It's interesting how there is no other electronics vlogs that are enjoyable.I mean this guy made me watch a review a device I'm not even interested in.
+mikeselectricstuff I wonder if the traces visible on the bottom of the package (with the footprint labelled keep out) are actually part of the inductor winding. They certainly look like they might be a winding.
Dave looks like a double oven reflow job, they might have placed the passives first. It just looks like the passives drifted off their pad a bit, and then the actives were put down. You can see a lot of bubbling in the solder joint. Anyways you were showing a bunch of inductors in a group time 9:39 that might indicate config options. But to me they would just change the DAC board in front to change the instrument frequency. Well Dave totally COOL review of a product, nice in and out shot. 4k review might have to wait for some of us to see. But keep your electrons flowing and don't get shorted Cheers.
Dave! Please review a nanovoltmeter or an electrometer. I'd like to see some low-level measurement stuff, triax connection best practices. Tribo-electric effect on cables, tens of gigaohms measurements, etc.
+Pete Brown To be fair, it is probably more than they need with that tiny fan. They just used a perforated sheet and called it done. I imagine they knew what they were doing. Dave does not like their sheet-metal work, but I find it pleasing. I've become so used to things made of foil-lined plastic that it's refreshing to see metal at all. I like it.
+Avinash Lewis Yeah. It just seemed poorly thought out to have that ribbon cable right in the way of the airflow. I'm going to go with "didn't consider it" as the likely reason. :)
That's actually a really common TI processor, I'm surprised you haven't heard of it - all the BeagleBones (both white and black) use an AM335x series MPU. At least for prototyping and the like they're very common around my university, it seems like I pull up the datasheet every week.
+Steve Brace 0.5mm is not bad it probably looks worse do the the height of that part and the larger parts around it. I have to deal with a 0.4mm pin pitch QFN part in my last project and that is a bit more problematic.
Hi Dave, I've designed boards with the Enpirion regulators with both Xilinx and Lattice FPGAs. This was before Altera bought Enpirion. The FPGA might not be Altera!
those Sitara processors are great. I haven't used one myself yet, but they are capable with EtherCAT, the only chip with integrated EtherCAT that is on the market I believe. Those chips look like they are a beauty for motion control as well.
Dave,I know it is off topic, but a video that I would LOVE to see you do is a full length tutorial on repairing zebra strips on meters.I have done a couple, and turned them from faded to brand new. But I have one more to do, and I know that it doesn't always work to just clean the edge of the strip.I also have a calculator to do.Aside from cleaning the edge with alchohol, has anybody ever tried "shaving" the edge with a scalpel or sharp razor blade just by a "knat's balls hair", as you would say? Obviously it would have to be a VERY tiny sliver that would be removed, otherwise you would have to shim the presure on the zebra slightly.What do you think? Think about all the tech's out there who could benefit from learning out how to bring zebra strips (and hence meters) back to life!All the best....
the main cpu sample family as on the beagle bone, they are definitely running linux for controlling the touch screen , may be using something like Qt for the application.
Woot, AM335x. Same SoC as on the Beagle Bone Black. I'm into my 2nd year writing firmware on this IC. Psst, don;t look at the TRM, it's over 4000 pages.
Great Job!! Congratulations. One question: Which kind of camera (brand/model) are you using for recording such great details full focused? Everything can be seen in such details as I were touching the equipment by myself. If I could I would like to do the same for you with my Siglent SDG2042X and this will allow you to make a comparison between both. For sure we would learn even more for this extra analysis. Congratulations.for your superb blog.
the enpirion chips looks like as if it has the inducturs inside. I wouldn´t mind this part that much. Look at the CC3200 from Texas instrument for layout trouble.
I still think that the "don't turn it on" part is detrimental to the enjoyability of these videos. Spending something like 30 seconds to show what it looks like when turned on would not degrade the quality of the video, but the exact opposite. And nobody would certainly complain about it. Seeing how the device looks when turned on would be interesting to a casual viewer. It would not turn away pros. So what exactly is the harm? (And cue people defending the practice, with zero rational reasoning why.)
+T Komoski I don't necessarily have the expertise to say if that's kosher at 1.2GS/s but if there is half decent connection and mechanical hold, I don't think that's a signal critical issue. It's a very open non RF design so I'm guessing it's not an issue. Some local examination could be interesting. Maybe ultrasound agitation. Not sure what would be a disciplined test. Xray maybe. Have Mike take a gander :)
Did I see a warranty seal? I didn't see a warranty seal did I? Where is the warranty seal? How the frik can they put something on the market without an warranty seal? This is not how the world functions. I'm very disturbed by the lack of warranty seal.
