Ngl ur the only person i can relate to that feels like this too. I swear d4 was an advertisement to PoE its literally the same game! Thats why i swapped to poe
@@RinWasHIDE unfortunately he is kind of right, from the shitty critics point of view d4 is like 8.8/10 or something like that? bullshit paid reviews ofc
@@TalkativeTri Thanks! 🙏 And trust me there's gonna be plenty more coming just like me, especially after Blizzard's latest patch notes 😂 The boys at GGG must be having a field day.
I don't see why not tbh. Ok maybe not win us over, but I expected D4 to be better. I want it to be better so I have something great to play when I'm done with Poe's season. But man... As I've said like 100 times now - it's just so boring.
@@JayBigDadyCy I expected something in the ballpark of what we got. Blizzard is targeting a larger and more casual audience on average. Although D4 won't distract my attention for any length of time, I think it's a pretty good foundation to build a seasonal arpg on. Comparing it to POE at launch (minus the technical discrepancies for the time gap) is a more realistic comparison. Some would argue that D4 should be amazing in every way considering the size of the development team and budget, but that creates unrealistic expectations imo. I know I'm in the minority, but I'm of the opinion Blizzard achieved a pretty decent balance considering the enormous spectrum of audience they were aiming to please.
@kenhiett5266 I see a lot of people give Blizzard a free pass on D4's shortcomings because it's "made for casual players." For an ARPG released in 2023, it feels extremely rushed and lacks so many quality of life features that are used by casual and hardcore players alike. D3 was definitely made for casual players, yet they still provided basic QoL features like previewing stat possibilities at the enchanter, much better inventory/stash system, map overlay. At this point, its like ordering a big mac, it's missing a bun, and lettuce, but saying its okay because McDonalds is for casual eaters.
I think it was Ghazzy who said PoE greatest feat was to hide the grind, and I agree. You do maps not only to kill monster and get loot, you have multiple mechanics that give It a twist, as you point, but mapping is a mean to an end, as you build towards an endgame boss.
@@Dead_Goat meh i can kinda agree with you but at least you can complete a map in sub 1 minute depending on which one you do where as d4 dungeons can take ages. You also dont have to kill everything in a PoE map.
I've quit D4 because it is incomplete, for developing a game for 4-5 years if not more it's incomplete and I understand the reason behind it, $$$... After of 9 years I went back to PoE, it's a totally different game and I love it to death, I even bought the some supporters packs to support the developers - they deserver it 100%. Probably will be the last game I ever play :) Hats off to GGG, PoE it has been made by true ARPG lovers!!! Cannot wait for Poe2
I've tried both, but to be honest PoE just looks really intimidating to most players. Diablo 3 made the game really accesible to anyone and I think thats what made it more popular besides it being a blizzard product. PoE looks good but tbh its too complex/work to understand for most people who don't have much attention or time.
They could easily have implemented a map system with the game. Imagine like an expedition into hell and you slowly start making your way through ancient tunnels, temples, ruins etc.
As a long time lover of Diablo (including D3) and other Blizzard games it's tragic to see so many of their great franchises ruined by limiting design and corporate nonsense. After thousands of hours across every Diablo title I finally gave POE a chance during Archnemesis League. I was hooked immediately. POE is everything Diablo could have been and so so so much more. After about a thousand hours, reaching end game every season, and watching just as much POE UA-cam as playing the game I can honestly say that I still learn something new and game changing every season. The learning curve for POE is totally insane and absolutely unfriendly to new players and I love it. My biggest challenge is getting my Diablo friends to come over. They just get bogged down by the learning curve. It would be great to have a noob friendly mode where you choose a pre-made classic build and the game hand holds you through selecting skills searching for items. Kind of line if a Max Roll build was just integrated into the game. That and adding some version of 3rd party tools into the base game; a few pre-made filters (auto load neversink's basic ones) & some of the trade functionality you get from Awakened Trade> I would really love to get my "9 to 5 dad gamer friends to play" because I know that they would love POE. They just need some hand holding for a few seasons. If POE wants a bigger chunk of the market they can totally add a few features to help guide new players without compromising the game. Thanks for the great content. I've been loving the "history of POE series".
Totally agree with most of your points. Thanks for the in-depth comment, and I appreciate you enjoying the current history series. So much more to come due to support of people like you!
Having experienced both games, I eventually found myself gravitating back to Crucible after quickly succumbing to the monotony presented in Diablo 4 (D4). I still maintain some optimism for D4, as it holds potential to evolve into an engaging game, albeit the journey to reach that stage might span across several years. Path of Exile (PoE), on the other hand, is a captivating experience that never ceases to amaze me, and it's heartening to witness its continual growth. Given the current momentum, I anticipate that this year's Exilecon will make a significant impact, potentially drawing in a sizeable influx of D4 players due to the rising hype around the event. I feel it's important to add a disclaimer that my PoE journey began during the Sentinel era, which means that the game was already fairly mature when I first started. Therefore, a like-for-like comparison of the two games, based on their initial release states, is something I'm unable to provide. However, there is an undoubted consensus amongst the community about which game stands superior, an assessment I wholeheartedly agree with.
I rarely think about it, but it's kinda mindblowing that PoE is free to play. And yeah, you will have to buy tabs eventually. But you can easily run campaign (multible times with multiple characters) and dabble in early mapping for free and for as long as you want. Which is pretty huge, yet barely scratches the surface. It just shows how much depth the game has, when devs can allow themselves to give so much for free and still be in business 10 years later.
@@Basuko_Smoker same. 3.5k hours. Playing (on and off) since 2014. Still learning. And there's no end in sight. lol As an old dude in forest encampment says: the end of learning is the beginning of death.
I spent a total of $20 on POE for 8 years. Last year I finally bought a supporter pack to show my love. If POE became a subscription game like WoW was, I'd still pay for it. Such a massive amount of entertainment and brain puzzles.
The thing is, people keep saying you can't compare POE to Diablo 4, but they're usually talking about in terms of the scale of content. My problem with Diablo 4 is the content itself. The objectives in dungeon maps are just not fun. What worries me more than the actual content in the game is actually how Joe Shelley responds to player feedback. He seems to misunderstand the problems that people have. If he cannot understand what the problems are, how can he fix them?
I totally agree. With more seasons there will be more endgame activities, but the problems currently are that those activities are boring. I dont want to go back and forth in a dungeon. I want to kill shit, kill a random boss, and next until more endgame activities are implemented in seasons.
That would be the question in general: Who at Blizzard has an idea about their own game? Every time i hear someone from Blizzard talk, i dont have the impression they know the game. Not even mentioning that video from the level designers who had no idea how to play their game. I started PoE a few days ago, i wont come back soon to D4. I dont see how their devs can fix the problems. I have not much hope the devs are good enough. Its not that it would be impossible to make a good game out of D4, but only with the right people.
Sad truth is a lot Of us Poe players wanted d4 to stand up to Poe and possibly even poe2 then the game came out and I’m like oh this is d3 with worse item levels and gear rolling mechanics
You do a good job of breaking down each league mechanic, you should go over all of them so that people like myself who have been playing for 10 years can finally understand the stuff I’m clicking lmao . Good channel, keep the POE coming
Yeah I've been playing almost since it came out and I have no idea how some of the content works. This is mainly because they keep changing things and I can't keep up. Like Horticrafting now seems to be unalterable, where it used to be random.
They shouldn't have made nightmare dungeons at all. They already had story events, story and pinnacle bosses that they could've turned into a progressional floor based system like the Nioh 2 underworld. 100 floors. Every 5 floors you get a pinnacle boss and can either decide to leave with the pinnacle boss reward or keep going. If you die, you lose everything. You get all loot after defeating the pinnacle boss (Can also use world bosses). If they wanted nmds, they should've just left the dungeons the same and increased difficulty in harder modes like in Lost Ark. Maps in PoE, while better than nmds aren't that great either imo. There's too many affixes causing maps you can't run on your build too. Reflect for example shouldn't be a passive, direct reflect but maybe occasionally cause AoE's with reflected damage that can be dodged.
D4 is literally doing free marketing for Poe at this point. Next ExileCon and eventual League will probably break records of viewership/players respectively
As you delve deeper, the layers of hell become harder, darker, more intense. You go from a feeling of burning to intense searing, from fear to outright panic, from dim light to flames that consume any trace of it. You delve deeper, ever deeper, into the darkening horrors of bedeviled wastelands..... but then you see it. Some light..... what is this? You bear closer to it; cautiously and with trepidation. The area become more lit, more colorful..... then you see them.... unicorns. Your blood curls, the hairs on your neck stand up then shrivel...... you realize one thing too late. You’re fucked.
@@TalkativeTri some were thinking instead of doing the poe campaign over and over again there could just be an endless delve instead of the campaign, id love that tbh
The guy shows Atlas Skill Tree contained mechanics of ALL previous leagues and says "it's quite understandable and intuitive" AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I've played PoE more than 7 years and love this game, but his phrase is ridiculous
As someone with 10k+ hours in PoE, I still think there's some things they can learn from Diablo, like the impactful combat, PoE is a bit of a lightshow with no actual weight behind the combat. PoE2 looks to rectify this.
100% this, just look at the gameplay in this video. He just runs around and completely destroy everything on the screen in a blink of an eye. That is not that fun either tbh. (Not saying D4 is the better game. I completely agree on most other stuffs).
as a guy who is a diablo fan who played EVERY diablo game , as well as a POE fan who plaed every league since the leages started in POE thats the only comment that i actually respected through out this section , including the video itself which with all do respect i found it as a POE fan boy vibe , i liked your comment because it was reasonable and fan boy free
As someone who played both (poe since 2014 in and out of leagues), i can understand where you come from. BUT the path towards being able to completely obliterate mobs in an instant is the reward in of itself. In d4 you can never have this because it all scales with you. In POE once you get a build essential item with good rolls, you can completely go from yellow maps to red maps for example. It is extremely satisfying. I can never tire of it because i personally never got to that point for a whole other reasons. In d4 i got to lvl 60ish twice and stopped for good because i never got rewarded for anything.
In d4 its kinda like: "wow i got an item that gives me 1% more vulnerable dmg... ok". Then you lvlup and it doesnt really matter anymore. That doesnt happen in POE. And i think its ONE of the most relevant differences between the two. And POE gets ahead in that and in almost every other mechanic
It's quite mind boggling given the team size, budget, and countless examples Blizz has from other ARPGs (even beside PoE) what they've come up with for both NM dungeons and the season 1 mechanic. That game has a lonnng road ahead of it to become engaging and for now I have lost the belief that the designers at Blizz have the genre knowledge to effect that change.
Last epoch demonstrated how they can take the lessons learned from poe, and make it their own. They have and endgame system akin to poes maps, but it's much simpler. Their crafting is also simpler, but still fun and engaging. I defo recommend Last Epoch to anyone who is daunted by Poe's complexity, but hates d4s shallow systems.
@@gaborfabian3967 absolutely. It's kinda like the blizz Devs have some weird pride thing where they can't take good ideas from other games or they don't actually play and know the ARPG genre much. They felt the need to reinvent a bunch of stuff that no one wanted reinvented (the way resists and resist stats work is a great example) instead. Just...puzzling.
@@Dommomos I definitely feel like it's an ego thing. The way they address feedback and the way they talk about content and the game in general makes me feel like they have a hard time speaking plainly/honestly or as if someone is holding them on a leash and preventing them from being fully open about anything.
@@ToyokaX yeah everything public has to go through their PR team for sure. This team has come quite a way compared to D3 in both game design and response to feedback so good on them, but it's still child's play compared to other genre offerings. When we contrast it to GGG - who are now quite a lot bigger themselves - it's like night and day.
@@Dommomos Indeed. It's sort of sad how sluggish Blizzard has become in their response to community feedback, and in their decision-making in general. I suppose it makes sense why most of the old guard left to make new companies with a smaller overhead and no suits looming over their every move. Blizzard is a perfect example of a company suffering from success that made it was it is today.
