THE SHINING and LOLITA - how they connect (film analysis by Rob Ager)
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- Kubrick was limited by the censors when making his film adaptation of LOLITA, but later he managed to bypass the censors when placing the same horror of abuse themes in THE SHINING. In a way The Shining is a remake of Lolita.
Full version of this video, titled LOLITA AND THE REINVENTION OF STANLEY KUBRICK is available to my Patreon supporters (sign up here / robager ) and can also be ordered as a digital dl on my site www.collativele...
Written, edited and narrated by Rob Ager of Collative Learning.
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BTW folks, an extra bit of info that's quite interesting. Murder by Decree, the James Mason film about Jack the Ripper, was being shot in the same studios as The Shining. When I asked in the Kubrick Archives to see the blueprints of the hotel sets (which further confirmed the spatial impossibility of the hotel layout) several of the set blueprints for the Jack the Ripper murder scene streets from Murder by Decree had been stored with The Shining hotel blueprints and had been kept in Kubrick's warehouse together ever since. (Note: please don't post replies to this pinned comment that aren't related to the comment. post them separately, thanks.)
One wonders what other misfilings may yet be uncovered...
Is there a video of you (Rob) , going through the Kubrick archives? If not... What about a 360/vr/4k gopro series of you going through it? That'd be sick maestro 🙏
@@hoshiref They don't allow cameras in there unfortunately. Otherwise I'd have come out with video and photos of all the good stuff I'd looked into. Tried to get permission to get copies of some documents, but was denied and the curator said he wasn't allowed to tell me who denied permission.
@@collativelearning WOOOOW you are the absolute real deal.
I love that you never take no for an answer.
You always go deeper and deeper in everything you do , escalating as far as possible to get the knowledge you seek... You are a huge inspiration, thank you maestro 🙏
The Kabbalistic Sephiroth mindset in relation to Stanley Kubrick's film "The Shining" can be explored by examining the connections between the film's themes and the Sephiroth, as well as utilizing gematria and emanations. However, it's important to note that "The Shining" is not explicitly based on Kabbalah or the Sephiroth, and any interpretation linking the two is subjective and open to individual analysis. With that in mind, let's explore a potential interpretation:
Keter (Crown):
Keter represents the divine will and unity. In the context of "The Shining," one could interpret the Overlook Hotel as a symbol of divine will, as it exerts a powerful influence over the characters. The pursuit of perfection and immortality, which is prevalent in the film, could be associated with the Keter's idealized state.
Chokhmah (Wisdom):
Chokhmah symbolizes wisdom and creativity. In "The Shining," the character of Jack Torrance could be seen as embodying Chokhmah's energy. As Jack becomes increasingly obsessed with his writing and succumbs to madness, it can be seen as a reflection of the creative and destructive aspects of Chokhmah.
Binah (Understanding):
Binah represents understanding and intuition. In the film, Wendy, Jack's wife, displays a level of understanding and intuition as she begins to recognize the danger and instability surrounding the Overlook Hotel. Her attempts to protect her son, Danny, can be linked to Binah's nurturing and protective qualities.
Chesed (Mercy):
Chesed represents compassion and mercy. In "The Shining," Danny possesses the ability to shine, which allows him to perceive and communicate with supernatural forces. His attempts to reach out to the hotel's cook, Dick Hallorann, for help can be seen as an expression of Chesed's compassionate nature.
Geburah (Strength):
Geburah signifies strength, justice, and discipline. In the film, Jack's descent into madness and the subsequent violence can be associated with the destructive aspects of Geburah. His actions demonstrate the uncontrolled and extreme application of strength.
Tiferet (Beauty):
Tiferet represents beauty, harmony, and balance. The visually stunning cinematography and meticulous attention to detail in "The Shining" could be seen as an expression of Tiferet. Kubrick's pursuit of aesthetic perfection in his filmmaking aligns with Tiferet's qualities.
Netzach (Eternity):
Netzach symbolizes eternity and victory. In the film, the concept of eternity is explored through the cyclical nature of events in the Overlook Hotel. The recurring patterns and the idea of trapped spirits could be associated with Netzach's eternal nature.
Hod (Glory):
Hod represents glory, intellect, and analysis. The film's themes of isolation, psychological exploration, and the unraveling of the human mind align with Hod's qualities. Jack's descent into madness and the exploration of the subconscious could be seen as an intellectual journey.
Yesod (Foundation):
Yesod signifies the foundation and the realm of dreams and illusions. In "The Shining," the hotel itself can be seen as a representation of Yesod, as it blurs the line between reality and illusion. The shifting architecture and surreal sequences contribute to the dreamlike atmosphere of the film.
