My journey so far has taken me nearly 3 years, mostly self-taught with some fantastic experienced tutors helping me on the way. I have completed the theory and all the practical assignments for my level 2 and 3 City and Guilds qualifications. Now just moving on to my NVQ 2357, fully funded by myself of course. I am under no illusions that I am an experienced electrician, however, I have truly put my heart and soul into this training, and for someone like this to say I am no good is pretty hard to hear. Apprenticeships are few and far between in my experience, but I do understand the heavy burden they will have on what is an industry made up of small businesses. I wasn't lucky enough to find an apprenticeship when I was 16 and now at 34 I still couldn't find one, this was and is still the only route for someone like myself to enter this industry. I would much prefer to hear solutions from industry leaders on this type of issue, rather than him pointing his finger in my face and telling me unless I do an apprenticeship I am no good.
Same, I don't understand this 6 week thing, I've not heard of it, it's taking me years. The experience is worth everything granted, but shouldn't we all be allowed to try and better ourselves and our lives without judgment? I too understand I have many more years to go until I can say I am an experienced electrician, but I work hard, learn fast and have good people around me to drive me forwards.
Same boat mate. I’ve worked domestic commercial & industrial, I’ll be taking my AM2 fairly soon but have refused to take it twice as I wanted more experience in various areas. I’ve met “time served” electricians who have been a complete liability. It really depends who your employer is. The couple of apprentices I’ve met recently have only been pat testing & will be fully qualified next year. They didn’t know how to wire a 2 way. They get helped through all their exams & will be helped through their AM2 next year because their course provider needs the pass rate. I’ve been working with a tester recently completing EICR’s on commercial sites, the certs from previous gold card electricians are a complete joke. Old & pissed off with life Jurassic sparks. Yh anybody doing a 6 week course is dangerous but anybody with no experience & 6 weeks of college will be found out within a couple of hours of been on site. I can’t see how they couldn’.
@Matt H Try and get in contact with Mark Alison at Apprentice 1 2 1. He is a nice guy and may be able to help. He also runs a Sparky firm called PowerSonic.
@@sergiofernandez3725 cheers, yeah being following Mark here on UA-cam for a number of years. Iv an electrical firm who's agreed to help me through my NVQ, fingers crossed it works out.
After 41 years of practice, 5 year apprenticeship, now told that the qualifications of onc and hnc in electrical engineering are no longer acceptable and calling oneself an electrician may be illegal. Government pushing out the most experienced as they did when part p was introduced and there was a massive exodus of experience.
Afraid it’s the same in most industries/professions - a piece of paper counts for more than skill, experience and a proper apprenticeship. I’m at an age I don’t have to worry about it.
Started work at 15 done a 5 year apprenticeship, wealth of experience with commercial, large commercial residential some industrial. Part P was the biggest load of codswallop to be introduced. I bumped into a Plumber when it came out he thought he was more qualified than me. The regs now seem to change weekly, so glad I am retired now.
I've done a Trade Skills 4U course to become a domestic installer. Passed thr 18th edition exam, passed the Part P exam, BUT in no way would I consider myself an electrician, I did it for me to get a better understanding, but you need to work with someone experienced if you want to take it up as a career.
What's a 'Part P' exam, never heard of it? Not long ago, it was having the 2391 that sorted the men from the boys but I think it's been watered down now because it was too hard.
@Semper Idem Part P is the building regs exam. Can't see the other comment, regarding qualifications, but regarding that, you do come away with a testing and inspection cert Level 2, BUT they make out you can now carry out domestic installs, not a good idea in my opinion.
Whilst having a coffee in a local cafe in my home town of Weymouth I started chatting to a couple of young sparks working on a premier Inn referb and to my surprise they offered me a job, at the age of 72 and trying to do my best to retire when I keep getting dragged back in it is obvious there must be a shortage of trained sparks
Oh nice, I love Weymouth, we often holiday in Swanage and along that bit of the coast. I would imagine they'd really appreciate your knowledge and experience matey. 👍
Done my bit started work as a pre apprentice learner on £4 4shillings and 6 pence for a 45 hour week in April 1966 hung up my tools about 6 months ago the trade has changed beyond most recognitions we didn't have battery drills etc only 1 vibro drill 240 volt for 12 blokes to fight over lump hammer and rawlplug tool fiber rawlplugs I could go on and I will all chasing with lump hammer and bolster all holes in joists brace and auger bit lads and lasses you have never had it so good and long may it last
Sure is a big skills gap 👍🏿👍🏿 gov. Uk not investing in funding. Adult apprenticeship not worth a 💩 minimum wage for the 1st year and not much more after the first year
Absolutely agree, but the problem is a shortage of properly trained sparks and the one that actually wanted to learn and enjoy the trade. I do talk from experience as my fairly young business went through few so called electrical apprentices and wanted to be electricians. Unfortunately each one of them failed to impress, because of their approach and attitude. I take pride of what we do as business, so everyone needs to follow this steps as this goes a long way to my current and potential clients. Anyways, I am sure there is small number of young people that actually want to the job, but they are very hard to come by. It's definitely not all negative.
As a general maintenance engineer I sat and passed the 17th & 18th edition regulations. As soon as I added it to my CV I was offered electrical biased maintenance jobs. When I explained it to recruiters they said it doesn’t matter employers are screaming out for Sparky’s. I am not a sparky, I just know how to find the regs in a book ! Doesn’t mean I can put it into practice. There should be more guidance and control for people who get the 18th and ongoing certificates who are not qualified Sparky’s.
I was always on the phone to a spark with level 2 when I only had level 1. He wired a mirror with a light. Did not know we're to wire from the light. Also he wired a fan in the bath room asked me why it was not working. I tell him it needs a permanent live as well as a switched live. What did he do he took a link from the light on the bulb side. And wired to a switch. The to the fan.
Not sure I agree about the short courses, I did a full apprenticeship but the chap I'm training at the moment did all his tech cert 1 & 2 off his own back in six weeks because day release in older life to retrain is not practical. In the time since he's gained enough knowledge to be on par with a 3rd year apprentice and be left to do a consumer unit on his own. However he did look and ask for help before taking on the short course and the issue is many don't try to get a ride along on evenings or weekends to help expand knowledge beyond the course as the course alone isn't enough.
If you have taken the long route or short route in training may well make you think that the long term is the outright winner every time......I would say being unbiased either way that you cannot TEACH common sense and good judgement in the REAL world....the scenarios you are subjected to in the training room will never be what you see on the tools etc....but and understanding of the regs (read them regularly like a good novel) and thinking safety 100% of the time...and not thinking what will get you by lol....... surely is a competent person...great news as always Joe....keep it coming
Six weeks! I did a 5 year apprenticeship, taught by some of gods finest electricians and have been in the trade 40+ years. I'm still learning my trade. No wonder there are so many fires.
Agreed, I did 4 years at college straight into a full time job worked for two and half years then moved into another job with a different company for another five years . Been an electrician thirty years or so, and yes I am still learning.
Same here. I'm now a forensic engineer investigating electrical failures including many fires. This six-week electrician program should keep me busy into my retirement (and I don't blame those in the program, just the idiots that came up with it).
So someone finally agreed what us sparks have been saying about these 6 week wonders, if only they were a danger to themselves and not everyone around them. Beyond useless
Are they dangerous though? They may be bloody slow and ask stupid questions about how to do simple things, and take ages to clip straight runs of cable, but "dangerous"? Not IMHO. They are irritating, slooooow, and you can't give them stupid irrelevant tasks to do (like when us old farts were new), but not many are dangerous. Most know their limitations, especially the older ones who have decided to retrain after years in other careers. They don't tend to go into this trade just for a hoot, or because they think it's a piss-easy road to riches, or because someone tells them they should do it (like more than one sparky I know, told they'd be great, because their dad/uncle/sister's boyfriend was an electrician too, and then ended up on the tools and on day release to college as soon as they left school by default, not really choosing it as a vocation!) The ones who do 6 weeks and think they know everything, and take on things out of their league are another story!
