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Are you also watching the Traitors Uncloaked series? It's only 30 minutes and you get to hear what went into some of the decisions that are being made straight from the players that made them. For example, the three that got off the train assumed there would be a chance to come back, and by my implication figured it was a way to enter the game farther in without risk of banishment. It's a gamble but one that's paying off for Alexander despite the heat on him.
Anyone who has watched previous versions of Traitors would realise there would be a very strong chance they'd be re-entering the game later as it's happened before
Not sure if anyone else has raised this in the comments, but the reason why a traitor could put themselves in the deathmatch game is because they would be safe regardless of what happens. They either pick the life card in the first two rounds and are safe or in the final round, once the other players are gone, they're joined by the other traitor and hand the remaining faithful the murder letter, skipping the final round of the game.
@@thejintymyster6396I think they probably discussed it but it was edited out as a bit a surprise to the audience later on. At first I was thinking it's obvious none of them are Traitors until I realised how it would play out if one of them was.
The huge flaw with this show is that, even though they might celebrate when they vote out a traitor, chances are they'll be replaced with another traitor. If there was a set limit of traitors it would be fairer, although the length of the run would vary from series to series.
I kind of agree but now this series is over we were almost at the position of no traitors even before the last day...would have been interesting for them to try that . We could have had a 4 way faithful split win but they they were a little paranoid of Frankie and Alexander....it's interesting when faithfuls throw other faithfuls under the bus
Agreed. It’s also unfair on the traitors to play a great game, including banishing other traitors, and then be forced to recruit: watering down their share of the prize and also putting them at risk of being set up by the new traitor.
@@John-ng3pj recruiting other traitors when you don't have to use usually a big mistake. Imo the game should run that if there is only 1 traitor after about 80% through the game that they do not have to recruit but they have to before that
The eight reason to banish a traitor, if you do so there is a chance you will be recruited and have a better chance of winning more money, as well as gaining control over the game
The interesting thing is you do not want to end up with an effective traitor at the end. You don't want the person who's hoodwinking everyone still in the game by the last episode, you want the idiot traitor who's obvious. Aka, they didn't want Minah or Charlotte at the end, they wanted Linda. Voting out Linda therefore is counterproductive - you want to keep her in the game as long as you can - better the devil you know. Minah recruiting Charlotte has really fucked the faithfuls AND Minah in a sense because Charlotte is one of the most trusted people in the castle. If she backstabs Minah successfully and gets her voted out, the faithfuls have all but lost, because their view of Charlotte is that of a trusted faithful, which you don't want at the end. If you really wanted to play the game as a faithful, you'd be better off getting more trustworthy people banished while trying to make sure a dumb traitor stays in the game you can get voted out at the end. Of course, not everyone would play the game like that, but I don't think voting out traitors early in the game really helps.
Unless they edit all of that out, I’ve not seen any faithful play the game like this. It actually makes great sense as a strategy - if you are pretty sure you know the traitor, keep that 1 in to the final and vote them out then. But that takes a lot of forward thinking, needs the majority to agree, and you’d still never be sure who else was a traitor or even that you had def gotten a traitor. But the main issue is I just don’t see anyone playing the game like this.
At first reading this seems like a genius idea. However there is a problem with this tactic. It puts a target on your back. You either mention the idea to people which raises suspicion, could lead to you being banished. Or you keep it to yourself, in which case you could get banished for a reason such as "why are you not voting out an obvious traitor". Finally if a weak traitor suspects you are keeping them in the game so as to call them out at the end, they will murder you. It's possible of course that this tactic might work, and on first reading I thought, that is brilliant! It is still brilliant, but it's certainly not a guarantee. If you can get banished for "having a twinkle in your eye", you could certainly be banished for not voting out obvious traitors.
It can work late on if you have survived that long, when the numbers are small and if people trust you - but early on it would be difficult to exert enough influence not to go against voting out an obvious traitor. And while you might have your eye on one traitor there are two others making moves around you while you banish your fellow faithfuls.
group dynamics and tasks like this was very well explained so loved this video once again! i do think it’s interesting how in the most recent episode in which leon or frankie were being voted out because everyone saying they were confused and so ended up voting either if these two - obviously again because of this stressful environment- but also at this point also they’re considering who hasn’t been questioned which is interesting because before obviously it isn’t considered who is most faithful - rather than before of who is most seemingly nice or ‘would be a good traitor’ - because is everyone just at this point they don’t know who to trust, they’re stressed and i feel like they are slightly (emphasis on this) catching on to the fact that they can’t rely on suspicious behaviour always = to a traitorous behaviour. (due to a ‘streak’ of voting out faithfuls based on ‘suspicious behaviour’) also heard in an interview with armani that she’s neurodivergent but got diagnosed after the game which i think is really interesting considering how she explained the game helped her come to this conclusion and also watched another interview with ellen i think that’s her name - explaining the emotions being so intense purely because no one has their phones for the duration of the game so those ppl are the only they know for the time and who they spend time with so no one acc wants anyone to leave and hence why it’s so emotional bc realistically they don’t want to believe anyone is a traitor (not always at least)
What a treat. I really enjoy your analysis of the game. There are definitely 4 traitors sometimes. I think that not giving the contestants a specific number helps to keep the suspense and intrigue up. Great review!