Malkuth (Kingdom):
Malkuth represents the physical world and material reality. In "The Shining," the physical space of the Overlook Hotel represents Malkuth, as it serves as the backdrop for the characters' experiences. The hotel's physicality and its impact on the characters
Here's a breakdown of the Kabbalistic Sephiroth mindset in relation to the main characters of "The Shining":
Jack Torrance:
Keter (Crown): Jack's pursuit of perfection and immortality in his writing can be associated with the idealized state of Keter.
Chokhmah (Wisdom): Jack's creativity and descent into madness embody the creative and destructive aspects of Chokhmah.
Geburah (Strength): Jack's violent actions and the uncontrolled application of strength align with Geburah's qualities.
Hod (Glory): Jack's exploration of the subconscious and psychological unraveling can be seen as an intellectual journey associated with Hod.
Wendy Torrance:
Binah (Understanding): Wendy's understanding of the danger and instability surrounding the Overlook Hotel aligns with Binah's qualities of understanding and intuition.
Chesed (Mercy): Wendy's attempts to protect her son, Danny, and her compassionate nature can be associated with Chesed's qualities of compassion and mercy.
Danny Torrance:
Chesed (Mercy): Danny's shining ability and his attempts to seek help from Dick Hallorann reflect Chesed's compassionate and merciful nature.
Yesod (Foundation): Danny's connection to the spirit world and his experiences in the hotel align with Yesod's qualities as the realm of dreams and illusions.
Dick Hallorann:
Chesed (Mercy): Dick's role as a helper and mentor to Danny, providing guidance and protection, reflects Chesed's compassionate nature.
Tiferet (Beauty): Dick's wisdom and his role in illuminating the beauty and supernatural aspects of the shining ability align with Tiferet's qualities of harmony and balance.
Everybody in my theater cracked up at the "light of my life" line when I saw the movie in it's original run, because the Debbie Boone smash hit syrupy ballad "You Light Up My Life" had been dominating radio airplay for three years! I wonder if Kubrick knew this when he cribbed the line from Lolita for The Shining. He apparently didn't know that Nicholson's "Heeeeere's Johnny!" adlib was from The Tonight Show, a catchphrase everybody in America would have known, but by then Kubrick had been living in England for several years and away from American television.
It should be noted, of course, that "Light of my Life"🎶 is THE most wholesome song in popular music. It's practically a church song disguised as a pop hit.
For shizzle! I saw TS in the drive-in with my dad (who was "Cool Dad" because he would take me to films his ex wife, who I called "mom" would not ) as a ten year old. And you are absolutely correct, there was a point in time, right before The Shinning, in which turning your radio on meant you would immediately hear either "Light up My Life" or " Make My Brown Eyes Blue" 🤣😂😂😂😂
It's no secret there are multiple layers to the film,thanks in no small part to Agers work. These analyses demonstrate why the film is so subliminally effective . I definitely believe there are no random synchronicities in Kubrick's work
Wow this is one of the best comments I've ever read, thank you.
@@elconquistador364 specially after learning that there's a hidden chess game within the book that Kubrick decoded and wrote back to Nabokov .... Mindblowing to have read the challenge between the lines, therefore, one can only read Kubrick with this in mind.
Always a good day when there’s a Rob Ager upload
Agreed!!!
Yup!
Word On That:)
Definitely
I needed this today. Always great analysis...
I love your Kubrick content! Always happy when there is a new upload 👌
Interesting! Also heard Mason was invited onto set because Kubrick's mum wanted to meet him so much.
Weird how that ties into this theme without much of a stretch…
Eagle-eyed as always Mr Ager! I love the bit during the staircase scene where Jack sprouts demon horns made out of background sofas!
Well spotted!
Rob Ager the Paul McCartney of UA-cam film analysis videos. The best in the business
You mean he was replaced by a lookalike? 😄
We don’t have Stanley around, but thank god we have you to help us see these things.
He was a genius so far beyond anyone else and I’m glad he put it into film.
These videos always blow my mind!
Great insight, thank you. The theme of Jack as the abusive dad obviously plays out at the start and he seems sorry for what he did and blames it on the booze, I think. The hotel spirits within turn what was a dad trying his best with his own problems, into the very worst version of himself, ready to abuse and murder his family.
It's interesting that both Humbert and Jack are private high school English teachers who are writing novels, abuse their children and try to murder their wives, but can't do it.
Yeah, the writer and school teacher parallels are significant.
Lolita is entirely from Humbert's perspective and he never regards her as a child, let alone his own child.
@@babs420th9 So?
@@nickd4310 Humbert never sees Lolita as anything other than a sex object to conquer. Certainly not as his child. We know this because he's telling it straight to us. So the parallel isn't quite right, even though there are similarities, as you pointed out.
I also disagree about Rob's interpretation of Shining being primarily about child SA, like Lolita. This because Jack Torrance is a short-tempered, physically violent and a not very polished man. Kubrick puts a lot of emphasis on Jack's physical strength while Humbert get by as a sleazy and pretentious "man of culture". The power dynamic is entirely different.
