EXCLUSIVE: LEAKED Mormon Attendance Figures!
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- Опубліковано 8 жов 2024
- The LDS Church in Europe has been struggling in recent years, according to official public statistics. Take a peak behind the curtain however, and the picture is much more dramatic!
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VIDEO SOURCES
Church News Podcast
www.thechurchn...
Official LDS Europe Wide Statistics
newsroom.churc...
Lost Members Protocol
archive.sltrib...
Ukraine and Moldova Info
newsroom.churc...
Europe North Closed in 2000
abn.churchofje...|MCORGID=66C5485451E56AAE0A490D45%40AdobeOrg|TS=1662149058
New Consolidated Europe Area - Europe West and Europe Central Merged August 2008
abn.churchofje...
www.deseret.co...
www.deseret.co...
Eurasian Economic Union
www.gisreports...
2014 AREA PLAN
archive.org/de...
2021 Leadership Assignments
newsroom.churc...
Bednar Growth
www.churchofje...
FAIR USE DISCLAIMER:
The Media in this video (including the thumbnail) is used in a transformative way, for the purpose of review and critique.
Good work Nemo. You are the front line for us Americans who want to know what exactly is going on in Europe. Thanks! It’s very appreciated
My pleasure Joe!
I concur
@@NEMOTHEMORMON Why do you run around in circles arguing with the Saints?. For your information is nothing but swisscheese before God.... It does not make sense to me why you want to nit pick an omnipresent being who has all the information and facts and knowledge.... Obviously like doubting Thomas you are in a faith crisis and your faith is
being tested..
@@germanslice Is he "nit picking an omnipresent being" or he is talking about the statisticians who are singing "All is Well" while the congregations shrink?
@@boysrus61 I believe he is acting more like a little woodpecker trying to chip away at the Lord. But he will be chipping away at the Lord for all eternity and still not make a single dent in the Almighty. For God has a impenetrable paling of light all around him. You can't chip your way through that.
Why does the church not realize it's a sin to lie
I don’t know, but that is a very succinct way of putting it!
Love, love your show, Nemo! Always concise facts and great delivery without a bunch of worthless dialogue.
Wow! Even though I've seen this podcast before, it just occurred to me that Rusty Nelson is correct when he says Europe has a bright future. They have a bright future because church membership is declining. Yes, I repeat, they have a bright future because fewer people are spending precious time and money supporting or buying the Mormon inauthenticity. Thank You Very Much! TYVM! Jay
Hey Nemo, fantastic research and video. I really wish the Church would just publish all its membership info for all to access, rather than having its members dig for it. It’s sad when the Church exaggerates and lies about it’s numbers, there is no shame in being honest about how you are shrinking. Just recently my own ward collapsed at my college and we had to merge with another ward, which I did not see coming at all because of course things like this are always announced at the last minute.
I find it more noble to stand your ground, without using fluffy worlds, and just tell me as it is. Great work Nemo!
Exactly! They should just be up front with us as members!
Are you in the states? I'm guessing if it is a college ward it is in Utah, Idaho, or Hawaii. Am I close?
@@boysrus61 Yep, right in Utah👍
@@NEMOTHEMORMON I think that id the church was more upfront it would actually increase motivation for missionary work!
Thank you, Nemo! You do the work and have the patience, I don't have, but am very interested in following.
My pleasure, I’m glad you find it interesting!
This is brilliant Nemo.
I am an inactive member and have been ignored for 17 months. No visits, no phone calls, no texts, no emails, nothing on social media, my ward never remembered my birthday, no message at Christmas and no celebration of my 20 years service at my work. This is why the attendance numbers are dropping. All churches are having the same problem because people have lost sight of the main issue. Jesus was (and still is) a people person. He is not interested in "religion". He came to save lost sinners (people) not to create an organisation.
The unparalleled growth is just in the other direction
Seems that way!
For years I remember the phrases "fastest growing church", "by their fruits ye shall know them" - Yes, it was comforting. I think many members prefer to live in past glories. I took my non member family through the Hamilton NZ temple open week before rededication. It was beautiful; even my mother liked it, and we all joked the place was going to fall down when she entered. But I wondered if all this money and attention was in some way a delaying tactic; look at this marvellous edifice but don't look at the declining membership?
THE WORTH OF SOUL
IS GREAT
IN THE SIGHT OF GOD
FREEDOM TO CHOOSE
TEMPLE BLESSINGS
Western Religions are failing altogether, thank God
@@jinkazama5720 Receiving or qualifying for temple blessings is like playing Final Fantasy X.
In Final Fantasy you have to do hours and hours of endless level grinding in order to unlock the best items in the game the Celestial items. If you don't do all the grinding and the tasks required then you can't unlock the celestial items....
And that's why some people end up pulling their hair out in frustration and break their controllers when playing the tight minigames to try to get the celestial items because its not easy to get the Celestial Items because of the RNG in the game..
Likewise with the temple you have to do all the level grinding day after day in living the gospel and meet the requirements in order to unlock the higher blessings that are in the temple or you cannot obtain those blessings if you don't do all the daily grinding..
Jesus Himself also had to do the level grinding
(Rev 3:21).
What is the result of doing all of this level grinding?
Your light grows more brighter and brighter until the perfect day when you become like a day star.
@@germanslice
"Level grinding"?
What the he77 is that?
@@ahashdahnagila6884 Choosing the right day by day, getting up when we fall down and keep trying. It means levelling up.
Ha ha, I also snickered at your President Nelson longevity joke. Love your content, Nemo!
Cheers! Glad you appreciated it!
