo,Maki, and Himiko)
yes oh my god my boy gets the recognition he deserves 😤
I feel like he wouldn't care all that much, though. If his goons never existed, then there's no reason to worry about what kind of "accident" they got into that the motive video mentioned. Not to mention I think he'd keep on rolling with being the Ultimate Supreme Leader instead of giving a damn about who he used to be since he seems quite content with the liar he is.
nah he was a komaeda therefore destined to die in chapter 5
@@ghostie5580 yeah that's sad also I think it's a coincidence but k *oma* eda and kokichi *oma*
And they were both the ones who annoyed the others but I like them both
That would be so sad wtf
Personally, I think the point of the ending is to tell us that it’s never meaningless because of how much fiction influences us. I wouldn’t be the person I am if I hadn’t met my friends through Danganronpa in 2014, or if I didn’t give the series another chance and discover that I shared a lot of self-confidence issues with Shuichi and grew alongside him to overcome them in a way. DRV3 is meant to remind us that fiction influences our reality and no matter what, the characters will always FEEL real to us because we connect to them. We feel happy when they get their moments, or we Despair when they get executed or murdered.
I commend you for leaving it open to us instead of writing it off as bad, because the ending is SUPPOSED to be taken through our own personal interpretations.
Another good thing to do is to play the prologue after Chapter 6. There are flashbacks to the prologue in it that may or may not be different from the actual prologue, which adds to the open endedness of the ending, and it helps make the ending feel a little bit neater and clean.
This is the best comment here in this section lol
To all of the people saying they feel empty now that the moments were fake and lies
Kokichi would be deceived on you guys
True that.
The ending kind of ruined it for me. Having to swallow the fact that the characters I felt were friends to me was all bullshit was difficult. I freaking cried at the Kaede playing piano to Shuichi scene. Now it makes me feel empty. :/
Big Seltzer Owns Secular Talk There's nothing wrong with believing a lie. All fiction are lies, deal with it. Does this mean stop caring? Hell no. These are real stories, not bullshit. Don't disrespect the people in them.
Disrespect the people in them? Dude cmon its fantasy, these are not ''real'' stories.
baktuspotet Um? Yes there are? We all live lies so what makes them different from us?
baktuspotet And don't assume I'm an idiot. I know they aren't physically or mentally real, but they represent a real idea that can't be removed. That's why people care so much about people who are fiction or whose reality is debated such as deities.
Kaede did nothing wrong
Pretty sure the real "The Biggest, Most Awful, Most Tragic Event in Human History" was chapter six of V3.
Chapter 6 was the most twisted chapter. We don't know if The tapes of Pregame Shuichi, Pregame Kaede and Pregame Kaito that Tsumugi showed are real or fake.
Perel Peck no the whole game
Perel Peck, "The Biggest, Most Awful, Most Tragic Even in Human History" WAS the whole game itself!
(Spoilers for V3)
With Kaede dying before we could even enjoy and savor her......
With the LONG AS HECK class trials.......
With the dragged out free-time events...........
Ugh......
It was awful! -_-
Seriously, I loved the series and now it’s being replaced with... contempt.
@@Noplayster13 I am right behind you! I fell in love with the first one, and the second one was great, and the anime was....okay! But now.....it's disgusting! The entire series has been replaced with Contempt!
I just wanted Kaede to live
Corgi Jones and Miu
And I just wanted Kokichi to live
Rin so did i
Rin Same
Corgi Jones and Gonta
I can agree with your points honestly. The first game was the best in terms of story. It was more *realistic* than the following games and had an *actual* twist ending. AI Junko in the second game kinda upset me, but when you really think about it Izuru was the true twist and mastermind and that was really nice as a twist, even if nobody died and everything we went through was for nothing.
Then V3 came along. And the game as a whole had me HOOKED. I was so prepared for the new theme of truth and lies, and loved every single trial. And then they showed the flashback of Hope's Peak, and that they are hope overcoming despair. I get that with a story like this, hope and despair is inevitable, so I let it slide. And I loved Tsumugi being the mastermind. During the investigation for Chapter 6 I knew it was her IMMEDIATELY, because of Himiko in the bathroom. But after she was revealed as the mastermind, things just went bad. There was so much I wanted in the rest of the story that didn't get realized, and they really took a chance with this one. They even said something about Kaede having a twin sister or something, and I was really hoping to see that be an important piece of information, but it wasn't. But I see the ending as something you have to interpret in your own way. Tsumugi could have lied about every single thing in the trial, and everything may be fine. But for now nobody knows what the ending really meant, if Tsumugi was telling the truth about it all being fiction, or if she lied
rmythx1138 Isn't everyone from DR2 getting revived, thus making everything meaningless, a DR3 problem rather than a DR2 one? I agree that was a stupid development, but blaming DR2 for that is like blaming DR1, 2, and 3 for being pointless because it was fiction. That's a V3 plot point, you can't blame those others for that development.
@@megaultrasonic I think the difference was was that it was hinted at in DR2 that everyone was gonna come back.
I loved the game, except the ending.. I like when games and series break the 4th wall and characters acknowledge that they are in fictional world, but when it becomes the main plot point is way too absurd for myself to handle. In a way otherwise great game with amazing cast and good story was kinda ruined for me in the end. So I guess I...agree with your video?
Edit: Okay, so the ending has grown on me over time and I somewhat like it now. But this was my initial reaction to it after my first playthrough.
Yeah my exact opinion. I mean I know the game is fictional but when the characters themselves know it really kills the mood for me. I don't mind if the 4th is broken for a little joke. That happens a lot in other games and I find it hilarious but when its a main plot point, I just find it ridiculous and not worth taking seriously.
There was no 4th wall broken. The whole point of the ending went over your head.
Team Danganronpa literally showed us the middle finger with this ending.
I don't care, it's enigmatic and poetic. The mastermind was a twitch chat all along and it's happening right now in this UA-cam section, isn't it??! I LOVE this game's commentary.
@@vintprox "and it's happening right now in this UA-cam section, isn't it" Oh no, people debating whether the ending of a video game is good! The horror!
To me the ending of V3 was like reading a story that ends with "and then she woke up," instead of actually writing an ending.
Its not really like that at all
@@sffhhh it is, tho
@@varying1740 I felt like that for so long too. Fans theories around Tsumigi actually let me at least pretend its a smarter more layered ending if it isnt the intent. Fixes some weird inconsistencies that fully rely other wise on just trusting Tsumigis words.
@@varying1740 it really isn't tho. or at least, not really more than any of the other dr games.
people forget that dr1 left off on a completely ambiguous note too, with everyone not really knowing if the world had actually been destroyed or not. not only that, but at that point nothing about the apocalypse had been explained beyond "despair is contagious." mind you dr1 was not supposed to have had a sequel originally.
v3's ending is just an augmented version of that. combine the fact that v3 drops major hints about being a story within a story as early as the first lines of the game, the narrative thread of "ending the killing game" given more importance than the fake overarching narrative meant to serve as a plot device, and just the whole theme of the game being lies and how the truth is in the eye of the beholder i really don't see how v3's ending just comes out of nowhere.
@@seriesofironicevents9648 okay, to come to the conclusion you did with V3 is reaaaaaaly stretching it. V3s ending doesn’t just impact V3, it basically says the other games weren’t real, either making it all pointless.
And to your point with DR1, at LEAST there we know that the characters and their personalities are REAL and not just made up. And finding out that they were apart of the future foundation in UDG and DR2 was awesome. But V3 just basically kills off the entirety of both those franchises and leaves us with basically nothing.
My point, is that they COULD have ended it way better than they did. I like your wishful thinking, though and how you related it to the eye of the beholder. And the point that V3s worst part is the ending isn’t an unpopular opinion, ask around the fandom and most will say that they disliked the ending.
Killing Kaede and revealing the game to be fictional just made me want to pretend V3 never existed, and the mastermind just framed Kaede like that, to hell with this crap
Killing Kaede was the beggining of the disaster.
I liked the plottwist of Kaede's dead, but the mastermind actually being the killer was just really meh and stupid
just like chiaki Afther the anime started we finaly knew the First class of dissapir exit
You get it right? The truth you were all after.
The thing you wanted soooo badly! A truth without any lies!
Yeah but that was a really good plot twist . That was really cool
The ending basically invalidated the mysteries of the whole game. I really wanted to know, what happened after the Gofer project? Why were they kidnapped? What happened to Naegi and the gang?!
I think they died a long time ago maybe 100 years after the end of hope's peak saga since v3 cast traveled in time
@@lol_editz69naegi and gang arr purely fictional characters
If you think it being fiction is meaningless then you don't get the point of the game.
Naegi and the gang are in a game inside the world drv3 just like they are IRL.
@onesecondmrproof6652 the ending reminded me alot of diigimon season 3 were the the first two adventure series were portrayed ad a cartoon in their world then became a card game afterwards. After a couple years I think I've come around to this games ending lol I was fucking petty as shit when I first played the game
i thought the theme that "hope and despair isn't always as concrete as black and white" was a super cool theme, but ending the game like that made me grow to hate it. while playing the game, it was so much fun, so fresh, the characters seemed good, but after the ending, i can only look back with dread.
07:26 - I couldn't agree more, honestly. I was replaying the first game not that long ago and, while the cases themselves felt a lot more basic than later games, it felt like the underlying plot was handled a *lot* better by comparison. Unlike later games, it didn't feel like they were trying to cram all of their endgame reveals into the 6th chapter for the sake of some last-minute """"epic twist"""" and even Junko was a lot more interesting as a mastermind, in contrast to how obligatory and irritating she felt in later instalments.
The sad part is that, while I didn't quite tie the connection between the prologue and the game's twist in the same way that you did, I did figure for a while that the game was going to end up shooting for the meta angle (especially in regards to how weird it is that people would clamour for sequels to a series about high schoolers killing eachother) but ultimately the game's execution of it was so poor that, while I've sort of gotten over it now, it honestly did go a long way towards ruining the series for me for a short while.