Just to clarify the death match... the faithful thought that if the traitor got to the final two, the faithful would be murdered. Someone explicitly said that. It felt like a bit of a weird leap - I would guess that Claudia provided them with more details of "the rules" than the viewers got to see as they all suddenly believed in this mechanism without any discussion of it. I think there is a lot of truth to the idea that the players are trying to think about what the production would do to keep things interesting. I also think that they play up to the cameras to get screen time.
@@sherriromas5871it’s common for people to hate on AUS2. It has its own cult hate following. I thought it was comical, ridiculous - which made it good.
The whole point of the show is to demonstrate herd mentality and false security in one's own sense of knowing things by instinct. There are no real clues regarding who traitors are (other than Linda turning when Claudia said "traitors" but that was a one-off). They're making decisions based on who rubbed them up the wrong way that day, who is too loud, who is too quiet. Put Columbo in there and he'd be equally as clueless. It's all based on vibes and personal bias. The show brilliantly reveals how pathetic human intuition actually is. They clearly targeted Kas, for example, because he was a doctor and that comes with an assumption of intelligence/confidence/leadership, which obviously intimidated them. Essentially, it's the... 'you think you're better than me'... prejudice which is so excellently exposed by this show. But the idea that you can actually make logical deductions about who traitors are is nonsense.
I saw an interesting tiktok about the Kas thing, about how some of the contestants are actually going against ‘production’. There’s a rule in reality TV where you can’t mention producer influence/decisions (even though there are some) to keep the game contained within the 4 walls. The Kas theory was essentially them trying to say “i think the producers would think it would make great TV to have a doctor as a traitor” but he couldn’t word it like that. Similar with Ellen’s theory of ‘strong female traitors’, anyone who watched season 2 would think this is a given, but she can’t explicitly say that because it’s referencing a previous season which they’re not allowed to do.
What you said at the start about there being a max of 3 traitors at any time is wrong btw, at the start of uk s2 there was Paul, Harry and Ash and they recruited Miles before any of them were banished
There can be 4 traitors. And in the USA season this year, a new player, coming in the same, is a traitor. Or relatively the same. They were also in the cage.
One of the key things or Dan was Minah having her thumb on the scales as well. The group dynamic also shifts when you have someone deliberately putting a thumb on the scales!
I generally agree with you but in regard to your first point, there could be four traitors (as we saw early in season 2) so it is not so unlikely that one of Fozia or Alexander would be a traitors.
A really interesting point is to consider that Minah has had a successful track record in voting the Traitors out e.g Armarni and Linda, it'd also be interesting to see if people voting less with the crowd are more likely to be Faithful or not. If I was playing the game I'd look carefully at who votes with the crowd early on, when there are 3 traitors at the start of the game you'd expect them to follow the crowd the most.
I'd love one year for the show to NOT tell the audience who the traitors are in the first few episodes, I don't know how they'd do it and it's just something I fancy but it would be so interesting to see what the viewers would base their bias on, we all think it's so obvious and laugh when they base assumptions on literally nothing (twinkle in the eye) but it's only because we know it seems obvious. It would be amazing to twist it against us the audience and the producers go "see it's not that easy is it!?" I still think Jake did such a good job spotting Linda's head turn when Claudia said "traitors" that was a 100% subconscious reaction to her new role and he deserves to win just for spotting that 😂
I was the one making a comment about your own biases and I just wanted to say thanks for responding in such a kind and honest way. I forget to say that I don't think my observation on your own biases clashes with the ultimate point you are making. That social dynamics affect rational thinking. And that our biases will make us believe our decisions are logical when they are mostly based on emotional factors. We are all in a social experiment all the time.
9:30 I read a really interesting book on group dynamics and diversity by mathew Syed. He explains this really well in stating that groups of similar people/friends get along really well but the end result is worse, but a diverse group produces better results but the experience of individuals is worse due to conflict and challenging existing methods and thinking. In the traitors, anyone thinking differently is seen as a traitor and a threat and banished but could have been the most helpful people. I believe this is partly due to the lesser smart people not being able to comprehend the smarter people rationale. Matthew Syed in the book explains this well with the example of 9/11 where the typical white male cia staff did not take the intelligence surrounding bin laden seriously as they were unable to comprehend or understand how a man in a cave (a holy place) dressed in basic rags (seen as holy as he wore clothes closely resembling his god) was a threat. Whereas someone with a different way of thinking/someone who understands the religion would have been easily able to decipher that as a significant threat
I think far too much of the gameplay this year is coloured by what has happened before on past seasons. It's inevitable when the rules of the game stay so similar. Things I've noticed people doing a lot more this season; Saying 'I keep wondering why I'm still here...' because they've seen how in past seasons Traitors have kept their closest friends to the end. People said early on 'I have a feeling there will a strong group of female traitors' as they think production will overcompensate for the very blokey composition of the traitors last year. People said that at least of one of the Traitors would be in the death match, and I think is entirely down to last years dungeon game, as if they actually sat and thought about the death match, why would a traitor subject themself to a game of entire random luck.
Yesssssss! I left that monster comment on your last video, I was so excited to see this drop! The psychology of this show is so interesting- so much of what they think and assume comes from Claudia planting a seed. I feel like they see Claudia as a neutral host of the show when she’s actually manipulating everyone. I just got to the biases section and it’s affirming to hear your thoughts here since they echoed what I said- it’s nice to be kind of on the money.
