Friend, I feel like you are the single best person on UA-cam in Christianity at avoiding strawman arguments. You are very good at recognizing and respecting different viewpoints.
@@ReplyToMeIfUrRetarded Does he though? He’s not Orthodox so he won’t understand every intricacy, but to say he uses a strawman doesn’t seem right either.
Keep in mind that the traditional Jewish listings of the 10 commandments also combine “have no other gods” and “graven images” just like the Catholics and Orthodox. And shortly after receiving the commandments, Moses was instructed to put cherubim statues atop the ark. It’s seems to me that the intent was to not worship the images in place of God, not that the images themselves were problematic.
The Orthodox and Catholic churches use different numbering systems. The reformed tradition and most other protestants use the orthodox one. The Catholics and Lutherans use the one you are referring to
@@JohnTDeckYou’re right, the Orthodox are different, which is surprising to me. Still though, the Jews; who I think should have been a topic of conversation; it is the Torah after all.
@@JohnTDeckthe Jewish one is a different one from the other two. They combine both "don't worship other gods" and "don't make idols" as the 2nd commandment, and also combine "don't covet your neighbour house" and "don't covet you neighbour wife" as the 10th, while the 1st is simply "I'm the Lord your God". The logic could still be the same of the Catholic and Lutheran way though
As a Catholic i really love the way you say your opinion without disrespecting the others denominations! I hope we have more people like you in the future, not agreeing with the others point of view sometimes but still being respectful.
100% why i listen to this channel. He does a greatt job of giving the information without to much bias. Obviously there is some bias but thats to be expected. He is human afterall
If you’re interested in looking into the shroud I *highly* recommend the podcast about it on Pints With Aquinas with Fr. Andrew Dalton. I’m not Catholic, but I loved that episode and was so enthralled for the whole three hours. It helped deepen my faith in the resurrection.
In regards to the Shroud of Turin you should look up the Pints with Aquinas episode with Father Andrew Dalton. Title should be “New Evidence for the Shroud” or something to that effect. I already believed it was a true relic of the Lord’s resurrection, but so much more-so after watching that. Enlightening either way whatever side you come out leaning towards
@@longiusaescius2537I agree that we need to have faith but Jesus did a lot of works to prove himself and Luke recorded a ton of them and said it was so that we can have certainty that Christ was lord. Maybe it’s best to leap straight from hearing the lord’s name to being willing to be a martyr, but most people are a process and need to have reasons why they believe in the first place then faith develops with trials.
as orthodox id say icons are a wonderful and necessary part of worship. not only are they beautiful pieces of art but convey biblical stories or lives of saints to the uneducated/those who cant read. also as someone with adhd, having something to focus on helps alot(i just want to say were not worshipping the pieces of wood, rather its just a tool we use). i would even go as far as to say statues are ok too(my family is mostly roman catholic so it doesn't bother me) also pls do a video on saints that would be cool ;)
Worth noting that part of the reason why the Early Church had icons was because images were effectively the language of the ancient world. The vast majority of people at that time were illiterate, so the best method for communicating scripture was through icons (i.e the sermon on the mount, the transfiguration of Christ, etc.) This was especially true before the biblical canon was formed.
@@tomtemple69 Our claims are not mutually exclusive, of course the early Church had scripture and was teaching it. The key phrase in my comment is "part of the reason", its not black and white.
@@tomtemple69 So depictions from scenes in the gospels do not convey anything? Let's face it, pictures are a universal way to evangelize so that language is not a barrier. And when I was growing up, even as a Baptist (now a traditional Catholic), the stories from the Bible that I can remember the best were the ones that had pictures for them (Noah's ark, the Nativity, etc.)
Also, is this Minecraft server open to anyone? I go to a very beautiful Baptist Church in real life, and I would love to build it on your server. Or at least, build something very similar to it.
We have the right to depict God in icons, because he came down to us in human form, and Jesus is God. “I do not worship matter, I worship the God of matter, who became matter for my sake and deigned to inhabit matter, who worked out my salvation through matter. I will not cease from honoring that matter which works for my salvation. I venerate it, though not as God." - Saint John of Damascus
@@supermanandbatmanishere did ya’ll forget that God literally asked Moses to construct 2 cherubim statues in the ark of the covenant ?? “Exodus 25:18-21 And you shall make two cherubim of gold; of hammered work shall you make them, on the two ends of the mercy seat.”
did God give that right to everyone? no. when moses went on top of the mountain to talk to God, does that mean we can or have the right to do the same? NO because it was something between God and moses it's as simple as that. this was a pacific demand of God, just because it says this doesn't mean will should to the same nor do we have the right or authority to do so. 2 commandment states that you cant make any images of God or Jesus @@naonaop3531
There are two stained glass windows in the Church I go to, one at each end, it is so tempting to idolise them, especially whilst singing hymns, I keep having to snap myself out of it.
great question by the way, its ether a principle or its relative to the conditions. If its a principle, you've just demonstrated why Catholics are right.
To be honest, I've always identified iconoclasts to be more like Mennonites, Amish, Evangelicals, and even Muslim. Not with most Remformed denominations.
I had the same concern on overcontextualizing on twitter last week and the guy I was DMing with got really offended at the comparison. But it's true, we shouldn't use context to say that the things God forbids are only forbidden in those contexts, like with homosexuality in 1st century Rome or idolatry in ancient pagan cultures. God forbids certain things regardless of their context, so using that reasoning always feels like a loophole. Glad someone else had the same thought!
From a Catholic perspective, God commands the Israelites to not make idols “in the shape of anything in the sky above or on the earth below or in the waters beneath the earth…” Five chapters later he commands them to create images of cherubim for the tabernacle, an item in the temple of worship.
So we’re faced with two options here… Either: any and all art is bad. This is irreconcilable with many other sections of scripture. Or - there is a proper use of images and an improper use of images. Which is what played out in historic Judaism prior to the incarnation and is the historic Christian teaching as well.
As a protestant, I don't believe what you said justifies icon veneration. The difference is obvious : the images of cherubim were made because of God's command, but icons are made without the intervention of God. God didn't tell us to bow down to the icons like he said for the israelites so why do it if it's called a sin in the law ?
@@user-sg1hj2si8s nothing Christians are doing out of love for their creator is outside of the will of God. In fact displaying our love for God within and to his creation is how he commissioned us to commit ourselves to him. As he says in Matthew 25, the love that we show to those human beings who are the image of Christ we show to him.