Kaede and Shuichi's roles should have been switched with Shuichi being the decoy and Kaede being the true protagonist, and the ending should have worked to redefine the game's story instead of rendering the story of the whole game irreverent. Shuichi felt much more like the previous 2 protagonists compared to Kaede.
Wow this comment is pretty old, but couldn't agree more! Kaede was set up to be such a great protagonist, and I was excited to play as an actual eccentric ultimate for once! While Shuichi is much more like something we have already seen before in the previous 2 games. He doesn't even really feel like an ultimate to me tbh. He's a good detective, just not an ultimate one. If he *was* the ultimate detective, he would've investigated the girls bathroom in chapter 1 and exposed Smoogie right then and there :v Kyouko's a much better SHSL detective, I'm not even sure why the devs decided to make a repeating talent in the first place :/
AGREED! I was so sad to be duped of a unique female protagonist. And before someone says "BUT KOMARU IN UDG"! That game is widely hated by the fanbase (even though it's actually my favourite in the franchise lol), and Komaru is very similar both personality and design-wise to her brother Makoto and Hajime. Kaede would have given us something fresh and different! Hell, I would have been fine if she was still the decoy, but lasted longer (say, chapter 2 or 3). I wish we had more time with her.
The ending was actually done well but it literally made the entire game up to chapter 6 feel pointless. All the character building up to this point? Meme. All the bonding you've done with the other characters? Oops it was all fake. I'm trying really hard to actually ENJOY this ending but I honestly can't, normally you'd normally expect something rewarding after such a huge game but all we got was literally a big -Nothing you've done really matters hehe- and then they expect you to CARE about a completely new idea that they pulled out of their asses at the last minute about SAVING THE WORLD FROM THIS SHALLOW KILLIN GAME DURR. It's like playing Mario to save the princess but at the end you find out that your true purpose is to bake bread. Plot twists are good and stuff, but in my personal opinion it was done extremely badly in this case, you're just given the plot twist right at the end while getting bombared with a load of information that invalidates E V E R Y T H I N G you've thought about so far while you're trying to keep up with the FICTIONAL FICTIONAL FICTIONAL nonsense being thrown at your face. The "trial" was extremelly tedious and annoying after a point that I just wanted the game to end.
Yloire
If you think that the message invalidated something you certainly didn't get the actual meaning of the message
fmaster99 fmaster99 Well the meaning was left to our subjective taste. You can still comprehend the ending but it might not suit your taste. Understanding the ending doesn't mean you have to like it.
Yloire THANK YOU!! This is EXACTLY how my experience with this trial went down and is EXACTLY my opinions on the whole thing.
Life is a bitch, isn't it? That's what Danganronpa taught me.
It's not like all the bonding moments and interactions they've done are all fake. They were still all real, they actually happened. What is not real is their memories from before they joined the killing game. So if they made friends along the way, they actually did make friends and it's not fake friendship. Their altered memories are not and should not be a hindrance to their friendship, which actually happened, together with all their hardships in the game.
The best way I can describe why I didn't like V3's ending is this:
You can have the intention to shit on the floor. But it still doesn't make it any less unpleasant.
There are so many games that went meta/breaking the 4th wall making it not so special anymore. When I looked this game went into that direction I tilted my head, "among many choices on how to end a game, why this."
Did they wanna go philosophical with this ending? Idk, it seems like a shock factor disguising itself as a plottwist. But when I think about it, this game indeed always rely on plottwist on every last chapter. But... imo, this's just too much.
Besides, this fandom is known for cherishing their characters so much, so pulling this "your fav character is a fiction it's just a prankk broo" is just a big middle finger, at least for me.
And please stop with the "you don't get it" card. It's pretentious and not a valid argument.
this
Please allow me to try to argue back (or not, I am just gonna explain something).
I am one of those people who strongly supports how V3 is designed. So I do think that people who hate the ending just "don't get it", but I am gonna elaborate.
I think the reveal of the game being fictional is foreshadowed from the very beginning, and through the whole game. Kokichi telling lies and characters being put in the fictional world are the same. Why did Kokichi say "If you deny all of that *just* because it's a lie... Then that means you guys are just terrible at being lied to!"? Because it's true people generally cannot live in more than one reality! All of us are bad at being lied to, even Kokichi hates so. There are people who choose to hold onto the one reality, and expect all stories and meanings built on that reality. There are also people who enjoy all layers of reality/fiction, and take in whatever it offers.
So I hope that you guys who hate the ending can understand why we think it's brilliant too. So far V3 and these discussion of it really helped me broaden my mind.
People like you having the reactions like this is exactly what the final trial was mocking. Kind of interesting once you think about it, really.
Epic commentary, my man. Perhaps it was an attempt to shield legitimate criticism of a half-assed ineffective conclusion?
Sorry I am not sure which parts of the replies are responding to me.
We clearly have different mindsets and that's why I am trying to communicate. I hope you guys will give it a chance to see why the ending was worthy, and it's ok if you dislike it. So I'd really like to know which part of my comment you agree/disagree with.
My interpretation of the ending:
DRV3 is set in an alternate timeline where the previous games are a fictional work that became a reality TV show. This means the Hopes Peak story was NOT meaningless (as they happened in the main DR timeline).
Note: This theory is backed by precedent of DR using alternate timelines via the author's comment that the IF Timeline is equally canon to the main timeline (its narrative role was explanation of Mukoru's characterization).
Tsumagi unlike Junko (who uses half truths) is a full blown liar. I believe the tapes are her lies, but the kidnappings were real.
Tsumagi is intended to be a satire of the obsessive crazed fan. Via her obsessive nature, she completely misses the point entirely, especially in het rhetoric of everything was fiction and thus pointless.
I didn't find the ending to be that bad given the interpretation I had.
thanks for fixing this i rlly apreciate your comment and this comment is underrated
THANK YOU
Everyone here seems to forget that V3 is an AU. Even if you didn't know that, I can't see how that wouldn't cross someone's mind while watching the exact ending they're criticizing...
@@BeeLy1011 Even if it's an AU, the game destroys its own story and building.
People get too hung up on things being "canon" or not. DRV3 is basically our reality, where we know that DR is fictional. Was the Hopes Peak story meaningless? Not more or less than ANY FICTIONAL STORY. And DRV3 is aware of this. Funny that many "fans" didn't understand this.
probably my favorite ending, tsumagi just being a weird obsessive danganronpa freak and actually makes it a real thing, and the cast not giving her any satisfaction and just ending it, no hope or despair, just end the game.
Someone pointing out that fiction is fictional as you're reading/watching/playing it is like someone whispering "He just wants your money and some legal writing on a bit of paper" in your ear when your boyfriend kneels down to propose. It takes the magic out of it. Maybe it's clever, maybe it's insightful and interesting and it makes you think, and maybe it's not a deal-breaker, but... you can't really enjoy it anymore.
If the point of your story is to have people immersed in a world, and for people to empathise with the characters after 40 hours with them... don't turn round and slap them in the face with "LOL IT'S NOT REAL" at the end.
Now what would have been more interesting is if the characters had turned round and appealed to *us* at the end, rather than a faceless, nameless "audience". Aren't we the audience? Isn't that the point? Or at least... couldn't that have *been* the point? Rather than just "lol it's not real"? I just didn't get what the hell they were trying to achieve with the whole thing.
You nailed my issue with the ending exactly. I *know* I'm playing a video game with fake people - you don't have to remind me of this 40 hours in. I don't need to have my world shocked by 'THEY WERE ALL FAKE,' because I *knew* they were all fake to begin with. When that happened, I first went ' oh, okay, that's fine, there's foreshadowing towards this', but they kept going on and on about how not real it was and how it was enjoyed AROUND THE WORLD and it was a very, VERY clear wink to the player that was just implemented extremely poorly.
And I believe k1-bo was supposed to be a nod to that, but you're right - the appeal should have happened towards the actual player, if they wanted to do a metabreak like that. There should have been more metabreaking in this - hell, *we should have played as keebo the entire time* as the mc instead of shuichi, because that would have went along much more with the themes that he tried to get across, and have the characters give their pleas to keebo, the direct audience standin.
Generally, my thoughts are 'cool idea, terrible execution' in the end.
It is real, in the V3 world, the emotions those characters had were real. Why don't people unserstand this? And so people like you have to ignore that what you're seeing is fictional to find any meaning or happiness in it?
That's how it left me feeling, but then time spent away from the game made me appreciate it. I think that's true of a lot of people. It leaves you feeling numb but then a month or so later you realise that's what they were going for and they did it well... Except for how fucking long the end goes on for and they're just saying the same thing over and over for four hours.
The game litterally tells you that it all may have been a lie, that hope's peak exists and that tsumugi based everything off reality. If you feel like it lost the magic, then you weren't paying enough attention, since no matter how many times kodaka says the ending wasn't suited for everyone, it really is if you look deep enough
I understand your reasons even trough I completely disagree. After all the WHOLE game was about truth and lies so the ending wasn't telling you "lol is not real" it was actually telling u the opposite, you already know this game wasn't real but you still enjoyed it and experienced emotion because of it, those characters had to face their truth, that the truth is a lie. Shuichi even says that their fellings are real, meaning that is not because it's fiction(lie) that it was meaningless. I would probably make an entire book if I could about why I think the plot was brilliant lol but well I can't.
Tsumugi did said that she was a copycat, so maybe she really isn't one the staff in Team Danganronpa, maybe she just lied about everything, there's an infinite amount of endings possible just because Tsumugi said that, because she was sad that she was getting executed, I believe it wasn't because Danganronpa was ending, it was because she was losing her friends and all the lies and everything.
Hanakko Chan Im pretty sure she was sad becouse everyone refused to vote, not becouse she was being executed
Well you don't know, nor anyone knows. Dangaronpa ending and everyone refusing to vote is the same thing.
I hated the ending, it made me feel everything was pointless
So kinda like the ending of The Last of Us? XP
Yeah..."Powerful"....to the point where if Joel and Ellie died or sat on their asses and did nothing...It wouldn't matter... the outcome of their journey would be the same if they never finished it...and that = zero. And before you give me the over-used "But But it's about the relationship between Joel and Ellie" excuse...To that I reply that their "bond" was already established BEFORE the winter chapter, and the game is called "The Last of Us"...not "Ellie and Me".