I can't remember what your last comment said but I can remember seeing your username and thinking it was a good comment 😆 the good comments is half the reason I decided to make a second video because it's nice to know it's something people wanna engage with
I was the person talking about biases and how potentially neurodivergent people get banished first. The hive mind, group thinking, lord of the flies approach to the game. It was dead cool having you confirm my thinking on this, because these things have frustrated me for all three seasons!
I think Claudia should have phrased it as: for each of Alexander and Fozia, there’s a 1/8 chance they were randomly selected as a traitor. That way they all understand they could be Traitors, but also that it’s unlikely, while being not any less likely than anyone already in the game.
They don’t know how many traitors they started with, and they can never be 100% sure the show will stick to the usual rules so it was natural for them to suspect one of the train people of being a Traitor.
They also didn’t know how the death match worked. As the viewers we knew that all participants had an equal chance of dying but for all they knew the Traitor could’ve had some sort of advantage if they chose to put themselves in the game (like being told the right cards by Claudia). I doubt they would let the Traitors murder themselves.
Suffolk, so fairly close. There's much more Suffolk in my accent, though some Essex too, and neither come out strong when I talk into a mic, so you did well to spot it
I wonder if they're allowed to have some paper and a pen at their lodgings. I would write it all down and draw the parallels, any themes or patterns, I would ask lots of questions and note it all down to find anything that sounds weird.
Not sure on the Kasim analysis. The fact that you misremembered the toast as being for Elen instead of Keith, shows what a peculiar thing it was. Why did he do it in Welsh in homage to Elen? Why did he take it upon himself to, first of all, lead a toast for a stranger to a roomful of strangers, and simultaneously celebrate the Welsh mother tongue of another stranger? But sure, none of that makes him a traitor. It's a gauche attempt to make a mark on the group, and also, maybe, indicates a tiny streak of arrogance, which is not entirely unknown in the medical field. That's not to say he's not a nice chap too.
Wouldn’t read too much into Kas’ toast tbh. Guy most likely had a decent few convos with Elen which would maybe warrant his toast. Again, I don’t think it was that deep. Maybe more of an attempt to just keep positivity going
Doctor by day murderer by night according to some of the silly faithfuls. Joe is the worst and I'd imagine would struggle to continue being a teacher after this. Knowing this person is a horrible piece of work and has power over your kids is very worrying
If you were on the show how far do you think you'd actually get? Cause Id love to see that now. I hope contestants start understanding how to play like your last video. Itd be great to see how far that actually works under pressure lol.
Oh I'd be gone in no time 😂 on the one hand, I'd be murdered for my awareness, especially if they found out I was a therapist, that'd put a target on my back. On the other hand, I'd be banished for not conforming to the group. I can be quite an awkward person in certain social situations and I think I'd accidentally do something odd, like Kasim giving a toast, and everything would think it was really suspicious. Also, the big, big point of the group relations conferences was to try and get good at noticing your behaviour and the group's behaviour while it's still happening. It's very easy to stop things watching back a TV show, but I can't guarantee I'd be able to resist the pressures of the group in the moment and think with perspective. Stress makes everything 10x more difficult. I'd like to imagine I'd be good, but I don't think I'd last, and I'm likely never going to apply to find out
Wondering why a therapist needs to know about group dynamics (team coach or group facilitator perhaps, rather than therapist? or family therapist?) but enjoyed the mention of Bion, T-groups (OK, not by this name) and cognitive biases. Still curious to know why show is BROKEN.
It was part of our training for several reasons I think. In case we ever go into group therapy. As a starting point for understanding organisational dynamics which is really important when working within a school or hospital or something, even if the therapy is still 1-to-1. And also just generally to better understand ourselves and help us be more self aware in our work. Why the show is broken is because the original title wasn't getting any views and it was the best thing I could think of on the spot 😂 I do say the phrase in the video in relation to how it's not an accurate reflection of ordinary group dynamics because the situation is so intense and designed to cause fractured or "broken" dynamics
i feel like the fact they always think in the show that there could be four even at once is a good indication that this may be true? we never really know tho 😂
@@mylittlethoughttree the currently airing US show had 4 traitors just now (one of them got banished this week) but I've seen 4 max in other seasons (new zealand I think) I'm not aware of 5 at a single point
@mylittlethoughttree I was about to say UK season 2 had 4 traitors, so the first point isn't necessarily accurate. There's no actual defined limit, therefore it was a reasonable assumption that both of them could have been traitors. Plus from a TV perspective it would be a 🎉plot twist🎉
If you know who the traitors are, would it be best not to banish them at all? Then you can just banish them at the end. I didn’t like how that there has to be a minimum of 2 traitors at a time as to me it gives them an unfair advantage. But it’s a game show I guess so need to string it out for as long as possible
Im confused by the final epsiode as a faitful you are best just voting as many people out as possible until theres only two of you, as you wont know if youve got a traitor or not. Thats what id do and then id split it with whoever i want afterwards if they arent a traitor
Yeah I agree, it makes sense for a faithful to do that, but that made the final quite miserable as Alexander and Francesca were banished. If Frankie was a traitor, they could have both just said they were faithful and it would be a better game strategy. I think the producers need a rethink of their final and endgame.