I’m an inactive person in Utah, I’m still counted in my ward and I have not attended church for over 10 years. Still counted
Thank you as always for the careful analysis Nemo. The words deckchairs, re-arranging and Titanic are the only three that come to mind.
Yes, that’s very much the vibe here!
So is Nelson the violinist who bangs his head on the rails as he falls into the water? 😂
I was a bishopric member. My Bishop would count attendance by saying if one member of a family showed up, then the entire family was counted as "in attendance". So, yes, these numbers are exaggerated.
I was a YSA leader in Montana and I got a list of all members that would have met the standards for YSA. The list was about 400 names. On a great, fantastic, amazing day, we had 45ish people attending our activities.
Now, some of the people on that list included people who have moved away or got married and wouldn't qualify for YSA (Young Single Adult). But it definitely was eye opening to see how much effort the church went into collecting and maintaining all the data it could. It was hoarding names, addresses, birthdays, contact information, and sometimes family members.
If you are thinking of joining this church, please be aware that most senses of privacy will be stripped away from you and your loved ones for the rest of your lives and afterlives.
I have family members in Montana. what part? East or west? Near Missoula?
@@jonbaker476 Helena
What?! The Worth of Soul is Great in The Sight of God ... Records will be kept ... even for the apostates and or the excommunicated members
@@jinkazama5720 nothing was said about whether or not it's wrong to keep records, it's simply being stated that you'll lose all sense of privacy if you join the church, which is true in most cases
@@jonbaker476 i think that would be a cultural point of view - its not with us (asians) especially here in the Philippines
I watched a recent MSPodcast. Immediately after, an advert popped up inviting people to join the church. Picture of a Missionary and, I presume, a member came up. Info said that I could call, speak to and pray with a Missionary. Further down it emphasizes the"unlike other Religions, you don't have to pay to attend church services. No plate passing". Later it throws in that members are required to tithe 10% of its monthly income to the Church, to cover missions and charitable work. I visited the local Mormon Church with dear friend's who were members. It was a rented space and the service was just plain boring. My friends subsequently left. When churches were opened after the long Covid lockdowns, there were just a few members left. I believe if all exmo's withdrew their names, the whole thing will come tumbling down.
A church, based in Utah, and run by a bunch of old men, just won't work for Mormons any more. It is so unattractive to young people and it's teachings are totally outdated. To judge young women as inferior to their male counterparts is so insulting. Today's bright teens have ambition to go to University and have a great career. They don't want to be saddled with children until they are established. The LDS has lost it's purpose. It's a giant conglomerate which values money above all else.
These old men are just scrambling to imprison their members and prevent any outside influence, trying to keep members sheltered from the real world. In this day and age, it just doesn't work. Kids these days are too technologically knowledgeable and know how to search the web so easily compared to years ago.
I am a member and so grateful for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Those "old men" as you call them have blessed me and my family with great knowledge from on high. Women are NOT judged as inferior, that simply isn't true. As I live the teachings of Jesus Christ, I, and my family have been blessed and will continue to be blessed throughout eternity. The Church has not lost it's purpose but many people in the world definitely have.
@@emh7956 I am a member too and really struggling with the old men in the church...every ward...every congregation. When you have lived and served as long as I have, you get to the point where you want to say, "Now hang on, why didn't you ask one female what they think the consequences of such a decision by the Bishopric would be?" Every Stake and Ward Presidency I have ever served in has all had to scratch our heads and say, "What were they thinking?" I'm just old enough now to call it out for what it is. You don't need the church to live the teachings of Jesus Christ. You need the church to live THEIR VERSION of the teachings of Christ. Do you think if you didn't have the church you would be a lost person?
@@boysrus61 will i be counted an old man for being an active LDS for more than 3Decades
Am here in The Philippines
@@jinkazama5720 Maybe😁 I have the most fantastic Nativity that a Filipino gentlemen made and my husband bought around 13 years ago.
Thank you for your hard work Nemo!!!
You’re very welcome!
My ward has no Primary. 2 teens about 30 people attend Rosedale ward in NSLC.
I can tell you of two people who I know who passed away. Their children told the Church that they had passed away (in their 90s) and they are still on the membership records. When they both turn 110 in about 15 years then will they be removed? The Church has an unprecedented future? True. If you call falling attendance, the amalgamation of branches, wards and stakes then yes it's unprecedented. Members need openness and transparency but that's not going to happen when you have 80 and 90+ year olds running the Church in the 21st century. They have no idea as to what really is going on.
In my neck of the woods, where a $100M temple nears completion, there are 10% of 23,000 members active and they are struggling to get 200 youth to attend fsy from 4 stakes and 2 districts.
It hapoens for there are certain requirements that needs to have
Like a hundred or thousand names to index with
Jesus Christ!
Wheres this?
Sounds like St. George.
well researched nemo.
embarrassing for the lds company, that they do something like this and need to polish the statistics. do they really think no one notices these shell game tricks?
Hopefully they will start to learn, transparency is key!
I admire Nemos Research
Am here in the Philippines
Be it note, that leaders of The Church
Serve in a limited period of time
Therefore this data is known well
By the leaders in those areas (serving or no longer serving)
You are putting the hammer down bro., keep up the amazing work 🙏
Will do!
always informative! one plea! slow down on going from slide to slide. thanks for ALL you do.
That smile after "who's actually gonna live to be 110?" was PURE GOLD. Also, that "so if the church in Europe really has ..." "... AN UNPARALLELED FUTURE!" at the end was utterly priceless. You made me die laughing thank you.
Really interesting video/topic! Thanks!
Hahaha! Glad you liked it!