I switched 10 days ago. Now being an experienced PoE player with lvl 87 witch I can only say one thing: each nook and every nook and cranny of PoE has more depth than entirety of D4. So go play PoE D4 players, you will love it.
One of the first arguments is weird. Reality: we play the same map over and over in the endgame. We block like 90% of the mechanics to spawn the ones we care about, and do the same mechanic over and over again.
Some people play that way and it works well. I do a variety of maps and frequently swap between mechanics based on time in the league and what I’m searching for. You can do that, you can really sculpt it however you want.
Frost Blades! The class I’m using is the Shadow with the Trickster Ascendancy. There are a few builds of this up on YT, but I kinda looked at them all, used ideas from poeninja.com and made it my own.
Each tier does not offer better loot than the previous necessarily, there are plateaus with tier 70 being the ceiling and subsequent tiers being the same.
My guess is, Diablo 4 lead management people have no clue about the ARPG genre and the game was developed in way shorter period of time, then most tend to think. The game was spit out in like 3 years, while most of the time was spent on creating the graphics and feel of combat. The goal with the systems was to create a casual friendly and adictive combat and pickup loot to get stronger cicle. And that's pretty much it. The bar wasn't set any much higher for the release of the game. Like modern COD games. ARPG is a primarely PC game genre, yet almost every lead dev plays it on console with a controller, that says enough for me. I think the lead tech or gameplay guy does some great stuff and his talks are good too, hope there are more people on the team, who know what they are doing and where they are heading with the game.
The atlas passive tree is the main reason a friend of mine kept playing the entire Crucible league so far. They hadn't played PoE for a couple years, and the atlas passive tree allowed them to one by one learn all the newly added mechanics. They specialized in each mechanic over the course of the league, going entirely by their own pace. I think that's really crucial (and also mentioned in the video), to take things in PoE one at a time to avoid the feeling of getting overwhelmed. The atlas passive tree was truly the best ever addition to achieve exactly that: Go step by step, learn mechanics one by one. Then pick your favorite(s) and have a blast playing the game (or keep rotating mechanics, whatever one prefers - it's such a great system really).
As a Diablo fan , I'm sad to say I agree. The biggest salt in the wound here is the amount of microtransactions in a game I already spent $100 on for the upgraded version. The only big negative to me in POE is no crossplay/crossprogression. Funny that I'm now going to POE as I was ready to play D4 for years.
atlast tree is pretty chill, even i can build there on my own and everyone can find what they enjoy and fit their build its amazing since they added it cant hold my self... i need new league sooo badly
I like POE but the crafting is to complex imho, I like farming the maps, but in the end I felt I could not loot anything from monsters and equip directly it without having to spend gazillions chaos or devines.
I'm a casual, my builds never cost more than a couple hundred chaos (easy enough to get with the chaos recipe) and although I have never killed an Uber boss I run T16's no problem and I have a ton of fun getting to the point where I can kill some of the tougher (non-uber) bosses. I still don't know much about crafting except for basic stuff but some day lol. Hope you give it another chance!
you can easily pick up a build like rf, pick up items off the ground and use crafting bench + vendor recipes to get to yellow maps. If you are talking about killing uber maven with items you pick up from the ground, that's not meant to be. It's called endgame for a reason, not everyone is meant to get 100%. If you're casually playing with no build and no crafting/trading then you are not meant to do these extreme challenges that are supposed to be designed for the "one percenters" of path of exile.
Great vid. I honestly think a lot of people who have never played PoE or saw it as a bit daunting (PoE has a reputation like Dark Souls does for good reason) probably are playing D4 and are bored af. PoE is my second most played game of all time behind WoW, of which I haven't played in 5 years (HC raider back in the day. Something like 500 days played....). And it's my second most played for good reason. I could talk about the depth, the end game, the crazy amount of different gear and choices, build etc... But at the end of the day i just love getting a build to a point where i can farm and sell the stuff i farm to make tweaks to eek out a better and better build over time. I almost always feel like I'm striving towards a goal in PoE and that's what D4 is missing dearly. There aren't a lot of choices for anything. The dungeons are samey and no one likes the objectives in the dungeons. Plus monster density is lacking as well. I won't get into much more about D4 as i could go on for paragraphs. But if you're reading this and you've never given PoE a try, I urge you with all force to jump on in. It's an amazing, amazing game.
Those people eventually, if they Keep playing arpg's, Will realise that the only way to have a great endgame is to have a world full of challanges and mechanics that you get to interact, which I only found satisfying to do in PoE surprisingly enough lol
i wanted to thank you for the video. since i'm new to poe i watched a whole bunch of video's for beginners and i have to say that your video -- altho it wasn't aimed to be a "beginners guide" video -- told me more about the endgame than soooo many other videos. your way of explaining is simple but complex enough to include important aspects. i have the feeling that many veteran can't see clearly if they try to teach stuff about poe. things which are obvious for them aren't for us beginners and they just gloss over it. what i noticed too is that they get stuck explaining a mechanic in detail but fail to mention what that mechanic is actually for and why its important. for example i love ziz and i love how much effort he puts into his videos but honestly as a beginner his videos are just bad to really understand whats going on. mostly theory only without any practical example. he explains things by trying to use as little words as possible and uses other unknown words and concepts to explain an unknown mechanics. its like explaining something with the same word: "what is love? love is when you love someone." sure he doesn't use the same word but another words which is also now known to a beginner so the result is the same. here is another example. i wanted to know what maps are and how the map device works. well... no one started out by explaining, in low resolution, abstract and trying to include the essence of what maps, atlas and the map device is for. it could be so simple... "if you finish the campange there are no left areas/regions for you to explore and since the world is not scaling (the mobs stay at their level) one needs content to go further, level up, find new challenges, new encounters and loot. here comes the map device into the game. the map device can create portals to a level/instance. there are different kind of mechanics in the game which let you create special levels/instances. the most common one are maps. we are able to customize the maps to our liking via the atlas. all the different mechanics and masters we got to know a little bit by leveling up can be skilled into to have greater chances to see those mechanics in our maps again and progress further" maybe you have the time and motivation to make a guide for beginners since you are so good at it :)
Thanks for sharing your experience, new exile! I'm working on this RIGHT NOW and know it'll be a huge help to many. Stay tuned and welcome to Wraeclast :)
The feeling you're describing about difficulty explaining things at times is referred to (apparently only since 1989 though?? ty wikipedia) as the curse of knowledge. It can be very difficult to explain new and complex topics to a complete beginner if you're something of an expert, and a similar problem to that which I personally worry about sometimes is that what might be useful and thorough explanation to someone *brand new* to the game might feel condescending to someone who has played for maybe 50-100 hours and is looking for a bit more advanced detail. Agreed that @TalkativeTri does a good job with this. It's difficult!
@@ThomasWinget well, sure its difficult to explain something if one doesn't think it through. i don't think its that hard. for example i saw no one using visualizations for explaining something. not that they had to but it comes in handy when talking about a complex topic to break it down into little things. i dont think that people worry about people feeling condescending but there is a point. most guides and videos are from veterans for veterans. they use language or concept which are known to them or use bad wording but an experienced player just corrects the word in their own mind. i just watched 3 videos about timeless jewels. none of them explained it structured, complete and in easy terms. the explanations where all over the place. The Timeless Jewels have their Jewel name (I) (i think there are 5), they have a number (II) then they have another name 'NAME OF X) (III) and a third name 'BY X' (IV). There are thee kinds of skill three points which can be transformed: a) normal smallest skill point b) bigger skill point 'nodable' and c) the biggest skill point 'keystone'. Ziz for example said "the number says what the small nodes do"... well thats wrong the number says what a and b does. just because of this i had to search and figure it out by myself because i wanted to focus on transforming a nodable. this knowledge could have easily been shared by stating correctly and completely what is being effected. then he says "what the name does is that it changes the keystone" WAIT we have three names here I II I and IV what name are you referring to? Sure i later found out that name I and name IV doesn't really matter -- or does it? i bet is has some meaning but its not explained. Its very important if one has so many variables explaining them each by each and how they correlate to other variables. if one just ignores variables it's important too to articulate that one is ignoring them and why. Its not that hard... i never had the situation that the material i try to learn is that bad structured and i taught myself a bunch of things i had no clue of. i don't try to blame the teacher but honestly i try my best and i'm spending so much time and effort the get this knowledge and learn. the explainations are so lacking that i found myself in the situation to write a whole forum post/thread just to clear things up and fill the gaps the video left me with. by doing this i'll spend even more time. i do this but i cba to do this every time. 8 of 10 answers are anyways just useless. the result is that in so many areas i just gave up like the syndicate. if a veteran is making these video for experienced poe players, thats fine for me but it seems that people like ziz really care to help and guide new players but don't really notice that they could be doing a better job. one other thing -- which one can see in all different branches of sharing knowledge -- is that one tells you what to do but doesn't care to explain why. gift someone a fish or teach someone to fish bla bla bla.
@@TalkativeTri thank you i really appreciate it. most people are usually put off when seeing a wall of text. taking the time to read it and care about it is nice specially if one doesn't use the best form of english^^ sorry its not my first language -- as you probably noticed :D -- but i hope my points got through :)
Even Last Epoch has a better end game system, btw not many D4's players will move to poe, maybe they will take a look but most will run away scared from the complexity. D4 atm is an empty game, and isn't bad, cuz it can be filled in with great contents. Btw, great video, I'm slowly returning to poe after 2 year not playing it :)
They should do a hell maps system where we open up portals to different parts of hell to do hell raids or something, change nm dungeons to be mostly for farming aspects, maybe guaranteed aspect drops with a wider range of rolls? Itd be nice to know after every nm dungeon i will get a certain aspect, then all you're hoping for is a good roll.
Blizz should have based the mapping system in D4 on what it was in D3 : random to the point you go into a specific cave in the world once, it might not be there next time youre in that zone, if it is guess what, the layout is different . . . throw in rare mobs . . . with rare items . . . Kill monsters to get the boss to spawn was in D3 ( before POE ), I cant speak for earlier versions of Diablo, and thats something I agree with here . .
I might disagree 100% with you on some subjects, but I really appreciate the positive tone and outlook of your videos. It seems everyone is a doomer nowadays, its cool to listen to someone talk about a subject they actually enjoy and are not shy to show it
GGG is basically Blizzard North 2.0. Smaller team going against top dogs. The difference is that GGG isnt controlled by a corporate overlord like Blizzard north and current Blizzard is.
Idk why you even bring up harvest. It is absolutely worthless to the casuals and beginners in it's current state. Why not showing some of the awsome builds we can make here instead? Try to do that in d4! Or the monster density in unjuiced, little & high investment maps. D4 endgame seem to be boring for most people and dungeons are pretty empty
Kind of ironic don't you think ? Most of blizzard's biggest IPs all came from copying other games then refining them and polishing them. Warcraft = command and conquer, wow = Neverwinter, overwatch = team fortress, hearthstone = magic the gathering etc etc. In fact thanks to David Brevik and Co a Diablo might be the only truly original genre they started!
The biggest Problem with Diablo4 is the fact that it is a product of greed. Pure greed by the publishers. Diablo 4 is AT LEAST 2 years away from being even remotely close to something that one could call a finished product. There is so much downgrade going from D3 to D4 that it makes me truly wonder what Blizzard even anticipated how the launch would play out. The balance is all over the place. The gameplay loop is horribly boring. Helltides are a good concept implemented badly. World Bosses are just a big Fail. All the time we're dismounting to climb up a ledge, slide down some crap or jump over a river is just forces elongation of playtime. There is no REAL reason to continue playing the game after you've gotten to level 70-80ish. There's no grind for the best gems. There's no grind to actually level up anything. The crafting system is just laughable. We still drop white and blue loot that literally SERVES NO FUCKING PURPOSE, it's "gold" that takes up a shitton of inventory. Runes and their level ups are a good concept that, once again, has been implemented ridiculously. I'll be back in a year - Season5 or so and hopefully things might have meaningful improved by then. Sad truth is that this will be around the time that Path of Exile 2 releases so there's not a shadow of a doubt in my mind that D4 is going to lose that battle (even whilst im kind of expecting a big part of the PoE1 playerbase to be disliking PoE2).