Haha, I’m literally on one of these courses right now in Scotland, that being said, I’m an experienced manufacturing facilities engineer with a mechanical background, transitioning into building controls fit outs. To me this is the target market for these courses, to build upon existing engineering knowledge with electrical safety, rather than taking someone straight off the street & making them a spark. I’m on a 2.5 week course, a week of electrical safety, a week of board familiarisation & 2 days of automated switches/relays. Then 3 months shadowing before I’m let loose on site on my lonesome
I've worked with some lads that have done apprenticeship and fast track and the worrying thing was the shoddy workmanship and lack of knowledge from the apprentice trained guys. The 6 week wonder was far more competent and turned out a better quality of work 👌🏼
I’ve experienced the same. Some of the “6 week wonders” are aware that their training isn’t what it should be, so take extra care and do extra research. Whilst complacency can creep in with the apprenticeship lads. Also if they had a crap mentor on their apprenticeship, why should we assume they’re going to be good sparks.
Of course, they'll be slower too, but so long as they aren't 17, should have the brains to put in the extra care needed. I've no doubt that 6 weeks is enough to get most, if not all of the theory down, it's the hands-on practical stuff which takes years to perfect. If you don't join an electrical firm who are breathing down your neck to get small jobs done chop-chop, you can take that time and make sure the job is every bit as good as the time-served boys churn out.
"1.2 GW: that's enough to power 600 electric cars for a year" I cringe when the media make that mistake, but I know you guys know what you're talking about!
Many years ago a course was introduced for building control that allowed them the authority to test, and to certify domestic installations after only a few weeks, the inspectors were quick to tout their new found certificates, ignoring the fact that decades of experience was far more valuable. It has always struck me as odd that 'courses' are collected by officials, as if they were the real deal. When I served my time, they assured me that that was the beginning of my learning, and the end would stop only when I was dead.
How much skill is there in using an ohm meter to make resistance measurements of cables and compare them to a table to ensure they are low enough? 1 day, a week, 1 year, 10 years?
I think the industry needs, more input from the governing bodies on actual day to days and see competencies there. Whether you take a short course or an apprenticeship to doesn’t make you any better or worse in my opinion, you could be in the industry many years but don’t have the qualifications and want to obtain them but can’t afford an apprenticeship wage who are far more knowledgeable and understanding then the 20 year old new qualified apprentice
I've had my electric smart meter replaced twice in 2 years. The first was an army cook 8 weeks prior to my job and the second a bank clerk. Both said they are taught parrot fashion for 8 weeks and would not know how to diagnose a lighting cct to save their life nor any idea about ohms law. They are "Certified Cut out Pullers and Meter Changers".
But that's all they do, pull the fuse and change the meter, I'm sure they were adequately qualified for the job. They don't give a toss about anything else, all they have to do is change the meter, not diagnose anything. The installation on the customer's side of the meter is not their problem. I want to know why it takes 8 weeks to learn about safe isolation, then replacing a meter and some tails?
My partner gets shocks from B and M trolleys. I said to her occasionally touch the trolley with a key . That way you don’t feel the shock as you have a larger skin surface taking the shock . She sometimes forgets though.
In my experience, doing an apprenticeship does not automatically guarantee some one is going to be a quality spark. There’s plenty of “property qualified” sparks out there doing work that’s RAF.
600 cars "for a year" .. You lost me now, they were not talking about Watt Hours, they were talking about Watts, so I don't understand the reference for adding a time to the conversation.
The trouble is, the number of (fully competent, I won't use the phrase qualified, as I think that phrase is part of the problem) electricians needed is rising, the amount the consumer is willing to pay is falling, the numbers retiring or leaving (as I have done) and the paucity of those completing apprenticeships simply doesn't add up. By a very long way. Not a problem limited to electrical work. Doctors, nurses, STEM teachers, engineers. You name it, the list is long. A vibrant economy needs so many skills, and the UK sadly lacks them in vast numbers. Adding more tests and more qualifications will not resolve it. Always, the mantra goes, more training, longer training. When what we need is competency, which I do not feel the heavily bureaucratic system we now have remotely delivers. I have seen work done by some 6 week wonders. Some bad, some good, some great, some very bad (only one person that I am aware of locally). To paint them all as 'bad' is disingenuous at best. I have see work done by fully apprenticed, qualified, registered and certified electricians. A lot, as you would hope, very good. Some of it poor, some atrocious. The key word, and used in actual legislation as I call, is competence. Not something you can measure with a tick list.
I did a 6 week course with Trade Skills 4 U. It was awful. I passed fine but the fact they lead you to believe you're allowed to go out there on your own and start up your own business is crazy. It's just a money making exercise for them, no help after and don't like feedback either. Stay clear of the 6 week courses!
Trade skills 4U hire conference rooms In premier in at Heathrow and a hotel in central London , they sometimes hire the work shops At Uxbridge college usually At weekends or during term holidays. The don’t even have the common Curtesy the answer peoples questions on there you tube videos.
Adult apprenticeships are a nice idea but not realistic. You cannot expect a 35 year old with a mortgage to work for apprenticeship wages and wait 5 years to earn proper money. And if someone is only interested in domestic work then why should they spend years learning how to install industrial containment? It's also quite odd that Scotland has higher standard for electricians and yet I spent some time up there and found the general standard of work I found to be quite poor in the domestic sector.
I trained with access training every Saturday and Sunday for a year. It was a lot to take in at first. their model is you learn the theory first and then move to the practical. I was originally thinking that I'd finish the course and rewire my house... which I did. full rewire on a 4 bed semi with garage supply and relocation of the meter cupboard. a great learning curve. that was back in 2019 and have been working on my own since 2020. Joined the NICEIC and haven't really looked back. The problem is the lack of focus on any real-life problems/installations. the classroom can't show you that. and there's no way I'd be able to survive off apprentice wages. so if the industry needs electricians then there needs to be some kind of balance struck.
I worked as a construction project manager for a well known supermarket chain, after a refit of a store static shocks started being an issue. It transpired it was the cleaning material being used on the floor, once this was changed the problem went away. Sadly I cannot recall the materials used as this was some 30 years ago.
A lot of electrians who did apprenticeships don't seem to understand 95% of an apprenticeship is doing non-electrical work such as drilling holes, cleaning up, planning routes etc. If you already 10 years of experience doing those sort of non electrical jobs then you spend 6 weeks solid learning about electrical theory and regulations you're not going to be too far off the apprentice who's just finished 4 years and is possibly 10 or more years younger!
I avoid shocks from trolleys by always keeping my finger on the metal part when pushing it around, as you say keeping it continually grounded will keep it from building up a charge. This isn't hard to do; reaching the metal frame with your middle finger from the handle is easy.
I went to college with someone and bumped into him at TLC, around 6ish months after we finish college. He told me that he's a fully qualified electrician n he's doing some domestic bits (hence TLC) with a family member who's actually a REALLY sparky. I didn't want to tell him that he's NOT a really sparky like a am. The government needs to STOP all these instant "electrician's". As all their doing is fucking shit up and causing fires. But I'm guessing that's NEVER going to happen, due to them loving money so much. 🤬
causing fires'? Even some 'qualified electrician' work I've seen is s hi te. "I've been doing this for 30 years.." they say. You get qualified drivers that are awful similar to some qualified electricians that are worse so we have a dilemma here.
Used to operate a scissor lift in one of the McArthur glen shopping centres that used to build up a right charge, so when you lent out to get the light fittings you got a massive belt. So we stripped some earth wire to the frame and when we got to our destination touched the other end to something metal and got a big satisfactory blue flash of light.
