How much bigger the British pacific fleet was going to become during the late ww2 pacific campaign if the original plan for operation downfall continued its course?, how much ships does the Royal Navy could include apart from the ones that were part of it historically
You had shown a video of the USS Enterprise maneuvering hard during an air attack. I was wondering if there's additional videos of him maneuvering a ship and what was his service record? I also don't remember which ship it was, but I remember it being a carrier. The carrier was on fire and it was spreading in the hanger. The captain decided to go flank and turn hard. It worked and the fire and fire fighting water went overboard.
Thanks for the excellent naval history! Have you done, or could you do, a video (or perhaps a Drydock segment) on the advantages, disadvantages, and peculiarities of the amidships "Q" turrets of WW1-era dreadnoughts? Many thanks!
Thanks for this overview of the T-class. My late father served on them in the late ‘50s and early ‘60s, being posted twice in Australia. He was an ASDIC/SONAR operator on the Talemachus and Taciturn. One story he told me was of the time he crewed an old T-class (I forget which one) from Australia to Britain to be decommissioned and scrapped. Each year of life of a submarine reduces the safe depth to which it may dive - this submarine was so old it could not dive at all, so it had to make the whole journey on the surface. This is fine, of course, unless there is a storm and heavy sea. By their nature, submarines generally don’t fare well in heavy seas, so the normal routine is to dive beneath them. Well, as they passed through the Mediterranean, a major storm hit and they had no choice but to stay on the surface, bows into the oncoming waves. Again, by their nature, submarines are not designed to ride the waves, so each wave that came just rolled straight over them. Being on the surface requires an officer on watch duty. As the submarine was running on Diesel engines only, the conning tower hatch needed to be open for the air to be drawn down to the engines. But every time a wave came over, the hatch needed to be shut and sealed so that the sea didn’t come pouring in. My dad was the crewman tethered above the hatch - his job to shut the hatch when the officer called that a wave was about to hit, another crewman inside would turn the wheel to seal it. My dad and the officer would take deep breaths and wait until the wave had passed, then he would knock on the hatch for the man inside to release the seals, then both of them would pull and push with all their might to open the hatch. With the engines running and the hatch shut, the air pressure inside would drop, making opening the hatch an effort. And then the next wave would come and the procedure would be repeated, and again for each wave that passed for several hours. There was no time between waves for either my dad or the officer to be relieved - they just had to keep going until the storm had passed. But my dad said that the worst part of the whole ordeal was that they received a distress signal from an Italian liner that was in serious trouble in the storm. They were the closest vessel and in normal circumstances they would have changed course to provide assistance. Unfortunately, if they had altered course the waves would have capsized them, so they were forced to sail on by, unable to offer aid. My dad joined as a boy seaman at the age of 15. He was serving on the Barfleur at 16, during the Suez crisis. He volunteered to join the submarine service at the age of 17, setting the record for the youngest submariner in the Royal Navy - shortly afterwards, the system was changed and the minimum age limit was set at 18. My father’s father served on S-class submarines before, during and after WWII (and he had some stories), and his father served on the infamous K-class in the ‘20s.
@@vikkimcdonough6153 I don’t know the fate of the liner, my dad was vague about that. Whether he didn’t know or knew but didn’t want to say was hard to tell and I didn’t push him on it.
Would like an in depth look at the Warrior armoured cruiser. One of my great uncles (Richard Walter William Jenkins) was one of the men sweped out of her when the engin room was holed. He survived and was rescued later.
A suicidal charge, nearly run over by the flagship Lion and rescued by a meer turn of fate with Warspites shocking arrival. That is interesting and mad. Family story here my relatives mother was told he was dead but knew he was not. Even when oficialy told he was dead. She had seen a vision of him going overboard backwards. He denied ot untill her dying day and then admited it after her death. She knew he was ok because he ha been born in a caul so could not drown.
My father-in-law served aboard HMS Tiptoe. He chose subs initially for the extra money small ship/subs offered. Starting 6 weeks before the end of WW2, he went through his career getting his commission in his late 20's. He went to Hawaii to do his nuclear stuff before joining HMS Warspite and finishing with Vickers developing the Resolution Class SSBN's. Great guy, sadly missed. RIP Cdr Walter (Tim) Holt RN.
My great uncle served on a T-class, HMS Triad. He was on board when she had an extremely close surface engagement with an Italian submarine (Enrico Toti) in the Ionian sea in October 1940, which resulted in her sinking. Triad went down with her entire crew in about 1500-2000m of water after apparently receiving multiple hits from Italian sub's deck gun while attempting to dive. Due to the depth of the water she went down in I don't think the wreck has ever even been located. Edit: Just to add, I've just realised it was today's date in 1940 that the Triad was lost. Now that's a weird coincidence.
I served in HMCS Ojibwa, an Oberon Class boat. Our internal watertight doors were said to have come from a T-Boat that was being scrapped while OJ was being built. As a result, we had oval doors vice the round doors normally found on the Class.
A quick check of T Class scrapping dates compared to _Ojibwa_ construction times would show these could be from either _Thule_ , _Tudor_ or _Trenchant_
Another win for the British Navy in naming: Truncheon, Truculent, Tetrarch...wikipedia also lists Tempest, Truant(!), Trident, Thunderbolt, Thorn, Taurus. Strangest to me would be Tally-Ho, and least intimidating is Tuna. EDIT: Also, Tiptoe.
Tuna are pretty dangerous predators in their own right you wouldn't think so considering most searches about how dangerous or lethal they are bring up pages of results on Mercury poisoning when you eat them but large Tuna can hunt small shark if they want to they just prefer smaller prey most of the time.