I believe (with only moderate proof) that the church continues to count resigned and excommunicated members in their numbers. The records are not removed; the member has just resigned. The records go to a different file where, when a resigned or excommunicated member wishes to return, the records magically appear and the returnee and their history is immediately accessible. There is no leaving the church. They have you forever.
An excommunicated member file goes to another file and is not counted on a general membership
Record Keeping is so vital and important
See Revelation of John the Apostle
Makes me wonder too, they would probably have to do this otherwise the real membership growth number could appear negative or close to it. It's hard to believe in the church of nearly 17 million members, with at best 4-5 million active, that those 12 or 13 million people all just stopped going and didn't have their records "removed." Even if 10% of those resigned, that would result in the real membership number being 1 or 2 million less than what they advertise.
Great video! Thank you!
"Come closer, I have the real numbers" I love it! Nemo, you are fantastic!
Very nice. Well done, as always.
Here in Utah as of 2020 data there are under 47 percent membership in salt lake county. I'm sure that number is down under 45 percent now. They ( LDS Inc) go by percentage per -county not state wide. I'm sure in a whole of state wide membership consensus that number would probably be in the 30 percentile. Easily! But as usual the church rules Utah with an iron fist still..
A sad sight that is happening to most religions right now. It’s been getting bad for years, but something about the pandemic has bad things significantly worse.
It's not bad, it's terrific.
honestly the pandemic was what caused me to realize I was happier when I got away from church. that was when I started to fully drift away. It was mostly that I slept better
The first form of the Bible was written in 325BC, 80 years before the Antikythera mechanism, and was called the Vaticanus Graecus, Son of the Divine Serpent, a reference to Fomalhaut, which is shaped like the all seeing eye, in Aquarius, the sign associated with John the Baptist, who was a Setian, the root word of Satan. Just as israel is the Phoenician word for Saturn, or El, Fruit of Isis and Ra.
In the Second Century AD Astrologer Vettori Valentinus used the Vaticanus Graecus to construct a lunar zodiac of 13 months, this correlates to the 18.6/ 19 year Metonic Calendar, found in the earliest known ancient temples, the Bible, Antikythera mechanism, New Grange and the Bru na Boinne, the Chaldeans, Egyptians, Assyrians, Celts, Phoenicians, and inscribed into the Golden Enoch Horns of the Magi, the Eunuch Druid Priests of Cybel, or Kythera, the "Great Mother", (who also has 216 names) in Germany and France. A Druid took 19 years to train, and the Phoenix was associated with 19 flames.
TLDR; the ancient metric system of time used by the builders of the Megalithic sites all over the world directly correlates to the Astrological Zodiac and allows for the surveying of the entire globe.
It's worth noting our current system has 8,640 seconds in a day, just as the sun is 864,000 miles wide. Enoch also wrote 36,525 scrolls, which is 365.25 times 100, the Egyptian number of perfection, which allowed them to calculate things to the second decimal place. The Great Pyramid is a Calendar, based on the Metonic Cycle and the Zodiac, hence the association of Osiris with Orion, and Pleiades Isis, atop the back of Taurus, just as the Phoenician Princess Europa, who rode the Bull. The entire Mediterranean region was also mapped out according to key constellations, marked by these Megalithic structures, which themselves encode these numbers
Other names for Isis include Semiramus, Aphrodite, Europa, Kythera, Cybele, and Cylene.
The Byblos Baal, or Book of Baal is the Phoenician Almanac, a coded book of Astrological cycles used by the Priest Class of Egypt; the Phoenicians, to navigate the oceans. Phoenicians, Celts, Assyrians, Chaldeans, Egyptians and Jews all celebrated their New Year in September, the 7th month, the Sunsign of Ophiuchus, the Serpent Bearer, associated with the healing Gods, and marked by the first New Moon in the 7th month after the start of the Zodiac in Easter, when Ophiuchus is the East Star. In September the East star is Orion, aka Osiris, aka Set, Lord of the Dead. Hence the Aleph, and the Zayim, Alpha and Omega. It's also the Birthday of Jesus, and when he said he would return, at the end of the Age. It's reversed to keep the code secret, and written in metaphor so no one could know what was contained therein.
It's an Enigma Code, literally.
The Metonic cycle, in chronology, is a period of 19 years in which there are 235 lunations, or synodic months, after which the Moon's phases recur on the same days of the solar year, or year of the seasons. The cycle was discovered by Meton (fl. 432 bc), an Athenian astronomer.
The Pyramid is also 230 metres square, or 235 Megalithic Yards.
En-men-dur-ana (also Emmeduranki) of Sippar was an ancient Sumerian king, whose name appears in the Sumerian King List as the seventh pre-dynastic king of Sumer. He was said to have reigned for 43,200 years
His name means "chief of the powers of Dur-an-ki", while "Dur-an-ki" in turn means "the meeting-place of heaven and earth" (literally "bond of above and below") Arc of the Covenant
There are also 86,400 seconds in a 24 hr day. 24 minutes is 1440 seconds, times 100 gives us 144,000
A list of ten kings was composed in Greece c. 280 BC by the Babylonian priest Berossos, and their reign totals 432,000 years. In the Icelandic Poetic Edda it is said that there are 540 doors in Odin's heavenly hall of warriors
Five hundred doors and forty there are
I ween in Valhalls walls;
Eight hundred fighters through each door fare
Where to war the Wolf they go.