@@babs420th9 I realize that Lolita is based on a book purported to be written by Humbert Humbert and thst he is an unreliable narrator. But Jack Torrence to a lesser extent narrates his story to Lloyd and we don't know how much of what Jack sees is in his head. If you believe the "there were no ghosts" explanation, then you are watching Jack's narrative.
However, they are both aware of society's expectations for their behaviour toward their children. A court isn't going to forgive Humbert because in his mind Dolores was a consenting adult.
Both men also btw plan to murder their wives, but are unsuccessful. I am not saying it is the same story, but that there are parallels.
I agree it's far-fetched to read anything into Jack's treatment of Danny than the one incident as mentioned in the film. But I guess everyone fills in their own background story.
outstanding analysis again, great parallels between the bathroom/shower scenes. I never noticed that before. Mr Ager's attention to detail consistently blows me away. so hyped for the Lolita content, can't wait to see the full video. as a filmmaker myself starting out, this channel is truly a wealth of knowledge for me. I think there are two ways of going about making contraversial content. The only way I had ever thought about was the way Coppola did, like with Apocalypse Now, when he turned down military funding in order to keep the script true to his vision. The way Nabakov and Coppola and The Clash did it. To say "Screw the Man" and be as blatant as possible no matter what. But I have found out through watching Mr Ager's analyses that there is a second way - the Kubrick. To hide and encode your contraversial, anti-establishment messages subliminally, to be communicated to wide audiences under the level of awareness, and be discovered by passionate fans later. This way, you get "The Man" to pay for your "Screw the Man" message, and that's an even better stab in the final analysis, innit? ;) Thanks again Mr Ager for your inspiring work.
"Kubrick is a great friend, it's just that his friendship can be kind of.. scary" - James Mason probably
Just when I thought there were no more secrets of this film to be unearthed, Ager delivers again. Fascinating parallels and no way are they coincidences in my opinion.
I also noticed an interesting detail in the movie poster title letters: The 2 smaller case i letters seem to mirror the twins - THE SHiNiNG. Never noticed that before.
Many people have made parallels to the mental health difficulties that Sue Lyon had in her life and career post Kubrick to the mental health issues Shelly Duvall has. Also think it was remarkable James Mason was in Salem’s Lot which was the most recent Stephen King adaptation before The Shining.
FACE THE MASTER !!!! YOUR FAITH AGAINST HIS FACE !!!!
To be fair, mental illness is nigh universal in Hollywood.
Roman Polanski's famous SA occurred in Jack Nicholson's hot tub.
This was fascinating and fun, because they are two of my favorite films. Plus, this helps me to see the evidence of Jack's abuse of Danny, which is much more subtle. Thank you!
I would recommend you buy the Taschen The Shining book. The information and first hand knowledge you will learn about The Shining is second to none. It also comes with an annotated screenplay. It will blow you away Rob.
I get truly excited when I see Rob post. Love your videos Rob!
Predators around childrens it's a common theme in SK movies. Lolita, Shinning and Eyes Wide Shut are deeply connected.
Also interesting is that in that very "behind the scenes" scene with Nicholson meeting that actor is that directly afterwards Nicholson laments that "as a celebrety you meet more people in a month than other people in their lifetime" almost like he didn't really care about meeting that guy lol
Haha yes he did.
Fantastic video, Mr Ager. I never noticed the echoes of Lolita in The Shining before. 🎬📽🎞
This is an interesting take on the shining. The playgirl magazine Jack was reading in the lobby of the overlook while waiting to be interviewed, had an article about insest in it.
I don’t know if you mentioned this in the full video, but the curtains in Humberts bedroom are the same design as the ones in the Torrences living quarters. Thats pretty definitive evidence as to their metaphorical connection.
Didn't mention it, but I put that in my notes on Lolita.
Btw rob thanks so much for continuing these analyses vids, you completely changed the way a lot of us watch films. @@collativelearning
Open source Kubrick
Thank you for this very significant detail 🙏
I also think, that there is a crossover between Humbert Humbert and Jack Torrance both going into a bathroom with one perception only to have that perception changed. For Jack it’s seeing the beautiful woman at first before revealing the old hag (which also correlated to Danny’s perception of him, and how that changed when he went to get his fire engine) And for Humbert Humbert it’s going into the bathroom to kill Charlotte, only to later be in a bath himself which again symbolises a change in perception from beauty to a sexually abusive monster.
It still fascinates me that of all his movies, Kubrick made an accompanying 'making of' documentary for The Shining which, in its own subliminal way, brings our attention to some of the more cryptic themes and elements in the film Itself. The making of is like a companion piece made to help you decyper the movie itself. But why The Shining specifically I wonder?!
Cuz his daughter made it she was only 17 at the time. Guess her dad wanted to include her.
