The Trains that Killed an Airline - Italian HSR
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- Опубліковано 14 тра 2024
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I have flown a lot, which is a massive understatement. But airports and flying can be a real pain, especially for short-haul flights. In my experience, high-speed rail provides a much better traveller experience than flying, and the growth of high-speed rail in Italy shows that when high-speed rail is done right, it can easily outcompete short-haul flights.
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Thumbnail photo by Daniel Case - Own work, CC BY-SA 3.0,
commons.wikimedia.org/w/index...
RMTransit
Italian High-Speed Rail Explained:
• Video
High-speed rail growth in Italy
Il mercato del Trasporto Ferroviario A/V
italospa.italotreno.it/invest...
FS ETR 232
By Jollyroger - Own work, CC BY-SA 3.0, commons.wikimedia.org/w/index...
Map of High-Speed trains in Italy
By Sinigagl - Own work, CC BY-SA 3.0, commons.wikimedia.org/w/index...
EU ponders short-haul flight ban
www.airport-technology.com/fe...
How Italy's high-speed trains helped kill Alitalia
edition.cnn.com/travel/articl...
Frecciarossa Executive Class
By Teo Pollastrini - Own work, CC BY-SA 4.0
commons.wikimedia.org/w/index...
Includes licensed stock footage from Getty Images
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Chapters
0:00 Intro
R0:07 Alitalia went bankrupt
1:06 Europe wants more trains
1:56 The train to Italy
2:48 Italian Trains 101
4:17 The experience of Italian HSR
6:04 The other Italian trains
6:53 Good trains are an easy decision
7:22 Conclusion
7:52 Patreon shout-out
8:05 Outtro
![How Bankrupt American Cities Stay Alive - Debt [ST04]](/img/n.gif)
Need more Italian trains? Check out RM Transit's video about Italian HSR: ua-cam.com/video/0dID5VceD2I/v-deo.html
What's your opinion on travel by boat? There are 2 major islands in italy, is flying better than boat in that case?
I'd really appreciate it if you could add the costs of running this rail lines and if they are state run/financed, especially considering that Italy has some serious problems with corruption.
@@unlucky46th night ferry are handy, i travelled between france and ireland by boat and it can be used to save time if your are smart with your timing.
@@wanderingthewastes6159 Italy has really stamped a lot of it out with radical transparency
I ask this because I too live in a country with rampant corruption, making it really hard for me to support these modern infrastructure projects when they would be a prime way for politicians to steal tax payer money (asking to diverge money from roads is politically out of the question).
“There’s something every country can learn from Italy” woah, as an Italian this is not only weird to hear in the first place but referred to trains it becomes almost incredible.
Tommaso first read some books of Train worldwide history on who invented the first tilting train high-speed train then you come back here and comment as much as you like it...
@@claudio6493 No, perché se proprio devo ritagliarmi tempo per informarmi su qualcosa di certo non lo farei per sto argomento completamente trascurabile e perché ho semplicemente sottolineato la mia sorpresa nel sapere cosa pensano gli stranieri del nostro servizio ferroviario, di cui tutti sappiamo la nomea. Fra l’altro da fuorisede prendo una marea di treni all’anno quindi quando c’è da difendere il servizio di Trenitalia so di che parlo. Quindi non fare il solito italiano rompi cazzo appena qualcuno parla vagamente male dell’Italia (cosa che non ho fatto).
L'autorazzismo congenito di molti Italiani è scioccante...
Questi non hanno mai fatto la Reggio C. - Taranto.
Svegliatevi voi in meridione.. Basta lamentarsi... Se avete la ferrovia ferma al secolo scorso, il problema è anche vostro....
I've lived in Japan for 14 years and never taken a domestic air flight because the rail system is so amazing and convenient.
I visited a few years ago and took a train from Tokyo to Kyoto and back, and wow. The US is so far behind in this regard, it's laughable.
@@katesweeney9101 >The US is so far behind in this regard, it's laughable.
...yeah :(
Shame about the cost of the tickets though
The railway system is spectacular no doubt & has inarguably contributed to Japan avoiding the trap of car dependancy that America & much of the industrialised world has fallen into, but there are still situations where domestic airlines are the best or really only option - e.g. between Tokyo and Sapporo in northern Hokkaido or Fukuoka & Kumamoto in southern Kyushu where you can travel by train, but the distance means the journey time & accompanying cost is not worth it. It's great that the Shinkansen is being extended to these places but until that is completed in some years from now, planes will be the only way.
I've been visiting Japan every few years over the last two decades. I've taken two domestic flights in all that time to get to and from Kyushu. For travelling Honshu, I never saw the point. For tourists, one of the best investment can be the JR pass...
Italian here: i have to say that it has never crossed my mind to take a flight from Rome to Turin, despite it being considerably shorter than the equivalent train ride. Going to the station and jumping on an equally comfortable train is way more convenient.
Italian state-run companies usually have many management issues, but Frecciarossa is definitely not one of them.
I consider it all the time, the only thing that stops me from doing it is the time wasted at the airport check-ins. But I did it a couple of times when i was travelling light. But if I have luggage and I have to choose between 6 hours on a train or 1 on a plane + 3 hrs in the airport + 30 min from the airport to the station, I'll always choose the train. Its all about time saved.
California is trying to build a HSR system but it's a complete klusterphuk.
Effettivamente se calcoli il tempo perso per i controlli di sicurezza all'aeroporto (considerando anche l'arrivare a Fiumicino) un Freccia Rossa ci mette molto meno tempo
@@dariocardaci1340 Esattamente, il tempo perso prima e dopo un viaggio in aereo non viene quasi mai considerato nel conteggio delle ore, eppure fa parte a tutti gli effetti del viaggio stesso.
Se le frecce si sono evolute così tanto bisogna ringraziare la concorrenza con Italo che ha dato una mossa ad un settore altrimenti monopolista in cui questo livello non lo avremmo raggiunto neanche tra 20 anni
Last week Frecciarossa started regular service connecting Milan to Paris in less than 6 hours.
..another milestone in train travels?
Thats awesome! I am also planning to Take the train from Vienna to Paris, that is much more than 6 hours! But I dont Care about how Long it Takes, Just dont wanna Take a plane!
@@nailil5722 lose around one hour just from Charles de Gaulle airport to... well... a Train station in Paris... (go from terminal to train station, wait for train to arrive, the journey....) - unless you are feeling really lucky and try not to get scammed by a Paris cab driver.
@@michalandrejmolnar3715 based, straight facts
@@johnsmith-cw3wo I'm French and got scammed by a taxi, so, yeah, good luck. Or take an Uber.
@@michalandrejmolnar3715 ÖBB Recently introduced a new Nightjet line from Vienne to Paris. You just board the train in the evening and arrive well rested the next morning.
FWIW: your videos are spreading. I keep seeing stroads mentioned around the web, and try to contribute my hate of them where applicable. Keep up this channel, it's fantasic.
Thanks, Max! Strong Towns is responsible for the stroad concept, but if I can be successful at popularizing the concept then that's great! More people should know this stuff.
@@NotJustBikes I guess that makes you the Alan Freed of the term "Stroad" (Alan Freed was the Cleveland radio disk jockey who popularized the term "Rock - n- Roll" in the 1950s) and Chuck Marohn the Leo Mintz of it (the man who coined the term).
@@NotJustBikes At least here in my Nextdoor (a neighborhood-based social media service) in Seattle, your videos have been shared more and more among my neighbors. Albeit, most hate you because they view you as waging war on their freedom, but at least you have a handful of us who are supporters. As part of that, we're seeing more uses of the term Stroad directly attributable to your videos making concepts from the book more accessible.
@@Ddoc080 Yes, and the more US-based dashcam videos I watch, the more I realise how many collisions are caused by the inherently poor design of stroads.
@@KyurekiHana The irony is, he's doing the exact opposite of "waging war on their freedom". If more cities were more walkable and had more travel options that weren't cars (or in this case, planes) they would actually have a lot more freedom, especially for those who don't have access to a car.
My dad is a conductor for Amtrak and if he could work on a train like this he'd be so happy
Show him the video!
They move about five times faster than Amtrak though so he'd get fewer hours... ;)
No worries about being dropped into Mobile Bay, at least.
Dammit, im now jelous
You must be lying, Amtrak only has like 6 or 7 drivers to operate their 2 trains.
I'm in Italy on vacation right now. It's hard for me to stress enough how amazing the high speed rail travel was compared to flying. We did Venice to Rome. Jumped on a water taxi that docked right in front of the terminal. Strolled right in, grabbed a coffee and pastry and a few minutes later our train pulled up. Walked onto the train, sat in our assigned seats and a few minutes later away we went. The seats had more legroom than your average domestic flight, the train is quiet and it was an easy 4 hour ride with free wifi, nice views of the countryside, snack/drink machines if you don't want to go all the way to the dining car. When we got to Rome, you can jump right off the train and right on the metro to get to close walking distance to wherever you want to go. Compare this to the debasing airline system and it really is a no brainer which you'd want to do for short haul.