@@user-sg1hj2si8s it’s about the reasoning that leads people to refuse to venerate icons. Venerating Christ, the icon of God, and venerating other human beings, the icons of Christ, is explicitly commanded in the scripture. The grace of God is actively present and working within his creation. From an Orthodox Christian perspective iconoclasm is a denial of this reality and a descent into Gnosticism (essentially calling God’s creation bad). It’s like a reverse idolatry. Both idolatry and iconoclasm are bad. Gods creation is not bad. It is good. But you can’t go too far with loving creation either that’s where you fall into idolatry. The reason why creation is good is because of God created it and because God works through it. The recognition of the proper place of Gods creation in right order with God is what iconography is all about.
Being raised Baptist and just recently truly getting into my faith , this channel is very informative and a good challenge to my worldview and my thoughts on the church. I want to study more so if anybody has good reading for someone who wants to learn the history of the church but doesn't know where to start and doesn't want to get bogged down by propaganda. Basically I want to hear all the arguments for denominations in good faith and try to understand where I align.
All christians should observe the Sabbath/Sunday. Debating on the exact day itself is basically a technicality, but we should agree on that. That means avoiding non essential work and worldly tasks and devoting yourself to God.
Love your videos, Zoomer. I agree that it is important to, at the very least, be cognizant of images and depictions. Icono-skeptic is a great term 👍. As sinners, many things can become slippery slopes, icons included. We should bear that in mind and always weigh our intentions. Again, great video!
Really good point - as a protestant myself, I've noticed that we tend to approach spiritual things with caution, adopting a mindset of "we should avoid ABC even if it's technically acceptable, as it might lead to XYZ vice." On the other hand, Catholic and Orthodox lean towards the stance "ABC is justifiable and beneficial when used correctly, so there's no way we can condemn ABC." This difference may stem from the fact that Protestants 'lack' the guidance of a priest, universal magisterium, and a 'strong' tradition to rely on, leaving them to navigate these issues independently.
The part where you say that we're not meant to see Jesus because he's in heaven ignores: The appearance at Road to Damascus The appearance to John in revelation The Shroud of Turin The Shroud of Oviedo The Veil of Veronica Early Christian Iconography And most importantly, Eucharistic miracles
eucharestic mirracles are obviously not public revelation. and god personally revealing himself to you is different from making it part of orderd worship
@@a15thcenturysuitofgothicarmor if you think a 6 minute video titled "debunking the filioque" is gonna be high quality apologetics then you might just an idiot
Funny thing is, that the Presbyterian church I went to last Sunday (It was on the Reconquista map) had stain glass artwork depicting Jesus and his apostles. 🤷🏻♂️
Just a correction when you are referring to the second council of Nicea giving a anathema to those who do not venerate icons do you mean this “If anyone does not salute such representations as standing for the Lord and his saints, let him be anathema.” If so then your statement at the start is incorrect, I could not find a anathema like you said.
The bishops of nicea 2 wrote to the queen as to what they meant by the word anathema in the council . They said it meant utter separation from God. They couldn't have been clearer
A relevant note. Catholics would not separate the first and second commandment. They and Lutherans have a different numbering system for the 10 commandments
I loved listening to this and reading the comments. I was feeling apathic and overwhelmed by mundane tasks lately but I was curious about this topic and was really surprised by the fiery debates in the comment section. I didn't know people were that passionate about icons. It lead me to pay more attention and do a bit of research. More and more the Holy Spirit is telling me art is good but worship of the creation rather than the Creator is wrong. As simple as that.
I believe what you mean by "moderate iconoclast" is Iconomachy, the majority view of who history refers to as "iconoclasts". Most people who were labeled iconoclast were not truly iconoclasts. Iconoclasts are people who want to do away with images, while believers in iconomachy are okay with images as long as they are not objects of worship. Big difference that many Christian theologians overlook in church history, especially around the 7th century.
@@redeemedzoomer6053The icons on walls in Orthodox churches which you meantioned in the video are called "frescos" (fresco in singular) and we have one in our Lutheran church, and one in the neighboring village.
6:34 Understanding this commandment as being about 'images of God' is not intuitive; it's a Protestant innovation. The commandment has historically (i.e. for the first 1,500 years of Christendom) been understood as being about making images (idols) and then believing that they are somehow actually housing gods (spirits) that have supernatural abilities. (EDIT: The reason why this was the historic understanding is, simply put, because it's what pagans practiced and it's what the Mosaic Law was differentiating the worship of YHWH from). No one in the history of Christendom has made an ikon or a statue and believed that it was haunted by the spirit of the saint that it portrayed. That would be idolatry.
As a LCMS Lutheran many of our churches have icons in the pastors office or chapel. We also crucifixes and regular crosses mixed so its not only one or the other. My church is Saint Michael's Lutheran Church and we have a huge stained glass of saint Michael the Arch Angel vanquishing the dragon as well as stained glass depicting the Holy Spirit as a dove. We also have literigcal banners with christian symbols.
4:25 so either chose a council that was found to be heretical which was against the tradition of church which existed for centuries or the council which corrected the other and was held to be true for centuries until a few rebels came along and decided what they thought doctrine should be
I currently attend a non denominational church (I’m probably gonna switch to a more traditional church when I live on my own). I don’t think icon veneration is necessary, and I think if someone is not well catechized/gets carried away, they can start to worship saints instead of God, so I wouldn’t do that. However, icons and images of God are absolutely beautiful, and I will certainly adorn my future home with images of Christ and a saint of two.
I encourage you to choose a historic church that is still Protestant! High church/classical Protestantism defined our tradition for the vast majority of the last 500 years, and we need to restrengthen our historic denominations!
As a strong Anglican Iconoclast, thank you for helping me see both sides of the debate, and understand better my Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic brothers and sisters better.
So the literal definition of iconoclast is someone who destroys religious images. It is always amusing to me when people deem themselves iconoclasts, because in most cases it's merely ignorance and people assuming it just means against icons. As an Orthodox Christian of 10 years (I'm 15), I've grown up knowing iconoclasm to mean the destruction of, not just disagreement with, icons. So I'm genuinely curious, to any self-proclaimed "iconoclasts": from where did you hear and adopt the term iconoclast, and would you still use that term knowing the textbook definition? Not trying to insult anybody, just wondering how y'all were exposed to the concept of iconoclasm.
Calvinist Christian here, I actually first learned about iconoclasm in an ancient history class I was taking as a GPA booster (studying engineering = rough GPA) around the time I began converting to Christianity. I'd say I agree with Zoomer that "iconoskeptic" is probably a better word, since I don't agree with destroying beautiful traditional Christian artwork although I personally think there may be conflicts with the Second Commandment in regards to images of Jesus. Beautiful artwork, architecture, and music can point people to Christ as well as inspire Christians to grow in their faith/spread the Word. My belief is that the icons should not be an object of worship, but should instead simply be objects of cultural/historical beauty to preserve Church history point people towards faith.
