buffered makes it spit. i broke the rules and put a nasty chorus on an MS70-CDR AFTER the grand canyon delay. it sounded like some insane shimmer (both pedals from sweetwater of course)
It should be noted that not all buffers are created equal. I like running a wah wah first and then a fuzz face. The Exotic Wah and the Fulltone Wah have a fantastic buffer that is fuzz face friendly.
A buffer before a fuzz shoves a Ge fuzz too far, but can be mitigated by rolling the guitar volume off to the same input level as before the buffer. Pain but works.
great video, thanks mitch, a query, this rule also applies for other types of pedals, for example classic wah, it is better that they are after the buffer or not , thank you very much.
Thanks for watching! Some wahs may also work better first in the chain. I’d suggest trying it both ways. If it sounds better first, great, otherwise after the buffer is good. You won’t hurt anything changing the routing around to try different pedal orders. Go with what works for you! Mitch
Looking through a lot of videos about the impedance issue, but I can’t anything explaining just what “loading” the pickups means. Does it mean that the voltage flow coming from the pickups is stifled and so it’s like there is a “pressure” build up between the pedal and the pickup? Like if the pickup was a water pump, and it’s trying to push more water than a narrow (high impedance) pipe will allow?
The Spaceman Gemini IV has a 1 MegOhm input impedance - would that be considered high? And if I understand correctly, that would mean that a buffer with 100 Ohm output before the Gemini wouldn't do as much harm as it does to the Smiley in this video?
Hello. A 1MegOhm input would be very standard for something like a guitar amp. Some pedals will use this input as well so that you get more of the "guitar straight into amp" response. Seems like the Spaceman is designed with an input impedance similar to that, likely so that it can run anywhere in the signal chain without issues. Something like the Smiley, which is meant to be a very accurate recreation of the original pedal, is going to have a lower input impedance and will not do as well after buffered signals. Thanks for your interest! Charlie Davis, Sweetwater Sales Engineer, (800) 222-4700 ext. 1320, charlie_davis@sweetwater.com
yo i think it sounds better the "wrong" way, the notes are unstable and sounds like it'll fall apart any moment. bet that with a phaser and drive at the end it'd buff up a plastic-ish sound
Is there a way to buffer something but still have the fuzz be okay with it? Didn’t Boss do that with the TB1 Tonebender clone they made? How would one go about doing that?
Hi, Zachary. Any fuzz that has its own buffer shouldn’t have an issue with being placed after a separate buffer. If you’re dealing with a traditional fuzz pedal, the simplest option is to place it first in your chain so that it is before any buffered effects. If you have something like the MXR Classic 108 or the Analog Alien Alien Twister, those each have switchable buffers so you can have the fuzz with or without a buffer. Thanks for your interest! Charlie Davis, Sweetwater Sales Engineer, (800) 222-4700 ext. 1320, charlie_davis@sweetwater.com
Well you got Octave pedals with mostly buffers that want a clean signal. So then what? It sounds better having say an OC3 to OC5 in front of a fuzz. After it will track really weird.
Yes, correct. A buffer before the fuzz is the issue, with true bypass there is no buffer. Where possible I’d still get the guitar as directly into the fuzz as possible to maximize pickup loading. Hope this helps. Mitch
@@arnolddealiii4259 Well, except for when you turn the true bypass style effect on - in which case, it is not bypassed, and breaks the fuzz' loading of the guitar pickups.
@@sweetwater thanks to everyone who responded, after watching this video I re-arrange a few of my cheap muff clone pedals, and wow they sound like they actually should, God do I feel like an idiot, thanks though for this video! Off to try and make my whole board true bypass.
I like the sputtered sound of buffer before fuzz. It’s just another fuzz option.
I think all guitars should have fuzz face circuits built in to them, so there's no chance of pre-input buffers, but that's just me. 😉 😂
I read that Duane Allman(in his pre Allman Brothers Band days) had a tele with a fuzz built into it..
I agree with you about not putting the buffer first but with the buffer first it kind of sounded like Jack White's whacky gated,spitty fuzz..😁
Mitch is a class act. Video is very informative and straight to the point, with audio examples... perfect!
Thanks, Mitch. Great explanation. Helped me to understand the why.
This is where the Boss FV5 questions it's existence
ha !
That's a lot of really good information. Great video, thanks for sharing! 🤘
Anyone waiting for him to activate the Metal Zone going into the Smiley? Just me? ok
Great explanation, & video tutorial, thAnks Mitch🤘🤘
Eric johnson runs a buffered tube screamer before his fuzz faces, that's how he gets that searing "desert rose" solo fuzz tone.
Thank you, this explains my past experiences. Very useful!
This was exactly what I was looking for to address a problem I was having. Thanks.