The T class are among my favorite subs, so lethal looking with all the the forward external torpedo tubes, shame they didn't get to stay in the east for their intented role.....who knows what some 'functional' torpedoes might have done to the IJN in 41-42.
Yes, with IJN ASW being... well, the way that it was, these things probably would have reaped a serious toll if they had been able to operate over there. Unfortunately, like with basically everything else, the material demands of fighting in every theatre made it impossible
If someone showed me a T-Class out of the blue, I thought it was dressed up to look cooler for some post-apocalyptic sci-fi submarine movie. Nope, they were that lethal looking.
It truly speaks to the abilities and value of the T class that the Royal Navy didn't decommission the last one until 1969. I was 9 and in Louisiana. I would have LOVED to traipse through one as I had through WW II fleet subs during Portland's Rose Festival Fleet Weeks before we moved to the South. Ahhhhh... The wide-eyed wonder of youth!!!
@@Afterscience742 Interestingly, KanColle also doesn't have any British subs yet (aside from Japanese subs, there's currently one American, one German, and one Italian).
I'd like to hear you do a guide on the Royal Navy's K class fleet submarines some time! LOL. One of the best submariner quotes ever came from the captain of a K class "I say number one, my end is diving, what the hell is your end doing?"
@@AsbestosMuffins Unless my Google Fu is failing as badly as a K Class, he hasn't done a standalone video on them. He covers them as his review of The World's Worst Warships and in his list of naval engineering botches, but I can't find a separate video on just the class.
I grew up in small Cornish port on the north coast, our harbour master then was the first diver to enter HMS Thetis after she sank, it was an event that he never spoke about in all the time my father knew him. Also our local fish'n'chip shop owner's father had been a sniper in the Great War (WW1) and suffered the fate of a German artillery barrage to silence him. He had lost his sight and hearing from this. Used to see him propped up in a corner with his dark glasses on, totally immobile till closing time - weird!
My uncle was serving on Tetrarch when she disappeared in Oct 42, presumed lost in a minefield off Sicily, a little over a year before he was on HMS Rodney whilst she battered the Bismarck into a smoking hulk RIP Jacob Rowland
Many years ago when I was involved in the ASW business I recall chasing T boats on passive sonar. They made a hell of a din, you could hear them from miles away.
My father, thankfully still with us at 98 years young, served on HMS Tapir and was on board when she torpedoed U-486 North West of Bergen whilst they were both submerged in April 1945. U-486 infamously sank the SS Léopoldville on Christmas Eve 1944, resulting in the death of 763 U.S. solders and 56 crew.
Enjoyed this. About to start reading Arthur Hezlet's book about his time in TRENCHANT, which culminates with what was arguably the finest attack of WW2.
Well, the Ashikaga's captain was forced by Captain Hezlett's attack into a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. On the port side, a rocky reef; to starboard, 8 torpedoes coming in hot, straight and normal, with bad intentions written on them. He tried the lesser option, trying to comb the wakes, iirc, but he failed, due to size and turning radius of Ashikaga, and well, the rest was history.
My father served on HMS Thrasher in 1944/5; she ran out of Trincomalee and seemed to mainly to deal with "supply vessels" (Chinese Junks) and inserting/lifting special operations on the islands of the Dutch East Indies. I have some photographs of the crew stopping and searching of one of these small merchant vessels, which mostly seemed to carry rice and other food, but they did find a BSA motorcycle on board one....which would not fit through the hatch, so had to be sent to the bottom with the Junk.
A particularly noteworthy event involving one of this class is the story of HMS Terrapin who survived a brutal depth charging by a Japanese escort vessels but was utterly crippled and unable to submerge or make full speed with a long journey to back home. She was fortunately spotted by the USS Cavalla who escorted her on the surface through dangerous waters all the way to Fremantle.
The History Guy covered that incident in his channel, BTW. As for USS Cavalla (the legendary slayer of the Japanese aircraft carrier Shokaku), she is now preserved as a museum ship in Galveston, Texas.
@@kristoffermangila I'm well aware of both. I live in Houston. I've seen Cavalla a few times in person. I'd like to see Drach cover the event in his ever so entertaining manner.
Thank you my friend(s). As my dad was CPO Jesse J. Bryant electrician, submarines Atlantic 1946-67, I like it here. Of course us boiler technicians used to call them ‘light bulb changers🙄(shows how sorted out our U.S.S. Gridley CG-21 was). I bet he had some cool stories. He never talked and I never asked. Just stuck to my submarine novels I.e.”Torpedo running straight,hot, and normal.” Now we have Drachinifel😉😎!!!
My grandad served on thunderbolt with commander lucky crouch and various other subs joined before the war and served through out 2nd world war on subs was also part of crew that transferred a sub to Turkey during the war and was torpedoed leaving Alex on the medway
Surprised about this, The T Class Submarines, among the other Royal Navy Submarines of WW2 seems quite Fascinating but somehow Overshadowed and Underrated. Wish More facts about RN Submarines will be uncovered.
The Mark 14''s were American Torpedoes. They would have used British Torpedoes. Now - the Americans, British and Germans all tried to get Magnetic Influence Torpedoes to work - but - they all gave up on it. The thing is - the Mark 14 torpedoes the Americans used had more problems than the Magnetic Influence Detonators - where as other than their failed Magnetic Influence Exploders - the German and British Torpedoes - were fine. .
