Stove Fan's Achilles Heel and the easy Upcycled Fix
Вставка
- Опубліковано 25 кві 2018
- We show you how to make a MUCH IMPROVED stove top eco fan from junk. It uses a theromelectric generator (TEG) module like others, but contains a fix for the problem of TEG failure making it much more durable.
Stoves overheat from time to time, it happens to the most diligent fire tender. This cooks the TEGs and means they don't last very long. If you make a DIY fan the way I show, you will have overheating protection!
This is still something of a prototype in testing, but results so far are excellent.
For a good deal more build instructions / plans check out the Instructable I wrote: www.instructables.com/id/Impr...
For more background info, check out my earlier DIY design on youtube: goo.gl/QDyifx
For a video about making the fan blades: goo.gl/GavRw7 Or ebay them because they are cheap: ebay.to/36s2i4H
The parts you will need for this project are:
An automotive wax thermostat: ebay $7 - goo.gl/iPkoQi or uk £5 goo.gl/gLiUn4.
An old chainsaw cylinder, ideally at least 48mm (1.9") bore. Scavenge one - you know you can :)
The hot side riser block: any old CPU cooler (the simple lump of aluminium extrusion type is best - no heat pipes etc. needed)
The TEG : the design here uses two, you can get very cheap ones that are actually TECs branded as TEGs (most of the ones here goo.gl/rczuD9 on ebay are like that). Or get ones like this: goo.gl/nsxCwS which are still quite cheap but much better in terms of power output and heat resistance.
Old brass compression fitting: Scavenges some or ebay (goo.gl/U7XFv6).
Video on the experimental sideways burning stove: • Experimental Wood Stov...
Lets Connect!
Patreon: / floweringelbow
My website: www.FloweringElbow.org
FB: / floweringelbow
Music:
"Beachfront Celebration" & "Beach Party" by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
"Sunset" by Kai Engel, "Government funded weed" by Black Ant
"Frog In The Well" by Lucas Gonze, "Lady We Knew" by Cullah, "Tachanka Machine Gun Cart Russia" by Leon Lishner and Friends, "Oecumene Sleeps" by Kai Engel (available at freemusicarchive.org/music/) All CC BY SA 3.0
DISCLAIMER: This video description contains affiliate links, which means that if you click on one of the e-bay links, and then buy it I’ll receive a small commission. This helps support the channel and allows me to continue to make videos like this. Thank you for the support!
Kid, you deserve a lot more subscribers than you have! If you redesign this, I would suggest that you make a foot plate below the assembly. Lock your sliding bolt into that plate. Design it so that the "foot" will lift your entire fan assembly, in a balanced way.
Hi Selador. Thank you for your comment. The next one I make I think I will try your idea and make a balanced lift. Recon the floating look would be nice:) Thanks again, Bongo
Would that transfer more heat to the bolt faster or wouldn't that matter🤷♂️😊
I’ve had an Ecofan for years and never had any issues with it. Directions included with it specifies that the fan should be placed at edge of the stove top in a fashion where it pulls cooler air from the outer edge of the stove and blows it over the hot air over the stovetop . This way the fan’s upper portion is cooled more efficiently. Just my two cents.
Bien dit Andre.
Yup ,of course.
I didn't think,thats what I do.
It was more for me to blow more hot air by being at the back but of course it'll draw more cold👌
I have your sawmill vids in my library. Now I getting a wood fire insert and you are already on heat fans. You are a freaking MacGyver.
Haha. Thanks Terry! Checked out my radiator rocket stove ? ;)
I understood very little of this video but I love watching smart and capable people doing interesting things. Thanks so much.
Thanks Gruntqueen! If it didn't make much sense to you, maybe try my earlier stove fan video - that starts from the beginning... Or check out the instructable here: goo.gl/cU81Eq
Thank u for this comment. I am not alone, the only thing I understood was that those things don’t last 😩
Floweringelbow , I have two.
One is the small ecofan and the second is the later larger unit , both two blade.
I run the wood stove all winter ( sole heat source) and maintain a medium high temp range.
At the corner in front the fan runs steady but not full blast unless I put it directly on.