The dungeons are so god damn thoughtlessly boring. Its like they put absolutely 0 time into the dungeons. No unique mechanics, no unique vistas, no flow, and the same 4 or 5 cookie cutter objectives on repeat. They spent all this time working on nothing but assets and open world design, which still struggles as an open world.
I really dont get why Diablo 4 has no procedural generation in this game. Theres 135+ dungeons but theres like 6-7 different layouts and NOTHING else. I cant imagine it took blizzard 10 years to take 50 steps backwards.
Played both POE and Diablo 4 and it's true the endgame in POE is much better. Though everything else is better in DIablo 4; graphics, UI, ease and also complexity of skills, character customization, snappy controls, excellent voice acting and story/lore. The thing is, POE has been changing a lot since it has started to be better and aside from POE 2 coming out, I don't see them do anything about the clunky UI and clunky character controls. Diablo 4 in the other hand would easily add more monsters, bosses, maps, and dungeon, and dungeon mechanics (remember how it was on the beta compared to now - huge improvement). I understand that some poeple are hardcore POE cultists but let's give credit when it's due, Diablo is slightly better and has the potential to be so much more greater, and I'm sure POE 2 is gonna knock it out of the park.
After playing POE it feels like Diablo is just the casual arpg, which is fine, there are alot of people who cant/wont play more then a couple hours a day but for anyone who finds themselves bored playing D4, POE will be your game.
This system is too complex for D4. But I’m interested in how you think D4 could learn from it. If you had to distill the map system to its core elements and apply them to D4s dungeon system. How would you do it?
1. A set of truly unique bosses, not 20 reskins. 2. A set of truly unique environments, not 10 reskins. 3. Far more varied monster types. 4. Modifiers that aren't absolutely ridiculous like what's currently in D4. 5. The ability to force more mob density with higher difficulty. 6. The goal is to kill monsters and kill the boss. That's it. I think that's a good list.
I think one big drawback is Blizzards need to support console. Console games isnt really known for its complex and in depth games. It's pretty much; start game, play for an hour, log out, no hassle. The thing about not being able to search in your skill tree/Paragon is a great example of this. Blizzard gotta please two gaming communities and they really do fail and succeed at the same time. D4 is perfect for console.
I agree. I'd like to hear some specifics of how this would look in D4 if they implimented it. As a person who hasn't played much of POE endgame I gotta say, although you do a good job of breaking down the mechanics, it kind of just sounds like a lot of systems stacked on top of each other and it's hard to imagine how this would actually feel playing. I think the only concrete thing I got out of it was that there aren't all the distracting dungeon objectives, and you can customize the mechanics via a maps skill tree. I'll probably just play POE to compare myself, but seeing as you seem to be targeting new players here I though I'd give my two cents.
Great video. Best explanation of PoE's endgame, when compared to D4's, that I've seen. Blizzard fans love to say, "but, PoE has had 10 years to add and polish content. D4 is new." Sorry, I hate that argument. You can easily say that Blizzard also had 10 years of witnessing it's direct competition's ups and downs, so they could better prepare D4's release. They had the perfect opportunity to adopt many of PoE's systems. Heck, even adopting some of D3's systems. But they chose not to. And rather, release a shell of a game.
But it's time that allows for more features. I think with their time, DIablo 4 devs decided to get out a solid foundation rather than try force out a complete game where nothing is done right. D4 does have good bones. They make that argument because it's very likely the D4 devs will enhance D4 a lot over time, I don't see what's so hard to understand about this argument. Also, by your logic, are you expecting PoE 2 to have a stellar launch, and be a complete ARPG? We'll see. Hopefully it does, but I wouldn't expect that. All ARPGS and MMOs tend to improve massively over time, so it's a very reasonable argument. Also why not say that PoE could have learned more from other games to be better at launch? or to avoid some of the "downs"? You can apply this to almost any game. Also it's not really an incompetence thing, IMO, more of a game released too early, which is a corporate greed, time thing. If they fail to make D4 better, IMO, that would be a better indicator of incompetence. A lot of PoEs good systems came later, so I just don't get your double standard.
@@JunkBondTrader I agree D4 has good bones. The combat is actually fun. They have a world that is interesting...to a point. The graphics, sound, and animations are excellent as well. But what is there to play now, is just that...bones. They know there is nothing to do, nor reason to play after about level 70. And if you do decide to force yourself to play, you will be doing the exact same thing over and over again. At least in D3 you had 3 options. In D4, you have 1. Just 1. Seeing what PoE has done with it's endgame, and just how many systems is implemented, Blizzard could have easily just copied some of them. Heist and Delve would have been a great start. But no, they decided to release the bare minimum, a shell of a game. Enough to entertain until you hit about 70. Zero endgame. You might say, "well, then it's time to make alts". But Blizzard prevents us from doing that as well due to the lack of stash space (I have 24 tabs in PoE btw). it's all just inexcusable. Go play D3 until you hit the higher greater rifts. Then compare the ride to that point. You'll see that it is easily "more fun" in the ease of build diversity and how that "hunt for gear" works. It's actually exciting to get a legendary drop. The core fundamental of an arpg.
True! Also stuff like Résistances not working properly in D4 - absolutely no go. its a core mechanic. I played to level 62 in s1 but the motivation goes down quick after level 50. I would still give D4 a 7 out of 10, but from a Diablo game and the ressoureces Blizzard has i expect a 9 out 10 at least. D4 is lazy in so many aspects.
Poes combat isn't as good as d4. At least for the rogue. Poe just fells like a point and click/kill as apposed to actually feeling like you've defeated enemies like in d4. Poe is EXTREMELY clunky compared to d4. D4 just does it for me for some reason. I've tried for years to get into Poe but it just doesn't work.....
I've been going trough a few games recently; D4, Chronicon, SWTOR and even playing some user maps in Duke 3D to find something to do till Exilecon. And while I had some fun moments I eventually went back to POE. After 10 minutes I had a huge grin on my face as I was blasting trough maps having the time of my life! The game is just magical once you get hooked in! :)
funnily enough i feel like if they leaned into a D3 style (greater) rift approach then you could at least get some more quick variety and bring some arcadey speedrunning to it, but they were clearly aware of and avoiding such iterations. meanwhile PoE has had a decade to sprinkle sauce on an already very strong endgame mapping system. dont get me wrong, a map is a zone is a rift is a monolith, but hiding the fact that most ARPGs in the genre have an 'endgame system' that is running old tilesets is key to a solid one.
Pretty much. PoE has had the most time and effort to develop, but others have gone the same direction to one degree or another. It takes deliberate ignorance and avoidance of learning from others to end up with D4's 'endgame' situation. If you aren't even going to learn lessons from the last game in your IP, why are you using that IP again?
Amusing to see that people are finally realising dungeon objectives and events are just time consuming chores. This was annoyingly obvious during beta. But no, the community saw it as "content", something different to do. Screw that! Make itemization interesting, indulge a great economy and give us hordes of different monsters to slay. That is enough.
I like and respect POE greatly, but what's most off-putting is all the annoying and tedious 3rd party websites needed to play it properly. Why can't the developers just include them all in the game, especially trading. I just don't see the point of why the developers deliberately leave it out. That's just me.
What I don't like about poe is how insanely complex it is. There aren't many things you can confidently understand without googling it. And even then, there isn't always accurate information out there. I just wish that gems and some passives had much clearer explanations. Some of them seem clear, until you realize how it interacts with something else in an unexpected way. It allows you to make broken builds too
I will play D4 just to make use of my battle pass prepurchase, I don't think it will keep me in more then a week ( that's how long it took me to complete it 100% after release) Whilst in PoE, this league was the first league I have managed to beat all content of the game in the 10 years since I play it ( 3 years actively) Challenges are not my style if they don't contain something I like, like the ritual hideout, in which I did 40/40
So the atlas passives sounds like D4 paragon boards but with extra steps and effort to unlock them. I also ended up stressed after your explanation of the "glimpse" of the map and atlas mechanics. So in the end you've convinced me not to try PoE and just stick to D4 where things are simpler and straight forward. Thanks for the video.
Of course! I will mention the Atlas Passives affect "maps" which are the "dungeons" of D4, so they don't affect your character. Your character is affected by the...normal passive skill tree. If you're looking for something simple, definitely stick with D4, friend.
Started POE today, after the diablo 4 recent patch absolutely killed my build and ruined my paragon board. So far there's definitely two aspects I dont like in POE, inventory fills up after like 2 mobs packs and getting back to town with the teleports being locked behind a consumable item is extremely jarring to me. It feels like I have to stop myself every 2 minutes to go back to town, like I'm always interrupting myself. I loved D4 as a guy who works long hours and doesn't have much time to game, it felt like even if I had 15 minutes or an hour or 3 hours to play I could still do something. I'll admit POE due to the inventory and teleporter issues isnt really gripping me like d4 did, BUT I want to give it an honest try.
Huge thing: do you have a loot filter on? It is the biggest QOL for any new player. Google “Neversink Loot Filter PoE” and implement it, this might completely change your experience. As for portal scrolls, yeah, that’s a thing. You can find a gem in the game that functions as a portal scroll and it casts faster than the new D4 teleport :)
@@TalkativeTri I'm playing on ps5 so I don't think plugins would be an option for me? Unless there is a loot filter in game. In d4 I just picked up everything and salvaged or vendored anything that wasn't an upgrade. That just doesn't even remotely feel viable in POE so far
Playing PoE the first time was quite an experience. I had no prior info other than a few mentions by asmongold, and i wanted a new looter since i was getting tired of BL3. for the first 60 hours of play you can't really go an hour or 2 without interacting with an entirely new mechanic. And then you start maps and if you trained well, geared well, and don't let your ass get handed to you it's more content to interact with. truly a great game deserving of the praise it gets
Yeah POE is dope. I wish it was a little more melee friendly but boneshatter was cool. Idk when I'm coming back though. Starfield has my interest pretty hard atm.
When Diablo 4 came out, I gave it a shot... I nearly beat the campaign with the rogue, it was superrrrr easy. I just got bored. Diablo felt hallow and uninspiring. However, this caused me to get back into PoE. I haven't played PoE since 2016. A lot has changed, oh boy. I've put 100 hours into it in the last month. I can't get enough of it. D4 is retail friendly, appeals to gamers that want to put maybe 50 hours into a game and call it good. 50 hours of PoE is a splash in the bucket.
You got further then me, i didn't even finish the beta before i was bored with simple skill system simple enemy's that were quite easy and all the same and also always online lag and stutter. I thought ok its a beta so the full game will be much much more, i watched streamers play it and was disappointed there was like not much new from the the beta. I just mainly watched for the cinematics after that and some simple boss fights.
@@pilot7350 The only thing D4 has going for it is the cinematics. Yeah, the skill system is boring and enemies are WAYYY to easy. Or at least, the density of enemies isn't enough. They are way to spread out, and not enough variety. The gameplay is simplistic and banal. I got to lvl 46 before I just couldn't play it anymore. You're totally right about the always online thing - it's sooo laggy. Constant d-sync issues. look - I was not a hardcore fan of PoE before d4. But Blizzard released a game SOOO bad that I wanted to play something similar. PoE is the true successor of the diablo series. It's not even comparable. It blows Diablo out of the water on everything but cinematics. What a let down. D4 could of been so much more if they borrowed some of the fleshed out idea's from PoE.