@@aWomanFreed He had her do it so he'd have full control of his 'guide book'. If he was so keen on his daughter taking part in his film making, where's her making of Full Metal Jacket, or Eyes Wide Shut?! Nah, the boring, 'it's a coincidence' answer doesn't cut it here, but maybe you're new to Rob's work.
@@davidlean1060 oh please. She was a kid trying to learn about what her dad did. He didn’t need to make documentaries for any of his films, and his daughter im sure had her own life to live. But hey if u want to be some fanboy of “Robs work” and don’t think for yourself at all, have at it.
Those black and white photos are very important to decoding the movie. Same with thee numbers ad jumbles of 237.
The theme of abuse is also present in 2001, Barry Lyndon and definitely EWS.
I've just rewatched Lolita looking for parallels to The Shining and something crossed my mind that I'm not sure if it is just coincidence or on purpose but the hotel room Humbert and Lolita stay in after he picked her up from camp was 242 and the evil room in the Shining film was changed from 217 to 237, probably just coincidence but I'm just wondering if Kubrick changed it to 237 to be a close but not exact reference to that hotel room in Lolita as Humbert is hoping to finally get his stepdaughter into bed but backs off when he finds the police convention is there and Jack is hoping to have his way with the naked bathtub woman but physically backs away when she turns into the hag-corpse vision
that's just a thought but it did strike me as a similarity which could have some truth behind it
Love u Rob thanks for doing what you do, anything you post is always an instant click for me.
Did you catch the other connotation that was directed at a Kubrick rival Altman?
Sellars mimicked Kubrick’s voice when he played Clare Quilty. It was an inside joke.
Referenced again in the behind the scenes clip. Kubrick is the stand in for Quilty next to Mason and Nicholson. Note that Kubrick is standing next to Duvall. She is dressed very childlike in the film and this clip. SHE was Lolita in this setup.
Altman completed the subtext when he said later that Duvall was a different actress after her work with Kubrick. He took her innocence. Also note no one really thinks of Duvall as an Altman protege, they always think of her as a Kubrick actress. All this reminds me of the first scene when Quilty and Humbert meet.
I saw that movie she made with altman ... forgot the title, but it was pretty deep psychologically.
@@collativelearning Oh, was it 3 Women? Interesting movie
Hold on. Wouldn't Kubrick have at least had the dress design options for the twins already on paper, if not already shot segments featuring them at the time of Mason's visit? 🤔I think we're going to need some hard chronological data on that, Rob. But kudos in advance should you be able to provide it👍 PS, a swinging baseball bat, even though swung with half hearted girly energy, is probably what Jack perceived as an "interruption" 😉
Well the first time he says "I'm not gonna hurt ya" is in response to Shelly saying "don't hurt me!" and she immediately screams "stay away from me!" - so it could also be a call back from that as his very next line is "Wendy, darling...light of my life...".
@@Weird-City Not to mention that!
Not necessarily. If the whole film was shot completely in order then you'd have a point, but movies usually aren't - they're shot in accordance with availability of resources, personal and locations usually. You have to admit, those girls are one hell of a fluke similarity. As is the presence of Mason on set and in an end photo looking up toward the pic of Jack, plus the Lolita novel and film overlaps.
I disagree on the bat swing as "you didn't let me finish my sentence". She's swinging it for a couple of minutes.
@@collativelearning Well, even if the film is shot in any order I may have a point, and I also brought up the likelihood of pre existing dress designs which someone as meticulous as Kubrick could have had. I do think you absolutely have a point with certain undercurrents of the film. And in this video, your observation of the bathroom shots from both L and TS are certainly dead on, as is your sharp observation of Mason looking from his black and white photo up to Jacks. But your twins/ Mason girls thing is a bit shaky. Didn't you say you have actually visited the Kubrick Archives? And I assume you have a brand new copy of the very expensive, very comprehensive Taschen collection and other resources? I think you probably could demonstrate the reality of the Mason girls/twins theory with a little digging into materials you may already posses. Thank you for being the greatest film analyst of the internet age if not ever🤘
@@collativelearning Jack is telling a joke. "Bash your brains in" is the punchline.
I was watching the full vid on your site and I'm at the part where you mentioned barry lyndon and the caning that was done in british schools.
That reminded me of the 1968 Malcolm McDowell movie If... and I'm curious about whether you've seen that one and what you think of it. I love that movie and it'd be great to see you talk about it.
Saw it once and recall it being wild.
Hi. Very Intersting your channel. I'm watching most of the videos where you talk about mastepiece of terror The Shining and I think you didn't say that the name Lloyd is used for the multiple personality of Jack in the actor Joe Turkel and the real name of the child Dany Lloyd. Who actually abandoned his acting career.
In Eyes Wide Shut, I'll always remember the painting above Helena's bed in that scene when Bill enters her bedroom at night. Helena is sleeping. Apparently it was Kubrick's wife painting.