Drach, just a clarification on the Thetis disaster. What happened was that the drain cock on a torpedo tube's inboard door was blocked by paint, so when they turned it on to check that the outboard door was in fact closed (as they thought) nothing came out. Thinking the tube outer door was closed they opened the inner door - with disastrous results.
Our inner torpedo tube doors had the same drain cock, but also had a probe which was used to ensure debris hadn't blocked the port. It was put there to prevent a Thetis type incident.
@@dakohli They had the same on Thetis, but I suppose they didn't think they'd need to use it on a brand new boat. The Torpedo Officer later said he was used to using such a device as part of routine housekeeping not part of the drill for opening the door. (Presumably would delay things in action?)
@@sean_d interesting, I can say that whenever we opened the inner doors, we used that tool, it was part of the checklist. Considering how long it takes to actually load a tube at sea, I don't think checking the port would make much of a difference time-wise.
@@dakohli If you don't mind me being curious how long did it take? And would you do drills with someone timing it? (BTW not sure it's ok to mention on another channel but I did a video on the detail of the Thetis tragedy and would love a submariner's verdict).
@@sean_d We did do drills. The TI would normally time the boys. As to how long it would take, I don't rightly recall. On the Ojibwa, only two tubes had a hydraulic ram, the lower ones (5&6 if memory serves). These are the only two that could be reloaded at sea. I'm not sure that we even carried all of the gear to allow that. Getting back to the question, first reload port and stbd would be the fastest as the fish are right there in the racks. Then the reloads start to slow down as you have to shift torpedoes in the racks to line up with the tubes. If it is too rough, then it is next to impossible to use the chain hoist safely. But, I'm pretty sure you could have your 1st reloads within 10-20 min depending on the crew and conditions.
Any chance on a special on HMS Thetis ? Maybe a comparison to the USS Squalus as I can’t help feel that they represent the opposites of competence when faced with a disaster
Re the INS Dakar [or in Hebrew אח"י דקר], to clear up any potential misconceptions its name is not a reference to the Senegalese city, but rather the Hebrew word for swordfish. Also if anyone is interested, part of her sail and bridge were salvaged and are on display as a memorial at the Haifa Naval Museum.
Great job as ever, Drach...any chance we could get a guide on the Treasury Class US Coast Guard cutters for your next round? Pound for pound (or ton for ton) a very potent fighting ship and a great convoy escort.
Great channel. Could you do a series on what happens to US Navy ships when they are decommissioned and given to other Navies? You could feature the USS Trippe FF 1075. Thanks
Very interesting Drachinifel (as always) thank you. One incident which has intrigued me since I first read about it (years & years ago) was HMS Sidon (P259 - S Class) - a faulty torpedo (hydrogen peroxide?) exploding whilst being loaded in Portland Harbour - perhaps you'd do a take on that one?
When I was writing for a small foreign policy shop in Northern VA, I prepared an analysis about the KURSK just after her loss. HMS SIDON was the first thing to come to mind. HMS EXPLODER and HMS EXCRUCIATOR were close behind. The USN X-1 also fits in there. The USN Mark 16 torpedo along with the Mark 17 also came to mind.
My Father, John Ferrie served on HMS TIGRIS, as a radio engineer/ sonar. He was on board when when Tigris pulled into Malta for shore leave. I Father had to attend the medical facility when the Submarine was called out suddenly, so was left behind. That was the ship's last voyage, all hands, my dad's ship mates being lost. It could have been a different story for me if he had been aboard when she went, though I wonder what difference would have been made if he had been there ? Nevertheless the Tigris did have one survivor, John Ferrie, My Dad.
I bought a picture at a car boot and when reframing it behind the signed Vulcan peint was a B &W print of this class of Submarine - I often wondered what it was it looked as id it was around WW2 period
Very good on a subject I have always had questions on - particulary the post war rebuilds - were these exactly like the GUPPY converion the US Navy did or were they different? There is a surprising lack of information, which I kinda of accept as they were subs so there is more secrecy. Is there a good source of information or a book that I could pick upon that gives more detail ?
Absolutely love the T-Class! Appreciate this video is a year old but do we have any specific information of how the klaxon was used on RN submarines in WW2 - I’ve heard two bursts to dive and two in shorter succession to crash dive (but I’ve also heard one long sound of the klaxon for that too), I’m not sure if there was one for surfacing too?
Have you read Saul David's "SBS Silent Warriors"? If not, I recommend it. It's slightly tangential, but it involves lots of daring submariner-ing, scary canoeing, and too much swimming.
A direct comparison would be useful. We all know the US Subs, because they had a certain uniformity. But British designs were quite various. Side by side would be pretty informative, and I already know a lot.
People tend to forget that with the fall of the dutch east indies and quite some losses of the dutch navy they still where a formidable forse with replacing their lost submarines with british submarines including the T class . and quite succesfull as well . not as succesfull as they where in the first months of the war due to the fall of Java and their bases moved to australia but you get the idea .
When talking of losses, although not wartime you didn't mention HMS Truculent. She was sunk in the Thames estuary in 1950 following a collision with SS Divina, and I believe she was subsequently broken up at T W Ward & Son @ Grays. That part may be incorrect but I remember being taken to see a submarine by my father and Wards was the only local shipbreaker that I can recall. HMS Thetis, latterly Thunderbolt, was sunk in 1943.
When I was a youngster at work a chap younger than I am now was telling me he was on the Tally Ho when she made the first submerged crossing of the Atlantic. It turns out another ex salt colleague was also in subs and was on the Sanguine, apparently there is some inverse snobbery scale and the smaller the craft, the more of a submariner you were. The stories didn't dry up, but he just chose when to tell me them.