The war with the Wolf was the recurrent battle of the gods and anti-gods at the end of each cosmic round. Here we have 540 x 800 = 432,000. In the Mahabharata and Puranic texts, the cosmic cycle of four world ages numbers 12,000 divine years, one year corresponding to 360 human years for a total of 12,000 x 360 = 4,320,000 human years. This is broken down into yugas as follows:
Kali = 432,000 years or 1200 x 360
Dwarpa = 864,000 years or 1200 x 360 x 2
Treta = 1,296,000 years or 1200 x 360 x 3
Satya = 1,728,000 years or 1200 x 360 x 4
The number 432,000 has been found in Europe (1100 AD), India( very ancient, and 400 BC), Mesopotamia (c 300 BC)in reference to a cosmic eon.
At the moment of the Spring equinox (March 21) the heavens are never quite in the same position they were the year before, since there is an annual lag of 50 seconds which in the course of 72 years amounts to 1 degree (50" x 72 = 3600" = 60' = 1 degree) and in 2160 years amounts to 30 degrees or one sign of the zodiac.
For instance, today the sun stands in Aquarius at the Spring equinox, in 1976 the sun stood in Pisces and in the time of Christ it was in Aries. This slippage is known as the precession of the equinox. Copernicus in 1526 AD calculated this same figure. We note also that the lag is 50 seconds/year or 1 degree in 72 years, 30 degrees in 2160 years, 360 degrees in 25,920 years or one complete cycle of the zodiac. But 25,920 divided by 60 gives 432. The ancient Sumerian calendar had five-day weeks or 72 x 5 = 360 days per year. But 360 x 72 = 25,920.
The integer 1200 represents the sum of the years in India for a cosmic cycle. Now
1200 x 201 = 241,200
1200 x 380 = 456,000
1200 x 360 = 432,000
These numbers correspond to the Sumerian tablet list of ten kings who ruled for a total of 456,00 years, a second tablet which lists only eight of these kings with a total of 241,200 years, and Berossos' list.
The Book of Genesis lists ten patriarchs from Adam to Noah and the Flood totalling 1656 years. In the Jewish calendar one year is 365 days. In 23 years plus 5 leap year days we have 8400 days or 1200 seven-day weeks. If we multiply 1200 x 72 we get 86,400 or the number of Jewish seven-day weeks in 1656 (23 x 72) years. Since the Babylonian calendar year was composed of 72 five-day weeks, then in 432,000 days there are 86,400 Babylonian five-day weeks. Then in 432,000 days there are 86,400 Babylonian five-day weeks (432,000/5). Thus the Bible concurs with the other lists as well.
The earth's axis wobble that causes the precession of the equinoxes is given as 25,920 years. Divided by the ancient number called "soss," 60, which was used in calculations, results in 432.
The Greek Ages also bear a close correspondence to the four Yugas of the Hindus: Krita-Yuga, Treta-Yuga, Dvapara-Yuga, and Kali-Yuga. Their method of calculation is described by Ullamudeian as follows:
"In each of the 12 signs there are 1800 minutes; multiply this number by 12 you have 21600; e.g. 1800 X 12=21600. Multiply this 21600 by 80 and it will give 1,728,000, which is the duration of the first age, called Krita-Yuga."
If the same number be multiplied by 60, it will give 1,296,000, the years of the second age, Treta-Yuga. The same number multiplied by 40 gives 864,000, the length of the third age, Dvapara-Yuga. The same multiplied by 20 gives 432,000, the fourth age, Kali-Yuga." (It will be noted that these multipliers decrease in inverse ratio to the Pythagorean tetractys: 1, 2, 3, and 4.)
The Essenes studied the Mysteries of Pythagoras.
His name means Heart (Bel) of the Serpent.
The cycle of the Phoenix encodes the astrological calendar by which they removed 3 days every 630 years. This was expressed in a Pythagorean Triangle of Dimensions 216 by 630 by 666.
6 x 6 x 6 is 216, there are 2160 years in an astrological age, and the Moon is 2160 miles in diameter. The solar metonic calendar using 60 6 day weeks produces 1 extra day every 216 years. There are also 216 Megalithic seconds in a day, and 216 letters in the name of God
216 times 2 is 432, times 60 is 25,920
I admit as a half norwegian, I am interested in if the new temple in Oslo will be serving coffee. Norway is the 2nd highest consumer of coffee after all only behind Finland and even a lot of the churches in the area have been affected by the culture around it to be able to actually survive in the first place. There is a reason why the Lutheran Church isn't a big fan of the different American Lutheran Alliances afterall
Are you saying Norwegian members drink coffee?
@@NEMOTHEMORMON They don't. I didn't even have the guts to try decaffeinated coffee as a member.
But according to Jana riess survey a good chunk of temple recommend holding millennials in USA drink coffee
Mormons are such hypocrites. When joseph smith did the whole word of wisdom thing, it was "Hot Drinks". So, therefore, postum, herbal teas, cocoa, etc., should all be abstained. Nothing wrong with coffee and tea. Former bishopric member, high priest, temple worker here, by the way
@@johneasler9967 I couldn't agree with you more. The WOW needs to be looked at now that we have 180 years of health and education about nutrition in the world. People who are obese through food choices they make, can go into the temple with their extremely unhealthy life style, but if a conscientious person who exercises and eats healthy has a cup of coffee, forget about it. They are denied. This makes absolutely no sense. If Alzheimers runs in your family, there are so many studies that show a cup of coffee a day is a precaution one could take to help with prevention.
Nelsons eyes made me realise Satan is real. Real-eyes that Satan is reigning, still.
Spot on. As always, way to go Nemo!!!
Ah, yes. Portugal is one of the most famous countries in the north of Europe.
Hahaha! I know, it’s really odd!
“ Unparalleled future “. That would include fudging the numbers and covering up an unparalleled decline.