@@bobbys_projectsI’m surprised that nobody has made complex words for this stuff thousands of years ago (to my knowledge). Im just confused to what the “do not make graven images of basically anything” means.
I have a question. A relative of mine became concerned once about an ornament of a statue of a lion they had, because on a plaque under it it said 'Lion of Judah' and quoted the verse. They worried that was a graven image. What are your thoughts?
What would your feelings about depictions of Jesus in books and similar materials? Even in a church without images of Christ it's common for parents to read their children picture book bibles with depictions of Christ in them, so is that ok?
As a fellow Believer, YTer, and MC player I'd love to join your server.... though I'll admit I had to pause when reading "iconoclast" and put two and five together, so not sure I'd fit in lo. Shalom Shalom! Thanks for continuing to see HIM and share your journey as you do.
@@catfinity8799 Totally! Though for the longest time I thought doxology was the study of Weiner dogs 😂. I'd also probably spend more time making tents where people can get what they need to keep doing amazing things rather than build something massive. Be a total blast though. ^.^
@@deacon6221 I genuinely have no idea. 😂 😆 I know that I love things from all the branches. The beauty of communion (I can't spell ecerist even with autocorrect..) from Catholic, I love the intentional design that tells a story in the structure and images of high churches, the intent to speak through the kochma of skill as much as beauty of the words. I love the relationship invitation focus of others, the community drive of others still. To Love GOD and to Love others in one symphony dance. I love the willingness and even the longing of low church to re-sing the songs and Psalms for each new generation. If I had to put a name on it, I'm closer to a Messianic Jew than anything, I guess. Though I'm not Jewish, I found more truth in JESUS' Bible (the TaNaK, or OT) than I ever have in the religion surrounding HIM. Which is sad because it all points to JESUS, from the Snake Crusher in the second movement (chapter 3) all the way to New Jerusalem in the final movements in Revelation (21 and 22). So, I really don't know what denomination I'd count as, can I say, "HIS" as my answer for what am I? If you have an answer, please let me know, because I'd say "Non-denominational" but between the politics and insanity I've been through with church branches, that's a no. Politics like that make me roll my eyes hard enough to see my own brain, so no clue. I Happy to be here though! The dead don't get to praise, those in Sheol don't get to enjoy the bountiful blessing. Tomorrow is promised to no one so that I'm awake today means HE saw fit to give me the day, so I get to use it to bless others as I am blessed. ^.^ TL, DR: No clue. But I am for The LORD. ^.^ (It's a face in case it's cut off in edit. ^.^)
@@LearndingLife Hey God bless you! I would actually recommend looking into orthodox Christianity. It retains much of the Jewish tradition of liturgy, incense and really seems to be at least visually the true third temple described in the Bible. Our churches have inscriptions on the walls of Cherubim and other biblical figures like Moses did in the Old Testament. Our theology also is a great symphony of Old Testament and New Testament showing how the Old Testament is predictive and the New Testament is fulfillment of the old prophecies. We also use beautiful chants which include the Psalms and the like. We’ve got a rich history as we are the descendants of the churches founded by the first Christian’s in Antioch, Ephesus, Thessaloniki and Corinth along with the rest. The goal of salvation for us is not to simply make it to heaven or to not go to hell, our goal is to achieve theosis (which means to be sanctified by God and his Holy Spirit) and to become like God in the sense that we strive to align our own will perfectly to that of God. I’d urge you just to watch some videos from Father Trenham at patristicnectsr he’s a great guy and really explained orthodoxy well to me. God bless and good day!
You are very anointed of God because there are things that we should really know their significance in other not to go into error. Just like in Proverbs Let your eyes look right on [with fixed purpose], and let your gaze be straight before you. Consider well the path of your feet, and let all your ways be established and ordered aright. Turn not aside to the right hand or to the left; remove your foot from evil. Proverbs 4:25-27 AMPC
Would more iconoclastic leaning Christians be against the Stations Of The Cross within churches? I can’t imagine a church without the Stations as I’m a Catholic and have only ever gone to Catholic churches and one or two COE churches but I guess it depends on their views
Yes, they are. I am in an Anglican group on facebook, and unfortunately it is overrun by presbyterians in disguise. All they ever do is complain about Anglicans who bow and genuflect. I posted a video of my church and they actually called our very large depiction of christ victorious on the cross an idol. They have even called the feast of the Holy Cross an idolatrous feast. They don't even like crosses. These people drive me insane. I can't even watch this video because, Lord forgive me, I despise puritans.
This is off topic from the video, but have you heard of Mike Winger and if so could you respond to his video about why he isn't a Calvinist (I personally found his arguments convincing) Love the vid!
I think that graven or carved images such as statues are wrong and the bibles quite clear but I’m unsure about general images like pictures or paintings. And where in the bible does it say that the sabbath has changed to Sunday?
We don't celebrate the sabbath, because Christ did not rise from the dead on the sabbath. He rose on the eighth day, the first day of the week, Sunday, and in scripture we are commanded to celebrate His Resurrection.
@@miyannapittman5580 he didnt rise on sabbath because he was resting on the sabbath day. what verses say to celebrate the ressurection? I cant think of any but I'm not sure.And either way Celebration of christs ressseruction to changing gods law of the sabbath (which has existed since eden) is a major leap
Here's how to tell which sheep is John Knox: Kill an Enderman while it's holding a grass block. Place the block under John Knox and the other sheep. IIRC John Knox was red? Use a nametag to name John Knox.
I have heard that the point of the commandement is that God tells us: I am not like those other gods you have heard about. I am not in the statue or the locket or the painting as many religions back then believed that their gods come to life when they are depicted or even written about (e.g Hieroglyphs)
Hey Zoomer! I just want to say that I really enjoy your videos! Just one question: where is your background music from? I know you are studying music right now... did you compose it yourself?
3:54 Are you talking about the anathematizations of the Seventh Ecumenical Council? As far as I'm aware, there isn't a claim about damnation being made, it was just an anathema.
At the time anathemas WERE judgements of damnation. Per the contemporary Ordo excommunicandi et absolvendi, anathematizations at the time were either equivalent to or even beyond major excommunications. This was not the denial of the Eucharist and limiting of social engagement with the offender but the complete turning over of the offender to Satan citing Apostolic authority to loose and bind. Per the anathema formula: "Wherefore in the name of God the All-powerful, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, of the Blessed Peter, Prince of the Apostles, and of all the saints, in virtue of the power which has been given us of binding and loosing in Heaven and on earth, we deprive N-- himself and all his accomplices and all his abettors of the Communion of the Body and Blood of Our Lord, we separate him from the society of all Christians, we exclude him from the bosom of our Holy Mother the Church in Heaven and on earth, we declare him excommunicated and anathematized and we judge him condemned to eternal fire with Satan and his angels and all the reprobate, so long as he will not burst the fetters of the demon, do penance and satisfy the Church; we deliver him to Satan to mortify his body, that his soul may be saved on the day of judgment." To show you who else is worthy of anathema, the Declaration of Nicea 2 also anathematized another group of people: Arians. To question icon veneration in any way, shape, or form deemed the same punishmemt and eternal discipline as being the Arch-Heretic Arius himself or his followers.