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I think you also gravely misunderstand the death match episode. My understanding is that if one (or two or three) of the traitors willingly put themselves in the game, the game will carry on as normal until there is only one faithful remaining. If there are other traitors also in the game with that last faithful, they will simply reveal their indentity and reveal that that remaining faithful will be murdered. I think it is by definition that traitors cannot be murdered. Obviously that would make no sense because the game decides who the traitors murder and obviously theyre not gonna film the traitors revealing themselves to another traitor that they are going to kill them. I dont think traitors can get murdered. Its true that the show doesnt explicitly state this is the case, but it is also true that it is your assumption to believe that a traitor that puts themselves in this game is risking getting murdered themselves (which doesnt really make sense anyway especially with the way its set up that the murdered person gets murdered face to face by the traitors).
So people are discriminatory for banishing Dan? He was literally being an asshole. It’s not an excuse that he’s autistic. I would play the game very similar to Dan, completely selfishly, but I wouldn’t advertise that to the other players and I certainly wouldn’t then call them bigoted for calling me out for being a dickhead. Mental health is not an excuse for bad behaviour.
It's not discrimination or bigotry, but it's a point about how easily differences can still be misunderstood when under enough pressure and group environment. I don't think he was being a dickhead at all, though. He played the game they were supposed to play, kept his choice a secret like almost everybody else did, then when an argument occurred he confessed to it and was honest about the fact he really wanted a shield. He didn't express it with much tact but that's certainly not being an asshole and certainly not bad behaviour by the remit of the game
The thing is, I agree with all the points you make, some of them even pointed out in this video or my others. I did however mistake the death match and the maximum amount of traitors, however I don't think that discredits either point. It does show I rushed a bit too quick to get this out, though and made dumb errors
@@mylittlethoughttree No these two points about your lack of understanding about basic information about the game are only the minor reasons why your perspectives and conclusions about the psychology of the contestants are misguided. I could re-explain why exactly your thoughts are misguided even in the first five minutes but Ill just copy and paste this previous comment I made: "I think your analysis of people making assumptions about the two contestants chances of being traitors is very unaware of the fact that this is a tv show. This isnt real life, whether or not the two new contestants are traitors are not at all decided by real life phenomenon, its decided by tv producers trying to make an exciting tv show. Its not at all strange that people may make assumptions that the producers may want to introduce a traitor into the game is a new context for entertainment purposes. I think you also gravely misunderstand Traitors as a game too and all the different strategic interpretations you could have on how best to win the game. You have to realise that as a faithful in the game, winning the game is not actually about finding the traitors. Intentionally confusing other contestants, getting faithful competitors banished, coming across as irrational or having faulty logic, etc. is likely something that is beneficial to your chances of winning the game. You have to realise that as a faithful, you have to outlast other faithfuls- which may mean causing other faithfuls to get murdered or banished, survive murder decisions that the traitors make AND get rid of the traitors IF you are not recruited at some point before the final 2 contestants. And if you are recruited to make sure the other traitors and/or faithfuls dont banish you. Your simplistic understanding of the game makes you analyse the psychology of the contestants incorrectly."
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Are you also watching the Traitors Uncloaked series? It's only 30 minutes and you get to hear what went into some of the decisions that are being made straight from the players that made them. For example, the three that got off the train assumed there would be a chance to come back, and by my implication figured it was a way to enter the game farther in without risk of banishment. It's a gamble but one that's paying off for Alexander despite the heat on him.
I've seen a few episodes. I dip into them when I have the time as I do really like Ed Gamble
Anyone who has watched previous versions of Traitors would realise there would be a very strong chance they'd be re-entering the game later as it's happened before
Not sure if anyone else has raised this in the comments, but the reason why a traitor could put themselves in the deathmatch game is because they would be safe regardless of what happens. They either pick the life card in the first two rounds and are safe or in the final round, once the other players are gone, they're joined by the other traitor and hand the remaining faithful the murder letter, skipping the final round of the game.
Yeah I got that wrong. I think the general point still works though
I didn't realise one of the traitors could be in the death game until Claudia mentioned, as Linda and Meenah didn't act as if that was a possibility
@@thejintymyster6396I think they probably discussed it but it was edited out as a bit a surprise to the audience later on. At first I was thinking it's obvious none of them are Traitors until I realised how it would play out if one of them was.
2:11 this isn’t true, the last season started with 4 traitors - they have no reason to think there is 3 traitors specifically
I think I read somewhere the producers tell the contestants they start with anywhere from 3-5 traitors
Where did you get that from? Didn't S2 start with 3 traitors: Ash, Harry and Paul
@@joevictor53 Claudia picked 3 traitors then the traitors met up and recruited another one!! :)
there can be four traitors... in season 2 there was 4 at the begining
Also how do they know there’s a limit? Like what’s to stop them being 5 or something, it’s a weird argument
@fishfinger6669 exactly
The huge flaw with this show is that, even though they might celebrate when they vote out a traitor, chances are they'll be replaced with another traitor. If there was a set limit of traitors it would be fairer, although the length of the run would vary from series to series.