@@sadistical5787 100%. Even D2 and D3 had well fleshed out ideas they could have used, but instead they threw it all to the side in favor of the current mess. I also played rogue, and I'm still pissed with the skill system. I hate that I'm being forced to use a basic skill I don't want to use, purely to generate resource for my core skill. Meanwhile my underwhelming ultimate (rain of arrows) sits on cooldown the majority of the time. It also doesn't help that the rogue skills just don't feel that good to me, even when geared. I like to zoom fast in ARPG's with lots of clear. Fully geared Multishot DH in D3 and juiced TS builds in PoE are my absolute favorite ways to play this genre and D4 offers nothing close to those. :(
@@Jakefkyah Brooo all the PoE i've been playing fogged my memory of that ltitle rouge detail! You're right, IT WAS SO CUMBERSOME! I hated having to mele to generate enough charge to use my core abilities. What a terrible system. I did enjoy running twisted blades and dashing thorugh enemies. But it's only just a little taste of what PoE offers. Yeahhh I agree like - When I play this genre I want to get absolutely juiced and turn into a literal buzz saw and off screen enemies. In d4 needs more mob density, charge or w/e that system is needs to disappear. But yeah d4 just feels so hollow. It's boring. Cheers m8.
@@Jakefkyah Brooo all the PoE I've been playing fogged my memory of that little rouge detail! You're right, IT WAS SO CUMBERSOME! I hated having to mele to generate enough charge to use my core abilities. What a terrible system. I did enjoy running twisted blades and dashing thorugh enemies. But it's only just a little taste of what PoE offers. Yeahhh I agree like - When I play this genre I want to get absolutely juiced and turn into a literal buzz saw and off screen enemies. d4 needs more mob density, and the charge or w/e that system is needs to disappear. But yeah d4 just feels so hollow. It's boring. Cheers m8.
Diablo is better for me since I don’t like feeling like I have to have pour so many hours just to understand a game. I only play about an hour or two every other day. People need to stop complaining and comparing and just play the game you like. If you don’t like a game, don’t play it. Simple.
maps wouldnt change the flaws in the game. it wouldnt fix the itemization, or how similar builds end up. its a bandaid after having a bear clawed your entire torso off.
thank you for making your videos as someone who has downloaded and deleted poe many of times d4 has pushed me to give it a real go and am i glad i did your videos our needed to guide people to one of the many great decisions of the genre truly appreciative of your work
I love Poe and I love Diablo. D4 hasn’t quite hit the mark but has a lot of potential, some of it enjoy. If they can shape the game and add to it over time through seasonal content, it’s possible that in a few years they could both be serious competitors to one another. Right now though Poe still has my vote.
Only thing Diablo 4 has over PoE is the visuals, which PoE2 will improve anyway, i get that Diablo caters to casuals but i started playing PoE only 2 months ago (i'm still quite bad and haven't been able to kill an Uber on my own but learning new things has been very fun and rewarding, a thing that D4 doesn't seem to offer with its simplicity) and i still wouldn't even consider playing D4 (even if it were f2p). D4 is just far too simple with its skills and the endgame offers very little from what i've seen.
They didn't even need to look at the PoE maps. They had their predecessor d2, right there with some of the best level design in gaming. you can see so many missed opportunities if you go and replay that game and see how it stacks up to d4.
Its nothing special man. I bet it was in its day. It would flop if it released now. Only nostalgia keeps it popular. Its boring potion drinking festival.
@@Jaceftp the popularity of something has absolutely nothing to do with how well designed a game is. Go play fortnite if you actually buy what youre saying here.
Revisiting POE after getting tired of the annoying and un-fun endgame in D4 at level 79 on my rogue, namely NM dungeons. This time I'm going to see endgame in POE and so far it's an incredible game, so much great design.
RIP my friend who struggled to buy D4, he even stream the game...end up missing POE mechanic People should not play POE if they love rpg games every rpg games will make them missing POE mechanic
there is just too much to learn in POE i just dont have the time and tbh i dont like trading and from what i have heard only way you can get what your after is to trade unless you gte lucky, Saying that diablo 4 end game is really bad and boring
I like every single thing about poe apart from the always constant dark and dull, gray maps. Dont get me wrong they would be great in their own regard, like the mines in act 4 are terrific and would obviously be dark. But every single map even the green ones are dark and dull. I hope POE 2 can break away from this. Abit further zoom would also be better too.
Now with the initial D4 hype gone, you can see how average D4 actually is. The MMO bullshit is by far the biggest thing holding Diablo 4 back. It feels more like early access or even a beta, devs themselves don't know what game D4 should be. Even Grim Dawn is gameplay wise miles ahead. PoE on the other hand is honestly a bit too complicated for lots of "new" players, i hope PoE 2 will fix this.
its not as big as one might think. If you use spells you don't use stuff that says melee damage etc. also its usually best to try out the game find an ability you like then check if theres a guide or build for it to start with before you go all in trying your own thing.
I just played D4 beta for an hr or 2. It's pretty broken. Couldn't bring myself to pay $109aud r D4 yet. Came across POE. Graphics, presentation, animations all seems better... Is the D4 beta vs current game like night and day ? Or is POE just better - very few hrs of both mind you..
You bring up some very good points. The biggest thing D4 has over PoE is the fact that if you have completed the story one time, you can skip it on every new character. I got so tired of doing the same story over and over again in PoE. Thats why I don't play any more. I do plan to go back when 2.0 hits.
completely wrong, it makes almost no sense to skip the campaign in d4, .... the reason why you want to skip the campaign is to avoid walking paths and quests.... but that's exactly what d4 is... So you would need a skip diablo 4 button.
Ive played a lot of path. Ive played a lot of d4 sense release. Bottom line: path is far superior in nearly every way. I hope d4 can learn from path's success but with path 2 on the horizon...i think D4's days are very limited even with improvements. Its a real shame honestly. I wanted to get absorbed into d4 the same i do with path. but there's just no meat on those bones.
I admit this makes me a little sad. This game looks AWESOME, and I want to play it so bad. I've tried 3-4 times and it just never clicked. There was just SO MUCH. It feels like if you try to learn it all you are overwhelmed but if not you end up having problems later. This last time I sincerely watched videos, read articles and even took notes for over 2 weeks and I still felt like I was just flying blind and not making any real progress. ANY thoughts or advice would be welcome.
Where did you get stuck? I'd focus on just going through the Acts and learning those base systems: the Passive Skill Tree, Skill Gems and Supports, Basic Crafting/Defenses, and the Masters. If you're having fun while going through the Acts and reach Endgame, focus on one new mechanic at a time as you begins mapping on the Atlas: look at Essences. Are they fun? How can you use them? Glance at Expedition. Is it a good time? How does it help you character? Also, use me, the ingame Global Chat, and the PoE subreddit/various Discords as resources. I've read a few comments about PoE people being toxic, but that's just some internet folk in general. The PoE community is quite welcoming and helpful to new players, especially if they really want to try out this deep, complex, and awesome game.
@@TalkativeTri thank you so much... The last time was when I got the farthest and I got to the boss right after you unlock the Scion character. I was doing my best to follow a build guide and when I got there I kept pretty much instantly dying to one phase. I guess my resistances weren't good enough? Anyway I wasn't sure how to respec to fix it or what to do so I just stopped there.
That's High Templar Dominus! He can be super tough if you don't have the offense to kill the initial mini-bosses OR the resistances to survive his lightning barrage...not to mention you may have been tripped up on the Blood Rain during his ascendent phase. When you're going through the first time, you definitely need to focus on defenses as you learn the mechanics, else they'll take you out. Brute-forcing is no fun, but PoE isn't like D4 where you can very easily go through the campaign on world tier 1/2, or even the first difficulty of Diablo 2/3. There's only one difficulty in PoE's acts and it can be PUNISHING.
@@TalkativeTri yeah I remember now it was the Blood Rain phase. I guess I'll start over and try again... Man I'm getting tired of that first part lol. Any recommendations on character choice? Should I just wait for poe 2?
@@edwardosborne3393 Start now. What kind of playstyle do you enjoy, or does that not matter? I think this person on the PoE Subreddit laid out an excellent beginner's post: www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1543juf/since_d4_s1_patch_notes_are_out_heres_a_list_of/
Diablo 4 can be finished in 2 to 4 days cost 70-130 dollars. POE to beat Maven or the top boss could take you the same time ASSUMING you have deep knowledge of the game - aka you are a veteran and it's FREE!
I can't believe they made a whole game just to promote path of exile. thats wild
D4 10/10 in 2023, thats the best joke i've ever had this year.
Yet a product is a product if a person doesn't have another person.
Ngl ur the only person i can relate to that feels like this too. I swear d4 was an advertisement to PoE its literally the same game! Thats why i swapped to poe
@@RinWasHIDE unfortunately he is kind of right, from the shitty critics point of view d4 is like 8.8/10 or something like that? bullshit paid reviews ofc
@@PatchesFlanniganis this fresh copypasta? 🔥🔥
I thank Diablo 4 for introducing me to the genre and to Path of Exile
Hi, welcome to the PoE community! You're going to love it here :)
@@TalkativeTri Thanks! 🙏
And trust me there's gonna be plenty more coming just like me, especially after Blizzard's latest patch notes 😂
The boys at GGG must be having a field day.
For me it was Diablo 3, that introduced me to PoE ✌️
@@cgamroth Me too haha
Same story for me except, Diablo 3 is how I found Path of exile haha.
I understand the natural reaction to compare the two, but Diablo was never going to win over POE's core player base anyway.
Definitely - I think they did draw in some new players though who are showing distaste in D4. I think some would LOVE PoE :)
@@TalkativeTri Absolutely. The timing of ExileCon and POE2's release is perfectly timed to take advantage of that dynamic.
I don't see why not tbh. Ok maybe not win us over, but I expected D4 to be better. I want it to be better so I have something great to play when I'm done with Poe's season. But man... As I've said like 100 times now - it's just so boring.
@@JayBigDadyCy I expected something in the ballpark of what we got. Blizzard is targeting a larger and more casual audience on average. Although D4 won't distract my attention for any length of time, I think it's a pretty good foundation to build a seasonal arpg on. Comparing it to POE at launch (minus the technical discrepancies for the time gap) is a more realistic comparison. Some would argue that D4 should be amazing in every way considering the size of the development team and budget, but that creates unrealistic expectations imo. I know I'm in the minority, but I'm of the opinion Blizzard achieved a pretty decent balance considering the enormous spectrum of audience they were aiming to please.
@kenhiett5266 I see a lot of people give Blizzard a free pass on D4's shortcomings because it's "made for casual players." For an ARPG released in 2023, it feels extremely rushed and lacks so many quality of life features that are used by casual and hardcore players alike.
D3 was definitely made for casual players, yet they still provided basic QoL features like previewing stat possibilities at the enchanter, much better inventory/stash system, map overlay.
At this point, its like ordering a big mac, it's missing a bun, and lettuce, but saying its okay because McDonalds is for casual eaters.
I think it was Ghazzy who said PoE greatest feat was to hide the grind, and I agree. You do maps not only to kill monster and get loot, you have multiple mechanics that give It a twist, as you point, but mapping is a mean to an end, as you build towards an endgame boss.
If I got credit for a boss it was always because somebody else killed it for me. I just like zooming clearing maps
Maps are the least fun thing in the world. They are more grindy than the repetitive dungeons in d4. Mapping is beyond brain cancer.
@@Dead_Goatgo faster :p
@@Dead_Goat meh i can kinda agree with you but at least you can complete a map in sub 1 minute depending on which one you do where as d4 dungeons can take ages. You also dont have to kill everything in a PoE map.
I've quit D4 because it is incomplete, for developing a game for 4-5 years if not more it's incomplete and I understand the reason behind it, $$$... After of 9 years I went back to PoE, it's a totally different game and I love it to death, I even bought the some supporters packs to support the developers - they deserver it 100%. Probably will be the last game I ever play :) Hats off to GGG, PoE it has been made by true ARPG lovers!!! Cannot wait for Poe2
Diablo 4 made me appreciate POE so much more.
Its absurd to see Diablo 4's playerbase, knowing POE's superiority over Diablo 4 is just beyond absurd.
