@@jhoff80 Except for the simulated cobbles on the Neo series. That has "wake the napping baby" vibration if you are doing it on a marble floor without a trainer mat underneath. I have at least one empirical data point to verify that it can wake a two year old daughter sleeping across the room.
From my experience, the cheap wheel on trainers are the loudest (very tire dependent though, some tires just screech). From there is doesn't vary much but in general the more you pay the quieter it gets.
I have to use a big fan to prevent dying of heat stroke within a few minutes. Between the fan and my own labored breathing and occasional muffled swearing, the trainer itself is the quietest part.
I don't want to sound like a spoil sport but the integrity of the cycling media has come into question in recent times. Considering one of your "Sponsors" is Garmin aka Tacx, you may want to consider marking the video as "paid promotion".
I do agree, but they do say it in the intro. As a consumer, that’s enough for me. If we are only thinking of ethics and nothing else, then yeah it’s a little grayish
Before watching this and knowing Garmin sponsors the channel, I called that the newly released 3m would “win” and be the best turbo. Wasn’t disappointed. The 3m has been panned for being 2 years late and £400 to expensive…..
I'm ok with it also as they did mention sponser. I did find it informative as i was wondering the big advantages in the more expensive trainers. And i do know there are other manufacturers with a similar range of products.
Weren’t they ONLY reviewing / comparing Garmin products here, though? If this had been a Wahoo vs Garmin comparison, I think that definitely would have been an issue.
The movement on the Neo 2T is worth so much. That little bit of rocking back and forth makes it possible to ride in comfort for SO much longer. I just have a Zwift Hub, but I've added some tennis balls to the bottom with some little 3D printed feet and it makes a huge difference.
Having owned the Flow, Flux, Neo and NeoBike I definitely agree that the nicest to ride start at the Neo end of the line. That said the internal bearings wore out on my Neo (original not 2) after about 6,000 miles, and the NeoBike has been replaced a number of times. First with left crank arm issues, and most recently with a worn bottom bracket. Garmin UK have been amazing about it every time, and as frustrating as it is to lose the bike for a week at a time, having a new (refurb) one delivered is always nice. Have to agree with the movement side of things, the Neo's have that little bit of movement on them, where as the NeoBike takes some getting used to after a Neo, with no movement at all. I would add, to the advantages of the NeoBike being that there is no roadbike component wear. If you don't have a dedicated trainer bike, there is still wear on expensive components, not to mention sweat corrosion. The road feel of the Neo range is more of a gimmick for most, but is great at showing how energy sapping rough road surfaces are. Not something you can measure properly on a bike with a power meter, but are definitely aware of. I would never want anything less than a Neo, but my overall choice is the Neobike, simply because of the control you have over groupset choices, ride set up, and the ability to tweak your bike fit with reference numbers. Solid video guys, nice one.
I agree, wish Wahoo had this feature too. Both companies could probably add this functionality to existing trainers with a firmware update considering the cog is just a piece of metal.
Absolutely. That feature of the Zwift Hub is a huge game changer. It makes the Zwift Hub, at its price point, a incredibly compelling choice for a large percentage of the indoor riding population.
I don't want to do threshold and VO2 in the house so rollers seem perfect for me. Plus I want the challenge of learning rollers! Great video and perfect timing as I'm looking at the Galaxias. Cheers lads.
I've used the Flux S since 2020 but think I may consider going to the Neo 3 if it ever packs up. Thank you for the vid, it's the best one you guys have done to date. This is fast becoming my favourite cycling channel.
I picked up the Flux S a couple years ago just after the new year. It was a returned Christmas purchase and the store was remodeling and hadn't had a chance to check out all the returns, so the manager said I could have it for $300 if i was willing to take the risk (I could return it for store credit only). Great value at that price. Contrary to what it claims, it feels like it really only simulates up to 6-7% grades, but still way better than the wheel-on trainers i had been using. I don't do a lot of indoor riding so I'm not as concerned with the lack of features. One thing to mention, even though it needs to be plugged in to get power/cadence/grade simulation, without that it still gives a ride feel similar to a decent fluid trainer IMO (slightly less resistance, though), so can still be used for a pre-race warmup tool, even if it's a bit unwieldy to carry.
I have the Neo Bike Smart. I agree the price is far to high. But just as mentioned in the video it's verry usefull because wee have multiple people who use it. Everyone can set it up on their own needs
Tbh Flux S (or any iteration of Flux series) is probably the worst performer in that mid-range price category. Neo 2T after being discounted after the release of 3M is really mich better value for money than Flux S.
@@jeskli11 Maybe so, but these ratings having nothing to do with competitors in the price range - its completely isolated. They are comparing against the other Garmin products. Unless I'm misunderstanding you?
@@lemonfodder Simply: Flux S is not a very good trainer, Neo 2T is an amazing trainer. Hence why the Neo gets more points in that category even though it's significantly more expensive. My point with the competition was, that perhaps if they were comparing Wahoo or Elite lineup (they're all fairly similar), these brands would have as equivalent to the Flux S likes of Kickr Core or Direto XR and as equivalent to the Neo 2T likes of Kickr V6 or Justo. In these cases the Kickr Core/Direto XR would likely get in such comparison more points than the Kickr V6/Justo, because they are not as far behind the better model in the other aspects as Flux S is behind the Neo 2T.
@@jeskli11 I get you're point, and you're not wrong, but by the constraints of their scoring system the score just doesn't make sense IMO. They gave the Flux a good score for most of the categories. If it had bad scores for the other metrics then ofcourse a lower value for money score would have made sense!
~45 years ago (yeah, very old) I got rollers (crappy) and perfected riding in the basement of the house I grew up in. Part of me wonders what happened to them. I've got the 2T now, it's great, but honestly, do miss the rollers and may get a set. IMO, you learn a valuable skill with rollers.