Italian living in the Netherlands here: thank you for reminding me how nice transportation can be in my own country! The main problem with the Italian train system lays in regional and local level trains. In the Milan area where I'm from there are many connections that make very easy to choose public transport but especially in the south of Italy there is no public transport to connect smaller towns to bigger cities so people decide to commute by car. Oh and trains are often unreliable
I was in Milan a month ago, it was my first time in a North Italian city. I was wondering where all the scooters were you see in other Italian cities, and how the streets were so relatively calm for a major city. Then I descended into a metro station and realized everyone just takes metros. It was packed, especially for a Saturday afternoon, but still very calm and regulated. I absolutely loved it, and also the wealth of trams and buses on street level, and all highly affordable. I'll be back next year, so my wife can check out the city properly as well (if she doesn't sprain her ankle on the first night like she did this time)
Esatto! Dal mio comune in provincia di Pavia a Pavia città sono 35 min di macchina, se dovessi prendere il treno dovrei prima guidare 20 minuti fino alla cittadina più vicina (perché nella mia stazione il treno per Pavia passa solo alle 7 del mattino) e poi farmi minimo 50 minuti di treno perché fa un giro molto lungo… in Italia se non abiti almeno in una cittadina di medie dimensioni senza macchina non vai da nessuna parte!
ti dico da veneta non ho problemi a partire ogni giorno da vicenza ed andare a verona...veramente credo che sia tanto regionale: ho avuto culo, tanto, perché la mia regione insieme alla Emilia è definitivamente quella che alle volte ti fa dire "sono italiana come loro" perché qui abbiamo lavoro, buoni treni(a livello francese mettiamola così) e pensare che al sud è l'opposto fa impressione!
quindi brutto da dire ma è tanto la regione!!!
brutto da dire ma la lombardia va male in fatto di treni: mi chiedo come si possa vantarsi di treni che puzzano di olio? personalmente ormai i nostri sono completamente Jazz e Pop per non parlare del Railjet che parte da Venezia facendo la tratta Venezia-Verona, del collegamento con Munchen...la lombardia? bella solo per milano, non vorrei mai viverci perché qui ho già quel che ho bisogno.
This seems to be a common issue in much of Europe that needs to be addressed with regional electrification and a general switch to electric trains even if they're battery powered.
@@hedgehog3180 in europe we are too much in small places...for make you understand netherlands are big as italian bedroom
I always wondered in the UK how is cheaper to fly to fly from England to Scotland then just take the train.
A train is just a lump of metal that rolls along for A to B.
A plane is a giant lump of steel that can fly. Yet the plane is faster and cheaper in the UK.
Chad trains : have almost no air resistance and has as much friction as in space
Noob plane : has much larger air resistance and needs long runways
Edit : Planes have low air resistance but still long runways
Subsidies and tax breaks.
I'm not in the UK but saw a video of a new line called Lumo that takes people from london to edinburgh for really cheap. And it's all electric too.
Government subsidies
A big part of this is that jetfuel isn't taxed at all, even though something like 70-80% of what you pay for fuel for your car is tax, so there's no incentive for airlines to make this better. Another reason is that railways need infrastructure from end to end, while airlines only need an airport at either end, which is much cheaper to maintain.
Italian guy here. The section about "other trains" pretty much sums up the problems that we have with public transportation here. There are huge disparities between what's the best in the class and what's the worst. As soon as you switch from a "freccia" to a "regionale" (a regional or local train) you have to face the reality that a huge part of the country is really poorly connected, and that's the reason why a lot of locals actually still prefer to use cars instead of public transport for travelling between different cities, even if they're alone.
I'm pretty sure that isn't an uniquely Italian problem.
That's a common problem for every country, to be honest. Even the Netherlands have holes in their coverage. Sometimes I wish I had something like the RER network around Paris, just down the road...
At least in Tuscany I don't have such a problem, of course with regionals travel times can get pretty long even if you go relatively near but I can get everywhere.
Edit: Exeptions are a few towns in very hilly zones but we are talking about very small ones
In some regions regional, inter-regional and local services are already really good, I have positive expiriences in Veneto, Emilia Romagna, Lombardia and Toscana, were most trains are modern and with complete bicicle support. I hope that local administrations in all of Italy see the positives that come with investing in these infrastructure.
@@Hepad_ sure, but as you can see from the map in the video there's a huge disparity between the northern part of the country and the rest of it, even is your in big cities. For god's sake Naples is huge and that train looked like it came out of a distopian novel
I took the Italo high speed train from Florence to Rome last week. It was bizarre to travel so effortlessly and comfortably over long distance. Trains have become so casual there, that you get on just 10 minutes before it leaves.
Oh well... there is no check at all before departure, so you can get on while the doors are already closing if you want, which I may or may not have done XD
It's not a long distance though. It just seems that way because you are moving between major cities in a small country.
@@BlueToronto Italy's not that small of a country, though, and distances can get quite large because it's very long and thin. The distance between Rome and Florence isn't a lot, though.
@@kajamiletic3223 Yes, it is small.
Italy is a large country in europe but compared to the US small
but again
Italy is just one part of the EU
This exact situation happened in Spain when the high speed rail service "AVE" launched from Madrid to Barcelona, it replaced the air link that previously departed every hour from each city. Now, the 650km are covered in less than 3h hours. That means an AVERAGE SPEED of 250km/h. If you love high speed trains you should definitely check it out
The actual is a Frecciarossa 1000 rebranded Renfe.
However, Spain also has an excellent railway
I'm still dreaming the Madrid metro and public transportation.
Also, the Italians are really customer friendly. I went to Verona this summer with some friend and we decided that we also wanted to spend a day visiting Venice. So we booked tickets for a train. The thing is, we missed our train by a few minutes because of bad traffic. So we went to customer service at the station and they said "Oh just take the next one, we'll inform the people of what happened." I was so delighted. I though we had to pay for another ticket. I love how everyone was so helpful and understanding.
here in italy the ticket is not for a train but for any train that comes in a time span; the train you buy the ticket is only the suggested one, where there is a sit reserved to you, but if you miss it you can always ride the next or even the one after that if it comes fast enough
yes, as mentioned by Wither Lele, Italian train tickets usually have a validity of 4 hours, so if you miss a train you can take another one along the same line within 4 hours
@@WitherLele wow glad to know about this.
In india, it is pathetic
@@WitherLele If you buy a ticket for Frecce/Intercity/Eurocity/Italo trains you must take the train that you selected
@@eneaincremona5886 i was talking about regionali
As Italian I'm glad you had (mostly) a good experience. A friend of mine goes from Rome to Bari quite often and she told me that while hsr costs around 60 euros, Ryanair costs only 8! I find this outrageous, as much as Ryanair can be efficient (at the cost of its employees welfare) it clearly doesn't have to deal with the pollution it generates and it benefits a lot from subsidies. As you said for national and most European travels, airplains should be avoided. Unfortunately due to the unfair cost of flights (no way flights can be cheaper than train trips per capita, all factors considered), people still choose the plane over the train. I hope this situation will change soon.
Yeah, there are still a lot of subsidies and tax brakes provided to airlines. It's kinda crazy that they still don't pay tax on fuel within the EU. Of course, for that RyanAir flight you're still going to have to pay for bags, possibly web check-in, and transfers to and from the (usually remote) airports.
@@NotJustBikes correct, fortunately flying (expecially low cost) is so uncomfortable that it compensate the low price. Still, the price difference is pretty steep. Hopefully the push for greener solutions will balance this situation in the next future.
With low-cost airlines in Europe the airports can be quite far from the city centre, and they could charge extra for _any_ luggage (not oversized or overweight)
Ryanair's business model relies on subsidies to reach smaller regional airports (and the lack of jet fuel tax as NJB mentioned) Gut those subsidies and low cost airlines will vanish almost overnight.
@@FindecanorNotGmail both Rome airports are pretty far from the center, but the main one (Fiumicino) has a direct connection to the center with a fast train. From the other airport the travel back is a bit rough (I think there is a coach line, i usually have people picking me up, eheh). It's a good thing that low costs are quite uncomfortable with extra charges, but the price difference it's still too steep.
I went from Rome to Nürnberg yesterday, and part was in the Italian bullet train. Florence to Bologna is almost entirely underground. 240km/h on a straight line tunnel for almost a hundred kilometers is really quick. In Bologna the train arrives 4 levels deep underground. On the surface, Bologna station seems not fancy and rather small, but underground it's all high tech infrastructure. Very very impressive.