Ive learned that directly on isnt good , and if I want more air flow I move the fan on the trivet closer in.
Sometimes we run both in different directions.
Weve been off grid for 20 years and these little fans are the ticket to heat dispersion.
Have a great day!
Excellent video editing!
In one of the Douglas Adams books he says something along the lines of "It takes genius to see a bloody obvious answer when everyone else is still scratching their heads and trying to fathom out a workable solution. Many great inventions have been greeted by calls of "Well, what's so impressive about it? I could have done that", but the fact of the matter is that they didn't".
The idea of using a car thermostat as a high temperature cut off was bloody obvious, and I could have done that............ But I didn't think of it. :D
Very neat design mate.
One idea that keeps coming to mind is that the fan goes quicker as the temperature rises, so in theory, if the fan overhung the bottom heatsink it would self regulate by taking more and more excess heat out of the bottom heatsink as it got hotter. It should then just be a case of adjusting how much of the hot side was behind the fan disc and tune the point of equilibrium to be within the TEG's happy range. Granted, if the fire was particularly hot the fans not going to be able to purge enough excess heat, and the idea would rob the whole system of some performance, but it should at least enlarge the temperature window that the unit could survive within.
Thanks so much friend :) I had the same intuition about the fan blowing on the hot side, but without the patience to iterate and test it. Thanks again, Bongo.
I was thinking you would have turned the bottom piece 90° so the fan would draw some air through the fins. It wouldn't be much air but it would increase as it gets hotter and the fan speeds up. Great idea with the thermostat
Thank so much for the info as my peltiers burn out in no time , I am a retired toolmaker so must try something like your setup next time I make one .👍🏻
It had been a while since I had commented, but you reminded me with a ❤️. Watching your project was a pleasure and your can do attitude makes your video high quality. I wish I had a decent drill press like yours with a table for T-bolts.
Good morning William, thank you so much for your encouragement. Yep, the drill press was probably the first machine I got/ renovated for the shop, and I use it a LOT. It was only £50 or so, but needed a bit of work :D
Thanks again, Bongo.
Awesome build man! I was thinking this was a Sterling design at first. Way creative, resourceful and practical.
Hey thanks friend! Yeah loads of people think it's some kind of crazy steam (punk) powered thing :) Thanks for watching!
Ambitious? Yes. Ingenious? Absolutely!!👍 Great work sir.
Good morning Owltracker. Thank you so much for the encouragement. I'm just editing together a video about our experiences of buying, fixing up and abusing a jcb digger, and your comment is handy motivation :)
Peace, Bongo.
First time I've come across your channel, and I must say your enthusiasm is contagious! Cool projects! I'm subscribing.
Welcome aboard Ryan appreciate that :D
My Ecofan from about ten years ago used a bi-metal strip to tilt the unit when it was too hot..and it worked.
doing what needs to be done, thank you my friend! I replaced 3 of those TEG already on our stove fan :D
A friend has one of these stovetop fans. It has a small bimetal strip rivetted in a groove under the base which lifts the unit to sustain sensible temp of the TEGs. Seems to work fine.
Fantastic idea and what great talents and skills you have, very creative well done.
I think the peltier devices don't like to get too hot so maybe reduced the botton surface area but also maybe use a third peltier in series to compensate for the loss of power so basically you are reducing the temperature whilst maintaining power.
Just watching some of your back catalogue, thanks for sharing.
Good stuff. A work of art really. My off the peg stove fan came through the post today and worked for about an hour. The fan tested fine on a 9v battery so it seems that the peltier? is broken already!
Hi Liam. Thanks for your comment. Hard luck on the fan. Guess you could fix it though.
Peace, Bongo.
I bought a stove fan, but mine is Stirling engine driven, bought from Kontax/Vulcan. Only problem is that it is not self starting, so you have to remember to give it a flick if it stops. But it's an engine, with interesting moving bits.
A dozen or so years ago I made a demo unit (I am a retired tech teacher.) out of and old thermoelectric travel fridge, just like you did, it works well enough on top of a cup of hot water, it just spins a wheel.