Short courses have their place. I would opt to undertake one if I was looking to move into working on the tools. Right now I could register for part P. I hold certification in the regulations, a degree in electronic & electrical engineering as well as post graduate courses, as someone who has designed components used by electricians the theory isn't the issue. I would want to be able to show that I am able to undertake practical work as well as learning some tips. In order to pay for my degree, whilst unemployed, I took a "two" year full time City and Guild's course in plumbing as well as getting practical experience. Apart from the practical classes, the theory could have been covered in a couple of weeks. I enjoyed the lead working unit. Though I can make boxes and scupper liners from a sheet of lead without cutting and welding, I don't know of any modern plumbers who use those skills. I wasn't allowed to keep the box! I ended up working for a guy who was, plumbing's version of a six week wonder.
I got out of electrical game 24 years ago and have no intention of going back. unfortunately I'm still working on constriction site's. Didn't manage to get out of that one.
I’m just coming to the end of my Level 3 testing and inspecting course. So been about 12weeks training when including the dei, 18th edition etc before hand. Reading that these kind of courses arent particularly liked by ‘electricians’ is alittle worrying. I, in no way, consider myself an electrician but at 38 yo hope somebody see’s a potential and a desire to help me start on the learning journey to being one
Good luck Ed. I retired at 58 after 30 years in aerospace engineering and did a four week wonder course with EC4U in Sussex. At no stage did this organisation suggest you’d be as ready as a time served apprentice even for domestic work. I shadowed an experienced electrician for two years and did my own minor works, there was and continues to be shedloads of learning on the tools. I think the key issue is to know your limits and have the same high integrity approach that aerospace instilled in me. I was about to join NAPIT but the entry requirements changed, requiring Level 3 test & inspection which I couldn’t justify. I’ve got more non-notifiable work than you can shake a stick at, as the big boys don’t want the little jobs.
The issue with training for adults is twofold. First, there aren't enough apprenticeships and second the wage won't pay the rent for those who don't have a sugar daddy or savings.
What about those who have worked within the industry for years but have decided that this is the path they wish to follow. They have the knowledge why not fast track them?
Tescos had that static issue on their clothing section, due to the type of flooring in that area and the trolley wheel material, I hated getting dragged down them isles by the missus, always got zapped when I cane out.
I personally went on a fast course however it still took me over a year to complete level 2 and 3 and now another year still doing my nvq it’s down to the individual learner i don’t personally understand how anyone can think they are qualified after 6 weeks 😂
Static shocks off supermarket trollies isn't new. I've had loads in my time. Also, I had a part time job in a large Woolco back in the 70's. One day I was asked to help out in the carpet dept. Using a pump-up truck designed to lift carpets, there was one almighty 'crack' and a big bright spark ⚡ jumped from the trolley to the metal racking. So glad it wasn't me that touched the metal racking first ⚰ r.i.p.
Brizole is a good place to work.. done quite a few big jobs down there, I dribbled when i saw the megger x1 footage on there UA-cam channel.. was toying with metrel.. but have always had a megger... well done as always Joe
I am currently on my level 3 at trade skills 4 u, I am under no illusions I'll become an electrician at the end. In Fact you are made to sign to say you won't be, but it will give me valuable knowledge and qualifications to keep learning and work towards my nvq. All in all it will take me a minimum of 2 years if not more. Sadly there are not many options as an adult to train.
I'm not a fan of static shocks. So i would tap the shelf with my foot (shoe) first before touching the shelf/produce. Maybe they can have one of them anti-static strips dragging on the floor on the trolley, bit like you saw on cars many years ago.
Whipper-snapper and direct-indirect are my choice for this weeks words. Do they count as 2 words or are they 4? I like the French idea of making car parks have Solar PV. The UK goverment needs to do something similar. Like Solar PV or wind turbine on all government buildings. Abviously they will also need to install battery storage for the best use of that renewable energy.
My question is how many deaths/injuries from electrical faults have been attributable to an electrician that did a six week course? Is there a stack of evidence to suggest six week course attendees frequently fail to complete work to BS7671? Do they fail to keep up with CPD compared to long course counterparts? Do they intentionally complete shoddy sub standard work with the intention of putting someone’s life at risk? Even a DIYer with no course can do electrics and as long as it meets the requirements of BS7671 is there really a headache over it? When I next phone a taxi I’ll be sure to ask if they have been a taxi driver for at least 20 years so I’m safe in the comfort they are less likely to crash. Also let’s not let anyone drive on the road until they have had 5 years worth of lessons prior to a test. That should give them enough experience not to crash into another car or pedestrians and kill someone.
1:58 1.2 GW of energy production? Is that the Total specified output of the Array at peak performance. You know as well as me that maximum output is only available for1 month around the Summer Solstice. The rest of the output is on a Bell Curve, Through the day over the year! And we are talking the Metro Centre.
I have spoken to a person doing electrical work with not one qualification. And has not worked with a spark they say from speaking to a college they should just do level 3 and a 6 week course. There work is a big zero.
I agree with the 6 week wonders. I did a 2 weekend EAL II to keep building control off my back for DIY. While the testing element was useful it was idealised (no real world stuff like sensitive electronics hiding all over the circuit), on the install side it taught me nothing new. Worse: it taught nothing about the more esoteric residential stuff. No armoured, no generator supply stuff (eg multiple earthing), no when is TN-C-S ok to export and when do you need a local TT, nothing about hottubs. To be fair, I've already moaned that a fully qualified registered electrician left me with a dangerous generator inlet and seemed un confident on the earthing. So yeah. Short courses have a place, perhaps kitchen fitting where minor alterations need to be made. But if I wanted to do work for other people, I'd want to do an apprenticeship. Both domestic where you learn the tricks of getting around a building, under awkward floors etc. And also industrial where standards are high and work is neat. I've always been most inspired by datacentre cabling.
Oh! God kitchen fitters . How many have I spoke to them and they say loudly " I have a Part P" as if they are an expert and it substitutes an apprentice ship. And how many times have I done remedial work on a kitchen circuit.
You aren't the only ones. The IT industry has been inundated with 'exam cram' books for years. I have met many folks who claim to have all the latest IT qualifications and yet they seemed to know a lot less than me (and I didn't have any of those qualifications).
We use a similar system to those vario-plates for cable entry to clean rooms through the walk-on ceiling. Handy but one boring job when you have 100's of points
6 bloody weeks is a bit of stretch. Here in poland we do a an online course over the weekend . Entitling installation work upto 230v ,,, want to install solar panels as well ... that's an add on , another full day.... Seems uk is very closed shop
I Talking about 6 week courses I was on a job about a year ago . They had chucked the electrician off the job. They got him from check a trade . He was a ex school teacher been on a course for a few weeks. He had cut large holes all over the living rm ceiling as he didn’t know how to lift floor boards . He had spurred off a spur for extra sockets and wagos everywhere and not in a proper enclosure . Surface wiring on stud walls . In the kitchen he had led spot lights . Some were white and some warm white . I had to put it right as they said no point in getting him back. On top of that they had to get the ceiling in the living room re skimmed.
I've seen some s#@t left behind by respected and time served sparks, the builders and homeowners down know any different and the sparks get away with it.
I have seen some of these “I did 5 years City Guilds in my day” types! Some of them leave a holy mess, it amazes me how some are still alive. 99% are brilliant are there job and take pride in there work every day. But some are just a danger to themselves and others! 6 weeks is ridiculous! But I will say the new breed are a lot safer.
It's takes years to become a qualified tradesman (any trade) not 6 weeks. If someone tells you they can train you in that time then they are either lying or stupid. Is that really who you want to learn from?
1,2 giga watts, nearly enough for a delorean, I would say those short electrical courses should be applauded, they have managed to condense, what every bodger needs to know into a few weeks, this would usually take years, for the vast majority, bravo 😂😂
Completely agree, 6 week courses should be banned. Worked with an idiot years ago who came off of one of these courses, he was a farm worker a few months before, had virtually no tools, no experience, no clue and was on the same money as me (them days, about £7 an hour). He was f#ck1n useless.