I live in NYC and have experienced U.S. train stations all along the East Coast. I gotta say, the train stations in Rome, Venice and Florence really impressed me when I visited many moons ago. That's mostly because they were laid out so they were very idiot-proof. You got there, you knew where to get tickets, and you could find your train so easily ALL within, like, 5 minutes! It was the most pleasant and convenient transportation surprise I had on that particular trip to Europe. The stations themselves are far superior alternatives to airports, which require a long car/train/bus trip, and then a luggage check, then a security check, then waiting. I also compare those Italian train stations to what I've experienced here in the U.S. God, knowing where to get your tickets and then finding your particular train in stations in this country is sometimes like solving a Rubix cube. I remember I almost had a breakdown on my second visit to Penn Station in NYC trying to find my train in that horrible underground labyrinth after having an awful time figuring out where to buy the right ticket from the correct ticket machine. The layout is atrocious and the signs sometimes send you around in circles. Penn Station is easily the worst train station anywhere in the world. I only made my peace with Penn Station once I had been there about 10 times--I live in NYC after all--and I figured my way around. But that should never be the case with train stations. You should know how to navigate them very easily on your first visit. Which is what happened with Italian train stations.
Who tf says “many moons”
City Beautiful: Okay, so where do you want to have our first meeting?
NotJustBikes: Italian train
Bike Quest: Umm
Bicycle Dutch: Wouldn’t it be better in like a coffee shop or a....
NotJustBikes: ITALIAN TRAIN
RM Transit and Alan Fisher will back me up. ITALIAN TRAIN!
Would love to have this in the UK. Our rail infrastructure isn't the worst in the world, but the fact that it's cheaper to fly than to get a train in many parts, shows that there's a lot to be desired.
For a foreigner UK railsystem is pretty opaque with all the fragmented operators
The main reason that flying is cheaper than rail is that it is hugely subsidized. There is literally 0% tax on jet fuel. Like, actually 0%.
Don't panic, we have HS2 on it's way, the answer to all the UKs problems.. or maybe not..
For me it is. I live in the part of the UK where no investment goes-Northern Ireland. Tiocfaidh ar lá. We have 1 train line from Belfast to Derry, and one or 2 smaller ones. The enterprise doesn’t count. In my county there’s no trains at all, and the roads are far too crowded. We have 0 motorways and a bad bus system.
I was SO surprised to see a country with double decker busses not using double decker trains! And in Manchester it smelled like the train engineering didn't change since they invented the steam train 🙈. I'm a fan of the Eurostar tho :)
In about 10 years there will be the Brenner base tunnel between Austria und Italy. In Austria we hope to get rid of a lot of Semi trucks because of this tunnel, but we are still waiting on Germany to do their part. The Italians and Austrians really work great together, but the Germans didn't do jack sh*t. They signed the Memorandum of Montreux in 1994 and a couple of contracts in the meanwhile, but they didn't even start to improve their railways heading to the tunnel. This is BER and Stuttgart 21 all over again. Kudos to the Italians for these railway Ferraris. I saw one between Milan and Turin. They are also really beautiful.
We have a similar situation in Los Angeles with Bike paths. Cause LA is a mega city: it’s actually made up of tons of individual cities each with their own mayor, council, etc.
So we have many awesome bike paths which go across one city and then abruptly stop when they hit the next city. These paths are awesome for if you work local or just want to go across town for a sandwich, but they’re horrible for people like me who work one city away :-(
Hopefully it gets fixed in the coming years.
@@SaveMoneySavethePlanet Well in Singapore town councils' boundaries follow electoral ones, which change with *every* election, so many suburbs have different parts managed by different councils, while many councils are so sprawled across multiple suburbs (often with non-residential areas e.g. industrial, downtown inbetween) that they often have multiple offices. Fortunately cycling lanes aren't managed by them but by the national authorities instead, which use a different zoning system that follows suburbs' boundaries more closely
@@lzh4950 yikes! That’s a crazy system! Cool that there is a national group which manages the bikeways though.
I would if we could get our bikeways here similarly managed. Maybe managed at a county or state level. That could be cool!
the italians and the austrians working great together........ 👀
Most of that is the fault of a single political party: the CSU, a regional party from bavaria and sister party to the nationwide electable CDU, held office in the ministry of traffic for 20+ years almost uninterrupted. They were great at channeling way too many of the highway funds towards bavaria, but the german train network shrunk significantly during these years.
I've lived in a few European countries (Italy being the one I've spent the longest time in, about 6 years). I've traveled a lot around Europe by both train and plane and I gotta say, traveling with italo and the frecciarossa by trenitalia have been some of the best traveling experiences I've had.
Being italian, i'm really happy to see some appreciation for our HSR. Sure, there's still a lot of work to do (especially in the central-southern italy) but it's definitely getting better and better over time
It really is getting better. And RM Transit's video has information out future updates that are planned as well, which is great to see.
@@NotJustBikes Watched it right after your video! The premises are really good and i'm looking forward to the Turin-Lyon, being a north-western italian!
@@Frey9600 wasn't Turin-Lyon cancelled by the French?
I didn't knew that high speed rail was this good in Italy.
Expected far worse.
Ok bro ma non dissare il Centro così paragonandoci al Sud dai
06:44 "It was strange to switch from the best (anything) to some of the worst" is a sentece that pretty much describes Italy all by itself, we have some of the top excelences in the world and than right next to them some some things to be ashamed of and so much wasted potential
Which is upsetting and annoying.
hopefully the new regional trains will start replacing the older models. in tuscany short of peak hours train it's already hard to see 90s carriages.
But that's what I really like in Italy: I'm from you northrn neigbour, Switzerland and here to be honest, almost everything works well, but everything is also absolutely average. For exemple in Switzerland everything is well designed but boring. In Italy have a huge range from the best to the absolutely worst design you've ever seen.
@@herlescraft tuscanian fellow here and I can say that the old carriages are still usable but around 60% of my trips are on more recent trains, our bigger issue is that apart from the busiest hours there's lots of delays happening
Sounds similar to Canada. For everything we get right, there's a lot we get wrong too. Like urban planning, as has been so thoroughly documented on this channel...
What I really like about the italian railways is not the high speed trains, but rather how cheap and reliable regional railways are. The difference between France and Italy is absurd and very visible once you cross the border. My trip from Marseille to Nice, two cities in the same region costed like 80 euro return
I think an important parameter is price. I'm Swedish, living in France and having travelled by train a lot in France, Italy, and also several times to Spain from France (but not within Spain), and the thing that always drove me crazy was how train options are almost always significantly more expensive than the plane option. Flying Paris-Nice you can easily find tickets at 39€, while the train will be 3-4x that price. What I found in Italy was that the trains were not just efficient, comfortable, and on-time, but also really reasonably priced, making it an obvious choice.
I'm convinced that investment in tracks and expansion is important to help shift habits of people, and I think in Europe it would be easy as people love their trains here, but getting cost dow, (by earmarking flight taxes to sub train tickets?) would also be key. As long as a family of 4 can travel to their vacation destination for 160€ on a plane and it costs 480€ on a train, it will be really hard to see that shift happen for a grand majority of people.
While on vacation in Italy we stopped at a grocery store and they had fresh squeezed orange juice, the kind that have real oranges so we grabbed a big bottle and a bottle of vodka and had screwdrivers on the train…impossible to do on an airplane.
Nice!
Also they sell them in Mexico
Fresh OJ machines (the ones that automatically press fresh oranges at the push of a button) are quite common in supermarkets here (at least in the Netherlands).
@@captainchaos3667 True, but prices are extortionate. €3 for 50 cl is not an exception. You can get one for €1 in Italy.
On some of the larger stations, trains can have up to 15 min wait time. If you calculate it right, you can pop in to the local liquor store and come back to your train just in time. We used to do it a lot while travelling from Poland to Italy by train.
"Fairly limited food menu but an extensive coffee menu"
*Italy*
Exactly.
Yeah, like with SNCF, you'd expect better from a culinary world-class power, but often, your best option is a reheated hot sandwich for the price of a lunch menu at a nice bistrot or trattoria.
Conversely, while not exactly known for their culinary tradition, DB has a quite decent food selection for acceptable prices. Little beats ČD's dining cars, though.
You better not want milk after 11am though
I was like, Yep. Italy.
Hot food services on italian HSR trains is still almost unavailable because of covid.
By the way, if you can move in 1h35 between the restaurants in the city centre of Florence and the city center of Rome, you do not feel that as a limitation.
Took the four hour Frecciarossa from Venice to Rome to catch our flight home. Walked (boated) to the train from our hotel, walked to the airport shuttle within the Rome Termini. By far my best train experience in Europe.
As a Canadian I had a good time on the trains in Italy, they were going so fast!
It’s amazing how much the Italians are showing us all up with their infrastructure these days. We know who to watch!