Every painting in a Kubrick film is by his wife. There's a geat one in Lyndon. Bary is apologising to his wife for somehting or other and the painting above depicts a man on his knees, clearly begging the woman in the paininting for forgiveness.
@@davidlean1060 That painting has a particular meaning if we can see the three letters in it. Kubrick used it as a way to convey his hidden message. Kubrick knew too much about the terrible reality of the world. It was too taboo for the profanes, so he concealed it into his art. 'Sex magick' of the elite was his masterpiece revealing in his last movie.
Intersting comparison. I often go out of my way to have subtle quotes from my films appear in subsequent films. I often have the words To Become One in nearly every film, named after my second film To Become One. It's sometimes sub-conscious, I think Kubrick was a fan of his other films and it brings him joy to reference this whenever he can. (am not comparing myself to him in any way) Thank-you for posting all this content by the way...
Cool Channel forgot u existed, definitely sparked my obsession with Kubrick. Very informative!
Very unrelated I know, but have you played the video game 'Journey' by any chance Rob?
I haven't
Love your insights into films!
i dont see how anyone can deny the shining is about R, as the saying goes: 'once you see it, you cant unsee it', redrum = not just murder but R and murder (with the booze pun too). and of course he had to code it- imagine the studio asking- 'whats yuor next flick stan?', 'well im gonna do one about an abusive alcy who commits dv and p file in cest', 'awesome, sounds like a hit, heres 20 million dollars, go make it'...
James Mason also showed up on the set of the Shining. Wondered why he was there. Makes more sense now, realizing there is a Shining Loilita connection.
i just found ur channels and love what u do rob. i would love to see u make videos on lynch - mullholand drive and blue velvet!!
Cheers. There are studies of a few Lynch films available on my site - Elephant Man, Lost Highway and Mulholland Drive.
I think Juli Kearns' link between Mason's set visit and the Holocaust themes is more convincing than the child abuse angle, which I frankly never subscribed to. Good work as always though.
I would love to hear your analysis on some Joseph Losey films: The Prowler and The Servent and then some of his others.
Rob, I sent you an email pointing out a few appearance similarities between A Death In Venice and The Shining. Delbert Grady appears to be wearing the exact same jacket as some background hotel workers in the film.
I haven't seen a death in venice. Big backlog of emails at the mo I'm afraid.
@@collativelearning I would recommend giving it a watch, I truly believe that Kubrick was trying to draw us to this movie in subtle ways to connect to the child abuse theme in The Shining.
Where can I see the rest of your Lolita research ?
As mentioned at the end of the video, you can access the 2hr ish version of this vid via my Patreon or buy it as a digital download on my site. Links in video description :)
I grew up in a “dysfunctional” family setting with a violence presenting patriarch, and I always found Danny’s question to Jack on whether he would hurt him or Wendy rather odd. Even now, as an adult, I have to medicate/self medicate in order to even spend a casual afternoon with my father, so I never believed in the child abuse angle because it was never a question whether or not it would happen (which the concept of even standing up to the reality of the situation much less the perpetrator of such abuse is beyond absurd for a child) but when these acts of aggression would be triggered and how to avoid it. Also, Danny’s insistence on getting his toy with the consequence of waking his abuser is not a choice at all. I never would have, because there lies sleeping bears. Maybe Kubrick didn’t fully understand what it meant to develop with such abuse or Danny is meant to be stronger than just someone who is a victim of child abuse.
In Danny’s case “Tony” is likely who actually experiences the abuse when it happens. It is made clear at the beginning that Jack has already dislocated Danny’s arm, but Danny still asks his dad that question, why?
I see your point re. the risk Danny takes in waking Jack, although I would say that it's kind of a necessary contrivance on Kubrick's part. He has to put the two characters alone together in order to establish how afraid Danny is of his father, and to make us ask why. Look at how tense and frightened he looks when he finds Jack awake. He completely freezes, and pretty much stays frozen throughout the scene, reluctantly enduring Jack's affection yet visibly uncomfortable and perhaps repulsed. I found that scene very uncomfortable to watch, just from Danny's behaviour there's a strong sense of danger, even without the creepy music. It's that scene more than any other that started setting off molestation alarm bells for me (although the bath scene, Jack's response to mirrors, and finally the bear scene all build a pretty convincing case).
@@mankyscotchgit4986 One of the hallmarks of an abusive relationship is that you don’t talk about the abuse. Everyone is supposed to act like it never happened to the point that the abuser might not even remember the act. Which actually kind of works if Danny is aware enough that there are two Jacks. Good Dad vs Bad Dad, and in this scene maybe he’s trying to instill a sense of protection, like casting a spell, on good dad hoping it helps Jack maintain control over bad dad.