Unparalleled in how minor it is maybe. Other Christian denominations are declining much more steeply as secularism rises, something that was heavily accelerated during the pandemic which caused many to stop attending church and then not come back.
When the Church organizes such small wards, it makes running them a struggle.
Surprised that the church doesn't count the dead who are baptized weekly in the temples around the world. If you're going to be deceptive, hell, go all the way.
The pandemic has played a major part in interrupting regular church attendance. I wonder if this has had the same effect that his has had on other UK denominations where people have now simply got out of the habit of attending or found something else to do on a Sunday. I am an organist playing for a Catholic church and we stream the Mass each Sunday we started doing this during the pandemic and have kept doing it. I wonder if any of the Mormon churches streamed their services and people simply use the stream rather than actually attending. To be honest people just simply find church attendance a bore and prefer doing something else instead.
Europe is in an era where Mormonism fits like a Hawaiian shirt at a funeral.
The idea that a frontier pioneer church would be popular in most of Europe, one from a very niche time/place-based cultural movement in the US, and running on the American idea that even the craziest beliefs are possible, is absurd, especially with the way many European countries seem to be outpacing the "promised land" in important ways. I can see how Mormonism worked when America seemed like a beacon to Europe during the tumultuous European 19th century, the world wars, and rebuilding of Europe and cold war. But now it seems like a joke. In my mission in Portugal a decade ago, about 25 of my 32 baptisms were non-Europeans.
Excellent presentation and analysis of hard data
General Conference is coming up in October. It will be interesting to see how many new temples will be built and how much the church is growing member wise. The LDS Church will never admit its closing buildings and losing members
Well done again Nemo. The Church membership is not just declining big time in Europe, but also in Canada and Latin America. I have spoken with some Bishops and Branch Presidents who I know in Canada, and in one branch for example, the President moved with his family, and that was the President, his wife and 3 children, in other words -5 members. Out of that branch there was an activity rate of about 10-15%. As there were few priesthood holders in the one particular branch, they called the only active male who was under 80 years old. In the other branch, out of 100 members, activity rate is about 6-8%. The stake doesn't know if they should keep the branch open. In Latin America, two Bishops I know told me that their attendance rates are about 25-30%. The Church keeps building temples to make us believe that there is growth. One stake pres I know who is a good friend, said that these are the last days, the wheat is being separated from the chaff. (That's the official explanation). Plus that individual did not respond to a request (you know what I am talking about).
we just had a chaff separation a week ago when a ward in our stake was eradicated due to inactivity, thus effecting a stake "boundary" change.
and in the usa as well
This confirms one of my long-term suspicions. I have always suspected the church itself does not have a good accounting of what is going on. I suspect the top leadership does not really want to know. They will allow extremely sloppy accounting, especially if it masks the harshest news.
The outro music is really sad but fitting.
Thanks!
I remember all the agony that church doctrine put me through as a young child and throughout my life. The self hatred that ensued because I enjoyed a song with swear words or told a white lie. That, in contrast to how much church leadership lies to its own members. . . about much bigger things. Let’s just say the hypocrisy runs deep. Thanks Nemo for your hard work!
Recently, I stumbled upon an older episode of Mormon Stories 858-859 about Spiral Dynamics. This sociological model about values can explain why Mormonism dies out in Europe. As moral values shift away from dogmatic religion to capitalism/science based life and now even to climate change/sustainability values, Mormonism (labelled in Spiral Dynamics as blue) is simply outdated. The model also explains how young Mormons get disaffected, as their moral values on LGBT issues are not in line with church teachings. I encourage everyone to revisit this model and the two MS episodes or other presentations of the model here on UA-cam.
Thanks for that. Yes, the internet is where religions go to die. JWs and other high demand groups are also struggling and probably in terminal decline.
I understand if you don't want to e a member of the church.
But come on! Really?! You are going to trust a bunch of socialists and their propaganda with your future?! That makes less sense.
@@noahriding5780 LOL, is that your spiritual discernment, labeling people as "a bunch of socialists"? Did you learn that at a fireside with Brad Wilcox?
Ha' The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is The Church of Jesus Christ and is true since 2000yrs ago and is until now
Many had left since then others die, few had returned
Nemo, when I questioned our local leadership about my deceased husband's records following his death a year ago at the age of 78, I was told his records will stay on the books until he would have reached the age of 110. Then they can be removed. The same is true of our daughter who was killed at the age of 26. In other words she, too, is counted as a member for 84 more years! So I ask, just how fraudulent is this 16 million members figure when they're counting the dead?
I would think they would want to invigorate members rather than lull them into comfort and (ahem) laziness with the false image of strength and growth. Does this speak to a larger problem of real feedback in the hierarchy?
I know you are focused on membership numbers and respect that and it does matter! I just wanted to explain how easily believers can fall away......act or be acted upon.
Europeans are apparently smarter than americans. 😆
Thanks for the info!
Thanks!
Six weeks! That sounds like a cycle on a mission.
Does a bit!
OBFUSCATIONS, LIES, SMOKE AND MIRRORS, AND HORSE CRAP TO KEEP THE MUSHROOMS HAPPY AND WELL FED.
Wow. This is a huge treasure trove. Never saw this when it was published.
If even one soul is saved the joy and glory will be greater than Europe of even the world can contain.
Thanks for the info. The church is certainly dying and doesn't really want to admit it.
The church would do so much better if it didn't claim an exclusive right to all truth.
We also would do much better if we recognized that the Gentiles in the Book of Mormon are the LDS people today.
We must also "awake to a sense of your awful situation" in many regards. (Ether 8:24)
They certainly don’t want to admit it!