You have motivated me to have another go and make a stove top fan, years ago I used a two stroke cylinder head as a heat sink for an audio amp. It didn't work very well though.
There is another product on the same lines; a twig burning camping stove with draught provided by a small fan driven by a Peltier unit. I am not sure if the ones I have seen were cheating or not, given that they always seems to include a battery for some reason. Hmm?
Friend, if you liked this you can enjoy the comprehensive plans here: goo.gl/cU81Eq
or check out my other stove fan related vids here: goo.gl/GavRw7
Bloody brilliant mate, and entertaining, thank you for saving me much$$
Awesome video mate. Very well explained and fun to watch.
I love this!!
You might consider making and selling these. All that ingenuity and a different look than other fans.
Love the stove too. They're kind of steam-punk. I have a couple old blue pressure tanks, but they're going to become "minions" to go by my mailbox. One tall and thin, the other short and stout.
Cheers!
Magic TEG plus magic levitational thermostat equals ecosuperfan - wooo!
Excellent use of spare parts and excellent use of lateral thinking! I subbed.
Thanks for the encouragement Stevie!
Using thermostats for a mechanical temp adjustment is a great idea, and the cylinder head is a really nice touch. As far as I understand it (which isn't far), it's not the temp that the stove top gets to that's the problem, it's the temperature differential across the peltier. So one way to increase the efficiency, and lower the risk of failure, might be to try for greater separation of the hot and cold sides. If you can get the fan motor and the cold side further out into cool air, and shield it from the radiated heat of the stove-pipe, I reckon you'll see even more progress.
Thats why the top is from an old engine. Bigger heat capacity (cooler) and the fan is on the top (cooling the top radiator).
Good thinking with the auto thermostat, lad. Perhaps a setup with 2 thermostats, one on either side, with stabilizer feet at the bottom to prevent tipping. In that way the entire cold side heat sink could be lifted from the stove top. Just an idea
I really love this idea with motor cylinder head great idea.
A wish my head worked like yours. Great video thanks for sharing 👍
Bravo. I really love cleverness and ingenuity in people.
Thanks friend. Means a lot to me :D
I had the opposite problem.
Having a stove with soapstone top and sides the foot of the fan didn't get quite hot enough, as the conductivity of the soapstone is pretty low.
I made a Z-shaped bracket from brass sheet metal, one end fits under the top plate and is pressed by the weight of the stone top onto the steel top of the stove, the other end protrudes from the side of the stove and the fan is fixed with four small screws to the brass, some heat conductive grease is used in between.
Now the fan hangs sideways from the stove top, and this makes for better cooling of the cold side.
As I got still not enough fan speed I removed a gear that drives the oscillation function, I had the oscillation switched of but the worm gear on the motor shaft driving the first gear causes still quite some friction, worm drives have high friction losses.
Now the fan has decent speed and fires up on its own.
The bi-metal strip at the bottom of the foot can't lift the fan anymore because the foot is screwed to the brass bracket but that doesn't matter as even with the stove going full bore the temperature stays below 150°C.
He's observant, a problem solver, and FUNNY. (Did he say "I'm losing the will to live" while trying to completely smooth the block of copper?)
Hey Sonja Lewis, thanks you for the comment. I believe I did say that - wasn't quite true, but I am partial to a bit of exaggeration from time to time ;)
@@FloweringElbow I love it! As a former mechanic, I never knew quite how to express the feeling that came over me during such tedious work. You summed it up perfectly.👍.
Very creative, and well executed idea. You rock!
Appreciate that friend 😀
Such an elegant and robust solution :D
Well done 👍
Well done mate
Great job, usefull tip for tapping, put the tap in the battery drill, concentrate on keeping it square and you can reverse out as well.
Thanks Steven :)
Great idea 💡 👍
A clever idea and a nice video Thanks for that
Well done!
Great content!
If you decide to make something similar using a cylinder head for sale, I'd be interested. Awesome job Sir!
Thank you for that. I found it really interesting. I'll be making one ov those. X
Cool. Let me know how it goes ;)
Elegant solution to common issue. Love it. Just maybe a smidge to heavy on the thermal paste. Lol
Thankyou for creating this video... I've learned loads.