Nicely done
Murder by Decree was remade as FROM HELL with Johnny Depp (people who saw the later, will not find Murder as shocking as if you watch it directly......so if you have not seen From Hell, I suggest you first watch Murder by Decree)
Not exactly the case. From Hell was an adaptation of the Alan Moore/Eddie Campbell comic, which itself was inspired by Stephen Knight's non-fiction 'Jack the Ripper: the Final Solution'. The latter came out in 1976 and it likely influenced the script for Murder By Decree
Rob, have you ever watched Carnal Knowledge with Jack Nicholson? I watched it earlier this year and I was floored during one of the final scenes where Jack is scrolling through photos of all the women he has slept with, when he comes to a woman named Bobbie and in the exact same voice that he said "Here's Johnny" in the shining, he said "Here's Bobbie". Have you seen this movie? Surely if anyone has seen the Shining and then watches this movie, it is obvious that Kubrick seen this film and borrowed the line.
You're the man, Rob, great video as always 👍
When Jack says "You didn't let me finish my sentence", I'm pretty sure he's referring to "I'm just gonna bash your brains in." "I'm not gonna hurt you. You didn't let me finish my sentence. I said I'm not gonna hurt you, I'm just gonna bash your brains in."
Thanks for the video Rob. By the way, i found one or two sentences especially interesting when i watched "Lolita". I think it came out of the girls mouth and it vaguely described what had happened to her after she left him. Keep up your great research :)
What about the scene where Humbert, Charlotte and Lolita are at the drive-in cinema, they’re watching a film with some sort of deformed/decaying creature - the close up of which is cut to back and forth from a close up of humbert as he makes his first physical contact of the film with Lolita. The parallels between this and The Shining bathroom hag mirror scene are clear to me
Just watched Murder by Decree thanks for the recommendation
You liked?
@@collativelearning that was fairly interesting I do enjoy them recommended
Both are disturbing films in their own way. "Lolita" is far more of a horror movie to me, the main character being an evil degenerate and it makes me so happy when she escapes him.
Sure…she escapes with Quilty who tries to traffic her into doing porno movies - from one monster to another.
@@aliensoup2420
Yes, it’s a very sad story and very real as well. Many girls in the sex industry went from being abused at home to being in the hands of an abuser who sells them.
That reality in Lolita is what really makes it so horrifying.
Rob have you seen the new Tashkent book on The Shining?
It contains the scrapbook you accessed in the archives and a massive book about the making of the film with hundreds of never before seen photos. Sadly it’s £1500 in price but I’m sure Taschens would give you a copy to review
Does it have the entire scrapbook? That book was massive on its own.
@@collativelearning I think it does ua-cam.com/video/Co1k9MMjk2I/v-deo.html
Incidentally you get a mention in the BFI book
The Shining by Kevin Donnelly
A joke:
What thickening agent does collative learning use when making jelly?
Ager Ager
Haha, I remember our science teacher describing Agar Gel, at which point the whole class looked right at me and laughed.
I've noticed some Moloch references in Kubrick films. The "Moloko bar" in Clockwork Orange, and "Millich" in EWS.
Are there any others in his other movies?
PS I've read that Kubrick gives nods to "Metropolis", which overtly features a Moloch theme.
Great content I found you looking up 2001 🎉
Rob, seeing how labyrinthine Kubrick's directing was in general but with this film in particular do believe that anyone else on set was privy to his true vision other than himself?
The only one I would assume to be "in on it", so to speak, would be Jan Harlan, exec producer and brother in law of Kubrick.
"You crushed my pea!"
8:05 I had a bathroom in the same exact colours when I last lived in the UK.
I would love to see Mr Ager cover Kubrick's Spartacus, and I would love to hear your thoughts on my analysis here. I think Kubrick was already encoding deeper themes at that time before Lolita. Specifically, I have noticed some parallels between Spartacus and Space Odyssey. First of all, the colors white and red are very significant in both films. The outfits the Roman congress wears are painted white and red. So is the color scheme of the inter-moon satellite at the beginning of 2001. Almost as though 2001 presented Kubrick with creating the white and red set design he wanted in Spartacus on the scale he always dreamed.
I also think Spartacus was a prelude to the "Human Zoo" themes in 2001, which Kubrick himself stated. The themes in each may not be fully realized until being compared together. A theme in Spartacus is comparing humans to animals. Spartacus says at the beginning, "I am not an animal!" and the theme is insisted upon throughout. The slaves and warriors being wild animals and the rich men being domesticated, tame animals. Similarly, 2001 starts with the "dawn of man," or the beginning of human consciousness, in apes. Thus Kubrick is comparing the human beings in the rest of the film to apes in cages. The tight hallways of the space ships are much more claustrophobic juxtaposed with the wide open spaces the apes inhabited -- where we still belong. Again, Hal-9000 is always watching the human specimens through the cameras embedded in the walls (like an observor of zoo animals). Similarly, in Spartacus there are barred hatches in the slave's cells where their masters can watch them fornicate -- "like animals" breeding, as Spartacus says.