The Church is not Dying
The Church is Progressing
The Members Are Not The Church
(This is the meaning that differentiate with the rest of "christianity")
@@jinkazama5720 The gospel is true and the church is not.
@@Telavian The Gospel is True
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is The Only True and Living Church of Jesus Christ Upon the Face of The Whole Earth and Nothing Else !!!
Yes, The Members Are Dying While
The Church is Growing
The Church is The Church
Not The Members
The Book of Mormon had Testified
And its Fulfilling Now
VERY WELL SAID, ESPECIALLY YOUR LAST TWO POINTS!!!!! THATIS THE TRUTH.
I honestly think that the numbers in Europe reflect most of the world, with the exception of less technologically developed countries. It's very important to see the numbers and I'm always on the edge of my seat for this information
I would agree, most parts of the world with easy access to the internet probably look a lot like this!
Here in NZ and Australia, the polynesian membership numbers are holding things together.
Australia is in steep decline in areas with low numbers of Polynesians. Brisbane area is staying strong thanks to large numbers of Tongan and Samoan.
The leaders use the term "non-qualifying stake" for existing stakes that no longer meet the minimum thresholds for stake eligibility.
While we haven't had any stake closures that I know of in NZ, we do have a couple of non-qualifying stakes. And Australia and quite a few. Can't remember the exact number.
I find it really funny that the church is advertising to me on your video.
In doing so, they effectively pay me through ad revenue!
Awesome as always!
right on buddy!
Cheers!
There's a number of factors at play here. General secularism has hit the LDS church and others as well. They are all seeing a decline in a world where social values go contrary to those of religion. There is also the force of progressive Christianity (and Mormonism) which allows members to pick and choose what they believe and do a part of religious membership. Another factor deals with demographics. LDS church members no longer have high numbers of children. That affects the overall membership by generation. Another leading factor is the incompatibility between values held by Generation-Z and Millennials and the LDS church. Research data shows a disconnect younger members have with church hierarchy, LGBTQ issues, the repentance process, the place of men in the church, social stigma, and the role of women.
I believe you are correct with a number of factors playing a part. I wonder if Heavenly Father foresaw this day and new the LDS folks in the 2020's would be having less children and so he has a plan that President Nelson must surely be getting revelations about and will share with us next month.
Are you referring to America
Or LDS in USA ?
Am still young LDS Convert
When i read that LDS in USA will Fall
And the Whole Country would deny God
That time (1990-93) am waiting for the fulfillment of this prophecy
@@jinkazama5720 Both Christian churches and the LDS church have seen a decline. Data shows similar patterns between two forms of faith. The disconnect examples I give in the last sentence comes from data on the LDS church. I think mainstream Christian churches are affected by the rise of progressive Christianity, postmodernism, and secularism.
@@jinkazama5720 From your personal experience, do you think the church is growing or shrinking in attendance in the Philippines.
@@boysrus61 attendance stays sometimes a bit higher - the regular stays regular or at times "replaced" by the new regulars
Membership grows or stays
Attendance stays rise a little bit
From new faces (RC)
Thanks for sharing the real numbers. LDS organization would do better if they could be honest and upfront. Wishful thinking though as they are the masters of cover ups.
Love your videos Nemo as they are to the point and short. Thank you for all you do!
Watching his videos
So as to see the fulfillment of prophecy
Made thousand of years ago
Written and recorded 150plus years
Which i had read 30yrs ago
Hola primo!
Soy chileno y es bien sabido que mi país tiene muchos bautizados, un poco más de 600.000 para un país pequeño y la asistencia de un 15% aproximadamente.
Muy Interesante este video de Europa y otros que tienen
Saludos
Chile is not that small
@@jaquino451 porqué lo dices?
At 6:12 Cape Verde is listed as part of the Europe North area. I served my mission there. It’s technically an African nation who got its independence from Portugal in the 1970’s. So in a sense, there are some European cultural aspects to the country, but when it comes to religion, it’s very much African.
4 stakes, 16,334 members should be removed from the Europe North area, as having Cape Verde there falsely inflates those numbers.
Fascinating, Nemo!
Thank you!
The church, knowing most people won't dig below the surface, is just making things on the surface look like they are growing. The church is master at feigning a great facad. From a distance the arrow looks straight and true, yet close examination reveals it's crookedness.
Rejoicing are we at the church shrinking? People who rejoice at this definitely will never be a member of THE CHURCH OF THE FIRSTBORN.
My ward in the North America North Eastern Region has been hovering between 16-18% attendance for the last 2 years. Recent convert retention has remained at a similar level around 20%. We are the "average" ward in our stake, and while I don't know their exact numbers, I can assume similar numbers.
Thanks for this info
Am an LDS here
Was it prophecy? Was it divine? When the president of the church recommended getting the c19 jab, that has horrific side effects!
It's fascinating to see the Church respond to political shifts with their area realignments - like a competent corporation, but without any advance insight. They've shifted countries like the Baltics into the NATO-aligned camp and carved out a new area for Russia and its current allies - all very legally and politically responsible, along with removing their American executives from Moscow. Isolating Ukraine seems like a move from ignorance - they know as little as the rest of us as to how the war will turn out, so they've left its status vague. Very prophetic, gentlemen.
Sidebar - President Pokhylko (po-HILL-ko) was the stake president in Kyiv when I was serving my mission there in 2014. He's a remarkable and incredibly kind individual from my knowledge, and I hope he and the rest of the members are staying safe. Again, a little advance revelation in January that members should evacuate would not have gone amiss, dear Pres. Nelson... 🤦♂️
Thanks for the pronunciation feedback! It is indeed fascinating to see how they are acting secularly in that sense!