I have a Tacx Galaxia and I have two major deal breakers with it, so my advice is to make sure you can easily return it if you consider buying one. 1) The first one is that this thing is loud. Forces you to crank up music on your speakers or use in-ear headphones just to keep you sane. You'll make your family/neighbours miserable too. Tried it with Panaracer GravelKing SS and Schwalbe G-One RS tires, so it's probably not as bad when used with road slicks, but a thing to be aware of otherwise. 2) It vibrates so badly that you constantly get numb hands, so you're forced to take breaks each 10-20 minutes to regain blood circulation. For comparison, I do 3-5 hour gravel rides regularly without any major issues with hand numbness.
Neo has 1 point more in features than the flux and cost twice as much, still got better value for money? Bet it has a better margin for Garmin so needed some promotion 😂 its a bit too obvious that the rating goes up steady with the price
Rollers are awful! Thank goodness for trainers....now we have a use for our road bikes. Because we all ride gravel bikes now and felt pretty guilty about that road bike in the corner. But now it's our "trainer" bike!! Guilt free living!
tacx busido smart. quiet, folds away, doesnt need to be plugged in, connects to everything. seems to me better than these newer ones. also has power effort lights if that matters. I use it regularly. sitting on a static trainer is very dull though. better to ride outside
Agree that a proper smart trainer is totally worth having but worth pointing out that even the rollers can be used interactivity with a very cheap speed sensor and heart rate monitor. You can even ride Zwift etc... not realistically as gradients aren't simulated, but still fun to be had.
Yes I mostly only use my trainer when I feel it's dangerous to ride outside. Ice on the roads or 60mph gusts are not my thing. Fine with rain and cold, even snow on the ground for off road , but if the weather means I might well crash where the cars are too, that's where I draw the line.
The bike is expensive but has a ton of unique advantages. You never have to mount or dismount a bike, it's always just ready. Most people I know who do a lot of indoor training end up having a "trainer bike" anyway. Bikes are a compromise of strength and lightness, weight doesn't matter with the Tacx bike so everything is overbuilt. You can sweat all over the Tacx bike and not worry about it. Anyone in the house can ride the Tacx bike. You can get a rocker plate if you need the "ride feel" you mention. Lastly, it's utterly silent and vibration-free. It's not really comparable to anything else here.
The "Flow" wheel-on trainer needs to be calibrated and that's a PITA. And it's sensitive to the inflation level of the tire so you have to pump up your tire to the same level before each ride. And the resistance changes as the tire warms up during your training ride. And a regular road tire breaks down quickly so you are going to have to buy a tire designed to be used on a wheel on trainer - which is a hassle to change tires as you go from riding on the road to having a session on the trainer - so you wind up buying a new wheel and cassette to go with your trainer-specific tire.
Steel frame... preferably stainless! That said, why build something new when there's thousands of pre loved bikes wanting a new home? One thing for sure, you won't need to worry about brakes!😃
I did this (lots of examples on the Zwift forums too) Because you dont need to worry about real world performance (Aero, weight, handling, etc.) things that would be unworkable/unrideable in real life matter much less or not at all. So as long as you can replicate the contact points of your normal bike, the choice of frameset/bike type/components mostly comes down to if you care what it looks like or not, and what you want to get from indoor riding. In my case I went for a vintage low quality road bike frameset with Sensha empire groupset and painted it up with cheap rattle cans to look like the in game Zwift steel bike, because it sits in my house and I have to look at it, and wanted to replicate outdoors as much as possible (and I like doing that kind of thing if I'm honest) basically a normal road bike build of the cheapest parts I could get minus brakes and wheels (I have Kickr Climb so no front wheel but any old wheel/tyre will do or some people make a front stand). I've seen a few go the comfort route almost emulating a peloton type bike with Hybrid/vintage MTB framesets and butterfly bars.
When it comes to a mat for vibration damping, don't buy something fancy for god's sake! I bought a 3 pack of the cheapest chopping boards I could find and a roll mat for camping. Cut the roll mat up into chopping board sized bits and with a bit of duct tape made 3 stacks of 3 layers of roll mat foam, with a chopping board on-top of each. The boards distribute the weight from the turbo-trainer's small feet, and the matts absorb the vibration very well. Total cost was about £15. The Flux S is expensive! The Wahoo direct drives are all easily found for around £300-£400 in pristine condition second-hand. To be honest though it's still reasonable, unlike the others. 4 figures for a turbo trainer!? For a lot of people that's going to be the value of their bike!
I bet the wheel-on trainer would have been a lot quieter with a dedicated trainer tyre. I have Wahoo's equivalent (KICKR SNAP) and have a wheel with a trainer tyre that I swap on and off - works well, pretty quiet, no slippage (and doesn't wear the tyre I use for out on the road).
Absolutely. I run my 'dumb' trainer as you do. Those tyres last ages too and can be found 'new' for a bargain second hand. I like to run nice tyres and it would never cross my mind to waste them on the trainer.
Had 2 flux s trainers, both broke for similar reasons. Garmin were good about getting new trainers, but i wont get another one again as they dont seem to be engineered very well. Have moved to an elite trainer and been happy.
Probably a stupid question but ive never used a turbo trainer, all the ones with a cassette on how does it work with chain wear/cassette wear? Do you take the cassette of the wheel and put it on the trainer? Or do you just replace the cassette on it at the same time as replacing the cassette on the bike so it doesnt wear the new chain on the bike (as i assume if the chain was previously worn it would wear the trainer cassette?)
If you don't have a dedicated turbo bike, People tend to leave a cassette on the trainer full time separate from the one you use in the real world. That way you can relatively quickly put the rear wheel back in if you want to go for a ride on a nice day. Regarding cassette wear. If you check and change your chain regularly and change them as soon as they need it, the cassettes last a few chains at least. On the turbo, because weight of components isn't an issue, you can use a cheaper cassette made of heavier materials thzn you might have on your nice groupset, so long as it's compatible with your shifters and mech still. If you do that, the cheap one won't wear as fast as your lightweight expensive one on the wheel does.
