The biggest mystery with the VH1 sound is the openness and phase-free, non comb- filtered sound that you normally get with mic capture. It almost sounds direct, especially with the fuzziness (severely sagged) sound of the dry track. All that is definitely smoothed by the analog gear and compression. You can almost hear the paper in the cones and I’ve never heard anyone capture it that well with the open mids. Even VH2 is more “typical”. It’s not the room mics but I do think it’s partly the room on the day. Even the humidity level that day will have an effect and that can never be duplicated.
there are so many factors that come into play, like you mention. An important factor that a lot of people don't practice is the fact that ed's cabinets didn't have grill cloth. not having grill cloth makes a pretty big difference on the sound of a speaker and also allows for different mic'ing distances, being that the mic is about 3-4 inches away from the dust cap when the grill cloth is intact. Anyone who is using their coveted IR's found in the OX box is surely using IR's that were recorded WITH grill cloth. Room does play a factor in close mic'ing guitar amps for sure, just a lot less than people think. Especially in a professional, sound "proofed" studio room along with the baffles. the only room sound you hear on VH1 is the sound of the room bouncing off the wall back into the close mics, which is almost always overpowered by the signal recorded from the cabinet. just because there was a "room mic" on the mic sheet, doesn't mean Donn landee used it. Donn was used to recording yacht rock where every instrument had to be super isolated
@@tanneryordanagreed on all that. So many factors and I believe you’re right on the close mic sound without the grill cloth as it does sound almost “direct”. Literally as if it’s closer than any other mic sound in history. It lends to the ethereal quality of the VH1 sound. By being so close and present, it sounds as if it’s coming from everywhere even without post production.
@@davidhurley5032 it was really surprising to hear the dry tracks sounding so close to the final sound, at least without the reverb. I think people are still trying not to believe that the so-called "dry tracks" are without any processing because so many people still can't even come close to even the dry track sound. unfortunately ed used one of the most vague speakers in history. "greenback" refers to about a dozen speakers that ed could have acquired, including the pre and post Rola cones which are wildly different. and most of all, the fact that 2 speakers from the exact date can sound totally different. i believe this is the biggest reason that people can't come close... most people just don't have the money to be buying pre-rola celestions just for "what ifs" lol!
@@tanneryordanagreed! ALL the variables that can never be recreated. Even the right amount of wear on the components. That first record sound is what people refer to as magic.
@@davidhurley5032 lightning in a bottle for sure. I've taken a turn towards the drum sounds of VH because there are just so many more controllable factors when it comes to recreating it. Plus there aren't too many people on the internet to argue with about it being that a lot of the focus is on Ed's sound... lol I'm currently uploading the first of many VH drum sound recreation videos in the style of my friend Jim Gaustad who did the same for eddie's sound. I'm hoping to cover every album!
he used a variac to REDUCE the voltage going to the amp. boosting it would cause the amp to malfunction, which unfortunately happened to a lot of people when eddie lied about using it to boost the voltage.
i think eddie never used distortion pedals, from what ive read that eddie himself has said it was chorus, flanger and phaser, his distortion was from his stack and head unit cranked up
@@thatdirtyninja5829 well “straight in” through flanger, phaser, EQ, echoplex, and Univox echo. that signal chain affects the sound; the echoplex famously adds a slight boost. but it’s hardly a distortion pedal. the distortion of eddies amp came from the variac, volume, and bias settings.
I noticed you are using stereo tracks on the guitar. A lot of the classic albums had a close mic and a room mic panned wide. What are your thoughts? I would have guessed that Eddie recorded mono. Supposedly it was an old tube console and only like 16 tracks. Quite enjoyed your video!
Hey man, my guess is that they are probably false stereo files I.e. mono signal that has been bounced out as stereo It's mono content but with a stereo track
eddie’s guitar track(s) may have been mono, but adding the reverb makes it stereo. the chambers in sunset sound were recorded in stereo for width. there was a room mic recorded for the album as i mentioned, but it picked up the whole band, not just eddie’s guitar. the point of this video was to prove that the room mic was basically ditched for the final mix, and any ambience you hear on the guitar is from the stereo recorded echo chambers or EMT plate reverbs
different 1176 plugins have things set up in the opposite directions weirdly. I have a standalone plugin that is setup opposite to the GR5 I used in this video..
Yours sounded thin compared to the OG track on spotify I think its the spring verb that adds more of that bite Low cut, no low mid cut, maybe a tad high end shelf (easy to make it sound fizzy) I think you need that low mid in there just to keep the body I may say cut if you had a full mix but this is also him playing by himself Just my thoughts Most of eddies guitar tracks have barely any tonal processing on them, if there is its on the mix buss or master stage of things Definitely, depending on album, effects were added in (especially in the 90s) My point i guess is that we shouldnt think of low mid as always mud, its also the body of instruments Take it away and you lose its tonal characters
agreed, I was comparing to the guitar hero isolated tracks which, like I said, are slightly different than the original tracks. it wouldnt take much to make it sound like the real version and it certainly doesn’t need the “room mic” which was what I was trying to prove mostly
Nicely done! You’ve convinced me.