+Mark Henderson You don't have to view in 4K. In fact it's not real 4K, it upscaled 1080p. It's a test to see if UA-cam produces better quality 1080p footage from a 4K upscaled image (it is rumoured to)
+Mat Mabee I used to work in the same building as Dave and I can tell you there is zero chance of getting more than about 1/10th of that in that building. Lucky you :)
At 10:13 - the 10Mhz crystal - why is there so much space around the part? Does that help the stability? Also, there are four large holes around the part. Might that be for a temperature stabilizing can?
+cemx86 The extra space and holes allow for mounting an oscillator in and alternative package. The 014 package in this picture en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Crystal_Packages.jpg
Cooling flow through the middle "fence" between the CPU and power supply boards has lots of holes. Then most of the holes are blocked by a ribbon cable. I don't get that.
0.5mm pitch isn't too bad if you're using stencils and a hot air station. Many of the smaller switching regs from TI and LT are the same pitch. Not trivial, but still doable for us DIY guys. But... those ridiculous angled power pads are uncalled for. C'mon... what's the sense in that?
My internet connection will barely stream 1080 so I'm out of this one on resolution. I have noticed that footage uploaded in 4K seems to be more glitchy when watched at 720. Anybody else experience this?
EN2342QI is quite silly in it's design, they could just use 18-20 0,5mm pins with 1,27mm pitch around that chip and get away much more "designer friendly" package instead of this.
At 16:50 you said "Siglent SDG2000X seriesoscilloscope" ;) Kinda frightening how well these units are made for that price. If Siglent would use better green LEDs for the front panels there would be nothing to moan about.
Dave i love all your teardown videos with your excellent analysis, displaying the datasheets, zooming in on components, and explaining every little chip inside these things and the quality of the construction and design. I can't get enough! Everyone help support Dave on Patreon: www.patreon.com/eevblog?ty=h
Hey man! Is it true that all trigger outputs must send a pulse at the startpoint of a sweep? Cause I cannot get it to work on my SDG810, and I am not getting working response from the factory unfortunally.
So if this processor on this generator can support Android and Linux, then what OS does it have on it to begin with, and how and why would you change the OS anyway? It's proprietary, right? So what would you do with other OSes replacing that? Or does it support those OSes just because it's a somewhat common processor like the Motorola 68K series and the Intel series and compatibles (and even the MOS 65xx/85xx series), and we might see one in many tablets and phones? But even if that's the case, then still, what OS does this run on?
Someone make a circuit that can calculate the speed of a bicycle. What I have in mind is a magnet on the bike's wheel that will pass a coil and create a pulse of electric current. Then have a circuit count the time frame in between the pulses then do calculations based on the wheels circumference to find out the bikes speed. This will be displayed on a 2 digit 7-seg display. Too bad I don't understand electronics enough to create these kind of complicated circuits. Maybe someone out there can apply my idea. Or maybe it has already been done. Thank you.
+Joshua Rando definitely works, that's exactly the setup bicycle speedometers you'd buy from a bike store do use, its a nice little project, just need a microcontroller, inductive sensor with the same voltage requirement as your microcontroller, a 7 seg and probably less than 100 lines of code in total :) (i've done it myself except in my case i was measuring the engine RPM and wheel speed of a car for my universitys formula student team ^^)
With a permanent magnet on the wheel and a Reed contact on the frame, it's easier to do, you just need a frequency meter-like circuit, which can be analog or digital.
7:17 wank word,,, mwahha. yeah they really could have used a better name, other than that, its a beast, and really cost effective! $20 for A8 Soc processor... , really good price point. its not bad.
It's interesting how there is no other electronics vlogs that are enjoyable.I mean this guy made me watch a review a device I'm not even interested in.
That Enpirion part has a built-in inductor
+mikeselectricstuff I wonder if the traces visible on the bottom of the package (with the footprint labelled keep out) are actually part of the inductor winding. They certainly look like they might be a winding.
+ChumpusRex you can bet they are. That also explains why Dave calls it an unnecessarily huge package.
Dave looks like a double oven reflow job, they might have placed the passives first. It just looks like the passives drifted off their pad a bit, and then the actives were put down. You can see a lot of bubbling in the solder joint. Anyways you were showing a bunch of inductors in a group time 9:39 that might indicate config options. But to me they would just change the DAC board in front to change the instrument frequency. Well Dave totally COOL review of a product, nice in and out shot. 4k review might have to wait for some of us to see. But keep your electrons flowing and don't get shorted Cheers.
I'm so immature. "Nothing worse than busting your knob" indeed.