Flow is quite bad due to being dependent on tyre pressure and the worst fastening system to keep the tightness right. Need constant calibration, one day you struggle, others you feel like Pogi, only to find out that tyre lost pressure and it measures 50 watts more then you actually can do. Wheel on trainer is a must upgrade even though they are double the price or more
if not a conflict of interest it would be awesome to see you guys cover the decathlon trainers they are now doing, absolutely nothing decent info wise out there on them
Rollers should have 10 for value, how is it 3500 product to train during winter is the same value as 160 whtn it does everything except sprint training for more than 20 times less the price? My rollers (the cheapest variant) do around 350W at cadence around 100 on a normal tyres, if you put some 5$ noname 32c+ tyres and pump them up to 35psi they will easily go up to 500W. More expensivew rollers can ho up to 800W no problem. And you feel like you are riding a bike for real, it is even harder than normal road cycling, more like going through sand on a gravel bike kind of feeling, which improves your riding skills when you ride them, unlike all those smart things, where you can sit and forget.
My 2t has this incredibly annoying rumble you can feel through the pedals in the higher gears. Worse in the big chainring. I have tried EVERYTHING. Replaced chain and cassette twice. Disassembled and reassembled multiple times. Adjusted and readjusted everything for hours and hours. literally. I think this is just how the thing is and it's wildly annoying. Now I'm stuck because tossing $1k in the garbage isn't something I can afford.
Rollers🤢. I had the original Tacx Neo loved it, sadly only lasted just over 3.1/2 thousand miles. However Garmin have an excellent out of warranty policy that allows you to buy a like for like replacement. They didn’t have the original one so they upgraded me to the TN2 at a fraction of the cost. I did sell it six months later and purchased the Tacx Neo smart bike and I love it. Not without its problems left crank fell off (400 miles) but Garmin replaced it immediately. Another point the smart bikes unfortunately don’t fit smaller rides. After speaking with Garmin it’s apparent neither of their smart bikes fit anyone smaller than 5ft 7 inches or someone with an inseam less than 31”. Hence I bought my wife a Stages SB 20.
Unfortunately the flux is awful 😖 piece of equipment. I went through 7 in 2 years. Good when new Unfortunately the durability of them is terrible after a few months as everything starts to rub, grind and break.
Oh guys! I understand you have to make money but the sponsorship bias in this video is insane, giving the new Neo 6/10 for value when its £500 more than the previous model and includes a handle is very telling that this review was paid for.
Rollers are awesome! It's like running on a treadmill where the belt twists and turns uncontrollably all the time, and the surrounding is covered in huge rusty nails...
Honestly, I had the Neo 2 because I thought I would like some of the features like simulating surfaces. After a week, I turned that off on Zwift because there were bumps programmed into the game in the Neokyo expansion at a few too many places and it got somewhat annoying. The only advanced feature I really liked from the Neo was its effort lighting on the floor. In the end, though, I swapped the Neo 2 for a pair of Flux S trainers so my son could ride at the same time I did. Instead of buying a new Neo 3, I'm afraid I'm going to just buy more Flux trainers as the younger kids start to want their own. That's the real sweet spot of value, if you ask me. Everything you need, but not much you don't.
I have a Elite Qubo Fluid which is similar to the Tacx Boost. As I just use it for keeping in shape during bad weather and Swiss wintertime that's good enough for me. I keep the saddle flat, so I can comfortably sit upright and read a book while I pedal ! (no joke) :-)
They’re a Garmin sponsored channel so that would be unlikely that they would feature other brands. Similarly you won’t see any Tacx trainers on GCN due to their Wahoo tie up. Best to go to someone like DC Rainmaker for in-depth independent reviews of all trainers.
Still using the wheel-on Elite fluid trainer from 2016. Still works great in low noise, quieter than my fan. Can’t justify upgrading even for the smart features. I have added cadence and speed sensors and gathered my data including heart rate on my Apple Watch.
Same, a wheel on trainer plus a few sensors is what I have too. Mostly we can ride outside even in winter here, so I can't really justify upgrading to a direct drive smart trainer. Our winters are short too.
i just bought a zwift hub a couple months ago. does the job of enabling workouts no matter the situation outside. also makes for a great stand for cleaning the bike.
On the rollers, you completely glazed over one of the features offered by the Antares that makes them great for beginners: Garmin make a fork mount for those rollers which lets you get the ride feel from the back wheel while keeping the front of the bike in one place.
I started with tac anatares rollers when I first did indoor training. The plastic roller eventually warped over time due to being stored in my garage that has tempurates fluctuate quite a lot over the winter and summer. They lasted about five seasons before the rollers were warped enough I that it impacted riding. Also the end caps started grinding against the side of the rollers leaving fine plastic dust after each ride. I suspect if you live somewhere that doesn't get as extreme tempuratures they'll last longer. After those died I bought a nice pair of Krietler alloy rollers. They feel 10x better and you can hook up a resistance fan than will let you do over 2000 watts before spinning out on them. You're not stuck in zone2/3 with them. Highly recommend, but they're expensive.
How would you change your review of the 2T vs the 3M if you have the accessory back and forth plate on the 2T? More interested on the ride feel. Do they become the same or 3M still better! Thanks.
They are probably the same, that’s why they didn’t compare the new one with the old 2T with motion plates… so they can say what Garmin want them to say, that the new and more expensive one is the best.