I think that the six week wonder debate really does need to happen as I believe there is a place for the "Domestic electrician" . But what about three week wonders like me ? I am a carpenter and a Clerk of Works not an electrician but have done lots of kitchen fitting. Back in 2006 I did a one week 16th Edition Course ( before open book exams) , followed by a one week electrical installations course (domestic) , a 3 day part p course and a 2 day pat testing course all supported by city and guilds. . I have since done a 17th and 18th addition update courses . I did the courses because then as now its almost impossible to get a sparks to do the little jobs that need to be done now when fitting kitchens and the likes. Am I a liability ? I do not believe I am as I am neat , methodical , and understand what I am and am not allowed to do. What I have seen consistently is absolutely rubbish work carried out by "reputable and registered companies" The problem is not the standard of the training but the calibre of the individuals and the lack of supervision from companies. I have also found the "competent worker " scheme companies totally useless when you make a complaint. and as for local authority building control they are so understaffed and overworked they could not check anything and the unscrupulous companies know this .
I think there is a debate to be had. There is clearly an assumption - by the electricians on here that have gone down the route of lengthy apprenticeship - that 6 weeks isn't long enough. But apprenticeships are not full time study so of course they are going to be longer. And they cover a lot of content which isn't required for residential installations. Perhaps I should go look at the syllabus of this 6 week course and assess it.
As long as you stick to house bashing. I am fed up with the domestic spark who thinks they can do commercial and industrial work I see daily domestic sparkles slamming grey t&e in thinking its acceptable. I have a list as long as my arm of the domestic mindset in a commercial/industrial world and its dangerous.
Definitely agree with apprenticeships being the best way to become experienced and not just good at passing exams and labelling inexperienced people as qualified . Stonking whippersnapper???
Hi, much as I enjoy you informative features, you made a serious error of judgement featuring the image a young female, when criticising 6 week wonder courses indicating bias towards youth, and the gentler sex, shame misogyny alarms ringing
When you agree to a smart metre, the chap that comes round has only had 2 weeks worth of training. I asked him some questions and he did not have a clue. He was a plumber by trade....
They installed my neighbours smart meter while he was out. Last week it started smoking and crackling and he knocked my door asking what to do. I told him to call the DNO, they came and surprise surprise nothing was tight in the terminals in the cut out. Its the most basic of things sometimes.
Regarding the subject of "good old aprentiship way" or "6 week qualified"(wich I never heard of) I remeber havig the same line of debate a few weeks ago on same channel,that is here,and I do remember and keep my idea that "good old anything" is not up to date...why?just because I was led be an "good old style" gold card with only 16th edition that was on a refurbishment job and he was wiring a hotel every 2 rooms on the same feed,linking them,had no idea of doing containment as was not able to do set of trays ,45's on a tray and baskets,and he was testing and registering datas from readings with an old Megger with the calibration expired 6 months before the moment I been brought to know of.So please,spare me the " good old ways" as if even a young person(nice to say I seen more and more young ladies going for this trade) would find a apprentice role(wich is not ever possible as majority of employers ask for experience e qualifications),those people whom would find such would be payed neatly to nothing(exploiting them) and even not much to learn because majority of jobs would be chasing,clearing areas,labouting,etc wich would definitely NOT make you an electrician...By the way,the "good old school gold card" was from Birmingham's area....any coincidences?!?! P S.we either stay with the standards and improve in new ways or you want a Brexit(no political connection) on this trade as well and keep standards to " old school way"?
I've done a course with access training. I have my wiring regs, building regs, lvl 2 fundamental inspection and testing, lvl 3 initial verification, level 3 periodic inspection and testing, lvl 2 dei and lvl 3 installation and maintenance of electrotechnical systems. I didn't do an apprenticeship. Am I not to be considered competent now then?
What practical experience gave you gained? Do you meet the requirements of the experienced worker route 👉www.ecscard.org.uk/content/how-to-apply-Experienced-Worker-Assessment
@efixx spent a few years with my father when I was younger but not officially doing any sort of apprenticeship. Still doing lots of labour work, learning how to use power tools, learning the layout of houses etc. Also the practical element of the training offered by access training and the portfolio element of the lvl 3 installation and maintenance of electrotechnical systems.
I have seen dangerous installations carried out by electricians with 20 years of experience in the bag, NCEIC registered and with all the logos they can possibly fit on their vans. Individuals need, can and should have the opportunity to retrain, especially in uncertain times as nowadays. It's a case of taking pride and interest in what you do, and if you don't know what you're doing, then don't do it. Simple as that.
SELECT in Scotland are not particularly forward thinking in any great way. I would agree that 6 week courses are of no use, but doesnt mean to say the only way is a “traditional” apprenticeship. Other versions of adult apprenticeships / training are viable, not just the ones SELECT & SJIB choose to recognise, not that they have any vested interests in them 🤔 Perhaps if SELECT/SJIB did a bit more proactive work around modernising, rather than simply defending tradition, the industry would move forward! I expected more from The Head of SELECT as he has a communications background, but no all that is apparent is protectionism. PS been a “real” sparky a long time (14th edition), before anyone says must be a 6 week cowboy!😮
Hi, 50 years in the trade and you never stop learning ,every job is different , every few years they update the Regs and off we gone again ,from a plug top on a toaster to Nuclear Power station and lots in between . Under paid and over worked and loved it . Any one want some well experienced old tools ? that could tell some tails . A jack of all trades and tried to be a master of one . Best of luck lads .😃🤔 ,no 🤠on this site🤔. 🏴☠need not apply .
Why can’t the governing bodies access there customers throughly to assume compliance that way. A qualification doesn’t make you a good electrician, it’s not real world. If you have the desire and the will to do good jobs. No matter of a short course or an apprenticeship you will do that.
Wells is the worst place to be an electrician and Bristol the best, 10 miles apart, I work 16 miles from Bristol and there’s gazillions of electricians 😳💁
eFIXX Awards - Residential installer of the Year
👉 awards.efixx.co.uk/business
My journey so far has taken me nearly 3 years, mostly self-taught with some fantastic experienced tutors helping me on the way. I have completed the theory and all the practical assignments for my level 2 and 3 City and Guilds qualifications.
Now just moving on to my NVQ 2357, fully funded by myself of course. I am under no illusions that I am an experienced electrician, however, I have truly put my heart and soul into this training, and for someone like this to say I am no good is pretty hard to hear. Apprenticeships are few and far between in my experience, but I do understand the heavy burden they will have on what is an industry made up of small businesses.
I wasn't lucky enough to find an apprenticeship when I was 16 and now at 34 I still couldn't find one, this was and is still the only route for someone like myself to enter this industry. I would much prefer to hear solutions from industry leaders on this type of issue, rather than him pointing his finger in my face and telling me unless I do an apprenticeship I am no good.
Agreed
Same, I don't understand this 6 week thing, I've not heard of it, it's taking me years. The experience is worth everything granted, but shouldn't we all be allowed to try and better ourselves and our lives without judgment? I too understand I have many more years to go until I can say I am an experienced electrician, but I work hard, learn fast and have good people around me to drive me forwards.
Same boat mate. I’ve worked domestic commercial & industrial, I’ll be taking my AM2 fairly soon but have refused to take it twice as I wanted more experience in various areas. I’ve met “time served” electricians who have been a complete liability. It really depends who your employer is. The couple of apprentices I’ve met recently have only been pat testing & will be fully qualified next year. They didn’t know how to wire a 2 way. They get helped through all their exams & will be helped through their AM2 next year because their course provider needs the pass rate.
I’ve been working with a tester recently completing EICR’s on commercial sites, the certs from previous gold card electricians are a complete joke. Old & pissed off with life Jurassic sparks. Yh anybody doing a 6 week course is dangerous but anybody with no experience & 6 weeks of college will be found out within a couple of hours of been on site. I can’t see how they couldn’.
@Matt H Try and get in contact with Mark Alison at Apprentice 1 2 1. He is a nice guy and may be able to help. He also runs a Sparky firm called PowerSonic.