+Bigrignohio Dave is right there with you :)
+Bigrignohio To be fair that's what he meant. ;)
Dave! Please review a nanovoltmeter or an electrometer. I'd like to see some low-level measurement stuff, triax connection best practices. Tribo-electric effect on cables, tens of gigaohms measurements, etc.
Nice. They have a great big grill for airflow, and then cover 75% of it with a ribbon cable.
+Pete Brown And then you pointed it out. :)
+Pete Brown To be fair, it is probably more than they need with that tiny fan. They just used a perforated sheet and called it done. I imagine they knew what they were doing.
Dave does not like their sheet-metal work, but I find it pleasing. I've become so used to things made of foil-lined plastic that it's refreshing to see metal at all. I like it.
+Avinash Lewis Yeah. It just seemed poorly thought out to have that ribbon cable right in the way of the airflow. I'm going to go with "didn't consider it" as the likely reason. :)
The ribbon forces the airflow over the board, very clever design.
What a sharp and clean design, ive never seen a psu look so nice as well :-D
Looks like you get your moneys worth.
At 16:45 he calls it a Siglent SDS2000 X-series oscilloscope :)
Wicked review mate. Allways keeping the viewer's interested.
Teardown is the best part of my week
You broke the warranty seal!
Don't forget to reconnect the back panel connectors.
+John Kha I did almost forget that :->
+EEVblog you broke the sticker 3:00
I think the filter network following the DAC is a reconstruction filter (or anti-imaging filter); anti-aliasing is used with ADC.
That's actually a really common TI processor, I'm surprised you haven't heard of it - all the BeagleBones (both white and black) use an AM335x series MPU. At least for prototyping and the like they're very common around my university, it seems like I pull up the datasheet every week.
At about 16:48 does he say "that's a look inside the new Siglent SDS 2000X series oscilloscope..." LOL??
Awesome deal! I'm a fan of older stuff, but new is cool
"Look at the pin pitch on that bastard!" :)
+Steve Brace 0.5mm is not bad it probably looks worse do the the height of that part and the larger parts around it. I have to deal with a 0.4mm pin pitch QFN part in my last project and that is a bit more problematic.
+Steve Brace I seriously believe that Dave got wood at this point. LMAO !
***** Yes it looks that way because is 3mm tall and there are large parts around it but is just 0.5mm according to spec.
Hi Dave, I've designed boards with the Enpirion regulators with both Xilinx and Lattice FPGAs. This was before Altera bought Enpirion. The FPGA might not be Altera!
Thumbs up... even if you did call it an 'SDS 2000X Oscilloscope' in the round-up!
those Sitara processors are great. I haven't used one myself yet, but they are capable with EtherCAT, the only chip with integrated EtherCAT that is on the market I believe. Those chips look like they are a beauty for motion control as well.
You are truly an Oscilloscope lover and everywhere you see oscilloscopes..especially at slider pos @16:49
Wow, 4k is nice. It's like I can almost *touch* the poor solder joints on that board. :)
Nicely produced video Dave
Enpirion have really good converters. Using them in all my designs. You will understand when use one.
Dave,I know it is off topic, but a video that I would LOVE to see you do is a full length tutorial on repairing zebra strips on meters.I have done a couple, and turned them from faded to brand new. But I have one more to do, and I know that it doesn't always work to just clean the edge of the strip.I also have a calculator to do.Aside from cleaning the edge with alchohol, has anybody ever tried "shaving" the edge with a scalpel or sharp razor blade just by a "knat's balls hair", as you would say? Obviously it would have to be a VERY tiny sliver that would be removed, otherwise you would have to shim the presure on the zebra slightly.What do you think? Think about all the tech's out there who could benefit from learning out how to bring zebra strips (and hence meters) back to life!All the best....
You should do a video on filter caps brands, price differences and stuff.
the main cpu sample family as on the beagle bone, they are definitely running linux for controlling the touch screen , may be using something like Qt for the application.
+Gaurav Chaudhary i´m guessing just se same;)
+TubiCal they have different processors in different versions , but mainly they use AM3358 and AM3359
This Enpirion DC-DC is almost all in integrated. Only external components are input and output caps.
Neat uses the exact same processor as the BeagleBone.
+Joe Toney Ah, didn't know that.
Hey Dave, that EN2342QI package would be a great chip to de-cap on video !
I bet it's got some weird internals.
I prefer the 50fps full hd over the 4k
Woot, AM335x. Same SoC as on the Beagle Bone Black. I'm into my 2nd year writing firmware on this IC. Psst, don;t look at the TRM, it's over 4000 pages.