Finally, I think the human zoo element is a metaphor for the suburbs. There is evidence for this in the propaganda film of 2001 which Mr Ager commented on in another video. His theory was that each magazine cover symbolizes a hidden theme in the Odyssey. Well, one of the magazines has something about suburbs on the cover, if I remember correctly. I think the idea is that suburban houses and modern office jobs are like cages in zoos, just as the human animals in 2001 are locked up and sedated, in space as in today's society. Similarly, the theme of slavery is ever present in Spartacus, and this could be a metaphor for modern life as well. The only difference between modern slavery and that of the ancient's, is the work our masters have us do now is sitting down at desks in cubicle cages, which keeps our bodies soft. Whereas the hard labor of the slaves of old hardened their bodies and prepared them to revolt, as we saw in Spartacus. Our masters of society today have just gotten smarter.
What do you think of my comparison, Mr Ager? I would definitely enjoy to hear you tackle Spartacus and more of Kubrick's older films in future installments.
Spartacus was an okay movie, technically well made (that certainly contributed to Kubrick's managerial skills for making 2001) and it has some good moments, but some boring scenes here and there. It has almost certainly been referenced in Kubrick's later films, especially in Clockwork Orange which had Alex dressed as a Roman and I think there was a Roman battle scene as well there. Full Metal Jacket's training scenes reflected those of Spartacus. The co-writer for Eyes Wide Shut did say about Kubrick wanting him to research on Roman orgies. AI Artificial Intelligence has a coliseum of sorts at one point. And the opening scene of Lolita openly pokes fun of the Spartacus movie.
@@moviearchaeologist9655 more interesting connections.
@@moviearchaeologist9655 it's a great film. And no, for me, my attention never lags. I dig the way the epic structure allows for romance alongside political intrigue alongside battles.
I think I've only watched Spartacus twice. It was ok, but I much more enjoyed The Vikings (also Kirk Douglas) and would be more likely to do an analysis on that one instead, even though it's not Kubrick. I know Kubrick didn't value the film as part of his filmography and said it was a learning exercize being in charge of such a big budget studio project. At the same time there are likely some references to it in other films. In fact I know there are some.
@@collativelearning can you send me a link to that interview? However for me, what creators say about their work I consider as extratextual. Kubrick is extra slippery. Then again, in that case the other films in his canon would be extra textual too. A film should be understood on its own terms first. Maybe I'll post my own analysis 🤘
This is probably to much of a long shot- but I watched Chinatown last night - and I was thinking of the year it takes place 1937- which made me think of the numerical similarity to 237 - which made me think of the (sub)plot and theme similarities - as well as sharing a lead actor…
Probably just harebrained noise on my part.
This movie and Kubrick just keep getting more wild, James Mason in the shining documentary lol... Like what?? Kubrick is, as Jack Nicholson says, he's the man, and it still under rates him lol
ive only seen the movie once years ago and the only scenes I clearly remember are with clare quilty. so creepy but magnetic. Peter Sellers was so perfect at what he did.
What a great movie, I’m almost embarrassed to say how much I like the movie “Lolita”
It takes a minute to get into Lolita because it is old (I am latter Gen X). I dig it. Thanks!
Robb is back in the House Bitches!
Kubrick's favorite movie was Erasure head.
And the beginnings ? Aren’t the first shits of each movie, with the camera following a lonely car, so much the same ? Except that The Shinning’s more grandiose and of course lasts far longer as in saying : OK, now for the spectacular version of this story (and while typing this I’m thinking of a nice Grady / Quilty similarity especially in the motel scene).
Rob, will you do a video about the idea of V'ger's question to Assimiliate All Knowledge & Destroy The Original (from Star Trek: The Motion Picture) turning into the evil of the Borg? Didn't that start with a novel by Shatner? Do you think it's valid in-universe?
I also just noticed the comparison with V'ger and Terminator 2: "Typically, the subject being copied is terminated." Is there enough to unpack about the origin and meaning of the Borg for your analysis?
Seems like a no-brainer but is Lolita a must watch? I haven't heard much about the film when put up against Kubrick's other works.
Lolita is a masterpiece!!
It's incredible. Some people say Kubrick's films are cold and emotionaless. I say to them .... try watching Lolita. It's deeply emotional.
what is up with the weird ceiling light fixture in the 237 bathroom? It seems to have two mismatched globes with an irregularly shaped base
Him jcs psychology and summoning salt are much watches!
I really prefer your essay videos more than these free-form. But I did like this video.
So do I but they take a lot longer to write and edit. Trying to bounce back and forth between the two formats.