My pleasure, thanks for watching and commenting :D
Very nicely done 👍
Many thanks
Thought about doing this but you did it,brilliant thank you 😊 and it looks tne nuts👌👍
that's a very cool drill press
Thanks :)
Very good
Dammm dude thats awsome 😀 thanks for the video
Very nice, fiddling with these myself. I have a shop bought unit and it has a bi metallic strip on the bottom that lifts it up when it gets too hot. Clever eh? I'm going to incorporate it into a fan I'm building with multiple peltiers 😂
Hi cocospops :) Yeah, the bi-metallic strip approach is simple and cool. Would love to see your progress on this. Happy making.
Thank you, live long and prosper.
Was thinking, if your base was rotated 90 degrees, and maybe a slightly larger diameter fan, you could get a little air moving through that heat sink on the bottom, and help keep it from overheating.
This is AWESOME!
Thanks friend.
Classic british shed engineering elegant as
Chaotic video and project overkill.
Certainly sums up most of my projects! :-P
Happy Xmas friend.
I really enjoyed this video. Very informative too.
Hey, thanks VF. You have a wood stove for such a fan?
Peace, Bongo.
@@FloweringElbow As a matter of fact, I have a wood stove but need a fan. Flowering Elbow, can you help me in that matter ???? Thanks a bunch and look forward to hear from you soon. VF. peace to you my friend Bongo.
@@victoryfirst2878 Hi VF, Cool cool. Well I guess I can help in that I can offer you plans of how I made it. Here's a link to loads of info if you want to make one: www.instructables.com/id/Improved-Stove-Top-Fan-from-Junk/
hi , i visited the website of the factory that makes these peltier elements , and they make peltier that resist a mutch higher temperature , they are more expensive but also produce more electricity , greetings from belgium
Hi Steven, thanks 😊
I love the idea, but what could make it a bit more efficient would be to mount some sort of bar with 4 legs to lift the entire heat sink off the stove. This way it cools down a bit faster and pretty much maintains a more even speed.
1 thermostat at each corner
A regular brass stove trivet would work well to lift the fan just enough, while still keeping the heat conductivity. Cheap, and easy. :)
very cool. If I only had the time. But without having any parts I need for this build I would have to be Very creative
Good morning friend, thanks for the positive comment. yes, if you are creative I think most of this can be salvaged - the TEG and the fan blades are the hard bits. On the plus side you can pick up a TEG from e-bay fro only a few $. Or look out for a scrap mini fridge - they often have em in.
Incidentally I am just uploading a new video about boosting creativity ;) and seeing your channel reminded me how informative my early years making RC racing cars with my dad was...
Happy racing, Bongo.
@@FloweringElbow Aww thanks man, I created that channel for my 9 year old . Its funny But he asks when we can make more RC videos and post them to TB and get subscribers . I think we have whopping 20. Anyways keep up the good work FloweringElbow
Brilliant!!!!!!!!!
Good afternoon Jim, thanks for the comment friend, and sorry for the late reply. Your encouragement means a lot to me :D
great video
new subscriber
cheers
Awesome, thank you! Bit late a reply I know. Your comment slipped through somehow ;)
I put my fan on a trivet at the coolest corner of the stove.
Ive had mine for about eight years.
Interesting, does it go fast in such a cool place Nerol?
hmm for flattening maybe velcro a random orbital sander to the coppper plate ?
I think you should market that your a smart feller
i was thinking bimetal from iron but thermostat is genius and the chainsaw head and cylinder just beautiful
Good afternoon Chris. Thank you for your encouraging comment :D
Best of luck if you go ahead and make something similar.
@@FloweringElbow if i make something worth mentioning i will sent it to you nice job again
Could you add springs under each bolt between the upper cooling cylinder and lower heatsink there eliminating the need to fully tighten each bolt? The idea is to give room for the copper plate to rise up a bit creating an air gap for additional overheat protection. If this would work then the entire module could still lay flat on the stove dissipating heat more evenly.
I would have gone with a Stirling engine concept. but I like this. Definitely not something I would have thought of.