@@NEMOTHEMORMON Nothing but respect for your behind-the-scenes research and steady content stream - thanks for bringing these data to light!
My Fellow RM
How are you?
Tajikistan and Uzbekistan are in central Asia. Why are they in a Europe area at all?
No idea!
As a clerk of 17 years experience, about 3% of attendees are periodic, once a month. And it’s a different group, rotating attendance over a quarter. Additionally another 1% are Easter, Mother’s Day, Primary Program and Christians attendees. So realistically you should add about 4% to your totals. Europe is struggling for all faiths, most traditional Protestant churches have been decimated in attendance making the LDS picture a bright star in comparison. So this is more of a cultural phenomena than a LDS experiment. Additionally about 30% of those that fall away after baptism reactivate after 5 years. Another 25% when asked do not want their records removed from the church.
I think that if all your stats above are correct, and I have no reason to believe they aren't, the problem for me is it doesn't comfort to say that "Europe is struggling for all faiths" because isn't this suppose to be the one true church on the earth with a living prophet, seer and revelator guiding the ship? If we have so much truth, why aren't God fearing people leaving those Protestant congregations and flocking to the truth of the LDS faith?
@@boysrus61 Because choosing the natural man is the easier path. We all get to choose the path we take. It is said, that it never would be easy, only that it would be worth it.
@@Paysoncougarfan.7885 do you have an original thought and not one that has been used when there is nothing original to say? If the church tries to represent as a Ferrari but when you look under the hood and it’s two mice and a rubber band, then there is bound to be disappointment. Winning the best of least decimated award is hardly an achievement considering the church claims to be the only true church on the earth with all the keys.
@@boysrus61 Faith, you either have it or you do not. You cannot convince me and I will not try to convince you. We just have to understand we disagree. Enjoy your belief, I will enjoy mine.
@@boysrus61 why didn't everyone believe in Christ when he was alive and standing right in front of them, telling them he was the Savior of the world? It's almost like people have to search in order to find. Just because this is the restored church of Christ does not mean anyone is going to instantly know it. How many listened to Noah when he said a flood was coming? Satan works his hardest against the truth.
I wanted to see them fall as soon as possible
my condolences on you queen! 🙏 even america loved her.
Will the LDS church inevitably have to do a census and be transparent about real membership and attendance? What is the problem about being open with the LDS congregation about the decline in Europe? Why the political spin?
I wonder how other Christian churches count “members” and if it’s different. Most Catholics I know never attend or go for Christmas and maybe Easter. I wonder if they “inflate” numbers in the same way. If you are baptized Catholic as an infant are you always considered Catholic?
I wonder if the Catholic Church are even as bothered by numbers? 🤔
You Got it
Had A Lot of Friends and Relatives from other Religions (pastors and ministers) They count their attendance, they dont records
Some churches here do have a record
For their own safekeeping only and is not published nor their estimates
@@NEMOTHEMORMON My comment was sincere musing. An innocent question. But your response reveals bias. An apparent axe to grind.
Most Christian churches don't really need to have a recorded number of "members" because anyone who believes in Christ would be considered to be saved. In fact someone could be a Christian and never go to Church at all. With Mormonism, the doctrine frequent Church attendance and requires at least one Temple visit. I can't speak for how the Catholics determine their membership though.
Good one Nemo! Apart from Russell Nelson who's going to live to be 110 years old??? I am so chuckling and will be for at least two weeks! Thanx so much!!!!!
Membership is misleading. The activity rate is the number that matters. What actually qualifies as active has changed over time. Two decades ago coming to church two times or more per month made you active. Now it is once per month. In many Europeans units the activity rate is 7-10%. In Canada it depends on the region. Even Alberta is having problems with attendance levels. In eastern Canada it is 10-15% depending on the ward. The attendance rates ten years ago were double the rates now.
No its not
You may check your weekly sacrament attendance
And see, new faces each week (LDS)
There are what we could say A Regular Member
Who goes to Church Weekly
@@jinkazama5720 There are few new faces in the LDS church. Many wards are lucky to have 20 baptisms per year and many of those are inactive within 12 months. Church growth averages 0.5% per year over the last five years. The only new faces I see this summer are visitors which do not count towards activity rate in a ward. A regular member who goes weekly basis is a rarity these days. I attend weekly due to my stake callings. Keeping track of stats is one of my duties. I am also familiar with stats elsewhere in my country and globally. The people on the rolls vs those who actually attend at least once per month for each church unit has been in decline for over a decade. Many wards have 700 members but have only 140 of those in attendance (or less). The church is aware of the declining members since it tracks the stats. Youth are a particular concern and so are people 18-45 who also have been declining. These rates were noticed long before the pandemic in 2020.
@@scottbrandon6244 somewhat same scenario, the only difference is that we do really have regular active members not because of their callings
Yes there are those who are regulars because of a call
140 attendance is good enough
Am also in the Stake
Am assigned to Missionary Work
Leaders should have a much fatigue faith in us as they expect us to have in them. Especially since it effects every part of our lives and our decisions.
I think
You Rock!
They make it as hard as they can for people who want to leave do they still have to go get their leaving notarized to make sure it's good and then can we turn it into the church headquarters without having to have our whole membership notified in the ward and the steak and everywhere else?? I think they do this so that everybody can shame you is that true I've been going to do it for years but just checking on how to do it so I don't have to put up with a bunch of crap
Those figures are much higher than I thought they would be.
I don't recall Christ boasting of the number of his followers. It's unfortunate that growth and not conversion is the main focus. Ezekiel 34 seems to be being fulfilled.