This example of a buffered fuzz made it sound like an octave fuzz to me......at least over my fone speaker.
A Fuzz and “ Breaking The rules”?. Reminds me Peter Frampton!😃
buffered makes it spit.
i broke the rules and put a nasty chorus on an MS70-CDR AFTER the grand canyon delay. it sounded like some insane shimmer (both pedals from sweetwater of course)
It should be noted that not all buffers are created equal. I like running a wah wah first and then a fuzz face. The Exotic Wah and the Fulltone Wah have a fantastic buffer that is fuzz face friendly.
Choked sputtering spitting fuzz sounds good to me. Maybe that’s why I dig Death By Audio pedals.
I think Mason just had an anuerisn. Great video, Mitch!
A buffer before a fuzz shoves a Ge fuzz too far, but can be mitigated by rolling the guitar volume off to the same input level as before the buffer. Pain but works.
great video, thanks mitch, a query, this rule also applies for other types of pedals, for example classic wah, it is better that they are after the buffer or not , thank you very much.
Thanks for watching! Some wahs may also work better first in the chain. I’d suggest trying it both ways. If it sounds better first, great, otherwise after the buffer is good. You won’t hurt anything changing the routing around to try different pedal orders. Go with what works for you!
Mitch
that les paul! damn!!!
Sometimes for the best results, you do need to follow the rules 🎶 What “rule” should we test next in this series?
Could test whether you should always put mod/ delay/ reverb pedals after your drive pedals
Explore placing a wah pedal pre or post drive pedals.
Looking through a lot of videos about the impedance issue, but I can’t anything explaining just what “loading” the pickups means. Does it mean that the voltage flow coming from the pickups is stifled and so it’s like there is a “pressure” build up between the pedal and the pickup? Like if the pickup was a water pump, and it’s trying to push more water than a narrow (high impedance) pipe will allow?
The Spaceman Gemini IV has a 1 MegOhm input impedance - would that be considered high? And if I understand correctly, that would mean that a buffer with 100 Ohm output before the Gemini wouldn't do as much harm as it does to the Smiley in this video?
Hello. A 1MegOhm input would be very standard for something like a guitar amp. Some pedals will use this input as well so that you get more of the "guitar straight into amp" response. Seems like the Spaceman is designed with an input impedance similar to that, likely so that it can run anywhere in the signal chain without issues. Something like the Smiley, which is meant to be a very accurate recreation of the original pedal, is going to have a lower input impedance and will not do as well after buffered signals.
Thanks for your interest!
Charlie Davis, Sweetwater Sales Engineer, (800) 222-4700 ext. 1320, charlie_davis@sweetwater.com
yo i think it sounds better the "wrong" way, the notes are unstable and sounds like it'll fall apart any moment. bet that with a phaser and drive at the end it'd buff up a plastic-ish sound
So what constitutes a "modern" fuzz. Switching to wireless soon and need a solution.
Is there a way to buffer something but still have the fuzz be okay with it? Didn’t Boss do that with the TB1 Tonebender clone they made? How would one go about doing that?
Hi, Zachary. Any fuzz that has its own buffer shouldn’t have an issue with being placed after a separate buffer. If you’re dealing with a traditional fuzz pedal, the simplest option is to place it first in your chain so that it is before any buffered effects. If you have something like the MXR Classic 108 or the Analog Alien Alien Twister, those each have switchable buffers so you can have the fuzz with or without a buffer.
Thanks for your interest!
Charlie Davis, Sweetwater Sales Engineer, (800) 222-4700 ext. 1320, charlie_davis@sweetwater.com
Eric johnson ran a tubescreamer before his fuzz 👍
Well you got Octave pedals with mostly buffers that want a clean signal. So then what? It sounds better having say an OC3 to OC5 in front of a fuzz. After it will track really weird.
With the buffer, it kinda sounds like it was biased weird.
I'm assuming this doesn't happen with true bypass?
Correct. It’s not a buffer so the pedal is completely bypassed with no coloration from the circuit.
Yes, correct. A buffer before the fuzz is the issue, with true bypass there is no buffer. Where possible I’d still get the guitar as directly into the fuzz as possible to maximize pickup loading.
Hope this helps.
Mitch
@@arnolddealiii4259 Well, except for when you turn the true bypass style effect on - in which case, it is not bypassed, and breaks the fuzz' loading of the guitar pickups.
@@JoeBearDotCom agreed
@@sweetwater thanks to everyone who responded, after watching this video I re-arrange a few of my cheap muff clone pedals, and wow they sound like they actually should, God do I feel like an idiot, thanks though for this video! Off to try and make my whole board true bypass.
Jake e Lee would love this
Spitting in public...bad form...but okay for rock n roll lol.
All this worrying.