Yeah that's the point
I'd argue that it's under-used for a reason...because it's bad writing...Making the whole journey pointless because of such a decision would mean that the outcome of it is the same as it never happening. If the whole point was Joel and Ellie relationship, then the story should have finished before the winter chapter.
Also Joel was never truly compassionate in any sense of the word throughout the game...even his moment of "changing his mind about staying with Ellie" was forced and happened to quickly to have any weight to it because they didn't give him any real reason to change his mind over feelings he held for MONTHS about Ellie.
"It was kind of refreshing, actually. Why should Joel care about the good of humanity at this point anyway?"
-When did he EVER actually care anyway? He first did it because he wanted his guns back...and then went through with it just because Ellie wanted it (Though I'd say that's debatable, considering how she easily believed his lies about what happened at the Fireflies HQ), he never truly cared about any of the journey and if he doesn't why should the audience?
I'd like to point out that I respect you opinions first of all, but I have a few objections.
1. Betrayed by Marlene? More like he's the one who betrayed her. He wasn't supposed to get attached to Ellie and get lost for near a year...and yet still she gave him a chance to leave unscathed, heck she still tried to reason with him even when he took Ellie and was shot for it. Get the facts straight, mate.
2. And I don't see how you could be, but be my guest. I just don't think the entire humanity deserves to go extinct because of the actions of a number of selfish people in the land (And we did see good people who don't deserve having bad things happening to them).
You say "humanity deserved it because they are selfish" but the selfish one here is Joel and he decided the fate of humanity based on his desires to be a father again...Now, I do think you CAN make a good story with these elements of "human selfishness" (Like the original Nier, which I believe did it alot better)...It's just that TLOU was 95% of pointless filler up to that point...and to what end? To tell us that humanity is "shitty"? It's like we know that since the opening scene...what is the new point you're making by this ending where everything is pointless? If the ending just had Joel and Ellie sitting on their asses and stop pursuing the Fireflies it wouldn't make a difference...we still get that humanity is "Selfish and killing itself"...Every chapter in the game has already shown that.
3. I wouldn't compare a meta ending that has a meta point to TLOU ending to be honest...because I'd argue that V3's ending had atleast a point to it...while like I said, TLOU ending didn't really bring anything new or meaningful (The whole selfishness of humanity argument).
In the end, I also understand where you are coming from and you are right...having a "pointless" outcome can be done to enrich the story if done right...It's just that I don't think TLOU ending did that.
The best thing that came out of V3 was Kokichi. Hes a character that no one asked for, but we all needed.
he was the funniest, wittiest and smartest character in the game hands down you can't change my mind
well maybe besides shuichi but that doesn't count
@@averagelio miu was pretty damn funny too, but yeah, kokichi is one of my favorites in the DR franchise, like top 3
@@elodi131 my top three are ouma, togami and fujisaki 😌
@@averagelio chihiro is such a sweethear, i especially loved his alter ego version
well he was the antagonist
I was under the assumption the team behind Danganronpa was simply tired of all the fan pressure to continue the series on endlessly, so they found a way to end the series permanently, while still creating a ground breaking twist that I personally never saw coming. I went from being hyper invested in the first Danganronpa that I actually got to play myself rather than watching lets plays, and then immediately broken off. That kind of emotional shift isn't something that happens every day. Even when they were explaining what was happening, I kept waiting for it all to make sense. I loved this game from start to finish to this day. If there is one downside to the Danganronpa games, and games like Skyrim and Zelda, you can only experience it for the first time, once.
Worst thing they did? LITERALLY KILLED OFF ALL OF MY FAVORITE CHARACTERS except Maki I'll give credit for that
Ryoma and Gonta should survive too.
Both of them deserved better.
And so is Kaede.
New here?
@@FatallyParasocial Was 2 years ago, wow.
I never liked Himiko so I was annoyed that SHE of all people got to live. She was so irrelevant and annoying, she never ONCE did a real magic trick (probably because she never was the ultimate magician) but just, man. I really wish someone else other than her lived.
That's all the games though
I didn't care either way, because I had already lost interest in the game by that point.
Didn't like any of the characters who were left for the final trial. Maki was bearable (but I've seen the 'assassin with a heart of gold' trope too many times to care), the rest I found outright annoying.
Couldn't care less about who lived or died, my favorite characters were long dead.
I agree I didn't really like maki but all my favorites like kiyo angie miu and gonta died I was really hoping at least one of them lived
honesty, same. the thing i hate most in these games is the fact that your favorites always get killed on purpose. like, if Tadaka wanted to make a nearly perfect ending for all the games, he should have just kept mostly everyone's favorite characters alive.
Crazy how good of a job they did making the cast feel like a shitty reality tv show cast, annoying, cliché and unbearable to watch
I want Kaito Angie Kirumi Rantaro and Kaede back :(
i think kaito was the worst character. i think part of that is he killed my boi kokichi (i mean kokichi made him but still) and he also was the most useless character. he did nothing and always was trying to say "we're friends and that means you can't do anything bad"
I mean atleast it wasn't Junko again my lord, anyways...
Your dislike seems soley based on how they're fiction and that it was a cheap way to end it, but the point of it was how fiction can make an impact. The survivors even question if Tsumugi was lying during the Trial. And seeing how the reason for this video was because you loved the characters and had it torn away with the fiction thing, really only reinforces how "fiction can make an impact".
I don't know though, I just wanted Kokichi to live goddammit.
agreed. WHY DID KOKICHI HAVE TO DIE
Aidan Lin This comment IS basically me except replace the word "Kokichi" with "Miu" at the end. Lol.
My son Kokichi deserved better
this.
"Let's trivialize all the story and the characters. Oh, did that sap the enjoyment from you? BUT we succeeded to make a very important point - you won't believe this - A FICTION CAN MAKE AN IMPACT! WHO'D KNEW, right? BILLIONS of stories that people enjoy and getting inspired by... nah, not enough of an evidence. We had to prove it ourselves! BRILLIANT, right?!"
Thank you, you explained why V3's ending destroyed the franchise for me.
"I just wanted to believe in the world. I wanted the characters to be real"
"It feels like the game doesn't want me to enjoy it"
"It just killed any relationship I had with the game"
"The 30+ hours I spent with the characters just felt meaningless"
Also, the 4th class trial...
What was wrong with the 4th class trial?
Connor Broderick
Everything
Ikr I felt disgusted by the whole franchise after this ending.. I loved the characters so much just to learn that they were all fake even in the game
@@cyan411n how exactly?
@@cyan411n V3's fourth trial was one of the most heartbreaking and intense of the ENTIRE franchise. Totally 10/10
Characters before the reveal: Loveable, eccentric people with interesting backstories and personalities trying to survive a killing game. Characters after the reveal: The only thing revealed about their backstories is that they auditioned for a reality show and had all their character traits and backstories programmed in. That shit cheapens the entire game.
I have the fondest memories form the first game as well for the same reason as you. I wish the 3rd game had something like a mystery. The 2nd game still had some unanswered questions from the first game, so it had something to work towards. There was just something missing from V3, and I thought the mastermind was rather obvious.
I agree with 110% of everything you said in this video.
Especially the "Atleast the Monokubs are gone".
Shinzou I personally think that V3 does still leave a bit of mystery after the ending. Tsumugi says something about being a “copycat criminal”, which is never explained and you never actually see if she was telling the truth or not. She could have easily fabricated the sign-up videos, and at the beginning, Kaede says that she was kidnapped, and how it made her remember “how rotten the world was”. That doesn’t exactly sound like the world of peace that Tsumugi described, does it?
Why was the mastermind obvious?
I feel like I'm the only person who was satisfied with the ending.
Yeah everything was fake, but I and the characters chose to believe in something fake.
The characters are fictional, in all danagnronpa games they were fictional.
I believe in the characters who lived and died in the story, wether their backstory were real or not, doesn't matter.
Those fake backstory's is what drove them forwards, and those backstory's is what dictated their actions.
Even though it doesn't exist, it exists to the characters.
And even now, when it doesn't exist to the characters anymore, they are still their characters.
Shuichi will still be a detective, maki will still be strong as fuck, himiko will still do magic and call it such.
Those who died I'll continue to believe in as they were, I don't look at kaito and think of who he was before he entered the game, I think of kaito, luminary of the stars!!!
And that's the kaito I know, love, and believe in as a fictional character.
To me, he was a real character, maybe I've just taken a message from the game, so that's how I see it and I think that's how the characters see it.
I chose to believe, and that's all there really is to it for me. That's why I was satisfied with the ending.
Also himiko didn't die YAY!!!!
Charter Hold I loved the ending, my opinion is simple as that.
The twist doesn't suit Danganronpa. They should have just created a new IP if they wanted all that philosophical stuff.
They killed off Kaede and Kokichi, arguably the 2 best characters in the game.
I'm not gonna judge if you liked it.
I actually think the majority of the community liked the ending! I even talked with people, who think, that DR1 and DR2 are bad compared to V3
Josh Abraham You can't really blame a Killing Game, for killing good characters! A real Killing Game would be kinda random, too, so as long as it make sense, you can't really blame it for a character dying
Kodaka posted a tweet saying V3 has no end.
You know this video is incredibly long for the simple answer being they killed Gonta
Danganronpa makes you fall in love with the characters, story, whole universe and then tears everything apart and makes you feel guilty for liking the fiction they've written
They literally through everything out and I can’t watch Danganrompa the same again
I have to admit that when I was playing through the ending the first time, my thoughts and opinions heavily reflected those expressed in this video. I felt insulted, I felt that the characters I grew to appreciate were somehow cheapened and that whatever message this game was trying to send wasn't worth shattering any suspension of disbelief the series may have had up to this point.
I don't know when my mind changed, but I definitely know 'why' it did.