I just hate the way POE looks its so cartoonish and the way it plays just isnt as satisfying to me as Diablo is
Its the same thing, its to hard to get in to. We dont want to spend hours reading to be able to play legitimately. Think ill wait for poe2
I've tried both, but to be honest PoE just looks really intimidating to most players. Diablo 3 made the game really accesible to anyone and I think thats what made it more popular besides it being a blizzard product.
PoE looks good but tbh its too complex/work to understand for most people who don't have much attention or time.
They could easily have implemented a map system with the game.
Imagine like an expedition into hell and you slowly start making your way through ancient tunnels, temples, ruins etc.
Would've been wild, my friend.
The fact that we have a game based on the Theme HELL and we can't go there after the main quest amazes me.
@@Tiago_Havoc facts the only good part of the game was when you enter hell and see the cutscene there, but even that got kinda shitty by the end lol
@@Tiago_Havoc There isn't even Diablo, in Diablo 4.
@@vhayne91777 hell yeah hahahaha
As a long time lover of Diablo (including D3) and other Blizzard games it's tragic to see so many of their great franchises ruined by limiting design and corporate nonsense. After thousands of hours across every Diablo title I finally gave POE a chance during Archnemesis League. I was hooked immediately. POE is everything Diablo could have been and so so so much more. After about a thousand hours, reaching end game every season, and watching just as much POE UA-cam as playing the game I can honestly say that I still learn something new and game changing every season. The learning curve for POE is totally insane and absolutely unfriendly to new players and I love it. My biggest challenge is getting my Diablo friends to come over. They just get bogged down by the learning curve. It would be great to have a noob friendly mode where you choose a pre-made classic build and the game hand holds you through selecting skills searching for items. Kind of line if a Max Roll build was just integrated into the game. That and adding some version of 3rd party tools into the base game; a few pre-made filters (auto load neversink's basic ones) & some of the trade functionality you get from Awakened Trade> I would really love to get my "9 to 5 dad gamer friends to play" because I know that they would love POE. They just need some hand holding for a few seasons. If POE wants a bigger chunk of the market they can totally add a few features to help guide new players without compromising the game. Thanks for the great content. I've been loving the "history of POE series".
Totally agree with most of your points. Thanks for the in-depth comment, and I appreciate you enjoying the current history series. So much more to come due to support of people like you!
So happy to have you in the community! Welcome, Exile! ❤
Having experienced both games, I eventually found myself gravitating back to Crucible after quickly succumbing to the monotony presented in Diablo 4 (D4). I still maintain some optimism for D4, as it holds potential to evolve into an engaging game, albeit the journey to reach that stage might span across several years.
Path of Exile (PoE), on the other hand, is a captivating experience that never ceases to amaze me, and it's heartening to witness its continual growth. Given the current momentum, I anticipate that this year's Exilecon will make a significant impact, potentially drawing in a sizeable influx of D4 players due to the rising hype around the event.
I feel it's important to add a disclaimer that my PoE journey began during the Sentinel era, which means that the game was already fairly mature when I first started. Therefore, a like-for-like comparison of the two games, based on their initial release states, is something I'm unable to provide. However, there is an undoubted consensus amongst the community about which game stands superior, an assessment I wholeheartedly agree with.
@@ChrisWhiton LMAO
Aaaahhh I miss sentinel league....
Why does this read like a ChatGPT response...? 😅
I rarely think about it, but it's kinda mindblowing that PoE is free to play. And yeah, you will have to buy tabs eventually. But you can easily run campaign (multible times with multiple characters) and dabble in early mapping for free and for as long as you want. Which is pretty huge, yet barely scratches the surface. It just shows how much depth the game has, when devs can allow themselves to give so much for free and still be in business 10 years later.
3k hour Andy here and I'm still learning a day at a time with surprising results, this Game is a treasure.
@@Basuko_Smoker same. 3.5k hours. Playing (on and off) since 2014. Still learning. And there's no end in sight. lol
As an old dude in forest encampment says: the end of learning is the beginning of death.
I’m honestly in the same boat. Almost every play session I learn something new. It’s quite cool.
I spent a total of $20 on POE for 8 years. Last year I finally bought a supporter pack to show my love. If POE became a subscription game like WoW was, I'd still pay for it. Such a massive amount of entertainment and brain puzzles.
I say Poe have 300 hours of free content. If you play SSF its like 600 hours... But end game without currency and map tabs are just to slow
The thing is, people keep saying you can't compare POE to Diablo 4, but they're usually talking about in terms of the scale of content. My problem with Diablo 4 is the content itself. The objectives in dungeon maps are just not fun. What worries me more than the actual content in the game is actually how Joe Shelley responds to player feedback. He seems to misunderstand the problems that people have. If he cannot understand what the problems are, how can he fix them?
Joe Shelly is smoking crack prior to campfire session
I totally agree. With more seasons there will be more endgame activities, but the problems currently are that those activities are boring. I dont want to go back and forth in a dungeon. I want to kill shit, kill a random boss, and next until more endgame activities are implemented in seasons.
That would be the question in general: Who at Blizzard has an idea about their own game? Every time i hear someone from Blizzard talk, i dont have the impression they know the game. Not even mentioning that video from the level designers who had no idea how to play their game.
I started PoE a few days ago, i wont come back soon to D4. I dont see how their devs can fix the problems. I have not much hope the devs are good enough. Its not that it would be impossible to make a good game out of D4, but only with the right people.
Sad truth is a lot
Of us Poe players wanted d4 to stand up to Poe and possibly even poe2 then the game came out and I’m like oh this is d3 with worse item levels and gear rolling mechanics
You do a good job of breaking down each league mechanic, you should go over all of them so that people like myself who have been playing for 10 years can finally understand the stuff I’m clicking lmao . Good channel, keep the POE coming
Oh, hells yes! That's an upcoming video: Much shorter than my history ones.
Yeah I've been playing almost since it came out and I have no idea how some of the content works. This is mainly because they keep changing things and I can't keep up. Like Horticrafting now seems to be unalterable, where it used to be random.
They shouldn't have made nightmare dungeons at all. They already had story events, story and pinnacle bosses that they could've turned into a progressional floor based system like the Nioh 2 underworld.
100 floors. Every 5 floors you get a pinnacle boss and can either decide to leave with the pinnacle boss reward or keep going. If you die, you lose everything. You get all loot after defeating the pinnacle boss (Can also use world bosses).
If they wanted nmds, they should've just left the dungeons the same and increased difficulty in harder modes like in Lost Ark. Maps in PoE, while better than nmds aren't that great either imo. There's too many affixes causing maps you can't run on your build too. Reflect for example shouldn't be a passive, direct reflect but maybe occasionally cause AoE's with reflected damage that can be dodged.
D4 is literally doing free marketing for Poe at this point. Next ExileCon and eventual League will probably break records of viewership/players respectively
GGG is a gaming company. Blizzard has become a factory, producing soulless product they call game.
they should have done a knockoff of PoE's delve, where you progress down an infinitely scaling Hell.
A great idea! I'm hoping GGG does another Delve-like system in the Beyond realm. That'd be wicked.
As you delve deeper, the layers of hell become harder, darker, more intense. You go from a feeling of burning to intense searing, from fear to outright panic, from dim light to flames that consume any trace of it. You delve deeper, ever deeper, into the darkening horrors of bedeviled wastelands..... but then you see it. Some light..... what is this? You bear closer to it; cautiously and with trepidation. The area become more lit, more colorful..... then you see them.... unicorns. Your blood curls, the hairs on your neck stand up then shrivel...... you realize one thing too late. You’re fucked.
@@TalkativeTriimagine that, HOOOLY YOU'RE A GENIUS
delete this comment don't give blizzard the freebie genius. red delve ftw
@@TalkativeTri some were thinking instead of doing the poe campaign over and over again there could just be an endless delve instead of the campaign, id love that tbh
The guy shows Atlas Skill Tree contained mechanics of ALL previous leagues and says "it's quite understandable and intuitive"
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I've played PoE more than 7 years and love this game, but his phrase is ridiculous
IF you take it slow and read, I won’t back down :D
Doing the lord’s work here, evangelizing the righteous Path
We play Path of Exile in His holy name.
As someone with 10k+ hours in PoE, I still think there's some things they can learn from Diablo, like the impactful combat, PoE is a bit of a lightshow with no actual weight behind the combat. PoE2 looks to rectify this.
100% this, just look at the gameplay in this video. He just runs around and completely destroy everything on the screen in a blink of an eye. That is not that fun either tbh. (Not saying D4 is the better game. I completely agree on most other stuffs).
as a guy who is a diablo fan who played EVERY diablo game , as well as a POE fan who plaed every league since the leages started in POE thats the only comment that i actually respected through out this section , including the video itself which with all do respect i found it as a POE fan boy vibe , i liked your comment because it was reasonable and fan boy free
As someone who played both (poe since 2014 in and out of leagues), i can understand where you come from. BUT the path towards being able to completely obliterate mobs in an instant is the reward in of itself. In d4 you can never have this because it all scales with you. In POE once you get a build essential item with good rolls, you can completely go from yellow maps to red maps for example. It is extremely satisfying. I can never tire of it because i personally never got to that point for a whole other reasons.
In d4 i got to lvl 60ish twice and stopped for good because i never got rewarded for anything.
In d4 its kinda like: "wow i got an item that gives me 1% more vulnerable dmg... ok". Then you lvlup and it doesnt really matter anymore. That doesnt happen in POE. And i think its ONE of the most relevant differences between the two. And POE gets ahead in that and in almost every other mechanic
The best 70$ I saved those past few years concerning gaming.
What a bullet I dodged lol
It's quite mind boggling given the team size, budget, and countless examples Blizz has from other ARPGs (even beside PoE) what they've come up with for both NM dungeons and the season 1 mechanic. That game has a lonnng road ahead of it to become engaging and for now I have lost the belief that the designers at Blizz have the genre knowledge to effect that change.
Last epoch demonstrated how they can take the lessons learned from poe, and make it their own.
They have and endgame system akin to poes maps, but it's much simpler. Their crafting is also simpler, but still fun and engaging.
I defo recommend Last Epoch to anyone who is daunted by Poe's complexity, but hates d4s shallow systems.
@@gaborfabian3967 absolutely. It's kinda like the blizz Devs have some weird pride thing where they can't take good ideas from other games or they don't actually play and know the ARPG genre much.
They felt the need to reinvent a bunch of stuff that no one wanted reinvented (the way resists and resist stats work is a great example) instead. Just...puzzling.
@@Dommomos I definitely feel like it's an ego thing. The way they address feedback and the way they talk about content and the game in general makes me feel like they have a hard time speaking plainly/honestly or as if someone is holding them on a leash and preventing them from being fully open about anything.
@@ToyokaX yeah everything public has to go through their PR team for sure.
This team has come quite a way compared to D3 in both game design and response to feedback so good on them, but it's still child's play compared to other genre offerings. When we contrast it to GGG - who are now quite a lot bigger themselves - it's like night and day.
@@Dommomos Indeed. It's sort of sad how sluggish Blizzard has become in their response to community feedback, and in their decision-making in general. I suppose it makes sense why most of the old guard left to make new companies with a smaller overhead and no suits looming over their every move. Blizzard is a perfect example of a company suffering from success that made it was it is today.
I switched 10 days ago. Now being an experienced PoE player with lvl 87 witch I can only say one thing: each nook and every nook and cranny of PoE has more depth than entirety of D4. So go play PoE D4 players, you will love it.
"experienced" is a huge word for 10 days playtime and one lvl 87 character ;P
What a nice POE advertisement :)
Keep up the amazing work I love the poe history series you do
Of course, thanks for the kind words :)
D4 is the biggest advertisement to poe I suddenly encountering a lot of new players in poe community in reddit youtube and twitch lol
One of the first arguments is weird.
Reality: we play the same map over and over in the endgame. We block like 90% of the mechanics to spawn the ones we care about, and do the same mechanic over and over again.