Here is hope again that Drach sees this! Drach could you make a guide to the Sargo Class Submarines? (SS-188 - SS-197) because my great grandfather served aboard the Saury SS-189 as a machinist mate.
Why do we never hear about British Submarines in WW2? It's difficult to get and data on operations and submariner stories? Only the X craft seam to be publicised.
I have a question about the cargo submarines used by Germany during WW1. I know they were turned into milk cows . Were they to expensive for the amount of cargo they carried? Also why didn't Germany have many of these built going into WW2?
Please explain submarine water resistance I assume that cutting water surface tension is less than total surface area (wetted area) is less, therefore the faster speed on the surface?
Plus the way the bow pressure waves interact with the hull. Post your question in the pinned post and Drach may cover it in Q&A (if he hasn't done it before)
I wonder if the British profiles of their subs didn't encourage their Japanese opponents, when spotting them, to think 'oh, well, it's definitely not American. Must be one of ours...."
It's been revealed that the admiralty on the sinking of HMS thetis refused to let a hole to be cut in the stern bit sticking out of the water to save the crew because it would have destroyed the submarine. So they let those poor guys die a horrible death. The salvage guys said they could have cut an escape hole in 5 minutes.
I've read about this incident - the Oxley strayed outside its own patrol area into that of another submarine, Triton. Triton spotted Oxley on the surface at night and tried signalling it but got no reply so assumed it was hostile and torpedoed it. Oxley's commander and one crewman survived and were picked up by Triton.
Sadly none of the Ts were preserved; part of the sail and bridge of the sunken INS Dakar (ex-HMS Totem) was salvaged by the Israeli Navy from the Med a few years ago and is now preserved as a memorial at the Haifa Naval Museum.
Pinned post for Q&A :)
You did excellent documentary on Earnest King. Can we expect something similar on Chester Nimitz.
How much bigger the British pacific fleet was going to become during the late ww2 pacific campaign if the original plan for operation downfall continued its course?, how much ships does the Royal Navy could include apart from the ones that were part of it historically
You had shown a video of the USS Enterprise maneuvering hard during an air attack. I was wondering if there's additional videos of him maneuvering a ship and what was his service record? I also don't remember which ship it was, but I remember it being a carrier. The carrier was on fire and it was spreading in the hanger. The captain decided to go flank and turn hard. It worked and the fire and fire fighting water went overboard.
Could you do a video discussion on steam turbine powered submarines? The German k50 class planned design is particularly fascinating
Thanks for the excellent naval history!
Have you done, or could you do, a video (or perhaps a Drydock segment) on the advantages, disadvantages, and peculiarities of the amidships "Q" turrets of WW1-era dreadnoughts?
Many thanks!
Thanks for this overview of the T-class. My late father served on them in the late ‘50s and early ‘60s, being posted twice in Australia. He was an ASDIC/SONAR operator on the Talemachus and Taciturn.
One story he told me was of the time he crewed an old T-class (I forget which one) from Australia to Britain to be decommissioned and scrapped. Each year of life of a submarine reduces the safe depth to which it may dive - this submarine was so old it could not dive at all, so it had to make the whole journey on the surface. This is fine, of course, unless there is a storm and heavy sea. By their nature, submarines generally don’t fare well in heavy seas, so the normal routine is to dive beneath them. Well, as they passed through the Mediterranean, a major storm hit and they had no choice but to stay on the surface, bows into the oncoming waves. Again, by their nature, submarines are not designed to ride the waves, so each wave that came just rolled straight over them. Being on the surface requires an officer on watch duty. As the submarine was running on Diesel engines only, the conning tower hatch needed to be open for the air to be drawn down to the engines. But every time a wave came over, the hatch needed to be shut and sealed so that the sea didn’t come pouring in. My dad was the crewman tethered above the hatch - his job to shut the hatch when the officer called that a wave was about to hit, another crewman inside would turn the wheel to seal it. My dad and the officer would take deep breaths and wait until the wave had passed, then he would knock on the hatch for the man inside to release the seals, then both of them would pull and push with all their might to open the hatch. With the engines running and the hatch shut, the air pressure inside would drop, making opening the hatch an effort. And then the next wave would come and the procedure would be repeated, and again for each wave that passed for several hours. There was no time between waves for either my dad or the officer to be relieved - they just had to keep going until the storm had passed.
But my dad said that the worst part of the whole ordeal was that they received a distress signal from an Italian liner that was in serious trouble in the storm. They were the closest vessel and in normal circumstances they would have changed course to provide assistance. Unfortunately, if they had altered course the waves would have capsized them, so they were forced to sail on by, unable to offer aid.
My dad joined as a boy seaman at the age of 15. He was serving on the Barfleur at 16, during the Suez crisis. He volunteered to join the submarine service at the age of 17, setting the record for the youngest submariner in the Royal Navy - shortly afterwards, the system was changed and the minimum age limit was set at 18.
My father’s father served on S-class submarines before, during and after WWII (and he had some stories), and his father served on the infamous K-class in the ‘20s.
Salute to that brave submariner. He really earned his fish.
Sounds like you came from a family of bubbleheads. Damn, that is the kind of story that would get your dad free beers at the veteran's hall.😃🍺
Did the liner make it through the storm?
@@vikkimcdonough6153 I don’t know the fate of the liner, my dad was vague about that. Whether he didn’t know or knew but didn’t want to say was hard to tell and I didn’t push him on it.
That's one heck of a story. Much respect to the silent service.