Nah
I kind of agree but now this series is over we were almost at the position of no traitors even before the last day...would have been interesting for them to try that . We could have had a 4 way faithful split win but they they were a little paranoid of Frankie and Alexander....it's interesting when faithfuls throw other faithfuls under the bus
Agreed. It’s also unfair on the traitors to play a great game, including banishing other traitors, and then be forced to recruit: watering down their share of the prize and also putting them at risk of being set up by the new traitor.
@@John-ng3pj recruiting other traitors when you don't have to use usually a big mistake. Imo the game should run that if there is only 1 traitor after about 80% through the game that they do not have to recruit but they have to before that
@@skyblazeeterno what would have happened if Freddie had declined though? would they have tried someone else instead?
The eight reason to banish a traitor, if you do so there is a chance you will be recruited and have a better chance of winning more money, as well as gaining control over the game
The interesting thing is you do not want to end up with an effective traitor at the end. You don't want the person who's hoodwinking everyone still in the game by the last episode, you want the idiot traitor who's obvious. Aka, they didn't want Minah or Charlotte at the end, they wanted Linda. Voting out Linda therefore is counterproductive - you want to keep her in the game as long as you can - better the devil you know. Minah recruiting Charlotte has really fucked the faithfuls AND Minah in a sense because Charlotte is one of the most trusted people in the castle. If she backstabs Minah successfully and gets her voted out, the faithfuls have all but lost, because their view of Charlotte is that of a trusted faithful, which you don't want at the end. If you really wanted to play the game as a faithful, you'd be better off getting more trustworthy people banished while trying to make sure a dumb traitor stays in the game you can get voted out at the end.
Of course, not everyone would play the game like that, but I don't think voting out traitors early in the game really helps.
Unless they edit all of that out, I’ve not seen any faithful play the game like this. It actually makes great sense as a strategy - if you are pretty sure you know the traitor, keep that 1 in to the final and vote them out then. But that takes a lot of forward thinking, needs the majority to agree, and you’d still never be sure who else was a traitor or even that you had def gotten a traitor. But the main issue is I just don’t see anyone playing the game like this.
At first reading this seems like a genius idea. However there is a problem with this tactic. It puts a target on your back. You either mention the idea to people which raises suspicion, could lead to you being banished. Or you keep it to yourself, in which case you could get banished for a reason such as "why are you not voting out an obvious traitor". Finally if a weak traitor suspects you are keeping them in the game so as to call them out at the end, they will murder you. It's possible of course that this tactic might work, and on first reading I thought, that is brilliant! It is still brilliant, but it's certainly not a guarantee. If you can get banished for "having a twinkle in your eye", you could certainly be banished for not voting out obvious traitors.
It can work late on if you have survived that long, when the numbers are small and if people trust you - but early on it would be difficult to exert enough influence not to go against voting out an obvious traitor. And while you might have your eye on one traitor there are two others making moves around you while you banish your fellow faithfuls.
group dynamics and tasks like this was very well explained so loved this video once again! i do think it’s interesting how in the most recent episode in which leon or frankie were being voted out because everyone saying they were confused and so ended up voting either if these two - obviously again because of this stressful environment- but also at this point also they’re considering who hasn’t been questioned which is interesting because before obviously it isn’t considered who is most faithful - rather than before of who is most seemingly nice or ‘would be a good traitor’ - because is everyone just at this point they don’t know who to trust, they’re stressed and i feel like they are slightly (emphasis on this) catching on to the fact that they can’t rely on suspicious behaviour always = to a traitorous behaviour. (due to a ‘streak’ of voting out faithfuls based on ‘suspicious behaviour’)
also heard in an interview with armani that she’s neurodivergent but got diagnosed after the game which i think is really interesting considering how she explained the game helped her come to this conclusion and
also watched another interview with ellen i think that’s her name - explaining the emotions being so intense purely because no one has their phones for the duration of the game so those ppl are the only they know for the time and who they spend time with so no one acc wants anyone to leave and hence why it’s so emotional bc realistically they don’t want to believe anyone is a traitor (not always at least)
What a treat. I really enjoy your analysis of the game. There are definitely 4 traitors sometimes. I think that not giving the contestants a specific number helps to keep the suspense and intrigue up. Great review!
Just to clarify the death match... the faithful thought that if the traitor got to the final two, the faithful would be murdered. Someone explicitly said that. It felt like a bit of a weird leap - I would guess that Claudia provided them with more details of "the rules" than the viewers got to see as they all suddenly believed in this mechanism without any discussion of it.
I think there is a lot of truth to the idea that the players are trying to think about what the production would do to keep things interesting. I also think that they play up to the cameras to get screen time.
I’m subscribing because I want to see you breakdown the stupidity that was Traitors Australia S2. That season just made me angry the whole time.
I absolutley loved that season, so not sure what you are banging on about lol
Yea it was terrible. Felt like a completely different show altogether.
@@sherriromas5871it’s common for people to hate on AUS2. It has its own cult hate following. I thought it was comical, ridiculous - which made it good.
The whole point of the show is to demonstrate herd mentality and false security in one's own sense of knowing things by instinct. There are no real clues regarding who traitors are (other than Linda turning when Claudia said "traitors" but that was a one-off). They're making decisions based on who rubbed them up the wrong way that day, who is too loud, who is too quiet. Put Columbo in there and he'd be equally as clueless. It's all based on vibes and personal bias. The show brilliantly reveals how pathetic human intuition actually is. They clearly targeted Kas, for example, because he was a doctor and that comes with an assumption of intelligence/confidence/leadership, which obviously intimidated them. Essentially, it's the... 'you think you're better than me'... prejudice which is so excellently exposed by this show. But the idea that you can actually make logical deductions about who traitors are is nonsense.