Some people play that way and it works well. I do a variety of maps and frequently swap between mechanics based on time in the league and what I’m searching for. You can do that, you can really sculpt it however you want.
That’s part of what makes it great though. You can play pretty much exactly what you want.
i'm new to poe (thank you d4) and your build looks like d2's lightning fury ama. what's the name of the skill you're using?
Frost Blades! The class I’m using is the Shadow with the Trickster Ascendancy. There are a few builds of this up on YT, but I kinda looked at them all, used ideas from poeninja.com and made it my own.
Each tier does not offer better loot than the previous necessarily, there are plateaus with tier 70 being the ceiling and subsequent tiers being the same.
My guess is, Diablo 4 lead management people have no clue about the ARPG genre and the game was developed in way shorter period of time, then most tend to think. The game was spit out in like 3 years, while most of the time was spent on creating the graphics and feel of combat. The goal with the systems was to create a casual friendly and adictive combat and pickup loot to get stronger cicle. And that's pretty much it. The bar wasn't set any much higher for the release of the game. Like modern COD games. ARPG is a primarely PC game genre, yet almost every lead dev plays it on console with a controller, that says enough for me. I think the lead tech or gameplay guy does some great stuff and his talks are good too, hope there are more people on the team, who know what they are doing and where they are heading with the game.
Atlas passive tree was the best thing they ever introduced.
The atlas passive tree is the main reason a friend of mine kept playing the entire Crucible league so far. They hadn't played PoE for a couple years, and the atlas passive tree allowed them to one by one learn all the newly added mechanics. They specialized in each mechanic over the course of the league, going entirely by their own pace. I think that's really crucial (and also mentioned in the video), to take things in PoE one at a time to avoid the feeling of getting overwhelmed. The atlas passive tree was truly the best ever addition to achieve exactly that: Go step by step, learn mechanics one by one. Then pick your favorite(s) and have a blast playing the game (or keep rotating mechanics, whatever one prefers - it's such a great system really).
D4 is one of the Acts in POE before you get to end game
LMAO.
so true !
the arakaali fight is about what I'd put D4 boss fights near at best, but bosses have always been goofy in diablo. goofy ahh andy
As a Diablo fan , I'm sad to say I agree. The biggest salt in the wound here is the amount of microtransactions in a game I already spent $100 on for the upgraded version.
The only big negative to me in POE is no crossplay/crossprogression.
Funny that I'm now going to POE as I was ready to play D4 for years.
atlast tree is pretty chill, even i can build there on my own and everyone can find what they enjoy and fit their build its amazing since they added it
cant hold my self... i need new league sooo badly
Should be exactly a month out! :D
I like POE but the crafting is to complex imho, I like farming the maps, but in the end I felt I could not loot anything from monsters and equip directly it without having to spend gazillions chaos or devines.
I'm a casual, my builds never cost more than a couple hundred chaos (easy enough to get with the chaos recipe) and although I have never killed an Uber boss I run T16's no problem and I have a ton of fun getting to the point where I can kill some of the tougher (non-uber) bosses. I still don't know much about crafting except for basic stuff but some day lol. Hope you give it another chance!
you can easily pick up a build like rf, pick up items off the ground and use crafting bench + vendor recipes to get to yellow maps. If you are talking about killing uber maven with items you pick up from the ground, that's not meant to be. It's called endgame for a reason, not everyone is meant to get 100%. If you're casually playing with no build and no crafting/trading then you are not meant to do these extreme challenges that are supposed to be designed for the "one percenters" of path of exile.
Great vid. I honestly think a lot of people who have never played PoE or saw it as a bit daunting (PoE has a reputation like Dark Souls does for good reason) probably are playing D4 and are bored af. PoE is my second most played game of all time behind WoW, of which I haven't played in 5 years (HC raider back in the day. Something like 500 days played....). And it's my second most played for good reason. I could talk about the depth, the end game, the crazy amount of different gear and choices, build etc... But at the end of the day i just love getting a build to a point where i can farm and sell the stuff i farm to make tweaks to eek out a better and better build over time. I almost always feel like I'm striving towards a goal in PoE and that's what D4 is missing dearly. There aren't a lot of choices for anything. The dungeons are samey and no one likes the objectives in the dungeons. Plus monster density is lacking as well. I won't get into much more about D4 as i could go on for paragraphs. But if you're reading this and you've never given PoE a try, I urge you with all force to jump on in. It's an amazing, amazing game.
Those people eventually, if they Keep playing arpg's, Will realise that the only way to have a great endgame is to have a world full of challanges and mechanics that you get to interact, which I only found satisfying to do in PoE surprisingly enough lol
Its not like dark souls...dark souls takes practice, not many hours of reading/copying builds.
i wanted to thank you for the video.
since i'm new to poe i watched a whole bunch of video's for beginners and i have to say that your video -- altho it wasn't aimed to be a "beginners guide" video -- told me more about the endgame than soooo many other videos. your way of explaining is simple but complex enough to include important aspects.
i have the feeling that many veteran can't see clearly if they try to teach stuff about poe. things which are obvious for them aren't for us beginners and they just gloss over it.
what i noticed too is that they get stuck explaining a mechanic in detail but fail to mention what that mechanic is actually for and why its important.
for example i love ziz and i love how much effort he puts into his videos but honestly as a beginner his videos are just bad to really understand whats going on. mostly theory only without any practical example. he explains things by trying to use as little words as possible and uses other unknown words and concepts to explain an unknown mechanics. its like explaining something with the same word: "what is love? love is when you love someone." sure he doesn't use the same word but another words which is also now known to a beginner so the result is the same.
here is another example. i wanted to know what maps are and how the map device works. well... no one started out by explaining, in low resolution, abstract and trying to include the essence of what maps, atlas and the map device is for. it could be so simple...
"if you finish the campange there are no left areas/regions for you to explore and since the world is not scaling (the mobs stay at their level) one needs content to go further, level up, find new challenges, new encounters and loot. here comes the map device into the game. the map device can create portals to a level/instance. there are different kind of mechanics in the game which let you create special levels/instances. the most common one are maps. we are able to customize the maps to our liking via the atlas. all the different mechanics and masters we got to know a little bit by leveling up can be skilled into to have greater chances to see those mechanics in our maps again and progress further"
maybe you have the time and motivation to make a guide for beginners since you are so good at it :)
Thanks for sharing your experience, new exile! I'm working on this RIGHT NOW and know it'll be a huge help to many. Stay tuned and welcome to Wraeclast :)
The feeling you're describing about difficulty explaining things at times is referred to (apparently only since 1989 though?? ty wikipedia) as the curse of knowledge. It can be very difficult to explain new and complex topics to a complete beginner if you're something of an expert, and a similar problem to that which I personally worry about sometimes is that what might be useful and thorough explanation to someone *brand new* to the game might feel condescending to someone who has played for maybe 50-100 hours and is looking for a bit more advanced detail.
Agreed that @TalkativeTri does a good job with this. It's difficult!
@@ThomasWinget well, sure its difficult to explain something if one doesn't think it through. i don't think its that hard. for example i saw no one using visualizations for explaining something. not that they had to but it comes in handy when talking about a complex topic to break it down into little things.
i dont think that people worry about people feeling condescending but there is a point. most guides and videos are from veterans for veterans. they use language or concept which are known to them or use bad wording but an experienced player just corrects the word in their own mind.
i just watched 3 videos about timeless jewels. none of them explained it structured, complete and in easy terms. the explanations where all over the place. The Timeless Jewels have their Jewel name (I) (i think there are 5),
they have a number (II)
then they have another name 'NAME OF X) (III)
and a third name 'BY X' (IV).
There are thee kinds of skill three points which can be transformed:
a) normal smallest skill point
b) bigger skill point 'nodable' and
c) the biggest skill point 'keystone'.
Ziz for example said "the number says what the small nodes do"... well thats wrong the number says what a and b does. just because of this i had to search and figure it out by myself because i wanted to focus on transforming a nodable. this knowledge could have easily been shared by stating correctly and completely what is being effected. then he says "what the name does is that it changes the keystone" WAIT we have three names here I II I and IV what name are you referring to? Sure i later found out that name I and name IV doesn't really matter -- or does it? i bet is has some meaning but its not explained. Its very important if one has so many variables explaining them each by each and how they correlate to other variables. if one just ignores variables it's important too to articulate that one is ignoring them and why. Its not that hard...
i never had the situation that the material i try to learn is that bad structured and i taught myself a bunch of things i had no clue of. i don't try to blame the teacher but honestly i try my best and i'm spending so much time and effort the get this knowledge and learn. the explainations are so lacking that i found myself in the situation to write a whole forum post/thread just to clear things up and fill the gaps the video left me with. by doing this i'll spend even more time. i do this but i cba to do this every time. 8 of 10 answers are anyways just useless. the result is that in so many areas i just gave up like the syndicate.
if a veteran is making these video for experienced poe players, thats fine for me but it seems that people like ziz really care to help and guide new players but don't really notice that they could be doing a better job.
one other thing -- which one can see in all different branches of sharing knowledge -- is that one tells you what to do but doesn't care to explain why. gift someone a fish or teach someone to fish bla bla bla.
@@TalkativeTri thank you i really appreciate it. most people are usually put off when seeing a wall of text. taking the time to read it and care about it is nice specially if one doesn't use the best form of english^^ sorry its not my first language -- as you probably noticed :D -- but i hope my points got through :)
Even Last Epoch has a better end game system, btw not many D4's players will move to poe, maybe they will take a look but most will run away scared from the complexity.
D4 atm is an empty game, and isn't bad, cuz it can be filled in with great contents.
Btw, great video, I'm slowly returning to poe after 2 year not playing it :)
Not to mention those league mechanics that are separate games entirely... Heist, delve...😂
Right, right :)
POE is POE
D4 is Blizzard, 90% of the player base never played POE.
They should do a hell maps system where we open up portals to different parts of hell to do hell raids or something, change nm dungeons to be mostly for farming aspects, maybe guaranteed aspect drops with a wider range of rolls? Itd be nice to know after every nm dungeon i will get a certain aspect, then all you're hoping for is a good roll.
Don't forget you can also open maps in act 7, Chamber of Sins. :3
Blizz should have based the mapping system in D4 on what it was in D3 : random to the point you go into a specific cave in the world once, it might not be there next time youre in that zone, if it is guess what, the layout is different . . . throw in rare mobs . . . with rare items . . .
Kill monsters to get the boss to spawn was in D3 ( before POE ), I cant speak for earlier versions of Diablo, and thats something I agree with here . .
I might disagree 100% with you on some subjects, but I really appreciate the positive tone and outlook of your videos. It seems everyone is a doomer nowadays, its cool to listen to someone talk about a subject they actually enjoy and are not shy to show it
Hey fellow exile, completely appreciate that.
GGG is basically Blizzard North 2.0. Smaller team going against top dogs. The difference is that GGG isnt controlled by a corporate overlord like Blizzard north and current Blizzard is.
Idk why you even bring up harvest. It is absolutely worthless to the casuals and beginners in it's current state.
Why not showing some of the awsome builds we can make here instead? Try to do that in d4!
Or the monster density in unjuiced, little & high investment maps.
D4 endgame seem to be boring for most people and dungeons are pretty empty
I was keeping it super simple! Future videos will do more :)
As a PoE player thats been taking a break for a little over a year now, D4 was the half chub kick start I needed to jump back in.
Kind of ironic don't you think ? Most of blizzard's biggest IPs all came from copying other games then refining them and polishing them.
Warcraft = command and conquer, wow = Neverwinter, overwatch = team fortress, hearthstone = magic the gathering etc etc.
In fact thanks to David Brevik and Co a Diablo might be the only truly original genre they started!
The biggest Problem with Diablo4 is the fact that it is a product of greed. Pure greed by the publishers. Diablo 4 is AT LEAST 2 years away from being even remotely close to something that one could call a finished product. There is so much downgrade going from D3 to D4 that it makes me truly wonder what Blizzard even anticipated how the launch would play out.