@@sergiofernandez3725 cheers, yeah being following Mark here on UA-cam for a number of years. Iv an electrical firm who's agreed to help me through my NVQ, fingers crossed it works out.
After 41 years of practice, 5 year apprenticeship, now told that the qualifications of onc and hnc in electrical engineering are no longer acceptable and calling oneself an electrician may be illegal. Government pushing out the most experienced as they did when part p was introduced and there was a massive exodus of experience.
Same here. 32 years marine engineering 15 of which as Controls Engineer but I can’t legally install a new socket.
@@paulbarnes1549 which country are you in?
Afraid it’s the same in most industries/professions - a piece of paper counts for more than skill, experience and a proper apprenticeship. I’m at an age I don’t have to worry about it.
Started work at 15 done a 5 year apprenticeship, wealth of experience with commercial, large commercial residential some industrial. Part P was the biggest load of codswallop to be introduced. I bumped into a Plumber when it came out he thought he was more qualified than me. The regs now seem to change weekly, so glad I am retired now.
I'll also add, its so expensive to be an electrician nowadays.
I've done a Trade Skills 4U course to become a domestic installer. Passed thr 18th edition exam, passed the Part P exam, BUT in no way would I consider myself an electrician, I did it for me to get a better understanding, but you need to work with someone experienced if you want to take it up as a career.
Brilliant comment, it's all about the individual and knowing your limits. Really hope you keep progressing and learning Matthew. 👍
We'll no because you don't have the qualifications
What's a 'Part P' exam, never heard of it? Not long ago, it was having the 2391 that sorted the men from the boys but I think it's been watered down now because it was too hard.
@Semper Idem Part P is the building regs exam.
Can't see the other comment, regarding qualifications, but regarding that, you do come away with a testing and inspection cert Level 2, BUT they make out you can now carry out domestic installs, not a good idea in my opinion.
@@semperidem2577 The 2391 practical hasn't changed at all. The difference now is it's an open book exam
Whilst having a coffee in a local cafe in my home town of Weymouth I started chatting to a couple of young sparks working on a premier Inn referb and to my surprise they offered me a job, at the age of 72 and trying to do my best to retire when I keep getting dragged back in it is obvious there must be a shortage of trained sparks
Oh nice, I love Weymouth, we often holiday in Swanage and along that bit of the coast. I would imagine they'd really appreciate your knowledge and experience matey. 👍
@@efixx Weymouth is a great place to go Scuba diving from. The marina is lovely
Done my bit started work as a pre apprentice learner on £4 4shillings and 6 pence for a 45 hour week in April 1966 hung up my tools about 6 months ago the trade has changed beyond most recognitions we didn't have battery drills etc only 1 vibro drill 240 volt for 12 blokes to fight over lump hammer and rawlplug tool fiber rawlplugs I could go on and I will all chasing with lump hammer and bolster all holes in joists brace and auger bit lads and lasses you have never had it so good and long may it last
Sure is a big skills gap 👍🏿👍🏿 gov. Uk not investing in funding. Adult apprenticeship not worth a 💩 minimum wage for the 1st year and not much more after the first year
Absolutely agree, but the problem is a shortage of properly trained sparks and the one that actually wanted to learn and enjoy the trade. I do talk from experience as my fairly young business went through few so called electrical apprentices and wanted to be electricians. Unfortunately each one of them failed to impress, because of their approach and attitude. I take pride of what we do as business, so everyone needs to follow this steps as this goes a long way to my current and potential clients.
Anyways, I am sure there is small number of young people that actually want to the job, but they are very hard to come by. It's definitely not all negative.
As a general maintenance engineer I sat and passed the 17th & 18th edition regulations. As soon as I added it to my CV I was offered electrical biased maintenance jobs. When I explained it to recruiters they said it doesn’t matter employers are screaming out for Sparky’s. I am not a sparky, I just know how to find the regs in a book ! Doesn’t mean I can put it into practice. There should be more guidance and control for people who get the 18th and ongoing certificates who are not qualified Sparky’s.
I was always on the phone to a spark with level 2 when I only had level 1. He wired a mirror with a light. Did not know we're to wire from the light. Also he wired a fan in the bath room asked me why it was not working. I tell him it needs a permanent live as well as a switched live. What did he do he took a link from the light on the bulb side. And wired to a switch. The to the fan.
1.2 Gigawatts is just 0.01 Gigawatts short of the 1.21 Gigawatts needed to power the Delorean Time Machine in Back To The Future.
Gigawatts Jiggawatts
Love this!
Not sure I agree about the short courses, I did a full apprenticeship but the chap I'm training at the moment did all his tech cert 1 & 2 off his own back in six weeks because day release in older life to retrain is not practical. In the time since he's gained enough knowledge to be on par with a 3rd year apprentice and be left to do a consumer unit on his own. However he did look and ask for help before taking on the short course and the issue is many don't try to get a ride along on evenings or weekends to help expand knowledge beyond the course as the course alone isn't enough.
If you have taken the long route or short route in training may well make you think that the long term is the outright winner every time......I would say being unbiased either way that you cannot TEACH common sense and good judgement in the REAL world....the scenarios you are subjected to in the training room will never be what you see on the tools etc....but and understanding of the regs (read them regularly like a good novel) and thinking safety 100% of the time...and not thinking what will get you by lol....... surely is a competent person...great news as always Joe....keep it coming
Six weeks! I did a 5 year apprenticeship, taught by some of gods finest electricians and have been in the trade 40+ years. I'm still learning my trade. No wonder there are so many fires.
Agreed, I did 4 years at college straight into a full time job worked for two and half years then moved into another job with a different company for another five years . Been an electrician thirty years or so, and yes I am still learning.
Same here. I'm now a forensic engineer investigating electrical failures including many fires. This six-week electrician program should keep me busy into my retirement (and I don't blame those in the program, just the idiots that came up with it).
So someone finally agreed what us sparks have been saying about these 6 week wonders, if only they were a danger to themselves and not everyone around them. Beyond useless
Are they dangerous though? They may be bloody slow and ask stupid questions about how to do simple things, and take ages to clip straight runs of cable, but "dangerous"? Not IMHO. They are irritating, slooooow, and you can't give them stupid irrelevant tasks to do (like when us old farts were new), but not many are dangerous. Most know their limitations, especially the older ones who have decided to retrain after years in other careers. They don't tend to go into this trade just for a hoot, or because they think it's a piss-easy road to riches, or because someone tells them they should do it (like more than one sparky I know, told they'd be great, because their dad/uncle/sister's boyfriend was an electrician too, and then ended up on the tools and on day release to college as soon as they left school by default, not really choosing it as a vocation!)
The ones who do 6 weeks and think they know everything, and take on things out of their league are another story!
Give these “6 week sparks” a multi function tester and a wiring fault in a building and see how far they get 😂
Haha, I’m literally on one of these courses right now in Scotland, that being said, I’m an experienced manufacturing facilities engineer with a mechanical background, transitioning into building controls fit outs.
To me this is the target market for these courses, to build upon existing engineering knowledge with electrical safety, rather than taking someone straight off the street & making them a spark.
I’m on a 2.5 week course, a week of electrical safety, a week of board familiarisation & 2 days of automated switches/relays. Then 3 months shadowing before I’m let loose on site on my lonesome
I've worked with some lads that have done apprenticeship and fast track and the worrying thing was the shoddy workmanship and lack of knowledge from the apprentice trained guys. The 6 week wonder was far more competent and turned out a better quality of work 👌🏼
I’ve experienced the same. Some of the “6 week wonders” are aware that their training isn’t what it should be, so take extra care and do extra research.
Whilst complacency can creep in with the apprenticeship lads. Also if they had a crap mentor on their apprenticeship, why should we assume they’re going to be good sparks.