Would like an in depth look at the Warrior armoured cruiser. One of my great uncles (Richard Walter William Jenkins) was one of the men sweped out of her when the engin room was holed. He survived and was rescued later.
Amen. A very notable ship, with quite the coincidental connection to HMS Warspite.
A suicidal charge, nearly run over by the flagship Lion and rescued by a meer turn of fate with Warspites shocking arrival. That is interesting and mad. Family story here my relatives mother was told he was dead but knew he was not. Even when oficialy told he was dead. She had seen a vision of him going overboard backwards. He denied ot untill her dying day and then admited it after her death. She knew he was ok because he ha been born in a caul so could not drown.
i went to see hms warrior today, such a beautiful ship.
So if 3 first names are serial killers what's it mean when you have 4 hahahaha
@@jonathancrosby1583 Boss Serial Killer.
My father-in-law served aboard HMS Tiptoe. He chose subs initially for the extra money small ship/subs offered. Starting 6 weeks before the end of WW2, he went through his career getting his commission in his late 20's. He went to Hawaii to do his nuclear stuff before joining HMS Warspite and finishing with Vickers developing the Resolution Class SSBN's. Great guy, sadly missed. RIP Cdr Walter (Tim) Holt RN.
"Tiptoe" is a clever name for a submarine.
Thanks, my grandfather served on the group three boats Telelmachus and Tactician.
My great uncle served on a T-class, HMS Triad. He was on board when she had an extremely close surface engagement with an Italian submarine (Enrico Toti) in the Ionian sea in October 1940, which resulted in her sinking. Triad went down with her entire crew in about 1500-2000m of water after apparently receiving multiple hits from Italian sub's deck gun while attempting to dive. Due to the depth of the water she went down in I don't think the wreck has ever even been located.
Edit: Just to add, I've just realised it was today's date in 1940 that the Triad was lost. Now that's a weird coincidence.
I served in HMCS Ojibwa, an Oberon Class boat. Our internal watertight doors were said to have come from a T-Boat that was being scrapped while OJ was being built. As a result, we had oval doors vice the round doors normally found on the Class.
A quick check of T Class scrapping dates compared to _Ojibwa_ construction times would show these could be from either _Thule_ , _Tudor_ or _Trenchant_
Another win for the British Navy in naming: Truncheon, Truculent, Tetrarch...wikipedia also lists Tempest, Truant(!), Trident, Thunderbolt, Thorn, Taurus. Strangest to me would be Tally-Ho, and least intimidating is Tuna. EDIT: Also, Tiptoe.
Tuna are pretty dangerous predators in their own right you wouldn't think so considering most searches about how dangerous or lethal they are bring up pages of results on Mercury poisoning when you eat them but large Tuna can hunt small shark if they want to they just prefer smaller prey most of the time.
The T class are among my favorite subs, so lethal looking with all the the forward external torpedo tubes, shame they didn't get to stay in the east for their intented role.....who knows what some 'functional' torpedoes might have done to the IJN in 41-42.
Yes, with IJN ASW being... well, the way that it was, these things probably would have reaped a serious toll if they had been able to operate over there. Unfortunately, like with basically everything else, the material demands of fighting in every theatre made it impossible
If someone showed me a T-Class out of the blue, I thought it was dressed up to look cooler for some post-apocalyptic sci-fi submarine movie. Nope, they were that lethal looking.
It truly speaks to the abilities and value of the T class that the Royal Navy didn't decommission the last one until 1969. I was 9 and in Louisiana. I would have LOVED to traipse through one as I had through WW II fleet subs during Portland's Rose Festival Fleet Weeks before we moved to the South. Ahhhhh...
The wide-eyed wonder of youth!!!
Of the T class boats, " Tally Ho " is still my favorite for both her count and SOE operations. Captain Bennington was a great submariner.
Hey Drach, a video on the Royal Navy's submarine war in the Pacific War would be interesting and something not normally covered.
T-class T-posing on the 23% of the total number of Axis subs lost to allied subs
Always a big sad when choosing submarines in Azur Lane and seeing an empty port when "HMS" is selected in the filter :feelsbadman:
@@Afterscience742 eventually skk
@@Afterscience742 AL needs to introduce the damn British submarines into the game.
@@Afterscience742 Interestingly, KanColle also doesn't have any British subs yet (aside from Japanese subs, there's currently one American, one German, and one Italian).
@@merafirewing6591 Welp, we have more HMS ships on the way. Still no submarines. Not even surprised at this point🤣
I'd like to hear you do a guide on the Royal Navy's K class fleet submarines some time! LOL.
One of the best submariner quotes ever came from the captain of a K class "I say number one, my end is diving, what the hell is your end doing?"
he's done a guide on them before
@@AsbestosMuffins Unless my Google Fu is failing as badly as a K Class, he hasn't done a standalone video on them. He covers them as his review of The World's Worst Warships and in his list of naval engineering botches, but I can't find a separate video on just the class.
Only the Brits could have a line of steam powered subs.
@@mindwarp42 Fredrick Knudsen has a really good video on the K-class.
@@thelittleredhairedgirlfrom6527 Considering I replied on best fat nutted owl's May Island video, I've seen it. 😉
I grew up in small Cornish port on the north coast, our harbour master then was the first diver to enter HMS Thetis after she sank, it was an event that he never spoke about in all the time my father knew him. Also our local fish'n'chip shop owner's father had been a sniper in the Great War (WW1) and suffered the fate of a German artillery barrage to silence him. He had lost his sight and hearing from this. Used to see him propped up in a corner with his dark glasses on, totally immobile till closing time - weird!