What a spec's for this price! Hm.... sold! Thx Dave to open :)
QC label is not for your confidence, rather for factory process ;)
It's a really thick package!
Great Job!! Congratulations.
One question: Which kind of camera (brand/model) are you using for recording such great details full focused? Everything can be seen in such details as I were touching the equipment by myself.
If I could I would like to do the same for you with my Siglent SDG2042X and this will allow you to make a comparison between both. For sure we would learn even more for this extra analysis.
Congratulations.for your superb blog.
Wow, it's interesting that that SD card slot isn't accessible through the case!
Just if nobody mentioned. The TI Sitara is quite famous: it powers the BeagleBone Black board.
I thought you weren't concerned with filming in 4K. What camera are you using?
Edit: I've seen your latest video.
+EEVblog "It's just a wankword they've pulled out of their backside..." C'mon Dave! Don't pull your punches :)
the enpirion chips looks like as if it has the inducturs inside. I wouldn´t mind this part that much. Look at the CC3200 from Texas instrument for layout trouble.
I still think that the "don't turn it on" part is detrimental to the enjoyability of these videos. Spending something like 30 seconds to show what it looks like when turned on would not degrade the quality of the video, but the exact opposite. And nobody would certainly complain about it.
Seeing how the device looks when turned on would be interesting to a casual viewer. It would not turn away pros. So what exactly is the harm?
(And cue people defending the practice, with zero rational reasoning why.)
Cyclone V,only black packaged fpga with 1.1 volt core voltage :)
16:49 the new siglent "oscilloscope" hehehhe
Maybe the MicroSD slot is for extra storage?
Look at the solder work on that relay @ 13:29
+T Komoski not too great but might do the trick.
+Mila Miglia Would you accept that as an Instrument for testing ?
+T Komoski I don't necessarily have the expertise to say if that's kosher at 1.2GS/s but if there is half decent connection and mechanical hold, I don't think that's a signal critical issue. It's a very open non RF design so I'm guessing it's not an issue. Some local examination could be interesting. Maybe ultrasound agitation. Not sure what would be a disciplined test. Xray maybe. Have Mike take a gander :)
Let's see how the solder work is done on this one ...
Did I see a warranty seal? I didn't see a warranty seal did I? Where is the warranty seal? How the frik can they put something on the market without an warranty seal?
This is not how the world functions. I'm very disturbed by the lack of warranty seal.
+DeRaafMedia Dave took it safely off in a previous video.
@ 3:01 ✌
3:01 you can see the warranty/tamper seal.
+BigBing1987 looks like he got the knife out on it?
Damnit. I have a 4K screen but the internet is not fast enough to keep up right now! Is this going to be a normal thing from now on?
+Mark Henderson I'm surprised he's rendering these in 4K due to the processing and uploading time.
Interesting. I use two 720p VGA monitors but I get 600Mb/s up and 500Mb/s down.
EDIT: sorry double comment.
At least he has 20Mbps upload from his office, so the upload should be reasonably fast (well, about as fast as uploads get in AU).
+Mark Henderson You don't have to view in 4K. In fact it's not real 4K, it upscaled 1080p. It's a test to see if UA-cam produces better quality 1080p footage from a 4K upscaled image (it is rumoured to)
+Mat Mabee I used to work in the same building as Dave and I can tell you there is zero chance of getting more than about 1/10th of that in that building. Lucky you :)
"I hope I don't break it!" - you jinxed it! :P
no care to the warrenty sticker? I thought you were going to pull another dave on this one
Sorry for the lack of paragraph breaks and the abscence of spaces between sentences. It's how my browser interacts with UA-cam.
The solder joints look so shiny, I'm wondering if this unit is lead free or not?
At 10:13 - the 10Mhz crystal - why is there so much space around the part? Does that help the stability? Also, there are four large holes around the part. Might that be for a temperature stabilizing can?
+cemx86 The extra space and holes allow for mounting an oscillator in and alternative package. The 014 package in this picture en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Crystal_Packages.jpg
They used a beaglebone black to develop this 😁
Is it possible to upgrade those Siglent's puppies with more accurate timebase?
Just noticed this video is in 4k, when did you start doing that?
16:45 he says Sigilent SDS2000X series oscilloscope
Cool
You can use it in a plane 100-240 Volt 50/60 HZ or 100/120 Volt 400Hz
That is a universal power supply
Nice
at 10:05 , is that a good practice for QFN ground pads? the way they put the vias in there with the soldermask on top for U66 and U8
I whish you were one of my neighbours! cheers.
Cooling flow through the middle "fence" between the CPU and power supply boards has lots of holes. Then most of the holes are blocked by a ribbon cable. I don't get that.