That old guy? Somebody’s misleading him to make him feel better about himself. Sad.
So Spain is part of Europe Central, but PORTUGAL is part of Europe North???? How does that make sense? I don't know if this is the case here, but I've always been irritated by how these territorial divisions, often seemingly random and artificial are made - I would guess mostly by American church administrators. From a former member from Spain who lived in Utah for almost 20 years, thank you Nemo for all these videos.
Hi Nemo. Is there any reason why the Church avoids an interpretation of Mormon 8 and the polluted state of the Holy church of God?
The church still baptizes several hundred thousand a year. If some want to apostatize, let them apostatize.
No they don't baptize several hundred thousand a year lmao they've been stuck around the same numbers for years now.
@@jaquino451 it's been between two and three hundred thousand a year in convert baptisms plus children of members who get baptized at eight for as long as I can remember. Though covid of course slowed things some
@@savezelda No its.not lmao
@@savezelda LDS church barely does 20k a year now if that.
@@jaquino451 I don't know if you have access to Google...
Not a member myself.
Why do you stay?
You seem to see all the flaws.
Might have lost 5%-10% of actives during CoVid. But a few members have come back who were less active before.
Whilst I don’t think the changes to Sunday School which mean members are asked to study at home more was a coincidence when within months church meetings halted. I have not accepted ministering replacing home teaching. I enjoyed doing Home Teaching, although in 17 years, living where I live I barely received HT visits. Once in a year, if that.
HT in my opinion worked better than ministering. No, never spoken to ministering brothers since they changed things.
How does the pandemic worship from home affect all this data?
From my own experience, the Ward clerk counted those who attended virtually. In Europe though members have been able to attend church physically for most of 2022.
@@NEMOTHEMORMON Seemed like you were referring to statistics from 2020 and 2021 in your video.
But I think we'd all benefit by having a clearer explanation from President Nelson of what he means in most of his remarks. I suppose the idea of an "unparalleled future" is meaningless without him elaborating on what he envisions.
When I was TBM, I would have seen those numbers and said, “well, thats just cause europe is so secular and their faith was destroyed because of the atrocities of WW2”. Thats how I justified it. Or I would have said, “the Lord is dividing the wheat from the tares”. Oh the things we used to tell ourselves to calm that dang cognitive dissonance!
Joe Blo,
I would be interested in why people do that. When cognitive dissonance occurs my mind goes in the opposite direction and just accepts the facts.
I don't need to see any church numbers or statistics to know membership is reducing for numerous reasons (not just history) and very little money is spent on charitable work.
The majority of people have more crystallized intelligence than me, but I have higher fluid intelligence.
Why did you struggle to accept the facts and get so emotional about them?
@@danielmoore4024 I struggled to accept facts because I was young, naive, and brainwashed from birth to believe that anything negative about “the church” is wrong, that the “facts” were what was in the scriptures and what was said from the pulpit. It’s actually pretty hard to accept something as a youth that would put you at odds with your peers, your siblings, parents, relatives, and your entire worldview. My entire life, anything I read about the church or JS that was less than gushingly favorable, made me upset. It wasn’t until I was 39 that I finally came to see through a lifetime of being taught BS and my own conditioning. I have no idea what you are talking about crystal and fluid intelligence.
@@joeblo7703
I and my kind were born at odds with our peers and our entire worldview was influenced while in our mother's womb, it's not difficult to accept at all and is actually very valuable.
It is my kinds fluid intelligence that prevents us from being blinded by emotions. It's what puts my kind at odds that caused the hypothesis that over 90% of technology has been invented by autistic people.
If you read about crystallised and fluid intelligence you may see just how foolish the education system is and why you didn't believe anything bad about the church.
People with fluid intelligence are greater problem solvers and are not trapped in the box "normality", it would be a good idea to redevelop some fluid intelligence without allowing your crystallised intelligence to diminish it. You just might manage to see that there's people who call themselves professionals trying to prevent human evolution.
@@danielmoore4024 all righty then! Moving on from my random comment.
@@joeblo7703
Moving on to what?
I’m surprised the Mormon church is doing so well. Church membership and attendance in other major religions is so much worse. The Mormons must be doing something really good. Congratulations to your church. Well done 👍
The name checks out!
The Optimist,
I don't think The Church of Jesus Christ is doing any better than others, I can safely assume a lot of members who attend don't actually believe what the church teaches. Some probably just come because they're brought by their parents, I'm a Sunday School Teacher and the teenagers in my class don't even read scriptures during the week. I always ask them "is there anything you read you found interesting and want to talk about?"
The teenagers don't find any of it interesting or worth talking about, when they become adults I assume they'll stop attending as I've seen others stop as soon as they became adults.
@@danielmoore4024 Sadly, the exact same thing is happening in every major religion. Mormons just seem to be doing better than the rest of us. Best wishes
They’ve managed to rig the number so that they only go up lol
How the Europeans will care about Amerindian tribes or the America is the promised land?
You question the church but you don't question the media?
Less than 20% as observed when I was EQP
Portugal in north? 😅 why?
Well my friend Nemo …declining numbers are not surprising to me in the least .After all these are the last days. I am not really sure where your heart is… but I have learned in my 72 years here on this earth, that Good and Evil does exist ..and that mankind have been given the freedom to choose for themselves there path….I choose to follow Jesus Christ…no matter what anyone else does …. like lehi’s vision some have wondered off the path and we’re lost…not holding on to the iron rod prayer works Nemo . May your path take you to where meet our God .. Peace be with you Kathleen Taylor
I named my cat Nemo🤣🤣🤣
Hahaha! Excellent!