Post war I visited Tabard as small child so don't remember much about the visit. As I recall one major wartime improvement was the air conditioning.
My uncle was serving on Tetrarch when she disappeared in Oct 42, presumed lost in a minefield off Sicily, a little over a year before he was on HMS Rodney whilst she battered the Bismarck into a smoking hulk
RIP Jacob Rowland
0
Many years ago when I was involved in the ASW business I recall chasing T boats on passive sonar. They made a hell of a din, you could hear them from miles away.
probably one of the sexiest sub designs ever
So early the Vasa didn’t sink yet
So early people still think Beattie was competent
LMAO
Too soon!
My father, thankfully still with us at 98 years young, served on HMS Tapir and was on board when she torpedoed U-486 North West of Bergen whilst they were both submerged in April 1945.
U-486 infamously sank the SS Léopoldville on Christmas Eve 1944, resulting in the death of 763 U.S. solders and 56 crew.
The T class always amazed me especially considering they were designed with such a heavy torpedo load in order to hunt warships.
Gotta love the idea of an underwater volley gun of this size.
The Japanese heavy cruiser Ashikaga learned about that capability the hard way...
@@kristoffermangila To be fair damage control on the Japanese side meant a half salvo was still likely overkill.
At last! I have waited for a guide of the T-class. Let's hope for more videos about british subs.
Enjoyed this. About to start reading Arthur Hezlet's book about his time in TRENCHANT, which culminates with what was arguably the finest attack of WW2.
Well, the Ashikaga's captain was forced by Captain Hezlett's attack into a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. On the port side, a rocky reef; to starboard, 8 torpedoes coming in hot, straight and normal, with bad intentions written on them. He tried the lesser option, trying to comb the wakes, iirc, but he failed, due to size and turning radius of Ashikaga, and well, the rest was history.
@@kristoffermangila Well that saves me having to read the book! :)
My father served on HMS Thrasher in 1944/5; she ran out of Trincomalee and seemed to mainly to deal with "supply vessels" (Chinese Junks) and inserting/lifting special operations on the islands of the Dutch East Indies. I have some photographs of the crew stopping and searching of one of these small merchant vessels, which mostly seemed to carry rice and other food, but they did find a BSA motorcycle on board one....which would not fit through the hatch, so had to be sent to the bottom with the Junk.
A particularly noteworthy event involving one of this class is the story of HMS Terrapin who survived a brutal depth charging by a Japanese escort vessels but was utterly crippled and unable to submerge or make full speed with a long journey to back home. She was fortunately spotted by the USS Cavalla who escorted her on the surface through dangerous waters all the way to Fremantle.
The History Guy covered that incident in his channel, BTW.
As for USS Cavalla (the legendary slayer of the Japanese aircraft carrier Shokaku), she is now preserved as a museum ship in Galveston, Texas.
@@kristoffermangila I'm well aware of both. I live in Houston. I've seen Cavalla a few times in person. I'd like to see Drach cover the event in his ever so entertaining manner.
Thank you my friend(s). As my dad was CPO Jesse J. Bryant electrician, submarines Atlantic 1946-67, I like it here. Of course us boiler technicians used to call them ‘light bulb changers🙄(shows how sorted out our U.S.S. Gridley CG-21 was). I bet he had some cool stories. He never talked and I never asked. Just stuck to my submarine novels I.e.”Torpedo running straight,hot, and normal.” Now we have Drachinifel😉😎!!!
Thanks as always Drach! Could imagine serving on a 2nd hand WW2 submarine in the 1970's could have been a rather dicey affair 😬.
Try in 2020! Taiwan still uses her Tench class subs which did war patrols in WW-2
Could you do a look into HMS Tartar F43/G43. She never gets enough love. She was in the thick fighting the entire war and survived to the end.
Uss argonaught would be a cool one to do
My grandad served on thunderbolt with commander lucky crouch and various other subs joined before the war and served through out 2nd world war on subs was also part of crew that transferred a sub to Turkey during the war and was torpedoed leaving Alex on the medway
Surprised about this, The T Class Submarines, among the other Royal Navy Submarines of WW2 seems quite Fascinating but somehow Overshadowed and Underrated. Wish More facts about RN Submarines will be uncovered.
Please do more RN submarines!
The RN Submarine Service seemed to have a real talent for ASW work.
Based on the kill numbers, it would be assumed they didn't use MK 14 torpedoes...
The Mark 14''s were American Torpedoes. They would have used British Torpedoes. Now - the Americans, British and Germans all tried to get Magnetic Influence Torpedoes to work - but - they all gave up on it.
The thing is - the Mark 14 torpedoes the Americans used had more problems than the Magnetic Influence Detonators - where as other than their failed Magnetic Influence Exploders - the German and British Torpedoes - were fine.
.
No, they would have been using the British Mk 8 torpedo... Which HMS Conqueror used to sink the Belgrano...
@@johncunningham6928 C'mon, folks- it was obviously a joke...
Great stuff. Finally a sub review. Please review the E class. My grandfather served on E31.
Drach, just a clarification on the Thetis disaster. What happened was that the drain cock on a torpedo tube's inboard door was blocked by paint, so when they turned it on to check that the outboard door was in fact closed (as they thought) nothing came out. Thinking the tube outer door was closed they opened the inner door - with disastrous results.
Our inner torpedo tube doors had the same drain cock, but also had a probe which was used to ensure debris hadn't blocked the port. It was put there to prevent a Thetis type incident.