Surrounded by roman-catholic churches in Europe, art and Christianity has always been inextricably linked to me. I was in the Saint-Jean-Baptiste Cathedral in Lyon when I realized that for the vast majority, this was the only place where they could see these colors and sculptures and hear these resonating sounds - it must have has such a far more significant impact to the people back then. I'm not a fan of the worship of Mary in my denomination, but when I saw the statue of Mary I was absolutely mesmerized. Which isn't to say that the second commandment should be ignored because the icons are beautiful, but I just can't imagine a church without these works. That being said, venerating them is wrong.
When you said that the second commandment (prot commandments) is redundant if it means the same thing as the first commandment, well, that's why we combined the two lol. 14:44
Speaking about Sabbath what do you think of celebrating Sabbath on Sunday, unlike Seventh Day Adventists? Suggestion for next video: *Why Sabbath is on Sunday - KingdomCraft*
Redeemed Zoomer could you make a video about what each denomination thinks of other denominations going to heaven/hell? For example, Lutherans might think that Catholics are saved but Baptists think Catholics go to hell. Or Orthodox think all Protestants are anathema.
Hey man, is your server open for bedrock? It’s fine if it’s not I would just like to join. I really need to put more Christian things in my life. And potentially pick up on some things
What do you think about Eucharistic miracles documented throughout the history in Catholic Church? The last one officially approved dates back in 1997 where host became heart muscle tissue and had white blood cells in there for years (and those dies out after few minutes person is dead). I mean that is pretty much in your face argument for the real presence of our Lord and Savior! :)
As I understand it the Orthodox position isn’t that images represent the human nature of Christ, rather that because God became a living icon He was demonstrating that God can be imaged, which argumentation actually (contrary to Nestorianism) explicitly relies on Jesus being God. TL;DR Jesus is the image of God, therefore there can be images of God. This is the Orthodox position as I understand it.
The second part to the Orthodox position that’s vitally important is that by offering veneration to the images of Christ, you are venerating Christ. This is how by giving to the poor and showing love to other people you are showing love to Christ as it says in Matthew 25. Human beings are the images of Christ.
![Are Icons Idols? [Responding to J.I. Packer's Iconoclasm]](/img/n.gif)
"there is a huge statue right now they (the catholics) love their images" he says as there is a huge statue of himself also in view 😆
😂
had me dying
I didn’t notice that until it was too late 😂 that statue of me was built by my friend in 2016 way before my server was Christian
As Johnathan Pageau would say… “symbolism happens”. 😂
Here’s something a 38 year old dad and his 8 year old son can enjoy together while making dinner.
God bless your family sir.
nice
How was the dinner
i'd like to think he wasn't talking about himself but just being oddly suspific lol@@FlygonkingVGC
Chad move. 😎👉🏻👉🏻
Friend, I feel like you are the single best person on UA-cam in Christianity at avoiding strawman arguments. You are very good at recognizing and respecting different viewpoints.
No, he strawmans Orthodoxy every single time he talks about it.
@@ReplyToMeIfUrRetarded Does he though? He’s not Orthodox so he won’t understand every intricacy, but to say he uses a strawman doesn’t seem right either.
Orthochuds are after you now bro 😨
It's called steelmanning, and it is both good faith as well as effective rhetorically.
@@ek4676 Yes, he does. misunderstanding something is not the same as strawmanning.
Keep in mind that the traditional Jewish listings of the 10 commandments also combine “have no other gods” and “graven images” just like the Catholics and Orthodox. And shortly after receiving the commandments, Moses was instructed to put cherubim statues atop the ark. It’s seems to me that the intent was to not worship the images in place of God, not that the images themselves were problematic.
The Orthodox and Catholic churches use different numbering systems. The reformed tradition and most other protestants use the orthodox one. The Catholics and Lutherans use the one you are referring to
@@JohnTDeckYou’re right, the Orthodox are different, which is surprising to me. Still though, the Jews; who I think should have been a topic of conversation; it is the Torah after all.
More evidence that Icons are not only Christian but Biblical.
@@JohnTDeckthe Jewish one is a different one from the other two. They combine both "don't worship other gods" and "don't make idols" as the 2nd commandment, and also combine "don't covet your neighbour house" and "don't covet you neighbour wife" as the 10th, while the 1st is simply "I'm the Lord your God". The logic could still be the same of the Catholic and Lutheran way though
Yeah, great point, good comment
As a Catholic i really love the way you say your opinion without disrespecting the others denominations! I hope we have more people like you in the future, not agreeing with the others point of view sometimes but still being respectful.
As a reformed Baptist, thank you for confirming he’s not accidentally giving a strawman of your beliefs.
@@loganjackson8764 May God bless you always! 🙏
100% why i listen to this channel. He does a greatt job of giving the information without to much bias. Obviously there is some bias but thats to be expected. He is human afterall
You need to do a tier list of Christian universities
I second this!!
However it should be by dénomination because their would be to many to count
@@-AnimalLover- thanks
And a full tier list of heresies by how bad they are!
TCU has the hottest girls
As a Catholic, when I saw the title of the video, I literally said "Oh boy" out loud.
Yes, me too lmao
me too as orthodox lmao
my first words were “oh nah😮”
Environments have so much of an effect on us.
I side with the beautiful icons personally.
Great point
Beauty is transcendent.
If you’re interested in looking into the shroud I *highly* recommend the podcast about it on Pints With Aquinas with Fr. Andrew Dalton. I’m not Catholic, but I loved that episode and was so enthralled for the whole three hours. It helped deepen my faith in the resurrection.
Pints w Aquinas is amazing
Yes, I am catholic
@@ChimpOnComputer I’m not, just a follower of Christ but I love it too!
@@kamillelord3891Keep listening to him... 😏😏😏
In regards to the Shroud of Turin you should look up the Pints with Aquinas episode with Father Andrew Dalton. Title should be “New Evidence for the Shroud” or something to that effect. I already believed it was a true relic of the Lord’s resurrection, but so much more-so after watching that. Enlightening either way whatever side you come out leaning towards
^
Yes! I just made a comment about this also, it was such an amazing discussion and I still remember gasping when he showed Jesus’ face!
the shroud being true is good but it's shouldn't be the reason for your faith
"blessed are those who have not seen and believe"
The shroud may be the most underrated thing in the Christian world today.