Come on guys, let's organize a crossover episode in the Frecciarossa meeting room! 😂
Didn't they show up a short while back with a bridge collapse because of lack or repairs and corruption?
@@woutervanr bridge is back but the lack of maintenance should be a big warning against privatization
@@woutervanr that was a road bridge ;)
Quite frankly, I'm pretty impressed by the quality of Italian engineering when I visit, and the price for which they do it. But as always, sometimes engineers want to engineer, and the Genoan viaduct that collapsed was on example thereof. That the private toll company responsible for its upkeep didn't do a very good job certainly didn't help either.
But e.g. Germany has quite a few bridges that I'm not too keen on crossing either, their fiscal thriftiness has led to a huge backlog in maintenance.
@@barvdw that is the result of years of austerity I guess
Back in 2019, I took trains from Rome to Florence to Venice. They're not quite on the level of the shinkansen in Japan, but compared to Amtrak, they're in an entirely different class. They're modern, spacious, and comfortable. I think there would be a lot more train evangelists like myself in the US if our trains were anywhere near as good as Italy's.
@@neutrino78x but you have to keep in mind that you have to be at the airport a certain time before your flight departures and the distance and time you need to the airport which are not in the city center. Then you need some time until you are out of the airport and back in the city. This easily sums up to 2 hours. Whereas train stations are in the city center most of the time and it is enough to be there 10 to 15 minutes before the train departures and when you get to your destination you are out of the station in about 5 to 10 minutes. So in total I'm sure most of the time you are as fast with the train as with the airplain until about 800km/500mi distance and the train is much more comfortable, you have more space, it is always extremely quiet and calm as there are no turbulences, and you have a mobile internet connection most of the time and wifi is for free in most of the trains. So you can use time so much better, and do some, whereas you can't really work on a 1 flight, because the time in the air were it is allowed to use the table is very, very limited. There are many cities in the us which are in a distance of 500mi.
@@neutrino78x I'm italian, I can confirm that usually airports are located nowere near the city they're named like. For example, I live in Milan, where there are three airports: Linate, Malpensa and Orio al Serio. just the first one is actually in Milan, the other two (which manage the majority of low-cost flights) are at least one hour of driving far from the city (not even the city centre, just the city). Altough they're really well-connected with the city, taking a frecciarossa train for even 700 kms trips is vantageous in time and comfort. I'm saying this despite I always take the plain to go home in Apulia, in the south (approx 1000 km from Milan), but I do it just because booking in advance is way cheaper than the train
As an American, waiting hours in the airport through the stupid security and baggage checks is infinitely worse than just immediately hopping on a train and being on my way. Also, our airlines are functionally a cartel and the customer service is garbage. We need high speed rail.
On the other hand both Italo and Frecciarossa are much cheaper than Shinkansen.
@@neutrino78x The population of entire country doesn’t really matter. What matters is the amount of dense Urban areas which aren’t exactly rare on the East coast. France is denser, but it does have a lot medium/small towns instead of many big urban areas (above 0.5 million).
I went to Italy this month and was literally blown away by the rail network. I did love that travelling by train was so convenient and pleasant. We flew in from Canada and travelled with our luggage. Trains were clean, comfortable, and had tonnes of leg room (I'm 193cm/6feet 4 inches). The only one issues we noticed we're that down south there are less connections and delays were more prominent if these small issues could be ironed out I would never see the need to fly around Italy. 90+ percent of our travel was done via train. Up until we left Rome travelling via rail was consistently on time and was such a pleasant experience.
Staying in Rome in 2018 we were able to visit Venice in just one day, thanks to high-speed train. About 3-4 hours for a one-way trip. The distance covered in that time was unbelievable, especially considering the very uneven terrain. Although I wouldn't recommend anyone to repeat this (only 5 hours to see Venice is not enough, to say the least), the fact that it was possible at all is mind blowing.
I am Austrian and to be honest I am very pround that OEBB is leading the charge with the Nightjets. :) Glad you made a video about this topic, it's going to be really interesting how everything changes in the coming years!
Yep. I think he should make an video about OEBB someday
ÖBB is not great tbh, super expensive, whenever I can I take alternatives like Westbahn, and Westbahn is also cheap compared.
As a fellow Austrian, I cannot wholeheartedly recommend Nightjet right now, it should get way better once the new carriages will be in service (in 2023 I believe). And it's also often quite delayed, last time it was 2.5 hours late and some delay website said in the last 30 days the average delay of that line was over 60 minutes. At least 2+ hours delay means 50% money back :D
I personally find ÖBB's Nightjet/Railjet services pretty good.
However I find that traffic planning here in Austria is still way too car-centric. Really curious to see whether the highway projects that our transport minister cancelled this week will actually be scrapped.
@@luca_weiss Can confirm this. The service is great. The nightjet from Vienna to Zürich that I took last month even stopped in my 10000 people town. But the carriages are pretty cramped and datet. Pricewise it was cheaper than the flight, even when booking only a week in advance.
Leah and I have been talking about this a lot! A big reason why we want to live in europe is to have access to trains for our travel, thanks for sharing!
Having access to trains for vacations is so amazing. You will love it! Make sure you check out this site, that lets you see every destination you can get to from any European city without needed to change trains:
direkt.bahn.guru/?origin=8400058
@@NotJustBikes The fear of changing trains is a mystery to me. Even if you miss a connection, what's the problem? You almost always arrive only slightly later. In many cases, no rebooking or additional ticket is necessary.
@@NotJustBikes That site is seriously cool, thanks!
It's to note not all trains are equal. For example, going from Brussels to Luxemburg will take you 3h30m, but this ride is faster by car, + not having the downside from having to travel from the trainstation to your actual destination.
@@motzerich "Slightly later" - unless it's one of the German ICE lines that only has a train every two hours, and the alternatives take almost as long as waiting for the next one. I hate DB (at least for long distance travel). And I hate that fucking FDP got the ministry of transport.
I work in Asia and my home is near Naples. I never take a connection flight from Rome. One of the major convenience of the Freccia Rossa network is that it has direct train access to both Rome and Milan airports.
Frecciarossa and Frecciabianca are the best train experiences I’ve ever had. I’ve never taken a plane inside Italy because rail is so much more convenient and fast. We need this type of transport options all over the world!!
German guy here and it's shameful to admit how in the past we always kinda looked down on Italy or southern europe in general.
Nowadays you certainly show us how it's done, be it beating covid or building hsr (in very difficult mountainous terrain!).
Kudos to Italy (and also Spain) and very humble greetings from Germany.
Well said, but the firsts to be guilty of this are many Southern Europeans, who have an inferiority complex regarding Germanic nations. I do in fact respect and admire our Northern cousins under many aspects, but in no way I tolerate when people overlook Latin countries. Italy is the second industrial power in Europe after Germany for a reason.
well.."beating covid" lol, I think we just got lucky.
@@freedomordeath89 well ... maybe that was a bit too optimistic... 😅
Still your government had the balls to make some hard decisions. Unlike ours...
Germans never looked down on Italy, you two make great partners. Looking forward to a future venture with you two 😉
@@rocketpanda9192 Then you gotta pray we get a decent government next year, or we'll have some good chances of going full italexit if the far right or far left gets into power ahhaah
Did a family trip in Italy 2 years ago (would not recommend visiting during a heat wave in July) and made 4 trips from Rome to Florence, Florence to Rome, Rome to Naples, and finally Naples back to Rome. It was incredible how easy, reliable, affordable and comfortable these trains are. It blows anything we have in the US away, and that's from someone who has taken Acela several times.
Florence in July, pal? Ouch. Yeah, in Italy july and august are for the beaches, not the cities. I understand that there are school holydays and specific weeks off at work, but still....
Was there 2 years ago in october. We still had a heatwave 28-30 degrees outside. Had a hangover from good wine on our Rome day. Would not recommend.
I recently used Trenitalia's high speed trains and was extremely surprised by the quality of the experience. The only countries with better HSR systems that I have personally tried are Japan and China.
Spent a month traveling around Italy to different cities and it was wonderful being able to take the train from one city to the next! Never had to get on a plane once except for when I left Italy to go back home
When I did a study abroad in Italy in 2011, I took the HSR between Florence, Rome, and Naples. It was my first HSR and I was so impressed! I've had many drives at that length over the past decade and I've wished I had the option of a fast train instead. Maybe one day I'll get one (in Florida...)
Florida has the Brightline at least. Is it any good?
@@NotJustBikes I'm in the Tampa Bay area, so I won't get the benefits until 2028 or later 😥
@@NotJustBikes Rail transportation is intentionally made less enticing here in Florida. Car transportation is all the politician here know, and they don't want to change that.
@@bengie11355 indeed, fighting mass transit and the “War on Cars” has become a new front in the Culture War. Certainly prevalent here in Indiana
@@NotJustBikes Florida public transit will never get better short of sweeping political change. Lots of tax revenue from auto dealers in comparison to other states. Which is why the sunrail (Orlando's commuter train) sucks so hard.