@@dakohli They had the same on Thetis, but I suppose they didn't think they'd need to use it on a brand new boat. The Torpedo Officer later said he was used to using such a device as part of routine housekeeping not part of the drill for opening the door. (Presumably would delay things in action?)
@@sean_d interesting, I can say that whenever we opened the inner doors, we used that tool, it was part of the checklist. Considering how long it takes to actually load a tube at sea, I don't think checking the port would make much of a difference time-wise.
@@dakohli If you don't mind me being curious how long did it take? And would you do drills with someone timing it? (BTW not sure it's ok to mention on another channel but I did a video on the detail of the Thetis tragedy and would love a submariner's verdict).
@@sean_d We did do drills. The TI would normally time the boys. As to how long it would take, I don't rightly recall. On the Ojibwa, only two tubes had a hydraulic ram, the lower ones (5&6 if memory serves). These are the only two that could be reloaded at sea. I'm not sure that we even carried all of the gear to allow that. Getting back to the question, first reload port and stbd would be the fastest as the fish are right there in the racks. Then the reloads start to slow down as you have to shift torpedoes in the racks to line up with the tubes. If it is too rough, then it is next to impossible to use the chain hoist safely. But, I'm pretty sure you could have your 1st reloads within 10-20 min depending on the crew and conditions.
Any chance on a special on HMS Thetis ? Maybe a comparison to the USS Squalus as I can’t help feel that they represent the opposites of competence when faced with a disaster
I just love the T-class's super-aggressive forward profile. It's just begging for a shark mouth to be painted on it.
It looks like the beginnings of bulbous bows, doesn't it? Noise reasons? Hydrodynamics? That might be a whole show.
The development of it might make a movie...lol
@@georgesoros6415 it is full of extra external torpedo tubes
Interesting video, although it made me realize that I knew little of Royal Navy submarine operations beforehand. Perhaps a good subject for a video?
Re the INS Dakar [or in Hebrew אח"י דקר], to clear up any potential misconceptions its name is not a reference to the Senegalese city, but rather the Hebrew word for swordfish.
Also if anyone is interested, part of her sail and bridge were salvaged and are on display as a memorial at the Haifa Naval Museum.
I looking forward to an April fools video on the British Tea Class, best brewing and Tea service in the fleet!
Great job as ever, Drach...any chance we could get a guide on the Treasury Class US Coast Guard cutters for your next round? Pound for pound (or ton for ton) a very potent fighting ship and a great convoy escort.
Please do more early submarines.
Great channel. Could you do a series on what happens to US Navy ships when they are decommissioned and given to other Navies? You could feature the USS Trippe FF 1075. Thanks
Very interesting Drachinifel (as always) thank you. One incident which has intrigued me since I first read about it (years & years ago) was HMS Sidon (P259 - S Class) - a faulty torpedo (hydrogen peroxide?) exploding whilst being loaded in Portland Harbour - perhaps you'd do a take on that one?
When I was writing for a small foreign policy shop in Northern VA, I prepared an analysis about the KURSK just after her loss. HMS SIDON was the first thing to come to mind. HMS EXPLODER and HMS EXCRUCIATOR were close behind. The USN X-1 also fits in there. The USN Mark 16 torpedo along with the Mark 17 also came to mind.
Thanks David. USS Scorpion (USS Scrapiron, according to some of the crew)?
Hold up. The T class killed 23% of axis subs killed by subs?! You can't just gloss over that. This calls for a whole video.
I mean, yeah. What made this so? What made the T class usable to the late 70s?
AGREED!
Finally another submarine entry
My Father, John Ferrie served on HMS TIGRIS, as a radio engineer/ sonar.
He was on board when when Tigris pulled into Malta for shore leave.
I Father had to attend the medical facility when the Submarine was called out suddenly, so was left behind. That was the ship's last voyage, all hands, my dad's ship mates being lost. It could have been a different story for me if he had been aboard when she went, though I wonder what difference would have been made if he had been there ? Nevertheless the Tigris did have one survivor, John Ferrie, My Dad.
My personal favourite British submarines
Great work Sir thank you
british subs look so friggin cool
My father was on Templar until 43 then Taku until wars end !
I bought a picture at a car boot and when reframing it behind the signed Vulcan peint was a B &W print of this class of Submarine - I often wondered what it was it looked as id it was around WW2 period
I'd also recommend Paul J. Kemp's book which focuses specifically on the T-class.
Could you do a video on the japanese the submarine fleet and tactics?
Thanks. Always like to learn about subs.
The only trouble with external tubes is that external torpedoes that are not readily accessible are also not usually readily reliable.
Amazing that WWII era subs served into the 1970s, since submarine technology and design has changed so radically since the 1940s.
Very good on a subject I have always had questions on - particulary the post war rebuilds - were these exactly like the GUPPY converion the US Navy did or were they different? There is a surprising lack of information, which I kinda of accept as they were subs so there is more secrecy. Is there a good source of information or a book that I could pick upon that gives more detail ?
Yes, same concept: Streamlining (new sail etc) and a section added amidships to increase battery capacity and engine power.
Plus the deletion of the two top (non-reloadable) torpedo tubes.
We Dive at Dawn!
Absolutely love the T-Class!
Appreciate this video is a year old but do we have any specific information of how the klaxon was used on RN submarines in WW2 - I’ve heard two bursts to dive and two in shorter succession to crash dive (but I’ve also heard one long sound of the klaxon for that too), I’m not sure if there was one for surfacing too?