Great review guys..However in my opinion I think your being a bit harsh on the Tacx neo 2t trainer in the set up score..it’s too easy to set up,also would have given a better score on the ride feel.I’ve just upgraded from rollers after 4 years and the Tacx Neo is fantastic trainer..👍🏻👍🏻
I have a Cycleops Supermagneto Pro Trainer from many years ago. Easy to setup, attach the rear wheel and go. I have cadence & a rear speed sensor. In New England it's the only way to ride in the off season.
NEO 3M, over priced like crazy....do you guys know Chinese brand Trianer?? Cyclplus T2 basically a Neo 2T, but only 600 USD. any there is Magene T600, another Neo 2T wannabe, but cheaper. you guys can try those and do a review
I would like to add that the wheel on trainers eat your tires, so best to use a different tire on them. And I agree with Jimmy, cobbles are the worst thing ever and they shouldn't be simulated at all.
I've got a Flux 2. Was £499 about 3 years ago and it's great. Works seamlessly with Zwift. Came with a variety of axle fittings for through axles and spindles. If I had any gripe it's they didn't throw in a front wheel stand.
I've owned a few Tacx products from Roller up to a 2T and other than the rollers I broken them all! Had a few with belt issues then a 2t with Board heat issues, I then tried Elite but I broke the Casting that the arms screw into! Now I'm riding a Xplova Noza V which was from wiggle this Christmas £699 down to £250! So far it's been fantastic very smooth fast to react rubber mounted and the only noise is basically drive chain, will it survive I'm not sure 😂 but it's a very nice product from a company I know little about. All I know is their first trainer the Noza S got ok ratings from Shane Millar so they went away acted on his recommendations and had a second pop at it, so far so good 🤙
In what world is £1750 good value for money. The 3M is stupidly overpriced. When you look at the price of their direct competition it becomes a joke but even compared with the 2T or Flux its a bit much. Do yourself a favour and get the Tacx Neo Special edition which has the internals of the 2T and is £650. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better value for money.
I understand you need to promote Garmins new products, seeing as they are your sponsor, BUT: You fail to mention the option of upgrading the Neo 2T with the detacheable motion plates, which brings the 2T on the same level of comfort/ride feel as the 3M (minus the "easier" lock out - but as you mentioned, why bother?). As the units seem otherwise almost identical as far as features go, the 3M only has the included cassette, adapters and integrated handle (WOW) going for it, while providing a much less competitive price point. Depending on where you live, the 2T is available as a bundle with the motion plates (+a HRM) already included at a price point 40% LOWER than the new and shiny 3M while still providing almost the exact same features. All this considered, the 3M provides very poor value for money if you ask me.
I bought a refurbished tacx flux in 2019 and I've done thousands of miles on it, however I am currently on my 3rd set of freehub bearings and they are not easy to change, although you can buy a complete new freehub (easy change) for about £50, I'm also on my second drive belt but it's an easy change. Not perfect but no regrets, money well spent for me.
I agree. Rollers a are terrific, mine are 50 years old this year, I have had replace the roller barrels twice over the years. But being a Boilermaker I did them myself, have been a great training device over this time. I will guarantee that there will not be ANY current day trainer still around in 50 years time.
On your list of criterias is missing the noise level. You mention it sometimes but it should be on the list.
How easy, with a smartphone or smartwatch, to measure the decibel level for each of these trainers?
Once you get to direct drive trainers, your drivetrain is likely louder than the trainer.
@@jhoff80 Except for the simulated cobbles on the Neo series. That has "wake the napping baby" vibration if you are doing it on a marble floor without a trainer mat underneath. I have at least one empirical data point to verify that it can wake a two year old daughter sleeping across the room.
From my experience, the cheap wheel on trainers are the loudest (very tire dependent though, some tires just screech). From there is doesn't vary much but in general the more you pay the quieter it gets.
I have to use a big fan to prevent dying of heat stroke within a few minutes. Between the fan and my own labored breathing and occasional muffled swearing, the trainer itself is the quietest part.
0:39 Antares
3:08 Boost
4:54 Flow
6:47 Flux S
8:44 Neo 2T
11:27 Neo 3M
13:58 Neo Bike Plus
I don't want to sound like a spoil sport but the integrity of the cycling media has come into question in recent times. Considering one of your "Sponsors" is Garmin aka Tacx, you may want to consider marking the video as "paid promotion".
I do agree, but they do say it in the intro. As a consumer, that’s enough for me. If we are only thinking of ethics and nothing else, then yeah it’s a little grayish
@@plsjesse I'm sure they didn't do that because it affects the algorithm.
Before watching this and knowing Garmin sponsors the channel, I called that the newly released 3m would “win” and be the best turbo. Wasn’t disappointed. The 3m has been panned for being 2 years late and £400 to expensive…..
I'm ok with it also as they did mention sponser. I did find it informative as i was wondering the big advantages in the more expensive trainers. And i do know there are other manufacturers with a similar range of products.
Weren’t they ONLY reviewing / comparing Garmin products here, though? If this had been a Wahoo vs Garmin comparison, I think that definitely would have been an issue.
The movement on the Neo 2T is worth so much. That little bit of rocking back and forth makes it possible to ride in comfort for SO much longer. I just have a Zwift Hub, but I've added some tennis balls to the bottom with some little 3D printed feet and it makes a huge difference.
Having owned the Flow, Flux, Neo and NeoBike I definitely agree that the nicest to ride start at the Neo end of the line.
That said the internal bearings wore out on my Neo (original not 2) after about 6,000 miles, and the NeoBike has been replaced a number of times. First with left crank arm issues, and most recently with a worn bottom bracket.
Garmin UK have been amazing about it every time, and as frustrating as it is to lose the bike for a week at a time, having a new (refurb) one delivered is always nice.
Have to agree with the movement side of things, the Neo's have that little bit of movement on them, where as the NeoBike takes some getting used to after a Neo, with no movement at all.
I would add, to the advantages of the NeoBike being that there is no roadbike component wear. If you don't have a dedicated trainer bike, there is still wear on expensive components, not to mention sweat corrosion.