"When Maki said she was going to sacrifice herself just now, I thought... Why? So many of our friends have sacrificed their lives? Why Maki? Why now? Why do we have to go through it again? The sorrow of losing Kaede, and Kaito... Why do we have to feel that sadness over and over and over again? Why do we have to bear that burden? Well I don't care how much the audience wants it. I'm not gonna feel that way anymore! I don't want anyone to feel that way anymore! Even if this is fiction, even if we're all fictional... the pain in my heart is real! The sadness I feel when I lose the people I love is real! I won't forgive this game that treats us like toys. And if this is what the world wants... then I reject that world! I reject the world that inflicts suffering for entertainment!"
~Shuichi Saihara, case 6
This is the point of the game. Right here.
The pain and death of a fictional character is powerful enough to make you cry for them. If that isn't real, what's the point of discerning reality from fiction? A fictional character may not be real, and the stories they inhabit may not be real, but they are the lies that we tell ourselves, and thus we make them real.
That's the point. The pain they feel is real because the pain 'you' feel 'for' them is also real.
I hope the person who made this video, as well as those who agree with him, take time to really rethink their stance on this game. Kodaka isn't trying to insult you, or insinuate that your characters don't matter. He's doing the exact opposite.
Think about it for a second, Tsumugi's perspective is the one that suggests that the characters are all fake and that none of them actually matter. She's the fucking VILLAIN! And yeah, she makes a pretty compelling case, literally wearing the skin of your favs and your waifus, but Shuichi's speech holds more depth and more meaning than her goofy cosplay antics. The pain in his heart is real, because Kodaka's pain is real, because Megumi Hayashibara's/Grant George's performance expressed that pain, and because you felt the meaning behind those words and they shook you. If not for this work of fiction, than certainly, at some point in your life, some other work of fiction must have done so, otherwise you wouldn't be nerd enough to have watched this video, let alone read my sappy youtube comment.
Humanity transcends flesh and bone. I've said it multiple times across multiple websites, but I'll say it once more.
Your waifu is real.
You can't build a connection over the course of several dozen hours, then shatter it, and expect it to be rebuilt within a few minutes. The effects of this ending are too far-reaching to make that work
And Shuichi and Maki's cries don't even make sense, seeing how every other participant from DR3 onward(even themselves) were perfectly fine with killing other people; otherwise they never would have signed up.
But, of course, to each their own.
They didn't shatter any connection with any of the characters. If, at the end of the game, they were reverted back to their original personalities, you may have had a point, but Shuichi is still Shuichi throughout the final chapter, same with the rest of the survivors.
They're being told that everything that they are and believe in don't matter because their personalities were handcrafted by the antagonist. Shuichi's whole point is that because his emotions are real, he himself is real regardless of his origin. You are supposed to read that and relate it to fictional characters in general. That's the point. Whether you apply Shuichi's logic to fictional characters and come out with a different understanding of storytelling is up to you.
Thomas Alade yeah but that shuichi and maki are totally different people
I don't want to be that guy but...
Kodaka made Danganronpa V3 just to tell people that he was done with the series, and the ending was made especially for that reason.
Xanosvere, Kodak made a piece of art, and like any piece of art, there is a message to be gleamed from it, regardless of the artist's intent.
I don't understand why barley anyone likes Kaito. I loved him. He always reached for the stars, which inspired me. He was very caring. He took Shuichi and lit up his world. He was a true inspiration. With all me heart, I wish he didn't die. His confidence was beautiful. His words effected me. Some people don't like him because he was a believer. What is wrong with trusting and believing in people? His personality was so wonderful. I felt heartbroken when he died. When I think of his death, I feel like I am going to cry. How he tried to help Shuichi showed how good of a person he is. I'm sorry to those who can't see this like I do. I look up to him, even if he is fiction or not. Well, that is my opinion. Kaito, Luminary of the Stars, will forever hold a place in my heart. At least he achieved his dream before he left. I love you, Kaito. 🌠 (If you don't agree, please don't tell me in a toxic way. I hope we can agree to disagree. )
you worded this exactly how i wanted to but never could 🩵
Two coincidences happened while watching this:
As Tsumugi said "It's Junko Enoshima!" I got an add that said "This is it. This is the moment we've been waiting for!"
Also in the middle of watching this, V3 went on sale on Steam
When I saw Gonta die, it really stung me.
underrated comment.
HELP
I disagree.
Heavily.
Not just me, but many people as well.
So me regurgitating what other people in this and other comment sections said is pointless.
But... There _is_ something I wanna say.
It's this:
Thank you.
Thank you for actually keeping an open mind and allowing people to discuss the ending and not just saying "it's bad" like it's some kinda fact.
Thanks man, means a lot!
switch1e
You're welcome.
Kinda sad we have to thank people for having common human decency. Lmao
Persian Slashuur i
I really really *really* did not like the survivors of V3. Himiko was semi-tolerable, Shuichi is the number 1 beta boy, and Maki had all the personality of a dish cloth. All the intriguing characters died too early.
this.
BlueLucario98 Better than SDR2. Souda, Sonia and Akane are actively garbage.
Soda kinda, Akane yes, Sonia... get off my comment section
Nori ! Sonia's best waifu get the fuck off this comment section the rest I agree with
Survivors of V3 I would’ve accepted: literally anyone
Except for Korekiyo
and Angie
I 100% agree with you. To be honest not liking the games ending and a part of the game is an unpopular opinion. Very few people didn't like it. That's ok.
I just didn't like it at all. I post interesting immediately after chapter 1. I was extremely mad at Kaede's death. That genuinely pissed me off. However I got over it after I fell in love with Shuichi's character.
I hated the fact that Tsumigi broke the rules to execute Kaede. Makes me feel a bit crappy about Kokichi. I mean his plan wouldn't have worked right? If Monokuma broke the rules before he would've done it again. Then again he might not have but I don't know.
I also don't like how much Kodaka loves breaking the fourth wall. Even before v3 we all knew from DR and DR2 that he liked breaking the fourth wall as it very repetitive.
There are things I do like! Personally I loved the characters of Danganronpa and felt much more connected to them than any of the other games.
During the 6th chapter of V3 I just stopped caring after the whole "IT WAS ALLLLLL A LIE". I too felt like it was all meaningless after that. Maybe this is just up to personal preference. Some people enjoy the whole absurd ending and others found it to be cheap.
Even though I like DR2 the most I respect the first games ending the most. Like you said it didn't have some cop out neo world program or the whole game is a TV show bullshit. It was an interesting twist with still an interesting ending that does leave it up to the imagination.
(God I just full on ranted here none of this probably makes sense but I can't be bothered to check)
Tripp Dusk I I agree I kind of feel the same way as it made the backstory kind of meaningless I love story of DR1-3Anime as I cared for the characters and I cared for the hardships in their journey and the struggles and I love the characters of V3 with a passion but the ending made me personally feel like what happened before has no meaning in their world so it kinda made me sad to know that what the Hopes Peak saga characters were fighting for meant nothing. It's kinda like telling a kid that Santa's not real they'll be devastated and sad even though they know the spirit of Christmas is what he represents,while other kids will appreciate what he represented and still be happy
Tripp Dusk Here's a fact: All fiction are lies. Are you going to let it ruin everything like it did this game?
Actually I think disliking this ending is a pretty common phenomenon
Man V3 is the sole reason on why I'm ashamed of being a Danganronpa fan....
I wanted Kokicki to live 😔 even more now, I wanted to see what his reaction to all this would be..
Me too
I’m guessing they won’t ever release another game as they’ve pretty much written themselves into a corner?
Well actually danganronpa said there might be a season 4
Hated Danganronpa V3's ending. We know the characters aren't real, we know it's all game already; but we want to believe it's at least real for the characters. Pulling the "it's fictional" card is really similar to shows that pull a "it was all a dream" ending. If done correctly it can work but a lot of the times it leaves people with disappointment.
I cared for the characters not only from the past Danganronpa games and series, but also the ones in V3. And now the games is telling me nothing mattered. My only hope right now is the "multi-verse" thing they seem to reference at the end of V3, I'm hoping they maybe end up things with "V3 was fake but the rest of the games did happen in a different universe" or something.
Also, having a cliff hanger ending is nothing new for the series. We had that in pretty much every game and the series to some extent (the anime was more of an open ending), but V3 just overdid it. Finishing the game leaves you with more questions than answers and I personally think it's a horrible way to end a game. And whether that was the game's purpose or not, I still don't agree with it.
LyonDRC
Shuichi says that what happened in the killing game was real for them regardless of what Tsumugi said. It's like you didn't play the ending and only spoiled yourself.
While I liked the V3 cast and cared for them throughout the game; I couldn't care less about them in comparison with the past casts. Had V3 been a stand-alone game I would've been fine because, like you said, it became real for them even if it wasn't at the start (or before everything happened I guess).
But no. The V3 ending not only includes the cast of that game but the whole series up to that point. Whether Shuichi feels it was real for him or not doesn't change the fact that according to the game, everything I played and experienced in Danganronpa 1, Danganronpa 2, Ultra Despair Girls, Future Arc, Despair Arc and Hope Arc might have not been relevant for anyone at all. That's why I dislike the game.
And no, I played through every single game and watched the anime (except for DR1 anime). So no, I didn't just spoiled myself.
Edit: Guess I should clarify what I meant before anyone decides to be nit picky about it. What I mean when I say I don't care about them in comparison to the past casts I'm referring to the ending specifically. As in, if the V3 cast's personalities are fake that'd would been fine because they "became new REAL people" by the end of the killing game.
LyonDRC
LyonDRC
>I cared for the cast throughout the game
Then there is no reason for that to change. The ending of the game has the characters afirming their own reality and experiences regardless of their origin.
>DR1, DR2 and AE weren't relevant to anyone at all
1) V3 takes place in an AU. The HPA arc ended with DR3 and Kodaka said during V3's production time that the new game would be a soft reboot taking place in a new universe, everyone assumed he was lying but he was telling the truth
2) V3's message is mainly about how fiction has an inherent value if it affects you even if it's a lie. So even if DR1, DR2 and whatever else were lies, that wouldn't change the story dealt with there or how you valued the characters.
Except he wasn't, or maybe he was, which is what I was referring when I mentioned the "V3 overdid it with the cliffhanger ending" in my original comment and why I still have hope that only V3 was fake (also something I said in my first comment).