Source:I'm a north orlando goon
You should talk about how low-cost high-speed rail is killing Madrid-Barcelona planes. There's now train tickets for as cheap as €8/adult. Those trains also stop in some cities n the middle. Spain is undergoing a rail liberalization where new rail operators are joining the market: on top of Renfe, which has been the only one for a long time, SNCF (which is french) has joined and ILSA (which is private) is also joining soon.
This process has only started in the Madrid-Barcelona line, but it is already showing results, as that's the only route that is now over pre-pandemic levels in terms of passengers (and with fewer trains!, which means it is now more efficient). People, especially the young, will take the train if it is affordable.
Ouigo (which is the name of SNCF's low-cost trains) has reported they have exceeded expectations and already reached 1 million passengers (with 97% occupation!). This is quite a lot, since they have only been operating since the 10th of May, and expected to hit that milestone by the end of the year.
I'm so excited about this expanding to other routes!
Spain is the perfect example of what not to do in terms of HSR.
The only profitable route is Madrid-Barcelona and everything else is just a waste of money. The tickets are overexpensive and people only take them when they get some kind of price reduction. Glad Portugal didn't fall for that trap, since they wanted to connect Madrid to Lisboa and create a route from Vigo to Oporto.
Small countries don't need HSR, and the perfect example is Switzerland which has the best rail network and no HSR whatsoever.
@@mikatu tbf, geneva zurich is ~270km
Sevilla Barcelona is around 1000km (surprisingly there's a direct train)
So there's quite a size difference.
From what I can find, the losses aren't too insane either, bearing in mind it's a long term investment, the ridership numbers are growing and it may pay off in the long run.
Is the network overbuilt, most likely, but it's not too bad of a waste compared to other large projects in that nation (like the empty airport)
@@mikatu I disagree about small countries not needing HSR. To me, small countries need HSR *within the network of bigger countries*. I live in the Netherlands, and it would be great if we had better HSR infrastructure for the ICE into Germany, so that taking the ICE becomes more competitive compared to flying or driving to a place in Germany. Saying small countries don't need HSR is like saying that small states in the US don't need it: It doesn't make sense, since they are all connected to another!
I'm spanish. The problem is that the HSR network is becoming too large, tons of money have been spent with some lines having ridiculous and stupid cost-cutting measures. And on top of that, there is very little interconexion with the regular network which is suffering from decades of neglect.
Services are scarse and bad outside the HSR lines, and even on HS ones. Only Madrid-Barcelona is a really profitable route, 90% of everything else is far from being "successful" with the current level of service and infrasteucture
@@mikatu we should have done some vital HSR links like Madrid-Barcelona and just improve the rest of the network. In contrast, we're getting into a situation where there is no reason for taking a train because either they are so few you can't, either it's high speed so absurdly expensive (with little to no "conventional" alternatives... ah yes, cars and buses!)
I remember travelling in Italy a few years back by rail and it was amazing, even back then. The worst part is I live in the UK and our rail network has fallen so far its unreal.
Dutch guy that took the train from Florence to Venice with Frecciarossa a few years ago whilst on vacation. It was a very pleasant two hour journey, and for a very friendly price. Thalys, ICE, and Eurostar can definitely learn a thing or two from that.
Some of the nice trains you described have door systems made in the factory where I work. You did not mention them. That is good. If you boarded the train without having to think about its doors or notice them in some way it means they worked as they should (indluding holding the air pressure inside the train when it goes through a tunnel at 300km/h so your ears do to pop every time).
Nice work guys 👏
@@earthling_parth Thanks!
@@mcligma6547 At IFE-CR, part of Knorr-Bremse corporation, rail devision. We make door systems for passenger rail vehicles of all kinds - metros, trams, trains of all speeds.
@@jbird4478 The first step to avoid this is just a light beam across the door that prevents the door from starting to close when someone is standing in it. But thad would not catch something like a hand sticking out. So there is also a kind of pressure sensor runnning through the entire leading edge rubber seal of the door leaf. If anything pinches the rubber in one small spot during closing the door will reverse and open again. Hand or even a finger is big enough. I would be careful about something as thin as a dog leash as that migh be thin enough to avoid detection and I have not seen a dog that can run 300kph. 😉
You can test it: push the button to close the door and then push your fist against the rubber edge hard enough to compress it. If the door system is equipped with the sensitive edge the door should quickly stop closing and open again. But also another protection might kick in - the control unit will sense the motor is eating too much current for a normal closing, assune something is blocking it and also open again.
It irritates me so much, that still, in so many cases travelling by plane is cheaper and easier than by train, when it shouldn't. Train Amsterdam-Paris or Amsterdam-Berlin is more expensive than going by air. I really, really hope that a pan-European rapid rail network will become a thing soon.
Well to be honest I kind of depends on what exactly you include in the cost. Yes, the sole ticket might often be cheaper, but that changes drastically when you take things like luggage fees, transport to and from the Airport and catering into account. Also the time savings on these trips often is legible when you think about the waiting times for check-in, security and boarding, as well as the often very far trips to large airports outside the city.
It really took me quite some time to realize how much more time and money I was actually spending while flying than it seemed to appear at first...
My favorite train ride ever was an Italo train from Milan to Florence. Such a comfortable experience and it saved me from having to get a second flight after a sleepless transatlantic flight.
Starting from December 18th, Trenitalia will operate a couple of Frecciarossa 1000 trains on the route between Milan and Paris, in just over 6 hours and with prices starting from 29 euros. Definitely a good alternative to plane!
"Nobody is going to take THESE trains instead of flying"
Let's all be sad for those helicopter-owning commuters who won't be using a short-distance train line because it's not fancy enough.
Are you referring to the President?
@@lukeshaul820 They're saying that a short-distance light rail line isn't designed to replace long-distance travel options.
Yeaaa... Planning to take that train to go Pompeii from Napoli in 2 weeks.
HELIKOPTER HELIKOPTER
Rest in peace Kobe
I was in Italy last August and we took a high speed train from Naples to Rome. I agree with pretty much everything you've pointed out in this video. It was a fantastic experience!
Also, contrary to highspeed rail in Northern Europe (particularly the Eurostar or the Thalys), Italian high speed rail is extremely low threshold. If you decide over breakfast that you'd like to take a train, you can buy a ticket for that very same day without paying some sort of premium price. You'll just be paying the regular fee. By comparison, the "reserve a ticket 3 weeks in advance or sell a kidney" pricing system of the Thalys between Amsterdam and Paris is a disgrace.
All of Europe needs Italian style high speed rail. I'm optimistic that the EU's Green Deal will provide a catalyst for this to happen.
I am not optimistic that the EU green deal will bring the change. Thalys has to make a profit at the end of the day and the airplane lobby is strong. If you are from the Netherlands, just look at the reaction of KLM and Schiphol on the proposed taxes.
I agree with this, though I think it's just a matter of lower prices overall. You can get trains Rome to Venice for as little as 20€ sometimes but a similar distance in the UK will always cost at least 3 times as much. The trains are nowhere near the level of comfort you get on Italian HST so I absolutely understand why some people prefer planes
I recently flew to Rome (from UK) and travelled via Italo HST to Florence & back. Such a good experience compared to flying domestic!
I also rode a Frecciarossa 1000 (400kph) to naples and then jumped on the graffiti express to Sorrento! I loved how dodgy that thing is, going over dramatic valleys with nothing on the sides, always with gypsies performing for money in the isles, very charming.
Imagine if High Speed Rails were the norm in North America... seems too good to be true.
The automotive manufacturers have lobbied the government so heavily to build car-centric infrastructure that we actually could have had High Speed Rail transport by now but it would threaten the auto business...
There are so many routes that could support HSR in the US and Canada. CItyNerd has been looking at potential routes recently:
ua-cam.com/channels/fgtNfWCtsLKutY-BHzIb9Q.html
They're trying to build one in California, but it's constantly being delayed.
Unfortunately cars are king in the US and Canada....
@@mariadebake5483 Yay for highway traffic jams!
@@Cognitive_player it’s also not going to be a true high speed rail because they (the politicians) forced the project to connect to a bunch small Central Valley cities instead of just quickly connecting the major cities like it should
When I visited Italy back in 2019 with my family, we used the Italian HSR to get from Venice to Florence, and from Florence to Rome. I can without out a doubt say that for the quality, time, and price, especially as a family of 5, it was the best transportation experience I have had. Having traveled a lot, I have flown quite a bit. I detest going to the airport and taking hours to check in my luggage, go through security, and wait at the terminal, only to sit in a cramped-in seat for god knows how long. Going through a train terminal is just so much less stressful. It's a shame that train services in the United States suck. From personal experience, I have found it to take just as long to get from Albany to New York City by train and it does by car. I would love to be able to take a train from Albany to one of the many cities in the northeast instead of driving or flying. Sadly, the cost and time of taking trains in the US doesn't justify it.