The biggest mystery with the VH1 sound is the openness and phase-free, non comb- filtered sound that you normally get with mic capture. It almost sounds direct, especially with the fuzziness (severely sagged) sound of the dry track. All that is definitely smoothed by the analog gear and compression. You can almost hear the paper in the cones and I’ve never heard anyone capture it that well with the open mids. Even VH2 is more “typical”. It’s not the room mics but I do think it’s partly the room on the day. Even the humidity level that day will have an effect and that can never be duplicated.
there are so many factors that come into play, like you mention. An important factor that a lot of people don't practice is the fact that ed's cabinets didn't have grill cloth. not having grill cloth makes a pretty big difference on the sound of a speaker and also allows for different mic'ing distances, being that the mic is about 3-4 inches away from the dust cap when the grill cloth is intact. Anyone who is using their coveted IR's found in the OX box is surely using IR's that were recorded WITH grill cloth.
Room does play a factor in close mic'ing guitar amps for sure, just a lot less than people think. Especially in a professional, sound "proofed" studio room along with the baffles. the only room sound you hear on VH1 is the sound of the room bouncing off the wall back into the close mics, which is almost always overpowered by the signal recorded from the cabinet. just because there was a "room mic" on the mic sheet, doesn't mean Donn landee used it. Donn was used to recording yacht rock where every instrument had to be super isolated
@@tanneryordanagreed on all that. So many factors and I believe you’re right on the close mic sound without the grill cloth as it does sound almost “direct”. Literally as if it’s closer than any other mic sound in history. It lends to the ethereal quality of the VH1 sound. By being so close and present, it sounds as if it’s coming from everywhere even without post production.
@@davidhurley5032 it was really surprising to hear the dry tracks sounding so close to the final sound, at least without the reverb. I think people are still trying not to believe that the so-called "dry tracks" are without any processing because so many people still can't even come close to even the dry track sound.
unfortunately ed used one of the most vague speakers in history. "greenback" refers to about a dozen speakers that ed could have acquired, including the pre and post Rola cones which are wildly different. and most of all, the fact that 2 speakers from the exact date can sound totally different. i believe this is the biggest reason that people can't come close... most people just don't have the money to be buying pre-rola celestions just for "what ifs" lol!
@@tanneryordanagreed! ALL the variables that can never be recreated. Even the right amount of wear on the components. That first record sound is what people refer to as magic.
@@davidhurley5032 lightning in a bottle for sure. I've taken a turn towards the drum sounds of VH because there are just so many more controllable factors when it comes to recreating it. Plus there aren't too many people on the internet to argue with about it being that a lot of the focus is on Ed's sound... lol
I'm currently uploading the first of many VH drum sound recreation videos in the style of my friend Jim Gaustad who did the same for eddie's sound. I'm hoping to cover every album!
Stick with it kid, you do great work ! Subscribed ;-)
Eddie also used a variac to boost the voltage going into the amp.
he used a variac to REDUCE the voltage going to the amp. boosting it would cause the amp to malfunction, which unfortunately happened to a lot of people when eddie lied about using it to boost the voltage.
i think eddie never used distortion pedals, from what ive read that eddie himself has said it was chorus, flanger and phaser, his distortion was from his stack and head unit cranked up
I don’t believe that I claimed that he used distortion pedals?
Also, there is no chorus (detune is more accurately what eddie used) on the first album
@@tanneryordan oh nah, i wasnt saying you did, i was just saying he never used them, lot of his tone came from him being plugged straight into his rig
@@thatdirtyninja5829 well “straight in” through flanger, phaser, EQ, echoplex, and Univox echo. that signal chain affects the sound; the echoplex famously adds a slight boost. but it’s hardly a distortion pedal. the distortion of eddies amp came from the variac, volume, and bias settings.
Do you have links to the leaked room mic songs?
ua-cam.com/video/LKT5fMeKZnQ/v-deo.html
here is eruption. If you just search 'van halen room mic' you will find all of the ones available
I noticed you are using stereo tracks on the guitar. A lot of the classic albums had a close mic and a room mic panned wide. What are your thoughts? I would have guessed that Eddie recorded mono. Supposedly it was an old tube console and only like 16 tracks. Quite enjoyed your video!
Hey man, my guess is that they are probably false stereo files
I.e. mono signal that has been bounced out as stereo
It's mono content but with a stereo track
eddie’s guitar track(s) may have been mono, but adding the reverb makes it stereo. the chambers in sunset sound were recorded in stereo for width.
there was a room mic recorded for the album as i mentioned, but it picked up the whole band, not just eddie’s guitar. the point of this video was to prove that the room mic was basically ditched for the final mix, and any ambience you hear on the guitar is from the stereo recorded echo chambers or EMT plate reverbs
@@Notinserviceij it is not mono content. his guitar track may have been, but with stereo reverb and panning it becomes stereo content
The release on an 1176 is opposite, you had it set at the fastest release
different 1176 plugins have things set up in the opposite directions weirdly. I have a standalone plugin that is setup opposite to the GR5 I used in this video..
Yours sounded thin compared to the OG track on spotify
I think its the spring verb that adds more of that bite
Low cut, no low mid cut, maybe a tad high end shelf (easy to make it sound fizzy)
I think you need that low mid in there just to keep the body
I may say cut if you had a full mix but this is also him playing by himself
Just my thoughts
Most of eddies guitar tracks have barely any tonal processing on them, if there is its on the mix buss or master stage of things
Definitely, depending on album, effects were added in (especially in the 90s)
My point i guess is that we shouldnt think of low mid as always mud, its also the body of instruments
Take it away and you lose its tonal characters
agreed, I was comparing to the guitar hero isolated tracks which, like I said, are slightly different than the original tracks. it wouldnt take much to make it sound like the real version and it certainly doesn’t need the “room mic” which was what I was trying to prove mostly