At this point, there's not much to go for except for what V3 says. And the game literally mentions Makoto as the school's headmaster, implying they're from the same universe. Not to mention Tsumugi transforms into the cast of DR1 and DR2 because she believes they'd be the characters viewers recognize the most from the past fake killing games.
To me at least, it does change the story dealt. To put it this way, imagine DR1 happens the exact same way but at the start of the game they tell you everything that you're going to play it's not really happening even for the characters themselves All of it it's a show and the characters' past, personalities, dreams, etc. is all fabricated even for the game itself. And then the game continues to remind you this throughout the game, I wouldn't have cared for the characters the same way at least.
Obviously the experiences I had and how much I cared for the characters, how much I related to some of them and how much I liked them is not erased or even meaningless for myself. But it is a slap to the freaking face that v3 suddenly pulls a "nothing of that actually mattered for the characters".
Edit: Since you seem so adamant about me caring for the characters, I never mentioned I suddenly stopped caring for them after V3. What I do think is that the game basically punishes you for caring for them. I'm relatively new to the series but imagine people that played the first DR when it first came out and continued to care for the series just to receive a V3 ending payment. It just sucks.
LyonDRC
V3 is an AU, it's not fake because it does not need the HPA universe to be relevant. Kodaka already said the HPA plot ended with DR3...that isn't difficult to understand is it?
>The game literally mentions Makoto as the headmaster and Tsumugi cosplays as characters from DR1 and DR2
That's because in V3, the old DR games are just that, games. V3 happens in an alternate universe where DR began as games, like ours, but it became so popular that it became the "ultimate real fiction". They straight up said that in the last trial.
And by the way, that doesn't invalidates the prior games. They just pulled a Digimon Tamers deal, if you don't know about that, Digimon Tamers was the third season of Digimon and it had the minor plot point of the prior seasons being a anime show in the TV, that didn't invalidate the prior seasons or anything btw.
>V3 pulls a nothing actually mattered
That's what Tsumugi tries to say and it seems that you entered in such a despair from it that you missed Shuichi's counter argument.
>The game punishes you for caring.
The game was meant to bring despair to the player since it is supposed to make you question your experience with the series but It is also meant to give the players a chance to break out of it through Shuichi's counter argument. I'm a relatively old in the fandom compared to you and it didn't affect me as you claim it should have.
The fact that so many people in the comments that like this game/ending are asserting that opposing opinions "just aren't getting it" is very telling of the poor execution of the ending itself (it also reveals unnecessary elitism).
I don't like the ending, and believe me, I tried so hard to. As an artist and writer, I really tried (I'm still trying). But from a philosophical standpoint and the fact that I'm a person that does not like being spoon-fed the moral of the story, I just can't appreciate what this ending has done for my now-transformed perspective of this series.
Some people (i.e, me) don't care for an obvious reminder of the "magical power of fiction that changes reality" within the medium (it's a natural fact for fans of the genre). The games were wacky from the start with Ultimates/SHSLs and social apocalypses, and adding a "yeah these backstories and personalities probably weren't real" can leave a bitter taste.
Lastly, the type of mentality that questions others with different opinions as "uninformed" or "unintelligent" is why this ending, after all this time, remains controversial. I sincerely hope for more civil discourse.
Honestly, fom Kodaka's standpoint, it is a perfect ending. Finally ending the series on his own terms and telling a message on consumption of modern pop culture. We will never see the ending of Marvel or DC heroes because the fans always demand more of the same stories. We will never see Batman getting married or retiring because Batman fans always want him to fight crime and be miserable. DanganronpaV3 is a perfect piece of storytelling narrative that criticize this sort or never ending franchises that usually ends when they are cancelled due to low viewership rather than thought out conclusion. I hope the ending will never be diminshed by Spike Chunsoft trying to continue the series under similar name. Its the ending that many people might not like but it is also the ending that give people a reason to think about it and is surely isn't forgettable. It's basically a form of "genre reconstruction" of game overall franchises (like Finale Fantasy or Star Wars) and work in similar way as Doki Doki literature Club does with challenging the genre of Sim Dates and Undertale with JRPG's
That's interesting. I am also an artist and writer (though quite unexperienced!), but in my case this game and its ending left me thoughtful in a good sense about art and writing. I believe it depends on how much you appreciate possibilities and uncertainty. As I wrote in another reply, there are people who choose to hold onto the one reality, and expect all stories and meanings built on that reality. There are also people who enjoy all layers of reality/fiction, and take in whatever it offers. The power of fiction really isn't that magical, it just pretends to be another reality, so I'd say... why not accept it as another reality? That's what I think anyway.
I am curious, what kind of work do you write? Did you like the 1st and 2nd game?
I hope I don't upset you by admitting that I already knew how Kodaka felt. Trust me, I've done more than enough research on the makings/reception of this ending (especially in my fruitless plight to change my own mind). I never suggested the ending to be "diminished" or changed or... whatever. I'm just adding to the discourse that I feel the ending, if it were executed differently, would have allowed me to enjoy it like others have. How differently, and in what way? I don't really know. I do know, however, that I had been borderline-cool with the ending/twist for a while until I outright disliked it after some time.
I think it just goes back down to what others appreciate in a fictional medium over others, but that's not to say endings like this stump me or go under-appreciated from me every single time (because I know you care so much, I really, really enjoy endings that are exactly what the main character doesn't want, and NDRV3 almost did that).
In reply to +Kino I am a 2D portrait artist and photographer! My portfolio is down while I'm trying to pay a nasty medical bill right now, but here's a link to an old 2014 fanart piece I created for Star Trek: www.behance.net/gallery/15119055/Mind-Melt
(I write on topics from fictional short stories to political/social commentaries, but my writing "style" is scattered and all in physical form.)
In my case, I quickly got over the pseudo-impact DRV3 had on previous entries of the series (but I still think of DRV3's ending even when I replay DR1 for achievements lol). I mean, I accept the ending fairly, but that doesn't keep me from not liking it. Those two actions are easy for me to separate - it's as blasé as accepting a food allergy.
I enjoyed the first game, and I was lucky enough to have that blind experience. I'm a fan of "bad endings" in a sense that the ending is unfavorable for the main protagonists. Sure, it was wacky, but like I stated in OP, the nonsense was established from the very beginning. DR2 was enjoyable through its characters, and while the ending is slightly weaker, I found the gameplay mechanics and case nuances were better-executed (except that dirty, dirty Logic Drive). My issues with DR2's ending were contained within its game and did not retroactively influence (or have the potential to do so) with the previous game. DRV3, by it's nature, was going to do that - and did. While I'm not salty about that approach at all, it amplified my dislike on top of already disliking the execution of it (the ending).
But again, I'm a grown adult, so I keep my dislike to myself (OP was a primarily a criticism of the nature of many of the comments already posted).
TLDR; It's okay if I don't like it. I wish I did, but I'm chill being in this spot. It doesn't affect my enjoyment of the previous titles despite it being on my mind when I play them. Ultimately, the only one who can change my mind is myself (and I think many people forget this very important human fact).
For me it was the other way around. I hated the ending initially, and only after giving it a thought and seeing people's Let's Play reactions, I figured out the very cool direction behind the game and where it parodied itself. If you want to see the essential story from point A to point Z and the closure of Hope Peak arc then you basically just need to watch Danganronpa 3 anime. V3 is basically a mini episode in another universe that copy our universe and take the Danganronpa 1-3 games and anime into it account to fool us and make an effective twist. Whether i hated the meta commentary or breaking of immersion doesn't matter when we take into account overall experience of the game and the story and the lasting impact. I can seriously say the story and ending is much more memorable than characters and story in DR1 and DR2 and especially the anime DR3
I actually didn't feel disappointed by the ending, but maybe it's just me.
I think the point of it all was that even if it was a lie, it was *their* truth, they lived through those experiences and acted those personalities, thus making them "real lies" or "false truths" I guess.
yeah but they did it poorly
@@lindsey7544 how? genuinely curious because i believe the whole "truth is in the eye of the beholder" thing was prominent in v3 since the beginning and was one of the most prominent aspects of the ending
@@aviraes im no longer interested in the game but they dropped the news very suddenly which sucks in most games
I agree with this video and everything that's been said.
As soon as the ending came on, i started to lose interest in what happened to the characters and everything started to seem fake. I would've preferred if they had just gone with a traditional well thought out ending.
Also i don't get the argument "All fiction is fake, so them being selfaware doesn't really matter does it?"
Imagine seeing Luke Skywalker not caring to destroy the Death Star because he knew it's all fiction anyways
To me stories are ment to be kept immersive and realistic, and while Danganronpa is known to have some fairly unrealistic plots, it still works because of the great character development and long time spent in the setting. Them breaking the fourth wall just seems like throwing a great story into the trash bin and saying "Hey you cared about our characters so fiction is power"
I've tried so many times to like V3's ending, and i know the majority finds it well made, but i just can't no matter how much i try.
I still respect everyones opinion tho, regardless of if they like the ending or not.
The thing I don't understand is:
Why was Kaede the blackened, if Tsumugi was the one who killed Rantaro?
I just feel like Kaede was robbed, she even believed that she killed Rantaro even tho she didn't.
Because if Tsumugi was caught (the mastermind) everything would've ended, so she and Monokuma lied and kept Kaede as the blackened. Would've wished they added a DLC or a secret option after the game where you can accuse Tsumugi, sad that the game didn't do that
I think the game's producer thought if they give people an ending like this they'll get angry and they won't want any new killing game. To summarize, they wanted to estrange people from Danganronpa. And we can say they did it. And I'm not sure but I remember I read somewhere, they didn't want to make any new Danganronpa games, they said they want to make new types of games.
But, buuut all of your opinion seems to be born from your choice to only judge the story when it was over, and that's what's dangerous, because seems to me like a meta-defense of "I don't want to be surprised, so I will wait until Chapter 6 to eventually have the answers and then I judge everything." when this is a mystery game (the fact it's called a game it's for you to feel "Fun" or any other emotion during all of the time you're playing) where you have to think (not became insane, but be thinking) constantly and yet feels the characters' feelings at the same time. In other words, mystery can be logic ALL the time and game can be emotion ALL the time.