The balance is all over the place.
The gameplay loop is horribly boring.
Helltides are a good concept implemented badly.
World Bosses are just a big Fail.
All the time we're dismounting to climb up a ledge, slide down some crap or jump over a river is just forces elongation of playtime.
There is no REAL reason to continue playing the game after you've gotten to level 70-80ish.
There's no grind for the best gems.
There's no grind to actually level up anything.
The crafting system is just laughable.
We still drop white and blue loot that literally SERVES NO FUCKING PURPOSE, it's "gold" that takes up a shitton of inventory.
Runes and their level ups are a good concept that, once again, has been implemented ridiculously.
I'll be back in a year - Season5 or so and hopefully things might have meaningful improved by then. Sad truth is that this will be around the time that Path of Exile 2 releases so there's not a shadow of a doubt in my mind that D4 is going to lose that battle (even whilst im kind of expecting a big part of the PoE1 playerbase to be disliking PoE2).
Are you going to do videos about the systems POE could steal from D4?
Cosmetics, man! They do it right.
The dungeons are so god damn thoughtlessly boring.
Its like they put absolutely 0 time into the dungeons.
No unique mechanics, no unique vistas, no flow, and the same 4 or 5 cookie cutter objectives on repeat.
They spent all this time working on nothing but assets and open world design, which still struggles as an open world.
I really dont get why Diablo 4 has no procedural generation in this game. Theres 135+ dungeons but theres like 6-7 different layouts and NOTHING else. I cant imagine it took blizzard 10 years to take 50 steps backwards.
Played both POE and Diablo 4 and it's true the endgame in POE is much better. Though everything else is better in DIablo 4; graphics, UI, ease and also complexity of skills, character customization, snappy controls, excellent voice acting and story/lore. The thing is, POE has been changing a lot since it has started to be better and aside from POE 2 coming out, I don't see them do anything about the clunky UI and clunky character controls. Diablo 4 in the other hand would easily add more monsters, bosses, maps, and dungeon, and dungeon mechanics (remember how it was on the beta compared to now - huge improvement).
I understand that some poeple are hardcore POE cultists but let's give credit when it's due, Diablo is slightly better and has the potential to be so much more greater, and I'm sure POE 2 is gonna knock it out of the park.
The Diablo 4 beta was certainly better, game is broken after the recent patch
my biggest diffrent is dmg numbers vs no numbers feels kinda weird
Are you pro or con numbers? Personally, I hate them lmao.
@@TalkativeTri pro numbers cauz im used to it but i will test out poe gameplay looks much better even without numbers 👌
I have thousands of hours in Poe and I love it but “don’t be scared Poe is intuitive” LOL no it’s not
After playing POE it feels like Diablo is just the casual arpg, which is fine, there are alot of people who cant/wont play more then a couple hours a day but for anyone who finds themselves bored playing D4, POE will be your game.
This system is too complex for D4. But I’m interested in how you think D4 could learn from it. If you had to distill the map system to its core elements and apply them to D4s dungeon system. How would you do it?
1. A set of truly unique bosses, not 20 reskins.
2. A set of truly unique environments, not 10 reskins.
3. Far more varied monster types.
4. Modifiers that aren't absolutely ridiculous like what's currently in D4.
5. The ability to force more mob density with higher difficulty.
6. The goal is to kill monsters and kill the boss. That's it.
I think that's a good list.
I think one big drawback is Blizzards need to support console. Console games isnt really known for its complex and in depth games. It's pretty much; start game, play for an hour, log out, no hassle.
The thing about not being able to search in your skill tree/Paragon is a great example of this.
Blizzard gotta please two gaming communities and they really do fail and succeed at the same time.
D4 is perfect for console.
I agree. I'd like to hear some specifics of how this would look in D4 if they implimented it. As a person who hasn't played much of POE endgame I gotta say, although you do a good job of breaking down the mechanics, it kind of just sounds like a lot of systems stacked on top of each other and it's hard to imagine how this would actually feel playing. I think the only concrete thing I got out of it was that there aren't all the distracting dungeon objectives, and you can customize the mechanics via a maps skill tree.
I'll probably just play POE to compare myself, but seeing as you seem to be targeting new players here I though I'd give my two cents.
Great video. Best explanation of PoE's endgame, when compared to D4's, that I've seen. Blizzard fans love to say, "but, PoE has had 10 years to add and polish content. D4 is new." Sorry, I hate that argument. You can easily say that Blizzard also had 10 years of witnessing it's direct competition's ups and downs, so they could better prepare D4's release. They had the perfect opportunity to adopt many of PoE's systems. Heck, even adopting some of D3's systems. But they chose not to. And rather, release a shell of a game.
But it's time that allows for more features. I think with their time, DIablo 4 devs decided to get out a solid foundation rather than try force out a complete game where nothing is done right. D4 does have good bones. They make that argument because it's very likely the D4 devs will enhance D4 a lot over time, I don't see what's so hard to understand about this argument. Also, by your logic, are you expecting PoE 2 to have a stellar launch, and be a complete ARPG? We'll see. Hopefully it does, but I wouldn't expect that.
All ARPGS and MMOs tend to improve massively over time, so it's a very reasonable argument. Also why not say that PoE could have learned more from other games to be better at launch? or to avoid some of the "downs"? You can apply this to almost any game. Also it's not really an incompetence thing, IMO, more of a game released too early, which is a corporate greed, time thing. If they fail to make D4 better, IMO, that would be a better indicator of incompetence. A lot of PoEs good systems came later, so I just don't get your double standard.
@@JunkBondTrader I agree D4 has good bones. The combat is actually fun. They have a world that is interesting...to a point. The graphics, sound, and animations are excellent as well. But what is there to play now, is just that...bones. They know there is nothing to do, nor reason to play after about level 70. And if you do decide to force yourself to play, you will be doing the exact same thing over and over again. At least in D3 you had 3 options. In D4, you have 1. Just 1. Seeing what PoE has done with it's endgame, and just how many systems is implemented, Blizzard could have easily just copied some of them. Heist and Delve would have been a great start. But no, they decided to release the bare minimum, a shell of a game. Enough to entertain until you hit about 70. Zero endgame. You might say, "well, then it's time to make alts". But Blizzard prevents us from doing that as well due to the lack of stash space (I have 24 tabs in PoE btw). it's all just inexcusable. Go play D3 until you hit the higher greater rifts. Then compare the ride to that point. You'll see that it is easily "more fun" in the ease of build diversity and how that "hunt for gear" works. It's actually exciting to get a legendary drop. The core fundamental of an arpg.
True! Also stuff like Résistances not working properly in D4 - absolutely no go. its a core mechanic. I played to level 62 in s1 but the motivation goes down quick after level 50. I would still give D4 a 7 out of 10, but from a Diablo game and the ressoureces Blizzard has i expect a 9 out 10 at least. D4 is lazy in so many aspects.
Poes combat isn't as good as d4. At least for the rogue. Poe just fells like a point and click/kill as apposed to actually feeling like you've defeated enemies like in d4. Poe is EXTREMELY clunky compared to d4. D4 just does it for me for some reason. I've tried for years to get into Poe but it just doesn't work.....
I've been going trough a few games recently; D4, Chronicon, SWTOR and even playing some user maps in Duke 3D to find something to do till Exilecon. And while I had some fun moments I eventually went back to POE.
After 10 minutes I had a huge grin on my face as I was blasting trough maps having the time of my life! The game is just magical once you get hooked in! :)
Hell yeah!
How much content is behind a paywall? I'm ok with paying, I would just like to know what it costs to experience all the things in this video.
Nothing. I would suggest spending $20 on Stash Tabs though for pure QOL purposes. You get a lot of items in POE!!
@@TalkativeTri excellent!! Thank you for the info.
funnily enough i feel like if they leaned into a D3 style (greater) rift approach then you could at least get some more quick variety and bring some arcadey speedrunning to it, but they were clearly aware of and avoiding such iterations. meanwhile PoE has had a decade to sprinkle sauce on an already very strong endgame mapping system. dont get me wrong, a map is a zone is a rift is a monolith, but hiding the fact that most ARPGs in the genre have an 'endgame system' that is running old tilesets is key to a solid one.
Pretty much. PoE has had the most time and effort to develop, but others have gone the same direction to one degree or another. It takes deliberate ignorance and avoidance of learning from others to end up with D4's 'endgame' situation. If you aren't even going to learn lessons from the last game in your IP, why are you using that IP again?
The worst diablo 4 experience other than boring endgame is that the game have to freeze u so u die which is super frustrating
Hardcore deaths due to server crashes? Poor Quin69.
@@TalkativeTri ikrrr ;(
You did it. I’m starting up the league right now… goodbye D4. Love your content. Love your delivery. Keep it up my man.
That's amazing to hear! I hope you enjoy the game.
D4 1.1 patch notes are like Blizzard took a look at 3.19 and said hold my beer
Amusing to see that people are finally realising dungeon objectives and events are just time consuming chores. This was annoyingly obvious during beta. But no, the community saw it as "content", something different to do. Screw that! Make itemization interesting, indulge a great economy and give us hordes of different monsters to slay. That is enough.
I like and respect POE greatly, but what's most off-putting is all the annoying and tedious 3rd party websites needed to play it properly. Why can't the developers just include them all in the game, especially trading. I just don't see the point of why the developers deliberately leave it out. That's just me.
Im trying to play PoE but its kind of overwhelming. Is it possible to play solo because i dont enjoy trading at all.
What I don't like about poe is how insanely complex it is. There aren't many things you can confidently understand without googling it. And even then, there isn't always accurate information out there. I just wish that gems and some passives had much clearer explanations. Some of them seem clear, until you realize how it interacts with something else in an unexpected way. It allows you to make broken builds too
True. They’ve done better with gems over the years, but remnants do remain.
I honestly prefer D2R to D4 right now. I'm not someone who grew up on Diablo either, I only played D2 for the first time last year.
I will play D4 just to make use of my battle pass prepurchase, I don't think it will keep me in more then a week ( that's how long it took me to complete it 100% after release)
Whilst in PoE, this league was the first league I have managed to beat all content of the game in the 10 years since I play it ( 3 years actively)
Challenges are not my style if they don't contain something I like, like the ritual hideout, in which I did 40/40
So the atlas passives sounds like D4 paragon boards but with extra steps and effort to unlock them. I also ended up stressed after your explanation of the "glimpse" of the map and atlas mechanics. So in the end you've convinced me not to try PoE and just stick to D4 where things are simpler and straight forward. Thanks for the video.
Of course! I will mention the Atlas Passives affect "maps" which are the "dungeons" of D4, so they don't affect your character. Your character is affected by the...normal passive skill tree. If you're looking for something simple, definitely stick with D4, friend.
Started POE today, after the diablo 4 recent patch absolutely killed my build and ruined my paragon board.
So far there's definitely two aspects I dont like in POE, inventory fills up after like 2 mobs packs and getting back to town with the teleports being locked behind a consumable item is extremely jarring to me. It feels like I have to stop myself every 2 minutes to go back to town, like I'm always interrupting myself.
I loved D4 as a guy who works long hours and doesn't have much time to game, it felt like even if I had 15 minutes or an hour or 3 hours to play I could still do something.
I'll admit POE due to the inventory and teleporter issues isnt really gripping me like d4 did, BUT I want to give it an honest try.
Huge thing: do you have a loot filter on? It is the biggest QOL for any new player. Google “Neversink Loot Filter PoE” and implement it, this might completely change your experience.
As for portal scrolls, yeah, that’s a thing. You can find a gem in the game that functions as a portal scroll and it casts faster than the new D4 teleport :)
@@TalkativeTri I'm playing on ps5 so I don't think plugins would be an option for me? Unless there is a loot filter in game.
In d4 I just picked up everything and salvaged or vendored anything that wasn't an upgrade. That just doesn't even remotely feel viable in POE so far
You can on console! You can configure it on your PoE account. Instructions and loot filter builder here: filterblade.xyz/
@@TalkativeTri I'll have a look, thank you!