The road feel of the Neo range is more of a gimmick for most, but is great at showing how energy sapping rough road surfaces are. Not something you can measure properly on a bike with a power meter, but are definitely aware of.
I would never want anything less than a Neo, but my overall choice is the Neobike, simply because of the control you have over groupset choices, ride set up, and the ability to tweak your bike fit with reference numbers.
Solid video guys, nice one.
They need the single cog like zwift made for the hub. The ability to put any bike on is game changing.
I agree, wish Wahoo had this feature too. Both companies could probably add this functionality to existing trainers with a firmware update considering the cog is just a piece of metal.
Absolutely. That feature of the Zwift Hub is a huge game changer. It makes the Zwift Hub, at its price point, a incredibly compelling choice for a large percentage of the indoor riding population.
Even better: other apps should support it. All of them
@@MrLuigi-oi7gm Except you can only change gears when using Zwift - any other app and you're stuck on a single gear.
Wahoo is releasing that feature very soon
I don't want to do threshold and VO2 in the house so rollers seem perfect for me. Plus I want the challenge of learning rollers! Great video and perfect timing as I'm looking at the Galaxias. Cheers lads.
I've used the Flux S since 2020 but think I may consider going to the Neo 3 if it ever packs up. Thank you for the vid, it's the best one you guys have done to date. This is fast becoming my favourite cycling channel.
I picked up the Flux S a couple years ago just after the new year. It was a returned Christmas purchase and the store was remodeling and hadn't had a chance to check out all the returns, so the manager said I could have it for $300 if i was willing to take the risk (I could return it for store credit only). Great value at that price. Contrary to what it claims, it feels like it really only simulates up to 6-7% grades, but still way better than the wheel-on trainers i had been using. I don't do a lot of indoor riding so I'm not as concerned with the lack of features. One thing to mention, even though it needs to be plugged in to get power/cadence/grade simulation, without that it still gives a ride feel similar to a decent fluid trainer IMO (slightly less resistance, though), so can still be used for a pre-race warmup tool, even if it's a bit unwieldy to carry.
I have the Neo Bike Smart. I agree the price is far to high. But just as mentioned in the video it's verry usefull because wee have multiple people who use it. Everyone can set it up on their own needs
Great vid! Although, how on earth did the Neo 2T get a higher value for money score than the Flux S?
Well, if you look at the rating, they gave random higher numbers and that's what Garmin want, they want to sell higher priced models.
Tbh Flux S (or any iteration of Flux series) is probably the worst performer in that mid-range price category. Neo 2T after being discounted after the release of 3M is really mich better value for money than Flux S.
@@jeskli11 Maybe so, but these ratings having nothing to do with competitors in the price range - its completely isolated. They are comparing against the other Garmin products. Unless I'm misunderstanding you?
@@lemonfodder Simply: Flux S is not a very good trainer, Neo 2T is an amazing trainer. Hence why the Neo gets more points in that category even though it's significantly more expensive.
My point with the competition was, that perhaps if they were comparing Wahoo or Elite lineup (they're all fairly similar), these brands would have as equivalent to the Flux S likes of Kickr Core or Direto XR and as equivalent to the Neo 2T likes of Kickr V6 or Justo. In these cases the Kickr Core/Direto XR would likely get in such comparison more points than the Kickr V6/Justo, because they are not as far behind the better model in the other aspects as Flux S is behind the Neo 2T.
@@jeskli11 I get you're point, and you're not wrong, but by the constraints of their scoring system the score just doesn't make sense IMO.
They gave the Flux a good score for most of the categories. If it had bad scores for the other metrics then ofcourse a lower value for money score would have made sense!
~45 years ago (yeah, very old) I got rollers (crappy) and perfected riding in the basement of the house I grew up in. Part of me wonders what happened to them. I've got the 2T now, it's great, but honestly, do miss the rollers and may get a set. IMO, you learn a valuable skill with rollers.
Got a great deal on a Tacx Neo 2 some years ago now (2019) when the 2T came out. Still running great.
I have a Tacx Galaxia and I have two major deal breakers with it, so my advice is to make sure you can easily return it if you consider buying one.
1) The first one is that this thing is loud. Forces you to crank up music on your speakers or use in-ear headphones just to keep you sane. You'll make your family/neighbours miserable too. Tried it with Panaracer GravelKing SS and Schwalbe G-One RS tires, so it's probably not as bad when used with road slicks, but a thing to be aware of otherwise.
2) It vibrates so badly that you constantly get numb hands, so you're forced to take breaks each 10-20 minutes to regain blood circulation. For comparison, I do 3-5 hour gravel rides regularly without any major issues with hand numbness.
I have a neo 2T, I'm very happy with it! When I bought it there was an action from Tacx and I got a motionplate for free, so it is almost a 3m. 🙂
Neo has 1 point more in features than the flux and cost twice as much, still got better value for money? Bet it has a better margin for Garmin so needed some promotion 😂 its a bit too obvious that the rating goes up steady with the price
Happy with my Kurt Kinetic Road Machine, Conti 26" Hometrainer tyre on a Surly LHT and 4iii crank power meter.
Rollers are awful! Thank goodness for trainers....now we have a use for our road bikes. Because we all ride gravel bikes now and felt pretty guilty about that road bike in the corner. But now it's our "trainer" bike!! Guilt free living!
I love my neo bike plus. Rode 5000 km on it last year. I use the Tacx training app with it as well
I have a simulator with Aliexpress for $ 200 , which with a watmeter and a fixed resistance of 3% injection , it's enough for me very much
tacx busido smart. quiet, folds away, doesnt need to be plugged in, connects to everything. seems to me better than these newer ones. also has power effort lights if that matters. I use it regularly. sitting on a static trainer is very dull though. better to ride outside
2nd hands they way to go, I paid £360 for a Tacx NEO 2 hardly used over a year ago from FB marketplace, used it all winter no issues at all.