Of course, they'll be slower too, but so long as they aren't 17, should have the brains to put in the extra care needed. I've no doubt that 6 weeks is enough to get most, if not all of the theory down, it's the hands-on practical stuff which takes years to perfect. If you don't join an electrical firm who are breathing down your neck to get small jobs done chop-chop, you can take that time and make sure the job is every bit as good as the time-served boys churn out.
Possibly down to maturity and a maturity approach.
"1.2 GW: that's enough to power 600 electric cars for a year"
I cringe when the media make that mistake, but I know you guys know what you're talking about!
i think it's enough to power the back to the future de lorean
Yur, think the scriptwriters had a mind fart that day.
Many years ago a course was introduced for building control that allowed them the authority to test, and to certify domestic installations after only a few weeks, the inspectors were quick to tout their new found certificates, ignoring the fact that decades of experience was far more valuable. It has always struck me as odd that 'courses' are collected by officials, as if they were the real deal. When I served my time, they assured me that that was the beginning of my learning, and the end would stop only when I was dead.
How much skill is there in using an ohm meter to make resistance measurements of cables and compare them to a table to ensure they are low enough?
1 day, a week, 1 year, 10 years?
I think the industry needs, more input from the governing bodies on actual day to days and see competencies there. Whether you take a short course or an apprenticeship to doesn’t make you any better or worse in my opinion, you could be in the industry many years but don’t have the qualifications and want to obtain them but can’t afford an apprenticeship wage who are far more knowledgeable and understanding then the 20 year old new qualified apprentice
Hmmm, the "governing bodies", are these the clubs you pay to join so they can tell you that you are competent?
All I can think about was terminator.
I'm glad the guy made it out.
Yeah, it's horrific isn't it? Could have been so much worse.
The question is how did that happen.
I've had my electric smart meter replaced twice in 2 years. The first was an army cook 8 weeks prior to my job and the second a bank clerk. Both said they are taught parrot fashion for 8 weeks and would not know how to diagnose a lighting cct to save their life nor any idea about ohms law. They are "Certified Cut out Pullers and Meter Changers".
But that's all they do, pull the fuse and change the meter, I'm sure they were adequately qualified for the job. They don't give a toss about anything else, all they have to do is change the meter, not diagnose anything. The installation on the customer's side of the meter is not their problem.
I want to know why it takes 8 weeks to learn about safe isolation, then replacing a meter and some tails?
My partner gets shocks from B and M trolleys. I said to her occasionally touch the trolley with a key . That way you don’t feel the shock as you have a larger skin surface taking the shock . She sometimes forgets though.
In my experience, doing an apprenticeship does not automatically guarantee some one is going to be a quality spark.
There’s plenty of “property qualified” sparks out there doing work that’s RAF.
600 cars "for a year" .. You lost me now, they were not talking about Watt Hours, they were talking about Watts, so I don't understand the reference for adding a time to the conversation.
The trouble is, the number of (fully competent, I won't use the phrase qualified, as I think that phrase is part of the problem) electricians needed is rising, the amount the consumer is willing to pay is falling, the numbers retiring or leaving (as I have done) and the paucity of those completing apprenticeships simply doesn't add up. By a very long way. Not a problem limited to electrical work. Doctors, nurses, STEM teachers, engineers. You name it, the list is long. A vibrant economy needs so many skills, and the UK sadly lacks them in vast numbers. Adding more tests and more qualifications will not resolve it. Always, the mantra goes, more training, longer training. When what we need is competency, which I do not feel the heavily bureaucratic system we now have remotely delivers. I have seen work done by some 6 week wonders. Some bad, some good, some great, some very bad (only one person that I am aware of locally). To paint them all as 'bad' is disingenuous at best. I have see work done by fully apprenticed, qualified, registered and certified electricians. A lot, as you would hope, very good. Some of it poor, some atrocious. The key word, and used in actual legislation as I call, is competence. Not something you can measure with a tick list.
I did a 6 week course with Trade Skills 4 U. It was awful. I passed fine but the fact they lead you to believe you're allowed to go out there on your own and start up your own business is crazy. It's just a money making exercise for them, no help after and don't like feedback either. Stay clear of the 6 week courses!
Trade skills 4U hire conference rooms In premier in at Heathrow and a hotel in central London , they sometimes hire the work shops At Uxbridge college usually At weekends or during term holidays. The don’t even have the common Curtesy the answer peoples questions on there you tube videos.
Adult apprenticeships are a nice idea but not realistic. You cannot expect a 35 year old with a mortgage to work for apprenticeship wages and wait 5 years to earn proper money. And if someone is only interested in domestic work then why should they spend years learning how to install industrial containment?
It's also quite odd that Scotland has higher standard for electricians and yet I spent some time up there and found the general standard of work I found to be quite poor in the domestic sector.
“And if someone is only interested in domestic work”
I trained with access training every Saturday and Sunday for a year. It was a lot to take in at first. their model is you learn the theory first and then move to the practical. I was originally thinking that I'd finish the course and rewire my house... which I did. full rewire on a 4 bed semi with garage supply and relocation of the meter cupboard. a great learning curve. that was back in 2019 and have been working on my own since 2020. Joined the NICEIC and haven't really looked back. The problem is the lack of focus on any real-life problems/installations. the classroom can't show you that. and there's no way I'd be able to survive off apprentice wages. so if the industry needs electricians then there needs to be some kind of balance struck.
I worked as a construction project manager for a well known supermarket chain, after a refit of a store static shocks started being an issue. It transpired it was the cleaning material being used on the floor, once this was changed the problem went away. Sadly I cannot recall the materials used as this was some 30 years ago.
1:56 Is there any reason WHY you didn't say 1.21GW?
A lot of electrians who did apprenticeships don't seem to understand 95% of an apprenticeship is doing non-electrical work such as drilling holes, cleaning up, planning routes etc. If you already 10 years of experience doing those sort of non electrical jobs then you spend 6 weeks solid learning about electrical theory and regulations you're not going to be too far off the apprentice who's just finished 4 years and is possibly 10 or more years younger!
Lol. OK there buddy.
I avoid shocks from trolleys by always keeping my finger on the metal part when pushing it around, as you say keeping it continually grounded will keep it from building up a charge. This isn't hard to do; reaching the metal frame with your middle finger from the handle is easy.
I went to college with someone and bumped into him at TLC, around 6ish months after we finish college. He told me that he's a fully qualified electrician n he's doing some domestic bits (hence TLC) with a family member who's actually a REALLY sparky.
I didn't want to tell him that he's NOT a really sparky like a am.
The government needs to STOP all these instant "electrician's". As all their doing is fucking shit up and causing fires.
But I'm guessing that's NEVER going to happen, due to them loving money so much. 🤬
causing fires'? Even some 'qualified electrician' work I've seen is s hi te. "I've been doing this for 30 years.." they say.
You get qualified drivers that are awful similar to some qualified electricians that are worse so we have a dilemma here.
Used to operate a scissor lift in one of the McArthur glen shopping centres that used to build up a right charge, so when you lent out to get the light fittings you got a massive belt. So we stripped some earth wire to the frame and when we got to our destination touched the other end to something metal and got a big satisfactory blue flash of light.
Short courses have their place. I would opt to undertake one if I was looking to move into working on the tools. Right now I could register for part P. I hold certification in the regulations, a degree in electronic & electrical engineering as well as post graduate courses, as someone who has designed components used by electricians the theory isn't the issue. I would want to be able to show that I am able to undertake practical work as well as learning some tips.
In order to pay for my degree, whilst unemployed, I took a "two" year full time City and Guild's course in plumbing as well as getting practical experience. Apart from the practical classes, the theory could have been covered in a couple of weeks. I enjoyed the lead working unit. Though I can make boxes and scupper liners from a sheet of lead without cutting and welding, I don't know of any modern plumbers who use those skills. I wasn't allowed to keep the box!
I ended up working for a guy who was, plumbing's version of a six week wonder.
Varioplate sounds like the system we used on bulkheads in the oilfields offshore in 1970’s.