@@longiusaescius2537I agree that we need to have faith but Jesus did a lot of works to prove himself and Luke recorded a ton of them and said it was so that we can have certainty that Christ was lord. Maybe it’s best to leap straight from hearing the lord’s name to being willing to be a martyr, but most people are a process and need to have reasons why they believe in the first place then faith develops with trials.
as orthodox id say icons are a wonderful and necessary part of worship. not only are they beautiful pieces of art but convey biblical stories or lives of saints to the uneducated/those who cant read. also as someone with adhd, having something to focus on helps alot(i just want to say were not worshipping the pieces of wood, rather its just a tool we use). i would even go as far as to say statues are ok too(my family is mostly roman catholic so it doesn't bother me)
also pls do a video on saints that would be cool ;)
Plus, the matter has been decided by a council 1200 years ago and it was a settled matter for 700 years until the protestants came along
What about having no icons?
@@OkPe-ww5rsstill ok, but it is better to have a for concentration and help you to defeat the devil.
idolatry
@@supermanandbatmanishere no we don't worship/venerate the wood ,just the depiction.. like how you respect photos of loved ones
Worth noting that part of the reason why the Early Church had icons was because images were effectively the language of the ancient world. The vast majority of people at that time were illiterate, so the best method for communicating scripture was through icons (i.e the sermon on the mount, the transfiguration of Christ, etc.) This was especially true before the biblical canon was formed.
that just sounds ridiculous
they apostles appointed pastors and elders at churches to communicate the Scripture... plus they had the old testament too
@@tomtemple69 Our claims are not mutually exclusive, of course the early Church had scripture and was teaching it. The key phrase in my comment is "part of the reason", its not black and white.
@@tomtemple69 Humans are visual learners. And you know what they say, a picture is worth a thousand words.
@@comicsans1689 pictures do not convey anything gospel related...
@@tomtemple69 So depictions from scenes in the gospels do not convey anything? Let's face it, pictures are a universal way to evangelize so that language is not a barrier. And when I was growing up, even as a Baptist (now a traditional Catholic), the stories from the Bible that I can remember the best were the ones that had pictures for them (Noah's ark, the Nativity, etc.)
Also, is this Minecraft server open to anyone? I go to a very beautiful Baptist Church in real life, and I would love to build it on your server. Or at least, build something very similar to it.
It is. There’s a video on how to join.
@@hismajesty6272 What’s the name of the video? Haven’t found it yet.
We have the right to depict God in icons, because he came down to us in human form, and Jesus is God. “I do not worship matter, I worship the God of matter, who became matter for my sake and deigned to inhabit matter, who worked out my salvation through matter. I will not cease from honoring that matter which works for my salvation. I venerate it, though not as God." - Saint John of Damascus
He came to LIVE IN MATTER, 2 natures, one from heaven & His temple aka body on earth which He actually left with
idc what he said what did the bible say?
@@supermanandbatmanishere did ya’ll forget that God literally asked Moses to construct 2 cherubim statues in the ark of the covenant ?? “Exodus 25:18-21
And you shall make two cherubim of gold; of hammered work shall you make them, on the two ends of the mercy seat.”
did God give that right to everyone? no. when moses went on top of the mountain to talk to God, does that mean we can or have the right to do the same? NO because it was something between God and moses it's as simple as that. this was a pacific demand of God, just because it says this doesn't mean will should to the same nor do we have the right or authority to do so. 2 commandment states that you cant make any images of God or Jesus @@naonaop3531
There are two stained glass windows in the Church I go to, one at each end, it is so tempting to idolise them, especially whilst singing hymns, I keep having to snap myself out of it.
If I were to somehow go back in time to 20AD and take a photo of Jesus with a camera, does it suddenly become idolatry?
Do you think it's a coincidence that God chose to incarnate into a period of time before cameras existed?
@@redeemedzoomer6053With iconoclasm’s atrocious logic, any picture can be “idolatrous”. even a picture of me, or a friend.
@@ReplyToMeIfUrRetarded rare redeemedzoomer L
great question by the way, its ether a principle or its relative to the conditions.
If its a principle, you've just demonstrated why Catholics are right.
To be honest, I've always identified iconoclasts to be more like Mennonites, Amish, Evangelicals, and even Muslim. Not with most Remformed denominations.
I had the same concern on overcontextualizing on twitter last week and the guy I was DMing with got really offended at the comparison. But it's true, we shouldn't use context to say that the things God forbids are only forbidden in those contexts, like with homosexuality in 1st century Rome or idolatry in ancient pagan cultures. God forbids certain things regardless of their context, so using that reasoning always feels like a loophole. Glad someone else had the same thought!
From a Catholic perspective, God commands the Israelites to not make idols “in the shape of anything in the sky above or on the earth below or in the waters beneath the earth…” Five chapters later he commands them to create images of cherubim for the tabernacle, an item in the temple of worship.
So we’re faced with two options here… Either: any and all art is bad. This is irreconcilable with many other sections of scripture. Or - there is a proper use of images and an improper use of images. Which is what played out in historic Judaism prior to the incarnation and is the historic Christian teaching as well.
As a protestant, I don't believe what you said justifies icon veneration. The difference is obvious : the images of cherubim were made because of God's command, but icons are made without the intervention of God. God didn't tell us to bow down to the icons like he said for the israelites so why do it if it's called a sin in the law ?
@@user-sg1hj2si8s nothing Christians are doing out of love for their creator is outside of the will of God. In fact displaying our love for God within and to his creation is how he commissioned us to commit ourselves to him. As he says in Matthew 25, the love that we show to those human beings who are the image of Christ we show to him.
@@harrygarris6921 But making icons wasn't a command from God so why is there anathema for those who don't venerate in actions ?
@@user-sg1hj2si8s it’s about the reasoning that leads people to refuse to venerate icons. Venerating Christ, the icon of God, and venerating other human beings, the icons of Christ, is explicitly commanded in the scripture. The grace of God is actively present and working within his creation. From an Orthodox Christian perspective iconoclasm is a denial of this reality and a descent into Gnosticism (essentially calling God’s creation bad). It’s like a reverse idolatry.
Both idolatry and iconoclasm are bad. Gods creation is not bad. It is good. But you can’t go too far with loving creation either that’s where you fall into idolatry. The reason why creation is good is because of God created it and because God works through it. The recognition of the proper place of Gods creation in right order with God is what iconography is all about.