I'm not saying you aren't thinking by yourself, but the game recalls you several times to think harder with the the twist in Chapter 1 AND with the twist about the same case (Rantaro's case) that could be suspected if we thinked about the missing Monopad or the trajetory of the shotput ball in the images.
Why am I bringing this up? Because I loved the ending and the epilogue, and both made me look like the story isn't over, because there's a giant mystery that I knew it's possible to resolve (I'm making a theory), and that really makes me wonder how much it's great to see what the truths and the lies of DRV3 are by myself (by checking the prologue, for example) and this giant Mystery makes me believe there's still more story in the future. Because Kodaka wanted to finish Hope's Peak arc, why didn't he would try to finish this whole new arc? Also, Shuichi kept repeating "The story isn't over." In the end.
Also the feelings from each character, specially Kaede and Shuichi, made me feel like real feelings in Chapter 1 and this chapter already made me think DRV3 beats the other DR games in the "emotion" category. Since you blindly believed that "Everything is fake because it was scripted" from Tsumugi, I can say that human feelings always are real because they are only how we react to the information we are given. Of course, these emotions are temporary and loses more of it's value when the information given was being manipulated, but that doesn't mean any of the feelings in the game were fake (except, perhaps, Tsumugi's feelings) or lies. If it isn't in that way, then obviously moral lessons in story wouldn't be popular. Of course, that means TDR were kidding with the feelings and memories from the cast and making them of toys. And that's bg many Seasons.
That's why it was almost unbelievable to me to see "the cast" wanting to die (well, "forget about everything you are" seems like wanting to die for me) and being toyed around by TDR and the audience. And of course, that's why I find Shuichi wanting everybody to sacrifice theirselves to finish this monster called "killing game" so sad at the same time só noble and cool. That's why I thinked Shuichi sharing his emotions and doubts about Tsumugi's words in the epilogue are great, because it looked to me that Kodaka was saying: "Yeah, I know how you feel and I'm not making these sick and twisteds stories of spreading despair without reason anymore, so just go do the mystery-fun and your treasure box is waiting you."
And there is the mystery of the cospox. Even though Kaede"s "body" was real, the Kaeda Akamatsu character was fictional (and it was probably not her real name in the real world) so why couldn't the mastermind cosplay as her?
I think the characters' names are real, based on the prologue.
That's true but in that case, why did the mastermind bother "hiding" Shuichi's "true" name in that case in his video during the last trial? That's kinda odd. ^.^
You two have both good points. If you wanna know what I think about these, I wrote something about it (theory I'm slowly making): medium.com/@luizhengs_1874/good-day-for-you-5816c87e4b43
Kamehameaaron X100 check my theory above, please
im not sure what that really changes for me, that their back stories and characters overall are fake. It doesn't make Gonta less innocent, it doesn't make kokichi less of an adorable fucker, it doesn't make Kaede less of a good person and it certainly doesn't make kaito less awesome. I think what they did with the ending, yes, seems like a cop-out but underneath everything (forgetting the previous games) it poses one of the greatest questions ever posed in a video game. Would we still be us if everything about us was a lie? What if your childhood best friend who helped you through tough things in your life wasn't real? What if the people who cared most for you didn't exist? What if the very foundation of your love was fiction? Does that make you fiction? Someone else's imagination? Your likes, dislikes, personality are all completely tailored. Even your emotions. Yes, it's frustrating that their backstories aren't real, but does that make the characters less real? If this was a game where the characters where not interesting, flat and boring then the ending would have definitely been annoying. It's because we see the hardships and the struggles in Maki and we see the growth in Himiko and Suichi that this question holds any ground at all. It's so philosophical and real and that's why I love it.
The question is great, but it was so poorly executed. Games like DDLC do a waaaaaay better job of bringing forward that sort of philosophical question.
@@miamafalda1118 care to elaborate?
@@miamafalda1118 I want an elaboration on this one, I can see it but I don't wanna play DDLC again cause I simply do not want to
The enjoyment of the ending really depends on how you interpret it
Honestly you're completely right
"i always come back" - Junko
"Junko Enoshima is *always* the mastermind.", Tsumugi
Well, it seems Team Danganronpa was lazy af to make the same b... the mastermind for 53 seasons 😂
No matter how you interpret the ending, whether Tsumugi lied or not doesn’t change the fact that the ending as a whole was badly written.
you clowns always parrot "badly written", but never properly elaborate
this video is filled with misinformation that completely misunderstands the entire chapter
e.g. DRV3 is not fictional - that gets repeated few times and it ties to many other twists afterwards, yet this brainlet completely failed his assignment with this video 4:53
DRV3 is not only a well written ending, it's one of the best endings in video games
I wanted Kokichi to live so bad, I think V3's mistake was killing most of the cast off. The other games had at least five or six (I forget) survivers while V3, only had three survivors.
I felt so much despair over Kokichi's death, I loved him so much
Yeah and he was such an interesting character I really really wanted him to live he was my favourite
Also can I ask you something about the ending? I might be misunderstanding something but I really want someone to answer me.
If the danaganronpa characters are fictional then tsumugi could cosplay as them right? But why in the first chapter when tsumugi wears Kaede's clothes she turned pink or whatever that was saying that she can't cosplay as *real people* so is kaede and the others fictional or not?
At the 4:13 mark when Tsumugi said, "it's Junko Enoshima". An election ad played... hmmm
I’m just now discovering the details of the ending. I rage quit during trial 6 because it felt like the game was telling me I shouldn’t care about the danganronpa world.
Same
Omg I agree so much with you
Its like you read my mind or something.. this danganronpa v3 had so many potential with its character,story,tricks, and quality and then the ending just blowed up everything, it disappointed me a lot.
i'm completely on your side with this, when i saw the ending for the first time it pissed me off so much that i'm now skeptical about playing another danganronpa game in general now.
fetch games to be honest I don’t think there will be one and we ended on a very bad note
I get that the whole point of the "it's all fiction!" ending was to make the player feel despair, because there's nothing more disparaging to a player than to find out they wasted their time with a video game (or for it to just suck), but it feels like the game is talking down to the player or making fun of the fanbase for even caring about it in the first place. I know people who like the ending will say "well duh, it IS fiction, every video game and movie and story is fiction, that's the point, why get so worked up about fictional characters?" Yeah, well played Spike Chunsoft, well played. I do like the message behind the ending, it's just the way it's executed that I have a problem with. Trying to make the player feel guilty for enjoying the games, or getting invested in the characters. It feels like you're being talked down to, like "ha what an idiot for giving a crap about a fictional piece of work...and the fact you're getting worked up about it proves our point". But was that what the fanbase was asking for? An April Fool's joke ending? I still like DV3, and I even like the message and theme behind the ending, what with truth vs lies, reality vs fiction, but I don't feel like I can say DV3 is a canonical serious entry in the series. It's more like a spin off or a "what if" scenario, disguised as a true blue "threequel". I know Danganronpa was never a super serious franchise to begin with, I mean c'mon say "the biggest most horrible most awful tragedy in human history" outloud and tell me you don't snicker thinking a 10 year old wrote that. But it still had memorable likable and hateable characters you get invested in, and to be told the obvious, that they're all fictional and none of it matters as some sort of meta commentary just feels like a slap in the face. It almost feels like the creator whose name escapes me wanted to shoot Danganronpa dead in it's tracks. Imagine a future Kingdom Hearts game ending with Sora waking up in his bedroom with his mom calling him down for dinner and he's like "Sorry I overslept, I had this crazy dream about Donald and Goofy, I've been watching too many Disney movies lately". I think all Kingdom Hearts fans would quit video games forever.
It makes me feel sad when they say all the back story is fake
Oh Paige Cutie Still people don't understand she could be lying. She was also a copy cat.
MellowVGC If the she is lieing then why not resolve this in the finale instead of leaving it out in the open? Do they plan on making a sequel? I doubt it since they ruined the last game with the fourth wall preaching about how killing is bad.
@@moonie1825 ?
@@etam8099 the one and only
@@moonie1825 i'm just gonna enjoy the fact that you answered me even if your comment was 2 years old, dang the community really is still alive.
V3's ending was probably my favorite. It was much more complex and left a lot more up to you. The other games ended with 'hope is better than despair lol' but V3 kept the theme of truth vs lies till the last line. The end made a lot of sense to me and I understood before they even had to explain it all haha. It provoked a lot of though on wether truth or lies or even just plain belief was better. And I like that they added the Tsumugi line at the end to make room for theories. This came so close to beating DR1 as my fav but nostalgia always wins for me lol. I loved almost every character, the gameplay, the trials, and the twists. I get why some people don't like the end but honestly it probably was the most complex and thought out endings in DR and I was glad they didn't try to fall back on 'despair ruined everything but hope saved the day'
its not complex it all. there are too many fourth wall breaking endings and the ending is comparable to the "it was all a dream" ending. boring and annoying and it gets rid of any meaning the story had.
@@voidsap it's not fourth wall endings sorry, I think your wrong
@@moved596 i agree
@@voidsap except it wasn't all a dream.. everything actually happened. unless you're referring to hope's peak possibly being fake? just because there are many fourth wall breaking endings doesn't mean it's automatically not complex.
in a way they broke the fourth wall without breaking it at all. the people fuelling the killing game was a fictional audience all inside DR. their memories in V3 were fake but everything actually happened. it's not much different from SDR2's matrix style "it's a game" ending which i also really enjoyed. we were playing a game which was actually about a show about a killing game. i also love how it deviated from the "hope vs despair" ending where shuichi flat out rejects both of them in hopes of leaving the audience unsatisfied. which leads me to believe that this ending was created to deflate tension, to tell you that your attachment should be to ideas and concepts via fake storytelling or Lies, rather than losing all interest because its all phony, to wrap up v3's larger themes of truth vs lies and is the truth always worth seeking out, that truth is all in the eyes of the beholder, and that when a lie is a believable lie, it becomes one's Truth, and its means of using anti-climax to portray such a message is really ambitious imo.