I got out of electrical game 24 years ago and have no intention of going back. unfortunately I'm still working on constriction site's.
Didn't manage to get out of that one.
Need to remember my wander lead next time I’m in B&M 😮
Good advice. 😊
I’m just coming to the end of my Level 3 testing and inspecting course. So been about 12weeks training when including the dei, 18th edition etc before hand. Reading that these kind of courses arent particularly liked by ‘electricians’ is alittle worrying. I, in no way, consider myself an electrician but at 38 yo hope somebody see’s a potential and a desire to help me start on the learning journey to being one
Good luck Ed. I retired at 58 after 30 years in aerospace engineering and did a four week wonder course with EC4U in Sussex. At no stage did this organisation suggest you’d be as ready as a time served apprentice even for domestic work. I shadowed an experienced electrician for two years and did my own minor works, there was and continues to be shedloads of learning on the tools. I think the key issue is to know your limits and have the same high integrity approach that aerospace instilled in me. I was about to join NAPIT but the entry requirements changed, requiring Level 3 test & inspection which I couldn’t justify. I’ve got more non-notifiable work than you can shake a stick at, as the big boys don’t want the little jobs.
1.2GW - no way, that would be about 1/15th of the entire UK's capacity. 1.2GWh per year, perhaps.
The issue with training for adults is twofold. First, there aren't enough apprenticeships and second the wage won't pay the rent for those who don't have a sugar daddy or savings.
What about those who have worked within the industry for years but have decided that this is the path they wish to follow. They have the knowledge why not fast track them?
Tescos had that static issue on their clothing section, due to the type of flooring in that area and the trolley wheel material, I hated getting dragged down them isles by the missus, always got zapped when I cane out.
I personally went on a fast course however it still took me over a year to complete level 2 and 3 and now another year still doing my nvq it’s down to the individual learner i don’t personally understand how anyone can think they are qualified after 6 weeks 😂
Static shocks off supermarket trollies isn't new. I've had loads in my time.
Also, I had a part time job in a large Woolco back in the 70's. One day I was asked to help out in the carpet dept. Using a pump-up truck designed to lift carpets, there was one almighty 'crack' and a big bright spark ⚡ jumped from the trolley to the metal racking. So glad it wasn't me that touched the metal racking first ⚰ r.i.p.
Brizole is a good place to work.. done quite a few big jobs down there, I dribbled when i saw the megger x1 footage on there UA-cam channel.. was toying with metrel.. but have always had a megger... well done as always Joe
I am currently on my level 3 at trade skills 4 u, I am under no illusions I'll become an electrician at the end. In Fact you are made to sign to say you won't be, but it will give me valuable knowledge and qualifications to keep learning and work towards my nvq. All in all it will take me a minimum of 2 years if not more. Sadly there are not many options as an adult to train.
We could manufacture earthing traps for shopping trolleys :)
I'm not a fan of static shocks. So i would tap the shelf with my foot (shoe) first before touching the shelf/produce. Maybe they can have one of them anti-static strips dragging on the floor on the trolley, bit like you saw on cars many years ago.
Whipper-snapper and direct-indirect are my choice for this weeks words. Do they count as 2 words or are they 4? I like the French idea of making car parks have Solar PV. The UK goverment needs to do something similar. Like Solar PV or wind turbine on all government buildings. Abviously they will also need to install battery storage for the best use of that renewable energy.
Excellent comments as always Sergio! 😊
Great podcast Joe!
Cheers Nick! 😊
My question is how many deaths/injuries from electrical faults have been attributable to an electrician that did a six week course? Is there a stack of evidence to suggest six week course attendees frequently fail to complete work to BS7671? Do they fail to keep up with CPD compared to long course counterparts? Do they intentionally complete shoddy sub standard work with the intention of putting someone’s life at risk? Even a DIYer with no course can do electrics and as long as it meets the requirements of BS7671 is there really a headache over it? When I next phone a taxi I’ll be sure to ask if they have been a taxi driver for at least 20 years so I’m safe in the comfort they are less likely to crash. Also let’s not let anyone drive on the road until they have had 5 years worth of lessons prior to a test. That should give them enough experience not to crash into another car or pedestrians and kill someone.
1:58 1.2 GW of energy production? Is that the Total specified output of the Array at peak performance.
You know as well as me that maximum output is only available for1 month around the Summer Solstice. The rest of the output is on a Bell Curve, Through the day over the year! And we are talking the Metro Centre.
A day like today My solar panels produced 2watts instead of the max of 6kilowatts as it was foggy... still I have to pay for the loans for them...
It took me from 1976 to 1981 to become a sparky! 6 weeks! How to be a clever cowboy!
I have spoken to a person doing electrical work with not one qualification. And has not worked with a spark they say from speaking to a college they should just do level 3 and a 6 week course. There work is a big zero.
1.2 Jiggawatts, that's almost enough to charge a Delorean!
Tom, how am I going to generate that kind of power?
😂😂😂
Does this mean we can now start bonding shopping trollies 🤣🤣🤣
I agree with the 6 week wonders.
I did a 2 weekend EAL II to keep building control off my back for DIY. While the testing element was useful it was idealised (no real world stuff like sensitive electronics hiding all over the circuit), on the install side it taught me nothing new.
Worse: it taught nothing about the more esoteric residential stuff. No armoured, no generator supply stuff (eg multiple earthing), no when is TN-C-S ok to export and when do you need a local TT, nothing about hottubs.
To be fair, I've already moaned that a fully qualified registered electrician left me with a dangerous generator inlet and seemed un confident on the earthing.
So yeah. Short courses have a place, perhaps kitchen fitting where minor alterations need to be made.
But if I wanted to do work for other people, I'd want to do an apprenticeship.
Both domestic where you learn the tricks of getting around a building, under awkward floors etc.
And also industrial where standards are high and work is neat. I've always been most inspired by datacentre cabling.
Oh! God kitchen fitters . How many have I spoke to them and they say loudly " I have a Part P" as if they are an expert and it substitutes an apprentice ship. And how many times have I done remedial work on a kitchen circuit.
You aren't the only ones. The IT industry has been inundated with 'exam cram' books for years. I have met many folks who claim to have all the latest IT qualifications and yet they seemed to know a lot less than me (and I didn't have any of those qualifications).
There is no thing as a full recover after being in knee height in molten aluminium.
We use a similar system to those vario-plates for cable entry to clean rooms through the walk-on ceiling. Handy but one boring job when you have 100's of points
You'd be amazed what a person can learn in six weeks.
Well I can tell you now, it’s nowhere near enough to go around calling yourself an electrician.
I’m curious how they fill the second 3 week of the course.
6 bloody weeks is a bit of stretch. Here in poland we do a an online course over the weekend . Entitling installation work upto 230v ,,, want to install solar panels as well ... that's an add on , another full day....
Seems uk is very closed shop
Surely not, we British sparkies just LUUUURVE Eastern European tradesmen, hold them in great esteem, and welcome the competition /s
I have used electricians in the business for years do a shoddy job... 6 months to do domestic work seems reasonable to me though.
I
Talking about 6 week courses I was on a job about a year ago . They had chucked the electrician off the job. They got him from check a trade . He was a ex school teacher been on a course for a few weeks. He had cut large holes all over the living rm ceiling as he didn’t know how to lift floor boards .
He had spurred off a spur for extra sockets and wagos everywhere and not in a proper enclosure . Surface wiring on stud walls . In the kitchen he had led spot lights . Some were white and some warm white . I had to put it right as they said no point in getting him back. On top of that they had to get the ceiling in the living room re skimmed.
I've seen some s#@t left behind by respected and time served sparks, the builders and homeowners down know any different and the sparks get away with it.
Isn't having a lot more holes in the ceiling the norm when floorboards can't be lifted
Super and spark?
I have seen some of these “I did 5 years City Guilds in my day” types! Some of them leave a holy mess, it amazes me how some are still alive. 99% are brilliant are there job and take pride in there work every day. But some are just a danger to themselves and others! 6 weeks is ridiculous! But I will say the new breed are a lot safer.