Being raised Baptist and just recently truly getting into my faith , this channel is very informative and a good challenge to my worldview and my thoughts on the church. I want to study more so if anybody has good reading for someone who wants to learn the history of the church but doesn't know where to start and doesn't want to get bogged down by propaganda. Basically I want to hear all the arguments for denominations in good faith and try to understand where I align.
All christians should observe the Sabbath/Sunday. Debating on the exact day itself is basically a technicality, but we should agree on that. That means avoiding non essential work and worldly tasks and devoting yourself to God.
Slowly becoming an orthodox
Love your videos, Zoomer. I agree that it is important to, at the very least, be cognizant of images and depictions. Icono-skeptic is a great term 👍. As sinners, many things can become slippery slopes, icons included. We should bear that in mind and always weigh our intentions. Again, great video!
Really good point - as a protestant myself, I've noticed that we tend to approach spiritual things with caution, adopting a mindset of "we should avoid ABC even if it's technically acceptable, as it might lead to XYZ vice." On the other hand, Catholic and Orthodox lean towards the stance "ABC is justifiable and beneficial when used correctly, so there's no way we can condemn ABC." This difference may stem from the fact that Protestants 'lack' the guidance of a priest, universal magisterium, and a 'strong' tradition to rely on, leaving them to navigate these issues independently.
The part where you say that we're not meant to see Jesus because he's in heaven ignores:
The appearance at Road to Damascus
The appearance to John in revelation
The Shroud of Turin
The Shroud of Oviedo
The Veil of Veronica
Early Christian Iconography
And most importantly, Eucharistic miracles
he l\obviously doesn't believe in eucharistic miracles
Unfortunately
eucharestic mirracles are obviously not public revelation. and god personally revealing himself to you is different from making it part of orderd worship
Jesus: Blessed are the pure of heart for they shall see God
Cessasionists, Palamites and iconoclasts be like: No
that doesn't justify icons
*Kyle has entered the chat*
kyle converted like last tuesday and makes really shallow apologetics videos
@@buffcommie942 🧢
@@a15thcenturysuitofgothicarmor if you think a 6 minute video titled "debunking the filioque" is gonna be high quality apologetics then you might just an idiot
I would like to see you do a video about shroud of turin.
Irish Catholics also use the Celtic cross.
Funny thing is, that the Presbyterian church I went to last Sunday (It was on the Reconquista map) had stain glass artwork depicting Jesus and his apostles. 🤷🏻♂️
Just a correction when you are referring to the second council of Nicea giving a anathema to those who do not venerate icons do you mean this “If anyone does not salute such representations as standing for the Lord and his saints, let him be anathema.” If so then your statement at the start is incorrect, I could not find a anathema like you said.
When the word venerate appears in nicea II it’s generally for the word proskynesis, referring to prostration and kissing.
The bishops of nicea 2 wrote to the queen as to what they meant by the word anathema in the council . They said it meant utter separation from God. They couldn't have been clearer
A relevant note. Catholics would not separate the first and second commandment. They and Lutherans have a different numbering system for the 10 commandments
I loved listening to this and reading the comments. I was feeling apathic and overwhelmed by mundane tasks lately but I was curious about this topic and was really surprised by the fiery debates in the comment section. I didn't know people were that passionate about icons. It lead me to pay more attention and do a bit of research. More and more the Holy Spirit is telling me art is good but worship of the creation rather than the Creator is wrong. As simple as that.
I go to a Presbyterian church and we have 19 stain glasses on which shows the ministry of Christ
Agreeeeee !! Well explained justifications
I believe what you mean by "moderate iconoclast" is Iconomachy, the majority view of who history refers to as "iconoclasts". Most people who were labeled iconoclast were not truly iconoclasts. Iconoclasts are people who want to do away with images, while believers in iconomachy are okay with images as long as they are not objects of worship. Big difference that many Christian theologians overlook in church history, especially around the 7th century.
Well no I’m opposed to all images of God
We Lutherans would be the Iconomachs. We are not opposed to icons, but only to their veneration.
@@redeemedzoomer6053The icons on walls in Orthodox churches which you meantioned in the video are called "frescos" (fresco in singular) and we have one in our Lutheran church, and one in the neighboring village.
6:34 Understanding this commandment as being about 'images of God' is not intuitive; it's a Protestant innovation. The commandment has historically (i.e. for the first 1,500 years of Christendom) been understood as being about making images (idols) and then believing that they are somehow actually housing gods (spirits) that have supernatural abilities. (EDIT: The reason why this was the historic understanding is, simply put, because it's what pagans practiced and it's what the Mosaic Law was differentiating the worship of YHWH from). No one in the history of Christendom has made an ikon or a statue and believed that it was haunted by the spirit of the saint that it portrayed. That would be idolatry.
For the Shroud of Turin I would look up Barry Schwartz’s Ted talk and Fr. Robert Spitzer’s presentation.
As a LCMS Lutheran many of our churches have icons in the pastors office or chapel. We also crucifixes and regular crosses mixed so its not only one or the other. My church is Saint Michael's Lutheran Church and we have a huge stained glass of saint Michael the Arch Angel vanquishing the dragon as well as stained glass depicting the Holy Spirit as a dove. We also have literigcal banners with christian symbols.
I just realized that the change from Saturday to Sunday is a reference to the change from death to life
4:25 so either chose a council that was found to be heretical which was against the tradition of church which existed for centuries or the council which corrected the other and was held to be true for centuries until a few rebels came along and decided what they thought doctrine should be
Make a video on the point of judgement day if we go to heaven or hell when we die
I currently attend a non denominational church (I’m probably gonna switch to a more traditional church when I live on my own). I don’t think icon veneration is necessary, and I think if someone is not well catechized/gets carried away, they can start to worship saints instead of God, so I wouldn’t do that. However, icons and images of God are absolutely beautiful, and I will certainly adorn my future home with images of Christ and a saint of two.
“worship of Saints” isnt real. just another made up thing by schizophrenic protestants.
I encourage you to choose a historic church that is still Protestant! High church/classical Protestantism defined our tradition for the vast majority of the last 500 years, and we need to restrengthen our historic denominations!
@@fighterofthenightman1057 why would you want a church defining tradition for 500 years instead of one defining tradition for 2000 years?
Well, I guess the problem is how you catechize people then.
@@user-zi7gd9pn3lbecause I don't agree with the doctrine of catholicism
Personally i see the icons as depiction of history and to remind us of what Jesus did for us
**Minecraft church server exists**
- Freemasons have entered the chat. 😄
bruh
What do iconoclasts think about having nativity scenes up for Christmas and having a little baby Jesus model?
I’m the weird one in my family for thinking we shouldn’t use them. We’re all Baptist though.