I hear ya. I’m lucky enough to be right by a train station in LA with my sister by the station in San Diego. So I often take the train down to visit her and the niece.
It’s such a better way to travel than dealing with the airport for a 1 hour flight or driving myself. I really hope we figure out a way to build our train infrastructure out and drive the cost down!
The US has a third world rail network.
I really don’t understand why USA can’t be more train friendly… you could reach a lot of cities by train without taking flights or being stuck in traffic😅 probably it’s my favorite transport option if I have to go away from my city but not too far, prices are affordable and it’s also relaxing. Glad to hear your positive experience, sometimes there are delays but they’re trying to fix them🙏🏼
Sitting at terminals and going through various gates and security measures is something that wasn't mentioned nearly often enough in this video.
I don't care that the flight only lasts one hour if it takes me another hour to get to the airport and I need to be there two hours earlier in order to jump through all the hoops in time. In the end it kinda evens out, only by train you're cozy the entire time and they don't make you throw away your expensive skincare because the bottle is slightly larger than what they allow.
I spent a month traveling around Italy via the trains, and the trip from Venice to Rome was the best experience I've had on a train so far.
Especially in the U.S , unfortunately politics and greed get in the way..
I have such great memories of the Circumvesuviana train. It helps if you have just got engaged to the love of your life on the pier in Salerno, took a scenic bus ride along the Amalfi coast and then boarded the train to get back from Sorrento to Naples.
I went to Italy in 2017 and used nothing but trains to go all over Italy. Book in advance if you are planning to do something like that. I went from Rome-Venice-Florence (from there to Pisa and Cinque Terre back to Florence)-Naples (from there took the train you saw in the video to Sorento and then a bus to Amalfi). Really felt good not having to worry about parking and driving in a foreign country.
Same while I was backpacking through there. So much nicer and easier.
Same! Went Rome->Florence->Venice->Milan. Don't think I ever paid more than like €24 for a ticket, never had to take a taxi to get to where I was staying (could walk in Rome and Florence). It was beautiful.
The Italian train system was great on our trip to Italy! We started in Napoli and ended in Venezia stopping in Pompeii (yes, even taking the old train described in the video. It’s not too long of a ride and not bad!), Roma, Firenze, Cinque Terre, Modena. We took both the fast trains and the slower regional trains and had a great experience! Trains over flying any day!
This trip is what turned me to your channel! I learned that there is a better system than the car centric urban sprawl I grew up in. Thank you for your videos!
What a tour you had! Great travel, I hope you had a wonderful experience!
Portuguese here, who loves Italy and visit that country every year. I must admit that one of the best things Italy has is the train system. I did in the past Venice > Florence > Rome, in out of pick hours for amazing prices like 12 euros each leg! Believe me! This year I've been to Sicily and use it from Catania > Taormina > Cefalu > Palermo > Catania in confortable trains, clean, safe and in convenient hours. Amazing alternative to flights for domestic routes. Oh I wish my country has that too ;(
I wish the Italian operators would speed up connecting their freccierossa or freccieargento lines to the Swiss border and beyond. These trains would be a nice sight to behold in Zürich or Bern train station!
Yes! Let’s do a meet up on the train! Looks like the perfect spot 👌🏼
But Covid Kill Cats!! No more travel
ua-cam.com/video/bpQFCcSI0pU/v-deo.html
@@matpk What... does that have to do with a train meet-up?
That video you made about crossing the United States with a sleeper train was very cool, however I think it would have been awesome if the trains were made this century! Or had at least bean electrified.
I still want to do it as well though.
Italy is truly the most amazing country on earth, incredible history, culture, society, architecture, food, fashion, liveliness etc..
Some regions are cleaner than Switzerland while some are dirty and look abandoned. They have the best and the worst trains, etc...
This country has so much to offer, it is absolutely fascinating!
Hey there! I'm glad you enjoyed our trains and the countryside! 🇮🇹🇮🇹 Sometimes we Italians need some foreign eyes to appreciate more what we have
Semplicemente in Italia va di moda sputare sull'Italia, non ho mai capito perché
Example, to prove the point: UK Birmingham to London last minute return (on a Sunday) 2 hours 259 pound for 4 people travelling together; Italy Torino to Rapallo, same conditions, 3.30 hours 109 pounds.
As an italian, I have to point out that FrecciaRossa, FrecciaArgento and FrecciaBianca are expensive for occasional trips for an average italian cause they are a "premium" service compared to the local old trains in Naples, for example.
For studying at University, I used to take trains every day, both locals and Frecciabiancas (seasonal ticket is convenient for a regular use) and the difference was very noticeable: I spent the time studying in Fraccias while it was too noisy and less practical in local trains.
Dimentichi i ritardi abitudinari
expensive? 100 euro Milano Napoli è costoso per te?
@@freedomordeath89 Sì, contando che pago 50 euro Napoli - Genova
@@freedomordeath89 Dipende dalle disponibilità economiche di ognuno, ma anche dalla lunghezza della tratta. Per l'Università dovevo fare una tratta regionale, quindi relativamente corta e per questo costosa. Sono treni più adatti a viaggi lunghi ma per necessità di orari e pendolarismo universitario, mi conveniva comunque avere un abbonamento sia per i regionali che per i Freccia.
@@Vane22april Boh, come fai a dire che sono costosi? Cioè sai in macchina quanto ti costa la stessa tratta? Solo in benzina? Per uno studente squattrianto tutto è costoso...anche io all'università spesso non prendevo nemmeno il biglietto perchè non avevo soldi...100 euro mi sembravano un'enormità. Ma se hai un lavoro e devi fare 500 km e hai scelta auto/treno o aereo...ilt reno conviene sotto tutti gli aspetti...
I travelled in the late 80s three years in a row with InterRail and i saw everything in Europe by train and the scenery is 10 times better, than where the highways are and lots of the times you travel next to the rivers and no car insight!
These were one of my best adventures! 🥰✌🏼
I did the Amtrak pass in the early 90's and it was incredible. Ironically the snail pace was great for seeing the world around you.
Downside was that many stations were in run down areas that were empty after dark.....
The legendary Inter rail of the 80s, beautiful changes of scenery but also the cheapest "floor" for sleeping and bouncing from one city to another, what good memories....
@@Baironecanemarrone We're talking to a pro! 😴🤪👌🏼✌🏼
I'm really happy you enjoyed a trip to my country. Talking about the old regional train, unfortunately, southern Italy (especially Naples) doesn't get the same treatment as northern Italy. The infrastructure (railways and highways) is outdated, mainly because of mafia and corruption. Here in Bologna, regional transport has recently become as good as highspeed trains.
6:14 here in northern italy, trains are better than in the south, but still, trains here have graffitis on them. Some people even say that the graffitis are part of the livery
I think that the big reasons for Alitalia’s demise is their bad network planning. They chose to compete with high speed rail on domestic routes within Italy, compete with budget airlines on a lot of inner European routes, and had a very old long haul fleet.
The bad management also sealed the fate of the airline.
A big problem for Alitalia was the uprising of the low economy fly. Trenitalia didn't do much for the airline company.
Yeah exactly they should have invested in long haul and connection flights in order to make fiumicino and malpensa European hubs. They instead tried to compete with trains and low cost airlines, very poor management.
@@fb55255 or they could have focused on long haul point to point long haul routes from smaller Italian cities like Napoli, Palermo, and Florence to New York like how Air India has very successful routes from secondary cities in India to Dubai and London. But I think that most can agree they definitely needed to focus on long haul routes.
Fun fact: Alitalia never has a profitable year since its inception in 1946, except for the only single year of 1998.
Short haul flights is a traffic nightmare - they use small planes, which despite claims by many low cost airlines to be "greener", their population exploded by nearly 2 times since last decade. Boeing 737 classic (300, 400, 500) total production is 1,988 airframes, the 737NG clocked in 7,087 airframes. This, along with the likes of A320s are clearly the source of your 40 minutes take-off queue at JFK.
Then they fly on a cruise route of about 10 minutes, before following STAR pattern that requires them to zig-zag and burn fuel for 20 minutes (e.g. Frankfurt KERAX/SPESA/ROLIS/UNOKO arrivals). The same goes for typical Tokyo Haneda arrivals, despite its strategic location (e.g. Haneda XAC-Oshima with KAIHO transition arrival, which takes you circling nearly the entire Boso Peninsula). In the last couple of years, thanks to traffic, Jakarta departure and arrivals are also being "saddled" like that, planes are being held off at lower altitude and speed restrictions for prolonged time to allow more separations, this adds about 15-20 minutes of the total journey time to Surabaya.