Of course, I think it'll really help.
Playing PoE the first time was quite an experience. I had no prior info other than a few mentions by asmongold, and i wanted a new looter since i was getting tired of BL3. for the first 60 hours of play you can't really go an hour or 2 without interacting with an entirely new mechanic. And then you start maps and if you trained well, geared well, and don't let your ass get handed to you it's more content to interact with. truly a great game deserving of the praise it gets
Yeah POE is dope. I wish it was a little more melee friendly but boneshatter was cool. Idk when I'm coming back though. Starfield has my interest pretty hard atm.
When Diablo 4 came out, I gave it a shot... I nearly beat the campaign with the rogue, it was superrrrr easy. I just got bored. Diablo felt hallow and uninspiring.
However, this caused me to get back into PoE. I haven't played PoE since 2016. A lot has changed, oh boy. I've put 100 hours into it in the last month. I can't get enough of it.
D4 is retail friendly, appeals to gamers that want to put maybe 50 hours into a game and call it good. 50 hours of PoE is a splash in the bucket.
You got further then me, i didn't even finish the beta before i was bored with simple skill system simple enemy's that were quite easy and all the same and also always online lag and stutter. I thought ok its a beta so the full game will be much much more, i watched streamers play it and was disappointed there was like not much new from the the beta. I just mainly watched for the cinematics after that and some simple boss fights.
@@pilot7350 The only thing D4 has going for it is the cinematics.
Yeah, the skill system is boring and enemies are WAYYY to easy. Or at least, the density of enemies isn't enough. They are way to spread out, and not enough variety. The gameplay is simplistic and banal. I got to lvl 46 before I just couldn't play it anymore.
You're totally right about the always online thing - it's sooo laggy. Constant d-sync issues.
look - I was not a hardcore fan of PoE before d4. But Blizzard released a game SOOO bad that I wanted to play something similar.
PoE is the true successor of the diablo series. It's not even comparable. It blows Diablo out of the water on everything but cinematics.
What a let down. D4 could of been so much more if they borrowed some of the fleshed out idea's from PoE.
@@sadistical5787 100%. Even D2 and D3 had well fleshed out ideas they could have used, but instead they threw it all to the side in favor of the current mess. I also played rogue, and I'm still pissed with the skill system. I hate that I'm being forced to use a basic skill I don't want to use, purely to generate resource for my core skill. Meanwhile my underwhelming ultimate (rain of arrows) sits on cooldown the majority of the time. It also doesn't help that the rogue skills just don't feel that good to me, even when geared. I like to zoom fast in ARPG's with lots of clear. Fully geared Multishot DH in D3 and juiced TS builds in PoE are my absolute favorite ways to play this genre and D4 offers nothing close to those. :(
@@Jakefkyah Brooo all the PoE i've been playing fogged my memory of that ltitle rouge detail! You're right, IT WAS SO CUMBERSOME! I hated having to mele to generate enough charge to use my core abilities. What a terrible system. I did enjoy running twisted blades and dashing thorugh enemies. But it's only just a little taste of what PoE offers.
Yeahhh I agree like - When I play this genre I want to get absolutely juiced and turn into a literal buzz saw and off screen enemies. In d4 needs more mob density, charge or w/e that system is needs to disappear.
But yeah d4 just feels so hollow. It's boring.
Cheers m8.
@@Jakefkyah Brooo all the PoE I've been playing fogged my memory of that little rouge detail! You're right, IT WAS SO CUMBERSOME! I hated having to mele to generate enough charge to use my core abilities. What a terrible system. I did enjoy running twisted blades and dashing thorugh enemies. But it's only just a little taste of what PoE offers.
Yeahhh I agree like - When I play this genre I want to get absolutely juiced and turn into a literal buzz saw and off screen enemies. d4 needs more mob density, and the charge or w/e that system is needs to disappear.
But yeah d4 just feels so hollow. It's boring.
Cheers m8.
Diablo is better for me since I don’t like feeling like I have to have pour so many hours just to understand a game. I only play about an hour or two every other day. People need to stop complaining and comparing and just play the game you like. If you don’t like a game, don’t play it. Simple.
I’m in agreement-just showing some people an alternative. Play what you enjoy, 100%.
Still can't believe this game is free. I literally just buy random shit so I can feel ok about playing it.
maps wouldnt change the flaws in the game. it wouldnt fix the itemization, or how similar builds end up. its a bandaid after having a bear clawed your entire torso off.
This is true.
Left Diablo 4 due to being content starved switched to POE and it is exactly what I'm looking for!
Blizzard used to copied others system and made them better. I don't know why they didn't copy the map system.
thank you for making your videos as someone who has downloaded and deleted poe many of times d4 has pushed me to give it a real go and am i glad i did your videos our needed to guide people to one of the many great decisions of the genre truly appreciative of your work
I love Poe and I love Diablo. D4 hasn’t quite hit the mark but has a lot of potential, some of it enjoy. If they can shape the game and add to it over time through seasonal content, it’s possible that in a few years they could both be serious competitors to one another. Right now though Poe still has my vote.
Only thing Diablo 4 has over PoE is the visuals, which PoE2 will improve anyway, i get that Diablo caters to casuals but i started playing PoE only 2 months ago (i'm still quite bad and haven't been able to kill an Uber on my own but learning new things has been very fun and rewarding, a thing that D4 doesn't seem to offer with its simplicity) and i still wouldn't even consider playing D4 (even if it were f2p).
D4 is just far too simple with its skills and the endgame offers very little from what i've seen.
They didn't even need to look at the PoE maps. They had their predecessor d2, right there with some of the best level design in gaming. you can see so many missed opportunities if you go and replay that game and see how it stacks up to d4.
Its nothing special man. I bet it was in its day. It would flop if it released now. Only nostalgia keeps it popular. Its boring potion drinking festival.
@@Jaceftp the popularity of something has absolutely nothing to do with how well designed a game is. Go play fortnite if you actually buy what youre saying here.
I have 8000 h in poe and still long for next League and u have 50 ish house in d4 and cant be botherd to even start a s1 character
Revisiting POE after getting tired of the annoying and un-fun endgame in D4 at level 79 on my rogue, namely NM dungeons. This time I'm going to see endgame in POE and so far it's an incredible game, so much great design.
Im at lvl 78 and cant brimg myself to play. I wanted to get to 100 and beat lillith. But id have to run nm dungeons for another 50 hours.....
Fantastic descriptions, writing, and expert voiceover recording! Well done!
Thank you kindly!
RIP my friend who struggled to buy D4, he even stream the game...end up missing POE mechanic
People should not play POE if they love rpg games every rpg games will make them missing POE mechanic
there is just too much to learn in POE i just dont have the time and tbh i dont like trading and from what i have heard only way you can get what your after is to trade unless you gte lucky, Saying that diablo 4 end game is really bad and boring
Give it another try! I complete all of PoE's challenges each league with minimal trading.
I like every single thing about poe apart from the always constant dark and dull, gray maps.
Dont get me wrong they would be great in their own regard, like the mines in act 4 are terrific and would obviously be dark.
But every single map even the green ones are dark and dull.
I hope POE 2 can break away from this. Abit further zoom would also be better too.
Now with the initial D4 hype gone, you can see how average D4 actually is. The MMO bullshit is by far the biggest thing holding Diablo 4 back.
It feels more like early access or even a beta, devs themselves don't know what game D4 should be.
Even Grim Dawn is gameplay wise miles ahead.
PoE on the other hand is honestly a bit too complicated for lots of "new" players, i hope PoE 2 will fix this.
I've been wanting to try POE for quite some time now but I am scared with the Skill tree being so huge.
its not as big as one might think. If you use spells you don't use stuff that says melee damage etc. also its usually best to try out the game find an ability you like then check if theres a guide or build for it to start with before you go all in trying your own thing.
They just need to allow free skill allocation and I might install the game.
Seeing how bad they fucked up the inventory I'm pretty sure that they didn't copy maps because they couldn't copy maps
Lmfao.
I just played D4 beta for an hr or 2. It's pretty broken. Couldn't bring myself to pay $109aud r D4 yet.
Came across POE. Graphics, presentation, animations all seems better... Is the D4 beta vs current game like night and day ? Or is POE just better - very few hrs of both mind you..
D4's Dungeon objectives somewhat sounded like the old Master missions grind, definitely the best part of POE before betrayal rolled.
These aren't nearly as dynamic from what I've seen, though. So, so repetitive.
You bring up some very good points. The biggest thing D4 has over PoE is the fact that if you have completed the story one time, you can skip it on every new character. I got so tired of doing the same story over and over again in PoE. Thats why I don't play any more. I do plan to go back when 2.0 hits.
completely wrong, it makes almost no sense to skip the campaign in d4, .... the reason why you want to skip the campaign is to avoid walking paths and quests.... but that's exactly what d4 is... So you would need a skip diablo 4 button.
2/10 take honestly. Mapping is boring, dungeons are boring. They are just reused campaign assets. Poe fans be wild.
Ive played a lot of path. Ive played a lot of d4 sense release.
Bottom line: path is far superior in nearly every way. I hope d4 can learn from path's success but with path 2 on the horizon...i think D4's days are very limited even with improvements. Its a real shame honestly. I wanted to get absorbed into d4 the same i do with path. but there's just no meat on those bones.
Best comment of the video, "i play POE over a decade and never get tire of it" maybe that is the Problem.
I admit this makes me a little sad. This game looks AWESOME, and I want to play it so bad. I've tried 3-4 times and it just never clicked. There was just SO MUCH. It feels like if you try to learn it all you are overwhelmed but if not you end up having problems later. This last time I sincerely watched videos, read articles and even took notes for over 2 weeks and I still felt like I was just flying blind and not making any real progress. ANY thoughts or advice would be welcome.
Where did you get stuck? I'd focus on just going through the Acts and learning those base systems: the Passive Skill Tree, Skill Gems and Supports, Basic Crafting/Defenses, and the Masters. If you're having fun while going through the Acts and reach Endgame, focus on one new mechanic at a time as you begins mapping on the Atlas: look at Essences. Are they fun? How can you use them? Glance at Expedition. Is it a good time? How does it help you character?
Also, use me, the ingame Global Chat, and the PoE subreddit/various Discords as resources. I've read a few comments about PoE people being toxic, but that's just some internet folk in general. The PoE community is quite welcoming and helpful to new players, especially if they really want to try out this deep, complex, and awesome game.
@@TalkativeTri thank you so much... The last time was when I got the farthest and I got to the boss right after you unlock the Scion character. I was doing my best to follow a build guide and when I got there I kept pretty much instantly dying to one phase. I guess my resistances weren't good enough? Anyway I wasn't sure how to respec to fix it or what to do so I just stopped there.
That's High Templar Dominus! He can be super tough if you don't have the offense to kill the initial mini-bosses OR the resistances to survive his lightning barrage...not to mention you may have been tripped up on the Blood Rain during his ascendent phase.
When you're going through the first time, you definitely need to focus on defenses as you learn the mechanics, else they'll take you out. Brute-forcing is no fun, but PoE isn't like D4 where you can very easily go through the campaign on world tier 1/2, or even the first difficulty of Diablo 2/3. There's only one difficulty in PoE's acts and it can be PUNISHING.
@@TalkativeTri yeah I remember now it was the Blood Rain phase. I guess I'll start over and try again... Man I'm getting tired of that first part lol. Any recommendations on character choice? Should I just wait for poe 2?
@@edwardosborne3393 Start now. What kind of playstyle do you enjoy, or does that not matter? I think this person on the PoE Subreddit laid out an excellent beginner's post: www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1543juf/since_d4_s1_patch_notes_are_out_heres_a_list_of/
Diablo 4 can be finished in 2 to 4 days cost 70-130 dollars.
POE to beat Maven or the top boss could take you the same time ASSUMING you have deep knowledge of the game - aka you are a veteran and it's FREE!