I personally had no problems with the ending and think V3 is the best game from the entire franchise thus far but this video was pretty interesting! However (granted I might be a little bias because V3 is my favorite video game of all time) I don't think that it really mattered at all the characters where just fictional, since in the end ever since the beginning all the danganronpa characters have been fictional and not meaning like they've always been mugi'd I mean like danganronpa is a game at the end of the day it's all fiction I don't think it should be any different for the V3 characters just because they're basically actors who were brainwashed and besides I personally think the idea of kids volunteering to kill each other for a tv show is much more interesting than Junko and her magic anime shit (I'm not a fan of DR3) Mugi was basically what I was hoping to see Junko do in DR3 manipulate people using her talent not using random effects while she murders Chiaki. However Mugi is a much weaker villain than Junko and parts of her came off as just a fangirl for her OC.
smegel limes sure, gameplay was the best but... ya... this cast... oof. so many characters were close to being great but then OH I’M KIRUMI AND HAVE TO BE PRIME MINISTER or OH I’M KIYO AND HAVE TO KILL FOR MY DEAD SISTER WHO I PROBABLY RAPED, just like fuck man they shot theirselves in the foot constantly and left me so unsatisfied after every chapter
@@captaintreeko3188 I agree with that, Ryoma didn't deserve to die.....(It's kinda weird that the best characters die in chapter 2)
@@bestwatermeloneverlol8613" My name is Tereteru the ultimate cook, but please call me the ultimate chef." ( *Shows ultimate cook* _Tereteru what_
V3? Don't you mean 2?
I get what your saying and I agree with it but I enjoyed it just for how it said the fans were the reason that the killing game became a thing it made me think about what would actually happen if something like this was allowed to take place in the real world
Ghost walker Games It’s definitely a crazy idea.
switch1e it's an ending that makes you think it might not be the best cannon wise but it made me think a lot TBH
Closest to a real world equivalent (in film anyway) is Hunger Games
@@shayminister4922 yep i forgot but whose better?
I just wanted Rantaro and Kaede to live, they're infinitely more interesting than Shuichi or Tsumigi. Made the game after Case 1 a lot less interesting for me.
Ending twist is interesting but also depressing since it was all pointless and none of the characters were what you thought they were.
I feel the exact same way. Once I found out the world was fake even in the game world...I honestly couldn't enjoy the game or characters. DR2 was one of my favorite games (I loved DR1 but 2 just topped it better for me for some reason), and the virtual world didn't bother me, as they were still the exact characters outside the program as we see in the wrap-up anime. I hate what they did, and they could've done it better if they wanted to keep the TV show aspect. Maybe Tsumugi WAS a Remnant of Despair herself, or she was so interested in the Tragedy and Hope's Peak she thought to put on a game of her own? We saw the influence powerful people can be on companies, it wouldn't have been hard for her to do it. Then she kidnapped random kids without talents and made them into Ultimates. Anything besides the "it was all fake" thing.
Video games are meant to pull you into a world to the point where you want to believe they are real (to an extent) but this ending... it was like a slap to the face.
Exactly mate. They even could have made it that she was trying to make them believe that everything is fake so they would fall into despair and the final puzzle would be to find out that they are prisoners of a sick remnant.
If they ever make a Dr 4, it better be like some type of reboot instead of picking up on where v3 left off. Cuz if they do that, I be madddddd piss
I loved the ending, but I wish it was better.
DRv3 is the DR that disappointed me the most.
First of all it's obviously because of the ending. I really didn't like it. I felt like the dev team was kicking the fans in the balls and laughed at them. The whole "It's all fake" is a plot device way too boring and convenient. You can explain ANYTHING with it. On top of that, I hated some characters, like Angie, and I loved some characters, like Gonta, but in the end it didn't matter because "it's all fake xdddd". And knowing that, I can't even just play the game again because I know the characters are fake.
Then, Cases 3 and 4. Just my opinion but they felt like the worse cases ever in DR. Case 3 was so obvious. It could have been very interesting that there were two different killers. But no the 2nd murder was committed by the same murderer... On top of that I really liked the character but they decided to just make him an incestuous brother. Geez. But I guess I don't have to care since they're fake xdd. Also, the Scrum Debate was useless. "Let's decide to vote now or later, knowing that we are only sure of one of the murderers." I mean, OBVIOUSLY you should continue investigating and not vote for the first killer right now??? Anyway, about Case 4, it just felt so wrong and bullshit. I felt the game FORCED Gonta to be the culprit because he wouldn't hurt a fly by nature.
Scrum Debate was the best minigame but they didn't use it to its full potentual IMO. The Hangman's Gambit was the worse thing ever. Mind Mine is the worst new minigame. Psyche Taxi should have been called Logic Drive but still was fun.
Anyway it's just my opinion, you're free to have your own opinion on the game obviously.
Iceborn I feel exactly the same about chapters 3-4! They are my least favourite from the whole DR3. I thought I was the only one who took it so seriously xd
Agreed, especially with gonta's case. He's definitely not my favourite but I KNOW he wouldn't willingly kill Miu no matter how much kokichi tries to manipulate him. He definitely knew what was wrong and right in that specific situation. Sdr2 was the best in my opinion cause there was a solid cast and an ending which didn't have more plot holes than a basketball net.
i feel you guys arent seeing that there is more to this ending. do remember that the things tsumugi said are not necessarily true, and that there are many contradictions to what she said. if you replay the game youll soon see that the mystery just isnt over as there are quite a few holes in it still
Dude, that's not it, TSUMUGI says it's all fake, but the game itself does not support and say the same thing, Shuichi ends up finding meaning to their lives, it's a lie, but it's a lie that changed the world, they are not just " fake xdd"
Basically, it's the exact opposite, the antagonist tells you that you are fake, and you respond with telling them that no matter how fake you are, since you changed the others outside, your life have meaning.
So no, not at all, it's not "all fake" its more like "it's all fake, but it still have meaning, it's all fake, but our feelings, and what we lived is real no matter what".
Yeah I agree with you so much glad I found some people that agree this game is god awful and a joke to the franchise
Maybe they can make the game not have someone who isn't an Investigator or a Police Officer or something
Sdr2 had far better talents imo.
There's a lot of things that bothered me from this game, but one of them was the inconsistency with Tsumugi's Ultimate
She's supposed to cosplay fictional character ONLY but when we reach the ending it's revealed that everyone's part of that fiction, so, the "Cospox" shouldn't even have happened before.
Would you say that this ending was... Despair inducing?
In all seriousness, I don't think you should go through the final trial and ending focusing on how you feel about the game; your supposed to put yourself in the shoes of shuichi and the others and feel what they feel. After losing hope and being destroyed by despair ( which I think being told that your whole life and everything you know was fake; on top of actually being a murder obsessed person who volunteered for this game, is one of the most despair inducing things ever) they come together and decide to live; make a life for themselves and end the game they supposedly volunteered for. That would take a lot of Hope to accomplish. And a lot of bravery. And you are supposed to empathize and feel that despair and hope with them.
When I think back about the characters and all that, I just forget about the ending, because the characters within the reality show were still great, even if they weren't "real", like every other videogame character out there.
I like to share my half of opinion to your theory. Before all that ending, There was a hint of clues to the story. At first start of the game you started of with no memory who you are beside your name with a memory of you've been kidnapped, later to get your memory back knowing your ultimate. I believe all 15 student do not have any ultimate to began with. Their ordinary student like hajime. Why? Because there was 1 cut scene about kaede wearing what seems to be like an nero project head set that they're plug in to the nero programme which explain why the entire game was "sci-fi" with addition to tsumugi's quirk of unable to cosplay real people. And also explain why the memory they've been set and given could not and never be reset. This entire series could have took place many many years after the world was recovered from despair and people most likely feel nostalgic to the situation which explain the ending " everyone wants to watch u kill each other " It is not referring to us but the world there, and could explain why there was a series till 53 killing game it become an entertainment. All because Tsumugi. A cosplayer have a power to "copycat " every talent however obliviously like she keep saying " just like the killing game " she couldn't and become a fan of izuru kamukura. There is no telling if she could also rebuild a nero programme with her team too. Plus in addition Is likely the survival couldn't escape that world probably they need to find the button to shutdown the program... Well thats what i think and more puzzle to be feed on the next maybe
If all our previous character who have died, they are considered as " Fiction " not a real human. Like us, those who died are history to us. leaving the newer generation explaining their " fake " or act of " fiction "
dude that neo program head set was the thing they used inside those fake memories to delete their memories about their ultimate talents so they could "die with everyone" on Earth instead of flying into space.
At least that's what I understood about it
Can definitely see where you're coming from with the ending, had mixed opinions about it myself. But why exactly does that ruin the characters for you? Not implying you should separate the characters and the story by any means, that'd be impossible, but does the fact that the characters were fake really change anything at all? At the end of the day, this cast is actually just as fictional as the past two, no matter how many layers of fiction you go in, that's why I'm kind of confused at why people are so genuinely angry about the ending (not saying that you are, your review is pretty levelheaded.) When I look back at the game I feel as though I can still remember each event pretty fondly actually, and the fact that the characters were fake doesn't really change that. Kokichi is still an incredibly fun antagonist, Shuichi is relatable, etc. I've also seen a lot of people react as if the fact that DR1 and DR2 were fake, devalues those games as well, which doesn't exactly make much sense to me, They're still fun stories with a diverse cast, and plenty of mysteries to solve, Just like V3. And yes, while a lot of those mysteries didn't have any value at the end of the game, it's the actual impact that those mysteries leave on the characters that's interesting to see.
Nicolai Gorden it goes down to a philosophical question. I guess for me the game telling me that Kokichi’s motives were all nonexistent makes me uninterested in him as a character
but that principally ignores what the actual message is about the final trail.... that fiction can affect reality (I think that was the final truth bullet) The game wants you to know that non of this is real, that this will likely be the end depending on how much you think you value the though of sending people as real as you and me off to their death for enjoyment. But it also wraps up a very deep message that you ether missed or ignore about how art trully shapes the human heart..... to dismiss that is disingenuous.