I wouldn’t do that myself
I guess I better tell grandma to take down her nativity scene before she ends up committing idolatry...
Spot on here.
As a strong Anglican Iconoclast, thank you for helping me see both sides of the debate, and understand better my Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic brothers and sisters better.
Has anyone built a really ugly contemporary non denominational church building yet?
There’s the Pizza Hut church in non-denominational town
So the literal definition of iconoclast is someone who destroys religious images. It is always amusing to me when people deem themselves iconoclasts, because in most cases it's merely ignorance and people assuming it just means against icons. As an Orthodox Christian of 10 years (I'm 15), I've grown up knowing iconoclasm to mean the destruction of, not just disagreement with, icons. So I'm genuinely curious, to any self-proclaimed "iconoclasts": from where did you hear and adopt the term iconoclast, and would you still use that term knowing the textbook definition? Not trying to insult anybody, just wondering how y'all were exposed to the concept of iconoclasm.
Calvinist Christian here, I actually first learned about iconoclasm in an ancient history class I was taking as a GPA booster (studying engineering = rough GPA) around the time I began converting to Christianity. I'd say I agree with Zoomer that "iconoskeptic" is probably a better word, since I don't agree with destroying beautiful traditional Christian artwork although I personally think there may be conflicts with the Second Commandment in regards to images of Jesus. Beautiful artwork, architecture, and music can point people to Christ as well as inspire Christians to grow in their faith/spread the Word. My belief is that the icons should not be an object of worship, but should instead simply be objects of cultural/historical beauty to preserve Church history point people towards faith.
@@bobbys_projectsI’m surprised that nobody has made complex words for this stuff thousands of years ago (to my knowledge).
Im just confused to what the “do not make graven images of basically anything” means.
I honestly love this! Young men building virtual churches and discussing the things of God. 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
I'm from the u.k. I'm glad you made your church garden our flag.
Can you do a video about what is hell and heaven really like
I have a question. A relative of mine became concerned once about an ornament of a statue of a lion they had, because on a plaque under it it said 'Lion of Judah' and quoted the verse. They worried that was a graven image. What are your thoughts?
do they think the lion statue is a god? if not then no
Calvinism fan vs. Catholicism enjoyer
Vs Orthodoxy Enjoyer
@@ReplyToMeIfUrRetarded Better than a prot that's for sure
What would your feelings about depictions of Jesus in books and similar materials? Even in a church without images of Christ it's common for parents to read their children picture book bibles with depictions of Christ in them, so is that ok?
As a fellow Believer, YTer, and MC player I'd love to join your server.... though I'll admit I had to pause when reading "iconoclast" and put two and five together, so not sure I'd fit in lo. Shalom Shalom! Thanks for continuing to see HIM and share your journey as you do.
He has plenty of Catholics and Orthodox on his server, and he lets them have images. You'll fit in fine.
@@catfinity8799 Totally! Though for the longest time I thought doxology was the study of Weiner dogs 😂. I'd also probably spend more time making tents where people can get what they need to keep doing amazing things rather than build something massive. Be a total blast though. ^.^
What’s ur denomination bro😊
@@deacon6221 I genuinely have no idea. 😂 😆 I know that I love things from all the branches. The beauty of communion (I can't spell ecerist even with autocorrect..) from Catholic, I love the intentional design that tells a story in the structure and images of high churches, the intent to speak through the kochma of skill as much as beauty of the words. I love the relationship invitation focus of others, the community drive of others still. To Love GOD and to Love others in one symphony dance. I love the willingness and even the longing of low church to re-sing the songs and Psalms for each new generation. If I had to put a name on it, I'm closer to a Messianic Jew than anything, I guess. Though I'm not Jewish, I found more truth in JESUS' Bible (the TaNaK, or OT) than I ever have in the religion surrounding HIM. Which is sad because it all points to JESUS, from the Snake Crusher in the second movement (chapter 3) all the way to New Jerusalem in the final movements in Revelation (21 and 22).
So, I really don't know what denomination I'd count as, can I say, "HIS" as my answer for what am I?
If you have an answer, please let me know, because I'd say "Non-denominational" but between the politics and insanity I've been through with church branches, that's a no. Politics like that make me roll my eyes hard enough to see my own brain, so no clue. I Happy to be here though! The dead don't get to praise, those in Sheol don't get to enjoy the bountiful blessing. Tomorrow is promised to no one so that I'm awake today means HE saw fit to give me the day, so I get to use it to bless others as I am blessed. ^.^
TL, DR: No clue. But I am for The LORD. ^.^ (It's a face in case it's cut off in edit. ^.^)
@@LearndingLife Hey God bless you! I would actually recommend looking into orthodox Christianity. It retains much of the Jewish tradition of liturgy, incense and really seems to be at least visually the true third temple described in the Bible. Our churches have inscriptions on the walls of Cherubim and other biblical figures like Moses did in the Old Testament. Our theology also is a great symphony of Old Testament and New Testament showing how the Old Testament is predictive and the New Testament is fulfillment of the old prophecies. We also use beautiful chants which include the Psalms and the like. We’ve got a rich history as we are the descendants of the churches founded by the first Christian’s in Antioch, Ephesus, Thessaloniki and Corinth along with the rest. The goal of salvation for us is not to simply make it to heaven or to not go to hell, our goal is to achieve theosis (which means to be sanctified by God and his Holy Spirit) and to become like God in the sense that we strive to align our own will perfectly to that of God. I’d urge you just to watch some videos from Father Trenham at patristicnectsr he’s a great guy and really explained orthodoxy well to me. God bless and good day!
There is no such thing as moderate heresy!
The nose rule was the funniest part of the icon saga
You are very anointed of God because there are things that we should really know their significance in other not to go into error.
Just like in Proverbs
Let your eyes look right on [with fixed purpose], and let your gaze be straight before you. Consider well the path of your feet, and let all your ways be established and ordered aright. Turn not aside to the right hand or to the left; remove your foot from evil.
Proverbs 4:25-27 AMPC
Please make a video about what you think about Hinduism.
Would more iconoclastic leaning Christians be against the Stations Of The Cross within churches? I can’t imagine a church without the Stations as I’m a Catholic and have only ever gone to Catholic churches and one or two COE churches but I guess it depends on their views
Yes, they are. I am in an Anglican group on facebook, and unfortunately it is overrun by presbyterians in disguise. All they ever do is complain about Anglicans who bow and genuflect. I posted a video of my church and they actually called our very large depiction of christ victorious on the cross an idol. They have even called the feast of the Holy Cross an idolatrous feast. They don't even like crosses. These people drive me insane. I can't even watch this video because, Lord forgive me, I despise puritans.