I saw an interesting tiktok about the Kas thing, about how some of the contestants are actually going against ‘production’. There’s a rule in reality TV where you can’t mention producer influence/decisions (even though there are some) to keep the game contained within the 4 walls.
The Kas theory was essentially them trying to say “i think the producers would think it would make great TV to have a doctor as a traitor” but he couldn’t word it like that. Similar with Ellen’s theory of ‘strong female traitors’, anyone who watched season 2 would think this is a given, but she can’t explicitly say that because it’s referencing a previous season which they’re not allowed to do.
Literally just finished your last traitors video, what good timing :)
There has been 4 traitors.
UK series 2, Harry, Paul and Ash recruited Miles in episode 2.
The first Australian series, started with 4 traitors
Also the newest US series, starts with 3, but a 4th is added.
What you said at the start about there being a max of 3 traitors at any time is wrong btw, at the start of uk s2 there was Paul, Harry and Ash and they recruited Miles before any of them were banished
Mm! Also, 2 seasons from US and Aus started with 4 traitors.
There can be 4 traitors. And in the USA season this year, a new player, coming in the same, is a traitor. Or relatively the same. They were also in the cage.
The big difference is there wasnt a chance rob wouldnt come in, one person being left behind in uk means traitor among is unlikely
One of the key things or Dan was Minah having her thumb on the scales as well. The group dynamic also shifts when you have someone deliberately putting a thumb on the scales!
I generally agree with you but in regard to your first point, there could be four traitors (as we saw early in season 2) so it is not so unlikely that one of Fozia or Alexander would be a traitors.
A really interesting point is to consider that Minah has had a successful track record in voting the Traitors out e.g Armarni and Linda, it'd also be interesting to see if people voting less with the crowd are more likely to be Faithful or not.
If I was playing the game I'd look carefully at who votes with the crowd early on, when there are 3 traitors at the start of the game you'd expect them to follow the crowd the most.
yesss i knew i could count on you for the season 3 video🔥🤘🏿
I'd love one year for the show to NOT tell the audience who the traitors are in the first few episodes, I don't know how they'd do it and it's just something I fancy but it would be so interesting to see what the viewers would base their bias on, we all think it's so obvious and laugh when they base assumptions on literally nothing (twinkle in the eye) but it's only because we know it seems obvious. It would be amazing to twist it against us the audience and the producers go "see it's not that easy is it!?"
I still think Jake did such a good job spotting Linda's head turn when Claudia said "traitors" that was a 100% subconscious reaction to her new role and he deserves to win just for spotting that 😂
Thats the mole
I was the one making a comment about your own biases and I just wanted to say thanks for responding in such a kind and honest way. I forget to say that I don't think my observation on your own biases clashes with the ultimate point you are making. That social dynamics affect rational thinking. And that our biases will make us believe our decisions are logical when they are mostly based on emotional factors. We are all in a social experiment all the time.
9:30 I read a really interesting book on group dynamics and diversity by mathew Syed. He explains this really well in stating that groups of similar people/friends get along really well but the end result is worse, but a diverse group produces better results but the experience of individuals is worse due to conflict and challenging existing methods and thinking. In the traitors, anyone thinking differently is seen as a traitor and a threat and banished but could have been the most helpful people. I believe this is partly due to the lesser smart people not being able to comprehend the smarter people rationale.
Matthew Syed in the book explains this well with the example of 9/11 where the typical white male cia staff did not take the intelligence surrounding bin laden seriously as they were unable to comprehend or understand how a man in a cave (a holy place) dressed in basic rags (seen as holy as he wore clothes closely resembling his god) was a threat. Whereas someone with a different way of thinking/someone who understands the religion would have been easily able to decipher that as a significant threat
I think far too much of the gameplay this year is coloured by what has happened before on past seasons. It's inevitable when the rules of the game stay so similar. Things I've noticed people doing a lot more this season; Saying 'I keep wondering why I'm still here...' because they've seen how in past seasons Traitors have kept their closest friends to the end. People said early on 'I have a feeling there will a strong group of female traitors' as they think production will overcompensate for the very blokey composition of the traitors last year. People said that at least of one of the Traitors would be in the death match, and I think is entirely down to last years dungeon game, as if they actually sat and thought about the death match, why would a traitor subject themself to a game of entire random luck.
You talk about racism and ableism, but I think ageism is also very prevalent in the traitors. People make huge assumptions based on age in this show.
Yesssssss! I left that monster comment on your last video, I was so excited to see this drop!
The psychology of this show is so interesting- so much of what they think and assume comes from Claudia planting a seed. I feel like they see Claudia as a neutral host of the show when she’s actually manipulating everyone.
I just got to the biases section and it’s affirming to hear your thoughts here since they echoed what I said- it’s nice to be kind of on the money.