Agree that a proper smart trainer is totally worth having but worth pointing out that even the rollers can be used interactivity with a very cheap speed sensor and heart rate monitor. You can even ride Zwift etc... not realistically as gradients aren't simulated, but still fun to be had.
Love my rollers easy Z2 rides on zwift with a power meter
I have a trainer it's hanging in the garage collecting dust. I prefer to ride outside regardless of the weather but that's just me.
Yes I mostly only use my trainer when I feel it's dangerous to ride outside. Ice on the roads or 60mph gusts are not my thing. Fine with rain and cold, even snow on the ground for off road , but if the weather means I might well crash where the cars are too, that's where I draw the line.
The bike is expensive but has a ton of unique advantages. You never have to mount or dismount a bike, it's always just ready. Most people I know who do a lot of indoor training end up having a "trainer bike" anyway. Bikes are a compromise of strength and lightness, weight doesn't matter with the Tacx bike so everything is overbuilt. You can sweat all over the Tacx bike and not worry about it. Anyone in the house can ride the Tacx bike. You can get a rocker plate if you need the "ride feel" you mention. Lastly, it's utterly silent and vibration-free. It's not really comparable to anything else here.
Trip down memory lane to uni days when indoor cycling was staring at the wall and getting annoyed with that lever that always spins on the handlebar.
The "Flow" wheel-on trainer needs to be calibrated and that's a PITA. And it's sensitive to the inflation level of the tire so you have to pump up your tire to the same level before each ride. And the resistance changes as the tire warms up during your training ride. And a regular road tire breaks down quickly so you are going to have to buy a tire designed to be used on a wheel on trainer - which is a hassle to change tires as you go from riding on the road to having a session on the trainer - so you wind up buying a new wheel and cassette to go with your trainer-specific tire.
I Got a 2nd hand Tacx Vortex Smart Trainer for £80 It was a bargain easier to pack away and setup works for me. 🙂
Using a 2001 mag trainer watching VHS tapes of Troy Jacobson & Chris Carmichael. 😅Fortunately, our weather in Alabama is rideable year round!
The last one, does it come with pedals with powermeter ?
I've always wondered... If you built an only trainer bike. What parts would you use?
Steel frame... preferably stainless! That said, why build something new when there's thousands of pre loved bikes wanting a new home? One thing for sure, you won't need to worry about brakes!😃
I did this (lots of examples on the Zwift forums too) Because you dont need to worry about real world performance (Aero, weight, handling, etc.) things that would be unworkable/unrideable in real life matter much less or not at all. So as long as you can replicate the contact points of your normal bike, the choice of frameset/bike type/components mostly comes down to if you care what it looks like or not, and what you want to get from indoor riding.
In my case I went for a vintage low quality road bike frameset with Sensha empire groupset and painted it up with cheap rattle cans to look like the in game Zwift steel bike, because it sits in my house and I have to look at it, and wanted to replicate outdoors as much as possible (and I like doing that kind of thing if I'm honest) basically a normal road bike build of the cheapest parts I could get minus brakes and wheels (I have Kickr Climb so no front wheel but any old wheel/tyre will do or some people make a front stand).
I've seen a few go the comfort route almost emulating a peloton type bike with Hybrid/vintage MTB framesets and butterfly bars.
Cheap hard-wearing drive chain components I think.
When it comes to a mat for vibration damping, don't buy something fancy for god's sake! I bought a 3 pack of the cheapest chopping boards I could find and a roll mat for camping. Cut the roll mat up into chopping board sized bits and with a bit of duct tape made 3 stacks of 3 layers of roll mat foam, with a chopping board on-top of each. The boards distribute the weight from the turbo-trainer's small feet, and the matts absorb the vibration very well. Total cost was about £15.
The Flux S is expensive! The Wahoo direct drives are all easily found for around £300-£400 in pristine condition second-hand. To be honest though it's still reasonable, unlike the others. 4 figures for a turbo trainer!? For a lot of people that's going to be the value of their bike!
I bet the wheel-on trainer would have been a lot quieter with a dedicated trainer tyre. I have Wahoo's equivalent (KICKR SNAP) and have a wheel with a trainer tyre that I swap on and off - works well, pretty quiet, no slippage (and doesn't wear the tyre I use for out on the road).
Absolutely. I run my 'dumb' trainer as you do. Those tyres last ages too and can be found 'new' for a bargain second hand. I like to run nice tyres and it would never cross my mind to waste them on the trainer.
Love the Oakland Athletics Baseball cap
Have your sponsorships with MET, Scott, and Hutchinson tyres ended? I remember you saying you wanted fewer sponsorships eventually
Had 2 flux s trainers, both broke for similar reasons. Garmin were good about getting new trainers, but i wont get another one again as they dont seem to be engineered very well. Have moved to an elite trainer and been happy.
My homie has the tacx flow entry level one and it's decent, but for probably the same my wahoo snap blows it away imo.
10:22 The surface simulation/vibration actually makes for a nice little massage break sometimes. #justsaying
Probably a stupid question but ive never used a turbo trainer, all the ones with a cassette on how does it work with chain wear/cassette wear? Do you take the cassette of the wheel and put it on the trainer? Or do you just replace the cassette on it at the same time as replacing the cassette on the bike so it doesnt wear the new chain on the bike (as i assume if the chain was previously worn it would wear the trainer cassette?)
If you don't have a dedicated turbo bike, People tend to leave a cassette on the trainer full time separate from the one you use in the real world. That way you can relatively quickly put the rear wheel back in if you want to go for a ride on a nice day.
Regarding cassette wear.