Air travel, despite my love for aviation, is "undignifying experience" as a famous travelogger UA-camr Paul Lucas said. You got squeezed into assembly line-like row of ever skimping seats full of folicles, pathogens, and compressed dry air. The process is very elaborate and complicated with check-ins, baggage storing, boarding, and so on, not to mention you are basically strapped in for the majority of your time.
Air travel might be cheaper ($70-$110 to fly from Haneda to Itami-Osaka, compared to $140 with reserved seats express Bullet Train), but nearly 6 billion passengers of Tokaido shinkansen (with 0 fatalities) will proably told you how refreshing the journey is. I arrived in Surabaya, 1 hour away from Jakarta, feeling tired and wanting the day to end, despite 8 hours of daylight still remaining. This because, I spent 4 hours getting prepared to get into the flight, waking up early, making sure nothing got left behind, get into the pre-booked taxi service, and took the arduous journey to the airport, fighting through the security queues, use the self-check-in kiosks, and so on. You can easily take the Tokaido shinkansen, get the best bento in the whole country from the station, arrive in Osaka, still have more than enough energy to tour the entire Universal Studio until late night, party all you like, and then board the last train back Tokyo.
On the flip side Guangzhou South station is almost as far from downtown as some airports (~17km) plus it also has airport-style security checkpoints & ID checks you've to go through
Thank you! The Frecce are definitely amongst the top trains in all Europe. You can dine menus by Michelin chefs, and even choose to travel private rooms. Def easy as a tourist to jump on and off these super fast and comfy trains and find yourself in Milan, then Florence, Rome, Naples, in a snap!
Not just Italy and not just recently. 20 years ago I lived in a small town an hour drive north of Paris, I had to go to Lyon every month for work. 25 minute drive to CDG airport railway station park car, get on train at 0700 - 2 hours nonstop to Lyon (400km), walk to the office by 0930. Day in the office 1700 train back to CDG, home by 2000, easily. Impossible to do the same day by air. Transport integration in France is generally excellent - between main centres at least, not so great if you aren’t close to main TGV lines though.
I hope to see this when High Speed 2 is built in the UK. My interest in the aviation industry is certainly prominent, but the less short-haul flights we have the better.
Agreed! The EU will still keep them for transfers, but with high-speed rail stations in airports (like Paris, Amsterdam, and Frankfurt) even those aren't really necessary.
@@dashingtherouxthesnow4017 Look at our motorway network and imagine the demolitions necessitated for that. And that's infrastructure for noisy polluting cars, not trains running on clean electricity.
:)
Not likely unfortunately, HS2 plans have been cancelled left, right and centre, meaning the best we'll likely get is a high-speed rail from Actual London to Birmingham. Given that our current PM doled out subsidies to electric cars, it's safe to say we're not getting significant government support to transport for anything except for cars.
The best the UK can do now is for local authorities to restore old, viable rail lines previously destroyed by the Beeching Cuts, which is worth its own video I wish an urbanist UA-camr would talk about.
Maybe hard to believe, but British Rail had Canadian and US trains beat hands down. HS2 could have been so much more, but as usual the south gets all the benefits (and admittedly the issues). Scotland is STILL waiting for the long promised Channel Tunnel service to Paris.
The impact on local areas isn't great up front, but the long term improvements will be colossal.
3 years ago me and my family went on vacation to Italy. We flew from Eindhoven to Milan, and stayed near Garda lake for a few days and then we took the highspeed train from Verona to Rome and stayed there for a few more days. I was amazed by how fast the train travelled the whole distance in only a little more than 3 hours. During the train ride we had WiFi and a really comfy chair. It was truly amazing, especially with such amazing views along the way.
In November 2021 I went to Italy. I was supposed to fly from Milan to Rome through Alitalia and then they went under. I ended up flying under Ita Airways as flights were still going. But I realized when I was there that it would have taken me the same amount of time to take the train to Rome than to take plane (with going through security an all that crap included). Honestly, Italy's regional train network is amazing. Went to Venice on a whim because of it.
I started watching this channel a couple weeks ago and I just simply have been blown away from the quality of these videos and all the information that I've been presented with.
Greetings from a Dutch now living in Sorrento
As an American with a slightly... romanticized view of how good the European rail network is, I was kind of shocked that the highs peed rail is still mostly internal rather than internationally integrated. The Italian trains are quite good. The French trains are quite good. Going from Rome to Naples is like being in the future, blasting along at 300 km/hr! Want to take a high speed train direct from Genoa to Marseille? Go pound sand and take thirteen connections over the course of a day. Just like being back home in the US!
Consequently, when I wanted to get from Nice, France to Bern, Switzerland, the most convenient step 1 was to ride a train 200 km in the wrong direction toward Marseille, rather than "forward" onto the Italian train network through Genoa and North into Switzerland. The next frontier is definitely a high speed rail line that goes full blast without transfers from Marseille to Nice in France, that straight to somewhere like Genoa/Turin/Milan in Italy and up to Zurich/Bern in Switzerland. Unfortunately, there are some technical problems (the current rolling stock of the high speed trains on the disconnected routes aren't all 100% compatible if you tried to link them.) But the political problems are going to be much, much bigger for the international coordination. Folks in Grenoble will be NIMBYs when you tell them that blasting tunnels to their city will help out Genoa's economy over the Italian border. Politicians treat the HSR companies as jobs programs as much as transit utilities, so if I buy a ticket in France and just incidentally roll through Italy, no Italian directly needs to get paid for my train trip. And Italian politicians don't want tos pend money building rail lines that will make French jobs, etc. So there is no "European high speed rail network," There's a series of high speed rail networks within European countries. And that's gonna be a stumbling block for replacing the flights that can go straight from X to Y without as much politics demanding you get out and swap airplanes every time you fly over a border.
That's why the EU is spending and going to spend a lot of money to better integrate rail networks. Specially safety standards like ETCS, integrated ticketing systems and everything that involves a border basically.
It was once better (TEE - trans-european express - specifically designed to solve that problem), but ultimately European railways like in the US are a product of the 19th and early 20th century and nationalism. In Germany, you don't just get the east-west divide still, but also random lines curving around formerly independent German states ... and all that just gets worse cross-borders ("we can't have the same gauge as those guys, they might use trains to invade us!"). It's only recently that these annoyances have been seen as a real hinderance that must be fixed ...
A new TEE project is sorta planned, so, who knows, it might happen; perhaps not absolutely HSL but at least decent service Europe-wide.
It's just been announced a new Frecciarossa1000 train from Milan to Paris before the end of 2021
This man’s average speed on the “300km/h train” was less than half that, 140km/hr (87mph). So not quite as fast as you might imagine.
Even if the schedules are adapted, buying cross border tickets can still be a huge hassle. For example it can be a hassle to buy an Italian train ticket when you're in Austria or Germany.
The German, Austrian, Swiss, French and Czech rail networks definitely cooperate better in that regard then the Italians.
Living in Florence currently, I can say that Trenitalia system is generally good and love the comfort of the HSR trains. Riding in business class today from Florence to Venice I saw many business people with their laptops out and either working or playing. I will say that the regional rail trains at least where I live are generally nice and modern, like their Rock and Pop rail cars for instance are bright modern comfortable for the regional rail trips.
My only complaint with the Italian rail system is the connectivity to local transit or the airport can be hit or miss.
Alitalia: It is obvious that flying is shorter than taking the train!
Trenitalia: Bruh we give our executive/first class passengers a large seat with more than plenty of legroom AND they can spin 180 degrees. You don't even do that for yours!
Alitalia: You still can't stop me!
A pandemic: *But I can*
Jokes aside those seats do look pretty cool, and you just can't get stunning views of the countryside from a plane like you would from a train.
You have to eat potatoes everyday and make six to your grandmother like Macron to pay for it all. Eddy yacht show shall lists.
To be fair Alitalia had been failing since long before the high speed lines were built
Innsbruck is so nice to live in as a Student, you can go everywhere by bike/public transportation and its quite cheap! With the next Winter Semester starting they also offer free City bikes to all students
Spain has as well a very good service of high speed trains, but they don't atract enough public because they're usually too expensive. They've recently opened a low cost service between Madrid and Barcelona, and you can get a ticket between 15 and 35€, which is definitely worthwhile over flying, but the rest of the routes are much more pricey. This has led to a weird situation with some high speed lines over-served while some regions of Spain have an awful old connection.
Still, I'd definitely recommend catching the train from Madrid to Málaga.
I don't see other routes except Madrid- Barcelona and maybe through Valencia being profitable/sustainable.
Because RENFE can't help themselves to screw things up.
This summer I took the AVE from Madrid to Barcelona and it was truly amazing. 15€ per ticket, 350km/h and modern, clean and comfortable trains. Compared to German high speed rail it is amazing!
And don't start talking about night trains, slow, old and expensive. Not at options at all
@@douweakkerman1292
What about Sevilla?
I felt the same way switching form the highspeed to the Circumvesuviana. Naples is great because it's just as rough as my rustbelt city.
Painted red, fast, with a good coffee inside, and looks pretty. I would say that this train is a solid 7 of 10 on the Italian scale.
I remember taking Italian trains thirty years ago. They were, well, unpredictably adventurous. It was the same in Spain. Oh my, how times have changed.
During a college trip to Italy, we took Trainitalia between Rome and Florence (frecciarossa - economy class if i recall). Hands-down the best travel experiences of all of our entire lives. Even better then 1st/business class on most airlines. Quiet, Clean, Comfortable, easy to navigate, and all were very friendly.
Right? It's such a civilized way to travel!
Hey there, I am from Nicaragua and wish we could have a train network!
On November 27 I had a very long trip and I traveled with a friend to a very cool waterfall (Cascada Blanca, Matagalpa) and the distance was 143km... it was painfully slow.
We took public transport and it took around 5 hours to get to our destination... why?
We have car centric designs (not all people can afford cars, that's a good thing but that's changing recently) so it makes everything slow af and inconvenient for a lot of people... with a train network it can make our lives better 😔
Not only we have car centric designs in our cities but our public transportation is also horrible if we want to go to certain locations they can only be reached with a mix of car first and then public transportation.
Your videos changed my life and I have never been a car advocate:-) I have done some risky trips to the supermarket using my legs 😎👌
Cheers,
[mama's from there! we visit sometimes so i can chip in on this!]
ma even tells me never to use said bus system, bc its usually cramped. our boats are ok, but not anything else. and omg, walking around managua [family lives there] is so nerve wracking! you basically have to run to not get run over by cars and bikes.
@@liz_violet :)) she is right, hehe
Yeh - a couple of months ago I was in Itlay and took .italo (just in Smart class) from Venice to Rome and then a few days later from Rome to Naples.
Fast, comfortable, smooth. I was really very impressed with Italys high-speed rail network and services.
It is true that changing from one of those lovely high-speed services onto the Circumvesuviana is a bit of a culture shock though 😅😅😅
Having used the high speed rail in Italy, I have to say it was absolutely fantastic.
I'm an Italian and have used those high-speed trains many times. Never once did I even think about taking a domestic flight...
Altough Trenitalia highspeed is usually not exactly cheap I have to say...
As a someone living in Italy in recent years, I also appreciate a dense system of connections of local trains, which can take you e.g. from a big city to a tourist resort with a beautiful beach and back again in the same day.
Apprezzi anche i consueti ritardi di 50 minuti?😂
@@luigifracchia6619 never experienced on the way from Florence to Pisa or Livorno/San Vincenzo ;)
@@piotrek.pieniazek me too. I traveled almost 100 times this year along that line. The biggest delay i experienced was around 5 mins.
The line is served by modern trains (hitachi rock type, ETR 421, 521 and 621), very comfortable and clean. Due to distributed traction, they are also capable of rapid acceleration, which allow them to fast recover small delays along the journey.
A big improvement over the past decades in Italy where the service gap between the HSR and regionals was really huge.
wtf? btw sono veneta...non posso lamentarmi, immagini fossi lombarda?
8 yrs ago i took a flight between Florence and Vienna. Austrian airlines planned an intermediate stop to take further passengers in Bologna. So i did the shortest hop of my life, Florence to Bologna, with a good old Fokker70. We had a "block time" (time with aircraft moving) of 39mins. 82km by air.
Well, the frecciarossa takes 37 minutes, but from station to station, city center to city center, with no shuttle to the airport, no check in, no security checks, no weather limitations, no luggage limitations, no luggage waiting on arrival. You can decide at the very last minute to jump onboard and you are ok.
Maybe it's because I'm British, but I loved the Circumvesuviana trains from Napoli to Pompeii, really cute stations on the way too.
Little know fact: Some of those trains were built for the Dutch Railways (NS) They were deemed not good enough which resulted in the Fyra debacle
Well, these trains really liked to disintegrate at speeds above 160km/h. Although it can also be said the Dutch high-speed rail project is a sort of tofu-dreg project. Concrete was starting to rot after just 10 years, the NS consistently uses train that go too slow for the design speed which means wear and tear increases a lot. And last but not least, my stepfather was a NS-Hispeed insider (NS-Hispeed was a daughter company of NS that exploited the high-speed line) and when that company went bankrupt, he saw the board of directors and higher management celebrating the bankruptcy. Afterwards, he was offered a non-disclosure agreement worth 15,000 Euros to not tell the public about this incident and, himself being corrupt as well by living off welfare while having a black market business in second-hand stuff, gladly signed the deal. However, I didn't and that's why I can tell this to anyone including you.
Apparently, this has been so controversial that even the Chinese Great Firewall is censoring anything regarding the Fyra trains. When explaining to a Chinese fellow student how censored Baidu is and how she in that way couldn't find any relevant info for a chemistry project we were working on with her, I accidentally discovered this was censored as well! 😅
@@hendrikdependrik1891 "Dutch high-speed rail project is a sort of tofu-dreg project" Not only the concrete is from a bad quality, but a part next to the A4 is unstable and slowly moving. Not only that, but the government lied about the noise in the building permits, so I wouldn't be surprized if the building permits wouldn't hold in a legal fight.
@@hendrikdependrik1891 But Covid Kill Cats!! No more travel
ua-cam.com/video/bpQFCcSI0pU/v-deo.html
Definitely not these trains. The former NS trains have been revamped by Hitachi as ETR 700 Frecciargento, and now seem to operate without many problems on Italian network, but they’re not shown here.
Almost every time I get on a train, I say (either to myself or out loud), "Ahh, now this is a civilized way to travel." As a fellow GTA-raised Canadian (and railfan), now living in the SF Bay area, the train systems in Japan and the Nordic countries were a REVELATION. When I was planning to use the bullet train in Japan, I had the same VIA-rail mentality of "there's likely, what, 6 trains per day where I want to go?" To instead be presented with something like 10 trains per _hour_ floored me. Overnight trains (or overnight ferries, as we used twice in our Nordic trip) were also an excellent way to travel as a tourist -- save on time, hotel cost, and have a much more pleasant travel experience. With that as an option, it's often better than any flight. 1000 thumbs up for well designed and maintained rail networks! :)
Australian here, on a holiday when I was little (2006) we took the Florence to Venice high speed train, it was so awesome and out of this world.
Something totally unimaginable in Australia, and not very feasible. But the fact the USA/Canada doesn't is mindboggling.
Another interesting thing is that those trains allow people to live in a city and work in other, 100s of km away. I've lived in Bologna and worked in Milan for a couple of years, it was expensive and commute was total 4 hours a day, and I am happy I dont have to do that, but it was a possibility, and many people do that, so much that there is even set up a way that you pay monthly for having a two way trip every week day.
I am so happy that in Spain we are finally establishing decent high-speed train connections. Despite having high-speed infrastructure since some years ago now, travelling trough Spain by train was only a good alternative if you were going to Madrid, and just from certain cities. They are also implementing the standard-gauge railway in many connections that use to be iberian-gauge only. Let's hope the Mediterranean corridor gets finally done, so travelling trough Spain and into Europe by train gets to be a real, comfortable option, just like in Italy.
You would still need high-speed trains to Extremadura and Galicia.
I'm in Erasmus in Spain and I took multiple times the train line Barcelona Madrid and my experience was better then Trenitalia.
@@MartinZanichelli The Madrid - Ourense AVE connection was tested a few days ago, and it is working already. While I wouldn't put my head on the block for the final date, the Extremadura line is supposed to start working next year too.
@@med6186 I don't really know much about Trenitalia, so I am just conjecturing here, I guess that might be because of Spanish high-speed train infrastructure being relatively new and relatively small.
The design of the railway system is kind of a political issue in Spain, being as it is a square country with the capital in the centre. Of course, central regions wish for all the lines to be radial, while other areas wish for peripheral lines connecting with Europe.
Again, just conjecturing, I think that might have been less of a problem in Italy, because of it's elongated shape, fewer lines were needed to connect the main cities.
That might have been a reason for Italy to develop a high-speed network earlier. Meanwhile, in Spain we were arguing about where to have our stations, what cities to connect and so on. For some years, just a few cities had high-speed train service, so, yes, it is indeed excellent service, generally speaking. But just for a few.
@@iria9755 Ah, good to know! Thanks!
I really hope our future HSR in California will be good. We desperately need a good alternative to driving on crowded highways like 99 and I-5.
While living in Florence, I used to take the high speed rail to numerous trips around the country. They were very comfortable and appealing. Returning to the states and taking the disappointing and slow trains here have been depressing.
You fly in America numb tee.