I can't remember what your last comment said but I can remember seeing your username and thinking it was a good comment 😆 the good comments is half the reason I decided to make a second video because it's nice to know it's something people wanna engage with
I was the person talking about biases and how potentially neurodivergent people get banished first. The hive mind, group thinking, lord of the flies approach to the game. It was dead cool having you confirm my thinking on this, because these things have frustrated me for all three seasons!
i loved the part abt u comparing it to lord of the flies because it most definitely is worth noting !
Oh yes, I remember now! It was a good comment
I think Claudia should have phrased it as: for each of Alexander and Fozia, there’s a 1/8 chance they were randomly selected as a traitor. That way they all understand they could be Traitors, but also that it’s unlikely, while being not any less likely than anyone already in the game.
She would never do this. Production want as much chaos and confusion as possible!
They don’t know how many traitors they started with, and they can never be 100% sure the show will stick to the usual rules so it was natural for them to suspect one of the train people of being a Traitor.
They also didn’t know how the death match worked. As the viewers we knew that all participants had an equal chance of dying but for all they knew the Traitor could’ve had some sort of advantage if they chose to put themselves in the game (like being told the right cards by Claudia). I doubt they would let the Traitors murder themselves.
Id love to see your takes on characters from Succession!!!! I can't find enough video analysis of the characters
Is it a rule of the show that there can only be a maximum of 3 traitors? I thought there could be more! I’m sure they’ve had 4 traitors in the past!
No, I believe producers tell the contestants that there’s anywhere from 3-5 traitors to begin with, so no one knows the exact number they start with
The format of the show is deeply flawed yet somehow it manages to fly.
There have been 4 traitors before.
I know it's off-topic but are you from Essex? I grew up there but haven't lived there in twenty years, your accent triggers a lot of memories!
Suffolk, so fairly close. There's much more Suffolk in my accent, though some Essex too, and neither come out strong when I talk into a mic, so you did well to spot it
@@mylittlethoughttree I guess there's a broader Anglian accent, so that makes sense. Your channel's really interesting, either way.
this was unequivocally your best WorldAnvil ad read
It's definitely not but that's why I love it 😂
Please do an episode after the final has now happened!
“Fozia and Alexander haven’t been banished yet” urrrrr so who want to tell him about fozia
Fozia was murdered not banished
@ ik but like
Yeah Fozia wasn't babish and as I said at the start, I was going to avoid spoiling things unless it was necessary for the video
Love this video! Thank you for making it!
Though I thinking you’re being a bit generous with the contestants- they are not all intelligent people 😂😂😂
I wonder if they're allowed to have some paper and a pen at their lodgings. I would write it all down and draw the parallels, any themes or patterns, I would ask lots of questions and note it all down to find anything that sounds weird.
I think most of them do exactly that, yeah
Not sure on the Kasim analysis. The fact that you misremembered the toast as being for Elen instead of Keith, shows what a peculiar thing it was. Why did he do it in Welsh in homage to Elen? Why did he take it upon himself to, first of all, lead a toast for a stranger to a roomful of strangers, and simultaneously celebrate the Welsh mother tongue of another stranger? But sure, none of that makes him a traitor. It's a gauche attempt to make a mark on the group, and also, maybe, indicates a tiny streak of arrogance, which is not entirely unknown in the medical field. That's not to say he's not a nice chap too.
Wouldn’t read too much into Kas’ toast tbh. Guy most likely had a decent few convos with Elen which would maybe warrant his toast. Again, I don’t think it was that deep. Maybe more of an attempt to just keep positivity going
Doctor by day murderer by night according to some of the silly faithfuls. Joe is the worst and I'd imagine would struggle to continue being a teacher after this. Knowing this person is a horrible piece of work and has power over your kids is very worrying
@@thenoodlebuddydayummm i don’t like joe either but that’s a crazy assumption
I've recently found this channel and I'm really enjoying it, though i do think your intro is a tad long
If you were on the show how far do you think you'd actually get? Cause Id love to see that now. I hope contestants start understanding how to play like your last video. Itd be great to see how far that actually works under pressure lol.
Oh I'd be gone in no time 😂 on the one hand, I'd be murdered for my awareness, especially if they found out I was a therapist, that'd put a target on my back. On the other hand, I'd be banished for not conforming to the group. I can be quite an awkward person in certain social situations and I think I'd accidentally do something odd, like Kasim giving a toast, and everything would think it was really suspicious.
Also, the big, big point of the group relations conferences was to try and get good at noticing your behaviour and the group's behaviour while it's still happening. It's very easy to stop things watching back a TV show, but I can't guarantee I'd be able to resist the pressures of the group in the moment and think with perspective. Stress makes everything 10x more difficult. I'd like to imagine I'd be good, but I don't think I'd last, and I'm likely never going to apply to find out
Wondering why a therapist needs to know about group dynamics (team coach or group facilitator perhaps, rather than therapist? or family therapist?) but enjoyed the mention of Bion, T-groups (OK, not by this name) and cognitive biases. Still curious to know why show is BROKEN.
It was part of our training for several reasons I think. In case we ever go into group therapy. As a starting point for understanding organisational dynamics which is really important when working within a school or hospital or something, even if the therapy is still 1-to-1. And also just generally to better understand ourselves and help us be more self aware in our work.