It's takes years to become a qualified tradesman (any trade) not 6 weeks. If someone tells you they can train you in that time then they are either lying or stupid. Is that really who you want to learn from?
1,2 giga watts, nearly enough for a delorean, I would say those short electrical courses should be applauded, they have managed to condense, what every bodger needs to know into a few weeks, this would usually take years, for the vast majority, bravo 😂😂
I did a 5 yr crash course in sparking and 7 yrs college.
😂Love this.
How do you accidentally make a van de graf (no idea if I spelled that right) trolley?
Have you not been suspended Joe?😂😂
6 week sparks, what a joke! Heard them called 'boil in the bag sparks' on one job, quick to prepare but usually crap!!
Completely agree, 6 week courses should be banned. Worked with an idiot years ago who came off of one of these courses, he was a farm worker a few months before, had virtually no tools, no experience, no clue and was on the same money as me (them days, about £7 an hour). He was f#ck1n useless.
Great idea to propel PV systems into towns by France.
We liked it! 😃
I think that the six week wonder debate really does need to happen as I believe there is a place for the "Domestic electrician" . But what about three week wonders like me ? I am a carpenter and a Clerk of Works not an electrician but have done lots of kitchen fitting. Back in 2006 I did a one week 16th Edition Course ( before open book exams) , followed by a one week electrical installations course (domestic) , a 3 day part p course and a 2 day pat testing course all supported by city and guilds. . I have since done a 17th and 18th addition update courses . I did the courses because then as now its almost impossible to get a sparks to do the little jobs that need to be done now when fitting kitchens and the likes. Am I a liability ? I do not believe I am as I am neat , methodical , and understand what I am and am not allowed to do. What I have seen consistently is absolutely rubbish work carried out by "reputable and registered companies" The problem is not the standard of the training but the calibre of the individuals and the lack of supervision from companies. I have also found the "competent worker " scheme companies totally useless when you make a complaint. and as for local authority building control they are so understaffed and overworked they could not check anything and the unscrupulous companies know this .
I think there is a debate to be had.
There is clearly an assumption - by the electricians on here that have gone down the route of lengthy apprenticeship - that 6 weeks isn't long enough.
But apprenticeships are not full time study so of course they are going to be longer. And they cover a lot of content which isn't required for residential installations.
Perhaps I should go look at the syllabus of this 6 week course and assess it.
As long as you stick to house bashing. I am fed up with the domestic spark who thinks they can do commercial and industrial work I see daily domestic sparkles slamming grey t&e in thinking its acceptable. I have a list as long as my arm of the domestic mindset in a commercial/industrial world and its dangerous.
Definitely agree with apprenticeships being the best way to become experienced and not just good at passing exams and labelling inexperienced people as qualified . Stonking whippersnapper???
Hi, much as I enjoy you informative features, you made a serious error of judgement featuring the image a young female, when criticising 6 week wonder courses indicating bias towards youth, and the gentler sex, shame misogyny alarms ringing
You've seen it that way, says more about you than them.
Insurance will kill the six week wonders, it's always the leveller.
When you agree to a smart metre, the chap that comes round has only had 2 weeks worth of training.
I asked him some questions and he did not have a clue.
He was a plumber by trade....
They installed my neighbours smart meter while he was out. Last week it started smoking and crackling and he knocked my door asking what to do. I told him to call the DNO, they came and surprise surprise nothing was tight in the terminals in the cut out. Its the most basic of things sometimes.
Was the mystery word “bitcoin”?
Regarding the subject of "good old aprentiship way" or "6 week qualified"(wich I never heard of) I remeber havig the same line of debate a few weeks ago on same channel,that is here,and I do remember and keep my idea that "good old anything" is not up to date...why?just because I was led be an "good old style" gold card with only 16th edition that was on a refurbishment job and he was wiring a hotel every 2 rooms on the same feed,linking them,had no idea of doing containment as was not able to do set of trays ,45's on a tray and baskets,and he was testing and registering datas from readings with an old Megger with the calibration expired 6 months before the moment I been brought to know of.So please,spare me the " good old ways" as if even a young person(nice to say I seen more and more young ladies going for this trade) would find a apprentice role(wich is not ever possible as majority of employers ask for experience e qualifications),those people whom would find such would be payed neatly to nothing(exploiting them) and even not much to learn because majority of jobs would be chasing,clearing areas,labouting,etc wich would definitely NOT make you an electrician...By the way,the "good old school gold card" was from Birmingham's area....any coincidences?!?!
P S.we either stay with the standards and improve in new ways or you want a Brexit(no political connection) on this trade as well and keep standards to " old school way"?
Pity the isolation switch is not able to be locked off!!!
2nd time winning hopefully this time I will receive it
Don’t hold your breath
Lots of goodies being shipped as we speak! 😃
Stonking and whipper snapper…👍
Good guesses Harry, make sure you're listening next week to see if you got it! 😃
Bitcoin and Whipper-Snapper
Are the two words bitcoin and brisol?
I've done a course with access training. I have my wiring regs, building regs, lvl 2 fundamental inspection and testing, lvl 3 initial verification, level 3 periodic inspection and testing, lvl 2 dei and lvl 3 installation and maintenance of electrotechnical systems. I didn't do an apprenticeship. Am I not to be considered competent now then?
What practical experience gave you gained? Do you meet the requirements of the experienced worker route 👉www.ecscard.org.uk/content/how-to-apply-Experienced-Worker-Assessment
@efixx spent a few years with my father when I was younger but not officially doing any sort of apprenticeship. Still doing lots of labour work, learning how to use power tools, learning the layout of houses etc. Also the practical element of the training offered by access training and the portfolio element of the lvl 3 installation and maintenance of electrotechnical systems.
Great video Joe.
I have seen dangerous installations carried out by electricians with 20 years of experience in the bag, NCEIC registered and with all the logos they can possibly fit on their vans.
Individuals need, can and should have the opportunity to retrain, especially in uncertain times as nowadays.
It's a case of taking pride and interest in what you do, and if you don't know what you're doing, then don't do it.
Simple as that.
SELECT in Scotland are not particularly forward thinking in any great way. I would agree that 6 week courses are of no use, but doesnt mean to say the only way is a “traditional” apprenticeship. Other versions of adult apprenticeships / training are viable, not just the ones SELECT & SJIB choose to recognise, not that they have any vested interests in them 🤔
Perhaps if SELECT/SJIB did a bit more proactive work around modernising, rather than simply defending tradition, the industry would move forward!
I expected more from The Head of SELECT as he has a communications background, but no all that is apparent is protectionism.
PS been a “real” sparky a long time (14th edition), before anyone says must be a 6 week cowboy!😮
6 week electrician? Recipe for fatality...
Stonking and Rogue
Great guesses Stuart, tune in next week to see if you got it! 😃
Hi, 50 years in the trade and you never stop learning ,every job is different , every few years they update the Regs and off we gone again ,from a plug top on a toaster to Nuclear Power station and lots in between . Under paid and over worked and loved it . Any one want some well experienced old tools ? that could tell some tails . A jack of all trades and tried to be a master of one . Best of luck lads .😃🤔 ,no 🤠on this site🤔. 🏴☠need not apply .
Spark and whippersnapper
Bristol people pronounce Bristle the t is not Pronounced
I thought it was Brittall .
So was I in the ball park? 😁
@@efixx closeish
Work in Bristol, get that slave trader money we paid them 4 the last century after they abolished their lucrative human trade.
Bristol! Whoop
Why can’t the governing bodies access there customers throughly to assume compliance that way. A qualification doesn’t make you a good electrician, it’s not real world. If you have the desire and the will to do good jobs. No matter of a short course or an apprenticeship you will do that.
Wells is the worst place to be an electrician and Bristol the best, 10 miles apart, I work 16 miles from Bristol and there’s gazillions of electricians 😳💁