HMS Thetis once raised ws beached on Angelsey. The crew is buried at the cemetrt st Holyhead Anglesey in.asss grabr
the Ten Torpedo Volley would be devistating unless it was using the US Navy Mark 14 torpedo lol.....
there really needs to be a Drach and HI Sutton collab for subs and combat swimmer topics (ww1 and ww2)
Have you read Saul David's "SBS Silent Warriors"? If not, I recommend it. It's slightly tangential, but it involves lots of daring submariner-ing, scary canoeing, and too much swimming.
@@LukeBunyipnot yet. thanks for the info, I'll try to read that book👍
Drach, how about a comparison between uboats, British subs, and US
subs of WW2. Armament, endurance, operational success.
A direct comparison would be useful. We all know the US Subs, because they had a certain uniformity. But British designs were quite various. Side by side would be pretty informative, and I already know a lot.
People tend to forget that with the fall of the dutch east indies and quite some losses of the dutch navy they still where a formidable forse with replacing their lost submarines with british submarines including the T class . and quite succesfull as well . not as succesfull as they where in the first months of the war due to the fall of Java and their bases moved to australia but you get the idea .
The Dutch really deserve a better reputation as a warrior nation.
Ah yes... I used to have a laugh when a wargame player used one of these and his oponent had to watch him go through all the dice rolls....
T-Class, perhaps a prelude to Drach's Halloween special for two truly spooky types? The reputation of "MK", isn't just for brutal fighting games...
Thanks my dad served on them
When talking of losses, although not wartime you didn't mention HMS Truculent. She was sunk in the Thames estuary in 1950 following a collision with SS Divina, and I believe she was subsequently broken up at T W Ward & Son @ Grays. That part may be incorrect but I remember being taken to see a submarine by my father and Wards was the only local shipbreaker that I can recall.
HMS Thetis, latterly Thunderbolt, was sunk in 1943.
Fascinating
When I was a youngster at work a chap younger than I am now was telling me he was on the Tally Ho when she made the first submerged crossing of the Atlantic. It turns out another ex salt colleague was also in subs and was on the Sanguine, apparently there is some inverse snobbery scale and the smaller the craft, the more of a submariner you were. The stories didn't dry up, but he just chose when to tell me them.
How about a review of the H.M.S. Psyche?
Question: have 2 warships of the same class ever fought each other? If so, what were the results?
They were employed around east indies hunting uboats of the monsoon group!
A review on the USS Little Rock , cleveland class light cruiser that still exists today as a museum ship .
Any chance of a video on the Japanese Myoko class cruisers?
Any chance of a video on the x craft British midget submarine class
Good review
Another great overview. As a suggestion, how about the Royal Navy K-class submarines? (apologoies if this has been done already).
Here is hope again that Drach sees this! Drach could you make a guide to the Sargo Class Submarines? (SS-188 - SS-197) because my great grandfather served aboard the Saury SS-189 as a machinist mate.
Omg.
I was just done with Crawford and the Rök Stone, and wanted to watch Gun Jesus vs Ziga, but a new Drach video... 17th view.
I stand corrected - at least in half! Trusty and Truant will be mentioned here!
Drack Any chance of you doing a vlog on the Kalamity K Class submarines , One of my Uncles served on them and survived . Cheers
Why do we never hear about British Submarines in WW2? It's difficult to get and data on operations and submariner stories? Only the X craft seam to be publicised.
I have a question about the cargo submarines used by Germany during WW1. I know they were turned into milk cows . Were they to expensive for the amount of cargo they carried? Also why didn't Germany have many of these built going into WW2?
Coming soon to World of Warships, or at least something that looks like it.
Please explain submarine water resistance
I assume that cutting water surface tension is less than total surface area (wetted area) is less, therefore the faster speed on the surface?
Yes, plus the huge resistance offered by the guns and conning tower. The external tubes didn't help much either.
Plus the way the bow pressure waves interact with the hull. Post your question in the pinned post and Drach may cover it in Q&A (if he hasn't done it before)
I wonder if the British profiles of their subs didn't encourage their Japanese opponents, when spotting them, to think 'oh, well, it's definitely not American. Must be one of ours...."
was thinking the same-famous last words.
I always thought the high rise bow was for sea keeping - now I know. Also, I learned a new word - "poofumance".
very nice. how 'bout the K class?
Must…not…make…T-pose…jokes…
It's been revealed that the admiralty on the sinking of HMS thetis refused to let a hole to be cut in the stern bit sticking out of the water to save the crew because it would have destroyed the submarine. So they let those poor guys die a horrible death. The salvage guys said they could have cut an escape hole in 5 minutes.
A video on Dutch subs would be nice, considering their development (by secret subsidiaries of Germaniawerft) and success in the war.
The Dutch dont get enough credit.
@@jimwind7589 we like it like that :P always hiding in the shadows, but no less lethal .
*USS Cod has entered the chat*
Modell T (underwater Edition)
5:30 Accidentally sinks a allied submarine.
"I don't think that is going to become a pattern, right?"
I've read about this incident - the Oxley strayed outside its own patrol area into that of another submarine, Triton. Triton spotted Oxley on the surface at night and tried signalling it but got no reply so assumed it was hostile and torpedoed it. Oxley's commander and one crewman survived and were picked up by Triton.
Are any of these subs still around preserved some where?
Sadly none of the Ts were preserved; part of the sail and bridge of the sunken INS Dakar (ex-HMS Totem) was salvaged by the Israeli Navy from the Med a few years ago and is now preserved as a memorial at the Haifa Naval Museum.
When the British took an approach to torpedoes like the Americans did for guns:
"How many torpedoes do you want?"
"Yes."
I really hope to see this vessel added to War Thunder.