Why the show is broken is because the original title wasn't getting any views and it was the best thing I could think of on the spot 😂 I do say the phrase in the video in relation to how it's not an accurate reflection of ordinary group dynamics because the situation is so intense and designed to cause fractured or "broken" dynamics
I think you can have between 2-5 traitors at anyone time in the game tho 3 is the standard starting number
I did not know that! Has 5 traitors happened in other versions of the show?
@@mylittlethoughttree I haven't seen 5 but the Australian version had 4 traitors at one point
i feel like the fact they always think in the show that there could be four even at once is a good indication that this may be true? we never really know tho 😂
@@mylittlethoughttree the currently airing US show had 4 traitors just now (one of them got banished this week) but I've seen 4 max in other seasons (new zealand I think) I'm not aware of 5 at a single point
@mylittlethoughttree I was about to say UK season 2 had 4 traitors, so the first point isn't necessarily accurate. There's no actual defined limit, therefore it was a reasonable assumption that both of them could have been traitors. Plus from a TV perspective it would be a 🎉plot twist🎉
If you know who the traitors are, would it be best not to banish them at all? Then you can just banish them at the end. I didn’t like how that there has to be a minimum of 2 traitors at a time as to me it gives them an unfair advantage. But it’s a game show I guess so need to string it out for as long as possible
Im confused by the final epsiode as a faitful you are best just voting as many people out as possible until theres only two of you, as you wont know if youve got a traitor or not. Thats what id do and then id split it with whoever i want afterwards if they arent a traitor
Yeah I agree, it makes sense for a faithful to do that, but that made the final quite miserable as Alexander and Francesca were banished. If Frankie was a traitor, they could have both just said they were faithful and it would be a better game strategy. I think the producers need a rethink of their final and endgame.
good video
The gameshow itself is not broken, it's the players fault for acting/reacting the way they are.
A lot of the time their vote out people they can’t relate to which is poor strategy
There can be more than 3 traitors
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I think you also gravely misunderstand the death match episode. My understanding is that if one (or two or three) of the traitors willingly put themselves in the game, the game will carry on as normal until there is only one faithful remaining. If there are other traitors also in the game with that last faithful, they will simply reveal their indentity and reveal that that remaining faithful will be murdered. I think it is by definition that traitors cannot be murdered. Obviously that would make no sense because the game decides who the traitors murder and obviously theyre not gonna film the traitors revealing themselves to another traitor that they are going to kill them. I dont think traitors can get murdered.
Its true that the show doesnt explicitly state this is the case, but it is also true that it is your assumption to believe that a traitor that puts themselves in this game is risking getting murdered themselves (which doesnt really make sense anyway especially with the way its set up that the murdered person gets murdered face to face by the traitors).
Of course it's broken...it is about lying and being selfish after all
Best show on TV
Now you know why a true democracy is the worst.
how does this not get copyrighted?
Generally, if you edit a video so there's no uncut section of footage longer than 8 seconds, the automated system may not pick it up
So people are discriminatory for banishing Dan? He was literally being an asshole. It’s not an excuse that he’s autistic. I would play the game very similar to Dan, completely selfishly, but I wouldn’t advertise that to the other players and I certainly wouldn’t then call them bigoted for calling me out for being a dickhead. Mental health is not an excuse for bad behaviour.
It's not discrimination or bigotry, but it's a point about how easily differences can still be misunderstood when under enough pressure and group environment. I don't think he was being a dickhead at all, though. He played the game they were supposed to play, kept his choice a secret like almost everybody else did, then when an argument occurred he confessed to it and was honest about the fact he really wanted a shield. He didn't express it with much tact but that's certainly not being an asshole and certainly not bad behaviour by the remit of the game
I had to stop watching this after about 5 ish minutes cause your perspective on the game of Traitors is so simplistic and misguided
The thing is, I agree with all the points you make, some of them even pointed out in this video or my others. I did however mistake the death match and the maximum amount of traitors, however I don't think that discredits either point. It does show I rushed a bit too quick to get this out, though and made dumb errors
@@mylittlethoughttree No these two points about your lack of understanding about basic information about the game are only the minor reasons why your perspectives and conclusions about the psychology of the contestants are misguided.
I could re-explain why exactly your thoughts are misguided even in the first five minutes but Ill just copy and paste this previous comment I made:
"I think your analysis of people making assumptions about the two contestants chances of being traitors is very unaware of the fact that this is a tv show. This isnt real life, whether or not the two new contestants are traitors are not at all decided by real life phenomenon, its decided by tv producers trying to make an exciting tv show. Its not at all strange that people may make assumptions that the producers may want to introduce a traitor into the game is a new context for entertainment purposes.
I think you also gravely misunderstand Traitors as a game too and all the different strategic interpretations you could have on how best to win the game. You have to realise that as a faithful in the game, winning the game is not actually about finding the traitors. Intentionally confusing other contestants, getting faithful competitors banished, coming across as irrational or having faulty logic, etc. is likely something that is beneficial to your chances of winning the game. You have to realise that as a faithful, you have to outlast other faithfuls- which may mean causing other faithfuls to get murdered or banished, survive murder decisions that the traitors make AND get rid of the traitors IF you are not recruited at some point before the final 2 contestants. And if you are recruited to make sure the other traitors and/or faithfuls dont banish you.
Your simplistic understanding of the game makes you analyse the psychology of the contestants incorrectly."
lady this is an arbys. this show is not meant to be deep just for entertainment
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaa