More C64/C128 Video Output Options!
Вставка
- Опубліковано 7 лип 2024
- I'm taking a look at three video output options for the Commodore 64 and 128. An RF modulator replacement, an A/V adapter board and a RGBi to VGA adapter for the C128. // Kindly sponsored by PCBWay - Get your first PCBs free - PCBs at PCBWay www.pcbway.com/
LINKS:
My video about making a C64 S-video cable: • Making a Commodore C64...
My video about the C64 component mod: • C64 Component Video Mo...
My video about the ClearVideo64: • ClearVideo64 - New Str...
The RFOUT! board is available from Edu's store here: www.arananet.net/pedidos/prod...
Sven's C64 A/V-adapter GitHub is here: github.com/svenpetersen1965/C...
Assembled A/V-adapters are available from commodore4ever: (Link had to be removed because it was redirecting to a spam site, sorry!)
KutilDomaci on Twitter: / kutildomaci
The C128 RGBi to RGB/VGA adapter is available from Edu here: www.arananet.net/pedidos/prod...
Adrian Black's video about the C64 RF modulators: • C64 video output: Is t...
Adrian's simple RF modulator bypass mod: • Improve your C64's vid...
List of modern monitors compatible with 15kHz signals: 15khz.wikidot.com
The OSSC upscaler is available from VGP: videogameperfection.com/produ...
TIMESTAMPS:
0:00 Introduction
2:03 RF OUT! C64 modulator replacement board
12:52 C64 A/V-adapter board
16:10 C128 to RGB adapter
22:39 Thank you and good night
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Music by Focus 10 / user-993847645
EQUIPMENT AND TOOLS I USE: kit.co/janbeta *
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Thanks for watching!
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#JanBeta #Commodore64 #Commodore128 #AV #PCBWay - Наука та технологія
![[NEW] Crystal Clear HDMI For The Commodore 64 In 60 Seconds](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/SBgo8oGFung/mqdefault.jpg)
So sorry to hear about the job situation Jan!
Thanks Adrian! For now, the YT/donations/sponsor money keeps me afloat fortunately. I guess there's a lot of people that are worse off at the moment.
Thanks for this! I just ordered the A/V modulator!
Nice! Always glad to help. :)
Thanks for the great review Jan! I really appreciate it!
Thanks for making these handy boards. :)
Fun with Commodore computers. It never ends :-) My very best wishes to you for your new venture. Cheers.
Thanks Pauline! More fun with Commodores to come still. ;)
This is an excellent video! I hope things are going better for you this year. Take care and stay safe.
Thanks for the video. I have a C128 that I have never used in the 80 column mode but I might give that a try soon with one of those little adapters.
Never used the 80-column mode much before myself (except for testing it in monochrome), the little adapter is a nice solution. :)
Same here in southamerica many of us without job, f'n virus! Great video and +1 for pointing out Adrian's Black videos about C64 modding
Good Video, but still a pity hearing from you, that you've lost your job due to Corona... :( Wish you luck finding a new one
Thanks Peter! I guess I'm better off than many others at the moment. At least I have the YT money to keep me afloat.
Thank you, just got the notification! 😊
Very good video again Jan. Thanks!
Thanks Tommy! :)
Wenn ich diese Videos sehe vermisse ich die Jahre mit meinem C64 in den 80ern und dass ich ihn mit Laufwerk, 2 Competition Pro und 150 doppelseitig beschriebenen Disketten verkauft habe. Wir haben damals alles kopiert, was es gab, da ein Bekannter der Chef der Reinigungsfirma eines großen Kaufhauses in München war und jemanden in der Elektroabteilung kannte 😀 Habe Dir ein Like und ein Abo gegeben 👍
Vielen Dank! :D Sah bei mir damals ganz ähnlich aus. ;)
Sad to hear about your job, i learned so mutch from your videos however so please keep the good work going.
Bill Herd (the lead designer of the Commodore 128) has mentioned he was essentially tricked into using that particular chip for the 80 column display. He was told it had a certain set of features that it does not, in fact, have. One of them is he was told it would throw an interrupt when ready for more data to transfer to the private screen memory of the chip, but it actually sets a flag in a register that you then have to keep poling for. (He and his team likened this to having to pick up the receiver on your phone to see if you've got a call instead of listening for the ringer. In front of the designer of the chip. By doing it every time the guy was nearby.)
Yes, I love listening to Bil's talks on YT. Many myths and stories around the design of the machine. Quite the adventure and an amazing (yet slightly strange) outcome. :)
OMG it's got a little Giana on it!!! That is awesome
Yes! Kind of Edu's trade mark symbol. ;)
Sorry to hear you lost your job, but hopefully you'll have a lot more fun making more videos for us to enjoy! And I don't need to wish you luck, you're a smart dude, I've seen you make heaps of stuff work on here, so you can totally make this full-time UA-cam thing work too!
Thanks! I hope you are right and it's going to work out. I'm quite fortunate to have the YT money to keep me afloat at the moment. I guess there's many people much worse off currently...
I have a 1084 from Amiga that one brings the 128er cables, and both modes can be viewed and switched between with the button in the from of the 1084.
Jan, I currently don't own a Commodore, but I watch every one of your videos! And I have become a Patreon supporter. I encourage EVERYONE who subscribes and finds your videos worthwhile to take THIS point in time to say thanks, and "future proof" your continuing UA-cam success. I challenge everyone to become at least a $1 supporter. That's so little from each individual to say a big THANK YOU, keep going! to Jan, and will help ensure Jan can continue to give us such great information and happiness.
Thanks so much! :D
Vielen Dank, fuer ein cooles, neues Vid (ja, ich weiss, ist mittlerweile 2Jahre alt. Gilt generell.)
Ich wuerde gerne Anmerkungen machen.
1. Mein Lehrer sagte mir staendig: 'Fasse Dich kurz!', weil ich abschweifend war.
2. Mit Respekt: Du wiederholst Dich gerne 2-3-4-5mal. :) Wir haben es beim ersten Mal verstanden. Weiter! ;D
3. Sooo geile Themen, rund um unsere geliebten RetroComputer. Danke!!
4. Last and least: Weitermachen! Oefter, mehr! ;)
Liebe Gruesse, Flip.
Hi Jan, the solution is just 2 M2 countersunk bolts away ;) 4mm long ones, I often did the same with serial dongles and other adapters back in the day. Also I think the correct way to convert cga and c128 80 column video to rgb involves a bit logic to fix the levels for dark yellow which should really be an bown like on cga monitors (confirm with the 1048 amiga/c128 monitor for instance.
Yes, thought about that, too, but I didn't have matching screws. I think the adapter doesn't reproduce the brown, as it's just a very simple circuit. More trickery needed for CGA brown as far as I know indeed.
At 24:50 This signal is perfect for direct connexion to SCART in RGB. No need for an upscaler, any european TV set will do the trick
Yes, that's true. Should work on most SCART TVs without problems.
👑
Good luck with the full time youtubing :)
Thank you! I hope it's going to work out. :)
Hi Jan I hope you have a good day!
Hi Jose, I'm doing great, thanks! Hope you are good, too.
Would love a vid where you add scart to a 1084 SP where scart was blanked out!
Would be interesting to get some of the modern solutions for the Commodore 64
WIIModem is one such solution. There are other UA-cam videos on it.
Hello Ian. I have two questions. About the araranet replacement, on the main website is out of stock, do you know any other place where to find this (or similar) mods? Once this mod is installed would it be possible to use the c64 in a dual screen (mirrored) setup? Thanks for answering!
Very neat board for the video, now I must ask why it's not offered as a single board with a break away section for the shorter board?
Would be nice if the old RF modulator could be re-used to add composite / audio input to televisions that don’t have it, like the Philips Discoverer
sad about the job.. but your videos are so entertaining and informative sure it will be a good move!
Thanks Rob! It's quite the privilege to be able to do this and earn enough money to pay the bills. I hope I won't disappoint. :)
Man why are they gettin' rid of old format on TV's and monitors, quite a pain if you own old consoles and don't still own a CRT TV, good to see that there options out there for the older computers now though and I think you make me want to just cave and get an OSSC now to sort out my retro console connection issues. Sorry I've not been around much myself, but I continue to support you anyway, sad that you had to lose your job to this situation, but you do good so keep it up Jan!
Also Jan Beta was here! Disco! WOOOOOOOO.
Haha, thanks. I can really recommend the OSSC. I didn't regret buying it at all even though it's quite expensive. Spared me a lot of headaches I think.
@@JanBeta no input lag is a great benefit but I do still have one major concern and that is use the OSSC with older consoles and a new tv, I read that I would also need other sorts of cables much like the flylink and maybe scart connections as well for actual good picture quality with older consoles, which would mean some modding as well I think. So in that sense is why I hesitate to buy it. Have you tried that with older consoles as well?
my c128 first outputs black and white bars with sometimes question marks
and then black screens, without any messages
The RGBi -> VGA adapter will only help for c128 80 col mode. If you start a c64 game on the c128, it won't display anything right?
Yes, exactly, the C128 has separate output connectors for the 40-column and 80-column modes.
Where can we purchase the Sven's C64 A/V-adapter? That will work well in the living room with long RCA cables to the large screen TV!
I added a link to the description now. They are sometimes available from eBay, too. Plus, they are frequently offered by people on the C64 forums.
I'd love to see a four monitor hack for the Commodore 128, Years ago I spoke with Bil about it at VCF East he told me they used to test the 128 with dual monitors before shipping them, He said running three monitors in Monochrome mode from the RGBI port should work. with that said it's a hardware hack that should work with any VGA and most types of color video adapters.
That C128 RGBi2VGA connector is interesting. It's the cheapest option I've seen. Any comments on how it compares to other converters out there? Seems to produce a great picture!
It is only a very basic adapter and you need a suitable monitor still. Some of the other solutions output more universal signals (scan doubled, so they can be used on more monitors).
Does that C128 RGBi to RGB/VGA adapter produce the correct colours? Seeing you demonstrate it reminds me of a discussion I saw online that some adapters from RGBi get converted to an incorrect palette, but now I can't find that discussion again. :)
I think it can't produce brown for example, as it's only a simple circuit. CGA colors are really strange. I have to read up on that again, I don't remember exactly what the problem was but it's non-trivial to make a proper adapter I think.
@@JanBeta Okay, thanks, I'll see if I can find some info on it. Probably doesn't matter if you just want to do text-mode stuff and want an easy way to get a display, but if you want to run that C128-specific demo or the various art packages etc for the C128 then it would be a bigger deal.
Is there any way to get video out for two or three displays from a C64?
I wonder if any of those MSTAR-based VGA monitor kits will support legacy VGA modes?
I don't know. If they support 15kHz signals, they are probably going to work.
Commodore4ever(dot)net sells fully assembled S-Video/composite adapters. I have two of them and they are great. I love Edu's adapter! I need to order one of those and test it with my 15 Khz monitors! Nice!
Ah, good to know about commodore4ever, didn't see that. I added a link to the description! :)
Sad to hear that you lost your job due to COVID-19 :( Can you tell me where you work before ? I'm curious becouse you are very skilled (for me) in electronics. I admire that and very like your videos!
Regarding the issue with the DB-9 connector screws getting in the way of connecting the board to the C128, for a temporary measure you could use small cable ties to keep the metal shield on, the thickness of the cable ties themselves shouldn't stop a good electrical connection from concurring
Yes, I though about that, too. Maybe I'll try thin wires, too, to help with conductivity a bit more.
Actually it is DE-9 not DB-9. Look for the D-subminiature article on Wikipedia for a diagram.
Great video! I wish you well on your new endeavour. I still have my C64 which I bought in London in 1983 and it works. (after I built myself a new psu having zapped the original!) Last time I used it I connected it to a 1990s Sony TV with just an RF lead and the picture was ok but not great. I have a spare 2001 vintage Eizo LCD monitor with just VGA and DVI inputs. Is there any way to use that with the C64, what would I need?
You need an upscaler that will take S-video and output VGA or DVI. (VGA is probably going to work more easily, as that 'standard' is pretty loose. You probably want to use the S-video adjustment of the available C64 video signals because it generally gives the cleanest image available from a stock C64.) An upscaler should take care of both the timing differences and the resolution differences. If you search for "upscaler S-Video VGA" you should find a number of options.
Thanks! I use the RetroTink2X for connecting HDMI/DVI monitors to the C64. Can recommend it. The cheaper options unfortunately almost always introduce lag and some unwanted smoothing so they are not as good.
You guys didn't have the 128DCR in Europe, did you? I've been trying to figure out what the best contraption is for it, to replace the RF modulator and sharpen up the video and lessen the jail bars.
Oh, we do, I just don't have one here. The RF-modulator should be the same as in the short board C64s, so the RFOUT board should work fine. There's also a LumaFix128 version you could try. I heard people had very mixed results with that though.
@@JanBeta Ahhhh ok, so the pinout where the RF modulator connects to the 128DCR board is the same as the short-board 64? I'd asked Adrian about doing his mod on the 128DCR after he did his video, but he said the modulator in the 128DCR is different. But if the pinout is the same, well.....
So sorry you lost your job. Difficult times. I’m sure you can make a living out of it, your content is always great quality.
Thanks Stephen! I’ll try my best and see it as a chance. :)
Jan I'm sorry to hear about your job loss but as I'm an avid viewer of your channel I think it's a great and positive thing that you're moving to producing UA-cam content full-time.
Thanks! I hope it's going to work out!
I hope you will have another & more interesting new Job soon - bloody corona ;-( // cross fingers for you //
Thanks Fabian! For now fortunately the YT money keeps me afloat.
A lot of options to display the 128's output on modern monitors do NOT display the correct colors. I would love to see a comparison of the ouput (like color boars) from that device vs. connecting your 128 to a Commodore monitor.
This is not going to display brown for example, it's just a very basic circuit. I think on a RGBi monitor it would have more colors actually.
Hi Jan,
Do you know if there similar mods available for C16 / Plus 4 computers? I have a C16 with 64kb and would love to use an RGB connection to my TV.
I don't know of an RGB solution for the C16 unfortunately. It just outputs luma/chroma and composite. The A/V-board should also work on the C16 though, not sure about replacing the RF-modulator though.
Jan Beta Thanks for replying man. I’ll take a look at the AV breakout. Cheers.
Nice to see a video-adapter (the rgbi-vga) that isn't fpga based and costs 100€+.
It's very basic though but it does the trick. The FPGA based things output more universal signals I guess.
This is probably a dumb question but I don't know enough about this kind of stuff to know if differences between region models would be a concern or not. Would that RGBi to RGB/VGA adapter work with an American C128?
There's no reason I can think of why it wouldn't work. The signal will be the same, except for 60Hz instead of the PAL 50Hz. :)
@@JanBeta Hmmm, well it's currently sold out and I'm actually not sure I have a monitor that's able to take the signal. Might have to stick to that little composite box. Thanks for the video, had no idea these kinds of things even existed. Hope I can get this old C128 working.
Sorry to hear about you losing your job man. Feel free to allow ads on your vids, I'm sure we won't mind if it's helping you out 👍🏻
Thanks! I have skippable pre-roll ads activated for a while now. I think that’s a good compromise.
Every time i watch your videos, my creditcard gets deeper and deeper into debt...
Sorry! :D
FIRST!! Whoop! I am watching this wearing my Jan Beta t-shirt :) LOL.
There is a Jan Beta t-shirt?
Yay! :D
Yes, there are several shirts: teespring.com/stores/janbeta
Jup, ordered mine about a week ago and got it yesterday. It’s the one with the NASA logo and the words jan BETA on it :).
@Okurka That is why I got it of course ;)
Verbessert das Board von Edu Arana auch die S-Video Qualität an CRT Monitoren und TVs? Man sieht in den meisten Videos nur das Ergebnis an TFT oder LCD Geräten?
Ja, das Bild wird definitiv etwas "cleaner". Allerdings hängt das Ergebnis stark vom vorher verbauten RF-Modulator ab. Bei neueren Versionen (ca. ab den 250425 Boards) sind die Unterschiede nur sehr gering bis nicht wahrnehmbar.
@@JanBeta Habe heute das Board in der schwarzen, anscheinend neueren Version, in ein Assy 250425er eingebaut. Der Unterschied ist deutlich zu sehen. Das Bild ist über den DIN Anschluss schärfer und der Kontrast ist höher an einem CRT TV. Nachteil ist, dass jetzt die vertikalen Streifen wesentlich deutlicher zu sehen sind. Aber naja... man kann nicht alles haben. 😉 Die neue Version vom RF Out! hat jetzt auch Lötpunkte für SVideo auf der Platine. Vielleicht erhöht das nochmal die Qualität, wenn man das Signal direkt von den Punkten abgreift?
Not sure if Jan was joking, but I believe that's "external power" and not "extra power." But I like "extra power!" ;-)
Oh, I probably misspoke there. Extra power is always good to have I guess... :D
Sorry for the job loosing bit, mein Bruder. Hope it will sort out for you somehow.
Thanks Mike. For the moment, the YT money and donations keep me afloat at least. :)
@@JanBeta Das ist Gut ;)
Can you please do a video about why the RESTORE key (as in Run Stop / RESTORE) needs to be “smashed” to activate it, why Commodore decided to make it this way and HOW????
I found this video fascinating, thank you.
Oh, interesting topic indeed. Might do that actually. :)
Jan Beta sweet, Thank you!
I am George from Australia. My username is what I mumble when I shake my head at some of the crap I see on UA-cam.
Do the easy expensive way. Have hocked my C64’s with the Turbo Chameleon 64 V1. It’s razor sharp with VGA. Hear that the new V2 version has ghosting. Have a lot of stripes with the C64 Reloaded MK2 with Composiet or S-Video on a modern TV.
My best C64 is the C64C 250466 which have the best VIC-II chip. And is razor sharp on a TV with Composiet. Also the C64 250425 RevA have also a great VIC-II chip.
Use now the C64 Reloaded MK1 which is much better and nicer than the MK2 version. The only downside it must have heatsinks.
2 years ago i had the Commodore 1702 monitor and that give on every C64 great picture. Now i use the BenQ BL702A VGA monitor. Have a second BenQ BL702A for the AMIGA 500/1200’s. Which have the Indivision ECS V1/V2 and the Indivision AGA MK2CR/MK3. Like the Indivision AGA MK3 and it’s perfect on the AMIGA 1200.
For me the VGA is the best option for the C64/A500/A1200.
The "jailbars" are a "feature" of the VIC-II actually. So you will always get them with original chips. The newer versions 85xx have more jailbars than the 65xx incarnations, though. The Chameleon is a nice workaround obviously. I think the Ultimate 64 has no bars, too. :)
try epoxy glue to keep the male DB9 housing together?
Yes, thought about that, too. Edu actually changed the design now and uses connectors that fit, after I talked to him. The one I show in the video was an early test unit. :)
You should consider see if bitchute is also worth it as another backup channel. It works well enough just not very good on mobile, but the category system there is wonderful.
Oh, haven't looked at that yet. Might check it out.
RFout! is out of stock. I know Jan that this is not youwho sells them but there is no way to contact them. Do you happen to know them to ask when in stock?? Thank you sir.
Never mind I contacted Edu by messenger! Thanks
128 group wants to know if yellow has a brown color. The difference between RGBA and RGBI a CGA family.
Oh, I don't think the brown is implemented. The circuitry is very basic. Reproducing the brown requires more trickery.
iirc the input for the sid is used by the c64 mouse.
Sorry to hear you lost your job, that really sucks. Plus side for us is hopefully more great content for us :) Want to help support channel, which membership give you the most money after they take their cut?
Thanks! I think Patreon has better rates for me, but they take some fees from the people donating. On the other hand, UA-cam takes 30% and I get the rest. I don't think they are charging you anything but I'm quite new to channel memberships so not absolutely sure about that.
Hey Jan, first, condolences for your job loss. A smart guy like you will soon pick up another. Hopefully you can earn a bit more from fixing peoples stuff. Now a quick question; How does the new composite and audio connection compare, picturewise, to the luma/chroma connection of a Commodore monitor? Better? Worse? As good?
PCB WAAAAAAAY!
15:55 watch out that red floppy so close to big speaker! It could erase the contents, and there's no abundance of floppies these days
It's a broken floppy disk, I just keep it for decoration. But well spotted!
Always wanted a C-64.. alas I never got one.. After all this c19 shit passes on I may look at getting one..
Yes, do it! :)
Sorry to hear you lost your job due to Corona.
Thanks! I'm quite fortunate compared to many others at the moment I guess. At least I have the YT/donation money to keep me afloat.
Hey Jan. Tut mir leid zu hören das du dein Job verloren hast. Ich würde mich aber nicht nur auf youtube channel verlassen sondern allenfalls noch ein Teilpensum sobald die Wirtschaft sich wieder erholt hat. Auf jeden Fall alles gute für die Zukunft. 😀
Danke Marc! Ich komme gerade klar, werde mich aber auf jeden Fall umsehen und meine Optionen checken. :)
Epillepsy warning at 22:00!!!
That's true, didn't think of that...
cga to vga out of stock
Schade, das es keinen deutschen Untertitel gibt..
Das ist leider so zeitaufwändig, dass ich es bei diesen ungescripteten Videos nicht hinbekomme. Tut mir leid, ich hoffe es lässt sich trotzdem halbwegs verstehen!
He only Likes, Luv, and respond to Patreons, Screen capturing here to see if he deleted my comment. and if his next video will Luv , Like and Respond to all vids, Plus Timing his next upload! I can't believe I was wrong because of this guy.
If I deleted one of your comments it was most likely offensive in some way. I usually don’t delete or block at all. And I’m not only responding to supporters, I just don’t manage to answer all comments at the moment.
@@JanBeta I never curse. Just Nat bitches about every thing, She is more into 'My Mechanics' Wife videos and she's trying to convince me that the Earth is flat, It is kinda what I am working with here. Delete this thread Please, I dont want followers.
Your link for the commodore4ever page is incorrect and brings you to a scam-virus page, i hope this is not done on purpose
Oh, no, that wasn’t on purpose of course. Thanks for pointing it out, removed the link now. I guess the domain is no longer there. The link worked fine when I released the video (quite a while ago). Thanks again, hope you didn’t run into any trouble!
**jan B** your lost job, what kind of thing was it? Here in UK many companies get Government support to pay laid off staff at least 60% of their wages. Also why a jumper and not a cardigan?