This is off topic from the video, but have you heard of Mike Winger and if so could you respond to his video about why he isn't a Calvinist (I personally found his arguments convincing)
Love the vid!
I think that graven or carved images such as statues are wrong and the bibles quite clear but I’m unsure about general images like pictures or paintings. And where in the bible does it say that the sabbath has changed to Sunday?
We don't celebrate the sabbath, because Christ did not rise from the dead on the sabbath. He rose on the eighth day, the first day of the week, Sunday, and in scripture we are commanded to celebrate His Resurrection.
@@miyannapittman5580 he didnt rise on sabbath because he was resting on the sabbath day. what verses say to celebrate the ressurection? I cant think of any but I'm not sure.And either way Celebration of christs ressseruction to changing gods law of the sabbath (which has existed since eden) is a major leap
How do I get in the Minecraft server?
how can i join kingdomcraft it says i am not whitelisted
Lets be honest, we all think we are theological geniuses after watching reedemed zoomer.
Not really
I literally become John Calvin every time I watch a video.
No, Read a book dude.
no
I don’t at all lol
Here's how to tell which sheep is John Knox: Kill an Enderman while it's holding a grass block. Place the block under John Knox and the other sheep. IIRC John Knox was red? Use a nametag to name John Knox.
I have heard that the point of the commandement is that God tells us: I am not like those other gods you have heard about. I am not in the statue or the locket or the painting as many religions back then believed that their gods come to life when they are depicted or even written about (e.g Hieroglyphs)
How can I join your Kingdomcraft server ?
Bro called me out 😂 not even 10 seconds in 😂😂
Hey Zoomer! I just want to say that I really enjoy your videos! Just one question: where is your background music from? I know you are studying music right now... did you compose it yourself?
He has said on earlier videos that he did compose the background music himself.
Your server is like how heaven will be like
3:54 Are you talking about the anathematizations of the Seventh Ecumenical Council? As far as I'm aware, there isn't a claim about damnation being made, it was just an anathema.
At the time anathemas WERE judgements of damnation.
Per the contemporary Ordo excommunicandi et absolvendi, anathematizations at the time were either equivalent to or even beyond major excommunications. This was not the denial of the Eucharist and limiting of social engagement with the offender but the complete turning over of the offender to Satan citing Apostolic authority to loose and bind. Per the anathema formula: "Wherefore in the name of God the All-powerful, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, of the Blessed Peter, Prince of the Apostles, and of all the saints, in virtue of the power which has been given us of binding and loosing in Heaven and on earth, we deprive N-- himself and all his accomplices and all his abettors of the Communion of the Body and Blood of Our Lord, we separate him from the society of all Christians, we exclude him from the bosom of our Holy Mother the Church in Heaven and on earth, we declare him excommunicated and anathematized and we judge him condemned to eternal fire with Satan and his angels and all the reprobate, so long as he will not burst the fetters of the demon, do penance and satisfy the Church; we deliver him to Satan to mortify his body, that his soul may be saved on the day of judgment."
To show you who else is worthy of anathema, the Declaration of Nicea 2 also anathematized another group of people: Arians. To question icon veneration in any way, shape, or form deemed the same punishmemt and eternal discipline as being the Arch-Heretic Arius himself or his followers.
how could i join this server?
How to play on the server?
Surrounded by roman-catholic churches in Europe, art and Christianity has always been inextricably linked to me. I was in the Saint-Jean-Baptiste Cathedral in Lyon when I realized that for the vast majority, this was the only place where they could see these colors and sculptures and hear these resonating sounds - it must have has such a far more significant impact to the people back then. I'm not a fan of the worship of Mary in my denomination, but when I saw the statue of Mary I was absolutely mesmerized. Which isn't to say that the second commandment should be ignored because the icons are beautiful, but I just can't imagine a church without these works.
That being said, venerating them is wrong.
When you said that the second commandment (prot commandments) is redundant if it means the same thing as the first commandment, well, that's why we combined the two lol. 14:44
Please do a video on Christian Unity.
What is the IP for the server? Also is it on Java or Bedrock?
Java
God bless
how do i join this server??
how would this relate to movies or tv shows that depict Jesus such as the Passion or the Chosen?
Speaking about Sabbath what do you think of celebrating Sabbath on Sunday, unlike Seventh Day Adventists?
Suggestion for next video: *Why Sabbath is on Sunday - KingdomCraft*
How do you join this server
Redeemed Zoomer is the only youtuber that makes videos that you can watch while eating your food atp
good video but I’m kind of undecided on icons I think they’re cool tho
What is the IP for your server?
Is there anything wrong with the sign of the cross/ should reformed people do it?
I do it
@@redeemedzoomer6053 is there any reformed people or pastors who do it you know of?
Redeemed Zoomer could you make a video about what each denomination thinks of other denominations going to heaven/hell?
For example, Lutherans might think that Catholics are saved but Baptists think Catholics go to hell. Or Orthodox think all Protestants are anathema.
Good video.
Yooo i just realized i was in the chat when he was recording this video at 5:53
Can I join this server?
Can anyone join your guys Minecraft server?
Hey man, is your server open for bedrock? It’s fine if it’s not I would just like to join. I really need to put more Christian things in my life. And potentially pick up on some things
no. Only Java
@@deutschermichel5807 ok thanks
God bless everyone and have a good day ❤
The images of christ and the saints look really good even if you think there a sin or wrong
Christ*
Of course, the Harlot dresses herself in any manner to attract her victims
@@REVNUMANEWBERN you do realize that you’re calling Christ and holy people who devoted their entire lives to following our Lord “harlots”, right?
lol@@REVNUMANEWBERN
12:00 absolutely killed me.
What do you think about Eucharistic miracles documented throughout the history in Catholic Church? The last one officially approved dates back in 1997 where host became heart muscle tissue and had white blood cells in there for years (and those dies out after few minutes person is dead).
I mean that is pretty much in your face argument for the real presence of our Lord and Savior! :)
As I understand it the Orthodox position isn’t that images represent the human nature of Christ, rather that because God became a living icon He was demonstrating that God can be imaged, which argumentation actually (contrary to Nestorianism) explicitly relies on Jesus being God.
TL;DR Jesus is the image of God, therefore there can be images of God. This is the Orthodox position as I understand it.
The second part to the Orthodox position that’s vitally important is that by offering veneration to the images of Christ, you are venerating Christ. This is how by giving to the poor and showing love to other people you are showing love to Christ as it says in Matthew 25. Human beings are the images of Christ.
Me upset when I learn that Zoomer practices Chrustogology (I have no idea what this means)
why is it that my local United church has images of Christ depicted on it's stained glass windows?
Amen❤❤🎉🎉🎉😊😊😊❤