The ribbon forces air over the PCB, very clever design.
is there a point to putting all that glue on the capacitors like that ? does it actually make any difference to the machines performance/longevity ?
+martin “Mooseteets” ives For environmental compliance (shock, drop test). It keeps the caps from moving and breaking their solder joints.
0.5mm pitch isn't too bad if you're using stencils and a hot air station. Many of the smaller switching regs from TI and LT are the same pitch. Not trivial, but still doable for us DIY guys.
But... those ridiculous angled power pads are uncalled for. C'mon... what's the sense in that?
Sitara is an musical instrument from Asia
My internet connection will barely stream 1080 so I'm out of this one on resolution. I have noticed that footage uploaded in 4K seems to be more glitchy when watched at 720. Anybody else experience this?
EN2342QI is quite silly in it's design, they could just use 18-20 0,5mm pins with 1,27mm pitch around that chip and get away much more "designer friendly" package instead of this.
Are they attempting to lower the inductance? Paralleling the pins will reduce it.
At 16:50 you said "Siglent SDG2000X seriesoscilloscope" ;) Kinda frightening how well these units are made for that price. If Siglent would use better green LEDs for the front panels there would be nothing to moan about.
Dave i love all your teardown videos with your excellent analysis, displaying the datasheets, zooming in on components, and explaining every little chip inside these things and the quality of the construction and design. I can't get enough! Everyone help support Dave on Patreon: www.patreon.com/eevblog?ty=h
Hey man! Is it true that all trigger outputs must send a pulse at the startpoint of a sweep? Cause I cannot get it to work on my SDG810, and I am not getting working response from the factory unfortunally.
I want to see you rip of that screen protection!!! Just pull the red tab, you know you want to!
Little mistake on 16:49 "oscilloscope". :)
So if this processor on this generator can support Android and Linux, then what OS does it have on it to begin with, and how and why would you change the OS anyway? It's proprietary, right? So what would you do with other OSes replacing that?
Or does it support those OSes just because it's a somewhat common processor like the Motorola 68K series and the Intel series and compatibles (and even the MOS 65xx/85xx series), and we might see one in many tablets and phones? But even if that's the case, then still, what OS does this run on?
Constantly buffering and impossible to watch. Trying to figure out how to force UA-cam NOT to use the highest resolution....
Oh, they used Rubycon caps ... only to ruin the whole thing with a Lelon! Yuck!
what? this was 500AUD ? it is more than double now!
I once busted a knob. Took a whole damn week to heal.
Lordy, how big was the video file? :P
4K option for all the non-Australian viewers to enjoy on their high speed internet
you just cut warranty stinker?
Can I use it as an audio dac? xD
Dave, you sound different in this one. Have anything to drink at all? :>
Sitara in Hindi or Urdu means "Star"
You're quite the 'schmicky' explainer!
Propably the apple imac 5k owners begin to start complaining about the low resolution soon :D
The lead-free solder looks terrible.
Someone make a circuit that can calculate the speed of a bicycle. What I have in mind is a magnet on the bike's wheel that will pass a coil and create a pulse of electric current. Then have a circuit count the time frame in between the pulses then do calculations based on the wheels circumference to find out the bikes speed. This will be displayed on a 2 digit 7-seg display. Too bad I don't understand electronics enough to create these kind of complicated circuits. Maybe someone out there can apply my idea. Or maybe it has already been done. Thank you.
+Joshua Rando definitely works, that's exactly the setup bicycle speedometers you'd buy from a bike store do use, its a nice little project, just need a microcontroller, inductive sensor with the same voltage requirement as your microcontroller, a 7 seg and probably less than 100 lines of code in total :) (i've done it myself except in my case i was measuring the engine RPM and wheel speed of a car for my universitys formula student team ^^)
Thats awesome! Once I watch so more videos about microcontrollers I should build something like this :D\
With a permanent magnet on the wheel and a Reed contact on the frame, it's easier to do, you just need a frequency meter-like circuit, which can be analog or digital.
Warranty Void sticker - you ruined it ahhhh!!!!
IMUOP Incredibly Messed-Up Outline Package
4K resolution ???? Are you kidding me ?
Come on. Let's get serious.
Next time, why not make it in 3D ?
Doh!
the construction is not very good, night and day compared to Keysight or Keithley
The solder quality is terrible.
Yeah, nothing worse than busting your "knob."
7:17 wank word,,, mwahha. yeah they really could have used a better name, other than that, its a beast, and really cost effective! $20 for A8 Soc processor... , really good price point. its not bad.
Stupd