My fan does not manage to blow into the room. The air stream around the oven is stronger and stops the air from the fan. But it is nice to look at :)
add a cylindrical disk recessed into the fins on the bottom and attached to the bolt so when it pushes down it lifts the entire unit up? would that help for further heat management
Paraffin wax is the thermostat hydraulic piston pusher & candles are often made of it?
Would be worth while
making simpler devices?
I enjoy the video, and your enthusiasm to for the experimentation and the follow up with the heat sensors to know if it really is working right.
I plan on building 4 of these all with the thermostat feature. I starting scrounging at every friends pile of junk at their barns when I visited this past 2 weeks. I now have a chainsaw block and 7 computer CPU heatsinks , 1 dvd motor, and 4 thermostats. I have the rest of the parts on order.
Question 1: of them say 190 to 195F on them and I think that is just pushing it too far. I'd like to know if you'd use these free 190 to 195 F thermostats, compensate for them somehow or really get 160F or 180F if I want to give them to someone who won't like repair them if they melt. What do you recommend?
Question 2: know if getting copper bars is important or just steel for the nice flat components.
Question 3 If you'd keep the square space on the bottom of the CPI heat sinks or you'd grind that off for more contact to the heat sink for some reason the hot or cold side
Question 4: how would you mount it on the flue if the top of the stove is round?. I plan on making 4 of these so I want to do it right.
Sparky in Goodrich MI USA Jan 11 2021
Hi Harry. Good luck with your build. Questions:
1. I'm not sure how you would compensate to make the thermostat operate at lower temps sorry. I think that's what you were asking - hope I read that right? If you want the assembly to raise off the stove top sooner mount the waxstat lower down the hot side heat riser, closer to the stove top...
2. Copper is a much better conductor of heat, so works better as the cold side heatsink. It matters less underneath...
3. Depends on the dimensions... Don't know.
4. I guess you want to make a semi-circular mounting piece as part of the base? You'll work something out...
Best of luck, let me know how it goes.
Peace, Bongo.
Maybe you could use CPU silver between the Peltier and the copper to conduct heat better. 👍
Sorry for a commenting on older video but we have one and the bearing inside the little motor it's one of the more expensive ones it's a single motor for bladed brass fan and God it makes a god-awful racket
Genius
the wood stove fan looks like a good use for a stirling engine and it would solve the overheating problem.. I bet you could make one.
Might be a project for the future:)
They're out there, and work well. Like the warpfive twinspeed myself, and the vulcan is nice too.
Just wondering if larger fan blades, extending to very near the surface of stove, with heat sink fins oriented with direction of air flow would accomplish the same result? I love how you think outside the box!
I certainly think that would help! I have tried that on some of the ones I have made and they seem to last longer.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you're problem was overheating wouldn't it be better to make the heat transfer on the hot side as inefficient as possible and the cold side as efficient as possible?
I have a stovefan....was wondering if there was a way to increase the temp difference between bottom and top of the peltier , and if so, woould it make a noticeable difference on amount of air the fan blows out ? For example, I was thinking about adding a containment system for the very top of the aluminum heat sinks, to allow me to fill it with water, which should create a bigger temp difference ?
I was thinking can i put this in my attic in my house? would it run the fan to push the air out of the attic? would this fan work in an oven? I'm informed that the attic gets up to 120f degree.
Any bi metal can do it, just fasten the 2 together length wise. Variations can be exaggerated by cooling or heating before fastening together.
Hi gentelbenn. Bi metal was my first though. But the wax stat seemed to snuggle discreetly in the housing nice. Would still like to try a bit metal version though.
What's your thought about adding the thermostat to the ones bought. A great review also. I wonder if one could take a piece of aluminum block if found lucky and make one from that.
Hey Robert. I dont actually have any first-hand experience with the commercial ones with thermostats you can get these days, so can't say what they are like - good that they are adding protection now though.
I don't see why one couldn't make from a solid alu block, though I guess you'd want to machine fins into it to increase the surface area for heat disipation.