Jack says "I'm not gonna hurt ya" after completing the sentence before. He then finishes the sentence "I''m not gonna hurt ya". I don't really think it needs to be as you say, for it to still be a reference to Lolita.
Woah. Can’t wait to watch this .
One small point you missed out on:
Casting Jack as the main lead.
Jack was in Polanski's Chinatown...
Polanski the 13 y/o girl rapist...
Nice
I just picked up a copy of Murder by Decree, thanks for the recommendation!!! Right when I added it to the cart the phone rang, it was my sector gestapo, apparently that movie is currently banned for all expendable worker class personal in my neighborhood... Maybe if I get the omicron booster??
The mirror scene actually means that demons use good looking girls but are actually evil and ugly
Have to ask: did you spring for the Shining Book that just came out??
Nope. Over priced and an interview I heard with the author put me off.
I’m already eager for the new Ari Aster film just so I can compare my thoughts (thoroughly influenced by Rob’s analyses) with Rob’s 😂
I’m not stupid and watch lots of good - and bad films, but I’ve never thought about Jack as a child abuser. I thought he was a nasty piece of work and that’s that. Is he meant to be a sexual child abuser rather then a nasty one who beats kids?
I have never been scared by this film and know it’s a masterpiece but I don’t get the title it often gets as the best horror film ever made. Maybe it’s too high brow for me. Calling it horror probably isn’t correct. Phycological horror it is where Elm Street is horror - a very good one.
They are both Kubrick, yes??
Hi, I have a question about your website, If I got the videos and the content in your website,
will I get a translation with it?
Or can in somehow translate it?
There's no translations. you'd have to use a program of some kind to do that.
Has an interpretation been of "They Live" where the film might be a Parody of American One Man Army?
It shares many similarities with "Big Trouble in Little China" Jack and Nada share almost similar roles. But Nada is the Anti "American" (ironically) One Man Army hero?
Rob perhaps you have already but would you consider breaking down King of Comedy?
Maybe. It's a good movie.
ललिता।
As they say, everything is relative, esp. In Hollywood. What is the zodiac sign that rules the art of acting?
That's right. GEMINI. THE TWINS. Duality.
Also, in the Shining novel, wasn’t the lady in 237 into young boys?
Did SK lift the slowly opening the door scene from Wizard of Oz?
Dorothy was in the shot in that one wasn't she?
@@collativelearning she was.
@@collativelearning we as the audience get to share the suspense with Dorothy, Jack, etc of whats looming behind the door. Takes us and them into another world .
@@MYPOWERSTATION1 It's a great shot
Hmm... Did Jack Nicholson know about the Lolita connection when he was shooting the Shining?
I ask because the incident when Roman Polanski photographed an underaged girl, it took place in Jack Nicholson's house. Mr. Nicholson wasn't home at the time, but it's a thought that has nagged at the back of my mind the whole time I watched this video.
Yes hon anything with their orange lol.
murder by decree, great film.
cool
the connection between the shining sisters and the two girls with mason seems like a reach and a half tbh lol
In what way a stretch? Are you saying the taller one doesn't look like the ones and the other's dress isn't incredibly similar? I think it's a stretch to just dismiss it.
@@collativelearning your theory could easily be true because directors will change or add something on a whim if something catches their eye, like David Lynch in Twin peaks chose the Bob character who was actually just a removal guy but he hid behind a bed to stay out of the way of the shot and Lynch thought it looked great so added him to the movie, a director will take inspiration from wherever it arises
I'm surprised you don't point out the fact that just about a decade earlier Kubrick worked with a man who was likely abusive.
I wonder if he knew anything about Clarke. Not to mention that Jack is an author.
He knew Clarke was gay but I really don't know if he had looked into his personal life in that way.
Jack Torrance wasn't an author, he only pretended to be one. He didn't write or publish anything.
Fascinating... Just a thought, but I wonder if there is something with the name Lyon, as in Lolita herself, Sue Lyon. "Lyon" sounds like "lion," "lie on," and "lying." Like, there are multiple scenes where we see both Danny and Dick (who share the shining ability) "lie on/Lyon" beds (which could have a sexual subtext)...
Also, we see not a lion/Lyon (or tiger), but a bear? (oh my) -- another beast giving fellatio to an older man. Is that a possible connection? I know that's really stretching it, but just thinking out loud here. This stuff makes you wonder.
I don't think that's connected personally, but nice idea. Apparently Nabokov himself picked out a photo of Su and said "That's her, that's Lolita". I'd say she was picked for her looks and manner.
@@collativelearning For sure, I think it was her looks first and foremost (I for one find her one of the most gorgeous women I've seen on film). But who knows, maybe Kubrick exploited her homophone surname after the fact and did something with it...
@@Sam-lm8gi I remember seeing the film for the first time about age 14 and I absolutely adored her - serious early teen crush.
Jack was sacked for sexual advances to pupils. I think that's clear now.