I see what you are saying, but still... Kodaka didn't need to break the fourth wall to get his point around. Even if he didn't break the fourth wall, he was definitely close to breaking it.
switch1e
"Kokichi's motives were all nonexistent" actually seems to me more of a really sad and despairing outcome than a matter of losing interest in his character, and any other characters, that is
In the end, Kokichi's "I wasn't boring, right?" and his struggle to get through it all despite he knows he's not even real, gets this point across even clearer
1. Kill Kaede
That what they did wrong
Don't forget Gonta, Ryoma, Kokichi, and Kiibo.
Hey OP since you saw the twist coming from the prologue, did you notice that the killers and some victims all followed a pattern based on previous games?
It hard to say that this game had the "best" cases when you catch onto it.
Like for example, Kirumi and Peko are both silver haired, emotionless, and commit a murder in service of a "master" of some kind? And in their execution, they try to run and escape their punishment?
Kaede and Sayaka both have talents related to music and commit a first murder. The first blackened is executed in a way mocking their talent.
Gonta and Gundam both worked with animals of some kind, and in their execution they're destroyed by the very thing they loved the most.
The third killer is doing it for the vein of some form of twisted love, and Korekiyo is basically a reverse of Genocider (only kills females, as opposed to only males).
And both Tsumugi and Junko have talents related to some form of fashion.
I've seen a lot of discussion about this and pointing it out, and the more you think about it, the worse the aftertaste of V3 becomes.
It doesn't help that V3 was constantly touted as something new and 100% original by Kodaka. Tbh, I think Kodaka was just DONE.
And like you, I can no longer geek out about the characters like I used to and the V3 cast is the cast I feel the least attached to.
I had such high hopes for these characters and their story, which would have NO references at all to the past few games. I really wanted something brand new and, knowing it was the last, self-contained.
Instead, I got the biggest disappointment I'd felt in a long time.
I'm glad to finally see a video expressing someone feeling the same way. Thanks for not sucking SC's dick, OP, seriously.
Good video.
To be fair, it actually kind of makes sense that V3 kind of re-uses a formula in order to switch it up. If you think about it as V3 being a game that's supposed to mimic the previous Danganronpa games, what everybody fell in love with, it kind of makes sense they'd work within that same formula range. If anything, it makes *less* sense for SDR2 to be as similarly-structured to the first game as it was.
The first cases, there's always that sense of betrayal, the person you're closest to might not be who they seem. The first case it was Sayaka, the second case it was Nagito despite him not actually killing anybody, the third game, they reversed the POV and the person you were playing as turns out to be some form of unreliable narrator who killed in an attempt to stop the killing game (though she didn't actually kill him).
Peko didn't try to escape her punishment, that was Monokuma controlling her. I do agree that Kirumi and Peko are *extremely* similar though, although there are notable differences. I personally really like the parallel between Kirumi and Ryoma, one having nothing to live for while the other having too much to lose. Peko never really thought that way.
You're completely right about the third case, probably why the 3rd cases are consistently the worst DR cases (missed opportunities, rushed, lack of great character moments and interactions overall)
You're right about Gonta and Gundham. Case 4's are always some sort of sacrificial kill, although in this case it was a unique "killing someone for their own good" "ignorance is bliss" kind of mentality Gonta had. In his mind, it was not his death that would "save" everyone, it would be his survival, and his alone. Then there's also the fact that the culprit didn't even remember which made it super unique in that regard.
The last one also makes perfect sense when you think about it.
This ending was so poorly executed.it it was cheap like all the characters you got to know meant nothing
I hate how sad Kokichi looked before he transformed into an ultimate. That look is the look of someone who had been through some sh-
V3's ending felt like the TYBW arc of Bleach, where the author was at their wit's end with the series and just didn't want to bothered with it anymore, so they wrote it off in a way to completely disregard the previous stories without care of whether or not it was relatively cohesive.
I'm also just... not a fan of the messaging behind it. The ending just feels like an edgy high schooler pulling the whole "humanity fucking sucks and you're fucking sick for enjoying things!!!!!!!!!!!" without much to counterbalance it, aside from Shuichi's lines at the very end.
I totally get why people like V3, but the ending just leaves a bad taste in my mouth at the end of the day. Simply just not for me.
I really loved DRV3. I don’t really understand the complaint that the characters aren’t real within the canon so they’re hard to invest in. I mean, they’re not real anyways, the extra layer of universe between me and them didn’t affect my investment in them at all because I already knew that these weren’t real people in the back of my head. I feel like the game makes a compelling argument why that doesn’t invalidate their feelings in universe either also.
All of the characters were so insufferable I literally dropped the game at the start of the second investigation. Their personalities are just pushed way too hard to be likeable for me. In the first and second game the characters still felt believable and slowly showed their traits through time.
When I play this game I feel the characters are almost fighting for attention with their one trait. "I'm Miu, I make perverted jokes constantly all the time and that's all I do!", "I'm Tenko, and men are degenerates!" etc. Even within the context of it being a tv show these characters aren't supposed to know that so it doesn't make sense for them to try to push these personality traits so hard. I lose respect for them as characters immensely because even if I think they can say some funny things I feel like they immediately follow up with the equivalent of "get it! it's because that's my whole character! Let me do it 5 more times so you understand that's who I am!"
Even if the ending was terrible like the second game, I would totally be willing to overlook it if it did the characters and story right for the most part.
Tokku agreed
valid but miu's perversion is definitely not all there is to her. we see her inferiority complex, and hints of genuine cowardness throughout the way. she's one of the only characters who killed only because she was genuinely scared
I felt so unsatisfied from the ending. I went back to the ending and prologue to find any concrete evidence on what actually happened, if the characters had actually died, if the tapes were fake, etc. That's when I realized the game made it so there are so many different possibilities as to what actually happened. It fit right into the theme of the game, which wasn't just about lies, but believing in what you think is best to believe in, even if it's not the truth. When I had this realization, I felt content and came to love the ending.
The worst things they did was killed off kirumi and gonta and make kokichis existence
:/ kokichi was the antagonist he was important while gonna and kirumi really weren't that important
Kokichis existence? He is fucking antagonist and made the game more interesting.
V3’S BIGGEST MISTAKE WAS KILLING OFF RANTARO FIRST
I was iffy on it when they promised us a female protagonist in a main series game just to kill her off. Kaede was an incredibly refreshing protagonist and was a welcome change for the series and then we got another soft Boi self doubting all the time....
The ending I do not care for. I choose to believe that it was another lie set up by Tsumugi, because if it’s not, then what’s the point in going on with the franchise as a consumer? Like you said, it really cheapens the characters, and I have no desire to learn more about them or see their Love hotel scenes. It also retroactively cheapened the other characters for me. Like, how could they do this to my favorite characters?? Also Tsumugi was way out of character for some of her cosplays, which gives me hope that she was once again lying.
I love the mystery aspect of DR, and having it all be just a fictional universe is a meta commentary that I don’t think we need. The universe is already turning against reality competition shows, you can see discourse like that everywhere now, and even in 2017. The meta analysis of the fan base made me feel like they were mocking me for enjoying the story of their games. I personally did not care for it
Please, someone make a quick stupid spoof of this.
Make junko say "well, how are you going to end this killing game"
Then cut back to sushi-chi looking all depressed and then he just looks at the camera, gives a big ol' smile and says "llliiiiikkeee this!"
Cut to black, roll credits really fast, genius
time to hire the voice actors
"What Danganronpa V3 Did Wrong"
Up Next: "Why Danganronpa V3's Plot is Brilliant"
Huh.
“ ITS JUNKO ENOSHIMA!”
“oh.”
*gets an ad*
I wish Miu used her talent more. Her talent was probably the best talent in v3, especially since she can make any invention if she thinks of it, I mean like she can literally teleport underwear. It’s kinda sad how she died, but honestly her death could have been avoided. Shuichi obviously noticed she starting acting weird, and if he or Keebo ( I think Miu is closer to Keebo than everyone else) talked to her about it, she might have not tried to murder Kokichi. Without her, they wouldn’t have passed the Death Road of Despair in chapter 5. It’s really disappointing how she died, and the only one who really noticed what she was planning, was none other than Kokichi himself. I don’t blame Kokichi for really killing her, since she kinda tried to kill him first, but I do blame him for forcing Gonta into it and manipulating him. I also wish that Miu had character development. With her personality and such, it would be cool to see her change, since you can tell she was abandoned (love hotel event) and she doesn’t really seem that bad. I personally just think she was abandoned by her friends or something, since she’s scared of betrayal which gave her a motive to commit murder, and also if she was abandoned by her parents, wouldn’t you hear her speak at least one thing about her parents? She just seems like a static or supporting character. If she was scared of betrayal tho, she could have easily made an invention to help with that, but she didn’t. I know she curses a lot and makes vulgar jokes, but honestly, if you were dragged into this situation, I’m sure some of you guys would be cursing. Her character is a bit over the top, but that’s just part of her charm. There’s so many things going on with her which makes her interesting for me, at least. She could have had a really cool story or character development, but didn’t. The writers could have done so many things better with this plot, but the plot still isn’t that bad. I feel like it’s more emotional and has a deeper meaning than v1 and v2, but it depends on the person. It really does ruin things for you when they reveal that literally everything is fake, and that even v1 was all fiction, and I really disliked how they made the audience seem that way, since we are the audience after all. In the end, I just wish they did a lot of things better, but I still think it’s nice, and honestly, I wouldn’t be able to think of something like this. I’m sorry for this long paragraph and such.
Brilliant argument. I feel the same to a degree. While I liked the ending I do feel like it came at the cost of my love of the characters.
When i found out all the characters were fake it made me sad I was thinking there friendship, family and just all the characters i grew to love were fake and my whole opinion of danganronpa has changed a lot i still like it but not the way i did before. I completely agree with your opinion of the end and I know games are fiction but to know the characters in the fiction are also fiction and aren't even real in the fiction world when i talk about the characters i can't connect to them. But i wonder what there outside world personalities are like even if we like them I don't think we'll like them the same as the characters that are fake since we know them to well.
I wanted Kokichi the ultimate roaster to live :(