If you check and change your chain regularly and change them as soon as they need it, the cassettes last a few chains at least. On the turbo, because weight of components isn't an issue, you can use a cheaper cassette made of heavier materials thzn you might have on your nice groupset, so long as it's compatible with your shifters and mech still. If you do that, the cheap one won't wear as fast as your lightweight expensive one on the wheel does.
What’s the song name for 2 bikes 1 wheelchair???????
Rollers are amazing😂
I train uphill training on a flow escellent product for how much it cost
Flow is quite bad due to being dependent on tyre pressure and the worst fastening system to keep the tightness right. Need constant calibration, one day you struggle, others you feel like Pogi, only to find out that tyre lost pressure and it measures 50 watts more then you actually can do.
Wheel on trainer is a must upgrade even though they are double the price or more
Rollers also wear out the tires more
The best feature of the full on indoor bike is a lifetime of maintenance free riding. No chain to clean, no worn out cassette. It just works.
OG neo tacx, still going strong!
Me too. Also stockpiled enough parts to keep it going many years…. Still the best turbo ever made I think.
Do those trainers have a weight limit?
you say value for money is worse on the neo 2t than flux s but give it one more point?
if not a conflict of interest it would be awesome to see you guys cover the decathlon trainers they are now doing, absolutely nothing decent info wise out there on them
😮 the 3M is the same price as my AL4 😂
Rollers should have 10 for value, how is it 3500 product to train during winter is the same value as 160 whtn it does everything except sprint training for more than 20 times less the price? My rollers (the cheapest variant) do around 350W at cadence around 100 on a normal tyres, if you put some 5$ noname 32c+ tyres and pump them up to 35psi they will easily go up to 500W. More expensivew rollers can ho up to 800W no problem. And you feel like you are riding a bike for real, it is even harder than normal road cycling, more like going through sand on a gravel bike kind of feeling, which improves your riding skills when you ride them, unlike all those smart things, where you can sit and forget.
My 2t has this incredibly annoying rumble you can feel through the pedals in the higher gears. Worse in the big chainring. I have tried EVERYTHING. Replaced chain and cassette twice. Disassembled and reassembled multiple times. Adjusted and readjusted everything for hours and hours. literally. I think this is just how the thing is and it's wildly annoying. Now I'm stuck because tossing $1k in the garbage isn't something I can afford.
Rollers🤢. I had the original Tacx Neo loved it, sadly only lasted just over 3.1/2 thousand miles. However Garmin have an excellent out of warranty policy that allows you to buy a like for like replacement. They didn’t have the original one so they upgraded me to the TN2 at a fraction of the cost. I did sell it six months later and purchased the Tacx Neo smart bike and I love it. Not without its problems left crank fell off (400 miles) but Garmin replaced it immediately. Another point the smart bikes unfortunately don’t fit smaller rides. After speaking with Garmin it’s apparent neither of their smart bikes fit anyone smaller than 5ft 7 inches or someone with an inseam less than 31”. Hence I bought my wife a Stages SB 20.
Unfortunately the flux is awful 😖 piece of equipment. I went through 7 in 2 years. Good when new Unfortunately the durability of them is terrible after a few months as everything starts to rub, grind and break.
"it can go up to a whopping 1500w which is enough for Francis, but not quite enough for me"
I had to stop watching for a while! hahahahah
So my flux is almost as good as the full on bike 💪 that's my take at least 😅
Where is the Flux 2?
No sound criteria :(
The studio is giving Casey Neistat vibes is there studio tour on it way 👌
I don't even like running on a treadmill so I don't think I could manage riding on rollers
Oh guys! I understand you have to make money but the sponsorship bias in this video is insane, giving the new Neo 6/10 for value when its £500 more than the previous model and includes a handle is very telling that this review was paid for.
Saris H3 for me. Tacx were too expensive for what they offered. Rollers are shit.
I don't understand why those trainers don't have usb output for charging devices or running little fans, so much power goes to waste...
Concept2 bike erg
Rollers are awesome! It's like running on a treadmill where the belt twists and turns uncontrollably all the time, and the surrounding is covered in huge rusty nails...
Honestly, I had the Neo 2 because I thought I would like some of the features like simulating surfaces. After a week, I turned that off on Zwift because there were bumps programmed into the game in the Neokyo expansion at a few too many places and it got somewhat annoying. The only advanced feature I really liked from the Neo was its effort lighting on the floor. In the end, though, I swapped the Neo 2 for a pair of Flux S trainers so my son could ride at the same time I did. Instead of buying a new Neo 3, I'm afraid I'm going to just buy more Flux trainers as the younger kids start to want their own. That's the real sweet spot of value, if you ask me. Everything you need, but not much you don't.
I have a Elite Qubo Fluid which is similar to the Tacx Boost. As I just use it for keeping in shape during bad weather and Swiss wintertime that's good enough for me. I keep the saddle flat, so I can comfortably sit upright and read a book while I pedal ! (no joke) :-)
How come, this video is not an ad? The channel is sponsored by Garmin, when do you guys are gonna merge with GCN?
4:47 Beautiful soundtrack selection for the special effects here, brought a tear to my eye 😂
Rollers are almost like riding a unicycle. It would be great to compare these with the Wahoo products; especially the Kickr, Core and Snsp
They’re a Garmin sponsored channel so that would be unlikely that they would feature other brands. Similarly you won’t see any Tacx trainers on GCN due to their Wahoo tie up. Best to go to someone like DC Rainmaker for in-depth independent reviews of all trainers.
+user-vm... You can ride your unicycle on the two rollers in the back haha
Cancel the accountant needed advert. The Difference is 3,340. Thanks, I'll see myself out.
Still using the wheel-on Elite fluid trainer from 2016. Still works great in low noise, quieter than my fan. Can’t justify upgrading even for the smart features. I have added cadence and speed sensors and gathered my data including heart rate on my Apple Watch.