Вы бы ещё в качестве музыкального сопровождения поставили бы "Марш артиллеристов" :)
Хаха да спасибо за комментарий друга. :D
Wow, that's cool. I know this is a very late post, but I just found you channel- and subscribed! What do you think is the maximum, average temperature for the Peltier devices before they fail? Can you make a small Air conditioner, using the Peltier devices?
BTW, I really miss my "Wolley-pulley(s)." The UK is the only place that makes them entirely out of wool.
Good evening VO, thanks for getting in touch. I think it's probably about 150C - but depends on the particular TEG you use.
I see no reason one couldn't build a little AC from them...
"Figgity Figs,... Great Job!"
Good design for a proto type. I have not studied your homemade fan or what type of motor it is running, yet. Auto thermostats can go to about 300-450°F under steam conditions without the wax button bursting. The problem is it detentions the spring from too much heat work. I have a better method imo to try on your base mount.
Thanks Ken. Would like to hear it? The good thing about this system is that the wax 'stat Should never go much above 200 as it gets pushed away from the stove well before that...
Question: which is the top and bottom face of the TEG/peltier plate? I have a new one that has printing on one face and not on the other, and it has a red and black wire insinuating a POS and a NEG way to place it. As I want my fan to turn the correct way, in short, which side is UP when I lay the new pad in place? How do I ensure the energy is travelling the proper direction? My old fan peltier has two black wires and no printing anywhere... so no guide that I can see. Thank you, Chris.
Hi Chris. Good question! It's a problem. In the past I have just rigged it up, and give some heat to one side and visually check the direction of rotation. Not very technical, but works... Best I have I'm afraid. Good luck!
For a flat try the glass out of an old refrigerator shelf or a scanner window glass from a broken printer scanner combo.
Nice tip Larry, thanks.
Excellent idea and video.
All parts scavenged and TEG bought. Before I assemble how reliable have you found it?
Good morning David. Thanks for the comment. As it has over temp protection it should reliable. I gave this away some time ago so cant say for sure if this particular one is still going but I haven't heard otherwise :D
put a piece of injection molding insulation board between.
Wouldn't it melt?
Congratulations. where you buy table drill and what is model?
Thanks, The drill is a Meddings, an old British make. I got it second hand. It started as three phase, but I found a skipped treadmill and converted it to use the motor of that - much more powerful than the original. If your interested I blogged about it when I did it: www.floweringelbow.org/2009/tools/pillar-drill-modding/
you could just attach an additional temp heat sink when dealing with larger hotter fires
True, but then they often happen went you don't expect it (unless you're a vigilant fire master!).
I have two questions:
1- Given that the objective is to move the heat to the room, wouldn't it be a better way to have the fan blow on the heatsink that is in contact with the stove?
2- Where did you get your jumper?
Cheers!
2. Jumper - army surplus store in UK,
1. Possibly/ probably.
Thanks for watching :)
Привет. Это всё очень классно и интересно. Но, наверно, значительно легче купить элемент Пельтье, который будет выдерживать более высокую температуру?!..
Благодарим! Удачи!✊👍
I would have started at like a 180grit, but cool idea
Yeah, that would have been sensible 🙄!
I was interested by the wood heater . did you make it? if so would you be interested in doing a vid about it.
He has a video on that. Just check out his woodburning playlist....
That's such a nice stove fan. I really love the industrial-salvaged-parts design en the way it operates. Would it, by any slim chance, be for sale? :D If so, please PM me about the pricing. Thanks!
Hi Bram, I don't have that particular one is anymore. I could make one for you... Will PM you with details.
Cancel that, UA-cam don't have that feature anymore. You can find my contact. in the about section.
@@FloweringElbow I've sent you an email. Thanks for responding to my comment.
with a sterling engine, you shouldnt get the overtemp issue. More moving parts though.
I wonder if you could use a bit of Shape Memory Alloy, maybe wire, to operate a kind of lever to lift the thing....?,,
Interesting idea!
My little stove fan has a bimetallic strip in a rebate under the base... too much heat and it bends, breaking contact with the stove top...
You can make yer own bimetallic strip by riveting a steel strip to an aluminium strip... the aluminium expands more than the steel & as they are fixed together the strip bends... 😎👍☘️🍺