Same here, great for keeping you moving when the weather gets grim
Same, a wheel on trainer plus a few sensors is what I have too. Mostly we can ride outside even in winter here, so I can't really justify upgrading to a direct drive smart trainer. Our winters are short too.
I brole 3 Neo bikes in 2 months. In the end I was given my money back and asked to go and buy another brand
The best Tacx is Wahoo Kickr.
i just bought a zwift hub a couple months ago. does the job of enabling workouts no matter the situation outside. also makes for a great stand for cleaning the bike.
This video is brought to you by Garmin 😂
It was also mentioned in the beginning of the video.
I think the value for money is oddly skewed to favor the more expensive options.
On the rollers, you completely glazed over one of the features offered by the Antares that makes them great for beginners: Garmin make a fork mount for those rollers which lets you get the ride feel from the back wheel while keeping the front of the bike in one place.
How can you justify the prices a cheap winter bike for the same price
was gifted a manual trainer by a friend and i haven't used it yet because i'm too worried i'll knack my bike.
I started with tac anatares rollers when I first did indoor training. The plastic roller eventually warped over time due to being stored in my garage that has tempurates fluctuate quite a lot over the winter and summer. They lasted about five seasons before the rollers were warped enough I that it impacted riding. Also the end caps started grinding against the side of the rollers leaving fine plastic dust after each ride. I suspect if you live somewhere that doesn't get as extreme tempuratures they'll last longer. After those died I bought a nice pair of Krietler alloy rollers. They feel 10x better and you can hook up a resistance fan than will let you do over 2000 watts before spinning out on them. You're not stuck in zone2/3 with them. Highly recommend, but they're expensive.
How much did Garmin have to pay to avoid Jimmy baulking at the fact any of them cost more than £500? 😂
How would you change your review of the 2T vs the 3M if you have the accessory back and forth plate on the 2T? More interested on the ride feel. Do they become the same or 3M still better! Thanks.
They are probably the same, that’s why they didn’t compare the new one with the old 2T with motion plates… so they can say what Garmin want them to say, that the new and more expensive one is the best.
Great review guys..However in my opinion I think your being a bit harsh on the Tacx neo 2t trainer in the set up score..it’s too easy to set up,also would have given a better score on the ride feel.I’ve just upgraded from rollers after 4 years and the Tacx Neo is fantastic trainer..👍🏻👍🏻
I have a Cycleops Supermagneto Pro Trainer from many years ago. Easy to setup, attach the rear wheel and go. I have cadence & a rear speed sensor. In New England it's the only way to ride in the off season.
17:32 aghhhh bald jimmy jump scare
Now buy the Garmin TacX motion plates and throw it on the Neo 2T and save hundreds over the Neo 3M with the same features
NEO 3M, over priced like crazy....do you guys know Chinese brand Trianer?? Cyclplus T2 basically a Neo 2T, but only 600 USD. any there is Magene T600, another Neo 2T wannabe, but cheaper. you guys can try those and do a review
Channel is sponsored by garmin/tacx so that’s unlikely to happen.
I would like to add that the wheel on trainers eat your tires, so best to use a different tire on them.
And I agree with Jimmy, cobbles are the worst thing ever and they shouldn't be simulated at all.
I've got a Flux 2. Was £499 about 3 years ago and it's great. Works seamlessly with Zwift. Came with a variety of axle fittings for through axles and spindles. If I had any gripe it's they didn't throw in a front wheel stand.
I've owned a few Tacx products from Roller up to a 2T and other than the rollers I broken them all! Had a few with belt issues then a 2t with Board heat issues, I then tried Elite but I broke the Casting that the arms screw into! Now I'm riding a Xplova Noza V which was from wiggle this Christmas £699 down to £250! So far it's been fantastic very smooth fast to react rubber mounted and the only noise is basically drive chain, will it survive I'm not sure 😂 but it's a very nice product from a company I know little about. All I know is their first trainer the Noza S got ok ratings from Shane Millar so they went away acted on his recommendations and had a second pop at it, so far so good 🤙
Ok, this is not EVERY tacx trainer, but it's pretty good
Nahhh I've done some zone 6 roller rides. Try doing a roller 10 mile TT. Takes about 10 mins at 150rpm haha
In what world is £1750 good value for money. The 3M is stupidly overpriced. When you look at the price of their direct competition it becomes a joke but even compared with the 2T or Flux its a bit much. Do yourself a favour and get the Tacx Neo Special edition which has the internals of the 2T and is £650. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better value for money.
I understand you need to promote Garmins new products, seeing as they are your sponsor, BUT: You fail to mention the option of upgrading the Neo 2T with the detacheable motion plates, which brings the 2T on the same level of comfort/ride feel as the 3M (minus the "easier" lock out - but as you mentioned, why bother?). As the units seem otherwise almost identical as far as features go, the 3M only has the included cassette, adapters and integrated handle (WOW) going for it, while providing a much less competitive price point. Depending on where you live, the 2T is available as a bundle with the motion plates (+a HRM) already included at a price point 40% LOWER than the new and shiny 3M while still providing almost the exact same features. All this considered, the 3M provides very poor value for money if you ask me.
I bought a refurbished tacx flux in 2019 and I've done thousands of miles on it, however I am currently on my 3rd set of freehub bearings and they are not easy to change, although you can buy a complete new freehub (easy change) for about £50, I'm also on my second drive belt but it's an easy change. Not perfect but no regrets, money well spent for me.
Rollers are amazing! Jimmi speaks blasphemy!
I agree. Rollers a are terrific, mine are 50 years old this year, I have had replace the roller barrels twice over the years. But being a Boilermaker I did them myself, have been a great training device over this time.
I will guarantee that there will not be ANY current day trainer still around in 50 years time.
Imagine considering anything above £300.00 "value."
Sponsorships smh.
Is there a way to use the boost with garmin power meter to link to zwift, mywoosh or tacx?